Dialing an active gate

[Womble]

Suppose a Stargate is activated by an INCOMING wormhole. I get to the DHD and dial OUT. Will it cancel the incoming wormhole immediately, or will the gate not respond until the incoming wormhole "runs out"?

[Pharaoh Hamenthotep]

You would have to wait for the incoming wormhole to disengage.. if it only took an outgoing wormhole to cancel out an incoming one Sokar's attack on the SGC (when they had Apophis prisoner) and Anubis' attack when Jonas joined SG-1 wouldn't have been nearly as effective...

[The Mastage Kidd]

Once their dialing sequence is complete the connection is made, and you can't dial an active gate.

[lordaric]

but if the incoming dialing sequence isn't complete you have until it is complete to dial out

[K^2]

Yeah, as long as wormhole is established, you can't dial. Also, the wormhole remains established as long as there is power supplied from either side. So either side can force the wormhole to remain active. There does appear to be a time limit, however.

[The Mastage Kidd]

but if the incoming dialing sequence isn't complete you have until it is complete to dial out

Except you wont know they're dialing in. When the gate is dialed from off world all the chevrons light up at once, and that's the only warning you get. The connection is made before you know to counter it. (I know we've seen them light up one by one on incoming gates, but that really makes no sense and smacks of being a production error rather than the way the gate works.)

[escyos]

maybe when you dial one symbol every gate that has that symbol as its first will light up and so forth until you get to just one gate. beside there wouldnt be many gates that have the same symbols in the same order.

or maybe the gate doesnt 'contact' the other gate until the 2nd or third symbol is dialled.

[Maj_Cliffhanger]

Except you wont know they're dialing in. When the gate is dialed from off world all the chevrons light up at once, and that's the only warning you get. The connection is made before you know to counter it. (I know we've seen them light up one by one on incoming gates, but that really makes no sense and smacks of being a production error rather than the way the gate works.)

Not quite right. There IS some warning. Yes, I agree the few times we've seen the chevrons light up one at a time with an incoming wormhole is inconsistent with the majority of times when they all light up at once - however, the inner ring does spin and rumble when a connection is about to form. Which is of course why Walter can always warn us of an incoming wormhole and close the iris in time. How long it spins seems to be determined by how fast the other gate is dialed. This however doesn't help with the original question as once the inner ring starts to spin it won't stop* until the connection is complete or canceled, ie "Solitude" when Sam tried to dial Earth from the Antarctic. While there is some warning, there's no way to stop an incoming wormhole by dialing out unless you know in advance when someone is going to try and can beat them to it - ie "Serpent's Song" and Sokar.

My two cents. SHRUG!

*CORRECTION: in "Serpent's Song" when we were dialing out the inner ring was spinning, but Sokar beat us to the punch and completed his dialing first - overriding our sequence and establishing an incoming wormhole. This would indicate to me that it IS possible to block an incoming wormhole if you can dial out faster than whoever is dialing in - but it's certainly not likely unless they are being slow and lazy, and you are really fast!

[K^2]

*CORRECTION: in "Serpent's Song" when we were dialing out the inner ring was spinning, but Sokar beat us to the punch and completed his dialing first - overriding our sequence and establishing an incoming wormhole. This would indicate to me that it IS possible to block an incoming wormhole if you can dial out faster than whoever is dialing in - but it's certainly not likely unless they are being slow and lazy, and you are really fast!

They knew in advance that he'd be dialing in as soon as connection broke. That was his whole strategy. So they knew to start dialing as soon as connection dropped.

And yeah, you get a brief warning while connection is being established, but that's after the remote gate has already homed in on you. That is, the 7th chevron is attempting a lock already. That doesn't give you enough time to dial out. Just barely enough time to raise the iris before the wormhole is fully formed, plus a brief delay for time it takes matter stream to reach your end.

Basically, if someone is dialing in, iris is the only protection you got.

[The Mastage Kidd]

maybe when you dial one symbol every gate that has that symbol as its first will light up and so forth until you get to just one gate. beside there wouldnt be many gates that have the same symbols in the same order.

or maybe the gate doesnt 'contact' the other gate until the 2nd or third symbol is dialled.

Because that makes zero sense. Here's an analogy using the closest pece of tech we have (in terms of operation) to a stargate: the telephone. When I start dialing my phone, every home with the same first numbers isn;t alerted that I might be dialing them and starts to ring. The other phone only rings once my dialing sequence is completed. To use another analogy, that's like if every person on your facebook friends list who's name starts with an a was contacted telling them you might be emailing them if you start to type "aaron spelling into your "to" line.
And to use and examples from the show:
O'NEILL
(whispering)
Look, I know I should know this by now. I swear it'll be the last time I ask. These wormholes we go through, they're not always there, right?

CARTER
(keeping her voice low, too)
No, sir. It can only form between two open gates.

So one gate dials the other, then the other opens. It should be instantaneous. Not having it act like that makes absolutely no sense.

But I did come up with my own fanwank on why this might happen. If you dial to a planet who's gate doesn't have enough power to open, it's been established that the receiving gate will draw energy from the dialing gate to form the puddle. So the chevrons lighting might just be a "charge" indicator, telling you the gate is powering up to receive an incoming wormhole. That would explain why most of the times this has happened it has been on the earth gate. But in this scenario, by the time the chevrons start lighting the other gate already does in fact have a connection to yuor gate, and your gate is too underpowered to dial out anyway, so the answer remains the same.

*CORRECTION: in "Serpent's Song" when we were dialing out the inner ring was spinning, but Sokar beat us to the punch and completed his dialing first - overriding our sequence and establishing an incoming wormhole. This would indicate to me that it IS possible to block an incoming wormhole if you can dial out faster than whoever is dialing in - but it's certainly not likely unless they are being slow and lazy, and you are really fast!

Actually that proves my point. Sokar could just cut into their sequence because they hadn't completed dialing. Therefore there was no wormhole to block.

[K^2]

You can only interrupt dialing if you manage to dial the whole sequence first, and open the wormhole. And if you go back to that episode, that's exactly what Sokar did the first time that SGC tried to dial out. The second time, SGC guys adjusted dialing program to dial that particular address faster, allowing them to dial out faster than Sokar dialed in.

[escyos]

Because that makes zero sense. Here's an analogy using the closest pece of tech we have (in terms of operation) to a stargate: the telephone. When I start dialing my phone, every home with the same first numbers isn;t alerted that I might be dialing them and starts to ring. The other phone only rings once my dialing sequence is completed. To use another analogy, that's like if every person on your facebook friends list who's name starts with an a was contacted telling them you might be emailing them if you start to type "aaron spelling into your "to" line.
And to use and examples from the show:
O'NEILL
(whispering)
Look, I know I should know this by now. I swear it'll be the last time I ask. These wormholes we go through, they're not always there, right?

CARTER
(keeping her voice low, too)
No, sir. It can only form between two open gates.

So one gate dials the other, then the other opens. It should be instantaneous. Not having it act like that makes absolutely no sense.

But I did come up with my own fanwank on why this might happen. If you dial to a planet who's gate doesn't have enough power to open, it's been established that the receiving gate will draw energy from the dialing gate to form the puddle. So the chevrons lighting might just be a "charge" indicator, telling you the gate is powering up to receive an incoming wormhole. That would explain why most of the times this has happened it has been on the earth gate. But in this scenario, by the time the chevrons start lighting the other gate already does in fact have a connection to yuor gate, and your gate is too underpowered to dial out anyway, so the answer remains the same.



Actually that proves my point. Sokar could just cut into their sequence because they hadn't completed dialing. Therefore there was no wormhole to block.

i never actually said anythign about a wormhole, perhaps they communicate through subspace. my theory actually accounts for what we see in the show.

[The Mastage Kidd]

i never actually said anythign about a wormhole, perhaps they communicate through subspace. my theory actually accounts for what we see in the show.

Even if i concede that stargates operate through a subspace link, it still makes no sense. Again, that's like every person on your friends list whose name starts with a getting a warning that they might be getting an email from you when you type "[email protected]" into the to line.

The ancients wouldn't design a device that would warn people for no reason.

My "charging" theory is just as good a way to explain it without making the ancients look stupid.

And as I'm not beyond stealing someone's research, this page is filled with someone's general nitpicks about the first 8 seasons. Every time the chevrons light up one by one like this it is marked (and sometimes when they light all at once, but not always since that's how it is supposed to work).

There are only 4 episodes in the first 8 years where this happened (Enigma, Shades of Grey, New Ground, Gemini). All other times it was all at once. It happens infrequently enough we should prbably ignore it and note it as a production error in the same vein as multiple planets having the Abydos address, gates that use one of the 38 contellation ymbols as poo, and the at appearing on other gates. (not to mention the atlantis gate no longer having its poo in all subsequent appearances.)

[escyos]

Even if i concede that stargates operate through a subspace link, it still makes no sense. Again, that's like every person on your friends list whose name starts with a getting a warning that they might be getting an email from you when you type "[email protected]" into the to line.

The ancients wouldn't design a device that would warn people for no reason.

My "charging" theory is just as good a way to explain it without making the ancients look stupid.

And as I'm not beyond stealing someone's research, this page is filled with someone's general nitpicks about the first 8 seasons. Every time the chevrons light up one by one like this it is marked (and sometimes when they light all at once, but not always since that's how it is supposed to work).

well you cant really compare things like email and telephone to a stargate. maybe the subspace network can be a little bit slow (like the internet) and so every now and then, a gate will suddenly recieve all the information at once.

[QUOTE]There are only 4 episodes in the first 8 years where this happened (Enigma, Shades of Grey, New Ground, Gemini). All other times it was all at once. It happens infrequently enough we should prbably ignore it and note it as a production error in the same vein as multiple planets having the Abydos address, gates that use one of the 38 contellation ymbols as poo, and the at appearing on other gates. (not to mention the atlantis gate no longer having its poo in all subsequent appearances.)[/QUOTE]

all gates pretty much have the 39 symbols, except those who have their own poo (haha..poo) dont forget that some gates could have been moved to other planets and those poo might not have been for that planet in the first place. what do you mean by the bold line.

[K^2]

POO is like the "From" line in the e-mail. On the low level, it probably doesn't even need to be correct. Gates, however, require you to initiate correct glyph, perhaps as added security. We know that the gate operates fine with the same POO even when moved to a different star system. So POO doesn't encode location, just the gate. We can pretty much forget about POO glyph and talk only about the 6 destination glyphs when talking about anything like this.

well you cant really compare things like email and telephone to a stargate.

Sure you can. There is every reason to suspect that the address routes the wormhole for connection, much like IP does, and that the information between gates (distant ones, at any rate) can only be communicated once wormhole is established. Furthermore, a single byte of IP does not tell you how to route to machines that have that byte in the right place, no more than one glyph of address tells you how to route information to all gates with that glyph in the address. First piece of information that goes through is probably the POO of the initiating gate, as a form of a handshake. This can be likened to establishing of the TCP/IP connection. Once connection is established, the chevrons light up, and the "event horizon" for deconstitution/constitution of matter is established. Send/receive buffers are also present on both ends, much like in TCP/IP, and quite possibly with an error-checking and acknowledgement system as well.

Now, I don't know what kind of system would be optimal for Stargate network in reality, but creators of the show seemed to have had something very similar to TCP/IP, so using it as a basis of analysis would be entirely appropriate.