Announcement

**a6346** · 26 September 2009, 09:38 AM

TBH I know were your comming from but these ideas aren't that good, sorry to say it but they just seem less entertaining and more fan awe value.

The ORI were meant to be very powerful even though there ships were very powerful they needed to be that for the job they were doing and the shock value. Maybe the Asgard vessel shouldn't have been there and save it for a later ep were the an Oniell class commanded by Thor/Vaser spends a week or two fighting the ORI. Most battles end the same were the Oniell is on par with ORI vessels but just before a victory for the Asgard another ORI ship drops out of hyperspace responding in minutes with there faster hyperdrives forcing the Asgard retreat.

The Hives were overused though, They shouldn't be used as front line combat vessels ad should be parked deeper in the solar system to provide darts and other culling techniques (If they get closer to a planet the Hive has it's own mass culling beam). But the Wraith use cruiser for ground bambardment and the second the battle goes against them the hive leaves to save itself.

Hives should be more custom built to the desire of the queen not astetically but systems wise some having faster engines (Not able to get to MW) some should have stronger weapons (These hives wanted to drain Atlantian shields faster) some should have shields (These Hives feared Ancient beam weapons and energy weapons instead of drones). So every hives has its own traits and fighting it in space combat means you must be more cautious.

The asgard beam weapons should've only destroyed the shields not the ship or the hull making hives the same strength agaisnt attack (Except shielded ones) and once the shields go down the 304's must use more conventional weapons. Also Aurora's have very good armour plating (See 'No mans land' A few minutes unsheilded against a hives weapons).

Now onto EATG the hive shoudln't have been a solo hives with mega ZPM this is what might have been better. During the events of 'Lost tribe' Todd downloaded some data from the Daedalus on it's shields, engines, weapons and the location of Earth. After he abandons ship he uses these new upgrades on 3 Hives and 7 cruisers. The hives and cruisers hyperdrives are upgraded to intergalactic and less powerful Asgard beam weapons are installed (Poor copies) Also poor Asgard shields are fitted to them. This now means there better armed and faster and stronger and now with more energy efficient hyperdrives more of the hives systems are comming online. Atlantis still needs to come home only now the Hives are weaker than the superhive they haven't used a ZPM plothole and the battle would be more impressive/beleavble.

At the end of EATG Atlantis appears to take out the rest of the hives not destroyed by the home fleet which got a few kills but was forced to retreat, Atlantis has problems deatroying the Wraith ships with only it's drones but then it interfaces with the Antartic drones and Carson fires them towards the fleet finishing it. Atlantis is having powerf problems (same one as lifeline) and needs to land for repairs before it vacumes.

Ed · 26 September 2009, 09:46 AM

I know the ORI where meant to be powerful but at most an ori ship should have been on par with an aura class most battles would go the same way ad thats the point the go that way without deu ex machias

i like the idea on the hives i mean those heavy guns the really big ones that there are about 6 of can shoot a really long way

I think TPTB didnt think about it they just though right this plot demands this side wins so they win with no thinking of balance hence stupid things lie 304s killing hives and auras getting flattened all over the place in BAMSR when we know the can take at least a single hive 1v1 let alone when they have greater numbers asurans should have had a smaller fleet and not nerfed the auras or if its that importaint to have them go down easy have the asurans use the smaller ships more.

i always hated the way odessy ended up its just stupid should have been an asgard ship AOT would have made more sence as the plot fo the film required SG1 to have an

EATG was just daft rushed poorly thought out and riddled with plot holes.

**thekillman** · 26 September 2009, 10:11 AM

i think EATG was fine with only one point:

classical nuking. a hive with such dense armor would be able to eat a nuke. however, the ship is internally damaged and the ZPM power is lost. now, the General Hammond majestically rises from it's bay, heads to space and annihilates the ship with it's armament of nukes and APBW's.

atlantis (it's being stressed several times that it is in poor shape since TLT and it's not made to fight) is damaged and lands.

Ed · 26 September 2009, 02:33 PM

They should have spread some of the points out more maybee gone for a two parter i mean they had stuff to put in they could have shown the battle in the void shown more of the hive being built ect

**lordofseas** · 26 September 2009, 03:50 PM

Originally posted by thekillman View Post

i think EATG was fine with only one point:

classical nuking. a hive with such dense armor would be able to eat a nuke. however, the ship is internally damaged and the ZPM power is lost. now, the General Hammond majestically rises from it's bay, heads to space and annihilates the ship with it's armament of nukes and APBW's.

atlantis (it's being stressed several times that it is in poor shape since TLT and it's not made to fight) is damaged and lands.

*jaw drops* Are you intentionally forgetting about the wormhole drive?

**thekillman** · 26 September 2009, 11:02 PM

nope.

i assumed most would think the same as me: have them drop out prematurely, then the team leaves, and Zelenka says he could get the hyperdrive online if he disables a few safety measures. woolsey says they have to take the gamble.

in the battle over earth, a hyperspace window opens, and atlantis drops out at the same time as it did with the old EATG.

the battle ensues.

Ed · 27 September 2009, 11:28 AM

Wornhole drive i had erased that from my memory totally pointless

I still hate the super upgraded odessy its such bad writing note how they had to say its on a secret mission in EATG

**stargater1990** · 28 September 2009, 06:43 PM

i think that ori ships would have been stronger than auroras and that they were as strong as they should have been because your forgetting that the ori were acended so any new ori tech is and should be much more powerful than the ancients stuff because they have an understanding of an infinite universe so having weak ships would be an insult to the ori.

after all, the ori ships most likely had an ancient city ship type shield and a ZPM or greater level power source and that is pretty much exactly what they had. and i mean they didint need numbers because the goaulds technology is so weak compared to atlantis, which is really the equivilent of an ori mother ship, and therefore superior numbers were unneccisary.

**a6346** · 28 September 2009, 06:56 PM

I kinda agree except being an ascended being doesn't make you all knowing. Otherwise they would have known about the MW and Pegasus before Daniel screwed it all up for us. So there tech isn't made from all god omnipitant stuff.

However they are ascended which means they can generally make anything they want with the wave of a hand. This means they could make something the power of a ZPM but the size of a fist to power there ships. They can pretty much make anything which is the advantage of being ascended were they seem to be able to work outside the laws on known standard Physics (Rodney did say the Ancients made an all new physics scale different from ours to work there tech and ascension).

Unfortunatly we have to work inside of what we know as we can't see every tiny bit of matter inside our sphere of influence. As I type this I could be sat on the most powerful energy source in the universe but we just don't know yet. Were as the ORI can see these things.
--

BTW on a slightly different subject the Ancients non interference policy in the ORI matter made no sense. They were all ready interfering with the natural way of things because the ORI were coming to destroy them if the Ancients werent there then the ORI would never have came. The Ancients were the entire reason behind the war and they didn't even need to attack the ORI to do it just wait intill the ORI ships came throught the gate and straight away move them just outside the ORI's sphere of influence (About 1 mile from were they ORI can operate. This would stop any advancement of forces from both side and not mess with peoples free will.

The Ancients were the cause of the slavery of the MW by the ORI it was interference into our way of life without direct action on there part.

**Ouroboros** · 28 September 2009, 07:58 PM

Most of the problems with ship balance can really be traced back to the 304 power creep. It's what made the Ori necessary, it's what made normal hives look weak following the beamz, it's what required the creation of the superhive.

If they'd just been able to resist the temptation to wank off the USAF's second ship ever then a lot of the problems could have been avoided.

I didn't personally have any problem with the Ori being depicted as powerful as they were. They were rivals to the ancients afterall so it makes sense that they should be very powerful. What didn't make sense was how piss small their civilization was or the fact that it was again another "bunch of primitive farmers ruled over by evil aliens" set up. Especially when we're asked to believe that the primitive farmers build their super death ships for them.

The Wraith didn't make sense though. They were supposed to have defeated the ancients yet for many years you could find people seriously saying that the Goa'uld could beat them, and even now there's serious doubt about how some of their smaller ships would compare to 1 on 1 to Goa'uld ones of similar size. That simply doesn't cut it for the race that was supposed to have destroyed the ancients. It wasn't really until the super hive that they got the sort of power levels you'd expect from a race that could beat the Ancients with 10,000 year old versions of their technology.

I would have just set the actual hive ships at that power level from the start but made them very rarely encountered.

It's ironic that the same thing that sunk the Ori would have improved the Wraith. The Ori lost credibility because they're supposed to be launching a galactic invasion and they're doing it with 4 ships. The Wraith on the other hand lost credibility because all of them woke up and even then they couldn't crush the laughable resistance presented by about 100 humans from Earth, a 10,000 year obsolete ancient city that doesn't work properly anymore, and a tiny Earth ship that's about 1/100th the tonnage of one of their own.

The Ori should have got the large numbers for their invasion and the Wraith should have got the really scarily powerful "better than even the ancients" stuff like superhives, but very very little of it. Basically explain it that when the team arrives the entire species is in hibernation and they don't wake them all up. Rather treat the idea of waking them up as a guaranteed game over, not just for the team in Pegasus but probably for the entire MW, Asgard and any other of Earth's allies within reach. Make the Wraith this sort of sinister sleeping horror from a dark time before recorded human history, that the team only gets tiny glimpses of via those caretakers and such, who are just the Wraith equivalent of night watchmen. Just let the team fight with the caretakers, it's not necessary for Earth to constantly be embattled with entire alien civilizations, especially not ones who destroy the ancients and should be so nightmarishly overpowered because of it that the SGC even thinking about instigating a stand up fight with them would be looked at as the doom of our species.

**dahok** · 28 September 2009, 09:03 PM

Originally posted by Ouroboros View Post

Most of the problems with ship balance can really be traced back to the 304 power creep. It's what made the Ori necessary, it's what made normal hives look weak following the beamz, it's what required the creation of the superhive.

It wouldn't be much of a series of the Wraith showed up and just blasted the Expedition to pieces. Same goes for final couple seasons of SG-1 with the Ori.
The Jaffa lived in pre-industrial villages and towns, but with the instruction of the Goa'uld they constructed the ships. The Ori are free to cheat all they want in their own galaxy anyway.

But the 304s... When all was said, the Asgard had the best ship-to-ship shields and weapons ever designed in our known universe, which we get handed right to us without a hitch. They just aren't there yet in terms of power generation, referring to that ultra compact ZPM. I actually liked it. The Asgard were the best ally we had, and I was pleased that another race could defeat Ancient tech, such as what the Asurans used.

I expect a bigger mess once SGU airs. Like how they're going to make the premiere dramatic when we have these crazy powerful 304's that should one-shot zap a Ha'tak straight through, much like the Ori did to them in Camelot. I want the Asgard legacy to last, I want their weapons to shred Ha'taks because I have yet to witness it.

There's my rant for the topic.

**Ouroboros** · 29 September 2009, 04:31 AM

Originally posted by dahok View Post

It wouldn't be much of a series of the Wraith showed up and just blasted the Expedition to pieces. Same goes for final couple seasons of SG-1 with the Ori.

It's not really a problem if you write it the right way. It might be a little harder with the Ori and their massive invasion but if you limited the Wraith's numbers like I said then they'd have to find the expedition before they could blast them.

Their problem was they had a tendency to want to throw the 304s into these 1 on one or sometimes even several on one battles with these various alien ships. Of course when you do that you have to make them last longer than the scant few seconds they reasonably should, so then you end up with this tiny little Earth ship being somehow at least competitive with these giant alien battleships that are like 20 or 100 times it's size and supposedly built by more advanced societies on top of it. It's just goofy.

I expect a bigger mess once SGU airs. Like how they're going to make the premiere dramatic when we have these crazy powerful 304's that should one-shot zap a Ha'tak straight through, much like the Ori did to them in Camelot. I want the Asgard legacy to last, I want their weapons to shred Ha'taks because I have yet to witness it.

There's my rant for the topic.

I don't know if they're planning on carting all the old overpowered junk into the new series like that. I certainly hope they don't. I thought the whole point of this was to start again with a clean slate.

**thekillman** · 29 September 2009, 05:02 AM

wraith as an ever lingering enemy that could awake with a wrong move.... sounds good.

i do not think we need Superhives.
two things simply bug me:
1: hive's firepower compared to other ships.
2: hive's ability to soak up damage.

railguns were ineffective because, quite simply, the armor was too thick and the ship was too big. nukes could do damage but did not come close.

internal nukes did miracles, something i find idiotic. with a ship that size, the explosion goes the way of least resistance. in this case, two or three holes would have been created where most of the energy goes, and a hive should've been heavily damaged, but by no means destroyed.

just as APBW's can destroy hives. these weapons should make them into swiss cheese, not blow up the front halve in 1 shot.

also, i hate how a cruiser can be a competition to a 304 and a hive gets spanked. really, a hive should, according to size, be 11x more powerfull than a cruiser

Ed · 29 September 2009, 05:50 AM

Originally posted by thekillman View Post

wraith as an ever lingering enemy that could awake with a wrong move.... sounds good.

i do not think we need Superhives.
two things simply bug me:
1: hive's firepower compared to other ships.
2: hive's ability to soak up damage.

railguns were ineffective because, quite simply, the armor was too thick and the ship was too big. nukes could do damage but did not come close.

internal nukes did miracles, something i find idiotic. with a ship that size, the explosion goes the way of least resistance. in this case, two or three holes would have been created where most of the energy goes, and a hive should've been heavily damaged, but by no means destroyed.

just as APBW's can destroy hives. these weapons should make them into swiss cheese, not blow up the front halve in 1 shot.

also, i hate how a cruiser can be a competition to a 304 and a hive gets spanked. really, a hive should, according to size, be 11x more powerfull than a cruiser

That's what i was trying to get at the crusier should be a bit weaker than a 304 but still a problem a hive should be beyond our reach if one has to go down ship to ship write in something extra 304s/ travllers/ rival wraith ect

A hive is 11KM long it should have been the most powerful ship in stargate but rare 60 in an entire galaxy would be fine just have it be more along the lines of
shepard: anything from the genii device
Mkay: there are atleast 60 hives in the galaxy
shepard: what are those other blips
Mkay: crusiers lots of them hundreds posibly more.

in battle of the week scenarios it should have been crusiers and these should not have queeens

the seige should have been a scenario of wraith crusiers are hurrying here trying to get atlantis first the next wave should have been one hive and it should have withstood the deadalous beam a nuke and formulated the jammers forcing deadalus to retreat then the last part is the same more and more wraith ships ariving all the time

hell this alonw would have made BAMSR more beleivable 7 hives would be incredably scary not just ah 7

The ori had to be powerfull because everything els had been dumbed down thors ship losing to the hatack was a mistake should have been far more out numbered maybe 10 to 1 then the oneils show up and blow the crap out of the hatacks and force a retreat this would set up the asgard as on par with the ori but with less numbers making our eventual ability to beat ori ships beleivable.

Announcement

TPTB screwed up ship strenghs discus

TPTB screwed up ship strenghs discus

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment