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    Wraith ships shouldn't explode.

    Two reasons...

    1st...they are made of biomatter. That stuff isn't flamable, certainly not explodable.

    2nd...the mass involved. A ship the size of a hive ship would see tiny explosions at best. Whoever drew up the graphics of hive ships getting killed was operating off of a smaller ship mentality. Things that large don't explode, they break up. Most of the time they just suffer damage and keep on moving.

    We see this problem with most space combat in stargate. Metal or biomatter bulkheads don't simply explode, they are torn apart by weapons fire or internal explosions.

    This isn't Star Trek with the magical 'dissintegrate' setting that completely ignores where the matter would go. Though it would never happen, I wish they'd go back through the series and fix the visuals much the way Star Trek did with the original series.
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    #2
    They were operating on two principles:
    1: one big explosion is cheaper to do the cgi. Using smaller explosions you would have to animate the blowing up of the vessel in much more detail, which is more time consuming, which means far more expensive.
    2: Big explosions got a bigger wow factor.
    Last edited by knowles2; 08 April 2009, 01:39 PM.

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      #3
      Originally posted by knowles2 View Post
      They were operating on two principles:
      1: one big explosion is cheaper to do the cgi. Using smaller explosions you would have to animate the back up of the vessel in much more detail, which is more time consuming, which means far more expensive.
      2: Big explosions got a bigger wow factor.
      More realistic destruction gets the 'Wow' factor, not the overused, illogical fireball.
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        #4
        But exploding is way cooler than no exploding

        On a serious note.. you have a good point, but we cant ask that everything is totally realisitic. Without the explosions the team wouldn't have survived a few of those battles.
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          #5
          Not to mention the fact that combustion is caused when you combine oxygen with another substance... the sheer volume of oxygen required for some of these fireballs you see in space would be astronomical. The ship is simply unable to carry that much oxygen.

          The explosions are there, really, because they look cool.
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            #6
            They are 99% organic matter but what about the energy? They use lots of energy in engines and weapons and shields.
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              #7
              Originally posted by Aer'ki View Post
              Two reasons...

              1st...they are made of biomatter. That stuff isn't flamable, certainly not explodable.
              It all has to do with where the reactors, how many of them there are, what the reactors really are in fact ; they could be giant mitochondrias spread across the ship, tapping subspace -as a derivative of hyperspace, where hyperspace in one but a layer of subspace- but be more or less inefficient in doing that, and store great amounts of energy.
              Or there are more traditional fuel reserves.
              Darts seem to stock energy and destroying volleys of them can lead to chain destructions. Eventually, it's possible that what we saw in No Man's Land was the chained destruction of Darts going back into the docking bay and hitting whatever pipe is fueling the Darts, or power conduit. Maybe it triggered a localized back draft.

              Anyway, I don't see any problem with ships exploding as long as there's either volatile fuel, or immense reserves of energy contained at a given moment, in some place.

              2nd...the mass involved. A ship the size of a hive ship would see tiny explosions at best. Whoever drew up the graphics of hive ships getting killed was operating off of a smaller ship mentality. Things that large don't explode, they break up. Most of the time they just suffer damage and keep on moving.
              They break up unless the energy released by internal explosions is massive.
              Considering that even kiloton or megaton nukes detonated inside could not cause so much destruction on their own, and that vapourizing such immense masses of armoured and reinforced superstructure (we could easily be in the billions tons of matter for ships being 11 km long) you'd need energies in the hundreds of gigatons at the very least to turn these ships into gas.

              Obviously, this energy has to come from somewhere, and it can only be from the ship's own systems or reserves.

              We see this problem with most space combat in stargate. Metal or biomatter bulkheads don't simply explode, they are torn apart by weapons fire or internal explosions.
              Only if the weapons are weak. We do see internal and surface explosions not pulverizing ships from time to time. Although they're wrong in showing gasoline explosions in space (fireballs with clear limits and which slow down, instead of expanding clouds of gas and hot matter omnidirectionally and certainly not slowing down), there's nothing wrong showing minimal damage, if minimal yields were applied.

              This isn't Star Trek with the magical 'dissintegrate' setting that completely ignores where the matter would go. Though it would never happen, I wish they'd go back through the series and fix the visuals much the way Star Trek did with the original series.
              I don't recall them showing matter disappearing in Stargate in the way it happens for Trek ship -- and it's explained in Trek ships, as they use phasers, which tend to disintegrate matter via some technobabble mean (usually called NDF, Nuclear Disruption Force, very similar to the effect obtained with the zat third shot, although the Trek effect is clearly more exothermic).
              In Trek, if the phaser banks or whatever holds the "juice" for phasers is broken, it's nothing surprising so see hulls "burn" up as if they were "eaten".

              We've seen hiveships and Ha'taks being destroyed and turned into large drifting sections and clouds of debris of various sizes (The Hive, Full Circle).
              We've also see debris fields where generally had previously been fighting, either not a long time ago or eons ago (Camelot, Trinity).

              When the damage was greater or when the ship were containing far greater energies or, perhaps, carrying lots of naqahdah, we have also seen ships being turned into miniature suns.
              This happened a lot for hiveships and Ha'taks.
              Remember the destruction of Ra's ship? Or Heru'ur's? Or even Anubis or, even better, Apophis' supership, which illuminated space from thousand of kilometers away?

              The only clear rule is that if a ship is going to be largely vapourized, literally, there has to be a lot of light as long as there's a ton of matter brought to temperatures of millions of degrees.




              If I had to complain about explosions, aside from the gasoline in space syndrome, it's quite the lack of flashes. Even a hit on a naqahdah hull, there should be at least be as small flash before the *cough* fireball *cough* starts to blossom.
              As for nukes in atmosphere, assuming Earth-like dimensions and air composition, in general, I'd greatly invite VFX makers to take a look at nuclear calculators on internet, notably this one, to get a rough clue about the ranges of thermal radiation (the immediate increase of temperature, over large radii, by anything hit by electro-magnetic radiations which are transparent to air but stopped by solids), air blasts, fireball dimensions AND fireball duration, which is often messed up (Family Ties, First Strike), and that a planet is a globe, so any explosion, for a given yield, will look bigger when located in the middle of the sphere (closest point on the surface, from the camera) than on the planet's edges (distant horizon).
              Last edited by Mister Oragahn; 08 April 2009, 03:17 PM.
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                #8
                They shouldn't explode, in space there should be no sound, ships don't stop moving if you cut the engines, and any decent ship shouldn't have exploding consoles if it gets anything but a direct at that location.

                It looks cool, get over it.
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                  #9
                  a hive needs insane powergeneration just to MOVE. let alone FIGHT. we're not talking about some boat or a fighter or so. its a supermassive ship.

                  biomatter is flammable. it very much is. and there's plenty of oxygen.

                  and untill we find out what powers a hive, we cant correctly assume what makes it go boom.

                  and BTW, in The Siege they were nuked. that causes big boom.

                  just as in EATG

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                    #10
                    Originally posted by thekillman View Post
                    and BTW, in The Siege they were nuked. that causes big boom.
                    In Siege, they used Genii nukes, which could not be higher than a couple of kilotons really. That's certainly going to make a pretty internal explosion, but it's falling extremely short of the energy necessary to damage, let vapourize such a quantity of matter.
                    The Al'kesh is not a warship - Info on Naqahdah & Naqahdria - Firepower of Goa'uld staff weapons - Everything about Hiveships and the Wraith - An idea about what powers Destiny...

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                      #11
                      IIRC, we didnt see the genii nuke go off (btw mckay was finishing it, so maybe he improved the yield a bit), but we did see the deadalus' nuke go of inside the second hive, although for just a moment before the whole hive went boom. The explosion, which we should assume was atleast a gould buster (~1gt yield), made a patheticly small explosion (which looked like a flash), encompasing maybe 1/4-1/8th of the hive, at which point the hive went boom from a secondary explosion, which makes alot of sense, considering how much power sg ships use for weapons alone (hive ships most of all), even the primitive prometheus' hyperdrive could blow up a us state.


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                        #12
                        seeing as the smallest bit of naquahdah can already significantly enhance a nuke, taking a bit of it from a Naq generator should do the job, not incalculating the fact that they mightve brought naquahdah with them

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                          #13
                          Look, if you detonated a bomb inside a hive ship, then that section of that deck should theoretically dissinegrate into an exploding debris field that will fly into nearby decks. Those decks will be damaged, warped, etc, while the debris cloud pushes through halls and doors etc further into the ship.

                          On the outside you should see small geysers where the debris cloud busted out 'window' or docking ports or hangar bays...but the vast majority of the ship will be undamaged.

                          It's like how a two by four piece of wood can penetrate concrete if accelerated fast enough...but put enough concrete blocks in a row and it goes nowhere.

                          YOU CANNOT HAVE A ONE BLAST KILL FOR A HIVE SHIP. The ship is just too big.

                          Even if you had the reactor blow, it will only destroy a piece of the ship, maybe enough to break the ship in two or three pieces, but there won't be more damage than that.

                          What you see are 'plot weapons' that give quick, time saving kills for our heroes to accomplish within the 43 minutes slotted for the show. It would make the Wraith a lot more menacing if they were more realistic and showed how darn hard it is to kill a ship that big.

                          Drones should not be able to kill it very fast, due to its size and biomatter makeup, which further works into the fact of how the wraith defeated the Lanteans. Yes, their big energy weapon cut the hive ship in half(satelite) and that is believable, aside from the aftwards explosion, but drones wouldn't do much given their nature, aside from targeting specific systems to knock out (which they would be very good at).
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                            #14
                            Originally posted by Aer'ki View Post
                            Two reasons...

                            1st...they are made of biomatter. That stuff isn't flamable, certainly not explodable.

                            2nd...the mass involved. A ship the size of a hive ship would see tiny explosions at best. Whoever drew up the graphics of hive ships getting killed was operating off of a smaller ship mentality. Things that large don't explode, they break up. Most of the time they just suffer damage and keep on moving.

                            We see this problem with most space combat in stargate. Metal or biomatter bulkheads don't simply explode, they are torn apart by weapons fire or internal explosions.

                            This isn't Star Trek with the magical 'dissintegrate' setting that completely ignores where the matter would go. Though it would never happen, I wish they'd go back through the series and fix the visuals much the way Star Trek did with the original series.
                            With all the scientific inconsistencies in Stargate, especially in space travel/combat and with the whole inaccuracies that actually arise from even having fireballs and explosions in space, this is what you choose to complain about? Stargate is fantasy, not sci-fi because there's too many mistakes and fantasy shows can do whatever they want.

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                              #15
                              If you really want to get technical about this stuff well i got one for you. None of the sound effects in space are realistic as there is no sound in space. Sound is created by vibrations through the air but as there is no air in space, there are no vibrations. The thing is i don't care. If it looks or sounds cool do it. It is science FICTION is it not.
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