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    The Stargate Network

    We now have much information to work with so lets have a go at hypothetically building our own Stargate network.

    The simple premise is we have the technology to create artificial stable wormholes between two points, how would you design the Stargate network? What adjustments would you make to it, given that we know some canon elements to skip continuity at some points (like Teal'c dangling from a rope through an active wormhole, when we know that the gate will transmit matter as discreet units, waiting for every component before sending).

    First off, we should discuss the targetting system and see if we can refine that a little more, the ancients developed the gates to be used by anyone, otherwise they would have used their neural interface as a control system. So it stands to reason that a way would be included for anyone to be able to dial it, the addresses we know of have been collected from two sources, the Goauld cartouche, and the Ancient repository. But if a race has just happened upon the Stargate they would not be aware of such addresses and so it would be next to impossible for them to be able to use it via the process of random dialing, even if they did connect somewhere they would have no idea where their home planet would be in relation to where they have arrived and so wouldn't be able to dechiper the correct address back.

    Although I believe an address format is the most logical way to go, maybe we could refine the actual idea of it so I'd like to see your thoughts on that.

    Lets start with a connection from here to our closest star, Alpha Centauri (4.37 Ly). With a Stargate currently located on Centauri B in our hypothetical scenario.

    What method of targetting would you think we could use?

    #2
    Alright, should I design a SG network, my first step would be tome come up with an idea that works.

    Nine microgauge wormholes, in the several tonne range, arranged on a ring thing that encapsulates anything that steps through it in an Alcubierre warp bubble and send it through one of the wormholes. Each wormhole is permanent, and links to another wormhole, but the network is designed such that a warp bubble can be passed on along the network until it reaches the desired location.

    The dialing interface would be a three dimensional representation of the stargate network, projected into a nanite or pico/femto tech equivalent fog used for decontamination as best as possible. Control would likely be neural, or the equivalent, given the high technological level needed to create warp bubbles and wormholes, and the network itself would most likely be sentient or transapient, and could repair itself and adapt to changes.

    Comment


      #3
      Why would you need an Alcubierre warp bubble when the wormhole itself accomplishes the same feat (aka FTL travel) considering travel through subspace is faster.

      Comment


        #4
        I'm assuming a "real world" scenario, where wormholes big enough to let solid objects through would weigh millions of tonnes and have a very real gravitational well.

        Comment


          #5
          But that's the whole point of disintegration. Gate sends matter through a microscopic wormhole as a matter stream, which is most likely quark gluon plasma. I like that idea. I'd keep it.

          To ensure proper re-integration on the other end, I'd implement a quantum teleportation protocol. This should work in conjunction with the buffer system, which I like, and I'd keep as well.

          So, the buffer is now a virtual space in a quantum computer simulation of real world physics. That virtual space is linked to interaction with event horizon, allowing quantum state of the matter going through horizon to be converted into a quantum state within the buffer's virtual space. Once object is completely inside the buffer, the quantum teleportaion is performed from origin buffer to destination buffer. On that end, reintegration happens as the reverse of the above process.

          Now the tricky part. Matter, as it passes through event horizon, cannot be sent to the other end right away. It has to be delayed somehow. Possibly by creating extreme time dilation within the wormhole. If some of the matter changes direction, the corresponding parts of matter stream have to be reversed and sent back to event horizon they came from for reintegration. Don't ask me how to do this part. I have no clue.

          The only thing I'd really change about all of this is what happens to an object that's stuck in the destination buffer, if a person walked through in reverse, or if connection was interrupted. There is no reason to purge the buffer when next connection establishes. Yes, I know you can't reintegrate after connection drops. DHD or remote gate must provide power for it, and you need to create an event horizon. But that's not necessary. A much better protocol would be to reintegrate the contents on next connection. If next connection is incoming, the old contents should exit first thing before gate begins to receive. If the connection is outgoing, the contents should be sent to the destination gate.

          I'm not sure how I'd change the coordinate system, because I'm not even sure what the current system works like. I would probably use pulsars as reference points, but I see no reason not to use pictures of constellations they appear to belong to as seen from Earth as symbols to represent the pulsars. And I see no evidence in the show stating clearly that this isn't the case already.
          MWG Gate Network Simulation

          Looks familiar?

          Comment


            #6
            Teleportation in SG is incredibly unworkable. The processing power would have to be astronomical- that's not a figure of speech by the way, I'm talking Jupiter-brains here.

            Comment


              #7
              There are workarounds. The complexity of quantum system grows exponentially. So does the computing power of a quantum computer. If you can reduce some of the quantum dynamics to classical approximation, and still retain structural integrity of objects and living tissue, then you can use that exponential growth to your advantage, and a single crystal would be able to simulate a space big enough to fit large objects that can happen to pass through the gate.
              MWG Gate Network Simulation

              Looks familiar?

              Comment


                #8
                You lost me.

                But I still have the gut feeling that disintegration is a far more complex and tricky option versus the Alcubierre warp bubble, which has the added benefit of working off the same exotic matter a gate needs to stabilize it's wormholes.

                Comment


                  #9
                  The way the current dialing system works involves 6 chevrons which represent star constellations (somehow... various theories).. which essentially form a box in space with the 7th chevron somehow representing the home location.

                  Suffice it to say, it doesn't really work too well if you are dealing with hundreds of gates, or gates in other galaxies, or gates that are on the far side of the universe. Or gates that are on ships traveling faster than light that could be anywhere at any given time.

                  Even if you change each chevron so that it represents a pulsar's or any other heavenly bodies position in space, there are simply not enough of them to be capable of representing any point in the universe. We know that wormholes need to be aimed pretty accurately to avoid problems. So unless you want to add about a hundred extra reference points or new chevrons to every DHD. (which still wouldn't explain how you accurately dial a gate in another galaxy).

                  I think the simplest solution being the best one, you should just assign each DHD/Gate a permanent 6 digit address that will allow it to be dialed from wherever it happens to be. We know that the replicators and the Ancients had real time communication over essentially any distance so install such a technology in each DHD that allows it to report it's location to all the other Stargates when need be. Incidentally you will need to install some sensors on the DHD so it knows where it is relative to everything else, and give it some way to sense it's enviroment. So that it knows not to allow incoming wormholes during solar flares and the like. Have the DHD update each other about their status as neccassary, or have them all contact one central location that will then update the other gates impacted accordingly. In addition, if you have the gates all report to one location for new programming.. if you need to do something unusual.. Create a macro that forwards a traveler thru multiple gates for whatever reason. You could reprogram the Gates from this place rather than travel from planet to planet uploading new programing.

                  In the episode where Jack absorbs the ancient knowledge for the second time. It's stated that each chevron has a corresponding sound that goes along with it, so knowing an address is more a matter of knowing the six syllable name of the place that you are trying to go, even if you have no real idea where it is. This seems like a good idea to me. Rather than tell someone to dial to planet P3x605. Just tell them to gate to Pra-cla-rus-tay-ohe-nas... that way you can always get home because you know the name of the home planet or gate... or whatever.

                  I suppose in this instance the 7th chevron wouldn't be needed... as just using six chevrons will give you more than a million different addresses. However, given the problems with the current coordinate system I believe that the way the Stargates were originally explained was meant for the movie using only two gates.... and no one ever got around to fixing the problem when the series started.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by Crazy Tom View Post
                    But I still have the gut feeling that disintegration is a far more complex and tricky option versus the Alcubierre warp bubble, which has the added benefit of working off the same exotic matter a gate needs to stabilize it's wormholes.
                    Yes. Difficulty of making Alcubierre warp working is similar to difficulty of establishing a wormhole in the first place. In fact, the later is more advanced, because it requires a change to space-time topology. We have no known mechanism for that, though, it is speculated that particle creation/annihilation might affect topology. For Alcubierre warp, all you need is a source of negative energy density.

                    What I don't get is how it helps you? The whole point of the warp drive is to create a region of space with a different light cone. How does that help you squeeze objects into a tiny wormhole?
                    MWG Gate Network Simulation

                    Looks familiar?

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by K^2 View Post
                      Yes. Difficulty of making Alcubierre warp working is similar to difficulty of establishing a wormhole in the first place. In fact, the later is more advanced, because it requires a change to space-time topology. We have no known mechanism for that, though, it is speculated that particle creation/annihilation might affect topology. For Alcubierre warp, all you need is a source of negative energy density.

                      What I don't get is how it helps you? The whole point of the warp drive is to create a region of space with a different light cone. How does that help you squeeze objects into a tiny wormhole?
                      The original Alcubierre drive needed several times the energy he entire universe had to function, but Van Den Broeck and Krasknikov reduced it to a few milligrams by expanding the 3D volume contained inside the bubble. Thus it's bigger on the inside than on the outside, allowing it to fit though a micro gauge wormhole.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Alright, I see what you mean. It'd be easier to expand the "space" inside the wormhole itself, but you'd still have extreme tidal forces to deal with, so you'd need a region of flat space-time around the traveler, which while not being exactly like Alcubierre warp space, would be very similar nonetheless. And you'd need negative energy densities either way, so alright.

                        But that is partly why I like the SG approach. Tidal forces are actually used as part of the disintegration process.
                        MWG Gate Network Simulation

                        Looks familiar?

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Really? When did they say tidal forces were used in the disintegration process?

                          Anyways, I wonder whether it would be possible to built a Krasnikov tunnel trough a micro gauge wormhole...

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by Kailias View Post
                            Spoiler:
                            The way the current dialing system works involves 6 chevrons which represent star constellations (somehow... various theories).. which essentially form a box in space with the 7th chevron somehow representing the home location.

                            Suffice it to say, it doesn't really work too well if you are dealing with hundreds of gates, or gates in other galaxies, or gates that are on the far side of the universe. Or gates that are on ships traveling faster than light that could be anywhere at any given time.

                            Even if you change each chevron so that it represents a pulsar's or any other heavenly bodies position in space, there are simply not enough of them to be capable of representing any point in the universe. We know that wormholes need to be aimed pretty accurately to avoid problems. So unless you want to add about a hundred extra reference points or new chevrons to every DHD. (which still wouldn't explain how you accurately dial a gate in another galaxy).

                            I think the simplest solution being the best one, you should just assign each DHD/Gate a permanent 6 digit address that will allow it to be dialed from wherever it happens to be. We know that the replicators and the Ancients had real time communication over essentially any distance so install such a technology in each DHD that allows it to report it's location to all the other Stargates when need be. Incidentally you will need to install some sensors on the DHD so it knows where it is relative to everything else, and give it some way to sense it's enviroment. So that it knows not to allow incoming wormholes during solar flares and the like. Have the DHD update each other about their status as neccassary, or have them all contact one central location that will then update the other gates impacted accordingly. In addition, if you have the gates all report to one location for new programming.. if you need to do something unusual.. Create a macro that forwards a traveler thru multiple gates for whatever reason. You could reprogram the Gates from this place rather than travel from planet to planet uploading new programing.

                            In the episode where Jack absorbs the ancient knowledge for the second time. It's stated that each chevron has a corresponding sound that goes along with it, so knowing an address is more a matter of knowing the six syllable name of the place that you are trying to go, even if you have no real idea where it is. This seems like a good idea to me. Rather than tell someone to dial to planet P3x605. Just tell them to gate to Pra-cla-rus-tay-ohe-nas... that way you can always get home because you know the name of the home planet or gate... or whatever.

                            I suppose in this instance the 7th chevron wouldn't be needed... as just using six chevrons will give you more than a million different addresses. However, given the problems with the current coordinate system I believe that the way the Stargates were originally explained was meant for the movie using only two gates.... and no one ever got around to fixing the problem when the series started.
                            I like your theory.

                            The only problem I see is with the central location that needs to be a place heavily fortified. Since your whole network depends on it, whoever controls it, controls the network. And destroying it means the end of the gate network and potentially the end of human space civilization. A good prelude to an invasion...
                            La vie est une tragédie - Tout le monde meurt à la fin.
                            L'Histoire est une comédie - Les gentils gagnent toujours à la fin.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              To answer the original question I would recommend using this dialing system:

                              Each symbol represents a series of degrees which by adding any two together it is possible to get any whole number degree. (I am no mathematician and there may not be enough symbols. I am sure some system could be found whereby two symbols represented a very precise degree measurement)

                              The line between the center of mass of a galaxy and some other important feature, say for argument the second largest object such as a black hole or the largest star, forms an axis. Because galaxies spin, set the plane of rotation as the xy plane.

                              When viewed from a line emerging from the center of the galaxy and perpendicular to the xy plane the center of mass axis I described earlier becomes the 0/360 degree line.

                              The line emerging from the center and perpendicular to the xy plane from which the rotation of the galaxy is counter-clockwise becomes the zero line for the z dimension.

                              The first two symbols represent the number of degrees the receiving gate is from the 0/360 axis in the direction of spin on the xy plane.

                              The second two represent the z degrees with positive numbers rising up until 90 is directly over the galactic center then descends so that 180 is directly beneath it.

                              The final two symbols would represent the distance along this line from the galactic center.

                              This system would be a little unwieldy for a single galaxy, but is optimized for multiple galaxies because it sets up universal conventions which do not depend on local stars. Thus dialing between galaxies is much easier.

                              I would also make use of the seventh, eighth, and ninth symbols to dial extragalactic instead of just the eighth.

                              Those two would work as follows: from the galaxies zero axis in the spinward direction however many symbols you have would be used to represent that many equally spaced flat pie slice shaped regions. The same would be done for the z axis using the same positive direction as the second two symbols. Finally The last would devide these prisms into sections who's length was equivalent to the power the DHD had available.

                              The flaws in this system are as follows:
                              1)Gates which are close to each other in all six main quardinates could be mistaken for each other.
                              2)Galaxies which are in the same extragalactic box could be mistaken. In such a case, the largest galaxy would be preferred. However, in such a case, a galaxy will be defined as the center of mass to avoid galaxies with only a few stars in a region from dominating the box.
                              3)Gates must updates there position to the whole network to compensate for stellar drift
                              4)People would have to learn the coordinate system. A work around for this might be to en-scribe the coordinate system on the DHD or near the gate.

                              What do you all think? I am sorry for not explaining it clearly.

                              Edit: I apologize for not answering the original post. The dialing would go something like this:

                              We know where we want to go. We know the direction the galaxy spins. We know the proper axis. Thus we are able with six symbols to calculate the position of of star. This does however run into the ease of use problem.

                              Edit: A possible work around for the ease of use problem is to engrave home on the DHD. Thus anyone leaving should know what their own coordinates are. Another idea is for the sending gate to forward to the receiver a hologram of the environment around it when it is dialed. So when you go to a gate and dial it before you push the big red button it will show you what it looked like. This could solve a lot of confusion. Gates could include a snapshot and forward there snapshot buffers in periodic updates so that the image is semi current. Any gates which do not respond with a snapshot could be locked out of the DHD's valid addressed. Not sending would indicate destroyed or buried. Thus that gate would have to be reactivated before people can dial in.
                              Last edited by Exthalion; 19 October 2009, 10:28 PM.
                              My Tep senses are tingling.

                              That I will have to edit is assumed.

                              Comments and critiques are always welcome. Please, tell me what you think.

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