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eliteaceman
October 31st, 2009, 03:52 AM
So we had hundreds of thousands.. now its


"Thousands of years ago when they intended to come here"

Next week hes gonna say....

The ancients were here last week, we just missed them

Encoder
October 31st, 2009, 03:54 AM
I think his understanding of it may simply be misinformation by a factor of 1000.

:sheppard:

DigiFluid
October 31st, 2009, 03:55 AM
The timeline thing is really starting to bug me, to be honest. It's one thing to goof up on one or a few episodes, or have characters 'mis-speak' a couple of times, but they're doing it pretty much every single episode.

This needs fixing.

eliteaceman
October 31st, 2009, 04:01 AM
I think it's on purpose, any normal person would probably say the same things.. in the moment... some people over ephmisis things, others under emphisis.....

g.o.d
October 31st, 2009, 04:07 AM
according to Eli in Kino's webisode, Rush believe the DestinyS' stargate predates every known stargate. Which means is older than 50 millions years

DigiFluid
October 31st, 2009, 04:12 AM
Yes it does.

Which is why dates, as they've been stated so far on SGU, bother me.

Zeratul
October 31st, 2009, 04:20 AM
IMO you're over reacting, people shorten everything they can while speaking...
Saying the ship is thousands of years old is preety much the same as you'd say "Theres like a thousand people in that room" or "I'd need hundreds of hours to study for that exam". People wont rly say "hundred thousand years" whe nthey can just say "thousands" meaning its alot of them.

Brain_Child
October 31st, 2009, 04:23 AM
lol you guys. ill quote the simpsons here.


Doug: [wearing a T-shirt that says "Genius at Work"] Hi. A question for Miss Bellamy. In episode 2F09 when Itchy plays Scratchy's skeleton like a xylophone, he strikes the same rib twice in succession, yet he produces two clearly different tones. I mean, what are we to believe, that this is some sort of a magic xylophone or something? Boy, I really hope somebody got fired for that blunder.

i think perhaps you are being a little bit too finicky. when they find a time machine, and they need exact dates, then maybe this'll be important. but until then...

DigiFluid
October 31st, 2009, 04:39 AM
It's....kind of important. They keep talking about the ship malfunctioning and falling apart because it's so old, but they keep mis-stating its age. Repeatedly calling it "hundreds of thousands of years old" and even "almost a million years old" is just....wrong. And it kind of betrays the entire point of the ship problems so far.

Brain_Child
October 31st, 2009, 06:10 AM
It's....kind of important. They keep talking about the ship malfunctioning and falling apart because it's so old, but they keep mis-stating its age. Repeatedly calling it "hundreds of thousands of years old" and even "almost a million years old" is just....wrong. And it kind of betrays the entire point of the ship problems so far.

I dont think the major point of stating its age is the establish a timeline but to help explain why the ship is so busted

like seriously, i would expect the ship to have a lot of problems even if it was only a couple thousand years old. so really if the ship was anything from 2000 years old to 1 million years old, I would accept its current condition. its not like im going to say

"the ship is 132,000 years old. no way the air locks would have degraded to that state in that amount of time. it would take at least another 200 years before that started to occur"

the writers dont seem to have a problem with it so why should we?

DigiFluid
October 31st, 2009, 06:14 AM
I don't know, maybe the 15 years of show I've watched before starting this means I expect at least a little consistency?

Sonicbluemustang
October 31st, 2009, 07:17 AM
the writers dont seem to have a problem with it so why should we?

I agree I think some are to technical of the show. Lets remember that it is on the Science FICTION channel. :)

Otarush
November 1st, 2009, 07:21 AM
The Destiny is over 9000 years old lol. We know that ;)

But I think that Rush and everyone are misspeaking with the dates: I know lots of people who mix up 'millenia' and 'million years'. Precision isn't necessary except for things like archeology when we're talking about this kind of timescale.

escyos
November 1st, 2009, 12:52 PM
ive heard people say they are dead tired....there not really dead, its just a saying. even simple words can be misinterpreted like saying 'that happened AGES ago' and it was last year.

im pretty sure rush just assumed they should have been there around the end of the lantean period. and im pretty sure that british and scotish people say hundreds of thousnads when it refers to millions

Professor D.H.D. Puddlejumper
November 1st, 2009, 02:15 PM
I don't know, maybe the 15 years of show I've watched before starting this means I expect at least a little consistency?

I'm with you. As much as I like the series, every time I hear "thousands" it's like hearing fingernails on a blackboard. I just wish they'd correct it.

:)

Phenom
November 1st, 2009, 03:13 PM
It bugs me a bit too as it detracts from what I enjoy most from Stargate shows, being the history and mythology stuff. I do understand that in some instances, people are inclined to exaggerate things in order to get a point across (i.e I am dead tired....we have been here forever), but these statements about Destiny's age are coming from a guy that is supposed to be one of the foremost experts on the Ancients. It would be like an astronomer saying that there are 'heaps' of planets in the solar system or a vet saying that dogs have heaps of legs.

Its just lazy writing unless of course that at some stage in a later ep Rush has an epiphany where he re-evaluates what he has said so far....not holding my breath though.

Naonak
November 1st, 2009, 03:32 PM
I don't know, maybe the 15 years of show I've watched before starting this means I expect at least a little consistency?
From Stargate...? :p

DigiFluid
November 1st, 2009, 04:02 PM
I did say a little :p

Alder
November 1st, 2009, 04:57 PM
im pretty sure rush just assumed they should have been there around the end of the lantean period. and im pretty sure that british and scotish people say hundreds of thousnads when it refers to millions
Um...
First, Scottish people are British people.
Second, I'm pretty sure we say hundreds of thousands when we mean hundreds of thousands, and millions when we mean millions.

(There a difference between the British and American billion (http://www.askoxford.com/asktheexperts/faq/aboutwords/billion?view=uk), though, maybe that's what you were thinking of?)

escyos
November 1st, 2009, 05:16 PM
Um...
First, Scottish people are British people.
Second, I'm pretty sure we say hundreds of thousands when we mean hundreds of thousands, and millions when we mean millions.

(There a difference between the British and American billion (http://www.askoxford.com/asktheexperts/faq/aboutwords/billion?view=uk), though, maybe that's what you were thinking of?)

yea i probably am, americans always wanna have things different

rlr149
November 1st, 2009, 05:50 PM
but these statements about Destiny's age are coming from a guy that is supposed to be one of the foremost experts on the Ancients.

the asgard studied the ancient DB and admitted to not knowing as much as they'd like too, rush has had FAR less time. foremost expert doesn't mean anything relatively speaking.

Phenom
November 1st, 2009, 06:57 PM
the asgard studied the ancient DB and admitted to not knowing as much as they'd like too, rush has had FAR less time. foremost expert doesn't mean anything relatively speaking.

True, but he isn't even in the ball park. Its one thing to say it is 10 million old when it is really 50 million, but another thing to say its only 10 000 years old when it is 50 million.

Professor D.H.D. Puddlejumper
November 1st, 2009, 11:01 PM
the asgard studied the ancient DB and admitted to not knowing as much as they'd like too, rush has had FAR less time. foremost expert doesn't mean anything relatively speaking.


True, but he isn't even in the ball park. Its one thing to say it is 10 million old when it is really 50 million, but another thing to say its only 10 000 years old when it is 50 million.

Rush would surely know that Atlantis is millions of years old and that the Antarctic stargate was 50 million years old. And he knows that Destiny predates Atlantis. So. . .?

:)

DigiFluid
November 2nd, 2009, 12:02 AM
Something I hadn't even considered till just now--maybe Rush isn't an expert on the Ancients. It's pretty clear that the guy is a computer/math genius and not a historian; he was at Icarus Base to try to solve that mathematical power consumption problem.

Maybe someone'll correct him later on.

escyos
November 2nd, 2009, 01:57 AM
This is getting very annoying!

Not rush's timeline, the people who cant get over the fact that it was said. I bet in the next episode, rush will say that destiny was launched 50 million years ago and then people will complain about that, even though it gives us what you are complaining about!!!!!!!!

Seriously stop arguing over semantics, we have been told by the producers that the ship is million of years old!!! Repeat we have been told that the ship is millions of years old!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Captain Obvious
November 2nd, 2009, 02:18 AM
I don't know, maybe the 15 years of show I've watched before starting this means I expect at least a little consistency?

People keep harping on this. You realize they don't have full access to the systems of the ship, right?

I would bet cash money that once Rush and/or Eli get into the logs they will "discover" that destiny is far older than they estimated. The numbers they have been quoting have been estimates, just wait for full systems access.

Seriously, you don't need instant gratification for every tiny plot point. Just sit back and enjoy the process of discovery with the crew! Eli is my way to experience the wonder of the universe they have been crafting. Watching him ask questions I had when the show first came on gives me a smug sense of self satisfaction.

rlr149
November 2nd, 2009, 03:38 AM
This is getting very annoying!
good.


Not rush's timeline, the people who cant get over the fact that it was said. I bet in the next episode, rush will say that destiny was launched 50 million years ago and then people will complain about that, even though it gives us what you are complaining about!!!!!!!!
i wasn't complaining.

Seriously stop arguing over semantics, we have been told by the producers that the ship is million of years old!!! Repeat we have been told that the ship is millions of years old!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
what the producers have said is NOT the issue, whether rush SHOULD know or not is.

oh, and i'll argue about what the hell i like too;)

escyos
November 2nd, 2009, 04:11 AM
good.

i wasn't complaining.

what the producers have said is NOT the issue, whether rush SHOULD know or not is.

oh, and i'll argue about what the hell i like too;)

my post was in no way a personal attack on anyone, more of a group thing.

i dont see why people should bother, there are bound to be inconsistencies and errors, we have had several estimates of the age of the ship, which means they dont know how old it is...get over it.

seriously, these forums have gone downhill lately, im considering leaving

Jack_Bauer
November 2nd, 2009, 05:14 PM
my post was in no way a personal attack on anyone, more of a group thing.

i dont see why people should bother, there are bound to be inconsistencies and errors, we have had several estimates of the age of the ship, which means they dont know how old it is...get over it.

seriously, these forums have gone downhill lately, im considering leaving

A) I think we should expect more from the writers and they should limit the amount of inconsistencies. Some of them (hell most of them) have been around since day one, or in the early seasons of SG1. They are PAID to get the story straight, to immerse themselves in the Universe that THEY have created. They should not make mistakes like this. (for example the Asgard and there "30000" year history)

B) Nothing's stopping you.

DigiFluid
November 2nd, 2009, 05:21 PM
People keep harping on this. You realize they don't have full access to the systems of the ship, right?

I would bet cash money that once Rush and/or Eli get into the logs they will "discover" that destiny is far older than they estimated. The numbers they have been quoting have been estimates, just wait for full systems access.

Seriously, you don't need instant gratification for every tiny plot point. Just sit back and enjoy the process of discovery with the crew! Eli is my way to experience the wonder of the universe they have been crafting. Watching him ask questions I had when the show first came on gives me a smug sense of self satisfaction.

Holy overreaction, Batman. If you'd been hanging around the SGU boards, you might've noticed that I quite like SGU and that this is one of very few complaints I've made.

escyos
November 2nd, 2009, 05:28 PM
A) I think we should expect more from the writers and they should limit the amount of inconsistencies. Some of them (hell most of them) have been around since day one, or in the early seasons of SG1. They are PAID to get the story straight, to immerse themselves in the Universe that THEY have created. They should not make mistakes like this. (for example the Asgard and there "30000" year history)

B) Nothing's stopping you.

1) we shouldnt expect anything from teh writers, they dont owe us anything

2)they are PAID to write stories

3)i dont find anything wrong with the asgard history, then again i dont read fan fiction or pick at the tiny things

4) i'll leave when it gets worse NOT when people tell me to

Jack_Bauer
November 2nd, 2009, 05:49 PM
1) we shouldnt expect anything from teh writers, they dont owe us anything

2)they are PAID to write stories

3)i dont find anything wrong with the asgard history, then again i dont read fan fiction or pick at the tiny things

4) i'll leave when it gets worse NOT when people tell me to

1) Without us watching they would be out of a job

2) And if you suck at the job your paid to do you get... fired...

3) My issue with the Asgard History has nothing to do with fanfic (which is not canon and something I don't read)

4) I didn't tell you to leave. Don't waste people's time complaining about a discussion that you have no interest in, that hey may have interest in. Go start your own threads with your own discussion topics if you want something all to yourself.

Phenom
November 2nd, 2009, 06:55 PM
I wonder what the writers are really like. You would kind of expect them to know every detail of Stargate canon verbatim, given that they would have written most of it. Yet I would think in reality they probably don't know much more than the average fan.

jelgate
November 2nd, 2009, 07:01 PM
The writers remember less then the average fan. Its just a job to them. But many fans have a emotional attachment to it. Some have too much attachment

Jack_Bauer
November 2nd, 2009, 08:19 PM
The writers remember less then the average fan. Its just a job to them. But many fans have a emotional attachment to it. Some have too much attachment

But come on, it is life to many of them. Hell Stargate has been Brad Wrights life for the better part of 15 years now!

DigiFluid
November 2nd, 2009, 08:43 PM
Yeah but the final product is so much shorter than the process.

Think about it: you've got a whole bunch of people in a room brainstorming ideas, writers being tasked with concepts thought up by others (or the higher ups), and they spend a whole bunch of time going through what works and what doesn't before they finally end up on a solid script--which gets revised on-set when they find things don't quite work there. And then the next episode the process happens all over again--except this time, by a different writer.

It's a complicated process, and undoubtedly difficult as hell to remember what's what when you've spent weeks trying to hammer out a story. A heck of a lot harder than it is for us the fans, who only get digestible 42 minute final products.

Jack_Bauer
November 2nd, 2009, 09:08 PM
Yeah but the final product is so much shorter than the process.

Think about it: you've got a whole bunch of people in a room brainstorming ideas, writers being tasked with concepts thought up by others (or the higher ups), and they spend a whole bunch of time going through what works and what doesn't before they finally end up on a solid script--which gets revised on-set when they find things don't quite work there. And then the next episode the process happens all over again--except this time, by a different writer.

It's a complicated process, and undoubtedly difficult as hell to remember what's what when you've spent weeks trying to hammer out a story. A heck of a lot harder than it is for us the fans, who only get digestible 42 minute final products.

I understand this, but couldn't they employ the use of a show/franchise 'bible' with all the established canon and backstories. Would make stuff ups less likely to occur...

GateroomGuard
November 2nd, 2009, 09:53 PM
Personally I find that the characters just give vague 'thousands of years' or 'hundred thousands of years' to be a breath of fresh air. No one speaks in such precise terms over something that has no relavence. If I was a writer I would purposely make my characters give vauge incorrect dates because thats how people talk.

timmciglobal
November 2nd, 2009, 10:14 PM
... yea... if someone asks me when the roman walls in England were built I say "oh hundreds or tens of thousands of years ago, something like that."

It's idiotic.

I think the writers don't give a ****, the producers probably told them top down to make this "dumber" and that the explanation should be vague and include as little science as possible since it'll turn off the designed audience if you make it "geeky" versus just saying "oh it uses solar power" versus say explaining like sam or McKay would as to how the ship uses hydrogen or helium from a star.

Tim

EllieVee
November 3rd, 2009, 04:39 PM
what the producers have said is NOT the issue, whether rush SHOULD know or not is.

Maybe the producers didn't tell Rush ...

Phenom
November 4th, 2009, 02:59 PM
Personally I find that the characters just give vague 'thousands of years' or 'hundred thousands of years' to be a breath of fresh air. No one speaks in such precise terms over something that has no relavence. If I was a writer I would purposely make my characters give vauge incorrect dates because thats how people talk.

Vague is fine. Not a problem with that. If the established canon was that Destiny was say....700 000 years old, then Rush comes along and says it is tens of thousands of years old, then I have no issue with that.

However the canon age is in the vicinity of 50 million years. Thats not vague, thats just a wrong answer. Its not that we are wishing an answer so precise that a swiss watchmaker would be impressed, but just an answer within the established ball park is all I am after.

nnrd79a
November 4th, 2009, 03:28 PM
Vague is fine. Not a problem with that. If the established canon was that Destiny was say....700 000 years old, then Rush comes along and says it is tens of thousands of years old, then I have no issue with that.

However the canon age is in the vicinity of 50 million years. Thats not vague, thats just a wrong answer. Its not that we are wishing an answer so precise that a swiss watchmaker would be impressed, but just an answer within the established ball park is all I am after.

Had to create an account, so this will be my first post...

Look up Einstein's theory of Relativity.

Without getting into detail,

A ship moving through normal space at the speed of light will experience time differently relative to our experience of time. = Destiny
As one approaches the speed of light, time moves at a different rate relative to those of us not moving that fast.

Thus, the ship could have left Earth 50 million years ago, but the relative age / time passed on the ship itself could be 10's of 1000's of years.

Example: If you left Earth at the speed of light for 6 months. Stopped, and returned at the speed of light for another 6 months.
A year has passed for you. However on earth, 100 years may have passed. Time / Space / Speed are relative, not fixed.

Captain Obvious
November 4th, 2009, 09:40 PM
Had to create an account, so this will be my first post...

Look up Einstein's theory of Relativity.

Without getting into detail,

A ship moving through normal space at the speed of light will experience time differently relative to our experience of time. = Destiny
As one approaches the speed of light, time moves at a different rate relative to those of us not moving that fast.

Thus, the ship could have left Earth 50 million years ago, but the relative age / time passed on the ship itself could be 10's of 1000's of years.

Example: If you left Earth at the speed of light for 6 months. Stopped, and returned at the speed of light for another 6 months.
A year has passed for you. However on earth, 100 years may have passed. Time / Space / Speed are relative, not fixed.

By Jove I think he's got it!

by traveling at FTL speeds, the ships its self would only experience its own relative time, independent of outside influence or time. So the ship has been traveling at almost 1 million years "Destiny Time" , not " Earth time"

Savit?

DigiFluid
November 4th, 2009, 09:45 PM
Had to create an account, so this will be my first post...

Look up Einstein's theory of Relativity.

Without getting into detail,

A ship moving through normal space at the speed of light will experience time differently relative to our experience of time. = Destiny
As one approaches the speed of light, time moves at a different rate relative to those of us not moving that fast.

Thus, the ship could have left Earth 50 million years ago, but the relative age / time passed on the ship itself could be 10's of 1000's of years.

Example: If you left Earth at the speed of light for 6 months. Stopped, and returned at the speed of light for another 6 months.
A year has passed for you. However on earth, 100 years may have passed. Time / Space / Speed are relative, not fixed.

I like that a lot, but it just doesn't quite work.

You're right on most points, except that we know the ship moves faster than the speed of light--which as relativity tells us, is an impossibility.

nnrd79a
November 5th, 2009, 07:00 AM
I like that a lot, but it just doesn't quite work.

You're right on most points, except that we know the ship moves faster than the speed of light--which as relativity tells us, is an impossibility.

One of the items we are specifically told is that the ship is not using a type of propulsion that bends the rules, (Hyper Space, Worm Holes.. etc)

Destiny is traveling through normal space at incredible speeds. Thus you will need to chalk that up to:

A: Writers prerogative
B: Perhaps there is something that can travel faster speed than light. We just haven't figured it out yet.
(It wasn't that long ago that traveling faster than the speed of sound was "impossible".)

Near the speed of light, faster than the speed of light within normal space, the ship will experience time relatively.

The faster you go, the slower (relative) the time will pass on the ship.

Thus the arguments of how old the ship is can be answered.

It was built over 50 million years ago.
The ship itself may have only aged 300,000 years. (We don't know the exact speed or launch date..... yet)

Cecil Brax
November 5th, 2009, 07:47 AM
I like that a lot, but it just doesn't quite work.

You're right on most points, except that we know the ship moves faster than the speed of light--which as relativity tells us, is an impossibility.

Well, I have kind of avoided this thread cause I've debated this same topic like 3 other times in three other threads so far and I didn't want to do it again. I'll make some notes here though after some more recent replies.

Right now, what kind of drive the ship uses can only be an assumption. We know its not Hyperdrive but there are many different kinds of FTL (Faster then Light) travel. I believe someone mentioned a type drive that is similar to warp drive which involves bending space. There is also folding space, tearing space, jump drives (More of the Wing Commander kind then the BSG kind), and the list goes on and on. Who knows what they use just yet or what the energy field is that surrounds the ship when it is in FTL. Its probably similar to warp drive which would allow for the alien shuttle to break the FTL Field and fly away like it did in Air Part 3.

As for the Timeline .... If you take things 'characters' in the show say literally and as instant fact, you will always be disappointed. Too many times in too many shows what a character says at one point ends up being wrong. Humans misspeak, make mistakes, and draw conclusions without all the proper information.

The fact so many people are taking what Rush said completely literally is going to lead them to disappointment down the road. If you take him literally, when he is corrected or when he does eventually revise what he said (Maybe another character on the show will point it out and he'll go "It was a figure of speech!!" - I added the exclamation points cause that's how Rush would probably sounds. hehe) then the people who take him literally will cry foul, and come on here and make a ton more threads about how much the show sucks cause the writers got it wrong, etc etc.

Honestly, I think they did this on purpose as a tool to get people to watch longer to see if there is a correct answer given. If this was the reason, I have one thing to say to the writers ... well played sirs.

- CB

Phenom
November 5th, 2009, 03:02 PM
Had to create an account, so this will be my first post...

Look up Einstein's theory of Relativity.

Without getting into detail,

A ship moving through normal space at the speed of light will experience time differently relative to our experience of time. = Destiny
As one approaches the speed of light, time moves at a different rate relative to those of us not moving that fast.

Thus, the ship could have left Earth 50 million years ago, but the relative age / time passed on the ship itself could be 10's of 1000's of years.

Example: If you left Earth at the speed of light for 6 months. Stopped, and returned at the speed of light for another 6 months.
A year has passed for you. However on earth, 100 years may have passed. Time / Space / Speed are relative, not fixed.

No need to look it up, I already am well aware of the basics of it.

I have no idea how faster than light travel would affect the time issue given that faster than light travel is supposedly impossible.

However I still feel that the age issues on SGU thus far are either lazy writing or an as yet unfulfilled plot that will be explained in later episodes. Quoting Einstein as the reason for Rush's timeline is just a bit of luck on the writers behalf I believe.

TwiceBorn
November 5th, 2009, 03:42 PM
I thought Rush said the ship left milky way thousands of year ago at one point. Didn't he? I don't think the writers are really concerned with getting it right. They don't rely on mythology to get viewers anymore anyways.

Control_Chair
November 6th, 2009, 07:35 AM
I wonder what the writers are really like. You would kind of expect them to know every detail of Stargate canon verbatim, given that they would have written most of it. Yet I would think in reality they probably don't know much more than the average fan.


The writers remember less then the average fan. Its just a job to them. But many fans have a emotional attachment to it. Some have too much attachment

In that case they should employ us to do it for them. :D

nnrd79a
November 6th, 2009, 08:41 AM
In that case they should employ us to do it for them. :D

Exactly!