Radek Zelenka - Barely there Czech (and so is Woolsey!)

[FallenAngelII]

Anyone else miffed at how Radek's been demoted to a "barely there" character? I mean, I knew it would happen, but I'm still miffed.

Yes, yes, he's still there and makes occasional appearances and stuff, but when he actually shows up, he usually doesn't actually do anything.

Sometimes, he might actually do something important but even then his on-screen time is short and he doesn't do much. He just kinda floats by and you forget he even exists after a while.

When Radek's actually there nowadays, he's either a wall-flower, a background set piece or for a (brief) comic interactions with Rodney. And what's up with Richard (Woolsey)?

Last season, Sam came on as leader and took over the reigns and figured quite prominently. She even went off-world on her first day or so on the base and did so again a few times. She went around and did things.

Then Richard shows up to take the leadership in a new direction and is demoted to... barely there status. What gives?! I mean, there were a few episodes in there with a little actual character development but it seems he mostly just appears to be the token expedition leader to make a few decisions and stuff nowadays.

It's good to know that the PtBs have their little Mary Sues (Sam and now Jennifer) who get much more screen time and character development than other characters in the same position. It's also good to know that they're willing to demote several beloved and veteran characters to "Barely there" status to accommodate this.

So far this season, Jennifer's miraculously enough gotten more character development than Carson got during his first two or so years on Atlantis. Meanwhile, Lorne, Radek and Woolsey have all become "Barely theres", no doubt to allow for more Jennifer Keller-time.

NOTE: Unless it wasn't apparent, when I say "Barely there", I also mean that even if someone is featured semi-frequently, they don't actually get to do much, so they're barely there, anyway since when they're actually there, they're just there, kinda like token appearances.

[Jumper_One]

It's good to know that the PtBs have their little Mary Sues (Sam

and now Jennifer)

hahaha that's ridiculous, Keller a Mary Sue?

who get much more screen time and character development than other characters in the same position. It's also good to know that they're willing to demote several beloved and veteran characters to "Barely there" status to accommodate this.

Sam got more more screen time and character development than Weir and Woolsey? um...

also

GW: The last person we saw in a hospital gown was Beckett.

DN: I don't know ... I'm not supposed to give it away. Another good one was "Remnants," the Joe Mallozzi script. We just finished that one also. Bits and pieces of it last week. Yeah, good ones. Pretty good for the back half. I think I've counted, I've got 11 episodes this year. Pretty much the Zelenka average.

GW: Yeah. It was 11 in Season Four, I think it was 11 in Season Four, but one year you got 12 or 13. Show's been really good to you.

DN: It has.

http://www.gateworld.net/interviews/...of_radek.shtml

[FallenAngelII]

hahaha that's ridiculous, Keller a Mary Sue?

Laugh all you want, it's pretty much what Jennifer's become lately. She's not the perfect character, but she's obviously favored.

Sam got more more screen time and character development than Weir and Woolsey? um...

I'm sorry, what kind of character development did we get for Elizabeth during 3 years again? And Woolsey got, like, 2 episodes of character development where he just learned to be less bureaucratic and then he became a "barely there" character.

also

http://www.gateworld.net/interviews/...of_radek.shtml

Number of episodes does not a good character representation make. Read my description on why Radek is "barely there".

[elliecat]

I agree, not enough Radek for my liking either this season! I miss Radek, I mean this time last year we had Adrift already, what a great episode for him. This season I can only remember him being in The Seed and weren't his scenes cut in The Shrine? That was an episode he really should have been in imo.

Haven't seen any banter with Rodney either (I haven't seen all the episodes yet, but none in the ones I have seen) and I really love those little scenes.

Imo it's all about Keller this season and almost everything else is forgotten, shiny new toy to play with for the writers so everyone else is boring to them now after 4 years. (this is all MY OPINION btw! )

So, yep, i'm miffed too!!

[chensuu]

Now that you mention it, I have to admit I was kind of disappointed there was no scene between Zelenka and McKay in The Shrine.

Yeah, I understand there were reasons, but still, it was noticeable.

[SGFerrit]

Sorry, you may be miffed that Zalenka hasn't had much screentime, but why take potshots at Sam? Her character got hardly any meaningful development last year, and even though she was base commander they didn't even mention her in the numerous episodes she wasn't in. I liked Sam on Atlantis, but they should have done a lot more with her, and your assumption that she has been developed more than Weir or Woolsey has got me baffled. Woolsey (who will be in the same number of episodes as Sam was last year) has already grown as a character more than carter did throughout the entire season. I don't know whether they felt they couldn't develop and change her much because they didn't want to p*ss off fans or whether they simply couldn't be bothered to develop or change the character, but the fact is they didn't, for one reason or another.

I don't know if you hate Sam or whatever but there was no need to use her in your argument, it seems you just wanted a chance to insult the character. Why not use John or Rodney, who are NEVER 'barely there'. Because you can't insult them by calling them Mary Sues?

And you know there is a complaints and misgivings thread for season 5. I don't know why you constantly feel the need to post loads of threads doing exactly that.

[g.o.d]

they need more screentime for Keller

[FallenAngelII]

Sorry, you may be miffed that Zalenka hasn't had much screentime, but why take potshots at Sam? Her character got hardly any meaningful development last year, and even though she was base commander they didn't even mention her in the numerous episodes she wasn't in. I liked Sam on Atlantis, but they should have done a lot more with her, and your assumption that she has been developed more than Weir or Woolsey has got me baffled. Woolsey (who will be in the same number of episodes as Sam was last year) has already grown as a character more than carter did throughout the entire season. I don't know whether they felt they couldn't develop and change her much because they didn't want to p*ss off fans or whether they simply couldn't be bothered to develop or change the character, but the fact is they didn't, for one reason or another.

What has Woolsey gotten, really? He's become... less bureaucratic. Yay him. That's pretty much it, now he's barely there.

When Sam was barely there, she was at least there. She got to be in the thick, she got to make decisions, she got screen time. Woolsey is literally barely there. He's now just a token base commander present at meetings.

And compare Sam's 1 year with Elizabeth's 1 year.

Why not use John or Rodney, who are NEVER 'barely there'. Because you can't insult them by calling them Mary Sues?

John is the leading character of SGA (despite it supposedly being an ensemble show). Rodney is apparently 2nd fiddle. Rodney, however, is less Mary Sueish than John who does right even when he's wrong.

The point of using Sam and Jennifer as examples is because they're characters who are new (Sam now gone). They were just thrown in there and randomly got more screen time and character development than a slew of veteran characters, who subsequently either disappeared altogether or got demoted to "barely there" status.

John and Rodney at least have been there from the beginning. It's always been a John & Rodney + others show. But at least back then, there were others. Jennifer randomly jumped in, went from recurring to starring and now she's getting so much screen time and character development it's ridiculous.

All the while, Lorne, Zelenka and Woolsey (who's supposedly a starring character as well) are all sidelined and "barely there"'d. I mean, have they learned nothing from Elizabeth?! A base commander who's only there as the token base leader in scenes which require their presence is not good writing.

And you know there is a complaints and misgivings thread for season 5. I don't know why you constantly feel the need to post loads of threads doing exactly that.

Yes, because obviously anything that can be characterized as complaints or misgivings should be limited to that thread alone. I mean, why have meaningful discussion about meaningful topics if they are in any way negative?

[Jumper_One]

Laugh all you want, it's pretty much what Jennifer's become lately. She's not the perfect character, but she's obviously favored.

I don't think so

Aqualegia writes: “I heartily dislike Keller - I really can’t get past the dithering and the constant whiny voice…”

Answer: Well, see, it’s because certain fans are so vocal about their dislike for the character that we’re really making a concerted effort to redeem the character in their eyes. If everybody had liked her, then we probably would have redirected our efforts elsewhere. Like, say, Sheppard for instance.

http://josephmallozzi.wordpress.com/...se-of-the-day/

I'm sorry, what kind of character development did we get for Elizabeth during 3 years again?

a lot more than we got for Sam during s4 and Woolsey in s5 (so far)

And Woolsey got, like, 2 episodes of character development where he just learned to be less bureaucratic and then he became a "barely there" character.

actually four eps: The Seed, BT, GitM and The Shrine

Number of episodes does not a good character representation make. Read my description on why Radek is "barely there".

I know however at least DN seems to disagree

GW: [...] Show's been really good to you.

DN: It has.

http://www.gateworld.net/interviews/...of_radek.shtml

What has Woolsey gotten, really? He's become... less bureaucratic. Yay him. That's pretty much it, now he's barely there.

When Sam was barely there, she was at least there. She got to be in the thick, she got to make decisions, she got screen time. Woolsey is literally barely there. He's now just a token base commander present at meetings.

Woolsey didn't appear in Whispers, The Queen and Tracker. so? he's only in 14 eps

And compare Sam's 1 year with Elizabeth's 1 year.

you mean we should compare Sam's character development during s1-7 with Weir's throughout s1? or do you mean s1 of SG-1 and Atlantis? if so, why? the Weir character was supposed to be like Hammond, she wasn't part of the team like Sam in SG-1 so naturally TPTB didn't focus as much on this character

John is the leading character of SGA (despite it supposedly being an ensemble show). Rodney is apparently 2nd fiddle. Rodney, however, is less Mary Sueish than John who does right even when he's wrong.

The point of using Sam and Jennifer as examples is because they're characters who are new (Sam now gone). They were just thrown in there and randomly got more screen time and character development than a slew of veteran characters, who subsequently either disappeared altogether or got demoted to "barely there" status.

who are you talking about?

John and Rodney at least have been there from the beginning. It's always been a John & Rodney + others show. But at least back then, there were others. Jennifer randomly jumped in, went from recurring to starring

no she went from recurring to regular, not starring

and now she's getting so much screen time and character development it's ridiculous.

why? because you can't stand the character?

All the while, Lorne, Zelenka and Woolsey (who's supposedly a starring character as well) are all sidelined and "barely there"'d. I mean, have they learned nothing from Elizabeth?! A base commander who's only there as the token base leader in scenes which require their presence is not good writing.

how so?

Yes, because obviously anything that can be characterized as complaints or misgivings should be limited to that thread alone. I mean, why have meaningful discussion about meaningful topics if they are in any way negative?

yup that's why the thread's called Complaints and Misgivings

[Reiko]

Fabulous post.

Anyone else miffed at how Radek's been demoted to a "barely there" character? I mean, I knew it would happen, but I'm still miffed.

Yep, I'm totally with you here, and I too was expecting him to be reduced even more in season five than what I saw of season four, but never to this level. You're right; he's just there. I believe the term you used - 'floating' - aptly describes his situation. Blink, and you might miss him before he's whisked away again.

While I disagree with your assessment on Sam (I thought she was rather underused, and this is coming from someone who wasn't happy with her replacing Weir), your thoughts about Keller are spot-on. She's the obviously PtB's favourite; the golden child, the preferable sister, the quintessinal Mary Sue, the writer's trophy. though I wouldn't call it "development" so much as "eating screentime", she has been (attempted) to get more character development than anybody (some of it that is just plain absurd,) push others out of the picture, and quite honestly, become the most controversial recurring/regular character on Atlantis.

[Jumper_One]

Yep, I'm totally with you here, and I too was expecting him to be reduced even more in season five than what I saw of season four, but never to this level. You're right; he's just there. I believe the term you used - 'floating' - aptly describes his situation. Blink, and you might miss him before he's whisked away again.

you've only seen 9 eps

[FallenAngelII]

I don't think so

http://josephmallozzi.wordpress.com/...se-of-the-day/

So their way of "redeeming" her it to have her barge in, become a regular and be, like, the 3rd largest starring character in the show (because insofar, she pretty much is)? Their idea of redemption for those who didn't like her is to shove her down our throats and jam so much character development in there as possible?

Great plan.

a lot more than we got for Sam during s4 and Woolsey in s5 (so far)

O RLY? Name these things. Name them now.

actually four eps: The Seed, BT, GitM and The Shrine

Which was all pretty much the same. "Oh, you have to learn to not be to tight with regulations!" "Hmm... well... umm... ok, fine."... that's pretty much it. And it was over within minutes each time.

I know however at least DN seems to disagree

They always say things like that. When did you last see anyone on Stargate complain?

Woolsey didn't appear in Whispers, The Queen and Tracker. so? he's only in 14 eps

What part of "Number of episodes is inconsequential, it's what their time on-screen (or quite possibly even off) is spent on that matters" was too Canadian French for you to understand? I've said it, like, three times in this thread alone now.

Woolsey is a barely there character now. Whenever he appears, it's just for mission debriefings or mission briefings or "Welcome back!" scenes and that's pretty much it.

you mean we should compare Sam's character development during s1-7 with Weir's throughout s1? or do you mean s1 of SG-1 and Atlantis? if so, why? the Weir character was supposed to be like Hammond, she wasn't part of the team like Sam in SG-1 so naturally TPTB didn't focus as much on this character

Sam wasn't "on the team" either! She was just the base commander. Sure, she randomly went off-world sometimes, but so did Elizabeth. But the argument here is that Sam got a lot more character development shoe-horned in during her 14 episodes than Elizabeth during her entire 1st year. I could probably raise the stakes to seasons 1-2 (Elizabeth) vs. Sam's 1 season and it'd be pretty even.

who are you talking about?

Oh, Ronon for one (Ronon is still wall-flowerish a lot of the time). Lorne (who's pretty much gone nowadays), Chuck (also randomly missing), Radek (barely there), Woolsey (barely there).

Aside from Woolsey, the rest are only recurring, but they are veteran characters nonetheless.

no she went from recurring to regular, not starring

I was under the assumption than when it comes to TV, "Starring role" is equivalent to "Regular". Forgive me if I was wrong.

why? because you can't stand the character?

No, because she's getting it at the blatant expense of others. It's become the John + Rodney + Jennifer + a little bit of Ronon and Teyla show. The rest are just randomly missing most of the time. At least last season, we still got a little random Lorne, Radek and Sam.

And Jennifer wasn't even liked by the fans. Their solution is to dramatically increase her screen time and character development at the expense of others? Great solution.

how so?

Because he's supposedly a regular. They went through 3 years of Elizabeth and then went "Oh, we can't write her well, she's auf'd!". And now they're handling Richard even worse.

And he's a regular. Yet he's "barely there".

yup that's why the thread's called Complaints and Misgivings

And quite miraculously, not a single one of my threads have been shut down or merged with it by the mods, who obviously disagree with you.

While I disagree with your assessment on Sam (I thought she was rather underused, and this is coming from someone who wasn't happy with her replacing Weir), your thoughts about Keller are spot-on.

I was a bit too harsh on Sam. She just got more screen time and character development than a lot of other characters and she got random BS stuff like randomly going off-world sometimes when she wasn't even needed just to shoe-horn in some action sequences.

you've only seen 9 eps

9 episodes out of 20. Almost half the season has passed and he's blatantly "barely there". Pray tell, is his presence going to magically explode during the back half of the season?

Will his screen-time be spent doing actually important stuff? Why are we so wrong to complain about what we've seen so far on the off-chance that it might change for the latter half of the season? I mean, are you psychic? Have you seen it?

[bluealien]

Radek isn't the only one to suffer the "barely there" syndrome, Teyla has suffered badly this season from it and so has Ronon.

But it's all about Keller this season. She is clocking up as much screentime as Sheppard or will have by the end of the season. After Brain Child, Identity and Infection she will most likely have more screentime than anyone else.

It's very disappointing particulary with this being the LAST season. The ptb can't be bothered to develop anyone else except Keller. If this continues I don't think I will even be bothered watching the movies..

[Laura Dove]

While I disagree about Woolsey (I mean, unlike the others, I can remember his interventions without having to make an effort and AFAIK, he'll have a significant presence in several upcoming episodes), I completely agree with your main point. Lorne and Zelenka are the most blatantly forgotten, but Teyla is a lot too. Even McKay seems underused: Despite good screen time and character development, he doesn't seem to be able any more to achieve technical feats... or blunders. And let's forget the team as a team: The only episode I remember great team action in season 5 was "The Daedalus Variations".

And now they're digging out

Spoiler:

Daniel Jackson

for tonight episode and its follow-up, instead of using Zelenka.

[fumblesmcstupid]

Elizabeth was in pretty much all of season 1-3. She might have been a " why are doing this?" part, but she was there.

Amanda Tapping was only contracted to be in 14 episodes. I think that if she had just been brought over and was in say 19 episodes it would have made more sense.

Radek poor Radek. The Last Man was just pathetic you blink and you miss him. GITM was the most we had seen of him in a while. The Shrine.... what a waste to have him just walk down the stairs (whooppeee)

Lorn, uh what WAS the last episode with him? (duh! DV)

I keep saying Teyla who?

Ronon is now the rival of Rodney for Keller's affections.

Joe and David are the only ones that have been in EVERY episode, even if it is just for a for a minuet.

I think season 3 had the most use of all the characters (B.K.) (before Keller) in the most episodes like the TAO, Ark, Echoes, and Sunday to name a few.

Since the beginning of season 4 the division of the cast was just starting.

With Rachel's pregnancy they had to change the whole Rodney and Katie Pregnancy thing to make room for Teyla's. So yeah Teyla was hardly in in the last part of the season due to being kidnapped. Ronon was not in Harmony (story line..no gene) or Trio (?)

Well from spoilers I know Radek is in

Spoiler:

Vegas.

Richard Woolsey should be in almost every episode as well even if it is the "Why are we doing this?" part.

I know I forgot Chuck! Was he in the Shrine?

It sucks knowing that our re- occurring characters are being slowly taken down to bit parts oops! you miss them. *sigh*

I know I am all all over the place. I haven't been to sleep yet! (my bad)