Technology trading

[Laxian of Earth]

Hello guys,

i am back ^^ (had a hard time to compress all my activities into a "normal" day - i still have to sleep sometimes - so i was not here often (just watching, and not writing, could not even write on my fanfiction also the plot continues to boil in my head and might be overcooked by now ))

But now on to the topic:

I have got a question for you concerning technology trade:

1. Why does earth not trade with the jaffa (or tok'ra) for ships? i mean the hataks baal had are pretty sophisticated in their own right and surely can be modified/upgraded so that they surpass the BC-304 because they are bigger and with mods surely more durable, faster (in hyperspace, as they have better power generation), have more firepower and if they can get their hands on the tech (in one episode the goa'uld cloaked a hatak) can be cloaked without a ZPM on board. even more: they could acquire Alkesh to fill the role of a small black opps/attack ship (destroyer) that could surely be equiped with a downscaled asgard beam . as for transport ships: get teltaks (can arm them as well if you want)
even better: they could trade tobins people for a few of that Orii ships (plenty left, even with the few they blew up) as they surely don't need all of those and should be thankfull for freing them of their "gods" (imagine one of them "upgraded"! - goodbye hives!)

advantages would be: no more producing of hulls (takes the longest in my oppinion, as they have to get the material first (get it to earth, too, as they use a trinium alloy as far as i know)), having larger, faster and more powerfull ships in a shorter amount of time.

2. How long do you think it would take to upgrade a goa'uld ship to Asgard standart?

my own guess is, with all the modules ready and the plans for upgrades drawn up: 4 weeks per ship (less if you get carter/mckay to help), less for smaller ships (teltak/alkesh) say 2 weeks - meaning you could role out about 16 big ships a year, if you can get your hands on that many and 32 smaller ones and solve a lot of problems with this:
- no more overpowered ships used as transports (a BC304 is not a transport, never was and never will be)
- no more defensless earth/atlantis (can station a few ships their permanently)
- no more problems having less ships then needed
- no more problems fighting hives (even in larger fleets)
- no more problems when having to extract teams from somewhere (send a cloaked alkesh or two )
- no more problems getting somewhere (we could even go to planets we have been on and we know there is technology there we could use and the gate was destroyed/burried)

3. what could we offer the jaffa?

easy: we explain to them how to maintain the technology they have (most of them are unable to make simplest repairs as we see in Tealc and bratak), give them naquadah (fuel for their reactors) and give them a simple yet good plan for new ships should they ever need to build some (a simple ship, as simple as the Prometheus without asgard upgrades)

mfg LAX
ps: why haven't their been efforts to capture/borrow goa'uld shipyards (then we would not even have to trade for ships and would have no proplem building more ships then on earth, where the number of sites to build ships in is limited (military areas with high security and a lot of space around, in order to start without being seen by a large crowd))

[Merlin1701]

Perhaps because ha'taks and such have been used to create fear throughout the MW, not a great ship to meet new people in. Using an Ha'tak makes the Taui look like the Lucian Alliance, Goa'uld or Jaffa.

The only thing I would use a Ha' tak for is to carry ore back to Earth and I would steal it form the LA!

[guppy338]

he is right same as the ori ship we need are own ships not other races

[Laxian of Earth]

maybe, but for a race in need of ships (we need them now, not in ten years or longer) without the time to waste building them...

as for creating fear: we would only meet hightech races with those ships and those would be able to scan the ship to see that it is maybe a goa'uld hull, but that this is one of the only things goa'uld on the ship - even more, if we send them to pegasus (and keep all BC304 "home") where no one knows the snakes we have no problem of that kind!

on another note: the tok'ra use these ships and have no "fear" problem, so why should we?

even better: we at the moment roll out say 2-3 (if even that many) ships a year, now that is not that much (but with the need of keeping secrets more are not possible i guess) with traded ships we could (if calculations and assumptions of mine are correct) roll out up to 4 times as many ships (and start building more of our own afterwards or even at the same time, giving us even more ships)

greetings LAX
ps: @gruppy: an upgraded hatak is (with a real command center made on earth - not this goa'uld consoles where you have to stand at) is as much our ship as one build by us (an it's even more powerfull and larger (look at comparisons between a hatak and the Daedalus))

[lordofseas]

Because there is a point of which you can retrofit a ship before you need to start taking it apart.

[lordofseas]

Also, I would think our relationship with the Jaffa is tenuous at best. There are a few here and there that trust our intentions, but, we have seen time and time again that the Jaffa as a whole are not rather trusting of us. For one, instead of co-operation, Ger'ak ordered a ha'tak to the moon. If I was in a position of power, I would have been pissed beyond belief. Could you put that past the government? And, for another, they held a General against his wishes, in Counterstrike, and accused Earth of affronting the Jaffa by taking the Ori Mothership. Tenuous is not really like it. I'd call it hair thin. And have you ever met a politician that didn't hold grudges? I don't think that Earth would want to co-operate on a trading scale with the Jaffa yet. Not until events settle down.

[Control_Chair]

It's a pity the Tollan aren't around anymore, they had some pretty advanced tech (like phase shifting technology, ion cannons and that device that could deactivate any sort of weapon). I think that they would be more willing to share their tech with us today given the fact that we now have access to the all the knowledge of two of the most advanced races ever in stargate (the Asgard and the Ancients,) I am sure they would share their tech for access to those databases. Also I think that we kinda proven we can handle such advanced tech without blowing up our home world, (just McKay blowing up other worlds, but they wouldn’t need to know about that! )

[lordofseas]

It's a pity the Tollan aren't around anymore, they had some pretty advanced tech (like phase shifting technology, ion cannons and that device that could deactivate any sort of weapon). I think that they would be more willing to share their tech with us today given the fact that we now have access to the all the knowledge of two of the most advanced races ever in stargate (the Asgard and the Ancients,) I am sure they would share their tech for access to those databases. Also I think that we kinda proven we can handle such advanced tech without blowing up our home world, (just McKay blowing up other worlds, but they wouldn’t need to know about that! )

*loves Tollan*

[Merlin1701]

Are we in that drastic a shape to need so many ships?

[lordofseas]

Are we in that drastic a shape to need so many ships?

Well, if the _____ (insert SGU Icarus base attacker) are willing to attack a Tau'ri base, then I wouldn't put it past them to attack Earth when it realizes Atlantis is cloaked, and it'll take time for shields to be re-established, and the Antarctic chair is gone.

[Laxian of Earth]

Are we in that drastic a shape to need so many ships?

i would say yes, because we still have to (at least if you look at it from a morale point of view - we woke them up, so we either put them to sleep again, which is impossible so we have to fight them or find another solution!) fight the wraith, then there is the attackers from SGU and even more: some other factions and people we angered during the Stargate Program (like the ones in "Grace" they don't seem to like us much) and many others out there

in the past we were lucky,

lucky that the goa'uld didn't band together and destroy us,

lucky enough that the asgard bluff worked for a few years,

lucky that they goa'uld (baal and anubis) that could didn't go after us in full force (2 ships of anubis design that could resist the asgard would have been enough, if they wished to bombard us),

lucky that during us fighting the goa'uld/orii no other race with a liking for fighting found out about us (like those in Daedalus Variations - nasty buggers)

we were/are lucky that the wraith can't bridge the distance between our galaxies (think about it how much damage even a single "normal" hive could do in the galaxy, even if it didn't attack us directly or didn't attack us at all!),

we are lucky that we beat the crap out of the goa'uld befor they could find the means to really fight us,

....see, there is a lot of luck in there and if you take that out of the equation then there is a need for a whole lot of ships (even more if we give some of them to people like our russian friends that get theirs blown up before it's 100% combat ready)

even worse, building new ships is likely more expensive then overhauling traded ones (thats why the US put all their navy ships through SLEP - service live extension program - after they served for a time, instead of building new ones, which they do after say 20 years or more!)

as for taking them appart for the overhaul, i'd say: No, at least not fully. yes you might have to throw out a lot of technology you replace, but hell, easier then building a new ship and once it has been done for the first time, there are plans drawn up and it can be done faster. Even better you might not have to throw out much, if you can upgrade installed stuff.

greetings LAX

[jds1982]

You'd still need people to fly those ships, and you would have a shortage of them until the stargate went public.

[lordofseas]

You'd still need people to fly those ships, and you would have a shortage of them until the stargate went public.

If we're going to talk about flying ships, it only takes two people to operate a Goa'uld Mothership.

[boeli]

If we're going to talk about flying ships, it only takes two people to operate a Goa'uld Mothership.

and you can probably set a 304's computer to run in auto mode and you'll only need one person to make moral discissions like attack or not attack. but for some reason htere are still god knows how many crewmembers aboard our 304's.

[Merlin1701]

the attackers in SGU

Spoiler:

use ha'taks, gliders etc making them Jaffa, LA or Goa'uld

. which brings me back to my first point...