The end of Stargate???

[luckygate]

When SG1 ended it was stated that the show had an 11th season in mind same went for SGA it was stated that there were plans of a 6th season, this is not exacly encouraging for SGU that is not being well recived with Stargate fans. It seams that when a show is popular the power that be want to send it to a movie searies. I know that I can't say too much about this new searies but from what I've read and seen as a trend with this franchise the show will last 2 maybe 3 seasons. I hope to be proven wrong and this show turns out to be as good as SG1 and will last 10 seasons but then againd SGA could have done that too and SG1 may have gone on for another 5 but they were cut off at thier prime. Will this be the end of Stargate as a TV searies? Will they kill another golden goose just to go to a DVD? Was this the shot that killed Stargate like ST: Enterprise did to Startrek? Or will this be the next greatest Sci-fi show to hit TV? As it stands right now only the fans of 2 acknowledged prematurely can say for sure after the show airs.

[FightforAtlantis]

Stargate Universe has maybe only two outcomes from where I see it:

1. They get cancelled early on because the show lacks quality, depth, and the characters are cliche' or lame. So maybe around the first to third season.

2. They last around five to seven seasons because it appeals to a large and unintelligent mainstream. So the show may be doing really badly in our eyes but ironically Scifi & MGM only cancel a show when it's doing good, not when it's doing bad.

After SGU is cancelled there will likely never be any Stargate shows for sometime do to it's recent failure. Likewise, it would a be a long time for a successful remake of the series.

[ferrari20092]

I think it will be more like startrek.... the 3rd series will last 4 I'm hoping 5 seasons or so.. Making movies for SG1 and Atlantis all the way.. Hopefully after Universe they bring about yet another series. I've always wanted a series that takes place after the stargate program goes public. That would last a few season, then it would die down with major motion pictures for a few years then be forgotten just like startrek.. That's my prediction on the next 10 years or so.

[akren]

STARGATE Programme eventually being made public would be nioce, considering all the close calls they had, the SGC can't keep it hidden forever. What will the people of Earth do once they realize we have been active out in the galaxy for long & done so much already (including allies, enemies, discoveries, etc)?

I am giving SGU a chance, but it does sound like it could go either way & I deinfately don't want 9021No in Space! :mckay:

I sincerely hope this doesn't hearld the end for STARGATE as a franchise, I want it to continue on for ages, like BOND has, a never-ending Saga would be nioce (but pushing it I know, but I am an eternal optomist! :D). Here's hoping for another hit! :)

[TheHumanElement]

But isn't part of the appeal of Stargate the idea that what is occuring in the show actually exists? If you make the program public then it takes it out of the realm of extreme possibility. I'd like to see a Stargate show where the Stargate goes public, but I'd want it to take place in the far future. Maybe a version of Stargate about time travel would work. This way it would stay connected to the present, but at the same time we'd be able to see a version of SG go public.

[JohnDuh]

Stargate Universe has maybe only two outcomes from where I see it:

1. They get cancelled early on because the show lacks quality, depth, and the characters are cliche' or lame.


Didn't hurt Atlantis ;-)

[StoyBoy720]

Universe is FAR from "the end" of Stargate. It's being poorly received now for a few reasons:


It was greenlit the day after Atlantis was (VERY ABRUPTLY) canceled. Backlash, anyone?
The cast is mainly younger, giving an impression that the older audiences won't like it.
The public read the casting breakdown verbatim, which uses stereotypical descriptions as a jumping off point only. Having worked in the industry, the particular language used is normal, but has been misinterpreted by the masses as only being two-dimensional.
There is nothing to show for it yet. The pilot has only just recently been written, the main sets are being built, and casting has only begun within the last 2-3 weeks.


It's TOO EARLY to judge Universe. Yet people are convinced

Universe will only fail when the fans make it fail. All this negative buzz before a single frame of the pilot has even been shot is only going to hurt its final reception. Fan negativity will be a far sharper sword in the side of Universe than the actual final product.

And the structure of Universe has a built-in reset button. If the general reaction to a story arc or some villains is overly negative, then *bamf* the ship jumps to a new galaxy. New rules, new villains, new story.

Just please, wait for the final product before hating on Universe. If people honestly don't like it then, fine. That's a completely respectable standpoint. You watched it, gave it a try, and wasn't for you. Fair enough.

In the mean time, trust Brad Wright. He's been there since the beginning. He won't let this project suck. He's been wanting to do this since before SG-1 got canceled. It's not some thrown-together project even though it's moving rapidly now. This has been in the planning and concept stages for years.

(And if nothing else, MMO fans should love it as it'll surely give you a TON of more places to play in the Stargate Worlds expansions. :p)

[GraceONeill]

Universe is FAR from "the end" of Stargate. It's being poorly received now for a few reasons:


It was greenlit the day after Atlantis was (VERY ABRUPTLY) canceled. Backlash, anyone?
The cast is mainly younger, giving an impression that the older audiences won't like it.
The public read the casting breakdown verbatim, which uses stereotypical descriptions as a jumping off point only. Having worked in the industry, the particular language used is normal, but has been misinterpreted by the masses as only being two-dimensional.
There is nothing to show for it yet. The pilot has only just recently been written, the main sets are being built, and casting has only begun within the last 2-3 weeks.


It's TOO EARLY to judge Universe. Yet people are convinced

Universe will only fail when the fans make it fail. All this negative buzz before a single frame of the pilot has even been shot is only going to hurt its final reception. Fan negativity will be a far sharper sword in the side of Universe than the actual final product.

And the structure of Universe has a built-in reset button. If the general reaction to a story arc or some villains is overly negative, then *bamf* the ship jumps to a new galaxy. New rules, new villains, new story.

Just please, wait for the final product before hating on Universe. If people honestly don't like it then, fine. That's a completely respectable standpoint. You watched it, gave it a try, and wasn't for you. Fair enough.

In the mean time, trust Brad Wright. He's been there since the beginning. He won't let this project suck. He's been wanting to do this since before SG-1 got canceled. It's not some thrown-together project even though it's moving rapidly now. This has been in the planning and concept stages for years.

(And if nothing else, MMO fans should love it as it'll surely give you a TON of more places to play in the Stargate Worlds expansions. :p)

Here, Here!

I've been a big fan of SG-1/Atlantis basically since it's started but just because they got cancelled doesn't mean I'm not going to give Universe a try. Sure, it might not be the best but personally I'm not ready to see Stargate end just yet.

[Daniel Jackson]

When SG1 ended it was stated that the show had an 11th season in mind
SciFi cancelled the show, because it got too expensive to produce. We don't know why they promised Season 11 and then turned around and said nevermind. MGM wanted to sell the show to another network, but SciFi said no. We got two movies with a third in preproduction.


same went for SGA it was stated that there were plans of a 6th season
Was there? There were six-year contracts for the actors, but were there actual plans for a sixth season? Everything I've read has indicated that the show was cancelled so it would end on a high note instead of fading into obscurity. Ending on a high note also makes it easier to get movies made. Ultimately, the idea is to end on top, not as a shadow of it's former self that no one cares about anymore. The show ended for entirely different reasons than SG-1. I suspect that it also ended to make room for Universe, but MGM/SciFi/Producers won't admit to this. I suspect that it is true, but that they don't want to admit it for fear of a negative audience reaction.


this is not exacly encouraging for SGU that is not being well recived with Stargate fans.
It's not being well recieved by the GateWorld community. That doesn't mean the majority of fans and casual viewers won't like the show.


It seams that when a show is popular the power that be want to send it to a movie searies.
No. SG-1 was cancelled for being too expensive. Movies were made to keep it going in a different format. Atlantis was cancelled to end on a high note, but I suspect the real reason was to make room for Universe. MGM's been pushing for a third show, and the producers of Atlantis have been saying they don't want to do two shows at once. I think it's a bit obvious what happened. Neither show was cancelled so movies could be made. The movies are an after thought.


I know that I can't say too much about this new searies but from what I've read and seen as a trend with this franchise the show will last 2 maybe 3 seasons.
Based on...? SG-1 lasted five years on Showtime, five years on SciFi. Atlantis lasted five years on SciFi. If we are to go on this pattern, then we can predict that Universe will last five years, provided it is of good quallity.


I hope to be proven wrong and this show turns out to be as good as SG1 and will last 10 seasons but then againd SGA could have done that too and SG1 may have gone on for another 5 but they were cut off at thier prime.
First off, SG-1 only lasted ten years, because it moved from one network to another half way through it's run. Both networks only commited to five years. SG-1 ended in it's prime? I liked the Ori saga, but the show's high point was Season 8 when O'Neill was still the star, and all of the major story arcs came to a close. I would have been fine ending it there with the Ori saga simply being a movie. That said, I'm not sorry the show continued. While it wasn't as good as the O'Neill years, it was still entertaining, and the movie was a big payoff.


Will this be the end of Stargate as a TV searies?
Only if it gets cancelled prematurely. Then again, MGM may decide it was a fluke and try again with a fourth series and go back to a planet-based setting.


Was this the shot that killed Stargate like ST: Enterprise did to Startrek?
Enterprise didn't kill Star Trek. That franchise's demise was a long, complicated road that began in 1993 when Deep Space Nine began.


Or will this be the next greatest Sci-fi show to hit TV?
It doesn't have to be the greatest sci-fi show. It just has to be good enough to hold an audience.

[StoyBoy720]

Was there? There were six-year contracts for the actors, but were there actual plans for a sixth season?

It was mainly due to Joe Mallozzi's blog and interviews, stating that Season 5 will end with a clifffhanger and saying something to the extent of "it will be followed up by either another season or a movie." Also, if my memory serves me correctly, he has said in some places that he was hopeful for a sixth season. I believe in his blog, when asked how long he expected/wanted Atlantis to run, he said something along the lines of hoping for 6-7 seasons.



First off, SG-1 only lasted ten years, because it moved from one network to another half way through it's run. Both networks only commited to five years. SG-1 ended in it's prime? I liked the Ori saga, but the show's high point was Season 8 when O'Neill was still the star, and all of the major story arcs came to a close. I would have been fine ending it there with the Ori saga simply being a movie. That said, I'm not sorry the show continued. While it wasn't as good as the O'Neill years, it was still entertaining, and the movie was a big payoff.

Very good points with Showtime. I think that's overlooked a lot.

(And agreed, Seasons 7-8 of SG-1 were it's best, IMHO).

I also wonder if SG-1 would have been canceled when it was if the producers had actually gone ahead and rebranded the show Stargate Command back during Season 9.



Enterprise didn't kill Star Trek. That franchise's demise was a long, complicated road that began in 1993 when Deep Space Nine began.

Blasphemy. I flippin' loved DS9. But "different strokes..."



It doesn't have to be the greatest sci-fi show. It just has to be good enough to hold an audience.

Amen to that.

Part of me wonders if the Atlantis fans worry not that Universe will be bad, but that it will be good, causing some indirect justification for canceling Atlantis "to make way for Universe."

[ShadowMaat]

All that remains to be seen is whether pandering to the so-called "younger" crowd will help or hurt the show. It could go either way. Folks could love the shallower tone, the emphasis on sex "relationships" and the youngness of the cast... or it could turn out to be so generic and derivative that it fails to capture enough of the audience.

Having Stargate in the title doesn't make it an automatic win in my book, but I've seen plenty of people say they will blindly watch anything "no matter how bad" just because it's Stargate. :rolleyes: I doubt they'd be enough to save the show on their own, but combined with a fresh and unsuspecting audience it could work. I figure if it survives its first year, it'll survive to Year Five before the plug is pulled. Five is the Golden Number in television and Skiffy in particular seems to be greedy to collect those 100th Episode rewards.

However, the same tired writers will be writing the same tired stories and given the way the show is to be skewed it sounds as if they're going to be given free rein to exploit their worst traits. I wouldn't be surprised if we saw more Tower and Irresistible-type episodes in SGU. But hey, maybe vulgar humor and loose morals are exactly what audiences want... in which case I shudder for the future of the franchise. ;)

If SGU fails to take off I think the franchise could be put on the back burner for a while, but if it's a success... Well, the franchise may continue, but I doubt it'd be in any form I'd care to watch. There are plenty more who will, though, and it's on those people that TPTB and the Suits are banking.

EDIT: And for the record, no, I'm not upset about the cancellation of Atlantis and no, I'm not planning to boycott SGU... I'm just not gonna watch it. :D Derivative plot and overly familiar characters? Written by the people who destroyed SG-1 and Atlantis? No thanks.

[Daniel Jackson]

It was mainly due to Joe Mallozzi's blog and interviews, stating that Season 5 will end with a clifffhanger and saying something to the extent of "it will be followed up by either another season or a movie." Also, if my memory serves me correctly, he has said in some places that he was hopeful for a sixth season. I believe in his blog, when asked how long he expected/wanted Atlantis to run, he said something along the lines of hoping for 6-7 seasons.
It sounds more like he was hopeful for a renewal than anything else. I was hopeful too, but that doesn't mean there was going to be a sixth season that was subsequently aborted.


Very good points with Showtime. I think that's overlooked a lot.
Thanks.


I also wonder if SG-1 would have been canceled when it was if the producers had actually gone ahead and rebranded the show Stargate Command back during Season 9.
The whole rebranding thing is silly. Changing the name doesn't magically make it a new show. It's still the adventures of SG-1 traveling through the Stargate each week. Those watching a Command episode, having missed the beginning, would think they are watching SG-1 with new characters. Doesn't that defeat the purpose of rebranding?


Blasphemy. I flippin' loved DS9. But "different strokes..."
I didn't say DS9 killed ST. I said 1993 was when the downfall began. Try not to leap to conclussions. Long story short, there was oversaturation by having two shows on the air. The audience was split between TNG and DS9, and then DS9 and VOY. The TNG's mainstream audience moved on to VOY while DS9 drew in the sci-fi geeks. Then there were the movies. It was all too much. Voyager's finale was the place to end it, because people were still interested. When Enterprise came along, people just didn't care anymore. Then UPN didn't care when they got a new president a year into the show's run. It never had a chance. You can't point the finger at any one man or production. It was a long, crazy road to cancellation.


Part of me wonders if the Atlantis fans worry not that Universe will be bad, but that it will be good, causing some indirect justification for canceling Atlantis "to make way for Universe."
I wouldn't be surprised.

[StoyBoy720]

Daniel Jackson - I was only being facetious about the whole DS9 thing. :p You make some very good points with that, which I agree with.

Regarding the "rebranding" I was mainly curious with how far it would go, if it would still be "Season 9 with a new title" or "treated as Season 1 of a new show." If it were the latter, odds are it would have lasted at least another season or so.

All speculation of course.

Regarding ShadowMaat's post; just because the ages of the main characters is younger doesn't mean at all that the show is going to follow the same themes of 90210 or The OC. That's what "shippers" are for in fandom anyway :p.

I made an example in a similar post about the "Star Wars: Young Jedi Knights" series of novels by Kevin J. Anderson and Rebecca Moesta. They treated the stories told in those books like any other adult (age-wise, not pornographic content) novel, but focused them on characters who happened to be in their teens.

Surely we all remember the "younger cast" clip from "200." If the producers can make that in pure jest, I HIGHLY doubt they would intend to try to make a show with that kind of content or tone in any kind of serious light.

And again, the characters have been misinterpreted to be "bland" because it was a casting breakdown. The industry finds actors based on type. Then the actors that are hired give that character life. I mean, imagine some of the breakdowns from the previous shows:

Daniel Jackson: Caucasian Male, 25-35. MUST resemble James Spader from Stargate.

Captain Doctor Samantha Carter: Female, 30s. Air Force Captain. Computer genius and astrophysicist.

Teal'c: Male, 20s-40s. Strong noble warrior of the Jaffa race. Great sense of honor and loyalty. First seen as a follower of the enemy, a change of heart allows him to join the fight. Please submit all ethnicities.

See what I mean?

[Browncoat1984]

I'm wondering, regarding Universe...there's of course a lot of negative backlash on THIS site, but what has been the response to the series among other Stargate fansites?

[Jack_Bauer]

I'm wondering, regarding Universe...there's of course a lot of negative backlash on THIS site, but what has been the response to the series among other Stargate fansites?

lol you would probs have to go to those sites to find out :D

[ShadowMaat]

Regarding ShadowMaat's post; just because the ages of the main characters is younger doesn't mean at all that the show is going to follow the same themes of 90210 or The OC.
You're absolutely right. However, given who'll be writing the episodes... that's why I think it'll be shallow and tacky.


I made an example in a similar post about the "Star Wars: Young Jedi Knights" series of novels by Kevin J. Anderson and Rebecca Moesta. They treated the stories told in those books like any other adult (age-wise, not pornographic content) novel, but focused them on characters who happened to be in their teens.
And if Kevin and Rebecca were hired to write SGU I bet they'd be able to inject some intelligence into the stories and treat the characters as rational beings who just happen to be on the young side rather than what I think we'll get with TPTB, which is a bunch of hormonally imbalanced twits in over their heads and turning to each other (and anything else within reach) for "comfort."


Surely we all remember the "younger cast" clip from "200."
Nope, I'd given up on the show by then.


If the producers can make that in pure jest, I HIGHLY doubt they would intend to try to make a show with that kind of content or tone in any kind of serious light.
You mean you HOPE it was in jest. ;)

Again, my issue isn't with the youngness of the characters, per se, it's the way I think they'll be interpreted by a bunch of worn-out, over-the-hill writers who have demonstrated time and again that they have a very juvenile sense of humor and, IMO, are utterly incapable of writing a remotely realistic adult relationship.

Get fresh young writers to go with the fresh young cast and maybe there'll be some hope, but as it stands I think SGU is shaping up to be a nightmare.

[StoyBoy720]

You're absolutely right. However, given who'll be writing the episodes... that's why I think it'll be shallow and tacky.

...

...rather than what I think we'll get with TPTB, which is a bunch of hormonally imbalanced twits in over their heads and turning to each other (and anything else within reach) for "comfort."

Based on what, exactly? There is no writing staff in place for Universe yet aside from Bad Wright and (I believe) Robert C. Cooper. Past that we don't even know who all of TPTB even are.

Look at Martin Gero. He was brought in as a new writer on Atlantis for an episode or two, and has become a mainstay and a provider of some of the show's best stories. Will that happen with Universe? Too early to tell.



Nope, I'd given up on the show by then.

The clip itself is quite YouTube-able. I don't know the rules for posting official content from YouTube on these forums so I won't provide a direct link but it's worth checking out, even aside from this context it's good for a chuckle.



... but as it stands I think SGU is shaping up to be a nightmare.

AS. IT. STANDS.

That's my whole point from my first post.

Universe has NOTHING yet. No legs to stand on. Right now it's just a logo, a pilot script, some studio space and a casting breakdown. No cast, no writing staff, to finished sets, no filmed content.

I'm not saying "love Universe blindly" by any means. More so, "keep an open mind until there is some actual content by which to base the show on."

[ShadowMaat]

Based on what, exactly? There is no writing staff in place for Universe yet aside from Bad Wright and (I believe) Robert C. Cooper. Past that we don't even know who all of TPTB even are.
Joe confirmed that he and Paul will be lending a hand in the writing department. I consider them the worst of the worst.


Will that happen with Universe? Too early to tell.
IN YOUR OPINION.


The clip itself is quite YouTube-able.
I stopped watching for a reason. I'm not going to subject myself to that crap if I don't absolutely have to, and this... debate certainly isn't enough motivation.


I'm not saying "love Universe blindly" by any means. More so, "keep an open mind until there is some actual content by which to base the show on."
The content that concerns me most is the primary writing staff. UNLESS they show evidence of having more new writers than old then as far as I'm concerned I know all I need to about SGU: it'll be the same tired writers writing the same tired stories. One or two new additions don't make for a fresh staff. For the most part they will be the same writers who, in my opinion, destroyed SG-1 and Atlantis. Sure, both shows were once good, but they wound up turning to complete crap thanks in no small part to the writers, so why should I keep an open mind about SGU and wait to see what the end result is when IN MY EXPERIENCE any "good" produced is fleeting and the rest will just be garbage piled on garbage?

If folks are looking forward to the new series then more power to 'em! I wish them all the best and hope that SGU is everything they dream it will be. But I am not going to tune in and I am not going to be bullied, harassed, ridiculed or cajoled into watching just because "so little is known right now" and I should "keep an open mind." I can be open-minded... just not when it comes to TPTB. ;) Experience has taught me not to bother.

[LostCityGuardian]

The end of Stargate???

The end of Stargate? Let's leave the emotion aside and look at the numbers. As of now (I can't give a time since our time zones are different), Gateworld has 36,488 members. I don't believe a majority of Gateworld members are so disillusioned with Stargate for whatever reason that they won't watch SGU, but to humour us let's say that 2/3 of Gateworld members are planning to avoid SGU. That works out to 24,326 members. Looking at the viewership rating for the most recent episode on the Gateworld main page (the Queen), 1,470,000 Americans tuned in. Remembering that Gateworld has an international membership, I think it's fair to add a few more million viewers worldwide who will watch the Queen. So in answer to the basic question, does some disillusionment among Gateworld members concern TPTB, MGM or SciFi? Don't be stupid. Of course not.

And before anyone says that Gateworld represents a greater malaise within Stargate fandom. It doesn't. Gateworld is polarised. Only people who like Stargate enough (or used to like it enough) to join a forum are represented here. Most fans won't have the blind devotion of some Gateworld members to Stargate. Most fans will also not have the anger towards and in some cases hatred of Stargate that other fans have. So, no. A little angst among a tiny group on Gateworld is not the end of Stargate.

[Trig]

I woudlnt say its the end of Stargate, its just being spread out for now.

Think, if there had been no Atlantis and no movies we'd just have the one show, as it stands theres SG1 movies, Atlantis about to end TV wise but movies in the pipeline, SGU and the SG-Whatever it is game.

IMHO that puts the franchise in a much better place to survive hardship atm.

[StoyBoy720]

ShadowMaat - Please don't think I was being bullying, harassing or ridiculing. If I came off that way towards you I apologize (Cajoling, I'm okay with :p). None of what I've said is meant to be personal.

While I don't have a huge issue with the current/previous shows' writing staffs, I could definitely concede to say that there should be some new blood injected into the writer's room. Hopefully it'll help to make things different enough, since the show;s premise gives the impression of constant change when jumping from galaxy to galaxy.

[g.o.d]

Stargate Universe has maybe only two outcomes from where I see it:

1. They get cancelled early on because the show lacks quality, depth, and the characters are cliche' or lame. So maybe around the first to third season.


they didn't cancel SGA for those reasons so they won't cancel SGU either. As long as it will make money, it will run.

[SGAtlantisP60]

Brad Wirght is trying to make the show like Star trek which would be awsome casue star trek had 5 series and 10 moives.he said that they were trying to make a new Sg1 and Atlantis movie every year which would be great.i do hope that universe is a hit becasue than that will ensure the sucess of the stargate franchise for years to come.plus stargate worlds is coming out soo that will also continue the franchise.

[Trig]

And out of the 5 series and 10 movies how many were a flop, how many times did we see the same story retold with different characters?

[luckygate]

In All I don't want Stargate to end... I'm (like many others) mad at the fact that SGA was canned. From what I've read about SGU its kinda iffy but then again its been stated that this was though out and not a rushed thing... hopfully the idea for this show is thought out, tweeket, tested and fit to replace the show and make a good addition to the Stargate universe... We as fans of stargate need to give it a chance and not give up on the creators of this great franchise... don't forget that they gave us 2 great shows before this one. so great we were mad to see them go.

[Sp!der]

Why can't they air stargate atlantis on another channel like they did with sg1?....after five seasons went from showtime to sci-fi....
...why not doing this with Atlantis, maybe with that we could have like two more seasons...its so dump that they cancel atlantis. SG1 and Atlantis worked fine at the same time, why not Universe and Atlantis at the Same time? :(

[Acolyte Of Bli'l'ab]

Everyone always seem to ignore my point iv made that the fact the new show has a bigger budget means it will have to justify that money being spent by ratings, and most likely more ratings than the previous shows. I think that if anything will be what kills it. Afterall, money is all that matters to them.

[Jaffa-master]

I hope the new sgu show will be as good as sg-1 and atlantis, and i hope we gotan other show in the Stargate family.

[Celesto]

well. i didnt read the former entries. i dont want to listen to the words "the end of stargate". i really hope that SGU will stay as long as SG1, but i dont believe it. So the films are the only left i think. at the end MGM and SCIFI.com are the responsible institutions. so lets make a lot of people watching SGU for good ratings. i want i want i want SG SG SG

[fwupow]

How many network execs does it take to make a show die?

Brainlessness display #1:
Sci-Fi cries poverty when it comes to the Stargate franchise but they continually throw money away on "one-off" made-for-TV movies that suck like a tornado.

Has anyone else tried to watch one of Sci-Fi channel's movies? I try, I really do, but I start weeping inside and getting nauseous. Before long I realize that I have a choice between changing channels or dialing 911.

Why does Sci-Fi waste money on these movies and then claim they can't afford good programming like SG-1?

Brainlessness display #2:
Also what's up with the random two-week breaks between episodes?

If I were a network exec, I'd make sure that my show was on every week at the exact same time like clockwork and if I didn't have a new episode to air, I'd show a repeat.

It doesn't take long to lose viewers (especially new ones) when they tune in to view their Stargate show and it's not there. They decide that the season must be over or the show got canceled and watch something else instead. When next week comes along they've forgotten about Stargate and have decided to pick up the next installment of whatever they watched the week before.

[McgillionFan]

I really hope it's not the end of Stargate. It is pure awsomeness. It is a real shame they cancelled Atlantis it was great. And i felt that the unending didn't feel like the end,i felt it could of countinued.I appreisate that they brought the movies out instead of just ending the tv series and that's your lot dot com.I hope that SGU will be really good. I don't mean to judge but i hope that it's going to be good and that it's better in action than it is in words if you get what i mean lol. Movies maybe all that's left off SG-1 and SGA :( but i would like to see some games based on SG-1 and SGA.

[EdenSG]

I have no idea whether or not SGU will fail or thrive, though I expect it will do very well initially as SG does have a large fan base and many will tune into to check it out. Whether or not fans and new viewers accept the show and continue to watch will be up to the creativity and capability behind SGU.

That said, I do think TPTB are taking at least two big risks with SGU – one with the direction of the show and secondly, with how they are introducing SGU.

Franchise/SGU Direction:

Comments by TPTB such as:
“reinvent the franchise”
“less sci fi mytholgy”
“retell the story for a new audience”
“We really don't want to be more of the same. It's going to build clearly off the existing franchise but with a cast that gives it a younger vibe.”
“… will re-invent the format in a whole new way.”
“breaking new ground in the relationships between mostly young and desperate explorers”

These comments along with the characters descriptions as well as the show’s premise -of the crew being stuck on a ship with no contact with Earth - in general seems a departure from many of the core elements that have kept SG a viable franchise. Is it a far enough departure to turn a lot of fans away? To early to tell. However for me, these comments and early information on the show’s premise do not excite me but rather disappoint me. I am finding the elements that I truly love about SG, at least from what we know up to this point, will be missing from SGU.


Introducing SGU:
Long running franchises are generally built around a core group of loyal fans. If you alienate a large enough group of those fans you may have difficulties as the franchise continues – Star Trek saw some of this. Is this the case with SGU? Who knows, time will tell. Though, I do understand the need from a business point of view for MGM and Sci Fi to grow the base fan group. I think, especially in these current times it is important for any franchise to continue. The trick is to grow the base fan group while maintaining as much support as possible from the existing fan groups. Canceling a show while it still is doing well so you can start replace it with a newer, younger untried version does not add up to me. If the franchise thinks they can re-invent the show and still please all the exisitng fans while attracting a whole new fanbase seems a bit of overstretching to me - can they truly please everyone?.

I would have thought it makes more sense to keep Stargate Atlantis on the air for another season and use it as a springboard to allow fans to transition from the current popular series to the new show. Much of the initial success of Stargate Atlantis was attributed to Stargate SG1 being an anchor for it when it was first introduced. Also, running the two series concurrently kept the fan base satisfied allowing fans to become comfortable with and develop a loyalty to Atlantis before SG1 was cancelled. It makes more sense to me to follow this successful formula with the next phase of the franchise.

Movies? I know TPTB have proudly promised the fans who are sorry to see SGA cancelled "movies" – but I really don’t hold out much hope for many movies. They will become harder to do as the stars will move onto other projects and be less available, they will be more expensive so the pressure to do well will be greater. Only one more SG-1 movie and only one SGA movie have been okayed. Just one. In my mind this is not a shining endorsement of more movies to come. I rather got the impression that TPTB have used the promise of many movies as a way to placate fans – to string us along to keep us interested enough to support the franchise. One movie a year does not even come close to what a full season of episodes could offer.


Personally I am disappointed with how TPTB have treated SGA but even more so by how they have treated loyal fans as evidenced by some recent comments by TPTB. I dislike the fact that TPTB just assume that all fans will fall in line and watch anything that is SG – as Dave Howe put it “get our fix.” Yeah, some fans fall into that category but others don’t. In general I give fans more credit as I think fans will make up their own minds. For me, I am quite dissatisfied with the direction the franchise has gone and the decisions TPTB have made.

It seems to me that TPTB have thrown all their eggs in the SGU basket. If SGU fails, there will nothing to fall back on – this is actually truer for Sci fi than MGM. MGM can continue to do direct to DVD movies but Sci Fi will be without a current series. I don’t expect the franchise will die if SGU is not successful but it would be a setback for both MGM and Sci Fi.

[Finger13]

How many network execs does it take to make a show die?

Brainlessness display #1:
Sci-Fi cries poverty when it comes to the Stargate franchise but they continually throw money away on "one-off" made-for-TV movies that suck like a tornado.

Has anyone else tried to watch one of Sci-Fi channel's movies? I try, I really do, but I start weeping inside and getting nauseous. Before long I realize that I have a choice between changing channels or dialing 911.

Why does Sci-Fi waste money on these movies and then claim they can't afford good programming like SG-1?

Brainlessness display #2:
Also what's up with the random two-week breaks between episodes?

If I were a network exec, I'd make sure that my show was on every week at the exact same time like clockwork and if I didn't have a new episode to air, I'd show a repeat.

It doesn't take long to lose viewers (especially new ones) when they tune in to view their Stargate show and it's not there. They decide that the season must be over or the show got canceled and watch something else instead. When next week comes along they've forgotten about Stargate and have decided to pick up the next installment of whatever they watched the week before.

They usually aren't random... This week was delayed because of Halloween being on a Friday, the last time we because of the mid-season cliff hanger, and prior to that I can't remember, but some holiday fell on Atlantis' time slot.

I agree with your previous point though, they burn through money on meaningless moviesinstead of strategically spending it. Then again, they do need content somehow. One or two shows, even if they are amazing, can't hold up a network by airing one new episode a week.

As for the haters in here, I don't think disillusioned fans are really worth taking seriously. Neither are the die-hard fans who will watch anything that's branded "Stargate".

But if people hate SGU so much because of unforeseeable factors like what the writing staff will come up with, or how the series will play out before we've even seen a teaser, or pictures of the cast. It's like people who say that BSG sucks because it's boring, there are millions of fans who say otherwise. Different shows appeal to different people.

But please, hiring new writers and producers is more dangerous than this new series is.

<snip>

But I guess it doesn't matter as long as they don't try to mislead other people into avoiding the series as well. Having your own opinion is fine and well, but I hope people aren't trying to sway others into boycotting the show, because that's just retarded.

[EdenSG]

In light of Rob Cooper’s recent statements and after re-reading some other comments, it sounds like to me that Stargate may have already ended -– or at least the Stargate that I know and love.

Since SGU was first announced the comments from TPTB have been cryptic or better yet foreshadowing the direction they want to go. It seems SGU may be a “re-invented” Stargate that is looking for a new, younger, more “mainstream” audience.

“…let us continue the story and figure out how to retell it for a new audience every few years.”
“…introduce the franchise to a new audience”
“…a space opera that serves the audience that's really into space operas”
“…a little more character-based, a little less rooted in a sci-fi mythology”
“… will re-invent the format in a whole new way.”
“breaking new ground in the relationships between mostly young and desperate explorers”

Cooper’s recent comments "It says Stargate in the title, but it’s also going to be something that is very different in tone," just seem to confirm this.

Will the new SGU be terrible? Will it be the end of the franchise? I have no idea. It could run one year or ten years. All I know is that from everything I have heard it sounds less and less like Stargate.

[jenks]

In light of Rob Cooper’s recent statements and after re-reading some other comments, it sounds like to me that Stargate may have already ended -– or at least the Stargate that I know and love.

Since SGU was first announced the comments from TPTB have been cryptic or better yet foreshadowing the direction they want to go. It seems SGU may be a “re-invented” Stargate that is looking for a new, younger, more “mainstream” audience.

“…let us continue the story and figure out how to retell it for a new audience every few years.”
“…introduce the franchise to a new audience”
“…a space opera that serves the audience that's really into space operas”
“…a little more character-based, a little less rooted in a sci-fi mythology”
“… will re-invent the format in a whole new way.”
“breaking new ground in the relationships between mostly young and desperate explorers”

Cooper’s recent comments "It says Stargate in the title, but it’s also going to be something that is very different in tone," just seem to confirm this.

Will the new SGU be terrible? Will it be the end of the franchise? I have no idea. It could run one year or ten years. All I know is that from everything I have heard it sounds less and less like Stargate.

"Brad and Robert are very eager to keep the action and adventure and the sense of humor [in Stargate Universe]. But I think there's an opportunity to maybe inject a bit more dramatic intensity into the series. But that's obviously a conversation for them as they start to script and move into development."

"One of the things that we love about Stargate is that it's us. It's our military. It's our scientists. It's our people. And we're going out into the galaxy and the universe to discover all the wonders that are out there, and dealing with our own limitations versus things that are far more advanced to us. That's identifiable. It's what we deal with every day in terms of medicine and science and astrophysics. We're just babies. We would always want to maintain that in anything that was Stargate-related.

"Well, you just hit the nail on the head because it's got to be both. It has to feel like Stargate and it has to feel new. And that's the tightrope, that's the balance you have to maintain, and that's the challenge. To put it in the simplest terms, if we had ever just done SG-2 as a series it would never have worked. It's not the C.S.I. model. And it's frankly because of the heroes that our team is.

Sounds like Stargate to me.

[EdenSG]

"Brad and Robert are very eager to keep the action and adventure and the sense of humor [in Stargate Universe]. But I think there's an opportunity to maybe inject a bit more dramatic intensity into the series. But that's obviously a conversation for them as they start to script and move into development."

"One of the things that we love about Stargate is that it's us. It's our military. It's our scientists. It's our people. And we're going out into the galaxy and the universe to discover all the wonders that are out there, and dealing with our own limitations versus things that are far more advanced to us. That's identifiable. It's what we deal with every day in terms of medicine and science and astrophysics. We're just babies. We would always want to maintain that in anything that was Stargate-related.

"Well, you just hit the nail on the head because it's got to be both. It has to feel like Stargate and it has to feel new. And that's the tightrope, that's the balance you have to maintain, and that's the challenge. To put it in the simplest terms, if we had ever just done SG-2 as a series it would never have worked. It's not the C.S.I. model. And it's frankly because of the heroes that our team is.

Sounds like Stargate to me.

Yes, I have read those comments too.

And for me it creates an even bigger concern.

How do you stay true to Stargate yet develop a program for a more mainstream, younger audience?

How do you say on one hand it will have the action and adventure of SG and yet be more character focused and intimate in its character approaches?

How do still be SG when SciFi execs keep saying they see SGU as the successor to BSG and say they envision more drama, a more space opera like show?

How do you be SG that is so rich in mythology and background and say that the SGU will be entrenched in that mythology but will also be for a new audience that does not know the difference between an Ancient and an Alteran?

How do you still be SG when SG has always been so strongly connected to Earth, the resources of Earth, the defense of Earth and the SGC & military yet this show takes place on a space ship with no contact with Earth?

How do you be SG when the latest statement by one of its creators and writers says that it has SG in the title but it will be different?

To me TPTB are constantly giving mixed signals about the show. And I have said it before, it sounds like they are trying to develop and write a show that will appease SG fans while trying to appeal to a mainstream, younger audience.

So how can you be all things to all people?
I think this concept is extremely difficult and challenging to do; and it makes me think the show has little focus or maybe more aptly put, too many focuses.

When you try to be everything to everyone you usually end up with a washed down mediocre product that has little substance, little appeal and holds little interest for the long run. This is my fear for SGU.

[jenks]

Yes, I have read those comments too.

And for me it creates an even bigger concern.

How do you stay true to Stargate yet develop a program for a more mainstream, younger audience?

How do you say on one hand it will have the action and adventure of SG and yet be more character focused and intimate in its character approaches?

How do still be SG when SciFi execs keep saying they see SGU as the successor to BSG and say they envision more drama, a more space opera like show?

How do you be SG that is so rich in mythology and background and say that the SGU will be entrenched in that mythology but will also be for a new audience that does not know the difference between an Ancient and an Alteran?

How do you still be SG when SG has always been so strongly connected to Earth, the resources of Earth, the defense of Earth and the SGC & military yet this show takes place on a space ship with no contact with Earth?

How do you be SG when the latest statement by one of its creators and writers says that it has SG in the title but it will be different?

To me TPTB are constantly giving mixed signals about the show. And I have said it before, it sounds like they are trying to develop and write a show that will appease SG fans while trying to appeal to a mainstream, younger audience.

So how can you be all things to all people?
I think this concept is extremely difficult and challenging to do; and it makes me think the show has little focus or maybe more aptly put, too many focuses.

When you try to be everything to everyone you usually end up with a washed down mediocre product that has little substance, little appeal and holds little interest for the long run. This is my fear for SGU.

I don't see why you think they are trying to be all things to all people though, as far as I can tell they haven't said anything of the sort. They want it to be more mainstream with more character drama, how do either of those things conflict with what makes Stargate what it is?

[EdenSG]

I don't see why you think they are trying to be all things to all people though, as far as I can tell they haven't said anything of the sort. They want it to be more mainstream with more character drama, how do either of those things conflict with what makes Stargate what it is?

I think I answered most of that question in my post that you quote.
And I hope, at least for all the fans that have such high expectations for the new SG show, I am wrong, but time will tell.

From my perspective, prior to SGU, SG was always described as an action/adventure show that was story driven. JM has said story driven many times in his blog. Trying to appeal to a younger, more mainstream audience isn’t bad, being a character driven show isn’t bad, but when comment after comment from TPTB start out along the lines; SG fans will love it, it will have all the same elements as SG BUT we will aim it for a different audience, we will reinvent it, we will retell the story in a different way, it will have a different tone, etc… you have to wonder what is going on.

What I see are statements that are contradictory.
If TPTB want to reinvent the franchise and take it in a new direction, fine I could understand that – but be up front and tell me. Don’t tell me it will be the same and then say BUT and tell me how it will be different. Don’t tell me as a SG fan I will love it BUT then tell me it is geared for younger new fans to the franchise.

All these comments remind me of a typical political campaign, promise everything to everyone just to get their vote or in this case approval but then when the time comes to deliver everything you promised you can’t. Perhaps TPTB can deliver on all its promises and deliver a show that is geared for and appeal to both long time SG fans and a new younger audience but to quote my last post: “I think this concept is extremely difficult and challenging to do; and it makes me think the show has little focus or maybe more aptly put, too many focuses.” Usually when you are trying to develop a new series you have a certain audience and demographic in mind, then design the show for that audience.

I also see where TPTB from Sci Fi have their own vision for the series and will likely have a big say in how it is developed. And based on many of the decisions SciFi has made with prior new series this is very scary. On the day SGU was announced Howe said:

http://www.multichannel.com/article/CA6589541.html?q=Stargate+Universe
The intention here is to make this one skew young and give it a contemporary vibe,” Howe told Multichannel News Friday.
He said the new series presents a chance to take some new creative turns with the franchise. “As a network, obviously we look at Battlestar Galactica, that’s set the standard in terms of tense character drama. Stargate does not have the intensity of a Battlestar Galactica. But it may well be somewhere in between. Brad and Robert are very eager to keep the action and adventure and the sense of humor [in Stargate Universe]. But I think there's an opportunity to maybe inject a bit more dramatic intensity into the series. But that's obviously a conversation for them as they start to script and move into development."

And just recently it was reported:

http://www.scifi.com/scifiwire/index.php?category=2&id=61195

We're told that work on the script started after a major creative meeting last month between SCI FI executives and representatives from the show's producer, MGM, where the two companies discussed and agreed on the overall creative direction of the show.

--We learned this week that producers have already pitched some initial episode ideas and that preliminary concept art was Fed-Exed from MGM offices in Vancouver, Canada, to SCI FI's development team in Los Angeles.

--MGM and SCI FI have already begun batting around casting ideas for Universe, although they haven't shared information about what the roles will be or which actors are being considered


Sorry, but the reports so far about SGU have inspired little confidence and much confusion for me over the direction it is going.

[senois]

I think in some of the plot lines so far,A ship with a locked in nav cpu and a bunch of newbes with no experence sent to check it out. hummm I'm sure Carter or Mckay would have something to say about that.
When Atlantis started we knew some of the charactors from the SG1 series and it worked,after all we were all glad to see Rodney get a job where he got all the attention.I am looking foward to seening SGU I just hope it does not mean the end of the rest of the SG shows for good.

[Blistna]

Stargate Universe has maybe only two outcomes from where I see it:

1. They get cancelled early on because the show lacks quality, depth, and the characters are cliche' or lame. So maybe around the first to third season.

2. They last around five to seven seasons because it appeals to a large and unintelligent mainstream. So the show may be doing really badly in our eyes but ironically Scifi & MGM only cancel a show when it's doing good, not when it's doing bad.

After SGU is cancelled there will likely never be any Stargate shows for sometime do to it's recent failure. Likewise, it would a be a long time for a successful remake of the series.

Third possibly: It blows most SG1/SGA fans minds, attracts new viewers, and has the highest ratings in Sci Fi's history. ;-) Don't be so bleak, you'll never know whats going to happen.

(and that wasn't a command, more of a suggestion; don't want a bunch of ppl saying stuff where there is no need)

[Laura Dove]

Third possibly: It blows most SG1/SGA fans minds, attracts new viewers, and has the highest ratings in Sci Fi's history. ;-) Don't be so bleak, you'll never know whats going to happen.

It might, but as for me, it's very unlikely that SGU blows my mind. What attracted me to SGA was precisely that the characters were not average: While unprepared for what was happening to them, they were displaying uncommon intelligence, astuteness, courage and strength (even to the point of unrealism, yes). They were explorers at core, facing discoveries and dangers grander than their own fates -- and succeeding. Oh, and I loved the story arcs. The eventuality of some known foe to pop up at the most unexpected time, and the feeling that, by the end of an episode, the global situation had evolved since the beginning of said episode.

But for SGU, we were promised mediocre characters we are supposed to relate to. The problem is I care for characters that inspire me, not for characters that disappoint me. I really doubt I can be interested in a bunch of incompetent people supposed to be physically attractive for those 20 years younger than me. And there's the fact that the Destiny's course is supposed to be unmodifiable. Unless it moves very, very slowly, or TPTB conveniently abandon the idea after a while, it means all we'll have at best is a collection of standalones, 2, 3 or maybe 4-parters at best. No arc stretching over several seasons, no unexpected return of an old familiar face or plot. :(

[bluealien]

Yes, I have read those comments too.

And for me it creates an even bigger concern.

How do you stay true to Stargate yet develop a program for a more mainstream, younger audience?

How do you say on one hand it will have the action and adventure of SG and yet be more character focused and intimate in its character approaches?

How do still be SG when SciFi execs keep saying they see SGU as the successor to BSG and say they envision more drama, a more space opera like show?

How do you be SG that is so rich in mythology and background and say that the SGU will be entrenched in that mythology but will also be for a new audience that does not know the difference between an Ancient and an Alteran?

How do you still be SG when SG has always been so strongly connected to Earth, the resources of Earth, the defense of Earth and the SGC & military yet this show takes place on a space ship with no contact with Earth?

How do you be SG when the latest statement by one of its creators and writers says that it has SG in the title but it will be different?

To me TPTB are constantly giving mixed signals about the show. And I have said it before, it sounds like they are trying to develop and write a show that will appease SG fans while trying to appeal to a mainstream, younger audience.

So how can you be all things to all people?
I think this concept is extremely difficult and challenging to do; and it makes me think the show has little focus or maybe more aptly put, too many focuses.

When you try to be everything to everyone you usually end up with a washed down mediocre product that has little substance, little appeal and holds little interest for the long run. This is my fear for SGU


Well that's exactly what they did to SGA.... they sucked the life out of it and failed to give any depth to the characters. In season 5 they flited from one character to another and didn't really do justice to any of them. We got mostly shallow stories with space battles but rarely any substance. So I just roll my eyes when the PTB use the word substance, they don't know what it means. What makes them think they can do any better with their new shiney show when they couldn't even handle the one they had. Why didnt they just try and improve the show they already had and implement all their so called wonderful ideas . SGA fans have been screaming for more character development for years but it always fell on deaf ears.

They think kids in space, hot babes and big explosions is Stargate, then they really are looking for a totally new audience, because this is not Stargate for me, and I don't think the PTB have a clue anymore as to what the Stargate Francise is all about.