Venator-class Star Destroyer vs. Hive Ship

[ZeldaTheSwordsman]

Another vs thread, inspired by the Hive Ship vs. Battlestar Pegasus topic. Who do you think would win. The Venator-class Star Destroyers are those red and white ones from Revenge of the Sith.

[jnadreth]

Oooooooooooooo

Ummmmmm Considering what a Venator did to an unshielded Providence Class Destroyer (EpIII) I would say the Hive would own it. Against unshielded targets of the 1088m size the Turbolasers(Yes those 4 double turreted cannons) did very little damage against the armour of Grevous's ship. As we know a hive ships organic armour is extremely resistant to damage while the Wraith heavy cannons are very dangerous (Look what they did to the Orion, how they can deplete a 304's shields rapidly and how they can blow other hives up with ease) The Venator is more in the League of the Goa'uld Ha'tak-If I was going to pit a hive against anyone it would be either Home One or an ISD

[ZeldaTheSwordsman]

Actually, the Invisible Hand WASN'T unshielded (only the CONTAINMENT SHIELDS on the hangar were downed) and the Venator was doing serious damage. Furthermore, the Venator also has proton torpedoes. The yield on a proton torpedo can range from tons to gigatons.And don't forget the Venator's huge fighter complement. It's 420, not counting the 40 Republic gunships.

[Crazedwraith]

Hive ships go down to nukes rate at around 1 gigaton. SW Turbolasers, as per the Episode II incredible cross section book are rated at around: 200 gigatons.

Hive ship's going down, badly.

[jnadreth]

The Hive carries 100's of darts and up to 3 Cruisers.
The Invisible Hands shield were failing before she was attacked by the Guarlara(The Venator)
The Venators Proton tubes are all forward-Star Wars Capital ships suck when manouvering compared to Stargate ships
The Nukes that Daedy used in No Mans Land were also 1.2 Gigaton range weapons

[Crazedwraith]

When have we seen a hive manoeuvre at all?

The venator has energy weapons rated at 200 times a typical SG nuke, like the one that destroyed a hive. And they are turreted.

A Hive is just a big fat 11 km target.

And Darts? They can be damaged by assault rifle fire. Starfighters would rip them to shreds.

[jnadreth]

"Spoils of War"

Blasters have a power output of 600gj on Slave 1 (NX Class Phase cannons 500gj from Star Trek))
Lasers are not much more powerful considering an N-1 Starfighter shot through a droideka and barely scratched the wall behind and the Proton on said fighter did about the same damage as an Al'kesh bomb. So where Star Wars dreamed up being able to cause 200gt of damage per shot when ion cannons can do 4.8 megatons. Nowhere did I see 200gt while looking through the incredible Cross sections?????

*Jnadreth remembers comments about how 1 TIE fighter could blow up a Borg Cube in 1 shot*

The hive is about 11-13 time sthe size of Daedy making it around 4400m-5200m.

The Venator is a Carrier design with a light Battleship role, a Wraith hive is a Heavy Battleship/Carrier as it is used for engaging the Aurora Class battleships of the Ancients. Considering the Ancients both feared and respected the Wraith and their technology (This coming from a 50million+ year old race whose technology has only just been pasted by the Asgard-I would say that anyone who could beat them in a war would be able to threaton Star Wars)

[ha'tak_]

star wars ships are not thet good (exept the Death Star)

[Crazedwraith]

Episode II Incredible Cross Sections, in The Acclamaitors stat box. The AotC ICS was written by Dr Curtis Saxton, who also wrote Star Wars Technical Commentaries. His figures are derived from actual scientific calaculations whereas you appear to be going by just eyeballing the pretty explosions.

The figures as I understand it are based of the scene in ESB where an ISD is vapourising asteriods before they get smacked by them. The yeilds for that require kilotons of energy and those are just the ISD's smallest guns. Used for point defense.

I beleive the number for the big guns comes from scaling the turret sizes.

[jnadreth]

Did they account for asteroid composition????

[Crazedwraith]

I beleive they assume they're made out iron and nickel in the same proportions to asteriods we know about.

This Is the link to the asteriod calculations.

[jnadreth]

Just thought I'd ask, the type of weapon they are using would be a good thing to know as lasers is just a sayiing as Star Wars weapons are actually plasma based.

Wookiepedia "The resulting beam carried roughly three or more times the energy of a standard laser cannon beam."

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Turbolaser

2-3 times more powerful which would put laser cannons at around 66-100gt per shot but yet the N-1 Starfighters lasers can't pierce the Hanger walls on Naboo after going through a droideka???????EpI

[Crazedwraith]

You're using a wiki as evidence? And I have no idea where you've got your figures from.

As for the N1 laser cannon thing; as I recall it the lasers didn't hit the wall after going through the droidekas, they went out the hangar doors.

[Ouroboros]

It depends.

Venator from Incredible Cross sections wins. Incredible cross sections makes even some fighters capable of rapid firing kiloton level shots I'm told however, so I'm hesitant to take much of what it says very seriously. I certainly never saw anything like that in any of the starwars I watched. Things would have played out a lot differently just about everywhere if Clone or droid or stomtrooper number 11928 could just flip off the safties and start rapid firing baby Hiroshimas all over his enemies. I don't think even the intentionaly over the top clone wars animated series got anywher near that.

Now a Venator from anything else a Venator appears in in Star Wars probably has a pretty good fight on its hands.

I've been watching the clone wars series and saw the movie and nothing in there makes any of the early star destroyers or confederate ships seem particularly hardcore, Malevolence excepted. There was even a scene recently where a couple of enemy ships started to blow up because they sort of bumped into each other a bit. Compare this to last week's Atlantis where half of a diseased and rotting hive crash landed into the ocean at speed and didn't seem obviously damaged for it. It also compares directly and favourably with how Grevious' flagship started to come apart and then crunched on impact with the runway at the begining of Revenge of Sith.

The hive's obviously got the advantage in hull strength but it's not too much of a surprise considering star war ships use shields as their main defense rather than heavy armour the way it does.

I'm not sure who I'd give it to the majority of the time. I figure the hive is going to be able to absorb a lot more damage just do to it's sheer bulk where as the Venerator will probably go down once its shields fail. Something that doesn't seem too hard to accomplish going by the new clone wars series. The Venator can win if it plays smart though. It definately has more of a chance than the Pegasus ever did. If I was captaining it I'd use all my Y wings escorted by fighters and try to avoid a direct ship on ship slugging match with the hive itself. Star Wars fighters have an edge over darts and if Y wing bombs are good enough to be an issue for the Malevolence they'll be good enough here. Y wings are also hyperspace capable, opening up a whole lot of interesting stand off and cat and mouse options for the Venator.

[Crazedwraith]

Again Incredible Cross Section numbers; were scientifically derived from the films. The kiloton lasers comes Slave 1 blasting asteriods with its main guns in the Obi-Wan chase sequence.

You eyeballing an explosion and going 'that doesn't look kiloton to me!' does not really standup to a guy with a Phd in Astrophysics actually running the numbers.