Favorite Season? (Spoilers)

[Descent]

Actually, favorite 'chapter' seems more appropriate... :P If someone wants to make this into a poll, then go for it. If not, that's okay too. I just wanted to have some great discussion(s) with you guys about our favorite season of B5.

I'll do a quick rundown of my thoughts on each season. So, here it goes:

Season 1 - "Signs and Portents" - Most shows start out pretty rough and I feel like B5 is no exception. In fact, it turned me off so much when I first watched it that I actually tried to watch only the important episodes (http://forum.gateworld.net/showthread.php?t=35006) my first time through. Kinda silly. When I eventually came back to the season/show, I decided to restart and watch all 22 episodes.

To my surprise, I really enjoyed most of the season and the episodes I had already watched seemed... better, somehow. :) True, Sinclair was still iffy and there were some truly bad almost TOS-like episodes (Infection, Believers, TKO), but overall, it was enjoyable. I don't think it achieved anything truly amazing at this point, though it had it's handful of standout episodes (Sky Full of Stars, Babylon Squared).

I'd give it a 7/10.

Season 2 - "Coming of Shadows" - Thank god for Bruce Boxleitner/Sheridan. I don't know about you guys, but I felt like he was 100 times better than O'Hare/Sinclair. I pretty much immediately accepted him as the 'new lead'. The plot/character/arc development was much better this season.

The writing in general seemed better (less TOS writers, more JMS?), the acting seemed better and everything started to click. Finding out that Santiago was in fact assassinated, Sheridan and Kosh, the Shadows finally coming into play and Londo getting in deep with them and Missster Morden... exciting stuff. Low points for me would be the character of Keffer along with episodes like Soul Mates and Long Dark. Compared to Season 1 though, these low points weren't as bad and there was a lot more standout stuff this season like Revelations, Coming of Shadows, In The Shadow and Long, Twilight Struggle. Such a big improvement over Signs and Portents.

I'd give this season an 8.5/10.

Season 3 - "Point of No Return" - Ahh, Marcus. Ahh, Zack. Ahh, Lyta. Great new characters this season. The season started off a little slow, but this build up to the fantastic mid-season 'three parter' Messages/Point/Severed remains one of my favorite arcs of the entire series. B5 is now on it's own against the Shadows.

Really, there are just so many compelling episodes this season. War Without End is a fitting end (beginning?) to our former lead and Interludes and Examinations was tense and kinda... sad. Farewell, Kosh. The only episode I didn't care for this season was Avalon. Boring/pointless fluff as far as I'm concerned. Other than that, this remains one of my favorite TV seasons of all time. Best B5 episode of all time = Z'ha'dum. Or Severed Dreams. Or War Without End. Or... agh!

9.5/10 from me.

Season 4 - "No Surrender, No Retreat" - While this is the Season of B5 that gets praised the most, I don't necessarily think it's the best one. I feel like the Shadows (arguably the 'main' enemies of the series) got brushed under the carpet far too easily and the opening arc with Sheridan contemplating the purpose of his life... eh. I dunno, it wasn't very satisfying to me.

But I feel like the rest of the season more than makes up for it. Most of the 'taking care of Clark' arc, involving Mars and Garibaldi and all that stuff... those are just some of the best moments from the series. On the other hand, I honestly felt like anything to do with Delenn/Mimbari (Atonement, Transition) reached for greatness and didn't quite make it. Ah well. Surrender onwards is pretty much a perfect ending for the series. I still find Rising Star to be a perfectly acceptable series finale for B5. True, I haven't seen Sleeping in Light yet, but everything is wrapped up nicely at the end of Rising.

9/10 from me.

Season 5 - "Wheel of Fire" - Ahem, uh... I still haven't finished this season so I'll just say that so far it feels like a forced/unnecessary add-on to the series. Lochley does nothing for me. Byron and his 'cult' of telepaths don't do much for me either. Long Night of Londo Mollari in particular sticks out as contrived and entirely unnecessary. We know that Londo regrets what he has done. I already had gotten all of this out of Season 4. It's pretty rough, but I hear that the second half is much better than the first.

From what I've seen so far, I'd give it a 5/10.

So yeah, Season 3. The "separation" from Earth did a lot for me and while I did love a lot of Season 4, it didn't completely impress me. What about you guys? Have anything to add to what I've said? Disagree with me? Go! Discuss! :P

[Missster.Freeman]

Season three.

That's my long answer. :D

[Descent]

Season three.

That's my long answer. :D

Ah, excellent choice. It's almost as long as my answer. :D

[Missster.Freeman]

Ah, excellent choice. It's almost as long as my answer. :DLOL Well, there's not much more I could add to your summary of season three. Everything you've described is what I loved about this season.

[melligator]

Season Two - partly because yes, thank gawd for Boxleitner. Three would be a close second.

I made this a while back:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v395/draculesti/silly/sinclair.jpg

[Andron]

Season Two - partly because yes, thank gawd for Boxleitner. Three would be a close second.

I made this a while back:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v395/draculesti/silly/sinclair.jpg

Love the pics :lol: Now that's subtle acting! ;)

My favourite is season three, it had everything that made Babylon 5 great!

[SeaBee]

I've voted S3, but it was a close run thing.

I would have gone S4 or S5, but I didn't like what they did to Garibaldi who was my favourite character until the alchoholic stuff came in.

[CaptainCharisma]

Well for me, its season 3 (thats a shock), although season 4 would be a very close second with season 2 coming in third, after that...I don't know. Season 4 could have been the best if it only hadn't been for the network ruining JMS's vision.

Season 3 was just so awesome with all the revelations, the breaking away from Earth, the Shadow War heating up, the new cast members. I even enjoyed Avalon, in fact I thought it was awesome to see G'Kar help out, and then see the way he acted throughout the rest of the episode.

Melligator's post shows why season 1 wasn't the best. Thankfully he was only there that first year (besides his guest appearances of course), and thankfully Sheridan took over. There were a few moments when I did like Sinclair, but him being so emotionless most of the time really dragged things down. Now Mr. Sinclair "Get the hell out of our galaxy.", sorry couldn't resist.

[Redhooks]

I thought season 3 was also the best with season 4 very close behind it.

[Jumper_One]

season 4 :D

[maneth]

3, with 4 a close second. Although they were all good, some just less stellar than others.

[nx01a]

I should vote for s4 but then I think back and I go, "Wait a minute... There was a Minbari civil war in there somewhere, wasn't there?" S4 was great, but incredibly rushed.

When I think of my favourite B5 episodes, they all come from S3. We all agree it's the best episode ever: Z'ha'dum! The episode that proved JMS had it all figured out from the start: War Without End. The episode that made Earth officially the Bad Guy and Delenn our avenging angel: Severed Dreams. The coming of the White Star: Matters of Honor. The huge fight of the season: Shadowdancing. My personal favourite B5 episode: Interludes and Examinations (Vorlons vs Shadows, Sheridan vs. Kosh. Kosh vs. Shadows. :().
So I'd have to vote Season 3.

[Descent]

I should vote for s4 but then I think back and I go, "Wait a minute... There was a Minbari civil war in there somewhere, wasn't there?" S4 was great, but incredibly rushed.

'Incredibly rushed' is right! The Shadows were defeated/gone after just 6 episodes.... and I was like "Wait... that's it??". It felt like there could've been a season's worth of stories right there. :S

If Season 4 (or 5) was all about the buildup to taking back Earth and had all that stuff with Garibaldi and Mars, it probably would've been my absolute favorite of the B5 seasons. So basically what I'm saying is that I wish JMS could've made the seasons the way he wanted to in the beginning. :P

[DigiFluid]

Thank god for Bruce Boxleitner/Sheridan. I don't know about you guys, but I felt like he was 100 times better than O'Hare/Sinclair.

I'd have to disagree :) Sinclair brought a maturity and authority to the role of station commander that Sheridan never could. Something about Boxleitner was a bit too....*Kansas* for me. It's just something about the words that fits.

Don't get me wrong, I came to like Sheridan and really appreciate his character arc and all that was done with him. I just like Sinclair a little bit more :)



As far as the poll itself, holy cow I really have to think about it!

[Skydiver]

seasons 3 and 4 was where you started to get payoffs on the plots. season 5...was a victim of network manipulations (for any that dont' know, s5 wasnt' going to happen, so jms wrapped up the plot, then at the 11th hour tnt picked it up, so jms had to scramble for plot for s5)

when i bought the dvd's, i rewatched the episodes, and you see so much more that you missed the first time around. you realize that significant people in episode 18 really showed up in episode 8, but they were unremarkable then

as a series, it's best seen to watch it once, then go back and rewatch it. you 'get' so much more of the plot that way

[Colonel Rebel]

Season 3. I loved the whole arc leading up to B5 declaring its independence.

[Descent]

I'd have to disagree :) Sinclair brought a maturity and authority to the role of station commander that Sheridan never could. Something about Boxleitner was a bit too....*Kansas* for me. It's just something about the words that fits.

Don't get me wrong, I came to like Sheridan and really appreciate his character arc and all that was done with him. I just like Sinclair a little bit more :)

I'm not implying that I hate him or anything, I just like Sheridan a lot more. Boxleitner had a lot more acting range and there was a certain authority to the way he talked. Dude just has the voice for awesome speeches, I guess. :P

As with Season 1 itself, I definitely came around to liking Sinclair more than I did the first time I tried to watch the show. :)

[sinderg]

Agree with OP
season 5 felt forced.

I Kind of felt that after season 4 the story was finished. Anything beyond tarnished the whole.

[Cold Fuzz]

Agree with OP
season 5 felt forced.

I Kind of felt that after season 4 the story was finished. Anything beyond tarnished the whole.

Due to behind-the-scenes network voodoo, season 5 never aired as intended. If PTEN had not gone under at the time, the season 4 finale would have been Intersections in Real Time, not The Deconstruction of Falling Stars. The end of season 4 and the beginning of season 5 would have looked like this:

419. No Surrender, No Retreat
420. The Exercise of Vital Powers
421. The Face of the Enemy
422. Intersections in Real Time

501. Between the Darkness and the Light
502. Endgame
503. Rising Star
504. No Compromises
505. Strange Relations
...

Consequently, the telepath plotline at the beginning of season 5 would not have been so drawn out and would have quite a bit of momentum from the beginning of the season.

Oh well, I still like season 5 for various reasons, not the least of which is completing the saga. I understand why lots of people didn't like the year 2262 that much but I'm just grateful that it happened at all with B5.

[DigiFluid]

I finally gave in and voted for season 4, even though it was a huge tossup between that and S3.

It was just something about the "we are here to place President Clark under arrest" :)

[Cold Fuzz]

It was just something about the "we are here to place President Clark under arrest" :)

That speech Sheridan gave near the end of Endgame was phenomenal. Emotionally, it was justice falling down like a bag of hammers of over Clark's three years of crap. It was three seasons of hell capped by some badly-needed vindication. ;)

[Saquist]

MY GOD
This Season three is EXCELLENT!!! I remember watching this but I FORGOT...was so fixated on Deep Space NINE.

I HAVE to scoff at the RE-ENVISIONING of Star Trek's Original Series....It's Babylon 5 that MUST have the make over.

I just watched the greatest episode of SCI FI action drama EVER....
Babylon 5 sceeded from Earth along with Epsilon and two captains and fought in an EPIC exchange at B5...

AMAZING...I was holding my breath the entire time....
UNFRICKIN-BELIEVABLE!!!! What a Great Show!

[Cold Fuzz]

MY GOD
This Season three is EXCELLENT!!! I remember watching this but I FORGOT...was so fixated on Deep Space NINE.

I HAVE to scoff at the RE-ENVISIONING of Star Trek's Original Series....It's Babylon 5 that MUST have the make over.

I just watched the greatest episode of SCI FI action drama EVER....
Babylon 5 sceeded from Earth along with Epsilon and two captains and fought in an EPIC exchange at B5...

AMAZING...I was holding my breath the entire time....
UNFRICKIN-BELIEVABLE!!!! What a Great Show!

The Lurker's Guide to Babylon 5 rated "Severed Dreams" as the highest by the fans at the time. Definitely a gigantic turning point in the series. There are more "wham" episodes coming at the second half of season 3. By the way, "Ceremonies of Light and Dark" marks the exact halfway point of the series.

[DigiFluid]

Nah, I don't really want to see anyone touch B5....though I'm rather content to just forget most of the first half of season 5.

[Saquist]

The Lurker's Guide to Babylon 5 rated "Severed Dreams" as the highest by the fans at the time. Definitely a gigantic turning point in the series. There are more "wham" episodes coming at the second half of season 3. By the way, "Ceremonies of Light and Dark" marks the exact halfway point of the series.


It was heart stopping....
Might I say the build up for the episode and others have been perfect.
WHY can't SGU be like this? Great Scott, SG-1 and Atlantis were never this good.

I never appreciated this show like I should have.

[Cold Fuzz]

It was heart stopping....
Might I say the build up for the episode and others have been perfect.
WHY can't SGU be like this? Great Scott, SG-1 and Atlantis were never this good.

I never appreciated this show like I should have.

I think jms understands the concept of the arc (build up of tension and then release) better than most sci-fi writers I've seen. He's used to telling stories on a wide canvas and broad scale so he's used to bringing disparate elements together and mixing them effectively.

I don't know how far you've gotten with season 3, but the last 3-4 episodes are incredible. "Shadow Dancing" is my favorite in season 3, along with "Severed Dreams." You'll see why. :cool:

[DCK]

Season 3, but only by a little. Season 4 is also simply amazing.

But B5 lost a little bit of drama once the plots started to dry up. The Shadow-arch was the main driver of the entire show, it doesn't matter what JMS had as intentions. They were the brutal force, the mystic powers. It pushed the entire show to new heights. I am still amazed at the tension and build up season 3 and. It went on for a good while into season 4 and then for me, the mysticism were dripping off, a little at the time.

B5 had the wonder of something like a "UFO phenomenon" inside a sci fi show which already had aliens and spaceships. It was amazing. That G'Kar speech to Sinclairs girlfriend in season, that was great. When he picked up the ant.

Still my fave show.

[Saquist]

I think jms understands the concept of the arc (build up of tension and then release) better than most sci-fi writers I've seen. He's used to telling stories on a wide canvas and broad scale so he's used to bringing disparate elements together and mixing them effectively.

I don't know how far you've gotten with season 3, but the last 3-4 episodes are incredible. "Shadow Dancing" is my favorite in season 3, along with "Severed Dreams." You'll see why. :cool:

I really loved it...
I'm on season 5...
It's not good...something radical happened....it's just not same.
Also I do have issues with how the Vorlon shadows thing was resolved.

I've disliked getting to know the enemy to closely and that's what happened with the shadows...it de-demonizes them as evil and they did that in season four...and then...demonized the vorlons...and it all ended up as sort of ...trading places...neutral....

I didnt like that.
But it was still good. I wanted a more climactic ending...

Season 5 is just flat....


Season 3, but only by a little. Season 4 is also simply amazing.

But B5 lost a little bit of drama once the plots started to dry up. The Shadow-arch was the main driver of the entire show, it doesn't matter what JMS had as intentions. They were the brutal force, the mystic powers. It pushed the entire show to new heights. I am still amazed at the tension and build up season 3 and. It went on for a good while into season 4 and then for me, the mysticism were dripping off, a little at the time.

B5 had the wonder of something like a "UFO phenomenon" inside a sci fi show which already had aliens and spaceships. It was amazing. That G'Kar speech to Sinclairs girlfriend in season, that was great. When he picked up the ant.

Still my fave show.

I think you said it better than I did.

In fact season 5 seems like SGU....with out the interesting characters like Londo and GKar.

[Cold Fuzz]

I really loved it...
I'm on season 5...
It's not good...something radical happened....it's just not same.
Also I do have issues with how the Vorlon shadows thing was resolved.

I've disliked getting to know the enemy to closely and that's what happened with the shadows...it de-demonizes them as evil and they did that in season four...and then...demonized the vorlons...and it all ended up as sort of ...trading places...neutral....

I didnt like that.
But it was still good. I wanted a more climactic ending...

Season 5 is just flat....



I think you said it better than I did.

In fact season 5 seems like SGU....with out the interesting characters like Londo and GKar.

The Shadows weren't exactly "de-demonized" as you put it. They believed themselves to benevolent in that what they were trying to guide the younger races to something greater. Their methods were absolutely atrocious though. Empty promises, lies, and encouraging the deaths of billions for the sake of evolution is still terrible. For them, they believed that evolutionary and technological superiority equated with moral superiority which was simply not the case.

The Vorlons essentially fell into the same pattern of behavior, albeit with vastly different objectives. If you really want insight into what the Vorlons are really like, ignore Kosh. Kosh was definitely not typical of his species. Ulkesh, Kosh's replacement, is much closer to what the Vorlons as a whole were truly like. In the novel "To Dream in the City of Sorrows" (a novel that's considered canon) it's revealed that Ulkesh had a rather adversarial relationship with Ambassador Sinclair. Consider also why the Vorlons would ever conscript someone as monstrous as Sebastian into their services. The Technomage trilogy by Jeanne Cavelos (also considered canonical) reveals in-depth insights into both the Vorlons' and Shadows' thinking process and motives. They are eerily similar in ruthlessness.

Jms had said in an interview that if people were shocked at the "turn" the Vorlons took in season 4, then they fell for the Vorlons' trap of manipulation. They were always as ruthless as the Shadows in their ways. For both races the ends always justified the means, which is why it was absolutely necessary for both of them to be expelled from the galaxy.

Season 5 had its strengths but suffered from a lack of momentum going into the season. If PTEN didn't fold near the end of season 4, the end of season 4 and the first half of season 5 would have been markedly different. Season 5, as the show's predefined denouement, was pretty much what I expected it to be.

[Tachyon]

I go with the third season. Though, second season is not far behind. :)

[Stewart5]

I prefer the Thirds to the second, mainly as I was in shock at losing Sinclair(who I liked). But by the 3rd I saw how awesome Sheridan was. AND his hairdo wasn't as bad. :lol:

[AndSoItBegins]

Glad to see season three is winning rather convincingly.

[nx01a]

How can a season with 'Interludes and Examinations', 'Severed Dreams' AND 'Z'ha'dum' NOT win?! :D

[DigiFluid]

Season 5 is just flat....
It is a little flat, especially the stretch with Fabio the Freaking Telepath.

But after that, it's solid. The last batch of episodes of the series is just fantastic.

[nx01a]

I agree entirely. even if no one else did, at least Lyta thought Byron was fabulous!

Once we hit 'Phoenix Rising' and they die and, Bester started screwing with Garibaldi again, things started to get great again! Well, by great I mean 'horrible for some characters', but great for us viewers. :D

[BayGateScape]

season 3 for sure, that was an epic season out of all of them.

[Pitry]

Yes, the main problem with season 5 is the stupid elves telepaths plot. The second half of season 5 - the fall of Centaury Prime - is brilliant.

Season 1.... is only watchable after you've seen the rest of the show. I cannot begin to remember how many times I started B5 and stopped until I found myself watching from season 3.

Season 2 is when things really start to move, but it isn't til season 3 you really get the pay-off.
It's brilliant and it's sad and it;s fascinating (and it has Marcus! although his better episodes are probably in season 4).

Other than the er, rushed ending of the Shadow War, season 4 is really good. Also, I would never have imagined I'd be able to watch a whole episode that includes only Sheridan, but Intersections in Real Time is actually quite the brilliant episode.

So, pressed between seasons 3&4, but in the end it's 3 for me.

[Cold Fuzz]

Yes, the main problem with season 5 is the stupid elves telepaths plot. The second half of season 5 - the fall of Centaury Prime - is brilliant.

Season 1.... is only watchable after you've seen the rest of the show. I cannot begin to remember how many times I started B5 and stopped until I found myself watching from season 3.

Season 2 is when things really start to move, but it isn't til season 3 you really get the pay-off.
It's brilliant and it's sad and it;s fascinating (and it has Marcus! although his better episodes are probably in season 4).

Other than the er, rushed ending of the Shadow War, season 4 is really good. Also, I would never have imagined I'd be able to watch a whole episode that includes only Sheridan, but Intersections in Real Time is actually quite the brilliant episode.

So, pressed between seasons 3&4, but in the end it's 3 for me.

Marcus had some brilliant moments in season 4. Racing Mars was hilarious, especially that scene in the transport tube with Franklin and Captain Jack. :)

He had some pretty good moments in season 3 as well, especially when we first see him having that budding romance with Ivanova.

Season 1 in retrospect wasn't so bad I think. Though some episodes were less watchable than others, it set up so many things that I personally didn't realize would be so big later. The plotline with Neroon and the warrior caste definitely comes to mind.

[maneth]

Season 1 definitely improves with every rewatch for that very reason.

[Pitry]

Marcus had some brilliant moments in season 4. Racing Mars was hilarious, especially that scene in the transport tube with Franklin and Captain Jack. :)

He had some pretty good moments in season 3 as well, especially when we first see him having that budding romance with Ivanova.

True, very true. I guess that rewatching season 3 now, I'm painfully aware of the number of "Marcus is cool. Honest. He's worthy of this show and being in this position! Honest!!" episodes there are :)


Season 1 in retrospect wasn't so bad I think. Though some episodes were less watchable than others, it set up so many things that I personally didn't realize would be so big later. The plotline with Neroon and the warrior caste definitely comes to mind.

It started with season 1? Yikes, I need to rewatch that season. Most of the foreshadowing there I remember, but not Neroon...

(which reminds me, speaking of season 3 and Marcus... :D)

[Cold Fuzz]

True, very true. I guess that rewatching season 3 now, I'm painfully aware of the number of "Marcus is cool. Honest. He's worthy of this show and being in this position! Honest!!" episodes there are :)



It started with season 1? Yikes, I need to rewatch that season. Most of the foreshadowing there I remember, but not Neroon...

(which reminds me, speaking of season 3 and Marcus... :D)

I remember the first time I watched season 3's "Exogenesis." Marcus could be summed up with Dr. Franklin incredulously saying that they were both surrounded, outgunned, and possibly facing death, and yet somehow Marcus was interested in making a play for Ivanova. :lol: When I first saw that scene, I just couldn't stop laughing I was in stitches. Granted it wasn't the best episode of season 3 but it was a great Marcus moment. That and Garibaldi barking at him: "Don't you ever shut up?!"

The storyline with Neroon and the Warrior Caste began with season 1's "Legacies." In the context of the first season, it looks like another standalone episode. In the context of the entire series though, it set in motion the storyline that eventually culminated with the Minbari Civil War in season 4. :eek: Wonderful storyline.

[Homer 120]

Season 3 - 8.9 - Fave Episode ''AND THE ROCK CRIED, NO HIDING PLACE''
The very last minutes of that episode alone gave this season a high rating for me. GREAT twist with G'Kar and Londo. Londo also truely shined in S3, as did G'Kar both in character development and their scenes together were terrific!

[HPMom]

Re: Favorite Season?

Favorite is season 3. The writing was incredible and I loved the character development.

Least favorite is season 5.
I really don't like what they did with Lyta and Lennier's characters. Both of them were great characters, but I feel they completely changed them in season 5. In previous seasons I especially loved the way Lennier was so spiritual and calm until someone tried to hurt Delenn, then he was scary tough! In season 5 he was just pathetic. As others have said, I didn't like Lochley. It was like they said, "put in generic tough broad" here to replace Ivanova. Rather than have a poor copy of the original they should have gone with a completely different character to replace her.

[maneth]

I agree with you HPMom. That said, even the 1st and 5th seasons of B5 are better than the best of a lot of shows out there.

[HPMom]

You are so right. I'm trying to get a SciFi loving friend to watch the show because it is arguably the best written SciFi show ever. Season 5 had some really great moments and I enjoyed it, I just didn't like some of the extreme portrayals of a few of the characters I came to know and love.