Where's It All Heading?

[Crazy Tom]

So Stargate has FTL, forcefields, inertia-less drives, artificial gravity, and a host of other exotic technologies. So what will these eventually evolve into and how will the future SG universe look?

Warning: The speculation below seems uber at first glance, but an F-16 would have seemed uber to a WW2 pilot.

So, first off, I think the Ian Banks' Culture is probably a very god approximation of what SG civilization will look like in the future. Huge fleets of mobile space habitats, that can move to avoid danger. This is a huge thing, since planets are immensely vulnerable to relativistic bombardment and totally un-defend able from pinpoint hyperspace jumps. While habitats can move to avoid both.

As weapons evolve, ships would probably become more decentralize, "fuzzy" in the sense that their more like big webs of parts connected by forcefield, that can alter shape to let weapons fire pass through.

Mind upload technology would lead to most people "plunging in" to do their work or pilot a ship per say, then returning to their bodies when it's over, or even forsaking bodies altogether for nanotech forms, immune from death, disease, and capable of living anywhere.

Forcefields have so many applications... fusion for example, you can load some dirt into a forcefield, then feed it enough energy and it will crush that dirt into diamonds.

What does everybody else want to add?

[Womble]

So Stargate has FTL, forcefields, inertia-less drives, artificial gravity, and a host of other exotic technologies. So what will these eventually evolve into and how will the future SG universe look?

Warning: The speculation below seems uber at first glance, but an F-16 would have seemed uber to a WW2 pilot.

So, first off, I think the Ian Banks' Culture is probably a very god approximation of what SG civilization will look like in the future. Huge fleets of mobile space habitats, that can move to avoid danger. This is a huge thing, since planets are immensely vulnerable to relativistic bombardment and totally un-defend able from pinpoint hyperspace jumps. While habitats can move to avoid both.

You've just described Atlantis.

As weapons evolve, ships would probably become more decentralize, "fuzzy" in the sense that their more like big webs of parts connected by forcefield, that can alter shape to let weapons fire pass through.

I'm not so sure. Against weapons which fire relativistic projectiles, or energy beams that move at or near the speed of light, you can't change shape fast enough, or precisely enough.

Mind upload technology would lead to most people "plunging in" to do their work or pilot a ship per say, then returning to their bodies when it's over, or even forsaking bodies altogether for nanotech forms, immune from death, disease, and capable of living anywhere.

Didn't the Asgard download their minds into ship computers?

What does everybody else want to add?

Robotics and genetic engineering, obviously. Once you've gotten to spacefaring habitats and to mind upload tech, the obvious next development is along the lines of Isaac Asimov's Solaria as depicted in "Foundation and Earth"- sparcely populated or even individual "estates" inhabited by VERY modified post-humans who are mind-controlling tens of thousands of robots and electronic systems each. (Asimov's Solarians actually had modified brains which collected spontaneous heat from the surrounding environment and converted it into power for their robots; when a Solarian died, his entire estate "died" with him from loss of power).

[Crazy Tom]

You've just described Atlantis.

Not quite, Atlantis spends 99% of it's time planet side, I'm talking about a city that spends 99% of it's time in space.

I'm not so sure. Against weapons which fire relativistic projectiles, or energy beams that move at or near the speed of light, you can't change shape fast enough, or precisely enough.

Point taken, but since battles would be taking pace from great distance, wouldn't that give some advance warning with FTL sensors?

Didn't the Asgard download their minds into ship computers?

Yeah, but I don't think they ever experimented with staying like that for long.

Robotics and genetic engineering, obviously. Once you've gotten to spacefaring habitats and to mind upload tech, the obvious next development is along the lines of Isaac Asimov's Solaria as depicted in "Foundation and Earth"- sparcely populated or even individual "estates" inhabited by VERY modified post-humans who are mind-controlling tens of thousands of robots and electronic systems each. (Asimov's Solarians actually had modified brains which collected spontaneous heat from the surrounding environment and converted it into power for their robots; when a Solarian died, his entire estate "died" with him from loss of power).

The question becomes, what do people live for in a society where your every material need is satisfied, and you can life forever if you chose to?

[mirdin1992]

That could be an outcome but the problem with SG universe is that the law of how much technology and knowledge you have is inverse proportional to your competence seems to apply.

What I'm getting at is that with what the ancients had or was implied to have I could conquer the Culture if I had enough prep time. Even with Asgard or even Goa'uld tech in the hand of a competent person would make him quite uber, but it seems with more honking space guns someone has the dumber they get.

[Crazy Tom]

Point taken, but it's more realistic to assume people will know what their doing.

Have we ever seen anti-gravity on the show, or was it all the old fashioned kind?

On warfare, I think it would be a mix of FTL fighter drones with AI, that use their hyper drive as a weapon, creating an area of gravitational stress that powerful, but not powerful enough to enter hyperspace. Anything it touches will be torn apart, so they would act as reusable kill vehicles. And then there would be huge dreadnoughts that manufacture these fighters by the thousands.

[Womble]

Not quite, Atlantis spends 99% of it's time planet side, I'm talking about a city that spends 99% of it's time in space.

That will never happen. For one, resources are mainly planet side. Secondly, maintaining shields, life support and all the bells and whistles needed for space-hovering is just too costly and unnecessary in peacetime.

Who would want a ship that wanders the seas never docking in any port, anyway? Isn't the point of travel to arrive somewhere occasionally?

Point taken, but since battles would be taking pace from great distance, wouldn't that give some advance warning with FTL sensors?

Not sure how much advance warning you can get against energy beams moving at the speed of light, but still, shape change is no defence. It's pretty easy to think of ways to defeat it. Relativistic cluster munitions. Salvo-firing beam cannon batteries instead of a single front-mounted one. Space-bursting naquadah bombs probably wouldn't work too well (no air to create a shockwave), but any form of area-effect damage would defeat the shapeshifter ship concept.

The question becomes, what do people live for in a society where your every material need is satisfied, and you can life forever if you chose to?

Well, for one, they would no longer be human in the sense familiar to us, so who the hell knows?

Besides, one's material needs tend to grow with their wealth. There's no such thing as a point of satisfaction.

[lordofseas]

That will never happen. For one, resources are mainly planet side. Secondly, maintaining shields, life support and all the bells and whistles needed for space-hovering is just too costly and unnecessary in peacetime.

No one said it had to be having a shield. It could be airtight. And it could be in orbit.

Who would want a ship that wanders the seas never docking in any port, anyway? Isn't the point of travel to arrive somewhere occasionally?

Travelling, yes. But if they really don't care, then they don't care.

Besides, one's material needs tend to grow with their wealth. There's no such thing as a point of satisfaction.

Not necessarily.

[Crazy Tom]

That will never happen. For one, resources are mainly planet side. Secondly, maintaining shields, life support and all the bells and whistles needed for space-hovering is just too costly and unnecessary in peacetime.

On the contrary, there are millions of tons of far more easily accessible material in space, form asteroids, to comets and so fourth.

As it was said, shields are only one way to maintain atmosphere, I was thinking more a long the lines of a huge star ship, sealed against vacuum. As I said, a ship must remain mobile in order to minimize the chance of being caught by a first strike. If it's always hanging in the same place, relativistic munitions can jump out of hyperspace and hit in in an eye blink.

This sort of first strike is the ideal military victory.

Not sure how much advance warning you can get against energy beams moving at the speed of light, but still, shape change is no defence. It's pretty easy to think of ways to defeat it. Relativistic cluster munitions. Salvo-firing beam cannon batteries instead of a single front-mounted one. Space-bursting naquadah bombs probably wouldn't work too well (no air to create a shockwave), but any form of area-effect damage would defeat the shapeshifter ship concept.

Yes, abut all are effect weapons are also weaker than concentrated ones of similar magnitude. Kinetic and plasma weapons can be be deflected at least partially by forcefields, which along with getting parts of the ship out of the way, would work.

Well, for one, they would no longer be human in the sense familiar to us, so who the hell knows?

I doubt it, in the first hundred years r so, "people" will still behave pretty human, out of a sense of nostalgia if nothing else.

Besides, one's material needs tend to grow with their wealth. There's no such thing as a point of satisfaction.

Because there is a sense of accomplishment in that, but when everyone has almost unlimited resources at their disposition? Don't get me wrong, that point of satisfaction will still not exist, but I think it would be diverted form material wealth.

[RubberJesus]

That will never happen. For one, resources are mainly planet side. Secondly, maintaining shields, life support and all the bells and whistles needed for space-hovering is just too costly and unnecessary in peacetime.

Who would want a ship that wanders the seas never docking in any port, anyway? Isn't the point of travel to arrive somewhere occasionally?

I'm not sure you understand what he's talking about, the artificial habitats in the culture novels were more like manufactured planets than actual ships.

[Thasc]

The Culture cannot exist until human society allows manufacturing and governance to be controlled exclusively by artificial intelligences. Sadly, I haven't really seen anything in Stargate that would point to that happening.

[thekillman]

in terms of habitation:

massive spacestations linking up to form even bigger stations, providing habitat, preferrably placed in the void between stars so they are uncharted *if stealth is preferred*, would be desirable. as in SG's case, artificial gravity and maintenance systems are not a problem, the city could have tons of great parks and lots of green, with sun-mimicking lights which keep the people happy. the green ensures CO2 reclamation and food production.

all materials are delivered and all waste is removed simply by space trains, quite literally.

each space train has 1 primary tow ship, which is quite blocky, and has multiple magnetic clamps. it ties 5 cargo pods to itself (one on top, one on the bottom, one at each side and one at the back), then the pods continue stacking in long rows. every 5th pod or so of the middle row, there is one engine pod containing a hyperdrive, powersource, and inertialess drive. each cargo pod has a small, much weaker drive for maneuvering.

trains can be stacked to kilometers of lenght, subspace fields being generated every Nth centre pod. one train can, similar to a real-life train, carry hundreds to thousands of pods, using dozens to a few hundred engine pods.

in one cargo run, massive amounts of cargo can be shipped (every cargo pod is 80% cargo or so), and after detaching the pods, waste pods can be attached and a few minutes later, the waste pods are launched, and their contents are put on a collision course with a star.

war is most likely done by old-fashioned nukes. preferrably raw naquahdah-enhanced fusion bombs, as they really do not require very special equipment.

"fighters" *if the name still applies * are long range nuke deployers. every squadron of 10 or so fighters has one hyperdrive pod which allows them to rapidly traverse immense distances. the pods cloak and move out of the danger area immediately.

[Crazy Tom]

The Culture cannot exist until human society allows manufacturing and governance to be controlled exclusively by artificial intelligences. Sadly, I haven't really seen anything in Stargate that would point to that happening.

I disagree. Even in the Culture'verse, the Iridians are an example of a biological species with a sufficiently powerful infrastructure to threaten and even possibly destroy the Culture.
And SG has a lot more exotic technologies to play around with.

I don't see how old fashioned nukes would become the main weapon. They make nice enough mines, but as a missile, they leave much to be desired, especially since radiation, their main way of inflicting damage in space, would be less effective due to increased (or total) automation on ships.

[Phantom6]

So Stargate has FTL, forcefields, inertia-less drives,

Not inertia-less. The Inertial Dampeners cut down on it. At extreme banking speeds though it can still pin you down.

[thekillman]

yea right.

Tangent. the Death Gliders have engines which take inertia and gravity out of the equation, IE, INERTIALESS DRIVES

[Arafinwë]

I tink the Nox culture could work is space.
If you have multiple planets to go, to grow crops, extract minnerals and water.
With machines and robots you can extract all you need from a planet.
Most people are going to take vacations on the surface, for avoiding to become a complet space culture.
Then you can travel with your fleet or saveral large city ships between planet systems.
As long there is a unite between the city ships and the planet.

As tot defends you have to develop powerfull en diffrent type of shields, and have many small and fast fighter ships,lage menoverable ships.