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ShadowMaat
May 10th, 2004, 07:22 PM
This thread is for those who broke no compromises, those who loathe ship in any form on the show, be it between main characters, secondary character, imaginary characters or the very ships, themselves (although you really gotta wonder what kind of crazies would object to Sam/Luke ship.) :P

Topic is not open for discussion, it's for anti-ship folk to vent, to offer words of comfort, and to maintain their own view of the show even if it means ignoring weddings and pregnancies. ;)

Have at it, folks. :P

Gategrrl
May 10th, 2004, 08:03 PM
Topic is not open for discussion, it's for anti-ship folk to vent, to offer words of comfort, and to maintain their own view of the show even if it means ignoring weddings and pregnancies. ;)

Have at it, folks. :P


LOL, thanks, Shadowmaat -- was wondering if you were going to start one up. :P

ShadowMaat
May 10th, 2004, 08:06 PM
LOL, thanks, Shadowmaat -- was wondering if you were going to start one up. :P

Always happy to oblige another demented individual. ;)

I'm not completely anti-ship, but I could live quite happily without there being any active ship on the show. And other than possibly Thor's ship, I'm not too keen on all the other ships. :P

Gategrrl
May 10th, 2004, 08:22 PM
Always happy to oblige another demented individual. ;)

I'm not completely anti-ship, but I could live quite happily without there being any active ship on the show. And other than possibly Thor's ship, I'm not too keen on all the other ships. :P

Well, I have to say, I am NOT keen on the Prometheus. I mean really. It's butt-ugly. It takes away from the Stargate itself as a mode to adventure.

And relationship ship...well...thar be dragons in that ocean. I'm not completely anti-ship either -- not 100%. I appreciate a romance that actually contributes to the ongoing story-line (Drey'auc, for instance), or Sha're. And in fact, both of those women were only in a smattering of the shows - Drey'auc was in one, but what happened to her had enormous repercussions for Teal'c. Sha're appeared in three shows, and again, her appearances had a great effect on Daniel. Unfortunately, Sara O'Neill was only in one show, but her image still shows up in Jack's house, so one can't say that he's entirely over her. (not that it comes up directly)

I object to ship that has no bearing on the on-going story. And 'ship' that detracts from the story-telling, not adding to it. That goes for any ship between major characters, ship that has nothing to do with the Stargate/SGC and is featured too much (Chimera, Sam/Pete anyone?) in an episode...and I hate it when a ship requires that to make it happen, the characters involved have to twist themselves into position.

I'd much rather see adventures through the Stargate that require some kind of continuity, thoughtfulness and PLOT. :cool:

ShadowMaat
May 10th, 2004, 08:25 PM
and I hate it when a ship requires that to make it happen, the characters involved have to twist themselves into position.

I strongly resent watching a character I know and love be portrayed as having brains of oatmeal because of some guy. Or girl. If you have to make a character uncharacteristic in order for the ship to work, then you're doing something wrong.

JakeDeuxPointZero
May 10th, 2004, 08:34 PM
I, for one, don't like music created for a show to suddenly exist in that show's reality due to ship. What I mean, of course, is Sam whistling the SG-1 theme... and also the communicators from Power Rangers, but that's not important.

Also... I think if the creators absolutely must (which I sure as heck hope they don't), then the ship between Sam and Jack should be tried and FAIL. They suddenly realize they make better friends, and that's that.

I happen to be a fan of spaceships, though.

ShadowMaat
May 10th, 2004, 08:41 PM
I happen to be a fan of spaceships, though.

Then you aren't allowed on this thread. :P Just kidding...

I'm not sure what I think of the humming in the elevator thing. Part of me finds it funny, part of me finds it incredibly jarring. It's too bad they didn't make up a Wormhole X-treme! theme, then Sam could've hummed that AND kept continuity AND revealed herself as a closet Wormy (or X-tremist, or whatever the fans are called). ;)

I do, however, hate that there is a Sam/Jack shippy theme because every time you hear it, no matter how innocuous the scene might appear, you know it's meant to be shippy because of the music. Granted, there's usually lighting and camera angles involved, too, but once you hear that music... *gag*

Supreme Commander Thor
May 10th, 2004, 11:50 PM
And other than possibly Thor's ship, I'm not too keen on all the other ships. :P
Yes, my ship is quite the awesome site... As is any ship in our fleet actually... don't be too hard on the prometheus though... it is a good first step, and now has bad mo-jammer shields and weapons since I upgraded them for you.

thor39
May 11th, 2004, 06:39 AM
I hate all shipper woo sam this jack that....
For cryin out loud I hope oneill goes for anise and sam goes for pete just to wipe the smile off the shippers faces :D

Skydiver
May 11th, 2004, 09:28 AM
I hate all shipper woo sam this jack that....
For cryin out loud I hope oneill goes for anise and sam goes for pete just to wipe the smile off the shippers faces :D

hate is such a strong emotion...and not one that i personally would waste on a tv show. There are lots of folks around that like different aspects of the show than i do, and i don't hate any of them, heck the show would be pretty dang boring if everyone liked the exact same things

thor39
May 11th, 2004, 09:55 AM
dislike then maybe?
that's ok isn't it i dislike their attitude towards sam and jack ;)

Shipperahoy
May 11th, 2004, 09:59 AM
Actually even to say that you dislike *people* is against forum rules. It falls into the personal insults category. It's perfectly fine to say that you hate, loathe, find disgusting, want it vanished to the 3rd circle of He**, etc when talking about ship, but to say you hate or dislike shippers is against forum rules.

thor39
May 11th, 2004, 10:08 AM
OK sorry
Umm...I have different tastes to shippers and I don't understand why they ship?
Is that ok? :p

ShadowMaat
May 11th, 2004, 10:13 AM
There are lots of folks around that like different aspects of the show than i do, and i don't hate any of them

Oh, I can think of a few folks I... severely dislike for personal reasons, but I don't actively hate the shippers- hard to do when some of my friends are actively shippy- but I do get very tired of some of the attitude developed by some of them. The smugness, the superiority, the "ship is good, ship is here, nyaa nyaa" mentality and the nasty comments that some of them make towards unshippy things or especially the vitriol targeted at anyone or anything that gets in the way of their chosen ship.

There are characters on the show that I don't like, some of them are even very popular, but that doesn't mean I want to see any of them killed off, crucified or otherwise demonized- not on the show and certainly not in fandom. Believe it or not, I can dislike something with a quiet passion. ;)

Back on target, though... Is it safe to say that while ship is not something we want to see on Stargate, one of the bigger reasons for that is because of its gross mishandling of the subject by the writers? Because I think that's one of my bigger issues with it. I've seen subtle ship written before and when it's done right it's a beautiful thing- especially since its subtlety means that those who don't wanna see it don't have to- but the writers for Stargate seem to have adopted a lead-fisted approach and are making it so blatant that it's nearly (or even totally) impossible to ignore it. Instead of hard-hitting plotlines with occasional quips and looks, we "forget" the action and drama so that the characters can make moopy faces and talk about their "feelings". That I don't like.

One you start down the shippy path, forever will it dominate the show's destiny. Consume it, it will.

Shipperahoy
May 11th, 2004, 10:14 AM
Perfect thank you very much.

darklilac
May 11th, 2004, 11:24 AM
I think it's non sense to have an anti-ship thread since there's only one ship in the show and it's the JS.
Any other type of romance it's minimal and the few besides the JS are done in a good way, like Pete/Sam or Teal'c/Ishta.
Fans hate the JS because it splitted the team and transformed Sam and Jack into two selfish stupid characters.
The majority of complaints are against the JS exclusive ship that left Teal'c and Daniel out of it.

thor39
May 11th, 2004, 12:02 PM
Have a look at the who do you ship forthread there are a great many for example Daniel and Janet

Dani347
May 11th, 2004, 12:08 PM
... Is it safe to say that while ship is not something we want to see on Stargate, one of the bigger reasons for that is because of its gross mishandling of the subject by the writer

Well, I think definitely recently this is the case. The writers can't write ship. And, also having it between two people you don't see any chemistry with, especially when it affects the dynamic of the team is jarring. Shippers can see it without non shippers seeing, so why is it necessary to make it so that everyone can see ship, especially since it has nothing to do with the show?

Since I think they write ship badly, I wouldn't want to see Pete, except for maybe an episode, just to show that he's still there, and I'd rather he be integrated into the Stargate storyline, rather than be just "Sam's boyfriend." It's too risky with these writers to assume that they'll be able to keep it up.


Have a look at the who do you ship forthread there are a great many for example Daniel and Janet

I think the post was specifically addressing the writers putting ship on the show, not pairings that fans would like. As far as I know, the writers never shipped Daniel and Janet. MS and TR played up some things, but it wasn't a canon part of the show. So far, if you're looking at ship as the literal abbreviation of a relationship, there's only been a few. Daniel/Sha're, Jack/Sara, Teal'c/Shaun'ac (spelling). Maybe Sam/Pete. If we use ship as anything ranging from other characters hinting of something more, the only one that has been sanctioned by the writers is Jack/Sam.

ShadowMaat
May 11th, 2004, 12:32 PM
I think it's non sense to have an anti-ship thread since there's only one ship in the show and it's the JS.

If you think the thread is nonsense then by all means, feel free not to post here. As I said in my original post, the subject is not open to debate, here. If you want to discuss the pros/cons and various shades of gray, then you can revive the ship discussion thread (http://forum.gateworld.net/showthread.php?t=88).

Yes, S/J is the most blatant example, but for some, even "outside" relationships like Sam/Pete or Daniel/Sarah are too much and while I love Pete, I can see where they're coming from. The writers have, in my opinion, developed a very depressing habit of centering stories/scenes around romantic entanglements and ignoring any important action/plots around them. I watch Stargate for the stories, not for the soap.


Since I think they write ship badly, I wouldn't want to see Pete, except for maybe an episode, just to show that he's still there, and I'd rather he be integrated into the Stargate storyline, rather than be just "Sam's boyfriend." It's too risky with these writers to assume that they'll be able to keep it up.

Unfortunately, Dani, I don't think the writers are capable of doing any justice to the Pete character whatsoever. Not with the "cloying boyfriend" attitude that some of them seem to have. They've already made up their minds about him, and what they've decided isn't good. For that reason, I'd be quite happy if we never saw Pete again.

epiphany
May 11th, 2004, 01:19 PM
Have a look at the who do you ship forthread there are a great many for example Daniel and Janet

That is probably because the moderator who started the thread very conveniently left out an option to vote for Daniel/Sam ship. There are some true D/J'ers but in my experience alot of writers/supporters simply like it so they can pair off D/J because it keeps to keep them occupied in Jack/Sam ship stories), so they don't become 3rd wheels. Very convenient that he managed to leave out a very popular pairing like Daniel and Sam though--which has at least a couple yahoo groups(one with over 300 members) and many websites and videos devoted to it.

That said I am not for ANY ship within the show. I don't want ship between team members. I don't ship focused on Team members and other people. Daniel/Sha're was carried from the film and it really was kept very much in the background except for about 3 or 4 episodes over nearly 3 seasons. Same with Teal'c and his wife and Jack and Sara(Jack and Sara is the only one I come close to wanting on the show in the future).

So I am definitely Anti-ship.

Dani347
May 11th, 2004, 01:58 PM
There are some true D/J'ers

Me! But, I belong here, because I didn't want it to be something that was official on the show. I only like it in fanfic.

Gategrrl
May 13th, 2004, 07:41 PM
Me! But, I belong here, because I didn't want it to be something that was official on the show. I only like it in fanfic.

Yes, that's where I think ship belongs -- at least the inappropriate ship cough :: J&S :: cough. and other in-SGC pairings between the main characters.

In ship, the characters can get as sappy and as badly/cliche written (or well written) as the fans want/have the ability to write. At least if it stayed in fic, the rest of us who don't like it, wouldn't be afflicted with it, and we wouldn't have to suffer through badly written/acted ship on the show itself.

SallyK
May 17th, 2004, 08:11 AM
Back on target, though... Is it safe to say that while ship is not something we want to see on Stargate, one of the bigger reasons for that is because of its gross mishandling of the subject by the writers? Because I think that's one of my bigger issues with it. I've seen subtle ship written before and when it's done right it's a beautiful thing- especially since its subtlety means that those who don't wanna see it don't have to- but the writers for Stargate seem to have adopted a lead-fisted approach and are making it so blatant that it's nearly (or even totally) impossible to ignore it. Instead of hard-hitting plotlines with occasional quips and looks, we "forget" the action and drama so that the characters can make moopy faces and talk about their "feelings". That I don't like.

One you start down the shippy path, forever will it dominate the show's destiny. Consume it, it will.

Exactly, that is very much how I feel. I know that a lot of shippers have seen something between Sam and Jack right from the beginning of the show, but no-one had to see it if they didn't want to. As it is now, I really think the writers are being just as unfair to the shippers as to everybody else - they keep teasing, while saying it'll never happen. I know "all publicity is good publicity" but I really don't see what they think they can achieve by annoying all the show's fans.

SallyK

ShadowMaat
July 12th, 2004, 07:33 PM
I'm dragging this post back out of the depths because the more I read and the more I see, the less interested I am in ANY sort of ship on Stargate.

Ship is another way for fandom to become even more factionalized and hateful than it already is. It divides us instead of bringing us together. You're either WITH ship, or against us! And if you're against, may the gods have mercy on your soul.

TPTB play the sides against each other mercilessly. One cutesy "things aren't as they seem" comment here, another cutesy "don't pour the champagne yet" comment there... Things are bad enough without us being goaded to greater extremes. Say what you mean and mean what you say or don't say anything at all. That's MY opinion, right there.

I'd also like to know when Stargate became all about ship. What happened to great storylines and intriguing characters? No. These days it's all ship, ship, ship. "Sam loves Jack!" "Pete deserves to die!" "Sam loves Pete!" "Pete deserves to win Sam!"

Give me a bloody break. How about having some real, solid plotlines? I thought I saw some in New Order. I would like to THINK that great storylines will continue... and that people will actually SEE them instead of focusing SOLELY on who made goo-goo eyes at whom.

Affinity sounds like it could be a great ep. Lots of potential there. Even a bit of- dare I say it?- intrigue! But what is it that people are talking about? Ship! Screw the fact that there's a great story there, nevermind that it's about a character who tends to get neglected. No, it's all "OMG! How could they!" "AAhhh! I'm gonna vomit!" "How can she even consider it??"

Let's try and remember the PLOT, people!! You know? That incidental thing that happens between moments of abject ship??

And for pity's sake, there are more than three characters on the cursed show. Stargate isn't all about a love triangle! If you want that, go watch reruns of Friends. Let Stargate be itself!

Anthro Girl
July 12th, 2004, 08:13 PM
I'd also like to know when Stargate became all about ship.
I'd like to know this too, but I suspect the answer I'd find would be that it all lies in an individual's interpretation of what they're seeing on the screen. I tend not to read discussions about upcoming episodes, but when I login and read discussions about a broadcasted episode, I'm always shocked :eek: about what people interpret as something called "shippy"; i.e., Carter was happy to see O'Neill alive ---> OMG! They're in love! She hates Pete! They're gonna get married! WTF? Where the hell did that come from? Could it possibly be that one team member was just happy to see that another made it through the latest disaster? Oh heck no, that would be too simple...too easy...too much like real life. I must be an idiot... :rolleyes: I guess people looking for soap opera are either going to see it, create it or complain that it isn't there.


How about having some real, solid plotlines? I thought I saw some in New Order. I would like to THINK that great storylines will continue... and that people will actually SEE them instead of focusing SOLELY on who made goo-goo eyes at whom.
Again, people see what they want to see...or don't see what they think they're entitled to see. It never ceases to amaze me. Of course there are relationships between characters on the show. D'oh...it's a ensemble cast. What are they supposed to do? Ignore each other? Where those relationships go is - or should be - part of the character development within the greater picture of the Stargate plot and that's in the hands of the writers and actors who develop these characters.


Affinity sounds like it could be a great ep. Lots of potential there. Even a bit of- dare I say it?- intrigue! But what is it that people are talking about? Ship! Screw the fact that there's a great story there, nevermind that it's about a character who tends to get neglected. No, it's all "OMG! How could they!" "AAhhh! I'm gonna vomit!" "How can she even consider it??"
I couldn't have said that better myself. I was even trying to avoid the big spoilers for Affinity before the fallout vomited all over my threads. ;) Now that it's been totally spoiled for me, I have to say that I'm really looking forward to it and I have to say that I'm half-hoping that some of the 'shippers get screwed. After some of the discussions I've seen lately I'm just feeling mean that way.

FWIW, I'm not pro- or anti-ship of any stripe (except for the Furlings and anything...but that's another story). I'm pro-Stargate, pro-character-development and probably more pro-really-cool-stuff-blowing-up than I should be. I just love the show because it's fun and I keep tuning in every week to see what crazy stuff they'll be up to next. I sort of miss the days when all I had to tweak my interest was the little blurb at the end of the weekly episode. I guess I only have myself to blame for that. Maybe my standards aren't as high as some others, but at least I'm not losing sleep over it or debating whether or not I should burn my DVDs. :S

uknesvuinng
July 12th, 2004, 08:31 PM
I'm dragging this post back out of the depths because the more I read and the more I see, the less interested I am in ANY sort of ship on Stargate.

Ship is another way for fandom to become even more factionalized and hateful than it already is. It divides us instead of bringing us together. You're either WITH ship, or against us! And if you're against, may the gods have mercy on your soul.

TPTB play the sides against each other mercilessly. One cutesy "things aren't as they seem" comment here, another cutesy "don't pour the champagne yet" comment there... Things are bad enough without us being goaded to greater extremes. Say what you mean and mean what you say or don't say anything at all. That's MY opinion, right there.

I'd also like to know when Stargate became all about ship. What happened to great storylines and intriguing characters? No. These days it's all ship, ship, ship. "Sam loves Jack!" "Pete deserves to die!" "Sam loves Pete!" "Pete deserves to win Sam!"

Give me a bloody break. How about having some real, solid plotlines? I thought I saw some in New Order. I would like to THINK that great storylines will continue... and that people will actually SEE them instead of focusing SOLELY on who made goo-goo eyes at whom.

Affinity sounds like it could be a great ep. Lots of potential there. Even a bit of- dare I say it?- intrigue! But what is it that people are talking about? Ship! Screw the fact that there's a great story there, nevermind that it's about a character who tends to get neglected. No, it's all "OMG! How could they!" "AAhhh! I'm gonna vomit!" "How can she even consider it??"

Let's try and remember the PLOT, people!! You know? That incidental thing that happens between moments of abject ship??

And for pity's sake, there are more than three characters on the cursed show. Stargate isn't all about a love triangle! If you want that, go watch reruns of Friends. Let Stargate be itself!
Go Shadow, Go!

Sorry... got caught up in the moment. But I agree, while ship can be nice, even if not essential to the plot, it should never be the focus of the show. And some episodes *cough*Grace*cough* seemed written entirely around ship. We get a weak plot, with 37 minutes of Sam thinking about her life that summarizes into "She needs a man". This is Strong Independant Woman Making it in a "Man's" World? I'm not a feminist by any means, but if I were a woman, I'd be insulted by the implication I needed a man to be emotionally complete. As a man, I'm annoyed by people that think it odd that I make no big effort in the dating scene. I'm perfectly happy without a girlfriend, and while I'd certainly like to be married and have a family some day, I don't NEED it. I can't think of any person I've ever known that "needed" someone, just people who were emotionally immature and merely thought they needed someone. And to see someone that was so matured previously turned into a child in such a manner bugs me to no end, even if it is just TV.

S8 "New Order" Spoilers









Personally, I still like the idea of Pete, it was even important to the C(?) plot involving Sam and Fifth. Fifth wanted her to love him and spend her life with him, so who did he choose to impersonate? Pete! Not Jack, but Pete, which suggests to me that Fifth, looking through her whole mind, sees that she's far happier being with Pete than with any other man. And if Sam swings around to being portrayed as secretly pining for Jack again, I'm gonna be uber-annoyed. We need S1 Sam to sneak in from an alternate reality and replace S7 Sam, and get back to the stuff that makes Stargate Stargate, mythology, the stargate (not just the big round thing, but all the things its affecting), and really big explosions! :)

gange57
July 13th, 2004, 02:36 AM
I think this thread is a great idea. I have been duped a few times by clicking on threads titled, "OMG! This can't be true!" or "Stargate is officially over" blah, blah, blah. Expecting to read something along the lines of the discontinuation of Stargate or something serious that affects the outcome of the series, I am instead duped into something about the return of Pete? LOL. If the TPTB ever decided to eliminate all the shipping, I couldn't be happier. I don't understand the obsession the shippers have with Stargate. This isn't a soap opera, it's Sci-Fi.

aAnubiSs
July 13th, 2004, 03:51 AM
SHiP SUX!

ShadowMaat
July 13th, 2004, 04:10 AM
Well, speaking personally, I don't think ship itself sucks, exactly, but the way it's written can definitely suck and more often than not, the reaction of certain types of fans can make ship an absolute misery for everyone else.

GateGipsy
July 13th, 2004, 05:03 AM
My favourite kind of 'ship' (if that is what it is) is the non-ship kind. UST if you like. One of my top favourite movies is First Contact, and the chemistry between Picard and Lily was brilliant. And yet, refreshingly, they didn't fall into the trap of 'romance'.

See, that's why Sam and Mackay work so well!

Stargate Agent
July 13th, 2004, 08:12 AM
Stargate needs starships in the show. How would they defend themselves if enemies came through space??

My fav kind of ship is the Enterprise E from First Contact and the other ST:TNG movies. Really tight looking design.

FieryHands
July 13th, 2004, 02:22 PM
Hmm, never noticed this thread before...eveeerrrryyyy interesting. Personally I do not go in for the Jack/Sam romance. Whatever feelings they may or may not have for each other, it is very unlikely that the writers would do anything with it beyond what's been laid out. In an ideal shippy world, they'd try and fail (as someone already mentioned in this thread) and move on. But it'd never happen. So I don't care. There's a hint here and there that could be interpreted but the show generally speaking, doesn't try to keep romantic relationships afloat from episode to episode.

I would not call myself anti-shipper, but romance in stargate doesn't interest me as it is not a character driven show. The stargate universe does not swirl around the romance between Sam and Jack, or any other romance for that matter, although one or two may impact.

It did surprise me they gave Sam a boyfriend. You'd think they'd have done that a little *earlier*. I mean really, all these guys drooling over her and nothing comes of it...because of her supposed unspoken love for O'Neill? Sure... I bet she's got that Aeryn curse, every boyfriend/possible boyfriend dies somehow...hmm, maybe Pete will be magically immune. As if it matters, right?

Oh yeah, the Picard/Lily thing...beautifully done. A great example of how relationships can be compelling without being needlessly romantic. In many ways, those kind are far deeper than the average, some cast member falls for someone who manages to end up dead by the time the tag scenes roll around. That, or leaves never to be heard from again.

But anyway, not against it, it just isn't something built heavily into the show. And in a show like this, certain romances could seriously ruin character growth if badly written.

Jo Raumo
July 13th, 2004, 02:44 PM
the reaction of certain types of fans can make ship an absolute misery for everyone else.

The reaction of certain types of fans can make any development an absolute misery for everyone else. Ship fans certainly don't have a corner on that market.

Yes, Stargate fandom as a whole can be a polarized and particularly nasty place. But I suspect it has as much to do with the age of the fandom as it does with any particular issue that divides us. And any clear resolution is bound to make the divisions worse and the conversations nastier, rather than better.

Jo Raumo

ShadowMaat
July 13th, 2004, 05:17 PM
The reaction of certain types of fans can make any development an absolute misery for everyone else. Ship fans certainly don't have a corner on that market.
Good point. The Daniel Wars would be another good example. However, since this is an anti-ship thread, I figured I'd stick to shippy examples lest things devolve rapidly into off topic-ness. ;)




Yes, Stargate fandom as a whole can be a polarized and particularly nasty place. But I suspect it has as much to do with the age of the fandom as it does with any particular issue that divides us.
You mean that fandom in general is acting like a petulant eight-year-old? ;) Yep, I'll buy that, too... :P

Vala
July 14th, 2004, 12:05 PM
Hmm, never noticed this thread before...eveeerrrryyyy interesting. Personally I do not go in for the Jack/Sam romance. Whatever feelings they may or may not have for each other, it is very unlikely that the writers would do anything with it beyond what's been laid out. In an ideal shippy world, they'd try and fail (as someone already mentioned in this thread) and move on. But it'd never happen. So I don't care. There's a hint here and there that could be interpreted but the show generally speaking, doesn't try to keep romantic relationships afloat from episode to episode.

I would not call myself anti-shipper, but romance in stargate doesn't interest me as it is not a character driven show. The stargate universe does not swirl around the romance between Sam and Jack, or any other romance for that matter, although one or two may impact.

It did surprise me they gave Sam a boyfriend. You'd think they'd have done that a little *earlier*. I mean really, all these guys drooling over her and nothing comes of it...because of her supposed unspoken love for O'Neill? Sure... I bet she's got that Aeryn curse, every boyfriend/possible boyfriend dies somehow...hmm, maybe Pete will be magically immune. As if it matters, right?

Oh yeah, the Picard/Lily thing...beautifully done. A great example of how relationships can be compelling without being needlessly romantic. In many ways, those kind are far deeper than the average, some cast member falls for someone who manages to end up dead by the time the tag scenes roll around. That, or leaves never to be heard from again.

But anyway, not against it, it just isn't something built heavily into the show. And in a show like this, certain romances could seriously ruin character growth if badly written. What she said :)

I am anti ship, on Stargate. Though if I wasn't I'd probably make no sense in the ship I'd choose so for the moment I am anti Ship. Daniel and Shara(sp) was the only stargate 'ship' I ever had, I think.

aAnubiSs
July 14th, 2004, 12:06 PM
My favorite type of ship is the one in space, with weapons and a crew!=)

Vala
July 14th, 2004, 12:08 PM
My favorite type of ship is the one in space, with weapons and a crew!=)
yes The Daniel Jackson was cool LOL ;)

Ugly Pig
July 14th, 2004, 01:49 PM
Okay, I'm replying to a comment made two months ago. I know that's a little lame, but I never read this thread until now.

I'm not sure what I think of the humming in the elevator thing. Part of me finds it funny, part of me finds it incredibly jarring. It's too bad they didn't make up a Wormhole X-treme! theme, then Sam could've hummed that AND kept continuity AND revealed herself as a closet Wormy (or X-tremist, or whatever the fans are called). ;)
Ah, but there is a Wormhole X-treme theme! IIRC, it plays over the trailer Hammond and SG-1 watch at the beginning of the episode, and again during the "bloopers" at the end.

ShadowMaat
November 25th, 2004, 03:58 PM
I'm bringing this thread to the fore again because it seems there are a number of people on the anti S/J ship who don't seem to mind ship on Atlantis. I, on the other hand, loathe the idea beyond all reason.

I've seen what kind of crap TPTB pulled on SG-1 with ship, I don't want to see it happen on Atlantis, too. As far as I'm concerned, TPTB are too bloody incompetent to make main character ship palatable in ANY form on EITHER show. They're too ham-handed with it and make a nasty muck job of everything. They destroy a show in order to make ship and they don't seem to be capable of making and/or KEEPING it subtle. They've ruined SG-1 for me to the point where I basically can't watch it. I don't want to be turned off Atlantis, too, because they're so full of themselves and their brilliant abilities to write ship. They suck. They shouldn't be allowed to write romance because IMO, they don't have the first clue what real romance is. Here's a newsflash for you, boys: there's more to true love than just sex. Reduce the characters to the lowest common denominator and you bring the rest of the show down with it. This, in case you aren't sure, is a very bad thing.

While Teyla and weir are both becoming more palatable characters for me, I think Teyla is about as original and interesting as a piece of dry toast and the Shep/Teyla angle is just as bland and unappetizing.

Weir is improving slightly as a character. She seems to be growing a backbone and seems to have a bit more depth than I felt she had at the beginning. HOWEVER, I see even less romantic chemistry between her and Shep than I see between Shep and... say, his puddle jumper. As far as I'm concerned, their "relationship" is STRICTLY one of work. It's the chemistry of two colleagues who don't necessarily mesh very well and who may have generic feelings of concern for the other, but no more so than they'd feel for anyone else. IF it's amped up at all it's because each is integral to the running of Atlantis and they both know it. Shep is upset at the idea of Weir getting killed because she is the leader of the expedition. Weir is worried about Shep because he is the ranking military guy on Atlantis. The loss of either would be (IMO) devastating to the mission and more importantly to the morale of the survivors. THAT is about as far as I'm willing to grant with the emotionality of the characters. Colleagues, maybe reluctant friends, but absolutely never ever anything more than that. And if I start to see TPTB playing up the ship between them, I will stop watching because it will mark the beginning of the end of the show. At least for me.

I love McKay, but I'm not going to be subjected to mindless juvenile dreck just to see him.

NightGloom
November 25th, 2004, 05:16 PM
Well, I definitely don't want to see any ship in the show between team members. However, I must say the ship between Daniel/Sha're was OK because it carried over from the movie and everything. I wasn't a shipper for them though, it was just like "OK, it's there, whatever."


I don't want any ship on Atlantis either. The whole idea would just be idiotic to stick ship in Atlantis- it didn't work for SG-1, why should it work there? Plus, I don't see any of the characters having the right chemistry for it while being able to stick to the personality of the character.

ShadowMaat
November 25th, 2004, 05:20 PM
I don't want any ship on Atlantis either. The whole idea would just be idiotic to stick ship in Atlantis- it didn't work for SG-1, why should it work there? Plus, I don't see any of the characters having the right chemistry for it while being able to stick to the personality of the character.
Ah, but TPTB think they're brilliant and they think the ship on SG-1 works, so it's probably only a matter of time before they taint Atlantis with their "brilliance". :P

Will agree with you about the lack of right chemistry between the main cast. Don't get me wrong, they have great chemistry, they all play well off each other, but none of it lends itself to romantic involvement. At least not in MY interpretation of events. ;)

NightGloom
November 25th, 2004, 05:26 PM
I agree, they do have chemistry, just not the right kind. And right now I can't see any of them acting all lovey-dovey or even angsty while being able to keep the integrity of the character and the show alive. ((Except maybe Teyla, cause to us "Amuricans" she still doesn't have too great of a character, some of that stuff might actually liven it up a bit...))

ShadowMaat
November 25th, 2004, 06:02 PM
I think McKay has lots of angst potential, but not in a romantic sort of way. He's already had to deal with a couple of harsh situations and especially after events in Defiant One, I think there's some good stuff there.

And yes, I know about shippy-ish spoilers for upcoming eps and I'm not too keen on it, but we'll see what happens and at least it isn't main character ship. Yet.

Greesha
November 25th, 2004, 06:08 PM
i'm not against all ship; i just don't think it works on a show like Stargate, because it is a show about the team rather than the individual characters. Shipping between main characters changes the team dynamic. i don't mind the odd Sam/Jack reference, because there is some attraction there, although, IMO, they would never act on it. That's why i liked "Grace"; it acknowleged that an attraction existed, but that they would never act on it and it was pretty much over. On the other hand, i hate episodes where ship is shoved in my face, like in "Inauguration" when Kinsey pulls that whole "well obviously there's some illicit relationship going on" thing.

Back to the team dynamic... i strongly believe that the main reason SG-1 has lasted 8 seasons is because it didn't try to introduce ship. If ship is a main part of the show, the show starts to revolve around the sexual tension between the characters. And since you can't have unresolved sexual tension forever, eventually the characters get together, and then the show dies because there's no sexual tension anymore. This is true especially of shows based around two main characters who inevitably fall in love, because there aren't any other characters to get interested in once the tension is gone. This isn't necessarily a bad thing; it just means that the show won't have the longevity of a team-oriented show like Stargate.

Erik Pasternak
November 25th, 2004, 07:07 PM
I'm against ship. I don't want anyone together. I like when sparks fly, as a lot of humor can emerge from that, but beyond that, nothing!

Chevron_nine
November 25th, 2004, 08:26 PM
I don't mind the occasional hints of ship thrown into occasional episodes, I usually don't even notice them, but the one thing that I can't stand is the thousands of ship-related posts on this forum. I can't even visit the General Discussion area without having shipper and thunk threads thrown in my face. I wish there was a feature where we could block threads we don't want to see.


Edit: in case it's not clear I have nothing against this anti-ship thread, just the real ship threads:)

LoneStar1836
November 26th, 2004, 12:01 AM
HOWEVER, I see even less romantic chemistry between her and Shep than I see between Shep and... say, his puddle jumper.
Oh come on, you have to give Shep and the PJ more credit than that. They do have great on-screen chemistry. ;) And the PJ enjoys making Weir jealous. :D


i'm not against all ship; i just don't think it works on a show like Stargate, because it is a show about the team rather than the individual characters. Shipping between main characters changes the team dynamic.
Exactly, and that is why I disapprove of S/J ship.

Now I don’t mind episodes focusing on individual characters because some of my favorite episodes tended to focus mostly on one character. But when it’s only focusing on that one character to promote ship (such as Chimera), well, half the episode was wasted when it could have been focused entirely on the other half of that episode which I personally found more interesting.

Of course in principle, I also disapprove of S/Pete ship, but not because I don't like Pete but because shipping the main characters in general detracts from my Stargate viewing experience. Though I don't think it necessarily changes the team dynamic. I personally think that it is just wasting episode time when that time could be spent on other aspects that are central to the show's core reason for being created in the first place. Just my opinion.

NightGloom
November 27th, 2004, 09:11 AM
Oh come on, you have to give Shep and the PJ more credit than that. They do have great on-screen chemistry. ;) And the PJ enjoys making Weir jealous. :D


Aw, man, you're right. Sheppard and his puddle jumper do have great chemistry. I hope I'm not becoming a Shep/PJ shipper... Naw!

Easter Lily
December 1st, 2004, 07:09 PM
Now I don’t mind episodes focusing on individual characters because some of my favorite episodes tended to focus mostly on one character. But when it’s only focusing on that one character to promote ship (such as Chimera), well, half the episode was wasted when it could have been focused entirely on the other half of that episode which I personally found more interesting.

I agree... I have no problem with the odd romance especially if it reveals a little bit more about a main character or the Stargate universe (a la Sanctuary, Poisoning the Well). But not when the romance becomes a feeble and misguided attempt to lure female viewers to the fold or to hold their attention. The whole Sam/Jack thing is akin to flogging a dead horse... really, why do they have to keep revisiting this "I-care-about-you-but-I-am-trying-to-pretend-that-I-don't" scenario. Having said that, as a whole the casting has been quite good... and the chemistry between the actors is generally spot on. Although, like many of you, I don't see much romance emerging between Weir and Sheppard or Weir and Teyla. Admittedly, the bantering between McKay and Sheppard is good fun. :D

Of course in principle, I also disapprove of S/Pete ship, but not because I don't like Pete but because shipping the main characters in general detracts from my Stargate viewing experience. Though I don't think it necessarily changes the team dynamic. I personally think that it is just wasting episode time when that time could be spent on other aspects that are central to the show's core reason for being created in the first place.

Hear, hear... I suspect most of us watch sci-fi because of what the genre tries to do... to use allegories or parables set in a different time and a different place that tell us something about the world we live in. If I really wanted to watch a romantic comedy or tearjerker, I could go elsewhere (and I often do). The fact is, Dr Who survived almost thirty years without being romantically involved with any of his companions (until someone came up with the bright idea of making a movie that changed all that) so I doubt many sci-fi fans in general would lose much sleep if romance doesn't feature heavily in our sci-fi shows.
Perhaps it is indicative of the times in which we live in where everything is reduced to freudian slips.

david2708
December 1st, 2004, 07:34 PM
The SciFi genre, I think, is predominatly the domain of the male demographic and i think the romance stuff is indeed just ment to lure female viewers.
I've never noticed a 'romantic' chemistry between Jack & Sam and I still don't. I watched the entire series on DVD in a short space of time and the romance stuff, too me, just seem to come out of no-where. I never noticed any hints or build to it. It was like in one ep someone said, Oh gee I really care about you..." For all the involvement with each other, Sam could have said it to Daniel or Teal'c. i never saw anything with Jack that put her relationship with him on any other plane that the one's she had with Danny and Teal'c.
If she were to have a romance, it should have been with Agent Barret of the dreaded NID. That had story potential for conflicts of interest. Having this Pete guy serves no purpose except to 'romance' the show up for no other purpose that to show a bit of romance and hope it will get female viewers hooked into the sentimentality of it all.
It may work and they may gain female viewers but they'll end up losing their male audience which, like it or not, is there bread and butter.

Dani347
December 1st, 2004, 09:15 PM
The SciFi genre, I think, is predominatly the domain of the male demographic and i think the romance stuff is indeed just ment to lure female viewers.


Which, is totally sexist if that's why they're doing it. As if females weren't watching before D&C. As if females don't like well told stories with interesting characters. That's like saying all men only watch shows with stuff blowing up. (But, tptb seem to think that, too)

I've shipped some people on some shows, but I've also enjoyed shows without a single couple I've wanted to be together. And, just throwing in a romance isn't going to cut it. Especially if I think it's only done because someone has some narrow idea of what all females want.

LoneStar1836
December 1st, 2004, 09:18 PM
The whole Sam/Jack thing is akin to flogging a dead horse... really, why do they have to keep revisiting this
Because they enjoy flogging a dead horse. ;):D TPTB seem to get some little kick out of tearing at the hearts of fandom that actually pays attention to ship in the show. They torture the S/J shippers with the whole Pete thing and then it seems (possible S8 “Threads” spoilers)they are doing it again in Threads with Jack and that other woman while at the same time fanning the anti-ship flames by simply making ship a focus of an episode that I really DO NOT WANT SHIP IN. I’ve been waiting forever for the Daniel arc of Threads, and it shamelessly gets tossed in with ship. And the Sam/Pete shippers aren’t probably going to be very happy after that ep. Poor Pete.


I doubt many sci-fi fans in general would lose much sleep if romance doesn't feature heavily in our sci-fi shows.
I don’t. :D But I bet you couldn't tell. ;) Though I did love the Aeryn/John ship on Farscape, but I initially didn’t start watching the show because of that factor. I happened to catch a few shows at the very tail end of season 2 and the characters and setting of the show is what initially attracted me. The ship just happened to come with the package, but the show set out from the beginning with that aspect incorporated into the premise of Farscape. Stargate did not.


The SciFi genre, I think, is predominatly the domain of the male demographic and i think the romance stuff is indeed just ment to lure female viewers.
Well it doesn’t lure this female so I guess I’m not pegged as the so-called stereotypical female viewer. (No offense to any shippers if you’re lurking about cause the stereotypical female would have their TV glued to Lifetime. :p) We’re not all that shallow though we do seem to populate and enjoy the shallow threads here. ;) So guilty as charged on that account.


It may work and they may gain female viewers but they'll end up losing their male audience which, like it or not, is there bread and butter.
I got to disagree with you there about male viewers being the “bread and butter” of Stargate. :p Overall more males probably watch Stargate, but I’d venture to say the female viewing demographic is not that much smaller. Now I have nothing to back that up, but I just don’t think males constitute the core viewing audience of Stargate. They may tend to be the core of Sci-fi in general, but Stargate has its fair share of female fans who watch the show for various reasons. Ship included. *blah*

Hathor999
December 2nd, 2004, 12:32 AM
The SciFi genre, I think, is predominatly the domain of the male demographic and i think the romance stuff is indeed just ment to lure female viewers.
I've never noticed a 'romantic' chemistry between Jack & Sam and I still don't. I watched the entire series on DVD in a short space of time and the romance stuff, too me, just seem to come out of no-where. I never noticed any hints or build to it. It was like in one ep someone said, Oh gee I really care about you..." For all the involvement with each other, Sam could have said it to Daniel or Teal'c. i never saw anything with Jack that put her relationship with him on any other plane that the one's she had with Danny and Teal'c.
If she were to have a romance, it should have been with Agent Barret of the dreaded NID. That had story potential for conflicts of interest. Having this Pete guy serves no purpose except to 'romance' the show up for no other purpose that to show a bit of romance and hope it will get female viewers hooked into the sentimentality of it all.
It may work and they may gain female viewers but they'll end up losing their male audience which, like it or not, is there bread and butter.

Yeah - the people who are working in the TV industry thinking the same. And that´s the problem: because it´s wrong. There are fans(female or not) who like ship, but they see it no matter what´s on the screen. But there are more than enough females outthere who don´t need romance in their action-adventure shows/movies. I am one of them. It´s not that I have never seen a romantic comendy but I like , that I can go away from it, and enjoy science fiction without this stuff in it. And as Stargate changed without warning from a science-fiction-show about a team of four friends who explore the galaxy and kick some goa´uld butt´s into the "Samantha-Carter-and-Jack-O´Neill-romance-hour" I feeled as I had buyed Cola and found that it was instead rasperry juice. With other words: I FEEL CHEATED!
And I´m sure that it´s may need some time but ultimatly they (and that it´s not only true for Stargate but many shows -look what they have done to JAG)
will not only loose much of their male audience but a big part of their female audience, too.
But the sad thing is that now in the age of "Big Brother" were the only question is who will have, live before the camera, sex with whom, it will change :( :(

NightGloom
December 2nd, 2004, 03:22 AM
What I find amusing is that many of the people who are anti-ship are actually the females. True, many of the shippers are females, although I imagine that there are a few male shippers. I don't know, maybe Charlie/Claire has softened me a little, but I'm starting not to like it as much.

Madeleine
December 2nd, 2004, 05:28 AM
I know that people in the know have statistics that demonstrate this and that, and I suppose it's possible that statistics demonstrate a fondness amongst female viewers for romance, but personally I feel deepy irritated every time I hear that a TV show or film has a romantic element or subplot to attract female viewers. I find it dead patronising. (NB - this is not directed at anyone in this thread, since what has been said in this thread is not "romance attracts female viewers" {grrr} but "TV bods use romance to attract female viewers").

I find it an extension of the idea that ghettoises female characters as "the ones who have romantic issues". And it reminds me of a really horrible bf that my #2 sister had, who said totally seriously of A Few Good Men: "Tom didn't sleep with Demi or even kiss her, so why was she ever in the film? It can't have been for the blokes cos she didn't get her kit off, so it must've just been to trick the women into coming by making them think there would be some romantic slush."

Even if we females do share a prediliction for romance, it's not like it's the only thing we like / need from our TV. And it's not as if any of us would refuse to watch a show that had no romance in it, right? Instead of adding Romance as an extra ingredient to the mix I'd like it if they just made sure the ingredients that are already there, that are essential, are top quality.

Frostfox
December 2nd, 2004, 09:55 AM
I think what TPTB failed to grasp was that Ship fans could make ship out of scenes with out them having to ram it down the rest of the throat of the rest of the fans.

I don't want to speak for the Shippers, because I am not one, but I know that fanfic writers and slash fans and ship fans have for years been 'scribbling in the margins' - writing extra scenes, filling in plot holes and generally, happily, enjoying different aspects of the same series in totally different ways from each other.

Take, for example, that nifty picture of the team sat on the gate ramp which turned up here the other day.
The Ship fans go - 'Oooh, look! Sam's got her hand on Jack's shoulder! Cuteness!'
The Slash fans go - 'Oooh, look! Daniel's sat at Jack's feet, no change there then!'
And the silent majority of Gate fans go - 'Oooh, cool team photo, wonder when it was taken?'
All perfectly resonable responses.

What TPTB have done is raise the expectations of the Shippers, and if they satisfy the Shippers, they piss off, and possibly alienate the rest of us. If they don't satisfy the Shippers, the Shippers have every right to be annoyed now, they've been given half the pie, where is the rest? TPTB are hoist on their own petard.
And I'm not sure what the solution is.

Me? I'm a dyed in the wool slash fan but I'd have no quibble with the last shot of Jack and Sam leaving the SGC to go 'fishing' - we would have fixed it in a fanfic before the screen had faded to black.

Sue, who really wants everyone to be happy.

brihana25
December 2nd, 2004, 10:23 AM
It was like in one ep someone said, Oh gee I really care about you..." For all the involvement with each other, Sam could have said it to Daniel or Teal'c.

That would be Divide and Conquer, wouldn't it? I've always kinda felt the same way about that episode, to tell you the truth. I was a J/S shipper for quite a while, based entirely on the UST between them, and if anything, I felt like the whole "big confession" in D&C makes me think I was imagining things before then. How could there have possibly ever been sexual tension between these two characters when Jack - while making this "confession" - is looking at Sam like she's moldy cheese and Sam - while hearing this "confession" - is looking back at him like a deer caught in the headlights? They both just seem so... bored.

Am I anti-ship now? Yeah, probably. That doesn't mean I'm going to go back and say that I never liked Jack/Sara or Daniel/Sha're. Pre-Season Seven-and-a-half, I was fine with ship. Post-Season-Seven-and-a-half - no. None. Absolutely not. STOP THE INSANITY!

david2708
December 2nd, 2004, 10:41 AM
Unfortunately, I think the stats DO say romance=female viewers. Look at the film Titanic. The reason for it's alltime box office receipt they put down to the females who came for that awful romance stuff in the first two hours and the boys woke up from their slumbers only when the ship began to sink. I did!!

Shipperahoy
December 2nd, 2004, 02:53 PM
I try not to post in here because I know that it's a haven for anti-shippers to go to without having to deal with shippers but rest assured I'm not going to go on about ship. I just want to address the whole throwing in romance to attract female viewers. I will be the first to admit that I'm a romantic and that I enjoy romance in my movies and t.v. shows but I'm totally with Madeleine in that the way t.v. execs go about it sometimes is dead patronising. I'm sure that romance in films and t.v. attracts more women then men, that's pretty much a statistical fact, but the way they advertise stuff sometimes makes me roll my eyes.

Even as far as Stargate goes I've been against some of the directions in which the writers have chosen to go to further the ship storyline because it seems so cliche. Star-crossed lovers, obstacles, etc. It was alright until mid season 7 (which seems to be a recurring theme with people).

Erik Pasternak
December 2nd, 2004, 03:12 PM
It was alright until mid season 7 (which seems to be a recurring theme with people).*cough"Chimera"cough*

Shipperahoy
December 2nd, 2004, 03:15 PM
Exactly, it's like they have the same tired formula that is universally used and all women are supposed to swoon. Sigh.

Dani347
December 2nd, 2004, 03:37 PM
Unfortunately, I think the stats DO say romance=female viewers. Look at the film Titanic. The reason for it's alltime box office receipt they put down to the females who came for that awful romance stuff in the first two hours and the boys woke up from their slumbers only when the ship began to sink. I did!!

How do they know the females weren't watching to see the ship sink? All they know is that people watched the movie. Did they do a survey asking all the females why they watched? And, how do they know there weren't some males who got caught up in the romance? I'm not saying that no woman likes romance, but I hope they don't go around assuming that we're all alike.

To put something in because you (tptb) think it's what the wimmenfolk want is reducing women to the lowest common demoninator. Why not just write good stories? Are they really so small minded that they think women won't enjoy a well written show unless they haphazardly stick ship in there? That ship can substitute for good storytelling?

Madeleine
December 2nd, 2004, 03:45 PM
I went three times. The second and third time I dozed through most, but was woken by whichever sister I was with (each had been given strict instructions ;)) for the scene in the engine room with the huge pistons (wow!) and for the bit at the end where the ship tips up then breaks then sinks.

ShadowMaat
December 2nd, 2004, 03:53 PM
I went to see Titanic for the special effects and to see the sinking. I gritted my teeth and suffered through the over-sentimental BS. And suffer I did, believe me... But it was almost worth it for the effects. Quite impressive.

keshou
December 2nd, 2004, 04:14 PM
If ship is done well it should enhance a show or a movie. But you have to have good stories, good chemistry and it can't just be thrown in to attract a certain demographic or because TPTB saw the actors fooling around in a scene and decided they'd write in the "ship". IMO, D&C came across as an episode where they just threw the ship against the wall to see if anything would stick. :)

They pulled back from it but the show kept getting renewed and renewed and the budget kept getting more and more difficult. Ship is cheap to write, doesn't require special effects.

I thought it was amusing that RCC was talking (in one of the S7 commentaries he did) about how they do all these "great scifi stories" and all anyone writes in about is the ship. Yet when I listened to the Chimera commentary all they talked about was the shippy stuff. And how the producers/writers all gathered at the studio to watch a certain scene. Even Brad Wright, who apparently never came to the studio in S7. ;) Hardly any comments about the more important "scifi" story. Those guys are shippers. If I ever doubted it before, I was convinced after listening to that commentary.

Ship can work out great in the right situation. First Indiana Jones movie - really nice ship, didn't detract from the story but instead added to it. The stars had great chemistry.

In the second two Indiana Jones movies the "ship" was bad. Cliched, with no chemistry. I ignored it and concentrated on the other fun parts but those two movies were nowhere as good as the first movie.

NightGloom
December 2nd, 2004, 04:16 PM
I went to go see Titanic so I could tell good jokes about the romance part and I wanted to see what was so special about it. Plus, I got to complain about all the historical inaccuracies and get yelled at for it.

I must say that I do like older romantic comedies, but that's mainly because Audrey Hepburn is like my hero.

ShadowMaat
December 2nd, 2004, 04:29 PM
Bringing Up Baby and Desk Set are two of my fave old-time romantic comedies. :) That was fun stuff and it was all so silly you couldn't help enjoying it.

As others have said, ship has to be well-written in order to be any good and the problem with TPTB is that they think they know how to write ship. They don't. Not in MY book, they don't.

And the hard-hitting scifi stories on Stargate are mostly a thing of the past. At least on SG-1. :P

LoneStar1836
December 2nd, 2004, 09:29 PM
Unfortunately, I think the stats DO say romance=female viewers. Look at the film Titanic. The reason for it's alltime box office receipt they put down to the females who came for that awful romance stuff in the first two hours and the boys woke up from their slumbers only when the ship began to sink. I did!!
I went to see the ship sink. Twice. :P Leo doesn't float my boat and neither does sappy romance most of the time. I want subsance and not fluff 9 times out of 10 in the stuff I watch. Now if Stargate could just sink a ship to the bottom of the nearest body of water.

Easter Lily
December 2nd, 2004, 11:46 PM
I understand that making sci-fi shows in general is a comparatively expensive exercise and it is important for TPTB to see both long term and short term gains to their investments. I also realise that it is important for them to try and garner as large a market as possible. But it baffles me completely that a show that gains popularity initially on the strength of its, for example, intriguing plot lines decides to introduce an incongrous vehicle (a romance between regular cast members from out of the blue) in order to attract more viewers. The thing is, people tune in to a show regularly because they like most of its existing elements and when networks attempt to "spice" it up, people feel cheated. Well, I do...
Every television show that I've started watching and enjoyed in the last few years eventually succumbs to romances in soapy proportions. I fear that some of my favourite cop shows are heading in that direction also...

With regard to appealing to the female demographic, I think networks can do other things rather than add the obligatory romance... good actors who are easy on the eye (Hey, I'm not going to pretend that's not a consideration :D ), sparkling dialogue, better story development, solid character development and great effects (where relevant). It's not just one thing that makes a show good... there's a whole range of factors.

Just my 2 cents worth.

Frostfox
December 3rd, 2004, 09:45 AM
I didn't bother with Titanic - the big ship sinks. End of story!

alz0rz
December 3rd, 2004, 09:55 AM
sorry to ask but in what episode did sam hum the sg theme?

NightGloom
December 3rd, 2004, 10:12 AM
sorry to ask but in what episode did sam hum the sg theme?

Chimera... ick...

FoolishPleasure
December 3rd, 2004, 10:39 AM
I've never liked the Jack/Sam "ship", but I do like Sam/Pete. :)

As for SGA - TPTB said there would be NO ship, but yet fans were subjected to comments about "playful, sexual tension" between Sheppard and Teyla before any episodes were even aired. Teyla's skimpy outfits and heavy makeup make it even worse. Gag. Hoping that good, intelligent stories will prevail.

BTW. .I saw "Titanic" 3 times. Hated Leonardo. Loved the rest of it.

Liv
December 3rd, 2004, 11:13 AM
If ship is written and acted well, then I don't have a problem with it. Just the opposite. Farscape proved that. (Okay, I'll stop with the Farscape example. Any day now. :p) But when it's heavy handed, boring and/or doesn't lead anywhere - that's when I object to it. Take the latest Atlantis episode, for instance:


Spoilers for Sanctuary:

I have no idea if the romance plastered across this particular episode was meant to satisfy the female demographic. Could be. Or not. Doesn't really matter, because I cringed my way through that entire scene out at the pier. Basically, the entire episode made me cringe. Boring doesn't quite cover it. :rolleyes:

ShadowMaat
December 3rd, 2004, 12:18 PM
I'll second your cringe-fest, Liv. In fact, I think Sanctuary is the WORST ep of the season so far. At least Childhood's End had some humor to redeem it and it had a moralistic point. Sanctuary was just... a waste of space. A badly-written waste of space.

Easter Lily
December 3rd, 2004, 12:35 PM
If ship is written and acted well, then I don't have a problem with it. Just the opposite. Farscape proved that. (Okay, I'll stop with the Farscape example. Any day now. :p) But when it's heavy handed, boring and/or doesn't lead anywhere - that's when I object to it. Take the latest Atlantis episode, for instance:


Spoilers for Sanctuary:

I have no idea if the romance plastered across this particular episode was meant to satisfy the female demographic. Could be. Or not. Doesn't really matter, because I cringed my way through that entire scene out at the pier. Basically, the entire episode made me cringe. Boring doesn't quite cover it. :rolleyes:

My response:
I was a tad amused by the romance... happened a bit too quickly don't you think? I agree that it appeared rather forced. Maj Cool himself going all starry eyed in a matter of minutes and throwing caution to the wind. Definitely not one of the better episodes. Perhaps TPTB felt it was time for flyboy to put his good looks to good use... :p I just hope that they're not setting him up to be some new generation equivalent of Captain Kirk... or the proverbial sailor who has a girl in every port. However the thought did strike me that they are probably trying to set up Sheppard as some second generation Ancient. Her comment that "we're not that different" warrants further consideration.

Easter Lily
December 3rd, 2004, 12:46 PM
I went to see the ship sink. Twice. :P Leo doesn't float my boat and neither does sappy romance most of the time. I want subsance and not fluff 9 times out of 10 in the stuff I watch. Now if Stargate could just sink a ship to the bottom of the nearest body of water.

The ship on that ship sank even before the iceberg made its appearance. Actually, I was pretty relieved when the iceberg did finally show up. :p I had more sympathy for Billy Zane than the so-called lovers. Kate Winslett and Leonardo di Caprio had a rather more, shall we say,fraternal chemistry. It's the first and only movie that I've seen with the husband in which he whispers to me after the first hour, "Can we leave now?"

Liv
December 3rd, 2004, 03:21 PM
My response:
I was a tad amused by the romance... happened a bit too quickly don't you think? I agree that it appeared rather forced. Maj Cool himself going all starry eyed in a matter of minutes and throwing caution to the wind. Definitely not one of the better episodes. Perhaps TPTB felt it was time for flyboy to put his good looks to good use... :p I just hope that they're not setting him up to be some new generation equivalent of Captain Kirk... or the proverbial sailor who has a girl in every port. However the thought did strike me that they are probably trying to set up Sheppard as some second generation Ancient. Her comment that "we're not that different" warrants further consideration.
The problem was that, IMO, they pretty much glossed over the fact that she was an Ancient - which is a fairly important discovery, I'd say - and instead made it all about Sheppard getting to be romantic with her. Yes, it did feel forced and the majority of the writing was... not good. ;)

I sincerely hope they're not going down the Kirk route, either. The references are already getting on my nerves.

LoneStar1836
December 4th, 2004, 12:26 AM
Noooooo! Y’all are making me :(:( about “Sanctuary”. Oh, well I guess you have to have the dud episode for every season. I just had to break down and read y’all’s spoilers. They better not take that route with him. :( He has more substance than that as a character and more potential than just eye candy for some of the female viewing audience. Another case of ship gone bad. I thought these were men writing this show. Why are they so hung up on ship? (That’s rhetorical cause I probably wouldn’t like the answer. :D)


The ship on that ship sank even before the iceberg made its appearance. Actually, I was pretty relieved when the iceberg did finally show up. :P
LOL! That’s a good one. The only ship left in the movie was the ship between the ship and the iceberg and even that ended badly. :D (not funny, I know, but that movie is kind of like the perfect analogy for anti-ship. Both the literal ship and the relationship sucked, and both sank in the end. Yeah her “heart went on” (or however the song went) but Leo was dead. It takes two to tango.)

The iceberg was my favorite character. ;) The movie got better when it showed up.

Hathor999
December 4th, 2004, 01:33 AM
I have never seen Titanic: cheesy melodramas bore me to dead (this is by the way the reason why I watched the "Final Fantasy" movie only one time - despite that I love the games passionatly!).

keshou
December 4th, 2004, 10:28 AM
Oh jeez, I just read the spoilers for Sanctuary above. Sounds a little cheesy but seems like a one-episode thing so I'm not going to worry about it. Just so long as they don't heat up the Weir/Shep ship. That would bug me.


The iceberg was my favorite character. ;) The movie got better when it showed up.
And it was one of the better actors too!! :D

The love story in Titanic was schmaltzy as heck. I hope I never have to hear Celine Dion sing "My Heart Will Go On" again. But, the special effects and sets made up for it. The work they did recreating the ship and the sinking itself was extraordinary.

Dani347
December 4th, 2004, 11:40 AM
I hope I never have to hear Celine Dion sing "My Heart Will Go On" again.

*whisper* I like the song *whisper*

keshou
December 4th, 2004, 12:14 PM
*whisper* I like the song *whisper*
Actually I kind of liked it the first 20 times I heard it. Celine Dion has a beautiful voice.

It was the last 1000 times that did me in. :( I got to where I'd change the radio station when it came on.

I haven't heard it in quite awhile. Who knows, maybe I'd actually enjoy it again. :)

NightGloom
December 4th, 2004, 05:35 PM
I think I could almost stand the song the first time I heard it. Then we sang it for chorus... :S

ShadowMaat
September 5th, 2005, 02:12 PM
Just figured I'd resurrect this VERY dead thread since the subject has come up again about how some feel that any ship (particularly main character ship) is bad for the show. Or bad for BOTH shows, technically. So if folks want to rage against all forms of ship without having to contend with opposing viewpoints as they would on the ship discussion thread and without veering off track in one of the anti-specific threads, here's a safe haven to rail, whine and generally complain. :)

AGateFan
September 5th, 2005, 02:25 PM
We just think its safe, but is it really? I think they will find us wherever we go. Those shippers and their shippery ways always trying to convert people to seeing chemistry that may or may not be there. :p

Ali888
September 6th, 2005, 03:58 AM
Just figured I'd resurrect this VERY dead thread since the subject has come up again about how some feel that any ship (particularly main character ship) is bad for the show. Or bad for BOTH shows, technically. So if folks want to rage against all forms of ship without having to contend with opposing viewpoints as they would on the ship discussion thread and without veering off track in one of the anti-specific threads, here's a safe haven to rail, whine and generally complain. :)

Good idea to bring the thread back up. I personally feel that shipping two main characters in any show (except soap operas and soap-type shows) is a bad idea, unless the premise of the show specifically allows it. For example, Firely is a show where ship is accepted because there are no rules and regulations forbidding it. (It's also well written, well acted, doesn't spoil other relationships and doesn't get in the way of the real story.) Ship doesn't work on SG1 because there are regulations which specifically forbid it. So there's no point in starting down the shippy road 'cos it ain't gonna get you anywhere. The same goes for other shows I like such as Without a Trace and House. It doesn't add to the shows and takes away from much more important things like searching for missing persons and saving lives. SG1 is about going through the Stargate, mythology and exploration etc. It isn't about the love lives of the major characters. PTB, please buy a clue.

Ali

ShadowMaat
September 6th, 2005, 01:00 PM
Ya know, I could probably cope with ship between minor characters, but- and I'm sure I've said this before- TPTB are so catastrophically bad at writing high-quality, realistic ship in ANY context that I'm really not sure I'd want to see their attempts. I don't like seeing my favorite main characters get mangled, but I don't want to see my favorite minor characters get mutilated, either. And where TPTB are involved, mass carnage on the ship front is inevitable. ;)

Or at least, I don't think it can be done by them. Carl Binder or Martin Gero, MAYBE, but anything they started would inevitably be continued by the others and that, I'm afraid, would be a Very Bad Thing.

starfox
April 3rd, 2006, 10:24 AM
Hmmm...do I count as anti-ship if it's mainly because I don't think my favored ships have a chance in hell of happening?


I'm of two minds on the ship issue. I think it could work, with better writing and as only a minor focus, but it can't happen now, especially on Atlantis. So many characters are underdeveloped that you can't put them in a relationship and make it interesting to watch, because then you a) have a relationship no one cares about because there's no emotional investment in the characters, or b) end up defining the characters mainly in the context of their romantic relationship, which is bad, bad, bad because it makes the relationship the viewer focus instead of character and plot.


Ali888 mentioned Firefly; to me that is the ultimate example of making ship work on a show. There were three ships there that had a lot of focus on them, but each on added to the plot, they didn't detract from it. And IMO, Wash and Zoe are the ultimate television relationship. They brought out a different side of each other, but their interactions were never out of character. Instead, they worked to develop the characters more. That is what ship should be to me, and I don't think Stargate can do that now.

When you have single characters of the age group shown in Stargate, it's not unnatural to expect a few of them to enter into romantic relationships. I just don't trust that it can be done properly on these shows; Sam and Jack proved that to me. If you can't do it right (by which I mean, off-screen), then leave it alone and leave us fanfiction for our shippy cravings.

NG.1
April 3rd, 2006, 01:06 PM
Hi guys

Although I am a huge Sam/Jack group I anyway decided to read through this thread.

Now...please don't flame me before you've read what I have to say, :cameron:

I'm not here to argue the Sam/Jack case just to speak about ship in general.

I am a Sam/Jack shipper fan, but can't stand the shipper pairs in Atlantis. Personally Teyla/Sheppard irritates the hell out of me.

Something which I have notice in myself is that as soon as a romance is forced onto the viewers within the first two seasons I am completely discusted and refused to be even remotely interested.

e.g. Angel/Buffy
Those two from Alias
Clark and Lana from Smallville
Angel and Kate (first two seasons from Angel)

Just to name a few examples.

Also in movies where the couples hardly knows each other but after one night's stand declare their ever lasting love is just plain stupid. That's not love, just lust in my personal opinion.

Now...I was just wondering whether anybody else feels the same way, or am I just being "weird" here?

starfox
April 3rd, 2006, 02:52 PM
Something which I have notice in myself is that as soon as a romance is forced onto the viewers within the first two seasons I am completely discusted and refused to be even remotely interested.

e.g. Angel/Buffy
Those two from Alias
Clark and Lana from Smallville
Angel and Kate (first two seasons from Angel)

Just to name a few examples.

I actually didn't really think much about the Angel/Kate thing (I was too busy shipping Doyle and Cordelia), but I had no problems with Sydney/whatever her handler's name was. Angel/Buffy was a little over-angsty for me at times, but I still liked it. In both of the above cases, the ship was well-written and plausible for who the characters were and where they were at that point in their lives/in the plot. I feel like Stargate ship can't be done that way and be in the foreground, just because of the nature of the plot.
Also, with Angel and Buffy and Alias, the viewers were given a good idea of who the characters were and what they were like right off the bat. With Atlantis, we're still working off vague outlines and not a lot of history (with the exception of Rodney). It's really hard to shape a workable, believable ship with characters that aren't fully developed.



Also in movies where the couples hardly knows each other but after one night's stand declare their ever lasting love is just plain stupid. That's not love, just lust in my personal opinion.


Amen to that.

ShadowMaat
April 3rd, 2006, 03:03 PM
Couples who go on one date which leads to a night of passionate sex (on a first date?!) and then the declarations of love... spare me. :rolleyes:

The worst thing is, I recently wrote a story (original stuff) wherein two of the main characters were dating for a month or so but hadn't had sex and someone in my writer's group told me that it was "unrealistic" and implied that something had to be wrong with one or both of my characters if they weren't having sex.

WTF?

I know I've been out of the dating scene for a while, but do people REALLY have sex that fast? And it is common enough that NOT having sex is unusual? *boggles*

The problem with main character ship is that it's usually done because the main characters are supposed to be shipped together. It doesn't matter if the characters have nothing in common, have no chemistry, and have no earthly reason to be attracted to each other- they wind up together because they're "supposed" to. I hate that.

Erised
April 3rd, 2006, 03:19 PM
Couples who go on one date which leads to a night of passionate sex (on a first date?!) and then the declarations of love... spare me. :rolleyes:

The worst thing is, I recently wrote a story (original stuff) wherein two of the main characters were dating for a month or so but hadn't had sex and someone in my writer's group told me that it was "unrealistic" and implied that something had to be wrong with one or both of my characters if they weren't having sex.

WTF?

I know I've been out of the dating scene for a while, but do people REALLY have sex that fast? And it is common enough that NOT having sex is unusual? *boggles*

The problem with main character ship is that it's usually done because the main characters are supposed to be shipped together. It doesn't matter if the characters have nothing in common, have no chemistry, and have no earthly reason to be attracted to each other- they wind up together because they're "supposed" to. I hate that.
unrealistic? oh come on! It's normal and no two people don't necessarily have to have sex as soon as they meet *sigh*
I may be a shipper but I prefer good friendship over a badly written ship.. I can fulfill my fantasies with fanfiction thank you very much ;)
and *cough* I'd rather not ship when one of the characters is VERY BADLY written and screwed beyong belief...

Dani347
April 3rd, 2006, 03:48 PM
I know I've been out of the dating scene for a while, but do people REALLY have sex that fast? And it is common enough that NOT having sex is unusual? *boggles*

I'm a freak! :eek:

Of course, there is the flip side, where a writer drags out two people, teasing the audience, not having them get together and then finally at the end they do. And, that is a problem for two reasons. First of all the people that liked them had to put up with waiting. And, then, the people that didn't also had to put up with it, and it seems the longer a ship gets danced around, the more this feeling that it's some kind of mythical love of the ages thing. So, you have to watch two people who you had no interest in being together and also have to be force fed this idea that the stalling was worth it, because it was such a wonderful thing to wait for.


The problem with main character ship is that it's usually done because the main characters are supposed to be shipped together. It doesn't matter if the characters have nothing in common, have no chemistry, and have no earthly reason to be attracted to each other- they wind up together because they're "supposed" to. I hate that.

Me too. I have shipped for main characters, but not until they gave me a reason beyond it. And, it has to be more than they're nice and attractive.

Right now, I'm anti any ship that tptb actively persue. Leave it to the fans. Jack/Sam was a nightmare. I'm terrified at what will happen if they fully commit to a Daniel/Vala ship (maybe they already have, but I'd like to keep my rose colored glasses on a bit longer).

NG.1
April 3rd, 2006, 10:02 PM
Couples who go on one date which leads to a night of passionate sex (on a first date?!) and then the declarations of love... spare me. :rolleyes:

The worst thing is, I recently wrote a story (original stuff) wherein two of the main characters were dating for a month or so but hadn't had sex and someone in my writer's group told me that it was "unrealistic" and implied that something had to be wrong with one or both of my characters if they weren't having sex.

WTF?

I know I've been out of the dating scene for a while, but do people REALLY have sex that fast? And it is common enough that NOT having sex is unusual? *boggles*

The problem with main character ship is that it's usually done because the main characters are supposed to be shipped together. It doesn't matter if the characters have nothing in common, have no chemistry, and have no earthly reason to be attracted to each other- they wind up together because they're "supposed" to. I hate that.

You know what is worse...in certain countries and cultures it is still considered the norm not to have sex until you are married or at the very least living with someone. Now to try and explain to people in "civilised" countries that that is not weird or abnormal is like trying to convince someone that the air is purple or something.

Maybe that is why the Aids figure in the world is so high and why one get so many teen pregnancies. A lot of people think they must have sex quickly with a partner or otherwise there is something wrong with them.

Sigh...

I think that is one reason why I am a sucker for old-fashioned romance on TV and movies, namely where there is no bed scenes. It is different that what is popular these days and it sets a better example for impressionable youth.

By the way I'm from South Africa.

NG.1
April 3rd, 2006, 10:17 PM
I actually didn't really think much about the Angel/Kate thing (I was too busy shipping Doyle and Cordelia), but I had no problems with Sydney/whatever her handler's name was. Angel/Buffy was a little over-angsty for me at times, but I still liked it. In both of the above cases, the ship was well-written and plausible for who the characters were and where they were at that point in their lives/in the plot. I feel like Stargate ship can't be done that way and be in the foreground, just because of the nature of the plot.
Also, with Angel and Buffy and Alias, the viewers were given a good idea of who the characters were and what they were like right off the bat. With Atlantis, we're still working off vague outlines and not a lot of history (with the exception of Rodney). It's really hard to shape a workable, believable ship with characters that aren't fully developed.


Amen to that.

Hi

My personal opinion regarding ships I don't like (as above) is to ignore it on TV.

I understand that there are people that enjoyed them, so like they say to each their own. Although I don't like them I'll still watch through the scenes and afterwards say, "yeah whatever."

Okay...I realise my post may seem like a hit to this anti-ship thread, but it's not meant to be that way.

You guys have the complete right to be complaining about ship in Stargate and I respect you for that. I was just trying to indicate how I normally behave when faced with ship I don't like.

As for movies...I love romantic stories, but are these days too afraid to go and watch a popular romantic movie. Reason being that it absolutely irritates the hell out of me seeing two virtually stranges jumping into bed together and then have this sudden love for each other afterwards.

And now people ask why marriage don't last sometimes. Part of the reason is that people have an unnatural expectation of marriage and when their expectation is not met they bail out.

Sooner or later the over-the-top passion is going to leave a marriage (the original lust is going to cool down) and then couples suddely realise they have absolutely nothing in common and not knowing how to face this new, unexpected twist they go for the easy option of a divorce.

I believe a couple must be able to still be friends after the original "passion" has left the marriage. This way they can still talk to each other as to what is missing in their marriage and work on it from there on.

Dani347
April 3rd, 2006, 11:00 PM
You know, sometimes I can ignore a ship. Especially when I'm not aware of it. I have no problems with people speculating about a Sam/Mitchell ship, because I don't see it, and more importantly, I don't see the writers trying to make me see it. Daniel/Sam ship doesn't bother me, because it doesn't exist in any form on my tv. But, once tptb actually say they want to pursue a ship, it's hard to escape (for me at least) even if I don't believe it.

AdrianneP
April 4th, 2006, 05:07 AM
You know, sometimes I can ignore a ship. Especially when I'm not aware of it. I have no problems with people speculating about a Sam/Mitchell ship, because I don't see it, and more importantly, I don't see the writers trying to make me see it. Daniel/Sam ship doesn't bother me, because it doesn't exist in any form on my tv. But, once tptb actually say they want to pursue a ship, it's hard to escape (for me at least) even if I don't believe it.

I'm with you. I can ignore ship when it's not being shoved down my throat or it doesn't ruin an episode or scene for being so badly written and shoved so deeply down my throat as if the screen/writers are screaming in my face, "HOW CAN YOU NOT SEE THE PASSION THESE TWO HAVE FOR ONE ANOTHER!?" Then I can ignore a ship ...

It's when it's being forced down my throat, then things get ugly.

NG.1, I like your thinking. Maybe I'll move to South Africa. I've had it suggested that I'm gay because of my thinking on sex and relationships.

Adrianne

maxbo
April 4th, 2006, 07:24 AM
The first time I saw this thread I didn't believe it applied to me because I consider myself more of a non-ship supporter than an anti-shipper, but now I'm coming out of the closet, so to speak, to admit that I don't ever want to see ship directly addressed in the Stargate community, period. For ship to be even somewhat interesting, long-term, TPTB has to have a commitment to developing the characters first, and I don't see that in SGA, especially.

When I read AT's con report about the Sam/Jack thing, I cringed because I didn't even realize that people shipped Sam and Jack until I started visiting the SG boards late last year. In fact, I was so clueless about this ship that on another board I said that this ship was the perfect ship because TPTB had provided just enough to keep the shippers happy, but not so much that they alienated non-shippers. Boy, was I shown the error of my ways. That was my first SG lesson in how TPTB managed to piss everybody off when they tried to address ship and I fear the same will happen to SGA. Fortunately, because I hadn't seen much of season 6 and none of seasons 7 and 8, I missed the gory details.

So, no, no, no, to realized ship in the Stargate community. I have no problem with people seeing the shippiness in certain scenes, in fact, I enjoy reading the different interpretations, but I don't ever want to see any ship realized on SGA or SG-1. I think those who want their ships canonized should be careful of what they wish for because under this writing team, the results will probably be disastrous. :S

ShadowMaat
April 4th, 2006, 07:29 AM
As far as Stargate is concerned, I say leave the shippyness up to the fans. At least THEY have half a clue about it and that way it won't destroy the show for everyone else.

AdrianneP
April 4th, 2006, 07:43 AM
When I read AT's con report about the Sam/Jack thing, I cringed because I didn't even realize that people shipped Sam and Jack until I started visiting the SG boards late last year. In fact, I was so clueless about this ship that on another board I said that this ship was the perfect ship because TPTB had provided just enough to keep the shippers happy, but not so much that they alienated non-shippers. Boy, was I shown the error of my ways. That was my first SG lesson in how TPTB managed to piss everybody off when they tried to address ship and I fear the same will happen to SGA. Fortunately, because I hadn't seen much of season 6 and none of seasons 7 and 8, I missed the gory details.

I had the same thing. Thankfully, I read a little before I opened my mouth so I didn't find out the hard way ... and I asked someone nice for a clue as well and he didn't tear my head off in answering.

But I totally don't see the Sam & Jack ship. I'm watching the 2nd season now. I haven't seen the 6th, 7th, or 8th season yet ... But I just *do not* see the Ship. At all. In order for me to see it, Sam has GOT to stop calling Jack "Sir" ... Because to me it just sounds like she's whining and I want to whack her upside the head.

Adrianne

Dani347
April 4th, 2006, 08:16 AM
You know, I don't think they really were trying to show ship in the early seasons. Or, I don't think they were actively pursuing it. IMO, AU's don't count. And, neither does The Broca Divide. Somehow, the image of Sam attacking Jack while under an alien influence doesn't bring violins and roses into my head. Like I said, I have no problem thinking that Jack and Sam might find each other attractive, but to me that's not ship. So, for the first three seasons, they were just going along, having a platonic relationship. Anything else was artificially constructed (I mean, it was written to be artificial, not artificial like the actual "ship" might be described). It really wasn't until season 7 (maybe 6, but I didn't see that) that they really started pushing the ship. Throwing hints, having people suggest things, having Sam act all lovesick over someone who didn't seem to show any interest. Season 8 actually started pretty well, but it went downhill later on.

Daniel and Vala are two different people and don't have the same problems that Jack and Sam did, but I think if they pursue this ship, there will be a completely new set of problems that will make me hate it. And, one thing I'm afraid this pairing would share is pushing ship over friendship.

maxbo
April 4th, 2006, 08:46 AM
I had the same thing. Thankfully, I read a little before I opened my mouth so I didn't find out the hard way ... and I asked someone nice for a clue as well and he didn't tear my head off in answering.

But I totally don't see the Sam & Jack ship. I'm watching the 2nd season now. I haven't seen the 6th, 7th, or 8th season yet ... But I just *do not* see the Ship. At all. In order for me to see it, Sam has GOT to stop calling Jack "Sir" ... Because to me it just sounds like she's whining and I want to whack her upside the head.

Adrianne

Thankfully, I was fortunate enough to put my big foot in my mouth on a board where the posters were more curious about why I thought Sam/Jack worked for shippers and non-shippers than they were in attacking me, so it turned out to be a interesting experience where I got to hear how disappointed each group was.

The first question I was asked was if I had seen seasons 7 and 8 and when I admitted that I hadn't is when I was firmly, but gently, educated about how TPTB had managed to piss both groups off.

Dani347, when I saw the Broca Divide, I got more of a Daniel/Sam vibe than a Sam/Jack vibe and even the Daniel/Sam thing was too fleeting to be taken as shippy, IMO. I put this episode down as the same type of one-shot episode as that Star Trek Next Generation episode where several regular characters hooked up while under the influence.

AdrianneP
April 4th, 2006, 09:04 AM
Dani347, when I saw the Broca Divide, I got more of a Daniel/Sam vibe than a Sam/Jack vibe and even the Daniel/Sam thing was too fleeting to be taken as shippy, IMO. I put this episode down as the same type of one-shot episode as that Star Trek Next Generation episode where several regular characters hooked up while under the influence.

See now in Season 1 and 2 I picked up many cute Sam/Daniel ship vibes ... And let them go because I so hate ship ... but cute and seeable. Now I'm seeing all this Daniel/Jack, Daniel/Any-male, he's-so-gay Ships and I'm just :eek: Huh? When did that happen!?

A lot of these pairs are "Mary Sues" (think that's the term), right? "I'm most like X and I really want Y so I like this 'Ship'."?

Adrianne

Starfalcon
April 4th, 2006, 11:38 AM
You know, sometimes I can ignore a ship. Especially when I'm not aware of it. I have no problems with people speculating about a Sam/Mitchell ship, because I don't see it, and more importantly, I don't see the writers trying to make me see it. Daniel/Sam ship doesn't bother me, because it doesn't exist in any form on my tv. But, once tptb actually say they want to pursue a ship, it's hard to escape (for me at least) even if I don't believe it.

Before I start. I have nothing against ship. I think it´s nothing bad to have some romance in a TV show. But what I hate is when it get´s to much room in a show. I have read the spoilers for season 10 and always when I read

S
P
O
I
L
E
R

Daniels name it´s in connection with Vala and now as Jack is returning (what makes me very happy) all what I have heard it´s that most of it´s return is devoted to Sam/Jack ship.

I don´t mind some ship.
But too much is too much. And when the only thing what the script writers can think about how bring we another ship or sex scene in the script than they should maybe better work for O.C. or Desperate Housewifes.
I hope it´s will not be so bad as it looks now and I find enough things I like but I begin to doubt it.

ShadowMaat
April 4th, 2006, 11:57 AM
The problem with ship on Stargate is that it doesn't add to our understanding of the characters, it acts as a substitue for plot/character development.

NG.1
April 4th, 2006, 12:54 PM
I'm with you. I can ignore ship when it's not being shoved down my throat or it doesn't ruin an episode or scene for being so badly written and shoved so deeply down my throat as if the screen/writers are screaming in my face, "HOW CAN YOU NOT SEE THE PASSION THESE TWO HAVE FOR ONE ANOTHER!?" Then I can ignore a ship ...

It's when it's being forced down my throat, then things get ugly.

NG.1, I like your thinking. Maybe I'll move to South Africa. I've had it suggested that I'm gay because of my thinking on sex and relationships.

Adrianne

I am not going to comment your first post because like I said before to each their own - I'm personally a Jack/Sam fan and can see the chemistry but can respect those of you that can't.

As for your last post - you are more than welcome, :D

Here in South Africa the worse they'll do is try and set you up on a date with a brother/nephew/friend etc.

South Africa is actually a wonderful country (except the crime, :( ) because we respect everybody's point of view.

Dani347
September 15th, 2006, 03:13 PM
Resurrecting this thread to mention a pet peeve of mine when it comes to ship. Anytime I say I don't want ship, or when I say too much time has been spent on the romantic lives of characters (I'm talking any various fandoms) or when I say that I think a character should be single for awhile, someone inevitably says, "don't you want the characters to be happy?" Why is there this idea that unless you're paired up with someone, you can't be happy? I think some people can be lonely and sad without a romantic partner. But, not everyone is. And, I'm not going to assume that if a character doesn't have a romance, or worse, some Kirking going on, it means they're unhappy and not wanting to see any of that is denying them their chance at happiness. I see nothing to indicate that Daniel is missing some happiness that only being hooked up with someone would rectify. So, again, just because I don't want ship doesn't mean I don't want happiness for the characters. I just think there are many ways of finding happiness.

Skydiver
September 15th, 2006, 05:00 PM
i've always said, i don't mind ship IN the show, just not AS the show

in MM for example why couldn't it have been the TEAM taking vala out to dinner to give her her patches? why this incessant obsession with daniel/vala?

what? vala's not capable of standing onher own two feet? she's only 'worthy' of being in an episode if she's paired iwth a guy?

Here's teh danger. Ok, one excuse of a lack of sam is that without jack they 'dont' know what to do with her' - writer weakness IMHO. so why is vala being treated the same way?

doesn't anyone realize if vala is an inseparable part of daniel, then when/if michael leaves the show - moot point i know - then vala will too be rendered useless?

screw pairing them up like noah's ark. let them stand on their own

Racingtime
September 15th, 2006, 06:59 PM
Why is there this idea that unless you're paired up with someone, you can't be happy? I think some people can be lonely and sad without a romantic partner. But, not everyone is....I see nothing to indicate that Daniel is missing some happiness that only being hooked up with someone would rectify.

You already know that I completely agree with this but I had to say it anyway. I don't understand it either. As I was saying in the episode thread, Daniel has plenty of happy moments when he is around his close friends and I don't think pairing him up with Vala will all of a sudden make him happier than he already is with the people in his life. In fact, given the Ori threat, I think this is one of the worst times to start a new romantic/sexual relationship. I don't see why they can't just have Daniel and Vala as friends.

JessM
September 16th, 2006, 09:39 AM
You already know that I completely agree with this but I had to say it anyway. I don't understand it either. As I was saying in the episode thread, Daniel has plenty of happy moments when he is around his close friends and I don't think pairing him up with Vala will all of a sudden make him happier than he already is with the people in his life. In fact, given the Ori threat, I think this is one of the worst times to start a new romantic/sexual relationship. I don't see why they can't just have Daniel and Vala as friends.

I totally agree. They should leave it well enough alone and have EVERYone on the show just remain friends.

(yeah I'm new to this thread...and I know my sig is shippy, but I'm a shipper in fanfics only... anti-ship onscreen)

AdrianneP
September 18th, 2006, 05:46 AM
screw pairing them up like noah's ark. let them stand on their own

But don't you want them to be ... Oops, never mind. ;)


In fact, given the Ori threat, I think this is one of the worst times to start a new romantic/sexual relationship. I don't see why they can't just have Daniel and Vala as friends.

My pet peeve with Shippers is they'll argue that they're not talking about a romantic/sexual relationship. They're talking about "friendSHIP", it's still a Ship. No, just shut up and watch the show ... Don't talk to me about two characters and their budding friendSHIP. It's an ensemble cast/show. It's not the McKay/Shep Show, Shep/Weir Show, Jack/Sam Show, Daniel/Vala Show. It's about the freakin' TEAM!

Adrianne

JessM
September 18th, 2006, 03:12 PM
My pet peeve with Shippers is they'll argue that they're not talking about a romantic/sexual relationship. They're talking about "friendSHIP", it's still a Ship. No, just shut up and watch the show ... Don't talk to me about two characters and their budding friendSHIP. It's an ensemble cast/show. It's not the McKay/Shep Show, Shep/Weir Show, Jack/Sam Show, Daniel/Vala Show. It's about the freakin' TEAM!

Adrianne

I know what you mean. And I am a friendshipper onscreen, but that does not mean I want to see one friendship highlighted above the rest. I'd like to see friendship between each of the characters, if that makes any sense. That's what I liked about the show in the early days. The friendships between the different characters were shown more or less equally. We saw Sam/Daniel friendship, Sam/Jack friendship, Jack/Daniel friendship, Jack/Teal'c friendship, Daniel/Teal'c, Sam/Janet, etc. etc. And none of these were EVER at the expense of the others. We saw the friendship in the team dynamic. Does that make any sense? Or am I just speaking jibberish like I tend to do sometimes, lol :o

AdrianneP
September 19th, 2006, 05:49 AM
It makes sense to me because I've seen it as well ... You don't see that anymore. Like, now, at least for me, Vala seems most comfortable with Daniel ... It seems that no one else really likes her ... :;Shrug:: Sam and Cameron are finally getting along -- which I love seeing but you only ever see them getting along when it's just the two of them ...

There is no real TEAM dynamic.

Adrianne

JessM
September 19th, 2006, 01:54 PM
Exactly. And that's one of many reasons why I like the early season eps better. I think it's a shame that Vala only feels comfortable with Daniel. I'd like to see her interact with the others a bit more so that she can ease into the team more and will seem more like a team player (right now it just seems like she's there because Daniel's there... at least IMHO).

I was glad to see a bit of a team scene in the very last scene of In the Company of Thieves...don't think we've really had one of those this season (with the exception of Morpheus, maybe).

AdrianneP
September 20th, 2006, 04:43 AM
If they don't get the Team Dynamic back do you really think SG1 Movies is going to sell? I don't think so ... :;Shrug::

I've stopped watching Atlantis, I have never seen a Team Dynamic there ...

Adrianne

MasterPower
September 20th, 2006, 10:01 AM
This is what Jim Carrey from Dumb and Dumber thinks of Jack and Sam getting together.

http://img123.imageshack.us/img123/1254/gagging6fm.gif








I consider myself an anti shipper. I really don't watch the show just to see people get together. BUT, if I were to choose only one ship, it would be Daniel and Sam.

AdrianneP
September 20th, 2006, 10:41 AM
I consider myself an anti shipper. I really don't watch the show just to see people get together. BUT, if I were to choose only one ship, it would be Daniel and Sam.

I have to agree with that :o

Adrianne

JessM
September 20th, 2006, 01:47 PM
If they don't get the Team Dynamic back do you really think SG1 Movies is going to sell? I don't think so ... :;Shrug::

I've stopped watching Atlantis, I have never seen a Team Dynamic there ...

Adrianne


I know I probably wouldn't watch the movies if we didn't get the team dyamic back...I sometimes wonder if it's now lost forever...

JessM
September 20th, 2006, 01:47 PM
I have to agree with that :o

Adrianne

Me too. :D LOL @ the Jim Carrey "Dumb and Dumber" clip, MasterPower... that's great.

Frostfox
September 20th, 2006, 01:54 PM
i've always said, i don't mind ship IN the show, just not AS the show

in MM for example why couldn't it have been the TEAM taking vala out to dinner to give her her patches? why this incessant obsession with daniel/vala?

what? vala's not capable of standing onher own two feet? she's only 'worthy' of being in an episode if she's paired iwth a guy?

Here's teh danger. Ok, one excuse of a lack of sam is that without jack they 'dont' know what to do with her' - writer weakness IMHO. so why is vala being treated the same way?

doesn't anyone realize if vala is an inseparable part of daniel, then when/if michael leaves the show - moot point i know - then vala will too be rendered useless?

screw pairing them up like noah's ark. let them stand on their own

Oh I so agree with that.
I was insulted on behalf of Amanda when they pulled the 'We don't know what to do with your character' - could they have been any more obvious? They all but painted it in 3 metre high letters 'We don't know what to do with your character now RDA has left so be a good girl and spout your technobabble and we'll quietly shunt you to one side for our new shiney characters'
And they seem to want to do it again to Vala. WHY? And why has she gone from sex kitten/thief to cutsey pigtailed/eyelash fluttering girly?

Yet another good reason for them to leave the relationship stuff out, these writers have proved time and time again that they can't handle writing proper grown up relationships so I'd rather they didn't bother at all.

FF :nox:

AdrianneP
September 20th, 2006, 02:13 PM
And they seem to want to do it again to Vala. WHY? And why has she gone from sex kitten/thief to cutsey pigtailed/eyelash fluttering girly?

Oo! I *hate* SkippingPigtailedVala. She is too OLD for that!

Adrianne

Frostfox
September 20th, 2006, 02:30 PM
Oo! I *hate* SkippingPigtailedVala. She is too OLD for that!

Adrianne

Yep, well Sam's too mature, too smart and has too much self respect to turn up at her boss' house in twin set and pearls dressed like a middle aged frump and gatecrash his BBQ with his girlfriend, (while she was engaged to someone else too) but that didn't stop them.

FF (who, you might gather, really loathes that scene in Threads) :nox:

AdrianneP
September 20th, 2006, 03:16 PM
Oo Oo! This is where I say, "<Fiancee> didn't make her happy, don't you want Sam to be happy?!" right?!?!? :D

:;Duck::

Adrianne

JessM
September 21st, 2006, 03:54 AM
Oh I so agree with that.
I was insulted on behalf of Amanda when they pulled the 'We don't know what to do with your character' - could they have been any more obvious? They all but painted it in 3 metre high letters 'We don't know what to do with your character now RDA has left so be a good girl and spout your technobabble and we'll quietly shunt you to one side for our new shiney characters'
And they seem to want to do it again to Vala. WHY? And why has she gone from sex kitten/thief to cutsey pigtailed/eyelash fluttering girly?

Yet another good reason for them to leave the relationship stuff out, these writers have proved time and time again that they can't handle writing proper grown up relationships so I'd rather they didn't bother at all.

FF :nox:

Couldn't agree more. I thought that was terrible what they said to her. It might be just me, but it seems that they don't have a handle on writing female characters, at least not as good a handle as they did back in the early days.

As far as Vala goes, I've seen that quite a few people who adore Vala don't like Sam because they think she's too "boring."

JessM
September 21st, 2006, 03:57 AM
Oo Oo! This is where I say, "<Fiancee> didn't make her happy, don't you want Sam to be happy?!" right?!?!? :D

:;Duck::

Adrianne

LOL, yep I think that's your line ;)

I better throw this in too... "You want a reason why Vala and Daniel should be together? Well look, Sam has Jack, Teal'c has Ishta, Mini-Jack has Cassie, Felger has Chloe, Sha're is long gone and Sarah is gone too, so Daniel is all by his lonesome! Don't you want him to be happy???"

Frostfox
September 21st, 2006, 04:28 AM
Oo Oo! This is where I say, "<Fiancee> didn't make her happy, don't you want Sam to be happy?!" right?!?!? :D

:;Duck::

Adrianne

He seemed to make her plenty happy in the scenes where he's romancing her and taking her out on dates and such like.
If she wants to waste her time mooning over the boss, of course she won't be happy.
The other problem with her having a relationship with her CO (apart from trivial stuff like it being illegal) is that it would totally stuff her promotion chances. Even if he was no longer in her chain of command, he was when she had at least two promotions and Cesar's wife must be beyond reproach - not only must her CO not have directly promoted her, there must be no trace of nepotism, no whisper at all of any illegal relationship between them.

FF :nox:

AdrianneP
September 21st, 2006, 05:53 AM
He seemed to make her plenty happy in the scenes where he's romancing her and taking her out on dates and such like.
If she wants to waste her time mooning over the boss, of course she won't be happy.
The other problem with her having a relationship with her CO (apart from trivial stuff like it being illegal) is that it would totally stuff her promotion chances. Even if he was no longer in her chain of command, he was when she had at least two promotions and Cesar's wife must be beyond reproach - not only must her CO not have directly promoted her, there must be no trace of nepotism, no whisper at all of any illegal relationship between them.

FF :nox:

I just absolutely HATE that she ONLY ever calls him "Sir" ... It drives me up a freakin' wall! THERE IS NO RELATIONSHIP, SEXUAL OR OTHER WISE, WHEN YOU CAN'T EVEN SAY A PERSON'S NAME! And don't even try to sell me on "It's a respect thing." BS.

I respect my priest too but I still call him by his given name, to his face even, because I consider him a FRIEND! If Sam and Jack had any kind of RELATIONSHIP she wouldn't be calling him "Sir" all the time. Oo it drives me up a wall.

Didn't she do it in the 200th episode too? Jack walked into the room and Daniel went, "Jack!" and Sam went, "Sir!" and then Jack's like, "Not any more," and Sam had to practically spit out his name ... I hate scenes like that.

Adrianne

AdrianneP
September 21st, 2006, 05:55 AM
LOL, yep I think that's your line ;)

I better throw this in too... "You want a reason why Vala and Daniel should be together? Well look, Sam has Jack, Teal'c has Ishta, Mini-Jack has Cassie, Felger has Chloe, Sha're is long gone and Sarah is gone too, so Daniel is all by his lonesome! Don't you want him to be happy???"

I kind of get that mentality when it comes from teenagers, and by that I mean, like, 14 year olds ... but when it's a grown adult trying to sell me that load I just go :eek: You'd think they'd know better.

Adrianne

grasshopper64
September 21st, 2006, 09:25 AM
Yep, well Sam's too mature, too smart and has too much self respect to turn up at her boss' house in twin set and pearls dressed like a middle aged frump and gatecrash his BBQ with his girlfriend, (while she was engaged to someone else too) but that didn't stop them.

FF (who, you might gather, really loathes that scene in Threads) :nox:

That has to be one of the most (if not the most) cringeworthy scenes in stargate history:eek:

Also in Lost City when Sam goes to Jack's house, the whole scene is just so awkward, well until Daniel and Teal'c walk in and make themselves at home:)And she has to ask him if he still sees his ex-wife!? But then thanks to the way they kept dragging up the ship most scenes between them became awkward.

That's why the early seasons where on the whole so much better, I never saw any thing shippy in S1-3, although you could probably see something there is you really wanted to, and maybe it's just me but the scenes between Jack and Sam were far more comfortable, hell Jack even called her "Sam" a few times back in S1/2!

Frostfox
September 21st, 2006, 01:53 PM
That's why the early seasons where on the whole so much better, I never saw any thing shippy in S1-3, although you could probably see something there is you really wanted to, and maybe it's just me but the scenes between Jack and Sam were far more comfortable, hell Jack even called her "Sam" a few times back in S1/2!

Absolutely.
And I believe that the fans are best left to hints and their own imaginations, so that those who want to see the relationship can and those who don't, don't have to have it rubbed in their faces all the time.
I also firmly believe that the fanfic writers would do a far, far better job than the show writers.

I was most likely never going to be a fan of any 'ship in Stargate, it's just not what I watch a skiffy show for, any skiffy show. But they compounded my dislike with bad writing, an attempted massacre of Sam's wonderful character and some very strange acting choices from both AT, RDA and the directors which made them look very uncomfortable together most of the time they tried for any romantic chemistry.

I wish they'd just gone with the mentor/pupil interaction of the early seasons, and that lovely, selfless Sam who would allow a dying man to think she was the wife he loved (Solitudes), rather than someone desprate to cheat on her fiance with her boss (Threads).

FF :nox:

Dani347
September 21st, 2006, 03:30 PM
LOL, yep I think that's your line ;)

I better throw this in too... "You want a reason why Vala and Daniel should be together? Well look, Sam has Jack, Teal'c has Ishta, Mini-Jack has Cassie, Felger has Chloe, Sha're is long gone and Sarah is gone too, so Daniel is all by his lonesome! Don't you want him to be happy???"

Don't forget Siler has his wrench.

JessM
September 21st, 2006, 03:57 PM
I kind of get that mentality when it comes from teenagers, and by that I mean, like, 14 year olds ... but when it's a grown adult trying to sell me that load I just go :eek: You'd think they'd know better.

Adrianne

Oh, I know. Some people are just way too obsessive about these things and need to sit back and remember it's just a show. The thing I can't stand is when they actively try to convert me. I've had different shippers target me and tell me to "open my eyes" and see that the ship is right because the two people are just absolutely made for each other. What does that say about these people I wonder? :rolleyes: I don't care what people do, if they ship or not. It's their right. But when they try to do things like that, I think they give their ship a bad name (not pointing fingers at anyone in particular - just saying in general).

JessM
September 21st, 2006, 04:01 PM
Don't forget Siler has his wrench.

LOL! That's right - how could I forget about the wrench? ;)

And the bottle of Mop 'n Glo has that lonely mop that's standing up in the storage closet...

AdrianneP
September 22nd, 2006, 04:43 AM
Oh, I know. Some people are just way too obsessive about these things and need to sit back and remember it's just a show. The thing I can't stand is when they actively try to convert me. I've had different shippers target me and tell me to "open my eyes" and see that the ship is right because the two people are just absolutely made for each other. What does that say about these people I wonder? :rolleyes: I don't care what people do, if they ship or not. It's their right. But when they try to do things like that, I think they give their ship a bad name (not pointing fingers at anyone in particular - just saying in general).

Or viciously attack someone else's ship because even just the thought of your ship not being the only ship sets you into a fit of rage :rolleyes: :cool: Can't really grasp that one either.

My favorite thought has to be the *really* weird pairings that would never happy ... I've asked why that pairing as there's absolutely no way and have gotten, "I know! But the sex would be great!" http://homepage.mac.com/adriannep1/Smiles/Blink.gif It's time for you to go outside now.

Adrianne

Frostfox
September 22nd, 2006, 10:16 AM
Or viciously attack someone else's ship because even just the thought of your ship not being the only ship sets you into a fit of rage :rolleyes: :cool: Can't really grasp that one either.

My favorite thought has to be the *really* weird pairings that would never happy ... I've asked why that pairing as there's absolutely no way and have gotten, "I know! But the sex would be great!" http://homepage.mac.com/adriannep1/Smiles/Blink.gif It's time for you to go outside now.

Adrianne

Weird pairings can be fun!
I slashed Bashir/Sisko on DS9, I think there were a grand total of three of us writing that pairing. We had a fab time and became great friends!

But I'd never have the audacity to tell another fan who they should be shipping for.

My dislike is for the ship, not the shippers.

FF :nox;

JessM
September 22nd, 2006, 02:01 PM
Or viciously attack someone else's ship because even just the thought of your ship not being the only ship sets you into a fit of rage :rolleyes: :cool: Can't really grasp that one either.

My favorite thought has to be the *really* weird pairings that would never happy ... I've asked why that pairing as there's absolutely no way and have gotten, "I know! But the sex would be great!" http://homepage.mac.com/adriannep1/Smiles/Blink.gif It's time for you to go outside now.

Adrianne

Whoa... I think I have run across that once. And it's a bit scary... not the weird pairings thing but the "but the sex would be great" one.

But I agree with you FF, I don't ever try to tell anyone who they should be shipping. That's their right - just as long as they don't bug me about my ship or anti-ship preference.

JackandSamAddict
September 25th, 2006, 09:38 AM
I just absolutely HATE that she ONLY ever calls him "Sir" ... It drives me up a freakin' wall! THERE IS NO RELATIONSHIP, SEXUAL OR OTHER WISE, WHEN YOU CAN'T EVEN SAY A PERSON'S NAME! And don't even try to sell me on "It's a respect thing." BS.

I respect my priest too but I still call him by his given name, to his face even, because I consider him a FRIEND! If Sam and Jack had any kind of RELATIONSHIP she wouldn't be calling him "Sir" all the time. Oo it drives me up a wall.

Didn't she do it in the 200th episode too? Jack walked into the room and Daniel went, "Jack!" and Sam went, "Sir!" and then Jack's like, "Not any more," and Sam had to practically spit out his name ... I hate scenes like that.

Adrianne

If it's not a respect thing then it's the military thing, Jack calls Hammond 'Sir'

Frostfox
September 25th, 2006, 10:11 AM
If it's not a respect thing then it's the military thing, Jack calls Hammond 'Sir'

But Jack isn't supposed to be in love with Hammond.
She doesn't have to call him 'Sir' as any military personnel will tell you. They could call each other by their given names most of the time.

Being in love with someone who is your boss is a bad idea. There are such complicated issues of trust and implications of control, even more so in a military situation
Think about your boss at work. Shudder. Even if he was as cute as RDA, he's still the boss, he has control over you, over your day to day workings. I want a partner to be that, to be my partner, not to have control over me.

The regs are there for good reasons, not just to thwart the romantic interludes of a TV SF program. SG1 prided itself on being somewhat reallistic and adhering to to protocol, they were never going to show their characters in a relationship while both wear the US Airforce uniform. They have been teasing the fans of the relationship for years, unfairly really when it was clear that they weren't going to do anything until the absolute end.

FF

AdrianneP
September 25th, 2006, 10:21 AM
Agreed. But I wasn't going to say anything because of the person's Screen Name ...

Adrianne

Frostfox
September 25th, 2006, 10:33 AM
Agreed. But I wasn't going to say anything because of the person's Screen Name ...

Adrianne


Shrugs. She can have any screen name she likes as long as she's willing to debate with me.

I cut my fannish teeth on Usenet, I learnt early the art of disagreeing with people in an adult way and how much fun you can have debating with other interesting people.

FF :nox:

AdrianneP
September 25th, 2006, 10:36 AM
http://homepage.mac.com/adriannep1/Smiles/unsure.gif I still haven't mastered the skill of debate. I still end up curled up in a corner bawling my eyes out :) I hate debate.

Adrianne

Frostfox
September 25th, 2006, 10:43 AM
http://homepage.mac.com/adriannep1/Smiles/unsure.gif I still haven't mastered the skill of debate. I still end up curled up in a corner bawling my eyes out :) I hate debate.

Adrianne

Not everyone enjoys it.
I tend to think that everyone has a right to their opinion even if it differs from mine. What I won't endure is being told I'm wrong when the matter under discussion is purely subjective.

FF :nox:

maxbo
September 25th, 2006, 01:03 PM
Or viciously attack someone else's ship because even just the thought of your ship not being the only ship sets you into a fit of rage :rolleyes: :cool: Can't really grasp that one either.

My favorite thought has to be the *really* weird pairings that would never happy ... I've asked why that pairing as there's absolutely no way and have gotten, "I know! But the sex would be great!" http://homepage.mac.com/adriannep1/Smiles/Blink.gif It's time for you to go outside now.

Adrianne

I don't have a problem with those who ship "really weird" pairings because they usually realize that their ship of choice will never become canon and are more likely to relax and just have fun with it. They tend to see the fun in shipping and don't give a hoot about how many others feel the same way - an attitude that I wish all shippers could adopt.

I have yet to see a weird pairing shipper raise the kind of stink that some of the shippers who believe that they have "proof" of their ship have. And, the "sex would be great" reason is as good as any, IMO, after all, they're not talking about real people so what does the reason for shipping them matter to others?

Frostfox
September 25th, 2006, 01:20 PM
I don't have a problem with those who ship "really weird" pairings because they usually realize that their ship of choice will never become canon and are more likely to relax and just have fun with it. They tend to see the fun in shipping and don't give a hoot about how many others feel the same way - an attitude that I wish all shippers could adopt.

I have yet to see a weird pairing shipper raise the kind of stink that some of the shippers who believe that they have "proof" of their ship have. And, the "sex would be great" reason is as good as any, IMO, after all, they're not talking about real people so what does the reason for shipping them matter to others?

Slash should be fun. If it's not fun, you're not doing it right.
Ditto for sex, really.

I slashed Bashir/Sisco because they would have looked so good together. Mmm, oh yeah. Rare slash at it's finest.

And there are fan communities out there shipping and slashing characters from completely different shows set in different universes. Whatever floats your boat. I might not understand it but it's not for me to judge what they enjoy seeing.

The only thing I don't have time for is RPS (real person slash or ship) where people are talking about the actors rather than the characters.

The only time I worry about shippers is when they want RDA and AT together, when they can't seem to separate them from who they play on television.

There are several photos of them fooling about behind the scenes, the obviously get on well together and while I find S/J forced and charmless, it's nice that the actors get on so well.

But they aren't their characters, they are playing a part, when the show ends, they'll never act together again. AT is very happily married, RDA is a confimed bachelor, they both seem very happy with their life choices. And neither of them are Sam or Jack or anything like them in reallity. Actors. That's what they get paid for.

FF :nox:

maxbo
September 25th, 2006, 08:55 PM
I agree that slash, etc., should be fun otherwise, why bother? And, I've never had a problem with the shipping of characters from completely different fandoms because those who ship them usually see these characters as individuals first, and then as ship partners. Often when the shipped characters are in the same show/universe, then one ship partner tends to become the favorite and the other is mostly an appendage.

Regarding Real Person Shipping, I first came across hardcore Real Person Shipping a few years ago in another fandom and it was a creepy and eye-opening experience. Talk about looney tunes! :S There were a few posters in that fandom who would go from forum to forum and repeatedly insinuate things about the actors (despite warnings, bannings, etc.) that would squick any sane person out. I would be afraid for the actors if they met up with these out of touch souls.

It's too bad that some people can't separate fantasy from reality and understand that these people are professionals doing a job - period. If they get along well off screen then that's nice, but not necessary because I've loved couples who didn't get along in real life and I never knew this until years later. If I enjoy the on screen chemistry, then that's all that matters.

I'm pleased to say that I must not be getting out much among Stargate fandom because I haven't run across RPS here so far. I hope my good fortune continues.

JessM
September 26th, 2006, 06:22 AM
http://homepage.mac.com/adriannep1/Smiles/unsure.gif I still haven't mastered the skill of debate. I still end up curled up in a corner bawling my eyes out :) I hate debate.

Adrianne

I've never been very fond of it myself. Part of the reason is that I've always been a very sensitive person. If people want to debate constructively and in a respectful way, I have no problem with it (or not much of a problem). But too often I've run into people who become inflammatory and hurl personal attacks.

Jace021903
September 26th, 2006, 06:58 AM
The only thing I don't have time for is RPS (real person slash or ship) where people are talking about the actors rather than the characters.

The only time I worry about shippers is when they want RDA and AT together, when they can't seem to separate them from who they play on television.

There are several photos of them fooling about behind the scenes, the obviously get on well together and while I find S/J forced and charmless, it's nice that the actors get on so well.

But they aren't their characters, they are playing a part, when the show ends, they'll never act together again. AT is very happily married, RDA is a confimed bachelor, they both seem very happy with their life choices. And neither of them are Sam or Jack or anything like them in reallity. Actors. That's what they get paid for.

FF :nox:

Yeah, there are definately some people who cross a line. Maybe I'm just sensitive but there is something wrong to me to read shippy/slashy implications from a picture of two actors.

I've read comments that say things like it's too bad AT is married or wishing she would leave her husband so she and RDA could get together...
:eek:

Ship, slash, whatever, just keep a clear line between the characters and the actors.

AdrianneP
September 26th, 2006, 07:04 AM
I've read comments that say things like it's too bad AT is married or wishing she would leave her husband so she and RDA could get together...
:eek:

I feel the same way about the people that can't accept that RDA isn't on the show anymore and it was his choice that he left. It's like :eek: ...

I can't understand it, not for the life of me ...

Adrianne

JackandSamAddict
September 26th, 2006, 07:56 AM
But Jack isn't supposed to be in love with Hammond.
She doesn't have to call him 'Sir' as any military personnel will tell you. They could call each other by their given names most of the time.

Being in love with someone who is your boss is a bad idea. There are such complicated issues of trust and implications of control, even more so in a military situation
Think about your boss at work. Shudder. Even if he was as cute as RDA, he's still the boss, he has control over you, over your day to day workings. I want a partner to be that, to be my partner, not to have control over me.

The regs are there for good reasons, not just to thwart the romantic interludes of a TV SF program. SG1 prided itself on being somewhat reallistic and adhering to to protocol, they were never going to show their characters in a relationship while both wear the US Airforce uniform. They have been teasing the fans of the relationship for years, unfairly really when it was clear that they weren't going to do anything until the absolute end.

FF

I thought about the whole Jack isn't supposed to be in love with Hammond thing after I replied...but um I am a romantic at heart, and yes those regs are in place for a good reason.
I don't think that even if Sam and Jack did have a relationship (and I along with other shippers believe that they are together now) that he would do anything to compromise Sam's credibility or her military standing.
I don't think that Jack would use his power (being a superior officer to get her ahead in the AF)...that just isn't the kind of person he is; those regs are there, they prevent romantic interludes, but not romantic feelings, you can't help who you love and if you happen to fall in love with your 2IC or your CO than you could have some problems that could only be resolved with one of you quitting (or being in between jobs).

Racingtime
September 26th, 2006, 09:34 AM
Yeah, there are definately some people who cross a line. Maybe I'm just sensitive but there is something wrong to me to read shippy/slashy implications from a picture of two actors.

I've read comments that say things like it's too bad AT is married or wishing she would leave her husband so she and RDA could get together...
:eek:

Ship, slash, whatever, just keep a clear line between the characters and the actors.

I think the people who have always bothered me the most in that regard are the ones that really get furious if one of the actors doesn't say exactly what they want to hear. For example, on the 200th episode special Amanda said that her favorite kisses were with the the DeLuise brother who played Pete. I saw a lot of very angry and mean comments written towards Amanda from some Jack/Sam shippers who hated her for not saying that Richard was the best even though she fully explained her reasoning behind her choice.

Frostfox
September 26th, 2006, 10:32 AM
I don't think that even if Sam and Jack did have a relationship (and I along with other shippers believe that they are together now) that he would do anything to compromise Sam's credibility or her military standing.


I don't think Jack would deliberately either but it's all a matter of perception.
It would be perceived as nepotism, even if it wasn't. The non frat regs are there to protect Sam, not to thwart romantic leanings.
Just imagine, you work in the SGC. Even if Sam was no longer under his direct control, every promotion, every good report would be the talk of the watercooler. People talk about their coworkers, particularly in an enclosed, high stress enviroment like the SGC. And everyone knows about the no frat regs, it's no secret, there would always be some, less clever, less pretty than Sam who would love to tarnish her image.
Jack would also be hyperaware of her reputation and what even an hint of impropriety would do to her career prospects; being a woman trying to get up the promotion ladder (and Sam has always been portrayed as a career soldier) it's incredibly difficult to get ahead and getting ahead would give her more leeway to continue her research, more resorces and funding.



I don't think that Jack would use his power (being a superior officer to get her ahead in the AF)...that just isn't the kind of person he is; those regs are there, they prevent romantic interludes, but not romantic feelings, you can't help who you love and if you happen to fall in love with your 2IC or your CO than you could have some problems that could only be resolved with one of you quitting (or being in between jobs).

You can't help who you love but you can make mature decisions about what you do about it. People do all the time. They find themselves attracted to an inappropriate person, a boss, a married person, a priest, your 2IC or CO and they do the appropriate, the mature, the responsible thing. Sometimes that means removing yourself from the situation. Sometimes it means changing your situation so that it becomes more appropriate. In reality I would have expected Sam to transfer to another team or another base so the regs would stop being an issue but that would break up the TV show so the writers couldn't go down that route.

Feelings are important, strong feelings between people in a military unit are part of developing esprit de corps but Sam and Jack swore oaths to the US Airforce and they wouldn't be the people we think they are if they didn't uphold those oaths. Stargate prides itself on the support of the Airforce, the show wouldn't want to loose that.

I don't watch TV programs for romantic relationships (I watch very, very little TV at all, Stargate is the only program I'm into at the moment, for most of the week my TV is turned off, I'd rather listen to music and be on the iBook) but I don't usually actively campaign against romantic interludes, I tend to just ignore it. But the Sam and Jack stuff gives me ethical and moral problems just too big to conspicuous to avoid.

Women have fought long and hard to get a place in front line units and again and again they have had it thrown in their face that they would be a distraction to the men and Sam/Jack plays into that stereotype perfectly. Personally, I prefer a bit more imagination in my TV show than the leading man gets the girl, that just doesn't challenge the audience or the actors.

It's not just the Sam/Jack stuff which I disliked, they treated AT and Sam appallingly with all her relationships and the emphasis on them. I'm with Amanda Tapping when she said, near the start of the program, that they should just write Sam as they would one of the men and trust her to give Sam a feminine edge, there was no need to turn a professional woman into a simpering girl. And for Sam and Jack, I'd have prefered that they kept a mentor/student relationship and just dropped hints that people could have interpreted in whichever way they wanted to.

FF :nox:

Freekzilla
February 11th, 2007, 04:55 PM
OMG! THANK GOD ALMIGHTY I HAVE FOUND THE ANTI-SHIP THREAD, THANK GOD ALMIGHTY!

ok, I got that out. I feel better now. Is this a general anti-ship thread or a specific anti-ship thread? Is it anti-shipping the act of, or anti-ship of characters? Are we allowed to point and laugh, make fun of, and generally frown upon the act?

So what exactly is this thread all about?

Cory Holmes
February 11th, 2007, 05:51 PM
OMG! THANK GOD ALMIGHTY I HAVE FOUND THE ANTI-SHIP THREAD, THANK GOD ALMIGHTY!

You're welcome :p

Flowerbud
February 11th, 2007, 06:35 PM
Women have fought long and hard to get a place in front line units and again and again they have had it thrown in their face that they would be a distraction to the men and Sam/Jack plays into that stereotype perfectly.
FF :nox:

I can see what you are saying, but wouldn't it be great television to see the consequences of fraternization in the military setting. As a civilian, I would find it fascinating, especially if it is handled sensitively. Surely, there must be fraternization going on all the time in the military. Is it all just brushed under the rung? This would be a great way to let civilians understand what being in the military means and provoke a discussion on whether these rules make sense.

Freekzilla
February 11th, 2007, 07:58 PM
You're welcome :p

Oh so you're god huh? Well then, I have a few bones to pick with you.

1.) You just HAD to have the last 2 numbers on my lottery ticket be 1 number off didn't you? I'm sure you got quite a laugh out of that one. Ha...Ha, very funny. 4 correct numbers and I thought I was well on my way to being $100 million richer. But Noooooooooo! You've gotta mess with my head some more.

2.) I'm real sure you got a good laugh when that bird pooped on the whole 4 inches of my arm that was out my car window this summer. I mean, what are the odds that a bird 500 feet in the air could hit a 4 inch moving target?

The above items are real life events that have happened to me. Both turned an otherwise great day into a serious disappointment. Go ahead, laugh at my misery. I can laugh about it now.

Cory Holmes
February 11th, 2007, 08:30 PM
1.) You just HAD to have the last 2 numbers on my lottery ticket be 1 number off didn't you? I'm sure you got quite a laugh out of that one. Ha...Ha, very funny. 4 correct numbers and I thought I was well on my way to being $100 million richer. But Noooooooooo! You've gotta mess with my head some more.

Of course. If I didn't dangle that hope in front of people every now and then, they wouldn't keep playing.


2.) I'm real sure you got a good laugh when that bird pooped on the whole 4 inches of my arm that was out my car window this summer. I mean, what are the odds that a bird 500 feet in the air could hit a 4 inch moving target?

Apparently quite good?:cameron08:


I can laugh about it now.

Being able to laugh at something is the one true method of dealing with stress.

So why are you anti-ship?

Freekzilla
February 12th, 2007, 01:05 AM
Of course. If I didn't dangle that hope in front of people every now and then, they wouldn't keep playing.
Two stinkin numbers! 2!!! Just for that one, I'm sleeping in for the next few sundays, and I'm gonna drink all the sacrificial wine. So there.


Apparently quite good?:cameron08:
Ahhhh so you're a comedian too now huh? The Duck Bill Platypus wasn't enough I take it?


Being able to laugh at something is the one true method of dealing with stress.

So why are you anti-ship?[/QUOTE]

I'm not necessarily against the act, just the people who do it because I have had some bad experiences with them. They are very territorial and not nice if you disagree with them, at least in my experiences. I don't see the point of it, but was more of the "whatever" opinion before. It just has a very "Good ol' Boy" network feel to it. And I don't mean the southerner definition, but the "Members Only" club type of definition. Actually, now that I think about it, it definitely has a NY Yankees fan vs Boston Red Sox fan mojo about the whole situation, the Pro vs. Anti.

Does that explain it?

Commander Ivanova
February 12th, 2007, 06:06 AM
I'm not very fond of ship in general. Partly because the way it's written is usually toe-curlingly awful. Partly because it tends to be at the expense of other potentially more interesting stuff going on in an episode.

I am, though, fairly partial to a spot of light-hearted behind-the-scenes slashing.

But what annoys me about shipping is certain rabid shippers who cannot tolerate any view different from their own. If you've been on this forum any length of time you'll have come across one or more of the species.

Frostfox
February 12th, 2007, 08:50 AM
Some wise soul, possibly on this thread, pointed out that most shippers are anti-shippers too, for any ship which isn't theirs.

FF :nox:

Commander Ivanova
February 12th, 2007, 09:02 AM
Some wise soul, possibly on this thread, pointed out that most shippers are anti-shippers too, for any ship which isn't theirs.

FF :nox:

True. Are you sure that wise soul wasn't you, Frostfox, and you're not just being deliberately/uncharacteristically/unintentionally* modest?

* delete as appropriate

Frostfox
February 12th, 2007, 09:56 AM
True. Are you sure that wise soul wasn't you, Frostfox, and you're not just being deliberately/uncharacteristically/unintentionally* modest?

* delete as appropriate

Laughs, no, wasn't me.
But it is true. Even the most devout shipper, indeed, the more devout the shipper, the more of an anti-shipper they seem to be towards other pairings.


OMG! THANK GOD ALMIGHTY I HAVE FOUND THE ANTI-SHIP THREAD, THANK GOD ALMIGHTY!

ok, I got that out. I feel better now. Is this a general anti-ship thread or a specific anti-ship thread? Is it anti-shipping the act of, or anti-ship of characters? Are we allowed to point and laugh, make fun of, and generally frown upon the act?

So what exactly is this thread all about?

Deep breaths, Freek! You'll hyperventillate.
This is a general anti-ship thread, there is also an Anti Sam/Jack thread out there, most of us post in both of them, though, thankfully, there hasn't been any Sam/Jack rubbish in the last two seasons Not counting the wedding in 200 which was, like the whole episode, just sillyness, and gave we Jack/Daniel slashers the most fabulous screen caps of them at the altar.
There are all sorts here, the only rule is not to bash the shippers themselves. There are quite a few of us who don't mind shipping of any type in fanfic, where you can pick and choose what you read and it doesn't spoil the show.


I can see what you are saying, but wouldn't it be great television to see the consequences of fraternization in the military setting. As a civilian, I would find it fascinating, especially if it is handled sensitively. Surely, there must be fraternization going on all the time in the military. Is it all just brushed under the rung? This would be a great way to let civilians understand what being in the military means and provoke a discussion on whether these rules make sense.

I'd find it interesting but they wouldn't go there in a show such as Stargate, and it would be the end of Sam's career, whichever way it went and I don't want that for her. But in truth, all of SG1 are too close to each other, they should never go to Jack's house or the cabin or hang out with him out of work according to the frat regs.


I'm not very fond of ship in general. Partly because the way it's written is usually toe-curlingly awful. Partly because it tends to be at the expense of other potentially more interesting stuff going on in an episode.

I am, though, fairly partial to a spot of light-hearted behind-the-scenes slashing.

But what annoys me about shipping is certain rabid shippers who cannot tolerate any view different from their own. If you've been on this forum any length of time you'll have come across one or more of the species.

This place is a picnic compared to some others on the net, but yes, there are some folk who are a bit scary and seem to have a problem with reality, I think the ones who worry my most are those who can't tell the difference between a picture of RDA/AT and a picture of Jack/Sam*

*or any other pairing of actors/characters.

FF :nox:

Commander Ivanova
February 12th, 2007, 12:15 PM
This place is a picnic compared to some others on the net, but yes, there are some folk who are a bit scary and seem to have a problem with reality, I think the ones who worry my most are those who can't tell the difference between a picture of RDA/AT and a picture of Jack/Sam*

*or any other pairing of actors/characters.

FF :nox:

I really really don't want to visit those other places then. Thank god for the relatively sanity of GW.

Cory Holmes
February 12th, 2007, 02:06 PM
Thank god for the relatively sanity of GW.
You're also welcome :D

Frostfox
February 12th, 2007, 02:07 PM
.

It's human nature to want to want positive reinforcement.
Hanging about with others who share your opinion is comforting and safe.

But it's also limiting, you can start to believe that everyone thinks like you.
This board is very 'ship' friendly but it's not the be-all and end-all of Stargate fandom or necessarily important to most people who watch the show.
Most viewers, millions and millions of them, have never been here and may have very different views of Stargate to those of us here.
I think that if you only hang about with with people who have the same views as yourself, you are limiting your enjoyment by cutting out any healthy debate and other people's opinions which you might not agree with but which might enhance and add to your enjoyment of the program by encouraging you to widen your viewing horizons and by learning that other fans opinions, while not necessarily the same as your own, also have vadility and weight.

I'm sure Sony/MGM/Bridge have done focus group studies on what viewers of the show are really interested in; it's the norm now with a profitable product such as the Stargate franchise. What might appear to be arbitary decisions to us, most likely have been justified by number crunchers and analysed and dissected and discussed. They are corperate decisions based on hard money, not fannish romantic yearnings. If they thought it would have paid off, Jack would have shagged Sam on the gate ramp years ago, regulations be damned.

FF :nox:

Madeleine
February 12th, 2007, 02:30 PM
But what annoys me about shipping is certain rabid shippers who cannot tolerate any view different from their own. If you've been on this forum any length of time you'll have come across one or more of the species.

Those are few and far between. As you say, "length of time", and "one or more"; not "instant" and "heaps and heaps" :)

There are, however, people who think there are more of the rabid shippers than there really are. Where people have got their impressions of shippers from the episode threads or whatever, they tend to understand shippers as beings capable of coping with dissent. Travelling around the Shippy threads however can be a bit... strange for the uninitiated. There's a lot of banter and hyperbole (which is NOT a criticism, cos if it was I'd have to plead guilty to leaving both bantery and hyperbolic posts in a particular thread myself) but it's sort of an 'insider' thing; and the sentiments behind it tend to be fun and jokey and if you know the crowd and the atmosphere it is clear that it's none too serious... but more than once I've seen a demi-troll come in to one or other thread, take everything too seriously and then go off on the thread's inhabitants for taking the ship too seriously...

People who visit shippy threads without having the inclination to get the feel of the place, or who simply don't 'get' the tone can leap to conclusions about 'rabid' or 'delusional' or 'obsessive' shippers when the shippers in question are as mild as pasta but like to egg each other on for larks. Statements like "It's SOOOO obvious" mean one thing when directed at fellow enthusiasts, but are sometimes read as another thing entirely when a visitor sees it.

Honestly, I think that the only place where an anti-shipper / non-shipper is likely to find intolderance is if they post disparate views in the dedicated pro-ship threads - and why not? There's places in this forum to diss the ships and there's places to discuss freely and there's places for positive shippiness.

Rather like my borough has a Roundhead (Eng. Civil war parliamentary party) Re-enactment Group and a Cavalier Re-enactment Group (royalists); and each group meets separately to share ideas, and each group meets with the other group at historical fairs to pretend to bash the daylights out of the others and to make grandstanding speeches about their opponents' folly, and they all think it's a great romp: but individual members of one group who went to a private meeting of the other and told them that their feathers were silly or that their puritanism was OTT would not really be welcome.

(If this seems a bit preachy, sorry folks, it's partially in reply to an extremly rude post that replied to the post I've quoted, and which I snipped from the thread cos it not only misrepresented shippers in general it came across as horribly disrespectful and not even vaguely PG.)

Frostfox
February 12th, 2007, 02:45 PM
Rather like my borough has a Roundhead (Eng. Civil war rebels) Re-enactment Group and a Cavalier Re-enactment Group (royalists); and each group meets separately to share ideas, and each group meets with the other group at historical fairs to pretend to bash the daylights out of the others and to make grandstanding speeches about their opponents' folly, and they all think it's a great lark: but individual members of one group who went to a private meeting of the other and told them that their feathers were silly or that their puritanism was OTT would not really be welcome.


Madam! As a trollop for the New Model Army and for Parliament, I strongly object to casting our noble troops as rebels. We fight for God and Parliament! :P

FF :nox: who used to be in John Brights regiment of the ECWS.

Madeleine
February 12th, 2007, 03:19 PM
Sorry! I've corrected it.

I'm afraid that, unlike most periods of English History, I've relied rather heavily on Messrs Sellars & Yeatman for my understanding of the civil war (well, apart from watching men in funny clothes bashing each other and falling down on rainy hillsides on the Somerset-Gloucester border) so all I know is that the Roundheads were Right but Repulsive and the Cavaliers were Wrong but Wromantic. Oh, and Charles I talked for five minutes after his head was cut off.

So I bow to your superior wisdom :D

Where am I now? Oh yes. Er, down with ship, platonic friendships rule, all that jazz...

JessM
February 12th, 2007, 03:46 PM
I'm not very fond of ship in general. Partly because the way it's written is usually toe-curlingly awful. Partly because it tends to be at the expense of other potentially more interesting stuff going on in an episode.

I am, though, fairly partial to a spot of light-hearted behind-the-scenes slashing.

But what annoys me about shipping is certain rabid shippers who cannot tolerate any view different from their own. If you've been on this forum any length of time you'll have come across one or more of the species.

Heh - I haven't been on this thread in ages... but I have to agree with you. Yeah I know my sig paints me as a shipper and...well yeah I sort of am, but I save it mostly for fanfiction and I'm more of a "friendshipper" and fan of the team dynamic onscreen. I've met a few of these rabid shippers and they harassed me to such a point that I had to put them on Ignore. I've also met shippers who were pretty respectful.

It seems to me that the more a pairing is heavily featured, the more rabid its shippers (or at least some of its shippers) get. I've noticed this with Daniel/Vala recently (although as I just said I did meet some of those shippers who were respectful). Being that I ship Daniel/Sam, I've known for quite some time that the ship would never become canon, so I've just learned to have fun with it and enjoy the little moments of friendship. I've also met people who insist that a certain ship is canon. I tell them it's a matter of opinion, and they say it is not and then give me a long list of "proof" of the canon. There's just no sense arguing with people like that and I cut them off.

Sometimes I wish people wouldn't get so obsessed with the whole thing; it takes the fun out of it.

Commander Ivanova
February 13th, 2007, 12:41 AM
People who visit shippy threads without having the inclination to get the feel of the place, or who simply don't 'get' the tone can leap to conclusions about 'rabid' or 'delusional' or 'obsessive' shippers when the shippers in question are as mild as pasta but like to egg each other on for larks.

It's one thing when posters on a thread josh between themselves but quite another when they instantly turn on newcomers for making a faux pas while trying to find their feet. Several threads on this forum are scary places if you're not one of the in-crowd. And not just the shipping threads.

Cory Holmes
February 13th, 2007, 02:29 AM
Several threads on this forum are scary places if you're not one of the in-crowd. And not just the shipping threads.
And that's different from the Real World... how?

Commander Ivanova
February 13th, 2007, 02:58 AM
And that's different from the Real World... how?

Well I guess it ain't that different really. Sad but true.

I like what JessM says about people taking things too seriously and taking the fun out of it. My view exactly. Would green both of you but I've been too promiscuous recently. ;)

JessM
February 13th, 2007, 04:08 AM
Heh, no problem :D And thank you!

To me some people defend these things to other shippers or non-shippers as if they knew the characters personally - like they were real people who were friends of theirs, neighbors, relatives, etc. And I've also met people who nearly blur the line between characters and the actors that play them (met a couple of Daniel/Vala shippers not just here but at other places who gush over the fact that MS gushes over CB and, besides wanting the characters to get together, seem to want the actors to as well -despite the fact that both are married and have children). Definitely appears to be one of the signs of the whole thing getting out of hand.

It's not healthy to be so invested in it. Step back and have fun with it - don't get so defensive over it and act like it's the only major thing in your life (and I'm not saying this about all shippers - just the extremely rabid "I'm right, you're wrong and I must change you" ones).

Frostfox
February 13th, 2007, 04:14 AM
Sorry! I've corrected it.
So I bow to your superior wisdom :D

Where am I now? Oh yes. Er, down with ship, platonic friendships rule, all that jazz...

Eek, sorry, I was joking! No need to amend your post.

And, yes, platonic friendships are the best, it's all about team.

FF :nox:

Madeleine
February 13th, 2007, 04:18 AM
It's one thing when posters on a thread josh between themselves but quite another when they instantly turn on newcomers for making a faux pas while trying to find their feet. Several threads on this forum are scary places if you're not one of the in-crowd. And not just the shipping threads.

All of the shipper threads will be happy to welcome newcomers into the 'in' crowd if the newcomer is nice.

And for my part, I think the act of sitting in Thread N and pontificating on the inferiority of posters in unspecified Threads X, Y and Z is not terribly friendly either. So let's leave off, eh? :)

Commander Ivanova
February 13th, 2007, 05:25 AM
All of the shipper threads will be happy to welcome newcomers into the 'in' crowd if the newcomer is nice.

And for my part, I think the act of sitting in Thread N and pontificating on the inferiority of posters in unspecified Threads X, Y and Z is not terribly friendly either. So let's leave off, eh? :)

Nice? It's my middle name. ;)
Fair enough, guess I'm still smarting from my last encounter.

Freekzilla
February 14th, 2007, 04:10 PM
Well Anti-shippers. I knew you so little time. But it's been fun. Take care and keep the Anti-ship sanity alive. Perhaps we'll meet again in some other galaxy. 'Til then, take care. Now, I must sign off the air for good. Best wishes to all.

Freekzilla

JessM
February 15th, 2007, 06:49 AM
Aw gee, you're leaving? I haven't been here very much but it's sad to see anyone leaving.

Happy trails to you and thanks for sticking around a bit. :)

Killdeer
February 15th, 2007, 03:52 PM
Hi - here's me signing on for the anti-shipper thread. I'm pretty new at this posting thing, but I've made a few posts now and haven't gotten my head bit off yet, so... :)

I've been lurking for a few years now, but haven't spent much time in the Characters and Relationships section, mainly because everytime I poked my head in, it was SHIP SHIP SHIP....all kinds of ship. Well, interspersed with the Thunking and Whumping, and I was too embarrassed to admit I didn't have a clue what that meant. :o (I've figured it out by now - don't worry)

I was thinking tonight about a good friend who frequently posts on an anti-ship thread on a Smallville forum, and it occurred to me - with all these ship threads, there's got to be an anti-ship thread around here somewhere! So here I am! I don't know if y'all take members, but if you do, sign me up!

My Motto: Keep Atlantis Ship-Free!

<looks around> Is that acceptable to post here? I can take it down if not!

Commander Ivanova
February 16th, 2007, 01:20 AM
Welcome, Killdeer, you can say what you like here.

JessM
February 16th, 2007, 03:43 AM
Welcome, killdeer! :)

Cory Holmes
February 16th, 2007, 04:50 AM
I suppose I should clarify why I'm here. Ship is acceptable in fanfic form and little more. I love reading about my favourite pairing online, but in no way do I want it to happen on the show itself. At least, not more than I already read into the show :)

JessM
February 16th, 2007, 04:17 PM
Hey, Cory. That's pretty much how I feel as well. :) I am more of a FRIENDshipper on the show. I love all the friendships (although I do have my favorites) and the team dynamic, and I save my shipping mostly for fanfiction as well.

grasshopper64
February 17th, 2007, 02:37 AM
I'm glad this thread is active again, like most people here I want shipping between any characters to be left to fanfic and not happen onscreen.

I can't help but be a bit nervous about what they will do in Unending

This whole being stuck on a spaceship for 50 years and "exploring the team relationships" or something like that, plus MS saying they will explore a bit of Daniel/Vala (whatever that means). You never know what TPTB will do, but the fact that the reset button will be hit at the end of this ep and it'll be like it never happened, they'll use it as an excuse to throw in some shipping.
Spare me please:) Come on this is the final ever episode of SG1, don't waste it on ship:P
sorry had to rant a little...

discodiva
February 17th, 2007, 02:49 AM
I'm glad this thread is active again, like most people here I want shipping between any characters to be left to fanfic and not happen onscreen.

I can't help but be a bit nervous about what they will do in Unending

This whole being stuck on a spaceship for 50 years and "exploring the team relationships" or something like that, plus MS saying they will explore a bit of Daniel/Vala (whatever that means). You never know what TPTB will do, but the fact that the reset button will be hit at the end of this ep and it'll be like it never happened, they'll use it as an excuse to throw in some shipping.
Spare me please:) Come on this is the final ever episode of SG1, don't waste it on ship:P
sorry had to rant a little...

I'm resigned to them putting some kind of "Romantic Ship" in Unending.....I'm expecting it to be ruined like the "Desert Scene" in Moebius was for me, where all the important stuff like the "2nd" Teal'c and the "Original" Daniel's great victory with the rebels over Ra's Jaffa was glossed over for a few ridiculously comic moments from "Geeky" Sam and "Revolting" Jack (my words because imho that AU Jack was NOTHING LIKE "Original" Jack from the past 7 seasons...:S ) in that Puddle Jumper....:rolleyes: ....

If they stick "Romantic Ship" in Unending at least I'll be prepared for it so I can make sure I flit over to my "silly side" and watch it for what it is..........Silly.....:P

Don't get me wrong ...I LOVE good friendship scenes in SG-1....amongst any pairing....it's when it goes OTT in the Romance stakes I run screaming for the hills!.....:P


Deeds xx

Frostfox
February 17th, 2007, 08:44 AM
Don't get me wrong ...I LOVE good friendship scenes in SG-1....amongst any pairing....it's when it goes OTT in the Romance stakes I run screaming for the hills!.....:P


Deeds xx

It wouldn't be so bad if they made a half way decent job of it. They can't write romance to save their lives, it's just not well written.

FF :nox:

JessM
February 17th, 2007, 01:41 PM
I'm glad this thread is active again, like most people here I want shipping between any characters to be left to fanfic and not happen onscreen.

I can't help but be a bit nervous about what they will do in Unending

This whole being stuck on a spaceship for 50 years and "exploring the team relationships" or something like that, plus MS saying they will explore a bit of Daniel/Vala (whatever that means). You never know what TPTB will do, but the fact that the reset button will be hit at the end of this ep and it'll be like it never happened, they'll use it as an excuse to throw in some shipping.
Spare me please:) Come on this is the final ever episode of SG1, don't waste it on ship:P
sorry had to rant a little...

I just posted about this over at the "My reasons for Anti-Daniel/Vala" thread, but I feel the same way.

That does seem to be their excuse for trying things like this, just like they did in Moebius Part 2 ... "oh we can just reset it at the end so both the shippers and non-shippers will be happy!" I read a comment that I believe RCC made about Unending, that they're making it a team episode because they know there are so many fans of the team. If they were exploring the relationships between each team member on a fairly equal basis, I wouldn't object. However, taking MS' comments and other spoilers I've read about it, it makes it seem like they will just focus on a Daniel/Vala relationship.... no Daniel/Teal'c, Daniel/Sam, Daniel/Cam, Vala/Cam, Vala/Teal'c, Vala/Sam... well, you get the idea. ;)

I agree - it's the final episode and I think there should be at least some tribute paid to Daniel, Sam and Teal'c together. I mean, they've been friends for ten years now and have been through so much together. There should be something in there for the three of them, but I just have a bad feeling that they'll focus on the 'ship instead. And then there is that quote some time back from TV Guide: "There will be a touch of romance in the air as two fan favorites finally lock lips (but we're sworn to secrecy)." A friend of mine thought they were talking about Cam and Vala, that she thought she saw a clip of them kissing. Bounty has come and gone and there was no kiss, so I'm now assuming they're talking about a Daniel/Vala kiss in Unending.

No problem, rant away! Heck I've done more than my fair share ;)


I'm resigned to them putting some kind of "Romantic Ship" in Unending.....I'm expecting it to be ruined like the "Desert Scene" in Moebius was for me, where all the important stuff like the "2nd" Teal'c and the "Original" Daniel's great victory with the rebels over Ra's Jaffa was glossed over for a few ridiculously comic moments from "Geeky" Sam and "Revolting" Jack (my words because imho that AU Jack was NOTHING LIKE "Original" Jack from the past 7 seasons...:S ) in that Puddle Jumper....:rolleyes: ....

If they stick "Romantic Ship" in Unending at least I'll be prepared for it so I can make sure I flit over to my "silly side" and watch it for what it is..........Silly.....:P

Don't get me wrong ...I LOVE good friendship scenes in SG-1....amongst any pairing....it's when it goes OTT in the Romance stakes I run screaming for the hills!.....:P


Deeds xx

You have a good point, Deeds. That desert scene in Moebius Part 2 was ruined for me too. I suppose it would be silly not to expect them to do almost the same thing with Unending. I guess the thing that has me sort of riled up about it is that it seems like a big waste to devote their final episode to ship just to please one faction of fans.

See, if they just stuck to good friendship scenes between everybody, I would be fine with it. But going OTT with the romance because the episode is set up with a "failsafe" of sorts to allow them to get away with it is so annoying. And it's bad enough to have the shippers gloating about how their pairing was shown and how it's now canon, or whatever. :rolleyes:

Killdeer
February 18th, 2007, 06:16 PM
Hello again everyone, and thanks for the welcome! Wow, this thread gets pushed down pretty fast, doesn't it?

I suppose I should clarify my anti-ship position a little. I'm not really pro-ship in either SG-1 or Atlantis. Unfortunately for me the writers of SG-1 have not agreed with me, and Sam/Jack is more or less canon at this point, although I don't care for that pairing.

In Atlantis, on the other hand, I feel like we still have a strong team vibe going on. Yeah there are hints of possible attractions here and there between various characters, but as long as that's where it stays I'm happy. I suppose I'm afraid that once a particular pairing is made canon, it will split the whole group dynamic. I want the team family to stay the focus, not one particular ship or another.

I hope I don't sound overly whiny here. I'm just hoping going into Season four we can continue to keep Atlantis ship-free. I guess I'm a little nervous remembering that Season four of SG-1 was when Sam/Jack became canon, and I'm hoping the writers don't take us down that road again.

As to why I have such a problem with Sam/Jack, well, there's probably lots of reasons, but here's two. One, I felt like the writers focused on Sam's love life as a substitute for true character development. I'd rather not see that happen with say, Teyla, for example. And two, I've always had a hangup with superior/subordinate relationships. I didn't like it on Stargate, I didn't like it on House (which I no longer watch), and I didn't like it on Without A Trace, even though it was a past relationship.

Hope this makes sense and is not offensive to anyone! Here's to keeping the anti-ship thread alive and well! :)

Cory Holmes
February 18th, 2007, 10:09 PM
and Sam/Jack is more or less canon at this point, although I don't care for that pairing.

Don't worry, soon Sam will join Atlantis and the writers will focus on hooking her up with McKay and completly forget any Jack and Sam history in doing so.

As an avid, rabid, and fanatical anti-Sam'nSir person, I can only see this as a good thing.

Killdeer
February 18th, 2007, 10:54 PM
Don't worry, soon Sam will join Atlantis and the writers will focus on hooking her up with McKay and completly forget any Jack and Sam history in doing so.

As an avid, rabid, and fanatical anti-Sam'nSir person, I can only see this as a good thing.


:( Oh I so hope not, even though I'm pretty adamantly against Sam/Jack myself. I love Atlantis, and McKay/Carter, or even Sheppard/Carter, would really put a huge damper on my enjoyment of the show. Although I don't honestly see the second one happening. The first could be possible-though I hope not.

I think the most likely possibility is Sheppard/Teyla, even though I'm hoping I'm wrong. Sheppard is their lead, and Teyla has been so underused that the writers may feel that putting her in a relationship with John might be a way to give her some character development. In Sunday, there was a scene that hinted of Teyla's interest in someone, but they didn't tell us who. And then we had the scene with Ronan asking John if he was interested in Teyla. That could be interpreted a variety of ways, but it did make me a little tiny bit nervous

I guess we'll have to see. Here's me still holding out hope for a ship-less Season 4. (except for friendship of course).

Cory Holmes
February 19th, 2007, 01:20 AM
Yeah, that's one of the downsides to the Stargate franchise. They follow the standard Hollywood rule that Male Lead + Female Lead = Smoochies. While SGA is saved by the fact that there is no real definable "lead actor/character", I still see TPTB walloping us over the head with the Ship-by-Four and have been right from the start.

I was most disappointed with the Pierre Bernard interview when he asked if Weir was ever going to fight Teyla to the death for Sheppard's affections. It saddened me that people were expected Atlantis to be as boringly predictable as every other TV show in existance.

Col. Shadow Quinn
February 19th, 2007, 02:27 AM
LOL! That’s a good one. The only ship left in the movie was the ship between the ship and the iceberg and even that ended badly. :D (not funny, I know, but that movie is kind of like the perfect analogy for anti-ship. Both the literal ship and the relationship sucked, and both sank in the end. Yeah her “heart went on” (or however the song went) but Leo was dead. It takes two to tango.)

The iceberg was my favorite character. ;) The movie got better when it showed up.

Me too. I liked the part where people were falling and hitting parts of the ship. That was the greatest part of Titanic.

Frostfox
February 19th, 2007, 02:50 AM
Yeah, that's one of the downsides to the Stargate franchise. They follow the standard Hollywood rule that Male Lead + Female Lead = Smoochies. While SGA is saved by the fact that there is no real definable "lead actor/character", I still see TPTB walloping us over the head with the Ship-by-Four and have been right from the start.


One of my reasons for disliking Sam&Jack is that I really like Sam in particular and find the relationship to be very detrimental to her character, in part because of how it was written and in part because of confirming all the stereotypes about a woman working on the front line being a distraction to the men they work with. Which is bollox, but not helped by TV shows such as Stargate perpetuating the myth.
The idea of Sam'nSir pushes all my squick buttons (along with Jack being of her father's generation, but that's another issue) and even if they were no longer working together, it would be the death knell of her marvelous career, which is utterly unfair, particularly as the chances are, it would hardly impact on Jack's career. And it would follow her wherever she went - 'That's Sam O'Neill, you know how she got those promotions, he was her boss at the time, etc, etc.' It's not fair, it's not true, but it's what would happen. And I hate to think of Sam being remembered for marrying the boss, rather for being a top knotch soldier and scientist.


I was most disappointed with the Pierre Bernard interview when he asked if Weir was ever going to fight Teyla to the death for Sheppard's affections. It saddened me that people were expected Atlantis to be as boringly predictable as every other TV show in existance.

I don't watch Atlantis, must get round to it! (I don't watch much TV) But, considering the pigs ear they made of the relationships on SG1, I feel nothing but sympathy for the fans who don't want any part of the relationship circus which so distracts so much from the shows.

FF :nox:

Killdeer
February 19th, 2007, 03:23 PM
The idea of Sam'nSir pushes all my squick buttons (along with Jack being of her father's generation, but that's another issue)

Wow - I thought it was just me. The whole Jack/Sam thing always made me think "wow, Carter's got some serious Daddy issues here." Not to mention the squick of such a competant professional woman having a crush on her boss. Because honestly, that's all it ever seemed like to me. A crush on Carter's side, and some middle-aged fantasies on Jack's side. I never got any sense of deep undying passion, even if the whole scenario hadn't been terribly inappropriate.

I guess my fear, if I haven't said it before, is that making any particular ship canon for Atlantis will weaken the show. TPTB haven't been good at selling romance in SG1 -IMO it's weakened the team and the whole show whenever it was made the focus. I don't want to see Atlantis go down that same road, with Shep/Teyla or whatever pairing might become the focus. We've barely gotten to know Teyla, but she doesn't deserve what Sam went through. She's a strong woman, a warrior, a leader. She is owed some character development, but putting her in a relationship with someone is not the way to do that.

JessM
February 19th, 2007, 04:05 PM
Hello again everyone, and thanks for the welcome! Wow, this thread gets pushed down pretty fast, doesn't it?

I suppose I should clarify my anti-ship position a little. I'm not really pro-ship in either SG-1 or Atlantis. Unfortunately for me the writers of SG-1 have not agreed with me, and Sam/Jack is more or less canon at this point, although I don't care for that pairing.

In Atlantis, on the other hand, I feel like we still have a strong team vibe going on. Yeah there are hints of possible attractions here and there between various characters, but as long as that's where it stays I'm happy. I suppose I'm afraid that once a particular pairing is made canon, it will split the whole group dynamic. I want the team family to stay the focus, not one particular ship or another.

That is one thing that I love about Atlantis, and why - to be honest - I've been enjoying it a bit more than SG-1 lately. There does seem to be more of a team vibe there. In SG-1 it's like they're all fragmented. There is Cam and Teal'c as one part, Daniel and Vala as another, and Sam on her own. There have been one or two nice team episodes this season, but that's about it.


I hope I don't sound overly whiny here. I'm just hoping going into Season four we can continue to keep Atlantis ship-free. I guess I'm a little nervous remembering that Season four of SG-1 was when Sam/Jack became canon, and I'm hoping the writers don't take us down that road again.

As to why I have such a problem with Sam/Jack, well, there's probably lots of reasons, but here's two. One, I felt like the writers focused on Sam's love life as a substitute for true character development. I'd rather not see that happen with say, Teyla, for example. And two, I've always had a hangup with superior/subordinate relationships. I didn't like it on Stargate, I didn't like it on House (which I no longer watch), and I didn't like it on Without A Trace, even though it was a past relationship.

Hope this makes sense and is not offensive to anyone! Here's to keeping the anti-ship thread alive and well! :)

No offense taken at all! If you want to hear whiny, you should hear me on various threads :o I got into a huge argument with a S/J shipper on another site who kept insisting it was canon and gave me all this proof. If people want to ship that way then fine, but they were pretty rude about it and acted like they wanted to convert me.

To tell the truth, I'm more annoyed about Daniel/Vala this season than about Sam/Jack. While I don't ship S/J, it seems to have taken a back seat this season (with the exception of 200 I guess, but even that I didn't take very seriously) and Daniel/Vala has been practically forced down our throats. Having Vala paired with Daniel all the time leaves little in the way of character development for her, like her interaction with him is all that defines her character. I like it when she's allowed to interact with other people, and I hope we continue to see that.

JessM
February 19th, 2007, 05:02 PM
Me too. I liked the part where people were falling and hitting parts of the ship. That was the greatest part of Titanic.

:lol: you guys. I have to say I agree there...

Cory Holmes
February 19th, 2007, 05:15 PM
The reason Sam'n'Sir hits all of my buttons in the wrong way is how I was introduced to the show. I didn't really get into Stargate until Season 7 was airing. I caught an episode on TV and started to read more about it and ran smack-dab into the shippers.

Rabid much?

Everywhere I turned, Sam&Jack was thrown in my face with all the grace of something you'd scrape off the bottom of your shoe. Even now, it's virtually impossible to find a fanfic or page or anything with Sam as the star without having Jack tag along for the ride. I felt like it was being pushed on me without allowing me to make my own choices, and that kept me from actually watching the show for a long time. It wasn't until Atlantis aired and I realized how good a show it is that I went back to SG-1 to get my Stargate fix (and I now proudly own the whole series on DVD save fo S8) and was quite surprised at how little overt Sam'n'Sir there is in the show (save for a few... unmentionable... episodes).

Add to that my extreme distaste in the standard Hollywood formula that almost every TV show/movie/whatnot seems to follow (c'mon, a little originality wouldn't hurt) and you come up with an answer that says: NO TO SAM'N'SIR!


Me too. I liked the part where people were falling and hitting parts of the ship. That was the greatest part of Titanic.
No, no, no. The greatest part of Titanic was the ending credits, when my pain and agony was finished and I could finally escape the hell that the last three terrible hours had been.

Killdeer
February 19th, 2007, 05:30 PM
No, no, no. The greatest part of Titanic was the ending credits, when my pain and agony was finished and I could finally escape the hell that the last three terrible hours had been.

(snickering) I think I'm one of the only people in the world who has never had the pleasure(?) of seeing Titanic. Somehow I just never had the desire to. Can't say I regret it after reading comments like yours. (still laughing)

Cory Holmes
February 19th, 2007, 05:35 PM
(snickering) I think I'm one of the only people in the world who has never had the pleasure(?) of seeing Titanic. Somehow I just never had the desire to. Can't say I regret it after reading comments like yours. (still laughing)

Oh, sure, mock my pain! My girlfriend dragged me to it, kicking and screaming the whole way (I threw a temper tantrum of truely childish proportions). It was not a fun time had by all.

Killdeer
February 19th, 2007, 05:59 PM
Oh, sure, mock my pain! My girlfriend dragged me to it, kicking and screaming the whole way (I threw a temper tantrum of truely childish proportions). It was not a fun time had by all.

Ok, that's not helping the laughing. :D Although I do feel your pain, even while I laugh at it <grin>.

JessM
February 20th, 2007, 03:45 AM
The reason Sam'n'Sir hits all of my buttons in the wrong way is how I was introduced to the show. I didn't really get into Stargate until Season 7 was airing. I caught an episode on TV and started to read more about it and ran smack-dab into the shippers.

Rabid much?

Ouch I feel your pain. I got into the show a year earlier, thanks in part to a friend of mine who was into Sam/Jack. She wasn't really that rabid though and didn't force me to see things her way. There are some shippers who try not to ram their ideology down everyone's throats, but of course to make up for them, there are those who do (they may not be that large in numbers, but the number that are there are very noisy and vocal).

I haven't met too many of them, but I did get the occasional flame on fanfiction.net and my like-minded friends have gotten it worse as well ("do you have your head buried so deeply into the sand that you can't see Sam and Jack are meant to be???"). I think most of the people who are like that are either very young/immature, or are way too emotionally invested in this sort of thing and take it too seriously.


Everywhere I turned, Sam&Jack was thrown in my face with all the grace of something you'd scrape off the bottom of your shoe. Even now, it's virtually impossible to find a fanfic or page or anything with Sam as the star without having Jack tag along for the ride. I felt like it was being pushed on me without allowing me to make my own choices, and that kept me from actually watching the show for a long time. It wasn't until Atlantis aired and I realized how good a show it is that I went back to SG-1 to get my Stargate fix (and I now proudly own the whole series on DVD save fo S8) and was quite surprised at how little overt Sam'n'Sir there is in the show (save for a few... unmentionable... episodes).

Add to that my extreme distaste in the standard Hollywood formula that almost every TV show/movie/whatnot seems to follow (c'mon, a little originality wouldn't hurt) and you come up with an answer that says: NO TO SAM'N'SIR!

Oh, I know. The Sam/Jack faction of the online fandom is HUGE. There are lots of websites, fanfics, music videos, etc etc etc. The worst thing is reading a fanfic that you think is gen and then oops, find some ship snuck into it. I just read one not too long ago that I thought was gen because no pairings were mentioned, and they mentioned something about Jack being worried about Sam because if he doesn't get her back, there goes his last chance at a relationship (and about how they both wanted a romantic relationship but felt content to wait). No offense against people who like that sort of thing, but if you're going to write a fic and stick some ship in it, at least make a note of it. </end smallish rant>

I agree - it seems mostly relegated to subtext (with the exception of those unmentionable episodes you.... mentioned). That was the thing I liked about the show back in earlier days. Now it seems like we're being hit over the head with Daniel/Vala (aka "Vaniel") and being told to like it or else. Daniel is interacting less and less with Mitchell and his two old friends, and Vala seems to be permanently attached to his hip (save for the episodes from which he's been absent).

grasshopper64
February 20th, 2007, 04:25 AM
Wow - I thought it was just me. The whole Jack/Sam thing always made me think "wow, Carter's got some serious Daddy issues here." Not to mention the squick of such a competant professional woman having a crush on her boss. Because honestly, that's all it ever seemed like to me. A crush on Carter's side, and some middle-aged fantasies on Jack's side. I never got any sense of deep undying passion, even if the whole scenario hadn't been terribly inappropriate.

I guess my fear, if I haven't said it before, is that making any particular ship canon for Atlantis will weaken the show. TPTB haven't been good at selling romance in SG1 -IMO it's weakened the team and the whole show whenever it was made the focus. I don't want to see Atlantis go down that same road, with Shep/Teyla or whatever pairing might become the focus. We've barely gotten to know Teyla, but she doesn't deserve what Sam went through. She's a strong woman, a warrior, a leader. She is owed some character development, but putting her in a relationship with someone is not the way to do that.



One of my problems with S/J ship is that it all felt so forced, right from Divide and Conquer through to S7 & 8, when it all felt one way, Sam having a crush on her CO and being made to look stupid.

As for Atlantis, I really hope they don't have any shipping in S4. I don't think they'll ship Mckay/Carter,
spoilers for Sunday

they seem to be going with McKay/Katie Brown if anything,

however I hope they don't pair them off constantly, at the expense of other characters, like they have with Daniel/Vala in the first half of S10.

I also hope they stay away from Shep/Teyla. Teyla has been underdeveloped and deserves to be more than Shep's girlfriend.

Cory Holmes
February 20th, 2007, 06:26 AM
Ok, that's not helping the laughing. :D Although I do feel your pain, even while I laugh at it <grin>.

*muttermutter*Shaddup*muttermutter*

Killdeer
February 20th, 2007, 05:39 PM
*muttermutter*Shaddup*muttermutter*

<grin> Sorry.

Actually, not laughing much right now-the news today has rather dampened my spirits. :( But I know this is not the thread to discuss that.

But if we hear now that Shep/Teyla will be canon, that will complete my depression. Wow. I have no life, if a TV show could depress me like this.

BTW, if anyone's wondering if I have a particular grudge against Shep/Teyla for some reason, no, I'm pretty much antiship in general. It's just that one seems the most likely at the moment, so I use it instead of listing out all the possibilities.

Cory Holmes
February 22nd, 2007, 07:43 AM
<grin> Sorry.

Actually, not laughing much right now-the news today has rather dampened my spirits.

What news?

maxbo
February 22nd, 2007, 10:09 AM
<grin> Sorry.

Actually, not laughing much right now-the news today has rather dampened my spirits. :( But I know this is not the thread to discuss that.

But if we hear now that Shep/Teyla will be canon, that will complete my depression. Wow. I have no life, if a TV show could depress me like this.

BTW, if anyone's wondering if I have a particular grudge against Shep/Teyla for some reason, no, I'm pretty much antiship in general. It's just that one seems the most likely at the moment, so I use it instead of listing out all the possibilities.

Oh dear, what did you hear that makes you think that Shep/Teyla may become canon?

I just finished watching Season 4 of SG-1 and can't believe that the Sam/Jack shippiness became even more overt in later seasons. Reading the Season 4 episode guides was even more depressing because the writers said that viewers complained that the team dynamics had been damaged because of the Sam/Jack ship. I don't want to see this sad trend repeated on SGA.

I love Teyla and keep hoping that TPTB will actually keep her in mind when they develop episodes instead of adding her as an afterthought. Sadly, I believe that if she becomes Shep's girlfriend, that she'll become even more of an afterthought. :(

If they go this route, I hope they keep it understated, very, very understated -- so understated that if you weren't looking for it, you wouldn't see it. I hope they learned their lesson with the Sam/Jack ship because it appears that no one is really happy with how that turned out.

Killdeer
February 22nd, 2007, 07:27 PM
:o
What news?

Nothing really new, I suppose. I was referring to the two news articles that came out confirming that AT would be a main cast member, and not recurring as some had previously assumed. I was discussing it last night over on the "Can Carter replace Weir?" thread. It's true that it's not proof that Carter will be taking command, but it makes it seem more likely. Which is why I was depressed. I had still been holding out hope of a minor recurring type role. Just my feelings on it - no slap meant at any Carter fans here.



Oh dear, what did you hear that makes you think that Shep/Teyla may become canon?

Actually, no one official has said anything to promote any ship that I know of. I guess I was more referring to the tendancy of TPTB to want to ship someone, preferably their leading man. Since it looks as though Weir may be out of the picture, Teyla would be the next choice. And there was a few hints in Season 3 that Teyla is interested in someone. It may not be anyone we know though. I'm willing to admit I'm being paranoid. I hope I'm being paranoid. My optimism has been a little damaged the last few days. Who knows how it will really turn out? I see the so-called "Sheyla" as the most likely option if TPTB want to ship someone, but that's just my perspective. Doesn't mean it will happen! I'm really sorry. Didn't mean to distress you! :o



I just finished watching Season 4 of SG-1 and can't believe that the Sam/Jack shippiness became even more overt in later seasons. Reading the Season 4 episode guides was even more depressing because the writers said that viewers complained that the team dynamics had been damaged because of the Sam/Jack ship. I don't want to see this sad trend repeated on SGA.

It's been awhile since I watched those seasons (need to drag out those DVD sets again I guess), but I don't remember the Sam/Jack shippiness that much in Seasons 5 & 6. Keep in mind I haven't watched those seasons for a while. It was Seasons 7 & 8 that it got bad in my mind. And the worst, IMO, was Threads and Moebius, at the end of Season 8.

I too thought the team dynamics were damaged. I'm not sure it was all because of the ship, though that was probably a big part. But it also seemed that TPTB wanted to introduce some conflict, some tension, between Jack and Daniel, which would have been fine if there were reasons given for it, but it seemed that it just came out of the blue. But yeah, for whatever reason, the team dynamic started breaking down around season four. Not that there weren't some great episodes after that. They just didn't have the same family vibe as they did in earlier seasons. And again, please keep in mind that this is all just my opinion. Some people will tell you that SG1 has always had more of a family feel than Atlantis. That's cool - I just have a different perspective. We're all friends here right? Well, sort of friends? :o


I love Teyla and keep hoping that TPTB will actually keep her in mind when they develop episodes instead of adding her as an afterthought. Sadly, I believe that if she becomes Shep's girlfriend, that she'll become even more of an afterthought. :(

I completely agree - Teyla deserves much better. IMO, making her Shep's girlfriend would only weaken a character that, while underdeveloped, has until now been portrayed as a very strong woman.


If they go this route, I hope they keep it understated, very, very understated -- so understated that if you weren't looking for it, you wouldn't see it. I hope they learned their lesson with the Sam/Jack ship because it appears that no one is really happy with how that turned out.

I'm not optimistic about TPTB learning their lesson. I'm pretty sure they're fine with what they did, if someone were to ask. On the other hand, I read someone somewhere saying they'd read Joe Flanigan doesn't want ship on the show - I don't know if that meant his character in particular, or just ship in general. Also, have also heard that Momoa and Luttrell aren't excited about the chance of ship between their characters. These are all third-hand references, so take them with a grain of salt. But hey, maybe there is some hope for us anti-shippers out here! Few though we may seem to be at times. :D

Again, I apologize for any misunderstandings I may have created with my earlier post. <smiling weakly> I'll try to be more careful in the future. :o Bye for now!

scifi_lemon
February 22nd, 2007, 08:53 PM
It's true that it's not proof that Carter will be taking command, but it makes it seem more likely. Which is why I was depressed. I had still been holding out hope of a minor recurring type role.

I thought that I heard somewhere that Weir's not totally being taken out of the picture, but she's just going to be reduced to reaccuring (spelled that wrong lol) role. It makes sense IMO. Like with Submerged, I didn't understand why Weir would be going underwater with the team. If she's reaccuring she can still be in charge but doesn't have to be in *every* episode. It'll free the writers a little bit and allow them to focus on our team a little more. That's just my two cents, anyway. ;)

Cory Holmes
February 23rd, 2007, 04:50 AM
Who knows how it will really turn out? I see the so-called "Sheyla" as the most likely option if TPTB want to ship someone, but that's just my perspective. Doesn't mean it will happen!
They've been angling in that direction since S1, even going so far as to pre-promote that pairing before the show started. Then the writers forgot that and had him and Weir making those nausiatingly long and lingering looks at each other while the patheticly sappy music plays... sorry, got off on a tangent there.



I'm really sorry. Didn't mean to distress you! :o
Ah. You may then resume your regularly scheduled mocking.


And the worst, IMO, was Threads and Moebius, at the end of Season 8.
And that's exactly why I don't own S8 on DVD. Those three episodes are pretty amazing on their own, but the shipping just kills them for me. I sit down to watch and enjoy them and only get to the first part of watching before I give up in disgust.


We're all friends here right? Well, sort of friends? :o
Friends that mercilessly mock other people's pain *pointed look*, but still friends. :p

Cory Holmes
February 23rd, 2007, 04:52 AM
Like with Submerged, I didn't understand why Weir would be going underwater with the team.

They had that problem with Hammond in SG-1. In order to get him some decent screentime they had to come up with absurdly silly contrivences, or some really great story ideas (such as the introduction of the NID and his grandchildren). While I agree that Weir has pretty much been recurring from the get-go, I can't help but feel a little stab of sympathy for the actress.

maxbo
February 23rd, 2007, 07:13 AM
:o

Actually, no one official has said anything to promote any ship that I know of. I guess I was more referring to the tendancy of TPTB to want to ship someone, preferably their leading man. Since it looks as though Weir may be out of the picture, Teyla would be the next choice. And there was a few hints in Season 3 that Teyla is interested in someone. It may not be anyone we know though. I'm willing to admit I'm being paranoid. I hope I'm being paranoid. My optimism has been a little damaged the last few days. Who knows how it will really turn out? I see the so-called "Sheyla" as the most likely option if TPTB want to ship someone, but that's just my perspective. Doesn't mean it will happen! I'm really sorry. Didn't mean to distress you! :o


Whew!

Killdeer, thanks for clearing that up. In TPTB's efforts to "shake things up" I don't know where I'll be blindsided from next. Too... many... changes. *sigh*



It's been awhile since I watched those seasons (need to drag out those DVD sets again I guess), but I don't remember the Sam/Jack shippiness that much in Seasons 5 & 6. Keep in mind I haven't watched those seasons for a while. It was Seasons 7 & 8 that it got bad in my mind. And the worst, IMO, was Threads and Moebius, at the end of Season 8.

As for SG-1, I wasn't a regular viewer until after I discovered SGA and I thought the canon S/J shippiness didn't start until Seasons 6 or 7, so I thought Seasons 1 - 5 would be ship free. Sure, I had heard that some believed that the shippiness started much earlier, however, when I saw some of the episodes they referenced like Season 1's Broca Divide, Solitudes, and There But for the Grace of God, I didn't agree. So, I just put it down as a matter of perception and after not seeing any S/J ship in Seasons 2 and 3, I felt it was safe to continue.

Despite the blatant ship in Divide and Conquer, I enjoyed Season 4, in fact, if TPTB had stopped the S/J ship there it would have been better for all concerned, IMO. The shippers could have used D&C to fuel their imaginations and non/anti-shippers could have continued to enjoy the show without wondering whether the team was suffering for ship.

Instead, it looks like TPTB backburnered S/J ship to the point that non-shippers thought it wouldn't be an issue and then WHAM! a couple of seasons later it returned full force in Season 7's Grace. I can only imagine what type of reaction that generated during first airing. Talk about being blindsided!


I completely agree - Teyla deserves much better. IMO, making her Shep's girlfriend would only weaken a character that, while underdeveloped, has until now been portrayed as a very strong woman.

Yes, Teyla does deserve better. And, after hearing about how a well established character like Sam had been damaged by ship, I'm even more concerned about Teyla who the writers often seem to forget is a main character.


I'm not optimistic about TPTB learning their lesson. I'm pretty sure they're fine with what they did, if someone were to ask. On the other hand, I read someone somewhere saying they'd read Joe Flanigan doesn't want ship on the show - I don't know if that meant his character in particular, or just ship in general. Also, have also heard that Momoa and Luttrell aren't excited about the chance of ship between their characters. These are all third-hand references, so take them with a grain of salt. But hey, maybe there is some hope for us anti-shippers out here! Few though we may seem to be at times. :D

Based on Rachel Luttrell's last few interviews, she's not too keen on main cast ship either. However, she does seem open to Teyla being shipped with a guest. I think each actor realizes that shipping the main cast is a recipe for disaster and that the actor who's considered the supporting actor is the one who will suffer the most.

And, I think our (anti-shipper) numbers are greater than you think. We just don't get riled until ship becomes blatant/canon, then the claws come out, or, eh... the whining begins.

Killdeer
February 27th, 2007, 07:52 PM
They've been angling in that direction since S1, even going so far as to pre-promote that pairing before the show started.

Wow. Didn't know that about the pre-promotion. That's...disturbing. :(



Ah. You may then resume your regularly scheduled mocking.

Thanks! Will do my best! :D


And that's exactly why I don't own S8 on DVD. Those three episodes are pretty amazing on their own, but the shipping just kills them for me. I sit down to watch and enjoy them and only get to the first part of watching before I give up in disgust.

Well, at the time, buying the DVD sets was the only way I had to watch the show. If I'd watched when aired, I might not have rushed out and bought the set quite so fast. I haven't rewatched it though, in fact I don't think I've rewatched any season since Season 5. Hmm. I suppose I should do that. I was looking through the disks for my Season 6 set a few days ago and realized I don't remember most of those episodes. <wince>


Friends that mercilessly mock other people's pain *pointed look*, but still friends. :p

<Grin> Well, thanks for the friends part anyway. :D


Whew!

Killdeer, thanks for clearing that up. In TPTB's efforts to "shake things up" I don't know where I'll be blindsided from next. Too... many... changes. *sigh*

So true about the changes. <sighs with you> Again, sorry for scaring you. Should have made it more clear.


Despite the blatant ship in Divide and Conquer, I enjoyed Season 4, in fact, if TPTB had stopped the S/J ship there it would have been better for all concerned, IMO. The shippers could have used D&C to fuel their imaginations and non/anti-shippers could have continued to enjoy the show without wondering whether the team was suffering for ship.

Instead, it looks like TPTB backburnered S/J ship to the point that non-shippers thought it wouldn't be an issue and then WHAM! a couple of seasons later it returned full force in Season 7's Grace. I can only imagine what type of reaction that generated during first airing. Talk about being blindsided!

Yeah, I for one wasn't pleased. I was so hoping they'd leave it where they'd left it. I could live with it that way. But seasons 7 & 8...not only were they painful ship-wise, they pretty much ruined Sam for me as a character. Largely (though not entirely) because of the ship, with Jack and with Pete.



Based on Rachel Luttrell's last few interviews, she's not too keen on main cast ship either. However, she does seem open to Teyla being shipped with a guest. I think each actor realizes that shipping the main cast is a recipe for disaster and that the actor who's considered the supporting actor is the one who will suffer the most.

I'm not so opposed to ship with a non-main character, as long it's not made the focus, like Sam/Pete was. A background (very very very background) romance wouldn't bother me I don't think. It's ship between main characters that tends to veer into melodrama. :(


And, I think our (anti-shipper) numbers are greater than you think. We just don't get riled until ship becomes blatant/canon, then the claws come out, or, eh... the whining begins.

That's good to hear. I feel very very alone on this board sometimes as regarding ship. :) Probably this thread will become more active when Season 4 starts up, or the back half of Season 3 airs in the US. But here's hoping we don't have a reason to complain. :D

JessM
February 28th, 2007, 03:58 AM
:o

Nothing really new, I suppose. I was referring to the two news articles that came out confirming that AT would be a main cast member, and not recurring as some had previously assumed. I was discussing it last night over on the "Can Carter replace Weir?" thread. It's true that it's not proof that Carter will be taking command, but it makes it seem more likely. Which is why I was depressed. I had still been holding out hope of a minor recurring type role. Just my feelings on it - no slap meant at any Carter fans here.

None taken, and actually I agree with you. If it's true that she'll be a main cast member, this makes me wonder about any future SG-1 movies (beyond the two that they're already planning). If Sam is more or less a permanent fixture in Atlantis, will she still be able to be in the movies? I mean, would S4 of SGA and the SG-1 movies take place in different universes, or will her appearances on SGA be set up so that she won't be there permanently and will be shuttling back and forth between Earth and the Pegasus galaxy? I guess I don't really see how she can do both (sorry btw if this is a bit OT :o).

As much as I am a Sam fan, I don't think I want to see her as a main character on SGA. I'd rather it be a recurring role. And I really don't want to see any Sam/McKay ship either. To me it'd be like Daniel/Vala (aka Vaniel). Vaniel started off with Vala getting under Daniel's skin, just as Rodney has always been getting under Sam's skin. Now we don't see that very much as far as Vaniel is concerned - they're closer and get along a lot better, spend most of each episode together etc. I hope we don't get to see this with Sam and McKay, with that dynamic/pairing/whatever you want to call it being the main focus of the show.


It's been awhile since I watched those seasons (need to drag out those DVD sets again I guess), but I don't remember the Sam/Jack shippiness that much in Seasons 5 & 6. Keep in mind I haven't watched those seasons for a while. It was Seasons 7 & 8 that it got bad in my mind. And the worst, IMO, was Threads and Moebius, at the end of Season 8.

I don't remember it very much either. The only thing that came close to it was Sam crying over Jack being gone in Paradise Lost (she cried to Teal'c that it was bad enough Daniel was gone, but Jack was gone now too). I personally didn't see that as shippy - I know others did and good on them, but not me personally. I saw it as worry and concern over a good friend, but that's just me.


I too thought the team dynamics were damaged. I'm not sure it was all because of the ship, though that was probably a big part. But it also seemed that TPTB wanted to introduce some conflict, some tension, between Jack and Daniel, which would have been fine if there were reasons given for it, but it seemed that it just came out of the blue. But yeah, for whatever reason, the team dynamic started breaking down around season four. Not that there weren't some great episodes after that. They just didn't have the same family vibe as they did in earlier seasons. And again, please keep in mind that this is all just my opinion. Some people will tell you that SG1 has always had more of a family feel than Atlantis. That's cool - I just have a different perspective. We're all friends here right? Well, sort of friends? :o

Exactly! *group hug* :D I see what you're saying, and I agree. I think they've just about put a nail in the team dynamic coffin the past two seasons (S9 they drove it in a little deeper and this season it's been driven all the way through). S9, even though Mitchell talked so much about getting the band back together, they still felt pretty fragmented. I didn't get much of a family vibe there, and forget about this season. Everyone's always being paired off and the team is hardly ever close, with maybe 1 or 2 exceptions here and there. Plus they're milking the Vaniel thing for all it's worth, so it seems as if they're a separate entity away from the rest of the team most of the time.

discodiva
February 28th, 2007, 09:07 AM
Can't believe that my last possible TV viewing of a re-run (thanks to Virgin Media and Sky battling it out) will be Grace.....*shudders*....:S

Thank god I've got the DVD's....;)



Deeds xx

Frostfox
February 28th, 2007, 09:28 AM
Can't believe that my last possible TV viewing of a re-run (thanks to Virgin Media and Sky battling it out) will be Grace.....*shudders*....:S

Thank god I've got the DVD's....;)



Deeds xx

Yuck, you poor thing you.
I felt Grace was rather a weak episode, which was a shame, I usualy like Sam episodes. AT acted her socks off, as usual, I just wished she'd had a stronger vehicle than this.
And I'd hoped her fantasizing about snogging the boss would be the end of that sorry afair when she realised how wrong it was, but, no, they managed to mangle her character further in that season.
Ew, snogging the boss, even if he looked like RDA... ew, where did I leave the brain bleach?

FF :nox:

JessM
February 28th, 2007, 02:05 PM
Can't believe that my last possible TV viewing of a re-run (thanks to Virgin Media and Sky battling it out) will be Grace.....*shudders*....:S

Thank god I've got the DVD's....;)



Deeds xx

(((hugs))) to you, Deeds... I hope things get sorted out okay so you avoid this terrible fate. ;)

I have to say thank God for the DVDs myself... *sighs wistfully upon remembrance of the good old days*

Cory Holmes
February 28th, 2007, 03:17 PM
Wow. Didn't know that about the pre-promotion. That's...disturbing. :(
The exact wording was the Sheppard and Telya would have a "special connection" when they were initially describing the characters. I was more dissapointed that the writers couldn't come up with anything more original than a simple re-hash of the plot device used in Stargate the movie.



Thanks! Will do my best! :D

<Grin> Well, thanks for the friends part anyway. :D

Oooh, dems is fightin' werds.:cool:



I'm not so opposed to ship with a non-main character, as long it's not made the focus, like Sam/Pete was. A background (very very very background) romance wouldn't bother me I don't think. It's ship between main characters that tends to veer into melodrama. :(

The best example of this is the mini-Beckett/Cadman ship. A few quotes here and some stage props there was all it took to convince us that it was on-going. Anything more than that takes up precious screentime.

Madeleine
March 2nd, 2007, 09:55 AM
Hahaha, here's a pro-ship post for you all:
spoilers for Family Ties
Cam/AnonymousPersonHeWasWithInFamilyTies - YAY!

Ideal ship. He's having fun, bless 'im, and he's being a normal red blooded male. And he didn't expose us to any of those moments that ought to remain private, or expect us viewers to care about the details of who, why or how. It took a second of screentime, no more.

There. I've got it out of my system. :D

Frostfox
March 2nd, 2007, 10:11 AM
Hahaha, here's a pro-ship post for you all:
spoilers for Family Ties
Cam/AnonymousPersonHeWasWithInFamilyTies - YAY!

Ideal ship. He's having fun, bless 'im, and he's being a normal red blooded male. And he didn't expose us to any of those moments that ought to remain private, or expect us viewers to care about the details of who, why or how. It took a second of screentime, no more.

There. I've got it out of my system. :D

In an ideal world, all the ship on the show be handled in that manner.

FF :nox:

petemoretti
March 2nd, 2007, 10:17 AM
In an ideal world, all the ship on the show be handled in that manner.

FF :nox:

So I take you would have loved if they retired Jack at the end of S9 and have S/J married? (with no or very little RDA's appearances on the show as it has happenned)

Madeleine
March 2nd, 2007, 10:21 AM
So I take you would have loved if they retired Jack at the end of S9 and have S/J married? (with no or very little RDA's appearances on the show as it has happenned)


:confused: why do you say that? :confused:

petemoretti
March 2nd, 2007, 10:29 AM
:confused: why do you say that? :confused:

It was a joke. FF's inferred that he wants (or he wouldn't have a problem with )the ship off-screen so no Jack in S9-S10 + a mention by one character that they're married with nothing shown on-screen should make him happy.
(Just yanking her chain 'cause I know she's really a J/D slasher) :D

Madeleine
March 2nd, 2007, 10:37 AM
Okay, I get that you were joking, but it's not the same. Main Character / Anonymous Unseen Person has no effect on the rest of the show. Main Character / Other Main Character is a big deal and affects the whole of the rest of the show. Even if it doesn't get canonised until after Other Main Character has left, it still colours both Main Character, and all of MC's and OMC's prior interaction.

Frostfox
March 2nd, 2007, 10:37 AM
So I take you would have loved if they retired Jack at the end of S9 and have S/J married? (with no or very little RDA's appearances on the show as it has happenned)

Not really, as I don't think they have any romantic chemistry and it would be way, way too damaging to Sam's career; while we know they haven't got a relationship and that Sam didn't sleep her way to her promotions, it would be seen that way by others. Being a woman in her position is a very difficult juggling act between professional and personal, there are way too many in the armed forces which still hold outdated and misogenic ideas about women in front line units and their effect on the rest of their team.

But if they absolutely had to resurrect a dead plot line and bring back the relationship into the show, then, yes, a single line of dialog saying that they were now married would be what I would want.

I was reading the Visual Guide to SG1 that one of my friends kindly bought me for xmas. It's a nice book. There are two pages for each of the 'big four' original SG1 and each page has boxes with different aspects of their life, or memorable incidents highlighted, for example, Daniel and ascension and Daniel and Shar'e. Jack and Thor and Jack and his family. Only Sam had a box entitled 'Relationships'. The three men on the team have had as many relationships as her, possibly more but was there a box called relationships for any of them? No. There was specific mention of spouses and the like but no listings of the various women they have been shown with. Why are Sam's relationships noteworthy when theirs aren't? Why should they be considered differently to her, what makes people still define a woman by who she is going out with in a way they wouldn't even consider with a man?Why are some couples still formally addessed as 'Mr and Mrs John Smith'?

FF :nox:

grasshopper64
March 2nd, 2007, 10:45 AM
Hahaha, here's a pro-ship post for you all:
spoilers for Family Ties
Cam/AnonymousPersonHeWasWithInFamilyTies - YAY!

Ideal ship. He's having fun, bless 'im, and he's being a normal red blooded male. And he didn't expose us to any of those moments that ought to remain private, or expect us viewers to care about the details of who, why or how. It took a second of screentime, no more.

There. I've got it out of my system. :D


It's a good point, Madeleine. Whereas I don't want to see shipping happen on screen between anyone, if characters are to be going on dates or in relationships, that should be kept to a minimum and not the focus of the show, I'm thinking like with Sam/Pete, and I didn't have a problem with Sam having a boyfriend, it was the way Pete was portrayed, they could have just had references to her dating someone and not the fiasco it became.

And I'd mention if characters are to be on dates or whatever, it should be not be with those on the same team or who they have or have had a close working relationship with, that applies especially Daniel/Vala or Sam/Jack, because it's unprofessional and detracts from the Team;)

In family ties

The reference to Cam going on a date could mean anything and be with anyone, wether you want to think it was with Amy Vandenberg or
A N Other.

Frostfox
March 2nd, 2007, 10:49 AM
It was a joke. FF's inferred that he wants (or he wouldn't have a problem with )the ship off-screen so no Jack in S9-S10 + a mention by one character that they're married with nothing shown on-screen should make him happy.
(Just yanking his chain 'cause I know he's really a J/D slasher) :D

Laughs.
Well, 'he' is a 'she' and my slashing isn't the reason why I don't like ship on the show.

Slash fans have never needed canonical support, we can slash characters from two different shows or from a show and a book. Slash is a complicated passion, partly to do with sexual proclivities and fantasies but often more to do with breaking social stereotypes of male/male (or female/female) interaction and with subverting the TV genre. There is less slash for Queer as Folk as for Stargate; where is the challenge in slashing two characters who are already queer? It is much more of a challenge, much more satisfying to take hetrosexual characters into more interesting and iconoclastic territory.

FF :nox:

Madeleine
March 2nd, 2007, 10:51 AM
Yup. I prefer the notion of AV over that of ANO, but either way it's unintrusive and unobtrusive :)

Killdeer
March 6th, 2007, 03:56 PM
Hello, everyone. Just checking in for my weekly post. Have to keep my membership in good standing you know. :D

Actually I'm in a pretty good mood this evening! I picked up both the Atlantis Season 2 set and the new Stargate magazine, which is Atlantis focused this time. So...I'm happy.


As much as I am a Sam fan, I don't think I want to see her as a main character on SGA. I'd rather it be a recurring role.

Well, I'm not sure either of us are going to get what we want <grin>. But I'm coming around. I've had my tantrums and I'm getting used to the idea. I love Atlantis too much to let this one thing spoil it for me, although I may still have a fit or two once we see how it plays out. :o I'm hoping not though.

I'm starting not to think that Sam will be shipped with anyone. Apparently JoeM has stated that he is supportive of the Sam/Jack ship, and would like it to be resolved. How they're going to do that with her on Atlantis I have no clue. But that's what the man said, so....I'm guessing they probably won't put her with anyone else. He also seems to be promoting Rodney/Katie, unless that's a red herring for the fans. I am still worried about the Sam/Rodney interaction - Rodney's maturity level drops drastically in Carter's presence, but I'm not really worried about serious ship between the two. Oh, and thanks for the hug! :)


The exact wording was the Sheppard and Telya would have a "special connection" when they were initially describing the characters. I was more dissapointed that the writers couldn't come up with anything more original than a simple re-hash of the plot device used in Stargate the movie.

You're talking about the necklace? Hmm, I guess it was, wasn't it? I hadn't really thought about that. It's been awhile since I saw the movie though.



Oooh, dems is fightin' werds.:cool:

Fight? Me? <looks around innocently> You must have me confused with someone else. :D


The best example of this is the mini-Beckett/Cadman ship. A few quotes here and some stage props there was all it took to convince us that it was on-going. Anything more than that takes up precious screentime.

I completely agree. That's part of the reason I'm not really against the Rodney/Katie ship right now, because it's been so very background. I might change my mind, depending on where it goes in Season 4, but at this point, it's not in my face enough to bother me (like Sam/Pete was :mad:) Grasshopper64, I completely agree about that one being a fiasco.

BTW, whatever happened to Cadman anyway? I liked her attitude! :D

Killdeer
March 6th, 2007, 04:00 PM
Yup. I prefer the notion of AV over that of ANO, but either way it's unintrusive and unobtrusive :)

I guess I don't know those abbreviations...just curious...:confused:

Jace021903
March 6th, 2007, 05:56 PM
snippage for space






Only Sam had a box entitled 'Relationships'. The three men on the team have had as many relationships as her, possibly more but was there a box called relationships for any of them? No. There was specific mention of spouses and the like but no listings of the various women they have been shown with. Why are Sam's relationships noteworthy when theirs aren't? Why should they be considered differently to her, what makes people still define a woman by who she is going out with in a way they wouldn't even consider with a man?Why are some couples still formally addessed as 'Mr and Mrs John Smith'?

FF :nox:


Good point.


I remember the very instant when I went from not-really-caring-one-way-or the-other to anti-ship. It was the TV Guide article when SG-1 was on the cover the first time--the one with Jack and Daniel. It was a season 7 preview and mentioned storylines for all the characters--except Sam.

Sam got this: (paraphrasing)

Major Carter will get closer to her boss this season (nudge, nudge, wink, wink.)

Grrr.

Madeleine
March 6th, 2007, 07:49 PM
I guess I don't know those abbreviations...just curious...:confused:

Sorry, was replying to the post before, but somone else replied just before whic makes my post into a non-sequiteur :o

Amy Vandenberg
A N Other.

grasshopper64
March 7th, 2007, 03:33 AM
Well, I'm not sure either of us are going to get what we want <grin>. But I'm coming around. I've had my tantrums and I'm getting used to the idea. I love Atlantis too much to let this one thing spoil it for me, although I may still have a fit or two once we see how it plays out. :o I'm hoping not though.

I'm starting not to think that Sam will be shipped with anyone. Apparently JoeM has stated that he is supportive of the Sam/Jack ship, and would like it to be resolved. How they're going to do that with her on Atlantis I have no clue. But that's what the man said, so....I'm guessing they probably won't put her with anyone else. He also seems to be promoting Rodney/Katie, unless that's a red herring for the fans. I am still worried about the Sam/Rodney interaction - Rodney's maturity level drops drastically in Carter's presence, but I'm not really worried about serious ship between the two. Oh, and thanks for the hug! :)

I completely agree. That's part of the reason I'm not really against the Rodney/Katie ship right now, because it's been so very background. I might change my mind, depending on where it goes in Season 4, but at this point, it's not in my face enough to bother me (like Sam/Pete was :mad:) Grasshopper64, I completely agree about that one being a fiasco.

BTW, whatever happened to Cadman anyway? I liked her attitude! :D


I'm not in favour of Sam being fulltime on Atlantis, because I think the two shows should be kept separate. I do like Sam, but she's had 10 years plus 2 SG1 movies, time to move on JMO. I'm also not happy with Weir being made recurring and the lost of Carson but that's for another Thread....

As for what JM said, well I think he likes to stir things up and I take what he says with a big pinch of salt IMO. Thankfully the decision isn't down to him (at least not him alone). You might be right about them not shipping Sam on SGA, I just don't want to see scenes where she turns down a guy and that is supposed to imply she is with Jack/waiting for Jack, kind of like the "not exactly" line in S9. Now I'm really hoping Jack doesn't appear in Atlantis in S4, S/J ship was bad enough on SG1, don't drag it over to SGA........
I think perhaps I need to go find that anti S/J ship thread.

I am pretty sure they won't ship Sam/Rodney, but like you said, I don't want them to go OTT on the interaction. If Sam has to be there at least have her interacting with everyone, not just Rodney.

JessM
March 7th, 2007, 08:39 AM
Hello, everyone. Just checking in for my weekly post. Have to keep my membership in good standing you know. :D

Actually I'm in a pretty good mood this evening! I picked up both the Atlantis Season 2 set and the new Stargate magazine, which is Atlantis focused this time. So...I'm happy.

Hey Killdeer. Missed ya here :)

Glad to hear it! I still need to get SGA S2... hopefully will be able to do that tomorrow. Think I'll pick up the new Stargate mag while I'm at it (glad to hear it's SGA focused too).


Well, I'm not sure either of us are going to get what we want <grin>. But I'm coming around. I've had my tantrums and I'm getting used to the idea. I love Atlantis too much to let this one thing spoil it for me, although I may still have a fit or two once we see how it plays out. :o I'm hoping not though.

Yeah I'm starting to doubt it too, though I'm going to wait and see how it plays out.. hopefully there won't be much to worry about.


I'm starting not to think that Sam will be shipped with anyone. Apparently JoeM has stated that he is supportive of the Sam/Jack ship, and would like it to be resolved. How they're going to do that with her on Atlantis I have no clue. But that's what the man said, so....I'm guessing they probably won't put her with anyone else. He also seems to be promoting Rodney/Katie, unless that's a red herring for the fans. I am still worried about the Sam/Rodney interaction - Rodney's maturity level drops drastically in Carter's presence, but I'm not really worried about serious ship between the two. Oh, and thanks for the hug! :)

I saw JoeM's comment about that. Guess I'm not surprised, though maybe he is just stirring the pot like Grasshopper said. I really hope they won't go overboard with the Sam/Rodney interaction myself. It almost reminds me a bit of Daniel/Vala (which bothers me a lot more admittedly). I'm not too worried about it myself though. You're welcome for the hug!

I'm still worried about the Daniel/Vala stuff we're apparently going to see in Unending. The biggest thing that bothers me about that ship is that it seems that Daniel has to show emotion, care and concern only for her, or mostly for her. We hardly see him showing it for Teal'c (if you exclude Talion, but even that wasn't much) or for Sam. He interacts with them like they're mere business colleagues and not friends, while he has all these "tender" moments with Vala. :mckay: I know a lot of things have focused on her this season but I wish there was more of a balance.

Cory Holmes
March 7th, 2007, 12:14 PM
You're talking about the necklace? Hmm, I guess it was, wasn't it? I hadn't really thought about that. It's been awhile since I saw the movie though.
Actually, I was referring to the whole, "Native woman brings alien man to cave with ingravings that explain the whole story" plot device.



Fight? Me? <looks around innocently> You must have me confused with someone else. :D
Oh, no. Not at all.



I completely agree. That's part of the reason I'm not really against the Rodney/Katie ship right now, because it's been so very background.
I'm against Rodney/Katie for a whole host of reasons, but I can't fault the backgroundness of it.



BTW, whatever happened to Cadman anyway? I liked her attitude! :D
Jaimie Ray Newman got a lead part on a TV pilot. Dunno if it's been picked up at all.

Killdeer
March 7th, 2007, 01:22 PM
Sorry, was replying to the post before, but somone else replied just before whic makes my post into a non-sequiteur :o

Amy Vandenberg
A N Other.

Oh. Duh. :o Sorry!


Actually, I was referring to the whole, "Native woman brings alien man to cave with ingravings that explain the whole story" plot device.

And again. <slap on forehead> I should have known that! :o :o

Killdeer
March 7th, 2007, 01:29 PM
You might be right about them not shipping Sam on SGA, I just don't want to see scenes where she turns down a guy and that is supposed to imply she is with Jack/waiting for Jack, kind of like the "not exactly" line in S9. Now I'm really hoping Jack doesn't appear in Atlantis in S4, S/J ship was bad enough on SG1, don't drag it over to SGA........
I think perhaps I need to go find that anti S/J ship thread.

I agree with everything you said in your post! :D But I have to say, this is pretty much exactly the way I see them handling it. I could be wrong though.

I'm not pro S/J (at all), but if I have to choose between Sam having a relationship with an Atlantis character or having a relationship with an off-screen Jack, I choose Jack. (Much as it chokes me to say it)
I'd prefer not to have to choose though.

Frostfox
March 7th, 2007, 01:58 PM
I'm still worried about the Daniel/Vala stuff we're apparently going to see in Unending. The biggest thing that bothers me about that ship is that it seems that Daniel has to show emotion, care and concern only for her, or mostly for her. We hardly see him showing it for Teal'c (if you exclude Talion, but even that wasn't much) or for Sam. He interacts with them like they're mere business colleagues and not friends, while he has all these "tender" moments with Vala. :mckay: I know a lot of things have focused on her this season but I wish there was more of a balance.

Which is the exact same mistake they made with Sam and Jack; to prove how magical and special (insert love hearts and unicorns and sighs here) their relationship was, the writers minimised their relationships with the rest of the team. They could only have eyes for each other, because it was so special it had to be the most important thing. They started to disassemble the team by too much emphasis on one aspect, on one pairing.
And they haven't learned the lesson that sorry mess led to, they are repeating it again with Daniel and Vala.

FF :nox:

Killdeer
March 7th, 2007, 02:39 PM
Hey Killdeer. Missed ya here :)

Thanks! :D


I'm still worried about the Daniel/Vala stuff we're apparently going to see in Unending. The biggest thing that bothers me about that ship is that it seems that Daniel has to show emotion, care and concern only for her, or mostly for her. We hardly see him showing it for Teal'c (if you exclude Talion, but even that wasn't much) or for Sam. He interacts with them like they're mere business colleagues and not friends, while he has all these "tender" moments with Vala. :mckay: I know a lot of things have focused on her this season but I wish there was more of a balance.

I've not commented on Daniel/Vala before because I have really mixed feelings on it. But you're right. It is unbalanced. I don't know that there's been a lot of team interaction for, well, awhile. Several seasons, that I can remember. Mitchell tried, but it still doesn't have the close feeling of the early seasons, at least to me.

I think one of the biggest mistakes the writers made was in downplaying the Daniel/Sam friendship. And I'm not just saying this because I know you ship them. I don't see them as a couple, I always saw them more in a brother/sister relationship. But I always thought some of Sam's strongest scenes were with Daniel, working together. The one that I remember most is from Cold Lazarus in the first season, talking Teal'c into firing his staff weapon at the crystals. I don't know why the writers thought it was a good idea to downplay that rapport, but I've always thought it was a shame. Probably the same people who thought it was a good idea to downplay Jack and Daniel's friendship, or only give Teal'c scenes with Jack.... Oops. Sorry for the mini-rant. :o

JessM
March 7th, 2007, 05:26 PM
Which is the exact same mistake they made with Sam and Jack; to prove how magical and special (insert love hearts and unicorns and sighs here) their relationship was, the writers minimised their relationships with the rest of the team. They could only have eyes for each other, because it was so special it had to be the most important thing. They started to disassemble the team by too much emphasis on one aspect, on one pairing.
And they haven't learned the lesson that sorry mess led to, they are repeating it again with Daniel and Vala.

FF :nox:

That was one of my first thoughts, when the whole Daniel and Vala thing started up. Even with my own ship, I didn't really want to have it onscreen because I didn't trust the writers to pull it off and thought highlighting one couple all the time would ruin the team dynamic that I loved. Now I am seeing that with Daniel and Vala.

Some spoilers for Unending... Now it seems that they are going to do a Daniel/Vala thing in order to "satisfy that contingent." I was hoping the final episode would be a true team episode, a sort of tribute to the team, especially the original 3 members. With the possibility of D/V overshadowing that, I'm not too optimistic.

JessM
March 7th, 2007, 05:37 PM
Thanks! :D

No prob :cool:


I've not commented on Daniel/Vala before because I have really mixed feelings on it. But you're right. It is unbalanced. I don't know that there's been a lot of team interaction for, well, awhile. Several seasons, that I can remember. Mitchell tried, but it still doesn't have the close feeling of the early seasons, at least to me.

That is really my main beef with it, the lack of balance it seems to bring. I agree that there really hasn't been much team interaction for quite a while. Things seemed fragmented even in S9. In S8, even though Jack was mostly confined to the base while Daniel, Sam and Teal'c would go offworld, there was still a bit of that close feeling, even though it wasn't nearly as strong as it was in the earlier seasons.


I think one of the biggest mistakes the writers made was in downplaying the Daniel/Sam friendship. And I'm not just saying this because I know you ship them. I don't see them as a couple, I always saw them more in a brother/sister relationship. But I always thought some of Sam's strongest scenes were with Daniel, working together. The one that I remember most is from Cold Lazarus in the first season, talking Teal'c into firing his staff weapon at the crystals. I don't know why the writers thought it was a good idea to downplay that rapport, but I've always thought it was a shame. Probably the same people who thought it was a good idea to downplay Jack and Daniel's friendship, or only give Teal'c scenes with Jack.... Oops. Sorry for the mini-rant. :o

No problem! As I've said I don't really ship Daniel/Sam onscreen. I save it all for fanfiction and I'm more of a "friendshipper", in that theirs is probably my favorite friendship (very closely followed by the Jack/Daniel one). I agree - I do miss the scenes where they'd work together. I was just watching Cold Lazarus on my DVD's last night actually... always liked how they talked Teal'c into firing the staff weapon.

I think they started to downplay the rapport a bit in S8 but it wasn't very noticeable to me. I think it happened quite a bit in S9 due to Mitchell. Since he was new, they had to focus quite a bit on him and his interactions with the other team members - Mitchell and Sam, Mitchell and Daniel... there seemed to be more of a focus on him and the others became more secondary. I've seen more of a continuation of this in S10 because again of the focus on Mitchell and Vala as well. I guess the writers feel they have to highlight the Daniel/Vala stuff so much because he has this "history" with her, is responsible for her, etc. (yeah I'm playing devil's advocate here, lol) But I don't think it needs to be done in every episode. It also seems that the writers are either lazy or don't think that the Daniel/Sam interaction needs to be shown because it's not as "fun" as Daniel/Vala, or we know they're friends so we don't need to keep showing it. Still, I miss it.

Killdeer
March 11th, 2007, 07:19 AM
I'm against Rodney/Katie for a whole host of reasons, but I can't fault the backgroundness of it.

Well, this is the anti-ship thread. Feel free to elaborate. <grin> I promise not to mock too much! :D



Jaimie Ray Newman got a lead part on a TV pilot. Dunno if it's been picked up at all.

I just checked her imdb profile (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0628120/), and it said she'd been playing Mindy O'Dell on Veronica Mars. Ok. Now I really feel slow. :o :o Admittedly I'm behind on that show, but still... It explains why she wasn't around for Season 3 though!

Cory Holmes
March 14th, 2007, 04:30 AM
Well, this is the anti-ship thread. Feel free to elaborate. <grin> I promise not to mock too much! :D

Nuh-uh. I've learned my lesson when it comes to you :p

JessM
March 14th, 2007, 07:30 AM
Bringing this thread up because I am SO disgusted regarding Unending...

TPTB said it would be a team episode. HA!! Yeah, if "team episode" means just trapping the team together on a ship, but not having them all interact very much.

The D/V ship stuff made NO sense to me at all. He rebuffs her come on attempts at first, goes off on her saying he wouldn't have a relationship with her, she gets all boo-hoo-hoo-y and suddenly he kisses her and brings her to his bed!

And we keep getting these bed scenes over the course of 50 years!

Meanwhile, we have no Daniel/Teal'c interaction, one tiny scene of Daniel/Sam (which RCC probably just threw in there to appease the fans of that friendship), some nice Sam/Teal'c, Sam/Vala, I think a bit of Cam/Vala but not much else.

They do press the old reset button so as not to p!$$ off the anti-shippers, but Teal'c is the only one who remembers all that happened and in a comment he makes to Daniel and Vala at the end, it sounds as if he's giving them his blessing. *puke*

Hopefully I'm just being paranoid, but even at the end when they all go through the gate, they have Daniel and Vala going through after everyone else, just like they do in the opening credits, I guess to tell us once again that this ship is canon and meant to be. :mckay:

Anyway, sorry about the rant - I really had to vent over this and I felt it was the perfect place to do so. I'm just so disgusted that they had to end this show with ship, and a ship that is apparently going to be canon now. They could've gone out on a good note with nice team moments and friendship moments, especially between the original team members, but of course they couldn't do that.

I am so thankful we have the old season dvds.

Frostfox
March 14th, 2007, 10:13 AM
Bringing this thread up because I am SO disgusted regarding Unending...

TPTB said it would be a team episode. HA!! Yeah, if "team episode" means just trapping the team together on a ship, but not having them all interact very much.

The D/V ship stuff made NO sense to me at all. He rebuffs her come on attempts at first, goes off on her saying he wouldn't have a relationship with her, she gets all boo-hoo-hoo-y and suddenly he kisses her and brings her to his bed!

And we keep getting these bed scenes over the course of 50 years!

Meanwhile, we have no Daniel/Teal'c interaction, one tiny scene of Daniel/Sam (which RCC probably just threw in there to appease the fans of that friendship), some nice Sam/Teal'c, Sam/Vala, I think a bit of Cam/Vala but not much else.

They do press the old reset button so as not to p!$$ off the anti-shippers, but Teal'c is the only one who remembers all that happened and in a comment he makes to Daniel and Vala at the end, it sounds as if he's giving them his blessing. *puke*

Hopefully I'm just being paranoid, but even at the end when they all go through the gate, they have Daniel and Vala going through after everyone else, just like they do in the opening credits, I guess to tell us once again that this ship is canon and meant to be. :mckay:

Anyway, sorry about the rant - I really had to vent over this and I felt it was the perfect place to do so. I'm just so disgusted that they had to end this show with ship, and a ship that is apparently going to be canon now. They could've gone out on a good note with nice team moments and friendship moments, especially between the original team members, but of course they couldn't do that.

I am so thankful we have the old season dvds.

Spoilers for Unending.
I'd have been much happier without the Daniel/Vala stuff, but I was totally unsurprised, they had given us plenty of warning of how they were going to handle it. They just can't resist, can they?

As a Daniel/Jack slasher it won't affect me at all, I don't look to the show to validate my 'ship. It's nice when they give us something (I'm thinking of The Shroud and 'Sleepyhead' - insert THING here) but we read the subtext all the time and some hyperthetical relationship which now didn't happen isn't going to slow us down. Jack leaving didn't, judging by the fabulous fic still being produced.

But I understand your frustration and annoyance.

FF :nox:

grasshopper64
March 14th, 2007, 12:30 PM
Bringing this thread up because I am SO disgusted regarding Unending...

TPTB said it would be a team episode. HA!! Yeah, if "team episode" means just trapping the team together on a ship, but not having them all interact very much.

The D/V ship stuff made NO sense to me at all. He rebuffs her come on attempts at first, goes off on her saying he wouldn't have a relationship with her, she gets all boo-hoo-hoo-y and suddenly he kisses her and brings her to his bed!

And we keep getting these bed scenes over the course of 50 years!

Meanwhile, we have no Daniel/Teal'c interaction, one tiny scene of Daniel/Sam (which RCC probably just threw in there to appease the fans of that friendship), some nice Sam/Teal'c, Sam/Vala, I think a bit of Cam/Vala but not much else.

They do press the old reset button so as not to p!$$ off the anti-shippers, but Teal'c is the only one who remembers all that happened and in a comment he makes to Daniel and Vala at the end, it sounds as if he's giving them his blessing. *puke*

Hopefully I'm just being paranoid, but even at the end when they all go through the gate, they have Daniel and Vala going through after everyone else, just like they do in the opening credits, I guess to tell us once again that this ship is canon and meant to be. :mckay:

Anyway, sorry about the rant - I really had to vent over this and I felt it was the perfect place to do so. I'm just so disgusted that they had to end this show with ship, and a ship that is apparently going to be canon now. They could've gone out on a good note with nice team moments and friendship moments, especially between the original team members, but of course they couldn't do that.

I am so thankful we have the old season dvds.


Jess, completely agree with you, I know exactly how you feel

I won't repeat what I've said on the anti D/V thread, as I've been on a bit of a rant there myself:) (reminds self it is just a TV show)

Team? What Team? Oh I forgot - Vaniel plus Sam, Teal'c and Mitchell.
Yes TPTB have a lot to answer for, appealing to what I consider a narrow segment of the fan base and ignoring practically everyone else, in what is the final episode ever. Hey way to torture the audience:(

Yes ok I knew this was coming, but to actually see it happen, it was hard to watch. They should have left the shippy rubbish out of it and just concentrated on the team friendships like they used to in the early seasons but no, they had to do so, in the process annoying many old time fans and those of us who don't want to see any ship on Stargate.

Liv
March 15th, 2007, 11:38 AM
Oh, Unending. *sighs*

Dear episode,

You started off well enough, why couldn't you just have kept going in that lovely team direction, instead of veering of track into the shippy territory of Daniel/Vala Land?

I feel sad that SG-1 has ended, but sadder still that it had to end on such a - for me - disappointing note.

I was really looking forward to the promised team interaction in this episode. And I waited and I waited and I waited... and then whaddya know, episode over. Huh. Did I blink or something?

Daniel and Vala are great. But not as a couple. Just... no. And I think they did go overboard with pairing up the two - in the last two seasons. But it was ok, because it could be read as either ship or friendship and I always choose the latter.

This is just one more instance where having two characters get together will sadly destroy some of the enjoyment I have had with their interaction in previous episodes.

I guess I'm too much of a fan of the friendship aspect of the show to ever really feel happy with having them go with a canon ship within the team, reset button or no. I saw it and I'll remember it, even though the characters won't.

Killdeer
March 28th, 2007, 09:51 PM
I had to bump this thread up - it was second to the very last one! :D I'm starting to think people post more in ship specific threads, rather than this one. That's ok though. I stopped by the anti Jack/Sam thread tonight (morning). I think there's an anti Daniel/Vala thread, and I think I've also seen a anti Teyla/Ronan thread. Surprisingly, no anti Shep/Teyla thread or anti Shep/Weir thread. Maybe I'll have to start them. I'll wait until Season four airs though. Poor Teyla. She's really getting beat right now. She's the only character to have her own anti thread all to herself. I can think of a few characters I could start anti threads for, but I'd probably get killed! :D

EDIT: I take it back - the anti Teyla/Ronan thread seems to have mysteriously disappeared. Wonder what happened?


Nuh-uh. I've learned my lesson when it comes to you :p

Oh come on! It'd be so much fun :D! Seriously, I wasn't impressed with Rodney/Katie in Duet, and really never expected it to go anywhere after that. She made a little bit better impression on me in Sunday, but I'll wait to see what happens in Season 4 before deciding for sure. :) I'm not sure she's a strong enough character for Rodney, but....

JessM
March 29th, 2007, 05:39 AM
Yeppers, there is indeed an anti-Daniel/Vala thread (which I've spent a ton of time on lately... suppose you can guess why *snort*).

There are a few characters I could start anti threads for myself... although for some I'm not 100% anti-anti... more like anti-recent or so. (if that makes any sense, lol)

Frostfox
March 29th, 2007, 09:25 AM
I had to bump this thread up - it was second to the very last one! :D I'm starting to think people post more in ship specific threads, rather than this one. That's ok though. I stopped by the anti Jack/Sam thread tonight (morning). I think there's an anti Daniel/Vala thread, and I think I've also seen a anti Teyla/Ronan thread. Surprisingly, no anti Shep/Teyla thread or anti Shep/Weir thread. Maybe I'll have to start them. I'll wait until Season four airs though. Poor Teyla. She's really getting beat right now. She's the only character to have her own anti thread all to herself. I can think of a few characters I could start anti threads for, but I'd probably get killed! :D

I don't watch Atlantis so I would feel hypocritical commenting on the relationships in the show.
I did watch SG1 and while I wouldn't have wanted to see much on screen romance for any of the characters and certainly wouldn't have wanted any on screen relationship between any team members (what I like in fanfic is an entirely different matter), the S/J relationship is my hot button.
I do sometimes wonder if it would have been such an issue for me if it had been better written. I guess we will never know now.

FF :nox:

grasshopper64
March 29th, 2007, 10:51 AM
I had to bump this thread up - it was second to the very last one! :D I'm starting to think people post more in ship specific threads, rather than this one. That's ok though. I stopped by the anti Jack/Sam thread tonight (morning). I think there's an anti Daniel/Vala thread, and I think I've also seen a anti Teyla/Ronan thread. Surprisingly, no anti Shep/Teyla thread or anti Shep/Weir thread. Maybe I'll have to start them. I'll wait until Season four airs though. Poor Teyla. She's really getting beat right now. She's the only character to have her own anti thread all to herself. I can think of a few characters I could start anti threads for, but I'd probably get killed! :D

EDIT: I take it back - the anti Teyla/Ronan thread seems to have mysteriously disappeared. Wonder what happened?



Oh come on! It'd be so much fun :D! Seriously, I wasn't impressed with Rodney/Katie in Duet, and really never expected it to go anywhere after that. She made a little bit better impression on me in Sunday, but I'll wait to see what happens in Season 4 before deciding for sure. :) I'm not sure she's a strong enough character for Rodney, but....



Oh yes we need to keep the anti ship threads going amongst a sea of shippyness:)

I seem to remember seeing an anti Shep/Weir thread some time ago, but I don't think it's really relevant now, what with Weir becoming recurring (whatever that actually means) in S4. However I think some of the Atlantis anti ship threads became an excuse for shippers of one pairing to bash another pairing.

I don't know if TPTB plan any shippy stuff for SGA but I think they'd more likely do something with Shep/Teyla if they did, which I hope they don't because Teyla desparately needs some character development and that IMO that doesn't include becoming Shep's girlfriend:(
I hope SGA can be kept free of shipping, at least between main characters, and they don't end up doing something horrible like unending on SGA.