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    Too many missed opportunities...

    Well, thats at least my impression after reading the episode- plot-descriptions for the remaining episodes of atlantis fifth season.

    I know this is a big complaint, esspecially because we do not exactly know what will happen in the second half of this last season, but judging the information one could gather by simply browsing through GW I am very disapointed.

    Regardless if the writers did not know whether or not they'll have another season to close some storylines they seem to be focusing on stand alone - been there - done that - medicore filler episodes.

    Fine, these episode might be well made with some funny moments but nonetheless there is no central theme about anything, particularly not the freshly introduced new enemy just slightly variantions of plots we've seen before either in SGA or SG-1.

    Come on, this is the last season and perhaps the last chance to keep the fandom alive for the forthcoming DVD-only-Sale-Episodes and this is what we have to expect?

    Imho it looks an awful lot like the writers did not seem to care about or simply ran out of ideas.Instead of finally establishing a central theme they're just reviveing old ideas and enemies-not very inspireing at all.

    Perhaps some of you consider me being just a frustrated fanboy, but thats why I believe that the whole rest of the season is just one big missed opportunity...*sigh*
    Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better.

    #2
    Of course there are a lot of missed opportunties. This show has many more stories to tell and complete and should of been renewed for a 6th season, but the baboons at MGM only care about money. A new show would be cheaper to produce but would bring in the same revenue as SGA did.
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      #3
      Originally posted by Briangate78 View Post
      Of course there are a lot of missed opportunties. This show has many more stories to tell and complete and should of been renewed for a 6th season, but the baboons at MGM only care about money. A new show would be cheaper to produce but would bring in the same revenue as SGA did.
      Missed opportunities I would agree with. I thought though that Universe was costing as much as sga to produce, but as information seems sketchy at best for this im not 100% sure what the difference is or will end up being
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        #4
        Originally posted by asgard.prior View Post
        Well, thats at least my impression after reading the episode- plot-descriptions for the remaining episodes of atlantis fifth season.

        I know this is a big complaint, esspecially because we do not exactly know what will happen in the second half of this last season, but judging the information one could gather by simply browsing through GW I am very disapointed.

        Regardless if the writers did not know whether or not they'll have another season to close some storylines they seem to be focusing on stand alone - been there - done that - medicore filler episodes.

        Fine, these episode might be well made with some funny moments but nonetheless there is no central theme about anything, particularly not the freshly introduced new enemy just slightly variantions of plots we've seen before either in SGA or SG-1.

        Come on, this is the last season and perhaps the last chance to keep the fandom alive for the forthcoming DVD-only-Sale-Episodes and this is what we have to expect?

        Imho it looks an awful lot like the writers did not seem to care about or simply ran out of ideas.Instead of finally establishing a central theme they're just reviveing old ideas and enemies-not very inspireing at all.

        Perhaps some of you consider me being just a frustrated fanboy, but thats why I believe that the whole rest of the season is just one big missed opportunity...*sigh*
        Have you actually watched any episodes...? Because just reading plot summaries is a terrible substitute.
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          #5
          Originally posted by s09119 View Post
          Have you actually watched any episodes...? Because just reading plot summaries is a terrible substitute.
          Well thats true for some eps, but i wish to God I had just read the summary for "Whispers" and not subjected my eyeballs to that bunch of doodoo
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            #6
            Originally posted by stclare View Post
            Missed opportunities I would agree with. I thought though that Universe was costing as much as sga to produce, but as information seems sketchy at best for this im not 100% sure what the difference is or will end up being
            It was said by many sources that SGU going into it's 1st season would be less expensive than Atlantis in it's 6th season. SGU's 1st season could likely cost a little more than SGA's 1st season.
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              #7
              Originally posted by Briangate78 View Post
              It was said by many sources that SGU going into it's 1st season would be less expensive than Atlantis in it's 6th season. SGU's 1st season could likely cost a little more than SGA's 1st season.
              It sure doesnt make the pill any easier to swallow
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                #8
                Have you actually watched any episodes...? Because just reading plot summaries is a terrible substitute.
                Well, I'm wondering if you've read my post because assuming is an even more terrible substitute Look here:

                I know this is a big complaint, esspecially because we do not exactly know what will happen in the second half of this last season, but judging the information one could gather by simply browsing through GW I am very disapointed.
                I did not pretend to know exactly what will happen in the upcoming episodes but unless the episode descriptions and spoilers are completly wrong there won't be any surprising elements regarding my major compain (central theme missing, only standalone eps we've seen this or another way before) to discover.

                As I said before, it doesn't matter whether or not the writers knew the show would be canceled, the season itself lacks of creativity and a central plot-an issue that made other seasons of sga and sg1 quite successful.
                Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better.

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                  #9
                  Originally posted by stclare View Post
                  It sure doesnt make the pill any easier to swallow
                  Yeah, It was more personal for me, since I felt lied to. I can tell you in PM if you like.
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                    #10
                    Originally posted by Briangate78 View Post
                    It was said by many sources that SGU going into it's 1st season would be less expensive than Atlantis in it's 6th season. SGU's 1st season could likely cost a little more than SGA's 1st season.
                    The flaw with thinking only about money is that with a brand new show, everything starts over.

                    New characters, new props, new sets. That's an immense undertaking and if it isn't done right, it will ruin the show. On top of all that, you have to create an entirely new story - something that will catch people's attention and hold it for more than the pilot episode.

                    An established show, while perhaps costing more in the salary department, costs less in the long run as you have existing sets and props, existing cgi (the Daedalus and like vessels already exist - to design a new ship will take time and money for just the ship, let alone the cost to make sure it works right and looks good in its first scenes) is available, and characters are established and have formed relationships that add flavor. Add in the fact that an established show has a fan base, and it's almost always the pure winner in the numbers game.

                    Either TPTB are totally brain-dead when it comes to how much it costs to actually start a show off the ground or there is some other reason that they wanted to axe Atlantis in favor of SGU.

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                      #11
                      Originally posted by JeffKnight View Post
                      The flaw with thinking only about money is that with a brand new show, everything starts over.

                      New characters, new props, new sets. That's an immense undertaking and if it isn't done right, it will ruin the show. On top of all that, you have to create an entirely new story - something that will catch people's attention and hold it for more than the pilot episode.

                      An established show, while perhaps costing more in the salary department, costs less in the long run as you have existing sets and props, existing cgi (the Daedalus and like vessels already exist - to design a new ship will take time and money for just the ship, let alone the cost to make sure it works right and looks good in its first scenes) is available, and characters are established and have formed relationships that add flavor. Add in the fact that an established show has a fan base, and it's almost always the pure winner in the numbers game.

                      Either TPTB are totally brain-dead when it comes to how much it costs to actually start a show off the ground or there is some other reason that they wanted to axe Atlantis in favor of SGU.

                      Yup especially with how well the ratings have been for the show. The most recent rating was a record for them for "The Lost Tribe", and the final numbers are not even out yet for that episode.
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                        #12
                        Originally posted by asgard.prior View Post
                        Well, thats at least my impression after reading the episode- plot-descriptions for the remaining episodes of atlantis fifth season.

                        I know this is a big complaint, esspecially because we do not exactly know what will happen in the second half of this last season, but judging the information one could gather by simply browsing through GW I am very disapointed.

                        Regardless if the writers did not know whether or not they'll have another season to close some storylines they seem to be focusing on stand alone - been there - done that - medicore filler episodes.

                        Fine, these episode might be well made with some funny moments but nonetheless there is no central theme about anything, particularly not the freshly introduced new enemy just slightly variantions of plots we've seen before either in SGA or SG-1.

                        Come on, this is the last season and perhaps the last chance to keep the fandom alive for the forthcoming DVD-only-Sale-Episodes and this is what we have to expect?

                        Imho it looks an awful lot like the writers did not seem to care about or simply ran out of ideas.Instead of finally establishing a central theme they're just reviveing old ideas and enemies-not very inspireing at all.

                        Perhaps some of you consider me being just a frustrated fanboy, but thats why I believe that the whole rest of the season is just one big missed opportunity...*sigh*
                        They have actually had two central story themes this season.

                        1. It is that Pegasus galaxy is a lot more complicated than before and things moving towards a final conclusion. Todd fraction becoming the dominant force in the galaxy been hinting at. After the lost tribe i
                        Spoiler:
                        t almost certain he now has a massive technological advantage over the other fractions. He not stupid enough not to of downloaded weapons and shield schematics for Daedalus and apply what he could to his hives.

                        Lost tribe also introduce the idea that their are other Alien fractions out their their that sense it time to stop hiding and move against the humans and the Wraith, Daedalus Variation, Lost tribe. We got the introduction of many more advance civilization out their, Ghost in the Machine. We met one of their races in combat and encounter a other one technologies in Daedalus Variation, Tracker, which hinted to them far in advance of ground combat technologies than we are.
                        We now got the introduction of the human worlds joining together into a single Federation, with Atlantis people supplying the supplies and moving to become a dominant military power behind the Federation.

                        So the above proves their been over arching them this season, it just aint been central to every story line. But it is the fact the Wraith and humans are all moving together into one alliance in their respected races, the wraith through war and federation through talk and other races have technology equal or exceeding our own and that these other races have decided to move and make their own statement. The wraith somehow giving up feeding on humans using the retro virus.
                        That the overall theme this season.

                        You got to remember Scifi do not like BSG over long arch type series, that why they tried to get them to produce single episode stories in season 3. So stargate writers getting around this by introducing one over arching story through little tidbits of information in each episode.

                        Unfortunately the series is cancel and we are unlikely to see fruition of their overall direction they were heading, in which probably wraith eventually help us against the other races and somehow become to live side by side with humans.
                        Instead we will probably just get a big battle with wraith vs Atlantis/travelers.
                        Last edited by Skydiver; 27 October 2008, 06:49 PM.

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                          #13
                          Perhaps I am the one who misses the big picture here, but do you really believe there is even more than one central story in this season that has been properly developed by simply mentioning some facts or hinting at some possible future devolopments in stories that basically had nothing to do with the whole story-arc?

                          We know since season 1 that there are other human fractions in the pegasus galaxy-so these are no big news for anyone who has watched sga permanently.
                          We could start with Teyla's race. Has there been any kind of development? Whats about her child, her husband? Any more so called hints about them to drive their story forward in your point of view?
                          What about the guy from tracker you mentioned? What did we learn in that episode apart from the things we already knew-there are other humaniod people out there,either still hunted by the wraith or hiding from them.
                          And what about the unknown race from "Daedalus Variation's" you've also mentioned?
                          It would be quite surprising seeing them again but still most unlikely...I think this race will share the same fate like several races of sg1,which, by the way, at least had a whole story spon around them...this one even hasn't been properly introduced.

                          Take a look at other seasons of sga or sg1. Enemies have been slowly introduced and we had one or even several seasons a story arc about their discovery, fighting them and bringing the conflicts in some way to a satisfying end. This is not happening in this season. They are bringing back the asgard,but for what purpose? The only possible episode we might be seeing them again could be "Enemy at the gate"-thats all. Now they're reviving the dead Genii-Commander? For what purpose? Imho this is just another filler, but for you this is also part of the bigger plan?

                          If you feel to be benevolently towards the writers-thats fine. We all can interpret some of the filler-episodes as part of the big picture then.But if you are realistic you have to admit that these tidbits of information are completely useless and wont be driving any kind of central-story-arc forward. What's the point anyway in shooting a 45 minute episode with a standalone story and placing some tidbits of information (mostly already obvious or useless) in them? Shouldn't it be the other way around?
                          You believe that's part of the strategy? Give me a break!
                          The episodes in question are just standalone eps with no greater meaning for any central-story-theme.
                          If you feel any different I sincerly envy you because I am,as I mentioned before,missing the big picture.
                          Last edited by asgard.prior; 27 October 2008, 08:18 AM.
                          Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better.

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                            #14
                            Originally posted by asgard.prior View Post
                            Perhaps I am the one who misses the big picture here, but do you really believe there is even more than one central story in this season that has been properly developed by simply mentioning some facts or hinting at some possible future devolopments in stories that basically had nothing to do with the whole story-arc?
                            We know since season 1 that there are other human fractions in the pegasus galaxy-so these are no big news for anyone who has watched sga permanently.
                            Well done. But that fraction was largely a single culture who trying to destroy the Wraith on their own. The new Federation is different in the fact that they are trying to unite all humans in the galaxy under a single alliance and give the human in the Pegasus a galaxy a single voice. .

                            We could start with Teyla's race. Has there been any kind of development? Whats about her child, her husband? Any more so called hints about them to drive their story forward in your point of view?
                            We we know he living on the base, his people been relocated to a other planet and they undid all of the genetic manipulation the Micheal did to them. What else do you want to see teyla breast freeding and having restless nights. no thank you, it pretty clear the Father actually wanted her to go out and fight and create a better world for his son to live in. Plus we got a baby centric ep coming up soon I believe.
                            Spoiler:
                            But the short story of that ep, baby kick Micheal ass out of Atlantis.


                            What about the guy from tracker you mentioned? What did we learn in that episode apart from the things we already knew-there are other humaniod people out there,either still hunted by the wraith or hiding from them. And what about the unknown race from "Daedalus Variation's" you've also mentioned?
                            It would be quite surprising seeing them again but still most unlikely...I think this race will share the same fate like several races of sg1,which, by the way, at least had a whole story spon around them...this one even hasn't been properly introduced.
                            Actually we never known that before and it never been said before the Ghost in the Machine. We known about the travellers but now we know their a lot more out their than we previously knew before the season began. In time, who knows perhaps DV aliens will come in future episode or perhaps they were just hint for what season 6 was about. May be they turn out to be the enemy at the gate and not little old Todd who had his butt handed to him by them.


                            Take a look at other seasons of sga or sg1. Enemies have been slowly introduced and we had one or even several seasons a story arc about their discovery, fighting them and bringing the conflicts in some way to a satisfying end. This is not happening in this season. They are bringing back the asgard,but for what purpose? The only possible episode we might be seeing them again could be "Enemy at the gate"-thats all. Now they're reviving the dead Genii-Commander? For what purpose? Imho this is just another filler, but for you this is also part of the bigger plan?
                            They bought back the Asgard because fans wanted them back. They bought back Koyle because fans did not like how he died, blame the fans if you will, if they stop demanding stuff then writer might stop doing.
                            It could be, It could be the introduction of a other fraction. Genii do not seem the type to have the technology to bring back dead people. May a other hint of other fractions moving, want to seize control of the Genii and before Atlantis got involve the federation now their plans are ruin they want to take revenge on Atlantis and are going to use Koyle as their puppet.

                            [/QUOTE]If you feel to be benevolently towards the writers-thats fine. We all can interpret some of the filler-episodes as part of the big picture then.But if you are realistic you have to admit that these tidbits of information are completely useless and wont be driving any kind of central-story-arc forward. What's the point anyway in shooting a 45 minute episode with a standalone story and placing some tidbits of information (mostly already obvious or useless) in them? Shouldn't it be the other way around?
                            You believe that's part of the strategy? Give me a break!
                            The episodes in question are just standalone eps with no greater meaning for any central-story-theme.
                            If you feel any different I sincerly envy you because I am,as I mentioned before,missing the big picture.[/QUOTE]

                            I would like to believe it part of a grounder plan. Remember eps in SG1 and or SGA could been fuller eps and non fuller, for instant common ground could of been a largely fuller ep with no development of story apart from John hating Koyle even more, but in the end we had a rather complicated wraith character introduce and continuing plot which as lasted two full seasons. Half of a other.

                            The point is they are not allow to run it any other way because Scifi do not want continuing over arching story line type shows, where every episode is linked together in grounder scheme of things. They single episode and single story based per episode type series, Eureka is a prime example is what scifi will allow and want.

                            If you want the type of show with every episode is linked togeather, then watch Lost, Heroes, Fringe, the new season of tourchwoord, all are run with out single filler ep, well Lost had one in like four seasons.

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                              #15
                              Well done. But that fraction was largely a single culture who trying to destroy the Wraith on their own. The new Federation is different in the fact that they are trying to unite all humans in the galaxy under a single alliance and give the human in the Pegasus a galaxy a single voice.
                              I wasn't talking about just one fraction in particular, but about many human populations in the galaxy that have been visited throughout the first seasons.Take a closer look at gw episode guide to check out!

                              We we know he living on the base, his people been relocated to a other planet and they undid all of the genetic manipulation the Micheal did to them. What else do you want to see teyla breast freeding and having restless nights. no thank you, it pretty clear the Father actually wanted her to go out and fight and create a better world for his son to live in. Plus we got a baby centric ep coming up soon I believe.
                              Oh yes, I'd very much like to see Teyla breast feeding either her baby or her husband-whatever.
                              Let me make this simple for you:
                              Mentioning the fact that the writers brought up this whole issue and never gave Teylas family any screentime after the Michael-Story came to an end (well kind of as we yet have to see) was an attempt of mine to prove how the writers have dealt with unfinished storylines.
                              While on one hand you appreciate these so called tidbits of information on the other you didn't seem bother that for anyone who had recently turned in to sga it would be surprising to see that Teylas in fact has a family.

                              Actually we never known that before and it never been said before the Ghost in the Machine. We known about the travellers but now we know their a lot more out their than we previously knew before the season began. In time, who knows perhaps DV aliens will come in future episode or perhaps they were just hint for what season 6 was about. May be they turn out to be the enemy at the gate and not little old Todd who had his butt handed to him by them.
                              Oh yes we did.What about Ronan's former mates? Or do they not count because they came from another planet?

                              They bought back the Asgard because fans wanted them back. They bought back Koyle because fans did not like how he died, blame the fans if you will, if they stop demanding stuff then writer might stop doing.
                              It could be, It could be the introduction of a other fraction. Genii do not seem the type to have the technology to bring back dead people. May a other hint of other fractions moving, want to seize control of the Genii and before Atlantis got involve the federation now their plans are ruin they want to take revenge on Atlantis and are going to use Koyle as their puppet.
                              If you really believe that the writers bowed to the wishes of their fans let me ask you one question:
                              Why didn't they bring the furlings ? They too are one of the most wanted species of the whole stargate universe.

                              You simply shouldn't state those things as if they were facts.

                              You are convinced that the fans did not like the way Koyle died-I could extend your argumentation that fans didn't like the way the asgard died and so on and on...
                              I for one am assuming (just you like you) that they brought back the asgard because they simply ran out of ideas.The same can be said about Genii-Koyle.Just reviving the dead.

                              I would like to believe it part of a grounder plan. Remember eps in SG1 and or SGA could been fuller eps and non fuller, for instant common ground could of been a largely fuller ep with no development of story apart from John hating Koyle even more, but in the end we had a rather complicated wraith character introduce and continuing plot which as lasted two full seasons. Half of a other.
                              I would like to believe that too but it would be prudent to at least consider the possibility that the writers did not put that much creative energy into the last half of the season because they knew it would be the last one-saving some perhaps more interesting story-arcs and races for the dvd-sales.
                              The alternative sounds even worse to me:
                              The writers did not expect sga season 5 being the last one and did this awful lot of filler-episodes on purpose...i personally don't see any of the forthcoming episodes going into any direction that would lead us into a bigger story-arc for a possible 6th season-only the cliffhanger might held some surprises for us.

                              If you want the type of show with every episode is linked togeather, then watch Lost, Heroes, Fringe, the new season of tourchwoord, all are run with out single filler ep, well Lost had one in like four seasons.
                              Pardon, but this is just ********.This sounds pretty much like a fanboy-argument like "If you criticise it and if you don't like it just don't watch it".
                              As I said several times before, sg1 and sga had some great story arcs-they haven't been the "wrong type of show", but in this season,unlike the past seasons,there a many more standalone eps than story arcs, a few new races that are facing no further development and at least 2 recycled races/characters...
                              Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better.

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