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    The Path of the Ancients

    this is worthy of a seprate discussion imo.

    we know that the ancients started in the Ori galaxy ( anyone know the name? )

    then when the Ori were getting hugely fervent in their religious estacy, they were pressuring the alterrans to join them, but they believed in science over religion so rather than get wiped out in a fight with the ori, they left. ( the start of their pacifisim imo ).

    then in the 5th race episode, they specifically stated:
    the ancients moved on from our portion of space a long time ago

    we know the asgard are in the ida galaxy, so that would mean that the ancients spent some time in the ida galaxy, but i believe they were at the ida galaxy before MW the first time because we can see a progression from there

    so after being at Ida they either went directly, or somewhere else and then to the MW galaxy. we know they lived here for an extensive period of time, researched and some people ascended the first time. we know this because the sodan had an altar/location where the ancients left their meditation retreat to study and meditate and ascend.

    then the plague broke out in MW, they tried to solve it, partially by trying to invent time travel/machine ( of course, its good to be king sorta contradicts this or it may have happened after going to PG ) which failed. so a large portion ascended, some stayed and died, and a lot moved on to PG. before leaving officially for PG, they created the dakara device, wiped out all life in the MW to exterminate the plague, and then used it again to create all life in the galaxy free of the plague, and then left.

    we are not sure if they created atlantis in the PG or if was made in MW and then flown to PG.. but they stayed here for a long period of time. they discovered/created the wraith, got into a long, pitched battle with them. as trying to create a fighting force due to ships not doing so well, they created nanite based replicators to combat the wraith, but they did it wrong and they had to shut them down. during this whole time, some people occasionally ascended, and then they made the choice to leave the PG galaxy. some ascended rather than leave, and others went to the MW, some settling on earth, and some dispersing to other planets trying to setup some form of civilization before dying. we find proof of this by the monster episode in SGA where its a dome thing meant to allow people to meditate to prepare for ascension.


    /discuss

    #2
    Originally posted by Murzin View Post
    we are not sure if they created atlantis in the PG or if was made in MW and then flown to PG
    /discuss
    Atlantis was built in MW, its shown taking off in the first episode

    *-*Superman*-*
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      #3
      I don't know if they ever lived in Ida, it was never really said what their relationship with it was, but they can't have come across the Asgard before they had discovered the MW. The original Earth Stargate was around 50 million years old, so it predates the dawn of Asgard civilisation, which is only 100 thousand years old. As the Ancients would have been in Pegasus when Asgard civilisation began, they must have either met them when they came back, or some Ancients remained in the MW and encountered the Asgard sometime while the other Ancients were still in Pegasus.
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        #4
        not true, the asgard could have found evidence of the ancients being in their galaxy through archaelogical digs and such.

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          #5
          Where was it said then. It is my believe the Ancients lived in the MW and the Asgard came from Ida to the MW and met the Ancients, Furlings and Nox. We know the Asgard had intergalactic ships 10,000 years ago, so the had them probably earlier, or just used the gate to visit the Ancients. The Ancients had their empire in the MW, the Asgard in Ida. In Lost City, the map of the Ancient's empire before going to pegasus was seen and Ida wasn't mentioned. Maybe the Ancients visited (the Asgard in) Ida sometime, but never had their empire there.

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            #6
            asgard prob got a gate from the ancients

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              #7
              What i dont understand in the whole ancinet story is how Vis uban and Atlantis fit together. Vis uban was the crowning Jewel of the entire ancient civilization at the time when the entire domain of the ancients fell. But it was incomplete. So is it possible that the Lantians and the ancients were indeed not the same race. The Lantians in fact inhabited Pegasus well before the Arrival of Atlantis, and Atlantis was in effect just picking up the surivors of the ancient plauge from the major outposts, like Earth and Toanas before returning to the MW.
              The "real" ancients built Dakara, the WoO device, the DNA resequencers and the repositories as a way of allowing other to follow them and also for them to either defeat or survive the plague. They ultimately failed which is why Vis Uban was not completed. According to Canon Vis uban and Atlantis were both the crowning jewel of the ancients, both built at the same time and left (were not completed) at the same time. Now Either Vis Uban was supposed to be a post plague citidel that altantis would return too, in which case why built atlantis atall when the whole galaxy was under seige from this virus. Is Atlantis merely an escape pod for the last of the ancients, wheras Vis uban and other MW technology what the anceints really were capable of? Or are the Lantians and Alterans completely distinct from each other. I think that your right in a way, that maybe the Ancients that landed in Ida were the Lantians which then moved to Pegasus, while other, later "real" ancients contiuned to the MW. It would explain alot, including the heavy use of Neutronium and the replicator issue (perhaps the replicators were an even older form of weapon than the Pegasus ones, they started research in Ida, then later restarted thier work in Pegasus. It would also explain why TLT went to Pegasus 10,000 years ago rather than back to the MW, even when the Asgard went to the MW 30,000 years ago and seemingly didnt find any advanced races, because there werent any, besides the Nox and Furlings. SO they assumed that when they found the Lantians, they found the ancients, which is wrong because the real ancients died out and ascended. Only the Lantians, a different tribe of ancient that predated the plague, and a handful of Ancients that got picked up from Earth and Toanas amde it out alive.
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              You are the fifth race, your role is clear, if there is any hope in preserving the future it lies with you and your people ~ 8years for those words
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              Original Starship DesignThread
              Sanctuary for all | http://virtualfleet.vze.com/
              11000! green me




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                #8
                Originally posted by immhotep View Post
                The Lantians in fact inhabited Pegasus well before the Arrival of Atlantis, and Atlantis was in effect just picking up the surivors of the ancient plauge from the major outposts, like Earth and Toanas before returning to the MW.
                I'm not aware of evidence that the Lantians were in Pegasus before Atlantis arrived. I was always under the impression that Atlantis was the first to settle Pegasus. Is there an episode you can reference?

                Originally posted by immhotep View Post
                According to Canon Vis uban and Atlantis were both the crowning jewel of the ancients, both built at the same time and left (were not completed) at the same time.
                Again, I'm not aware of anything in canon that states that Vis Uban and Atlantis are the same age. We know from Fallen that Vis Uban was begun some 5 - 10 million years ago just before the plague. All they found of it were stone ruins, no evidence of a city-ship. As for Atlantis I was under the impression, (although it's not proven) that it existed on Earth on the Antarctic continent for most, or all, of the 50 million years it was on Earth, and was the capital of the Ancients' empire in the Milky Way. Some have even speculated that the Alterans brought it with them to MW.

                As for the Ancients and Lantians not being the same race, that's possible. There's even a smattering of evidence that the Ancients either maintained or reestablished a presence in MW during the Pegasus era. But it's still all rather speculative at this point.
                My timeline of the Ancients here.

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                  #9
                  I always thought that Vis Uban was the capital of the Ancient's empire, or was going to be, but then the plague broke out. Then when some of the Ancient's moved to Pegasus in Atlantis, and began calling themselves the Lantean's, Atlantis was the "crown jewel" of the Lantean empire.

                  Daniel: The Others would have stopped you.
                  Jack: They'd have a hell of a fight on their hands...
                  Daniel: You wouldn't do that...
                  Jack: Ba'al would be dead...
                  Daniel: Jack...
                  Jack: ...And don't think I'd stop there!
                  Daniel: You're a better man than that...
                  Jack: That's where you're wrong!

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                    #10
                    Originally posted by LiquidAK View Post
                    I always thought that Vis Uban was the capital of the Ancient's empire, or was going to be, but then the plague broke out.
                    Well, maybe it would have been. But since it was the last city the Ancients were building in MW, I'd assume that somewhere else would act as capital or administrative center in the 40 - 50 million years prior to that.
                    My timeline of the Ancients here.

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                      #11
                      Originally posted by Professor D.H.D. Puddlejumper View Post
                      Again, I'm not aware of anything in canon that states that Vis Uban and Atlantis are the same age. We know from Fallen that Vis Uban was begun some 5 - 10 million years ago just before the plague. All they found of it were stone ruins, no evidence of a city-ship. As for Atlantis I was under the impression, (although it's not proven) that it existed on Earth on the Antarctic continent for most, or all, of the 50 million years it was on Earth, and was the capital of the Ancients' empire in the Milky Way. Some have even speculated that the Alterans brought it with them to MW.
                      The Ancients didn't bring Atlantis with them from the Ori galaxy, they left in a completely different ship. We don't really know how old Atlantis is, only that it left from Earth somewhere between 5 and 10 million years ago which is around the time Vis Uban was being built. Personally I don't think Atlantis would be too much older than this.
                      If it was built soon after the Ancients arrived on Earth then they would probably have developed more advanced technology which would have made Atlantis obsolete by the time they left for Pegasus, and definitely by the time of the war with the Wraith. The fact they never built something more advanced seems to support this theory.
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                        #12
                        Alteran Capital in the Milky Way: Earth, capital city being Atlantis.

                        New Capital World Under Construction: Vis Uban

                        See? Simple. Bis Uban was going to be the new capital of the Alteran Empire, but then the plague broke out and the Ancients were forced to evacuate in the only ships large enough to carry them away; city-ships. So they abandoned their galaxy in Atlantis, the new "crowning jewel" of their domain... as it was their one and only link back to the lives they had known in the Milky Way.
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                          #13
                          That doesnt explain why they built a cityship and a conventional city, both as crowning jewels. Ill accept that we dont know when atlantis was built, but its very very likely that it was to flee the plague, somewhere between 5 and 10 million years ago. This is the approxemate date of everything we have seen from the ancients, nothing about the ancients we have seen predates the plauge, well besides AOT and Toanas. Dakara was built to destroy the plague/life, the time loops was to go back and stop the plague breaking out, vis uban was designed to be the crowning jewel post plague but never got finished, and atlantis was built to escape the plague. The only real thing from the ancients prior to the plague is the Stargates. I think that the plague must have wiped out a large proportion of the ancient civilization in its entirety, with only a few top secret projects kept safe. Even the repositories were built at the time the ancients left otherwise atlantis and vis uban wouldnt have been on the list.
                          Why is Atlantis a cityship and Vis Uban, a theoretically even more advanced, impressive and powerful city, not? Unless the reason they abandoned Vis Uban was because it was much easier to focus all thier resourced on building a single cityship. Although i cant understand why the outposts are landing pads, if atlantis was built to escape..
                          sigpic
                          You are the fifth race, your role is clear, if there is any hope in preserving the future it lies with you and your people ~ 8years for those words
                          Stargate : Genesis |
                          Original Starship DesignThread
                          Sanctuary for all | http://virtualfleet.vze.com/
                          11000! green me




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                            #14
                            Maybe there was more than one city ship or Atlantis settled on other planets before Earth. I think Rising makes it pretty clear that the Ancients and Lantians are the same thing and there was no life before they arrived after the plague. That or both societies merged and refered to each other as one in the same so the Ancients would consider themselves Lantians and part of the race that seeded Pegasus and vica versa.
                            Robert Jastrow (self-proclaimed agnostic): "For the scientist who has lived by his faith in the power of reason, the story ends like a bad dream. He has scaled the mountains of ignorance; he is about to conquer the highest peak; as he pulls himself over the final rock, he is greeted by a band of theologians who have been sitting there for centuries."

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                              #15
                              Originally posted by Buba uognarf View Post
                              Maybe there was more than one city ship or Atlantis settled on other planets before Earth. I think Rising makes it pretty clear that the Ancients and Lantians are the same thing and there was no life before they arrived after the plague. That or both societies merged and refered to each other as one in the same so the Ancients would consider themselves Lantians and part of the race that seeded Pegasus and vica versa.
                              I'm pretty sure that the Lantians are only the Ancients that went to Pegasus, as the planet they settled on was called Lantia (where Atlantis was until we flew it to a different world.) So the Lantians are still Ancients, but only the ones that went to Pegasus.

                              Daniel: The Others would have stopped you.
                              Jack: They'd have a hell of a fight on their hands...
                              Daniel: You wouldn't do that...
                              Jack: Ba'al would be dead...
                              Daniel: Jack...
                              Jack: ...And don't think I'd stop there!
                              Daniel: You're a better man than that...
                              Jack: That's where you're wrong!

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