So... WHICH bit of SGU is making YOU inclined to hate it?

[Flyboy]

There are a variety of reasons I'm dubious about SGU.

The core one for me is my worry about the shift in identity of what is Stargate as a show, but I've discussed THAT to death. ;)

Failing that, I think what worries me most about this premise, out of the tangible info we've been given, is the fact that it's on a ship. The idea of them being stuck at the farest regions of the universe could lead to awe inspiring scenes, the actual SGU logo with the nebula is evident of this. There could be some ASTONISHING sights, particularly if we ever see the absolutely edge of the universe. And I don't mind a present day contingient not being able to contact earth again.

But WHY a ship? Why make it ship based? Why space battles? Why can't they just be stranded on another planet out there? It's the ship, at the heart of it, the ship and the ship alone which is at the root my misgivings of SGU.

What about you guys?


Feel free to discuss or contribute your own personal grievences.


(And for the record, this isn't an "Anti" thread)

[ShadowMaat]

Yeah, beyond the whole youth-oriented sex "relationship" based premise of the show, which I also distrust, I'm not liking the ship aspect, either. I think Stargate has probably been heading in this direction for a while, but it doesn't mean I have to like it. ;) However, I suppose if they left them "stranded" on a random planet in a galaxy far, far away folks would just be screaming that it was Atlantis all over again. Hmmm.

It's a shame everyone is so hellbent on it remaining a contemporary show because I think it might be interesting if it was set in some future time shortly after Earth has been destroyed by some powerful new enemy, forcing the SGC (or whatever it is to be called in the future) to the Alpha/Beta/Gamma Site. Of course, then I'm sure folks would be screaming BSG ripoff, so there's probably no real way to win this particular argument. LOL!

Of course, if you want to get technical you could point out that the city of Atlantis is a ship, itself, so technically we already have a ship-based series. It's just a ship that generally stays in one place. ;)

The thing I think will hamstring the show the most- even more than the "young audience" and "ship based" aspects- is that it'll have the same writers as the previous two shows. I think it's vital for the survival of the franchise for Brad to hire fresh new writers to take SGU to heights the old writers could never imagine. But alas, that will never happen and thus the show will be just as immature as it currently sounds. :P

[the fifth man]

From what I have heard thus far about Universe, nothing is making me inclined to hate it. I plan on giving it a fair shot, and hopefully, enjoying it. I refuse to judge it until I've actually seen it.

[Morrolan]

I have a feeling that the premise and the characters will change before the series hits the air. My grievances are more toward the fans than the actual concept.

First, a younger team is most likely going to be late 20's to mid 30's. Stargate has always tried to maintain some sort of realism. Having "kids" in their late teens or early 20's just wouldn't fit with the franchise. Until the cast is announced, all these posts mocking the decision to relate to a younger audience are just silly.

Second, the ship angle is interesting. I would prefer if there are times Destiny stays in one place for a few episodes, but I think having ship to ship combat fits in with the evolution of the franchise. If the whole series takes place in space, early cancellation is a certainty.

Count me as skeptical, but hopeful.

[hisg1fans]

The 'younger audience' angle is what is making me hesitant to be excited and skeptical about the stories.

[Livestick]

The 'younger audience' angle is what is making me hesitant to be excited and skeptical about the stories.

Me too.

[ciannwn]

I don't like the sound of those mostly young and desperate explorers. For some reason it makes me think of that saying - When in danger, when in doubt, run in circles, scream and shout.

I think the information which bothers me the most is the crew being unable to control the ship's navigation schedule. I have visions of endless planet of the week stories where we're all supposed to bite our nails in case the star characters don't get back to the ship in time. What we could end up doing is thinking on the lines of "We've never seen him before. He's been given a few lines to let us know he has a gray haired old grandma back on Earth. He's got to be the one who's getting left behind to remind us that the star characters are always in danger if they go down to a planet."

[Blistna]

There are a variety of reasons I'm dubious about SGU.

The core one for me is my worry about the shift in identity of what is Stargate as a show, but I've discussed THAT to death. ;)

Failing that, I think what worries me most about this premise, out of the tangible info we've been given, is the fact that it's on a ship. The idea of them being stuck at the farest regions of the universe could lead to awe inspiring scenes, the actual SGU logo with the nebula is evident of this. There could be some ASTONISHING sights, particularly if we ever see the absolutely edge of the universe. And I don't mind a present day contingient not being able to contact earth again.

But WHY a ship? Why make it ship based? Why space battles? Why can't they just be stranded on another planet out there? It's the ship, at the heart of it, the ship and the ship alone which is at the root my misgivings of SGU.

What about you guys?


Feel free to discuss or contribute your own personal grievences.


(And for the record, this isn't an "Anti" thread)



If by shifting of identity is that it is going to be more character based then the earth mythology based, thats the only thing I'm worried about. However, I dod believe they can still get some earth mythology in there and I hope they will.

But at the bolded text, one of your major misgivings, I have something for you.

Look at this link if you want good ideas of why this show is going to be good (The Link (http://forum.gateworld.net/showthread.php?p=8900621#post8900621)) and to see that I've posted this before. However, why a ship? Well, the idea of a Stargate is amazing. But humans love to explore. it's partly why we love space shows, because we love to explore. And the Stargate is the best way to explore. However, it's limited because a ship has to bring the gates to the galaxies. So how does one over come that? With this project "Destiny" and the Ninth Cheveron.

So thats the "why a ship". But you seem to think that this ship will give them some advantage. They can't control the ship. Sure, they might control weapons, but if they can't navigate it, thats a huge disadvantage. Second, think of it as a moving SGC. The show will have to use the ship. We might actually have an entire team left behind, and see what happens with them. We might even see them die, or maybe they find a way to Earth or back to the Destiny. That alone is an amazing aspect.

So as you can see, its not really a bad thing that its a ship. It's more of a movable SGC or Atlantis is a better example, because it has shields/cloak/weapons and the SGC doesn't really.

Of course, does it has weapons, or is it cloaked for the most part? That could add some interesting ideas, because then space battles will almost never happen. ;-) Which is a plus for you, I take it.


I have a feeling that the premise and the characters will change before the series hits the air. My grievances are more toward the fans than the actual concept.

First, a younger team is most likely going to be late 20's to mid 30's. Stargate has always tried to maintain some sort of realism. Having "kids" in their late teens or early 20's just wouldn't fit with the franchise. Until the cast is announced, all these posts mocking the decision to relate to a younger audience are just silly.

Second, the ship angle is interesting. I would prefer if there are times Destiny stays in one place for a few episodes, but I think having ship to ship combat fits in with the evolution of the franchise. If the whole series takes place in space, early cancellation is a certainty.

Count me as skeptical, but hopeful.

Where do you get that they will have a young cast? Is it this, "We really don't want to be more of the same. It's going to build clearly off the existing franchise but with a cast that gives it a younger vibe." -- Gateworld.net (http://www.gateworld.net/news/2008/08/istargate_universei_has_a_go.shtml)

Is that where it comes from? Because when I hear that, I don't think younger cast, I think of a younger audiance. Because it is completely unrealstic that kids who are 20 will go. They wouldn't send a unprepared crew to a place they don't expect them to come. I'm thinking people the age of Shepperd and Mitchel, because both of those lead characters are young. Or look young. And maybe they have been trying to do this, but couldn't because the way the series is set up. So...is there another reason you think its going to be a "young cast"?



I don't like the sound of those mostly young and desperate explorers. For some reason it makes me think of that saying - When in danger, when in doubt, run in circles, scream and shout.

I think the information which bothers me the most is the crew being unable to control the ship's navigation schedule. I have visions of endless planet of the week stories where we're all supposed to bite our nails in case the star characters don't get back to the ship in time. What we could end up doing is thinking on the lines of "We've never seen him before. He's been given a few lines to let us know he has a gray haired old grandma back on Earth. He's got to be the one who's getting left behind to remind us that the star characters are always in danger if they go down to a planet."


Maybe you should read this post from killman.


well it would be cool to stop following just one team and one ship. why not have a season which does it different: we start out on the destiny, destiny explores, group's left behind. next eppy focussus on that team. next back on the destiny, things like that

That would add to the suspense I think. And instead of loosing them, we'll see them come back home. Maybe they will always have a list of gates where they will be, at what time, and it's a race to the next destination. That will be fun. And amazing.

[Mcfergeson]

From what I have heard thus far about Universe, nothing is making me inclined to hate it. I plan on giving it a fair shot, and hopefully, enjoying it. I refuse to judge it until I've actually seen it.

Couldn't agree more. I'm going to wait until I see it before I pass judgement, as well.

[Flyboy]

If by shifting of identity is that it is going to be more character based then the earth mythology based, thats the only thing I'm worried about. However, I dod believe they can still get some earth mythology in there and I hope they will.

But at the bolded text, one of your major misgivings, I have something for you.

Look at this link if you want good ideas of why this show is going to be good (The Link (http://forum.gateworld.net/showthread.php?p=8900621#post8900621)) and to see that I've posted this before. However, why a ship? Well, the idea of a Stargate is amazing. But humans love to explore. it's partly why we love space shows, because we love to explore. And the Stargate is the best way to explore. However, it's limited because a ship has to bring the gates to the galaxies. So how does one over come that? With this project "Destiny" and the Ninth Cheveron.

So thats the "why a ship". But you seem to think that this ship will give them some advantage. They can't control the ship. Sure, they might control weapons, but if they can't navigate it, thats a huge disadvantage. Second, think of it as a moving SGC. The show will have to use the ship. We might actually have an entire team left behind, and see what happens with them. We might even see them die, or maybe they find a way to Earth or back to the Destiny. That alone is an amazing aspect.

So as you can see, its not really a bad thing that its a ship. It's more of a movable SGC or Atlantis is a better example, because it has shields/cloak/weapons and the SGC doesn't really.

Of course, does it has weapons, or is it cloaked for the most part? That could add some interesting ideas, because then space battles will almost never happen. ;-) Which is a plus for you, I take it.



Where do you get that they will have a young cast? Is it this, "We really don't want to be more of the same. It's going to build clearly off the existing franchise but with a cast that gives it a younger vibe." -- Gateworld.net (http://www.gateworld.net/news/2008/08/istargate_universei_has_a_go.shtml)

Is that where it comes from? Because when I hear that, I don't think younger cast, I think of a younger audiance. Because it is completely unrealstic that kids who are 20 will go. They wouldn't send a unprepared crew to a place they don't expect them to come. I'm thinking people the age of Shepperd and Mitchel, because both of those lead characters are young. Or look young. And maybe they have been trying to do this, but couldn't because the way the series is set up. So...is there another reason you think its going to be a "young cast"?




Maybe you should read this post from killman.



That would add to the suspense I think. And instead of loosing them, we'll see them come back home. Maybe they will always have a list of gates where they will be, at what time, and it's a race to the next destination. That will be fun. And amazing.
I see what you're saying, and I had read your (nicely put together) post, but for me it's moving towards the futuristic and frankly I'd rather see an Earth ship out there than An Ancient ship again, I'd just rather it were a squad of marines with nothing more than their surplus kit on their backs.

By identity, check this thread out: http://forum.gateworld.net/showthread.php?t=58053

[ciannwn]

Maybe you should read this post from killman.

I did and think it's a great idea. Is thekillman going to be writing the stories, though? :)

[Blistna]

I see what you're saying, and I had read your (nicely put together) post, but for me it's moving towards the futuristic and frankly I'd rather see an Earth ship out there than An Ancient ship again, I'd just rather it were a squad of marines with nothing more than their surplus kit on their backs.

By identity, check this thread out: http://forum.gateworld.net/showthread.php?t=58053

I still don't see it. I really don't know, it could be all about space battles, but how boring would that be? I mean, the ship would automatically move itself away from fire, all we have to do is hit the bad guys. I have a feeling the ship is going to be cloaked and have little to no weopans, at least thats how I see it the more I think about the show. But if its the way you see it, yes that would make for a boring show and it won't last one season. But i think your going to give the show a shot, so really it doesn't matter what we think, just what actually happens :-).


I did and think it's a great idea. Is thekillman going to be writing the stories, though? :)

Of course he is! Lol, just kidding. No, but I bet thats in Brad's mind. At least it should be!

[Flyboy]

I still don't see it. I really don't know, it could be all about space battles, but how boring would that be? I mean, the ship would automatically move itself away from fire, all we have to do is hit the bad guys. I have a feeling the ship is going to be cloaked and have little to no weopans, at least thats how I see it the more I think about the show. But if its the way you see it, yes that would make for a boring show and it won't last one season. But i think your going to give the show a shot, so really it doesn't matter what we think, just what actually happens :-).



Of course he is! Lol, just kidding. No, but I bet thats in Brad's mind. At least it should be!
Oh damn right I'm gonna give it a shot, but it doesn't mean I'm not worried considerably. I just want the show to feel considerably more "present day" than Atlantis did. And I see it looking even more futuristic.

[hamatau'ri]

Yeah, beyond the whole youth-oriented sex "relationship" based premise of the show, which I also distrust, I'm not liking the ship aspect, either. I think Stargate has probably been heading in this direction for a while, but it doesn't mean I have to like it. ;) However, I suppose if they left them "stranded" on a random planet in a galaxy far, far away folks would just be screaming that it was Atlantis all over again. Hmmm.

It's a shame everyone is so hellbent on it remaining a contemporary show because I think it might be interesting if it was set in some future time shortly after Earth has been destroyed by some powerful new enemy, forcing the SGC (or whatever it is to be called in the future) to the Alpha/Beta/Gamma Site. Of course, then I'm sure folks would be screaming BSG ripoff, so there's probably no real way to win this particular argument. LOL!

Of course, if you want to get technical you could point out that the city of Atlantis is a ship, itself, so technically we already have a ship-based series. It's just a ship that generally stays in one place. ;)

The thing I think will hamstring the show the most- even more than the "young audience" and "ship based" aspects- is that it'll have the same writers as the previous two shows. I think it's vital for the survival of the franchise for Brad to hire fresh new writers to take SGU to heights the old writers could never imagine. But alas, that will never happen and thus the show will be just as immature as it currently sounds. :P

On that subject, since it is an Atlantean ship, it should be noted that the word "ship" shouldn't be taken too literally, It might be a bit like a Ancient City Ship, without the snowflake, obviously.

[ShadowMaat]

Because when I hear that, I don't think younger cast, I think of a younger audiance. Because it is completely unrealstic that kids who are 20 will go. They wouldn't send a unprepared crew to a place they don't expect them to come. I'm thinking people the age of Shepperd and Mitchel, because both of those lead characters are young. Or look young. And maybe they have been trying to do this, but couldn't because the way the series is set up. So...is there another reason you think its going to be a "young cast"?
You think kids will watch a show full of old people? ;) Or rather, do you think the Suits believe that kids will watch a show full of old people? :rolleyes:

Could they mean people in Sheppard's range of ancient decrepitude? Possibly, but if so then why say they want a "younger feel" when Atlantis should fit the bill? "Younger feel" implies something different than what we've been given in SG-1 and Atlantis. And these are the network Suits we're talking about: they tend to think very literally and in words of one syllable. :P If a "younger feel" doesn't translate to "younger cast" I'll be surprised.

As for killman's post, gods, I've wanted a wider scope on the SG-verse since hints of Atlantis were first announced. Heck, even before that, back in the dusty days when I still actually watched SG-1 I was thinking it'd be nice to see more of the other teams. Alas, I don't think it's going to happen. TPTB only know how to write one show with one formula and that means a single-team focus. More's the pity...

[Blistna]

You think kids will watch a show full of old people? ;) Or rather, do you think the Suits believe that kids will watch a show full of old people? :rolleyes:

Could they mean people in Sheppard's range of ancient decrepitude? Possibly, but if so then why say they want a "younger feel" when Atlantis should fit the bill? "Younger feel" implies something different than what we've been given in SG-1 and Atlantis. And these are the network Suits we're talking about: they tend to think very literally and in words of one syllable. :P If a "younger feel" doesn't translate to "younger cast" I'll be surprised.

As for killman's post, gods, I've wanted a wider scope on the SG-verse since hints of Atlantis were first announced. Heck, even before that, back in the dusty days when I still actually watched SG-1 I was thinking it'd be nice to see more of the other teams. Alas, I don't think it's going to happen. TPTB only know how to write one show with one formula and that means a single-team focus. More's the pity...

First off, it could be they attempted that with Atlantis but didn't get it. And that they attempted that with Ben Browder, but didn't get it. And Sheppard and Mitchel are both young. They aren't old.

As to them following one forumula, Brad has all ready said its not going to be the same formula, but didn't give any specifics. If you don't believe that, then you shouldn't take anything they say serious ;).

[Arica15]

Great posts from everyone.

Universe just sounds boring, a bit of Atlantis retooled (ship of the ancients instead of city of the ancients) with even the same 'cut off' motif that was in the first season crossed with Voyager and BSG. Just nothing new, nothing interesting, and as for the 'younger audience' nonsense. Correct me if I'm wrong but one of the thing they've been crowing about are the numbers of 18 - 30 years old who watch SGA - so who are they aiming this show at pre-school?)

But to me Universe just sounds boring, a lot of people say they will watch it because of the Stargate link (a lot of people say they won't watch it because of the same thing!:S) but personally I'll judge it on it's own merits be it called Staragte Universe, Star Trek Universe or even Muppets Universe and everything that I've heard so far just sends me to sleep. Now if I hear something in the coming months that grabs my attention then I may very well check it out, but at the moment my feeling on Universe is thanks, but no thanks

[valaCB]

because they cancel Atlantis for it!:zelenkaanime07::comeon:

[ShadowMaat]

As to them following one forumula, Brad has all ready said its not going to be the same formula, but didn't give any specifics. If you don't believe that, then you shouldn't take anything they say serious ;).

Brad also swore up and down that Atlantis was going to be different and it wound up being pretty much the same thing as SG-1. ;) If he says it'll be a different formula, I'll take that with a grain of salt... and then when SGU is in its third season maybe I'll revisit the idea and see if it still holds true. And if it EVER held true. :)

[Jackie]

the writers don't have a lot of options that they can do for a stargate spin off.

they can do:

new sg-1 team based show which teens being cast as the new sg-1.

AU "sliders" type show where they go from reality to reality.

Stranded in another galaxy...SGA

Stargate on a ship...SGU

or go future or past based.

Future...SGC in 2020

Past...Indiana Jones finds the gate...lol.

The writers chose the ship becuase it gives them the most amount of options in one series. Hence, Stargate Voyager.

I would have liked to have seen a spin off based in another culture, akin to Jonas home world, that is decades behind earth who start their own program and Earth is a new concept to them. With a whole new planet with a whole mythology that does lead into earth's to explore.

Instead of doing the ship thing, the show would actually look at Earth, SG-1 through the eyes of aliens. (We would in fact be the aliens) On a planet where combustion engines and airpower is a new technology.

Find a parallel mythology that takes earth mysteries and expands on them.

Then have this planet suffer the same issues we suffered 60 years ago. Have world war with two gates. Good guys and bad guys. Each searching the galaxy for better weapons to win the world war with.

Imagine ww2 and if USA and the Nazi's both had a working gate program but the Goa'uld have been wiped out by another planet that was ahead of us but only by decades and had values similar to the USA, but at the same time they didn't want to get involved with our world war.

And as our flag ship team goes out they hear stories of SG-1 and the great people from whatever the Jaffa call us. (Of course when we finally do meet with the great aliens we are not really impressed...they have issues too.)

I would also like to see not just the teams going off world in a race to get technology but also what is happening on their planet and the war as it progresses.

[thedrumm3rguy]

cool idea,!!! sounds a ton better than the SGU plot :P

u could combine bsg character issues with sg universe scope! :D

...only problem is....sounds too decent: execs wont like it, far easier to make Stargate: Surviver! :lol:


ill watch SGU: hope for the best, prepare for the worst?

[Bytor]

There are a variety of reasons I'm dubious about SGU.

The core one for me is my worry about the shift in identity of what is Stargate as a show, but I've discussed THAT to death. ;)

Failing that, I think what worries me most about this premise, out of the tangible info we've been given, is the fact that it's on a ship. The idea of them being stuck at the farest regions of the universe could lead to awe inspiring scenes, the actual SGU logo with the nebula is evident of this. There could be some ASTONISHING sights, particularly if we ever see the absolutely edge of the universe. And I don't mind a present day contingient not being able to contact earth again.

But WHY a ship? Why make it ship based? Why space battles? Why can't they just be stranded on another planet out there? It's the ship, at the heart of it, the ship and the ship alone which is at the root my misgivings of SGU.

What about you guys?

Feel free to discuss or contribute your own personal grievences.

(And for the record, this isn't an "Anti" thread)

I don't think it's the ship based series causing worry for me. I like space shows... I like ships. It's great to see the series evolve into a ship based show from the modern day primitive roots in the beginning of SG1.

Look at every single star trek series..... always based on ships... even DS9 to an extent in the later seasons when they found out a stationary base isn't fun..... it was the same crap for every single season. This is something new for the Stargate Franchise and we saw the evolution up to this point, I think this is the most interesting part of the show.

I am VERY worried however about the younger vibe thing. I don't want it to be the cast of Smallville or Buffy. I doubt they can cast the perfect actors AGAIN... after already having picked great ones for SG1 and Atlantis.... the odds are some bad choices will happen. I am also worried about the "character driven" phrase.... I HATE battlestar galactica more than you can imagine.... and that is supposedly the best "Character Driven" Sci-Fi out there.......... ugh

edit: yea and the complete seperation from SG1 and SGA... that kinda hurts...

[Skydiver]

And i won't say that i hate it, i don't even hate SGA, I'd have to care about it more to generate hate. And there's just no emotional attachment to SGA, so there's no hate. just maybe a bit of wistfulness at the waste of something that could have been so much better (better being a relative term)


my 'issues' are:

the same writers. These guys have been cranking out the same stuff for years now. and they seem to cling to familiar stories, familiar set ups, familiar cliches and I personally am getting a bit bored with it. They need folks that can write stuff that catches you off guard. They need to write stuff that your average viewer can't see coming.

'younger audience'....what precisely does that mean? Beverly Hills 90212 soap opera? Young Love? 20's aged actors all as sexily clad as possible? Or a dependance on slap stick and sex jokes? Do i get to relive high school in the 'humor' area?

ship based - you know, what made stargate unique was that it DIDN'T have a ship. It was science fiction that did nto have space ships and floating star fields. By depending totally on a ship, sure, i'm sure it's more budgetary friendly, but it's also just more of the same old, same old. They will no longer have a unique aspect and will just be another scifi show.

What made Stargate intriguing was that you could drive down I25 in denver, see Cheyenne Mountain and go....mmhm, maybe. and have that sense of wonder and intrigue.

but with a space ship? There's no wonder there. There's no 'what if'.

so my biggest 'beef'...will Universe be something unique and intriguing, or yet more 'scifi by the numbers'....with predictible characters and predictible interactions?

the cynic i me can already get an idea as to the casting

roguish hero
misfit brilliant scientist
token alien brute
token alien babe (which may be substituted for token human babe)
a couple of quirky background characters to kick off the 'humor'

the hero and the scientist will develop this friendship that will becomethe focus of the show, while the two other token characters are just there, and get more and more ignored as the writers settle into the familiar crutch of sticking with what is easy (male banter) and never quite get around to shaking things up.

Will i watch it? Probably. Will i enjoy it? it depends. Will they do something truly different, or will Universe just be Atlantis 2.0?

[quade_1]

I like the idea of a ship, a new team, being cutoff, and younger cast. The things that worry me is, will there be a Stargate on the ship? And the character drama, I was never big on that crap, I watched BSG for 1 season and got disinterested when they replaced the dog fighting with love scenes. The antagonist shifted from the cylons to their emotions. boooooring

[jenks]

There'll definitely be a Stargate on the ship, can't really comment on the character stuff yet...

[leiasky]

I actually like the premise that it takes place on the ship. I think with the right creative minds that they can make the show interesting. I'm FAR more worried about them bringing in a 'younger', less mature cast.

SG1 was never about relationship angst, though it was often in the background. Subtle. Just where it should be.

I hope they don't turn the show into 90210 in space.

[thekillman]

i really hope it wont be a soap. following a lost team, and the destiny, and seeing how people develop to eachother would be cool. not "who dates who"

[SGFerrit]

There are a variety of reasons I'm dubious about SGU.

The core one for me is my worry about the shift in identity of what is Stargate as a show, but I've discussed THAT to death. ;)

Failing that, I think what worries me most about this premise, out of the tangible info we've been given, is the fact that it's on a ship. The idea of them being stuck at the farest regions of the universe could lead to awe inspiring scenes, the actual SGU logo with the nebula is evident of this. There could be some ASTONISHING sights, particularly if we ever see the absolutely edge of the universe. And I don't mind a present day contingient not being able to contact earth again.

But WHY a ship? Why make it ship based? Why space battles? Why can't they just be stranded on another planet out there? It's the ship, at the heart of it, the ship and the ship alone which is at the root my misgivings of SGU.

What about you guys?


Feel free to discuss or contribute your own personal grievences.


(And for the record, this isn't an "Anti" thread)

I think that has more to do with the fact that they want to explore a much wider range of places. Another Atlantis style base wouldn't allow for that. They can explore loads of Galaxies with a ship, not just one or two. And the whole 'Stargate seeding the universe' thing, which is the whole point of the show, only really works with something that moves through space and between the different galaxies. Again, it just wouldn't work with another Atlantis style base.

[Cautious Explorer]

It's the same PTB, same writers. They've already proven they aren't equipped to create something new and stick with it. Look at SGA. After one season it just had to be reunited with Earth. Why? For SG-1 cameo's? They ran out of ideas with the Wraith, so brought over replicators. Couldn't think of what to do with Weir so the dumped her and their search for a replacement lead them where? An SG-1 character of course. Now they're talking about SG-1 characters in the SGA movies!

These guys can't let go, can't move ahead and will end up running around in the same circles all over again with SGU.

It might help if I liked SG-1, but I've hardly ever been able to sit through an entire episode. So, I don't like what TPTB did before SGA and I don't like where they've taken SGA now. Why bother with SGU? It'll be the same old thing.

[jenks]

Works both ways though doesn't it? TPTB have created 300+ episodes of great entertainment, why should we assume they'll start making crap now?

[Cautious Explorer]

Works both ways though doesn't it? TPTB have created 300+ episodes of great entertainment, why should we assume they'll start making crap now?

Your theory is highly dependent on your definition of "great entertainment".

If you enjoyed SG-1 and the last few years of SGA, then I would imagine you'll get more of the same. For me, that's NOT great entertainment.

[Flyboy]

I think that has more to do with the fact that they want to explore a much wider range of places. Another Atlantis style base wouldn't allow for that. They can explore loads of Galaxies with a ship, not just one or two. And the whole 'Stargate seeding the universe' thing, which is the whole point of the show, only really works with something that moves through space and between the different galaxies. Again, it just wouldn't work with another Atlantis style base.
Who says they need a "base". Why can't a single team of say.. ten be stuck alone at the very edge of the universe?

[leiasky]

Now they're talking about SG-1 characters in the SGA movies!


That would actually make me more inclined to watch it. I MUCH prefer the SG1 cast.

SGA went downhill when they got rid of Weir and Beckett. But made me come back for Season 4 because Carter was in it. There's nothing I don't like about the first 8 seasons of SG1. The last two - well, cast changes really did the show in for me at that point.

[Cautious Explorer]

That would actually make me more inclined to watch it. I MUCH prefer the SG1 cast.

SGA went downhill when they got rid of Weir and Beckett. But made me come back for Season 4 because Carter was in it. There's nothing I don't like about the first 8 seasons of SG1. The last two - well, cast changes really did the show in for me at that point.

That's kind of how I feel about SGA. First years were great. Cast changes after Beckett and Weir and a decline in writing IMO ruined the show for me.

If SG-1 is what TPTB love and can't let go of, fine. Just don't pretend to be interested in something new if it's going to be compromised by a desire to hang onto the past. IMO that's what caused a lot of problems for SGA and will likely continue in SGU.

[quade_1]

Who says they need a "base". Why can't a single team of say.. ten be stuck alone at the very edge of the universe?

*cough*infinity*/cough*


IMO weir was an anchor. She had no character development, and Torri Higginson wasn't the best actress. It seemed like alot of her scenes were akward moments with lots of pauses and silences that dragged on. I would cringe when i saw her character walk in, and that was my cue to go get a drink or to the washroom. (in canada new episodes air on movie central and the network is commercial free) I thought it was just starting to pick up in Seasons 4 and 5. I felt like Atlantis season 2 was an all time low in Stargate.

[Flyboy]

*cough*infinity*/cough*


IMO weir was an anchor. She had no character development, and Torri Higginson wasn't the best actress. It seemed like alot of her scenes were akward moments with lots of pauses and silences that dragged on. I would cringe when i saw her character walk in, and that was my cue to go get a drink or to the washroom. (in canada new episodes air on movie central and the network is commercial free) I thought it was just starting to pick up in Seasons 4 and 5. I felt like Atlantis season 2 was an all time low in Stargate.
It's all in the execution.

Say the Destiny blows up, and our heroic band of soldiers would be stranded on a planet at the darkest edge of the universe with nonly basic surplus military kit, such as tents and trangiers and such. From there they must move through the universe, encountering vastly superior and amazingly alien races with technology and culture way beyond our own, advancing in directions we could never conceive of. These soldiers would be searching for a means to get home, maybe the original Gate Seeding ship, or some other race willing to help. At the end of the day, they'd just be fighting to survive. No futuristic weaponry, no ship battles, just on foot exploration of the universe. Thus keeping the core things that made Stargate great, but throwing it into a new setting.

Bit like Infinity? Sure! But the only thing that made Infinity bad was the poor dialogue & stories, and lazy animation.

[quade_1]

It's all in the execution.

Say the Destiny blows up, and our heroic band of soldiers would be stranded on a planet at the darkest edge of the universe with nonly basic surplus military kit, such as tents and trangiers and such. From there they must move through the universe, encountering vastly superior and amazingly alien races with technology and culture way beyond our own, advancing in directions we could never conceive of. These soldiers would be searching for a means to get home, maybe the original Gate Seeding ship, or some other race willing to help. At the end of the day, they'd just be fighting to survive. No futuristic weaponry, no ship battles, just on foot exploration of the universe. Thus keeping the core things that made Stargate great, but throwing it into a new setting.

Bit like Infinity? Sure! But the only thing that made Infinity bad was the poor dialogue & stories, and lazy animation.

and a 22minute format that alotted 10 mins for the story :(

Im with you on the space battles, a couple a year is good, but i don't want to feel like im watching a video game every week. I like the travelling on foot and "stepping through the gate" part of the show. The jumpers are used more in Atlantis than some of the cast.

[Skydiver]

I think that has more to do with the fact that they want to explore a much wider range of places. Another Atlantis style base wouldn't allow for that. They can explore loads of Galaxies with a ship, not just one or two. And the whole 'Stargate seeding the universe' thing, which is the whole point of the show, only really works with something that moves through space and between the different galaxies. Again, it just wouldn't work with another Atlantis style base.
the thing is, will they? will they do something unique and new????

or will we have yet more humans in medieval villages???

I look at all the funky aliens that Dr who comes up with, and Torchwood and wonder, dude, if the brits can come up wtih these cool aliens (that are, yes, people in rubber masks, just really good rubber masks) why can't our guys????

will we have REAL alien looking aliens? or just more humans in funky clothes?

10+ years of experience with these writers suggests to me that it'll jsut more same old, same old

[jenks]

the thing is, will they? will they do something unique and new????

or will we have yet more humans in medieval villages???

I look at all the funky aliens that Dr who comes up with, and Torchwood and wonder, dude, if the brits can come up wtih these cool aliens (that are, yes, people in rubber masks, just really good rubber masks) why can't our guys????

will we have REAL alien looking aliens? or just more humans in funky clothes?

10+ years of experience with these writers suggests to me that it'll jsut more same old, same old

They're not though are they? They're really pathetic, downright embarrassing rubber masks. Either that or really poor CGI. The reason Stargate doesn't do as many aliens is because there standards are so much higher, they can't get away with the same crap that Dr Who can.

[Skydiver]

oh i dunno, the Ood were pretty good, as were some of the others.

Not every alien needs to be heavily rubber masked, but every once in a while it'd be nice to see some alien looking aliens.

and please, please, please, please, burn down that frakking medieval village set!!!!!!! Donate it to the Vancouver Renaissance Festival, or something.

If they're gonna do everything in a studio, put the set designers to work and come up with something different. Heck, trek did it 30 years ago, they can do it now

[Ikaros]

Since all you have, and i say you, because i am not watching the damn thing, is what you have been told by sci boos and Brad Wright etc,
a)You won't have a good old sci fi show, but a space opera.
b)You wont have a balanced team, but a team around the "well -known name". The hero and his minions.
c)They kept the medieval villagers even in another galaxy, why changing them now? What would they do of all those costumes?? "Franchise " lovers wont mind anyway.
Going to bed, i have plenty more reasons not to like it, even before it's on .... but i am sleepy.

[Flyboy]

the thing is, will they? will they do something unique and new????

or will we have yet more humans in medieval villages???

I look at all the funky aliens that Dr who comes up with, and Torchwood and wonder, dude, if the brits can come up wtih these cool aliens (that are, yes, people in rubber masks, just really good rubber masks) why can't our guys????

will we have REAL alien looking aliens? or just more humans in funky clothes?

10+ years of experience with these writers suggests to me that it'll jsut more same old, same old

Ah well, you know what they say about us Brits...

Actually... even I don't know what they say about us, but I'm sure it's something SWELL.

You have a good point though. Considering that Doctor Who is created by a television network sponsored by the government, which, though I don't know for sure, will ASSUME it has less money than a great big company like MGM which gets money from lots of places, and not just dvd sales and TV licence fees... it does boggle the mind.

I suppose part of it is that Doctor Who only runs for 13 episodes, but then we have Torchwood as well, and if you put the two together then you pretty much have just over a full SG series.

I think you're right, it comes down to creative writing. The first two seasons of New Who only involved Planet Earth really, with one exception, but that's NO excuse, because TPTB SG use the SAME DAMN FOREST every episode.

Some of the aliens in Doctor Who are awful, such as the Slitheen (http://www.bbc.co.uk/doctorwho/gallery/monsters/1024/slitheen.jpg), but others, such as "the beast (http://profbw.files.wordpress.com/2007/10/the_beast.jpg)" or even the Trees (http://www.bbc.co.uk/doctorwho/gallery/monsters/1024/jabe.jpg), are amazing, and all they require is innovative writing.

You know, SG1 USED to do this kind of thing, there were the Spirits (http://www.gateworld.net/omnipedia/races/links/spiritsthe.shtml) and the Re'tu (http://www.gateworld.net/omnipedia/races/links/spiritsthe.shtml). So why on earth have they stopped.

Serious question, when was the last time we DID see an alien race other than the Wraith or the goa'uld? (ascended beings don't count).


So yea, basically Sky, I concur.


Thankfully, I hear they're getting rid of the village set now.

[jenks]

oh i dunno, the Ood were pretty good, as were some of the others.

Not every alien needs to be heavily rubber masked, but every once in a while it'd be nice to see some alien looking aliens.

and please, please, please, please, burn down that frakking medieval village set!!!!!!! Donate it to the Vancouver Renaissance Festival, or something.

If they're gonna do everything in a studio, put the set designers to work and come up with something different. Heck, trek did it 30 years ago, they can do it now


7. Do you know yet which of the standing sets will need to be dismantled to make room for Universe, or will the studio space expand?

For now, we’ll be holding onto Stage 5 (our SG-1 standing set) and Stage 6 (our Atlantis standing set). We’ll probably move the Daedalus and hive sets over to a smaller stage and end the village’s glorious run.

http://stargate-sg1-solutions.com/blog/?p=1604

[Skydiver]

other than the asgard - which they've killed off (no spoilers please), when was the last time we had an alien race that wasnt' just dressed up humans? (and by dressed up i mean costumes only, not prosthetics)

the main example that comes to my mind is Space Race, and i can't recall others off the top of my head really prior to that beyond the Unas and the foothold aliens

It doesn't have to be every episode, but...hey, these are ALIEN planets, and while the 'the goa'uld terraformed all their planets to facilitate the human slaves' excuse worked for most of the show...for a while they did drop some really unique ones in. Like the yellow sand planet in season one (filmed in a giant pile of sulpher in vancouver bay), or the tons of purple flowers in FIAD, dream or not.

Not every planet needs to be fantastical, but toss in a couple every once in a while, just to liven things up.

but 'livening things up' seems to take second or third place to 'convenient and easy'

[SGFerrit]

I thought the Daedalus Variations aliens were pretty alien, and hopefully there will be aliens under those suits in First Contact/The Lost Tribe.

And hooray for the end of the village set!!!

[Skydiver]

true, they might be if they return. but, beyond the wraith, aren't they the first really alien looking aliens on the show?

[leiasky]

I'm hoping SGU doesn't turn into an alien of the week type of thing. Stargate works just fine without a bunch of aliens. I hope they keep the new series that way.

[ShadowMaat]

the cynic i me can already get an idea as to the casting

roguish hero
misfit brilliant scientist
token alien brute
token alien babe (which may be substituted for token human babe)
a couple of quirky background characters to kick off the 'humor'
Well, that IS their established pattern and I've known it for a while, but a little light just blinked on over my head: do you think this is why TPTB couldn't make Ford "work" as a character? He didn't fit the mold. Which is why they got rid of him and brought in a Token Alien Brute. Poor Ford. I think he was doomed from the start. :(



and please, please, please, please, burn down that frakking medieval village set!!!!!!! Donate it to the Vancouver Renaissance Festival, or something.
There's a thread around here called something like "New Villain?" and for a while every time I saw it I broke out in a cold sweat, misreading it as "New Village" and thinking, "Dear gods above, please, NO! Don't redress that stupid set AGAIN!" ;)

[bentdog]

1. They killed SGA for SGU!!
2. Less sci-fi? In a sci-fi heavy franchise!!! Really!?!?!
3. Aimed at a younger audience. (I'm 26)
4. The whole space opera thing. I try to stay away from shows were every episode is to be continued that gets really annoying. I want each episode to be its own story with an ending.

[Skydiver]

it's possible that's why Ford was written out...he wasn't comfortable to write so was too 'hard'.

[Flyboy]

I thought the Daedalus Variations aliens were pretty alien, and hopefully there will be aliens under those suits in First Contact/The Lost Tribe.

And hooray for the end of the village set!!!
I forgot about these, they MUST be memorable.

Ok... so one race. Since... S7 is it?

There hasn't been a single "alien" in SG1 since then, and I'm pretty sure, unless we count the things in "home" that the same can be said of SGA until the DV aliens.

Wow... that's about five years without any aliens except for the wraith and goa'uld.


Shall we play a game where we see when the last time we saw an alien planet was!!!?

[Skydiver]

define 'alien planet'....do you mean any time they were on the planet (and heck, you want rarities, count how often you actually SEE them walk through the gate, see, not just hear), or do you mean an alien planet that ISN'T Stanley Park and its beautiful ancient trees?

[Flyboy]

define 'alien planet'....do you mean any time they were on the planet (and heck, you want rarities, count how often you actually SEE them walk through the gate, see, not just hear), or do you mean an alien planet that ISN'T Stanley Park and its beautiful ancient trees?
Lol. The latter. Though the former might be a good one too. :P

I've just started rewatching Stargate from SG1 S1, and have only got so far as "Need" in S2, but already I've seen so many "alien looking" worlds, the sulphur pits you mentioned for one, the Fire and Water world, Tollana... Heck, it's nice just to see an extra moon, or a gaseous planet in the sky... SOMETHING showing us we're not on earth, I mean, sometimes the forests are GREAT, The Nox planet for example.

But how often do we need the same bloody village, with the same bloody forest, how DIFFICULT is it to add some alien plants, or to set it near a beach, or even just to put a frikkin planet in the sky?

[Skydiver]

you want a laugh? check out Evolution...and the great conifer rain forest of Hondouras...with the 3 rented banana trees and random rented birds/bugs

but yes, there are ways to make even terraformed worlds look alien. And many of those early alien planets were just unique locations in and around vancouver. Now i know things are different now. Vancouver has grown a LOT in the past 10 years and some of those locations no longer exist. (the show used, amongst other places, Jerico Beach, the sulpher pits, queen elizabeth park, gastown, simon frasier university, horizons, a cool place down by the water whose name escapes me at the moment...heck, a locations bus tour for the show can take all day) :)

and i'm sure that location shooting is expensive, but dude, if you're gonna spend your whole day on a set, use some funky lighting, CGI in some cool backgrounds, spray paint a ficus tree red....do something different. These are alien planets, the the possibilities are literally endless. Let your imagination run free and come up with something that hasn't been done 19 times before :)

[Flyboy]

you want a laugh? check out Evolution...and the great conifer rain forest of Hondouras...with the 3 rented banana trees and random rented birds/bugs

but yes, there are ways to make even terraformed worlds look alien. And many of those early alien planets were just unique locations in and around vancouver. Now i know things are different now. Vancouver has grown a LOT in the past 10 years and some of those locations no longer exist. (the show used, amongst other places, Jerico Beach, the sulpher pits, queen elizabeth park, gastown, simon frasier university, horizons, a cool place down by the water whose name escapes me at the moment...heck, a locations bus tour for the show can take all day) :)

and i'm sure that location shooting is expensive, but dude, if you're gonna spend your whole day on a set, use some funky lighting, CGI in some cool backgrounds, spray paint a ficus tree red....do something different. These are alien planets, the the possibilities are literally endless. Let your imagination run free and come up with something that hasn't been done 19 times before :)
Very true. But TPTB seemed to have forgotten what Stargate is about. I mean I know a lot of people disagree, but the general consensus is one of the following:

Mythology: Next to none existent now.
Present Day: Far too advanced.
Wonder of the universe: Wonder of canadian forests.
Characters and relationships: Poorly written.

I don't know what TPTB actually think the point of the show is these days, but its just daring adventures in earth away from earth Heck.

[Skydiver]

there is no sense of wonder or sense of exploration anymore. creativity and 'pushing the boundary' has fallen to 'crank it out as quickly, cheaply and efficiently as possible'

It's scifi by the numbers.

familar locations, the occasional stunt casting, predictible plots, cliched characters...and, unless tptb and the writers change for universe, all i can see in the future is more of the same.

original stargate was so intriguing because of its creativity. it fired the imagination.

current stargate? eh. template scifi.

and if the template continues for the third series...i give it 3 seasons at the most, and three would only be because someone at MGM would be too stubborn to give it up as quickly as they maybe should

[MathiasE]

I'm gonna give it a shot with an open mind, however i'm not too happy about it being on a ship, imho last couple of seasons of SG1 and almost all of SGA except season 1 has been too much shipbased which is not what STARGATE is about (all in my humble opinion of course)

[Acolyte Of Bli'l'ab]

hates a strong word, and since I havent seen it yet I wont judge either way...that said I *AM* pessimistic about it, and dont anyone dare complain at me for being so either because it is my right - and id rather be pessimistic and happily proved wrong than end up dissapointed.

That said, I dont -think- it will be very good - at least judging from the premise. Also the big one for me is simply the current writers - I think they started to run out of ideas about ten years ago, and these days they seem to be repeating themselves or just doing things that have been done to death (tick cliche-box where applicable). It also seems alot of the current generation of sci-fi fans are also wanting the sci-fi equivilent of a McDonalds Happy Meal, which doesnt help things either (could we have some real fictional science and concepts to incite our imaginations and creativity please ?).

[Blistna]

Here it goes. Lets name an episode. "The Ties That Bind Us" (http://www.gateworld.net/sg1/s9/904.shtml). That one had an alien. That was Season Nine. Then in Atlantis, there was the Wraith, there was that new alien race in Season Five and I bet we will see it again (or another alien race) in the mid-season two-parter.

However, from some of these comments, like I don't know...


I'm hoping SGU doesn't turn into an alien of the week type of thing. Stargate works just fine without a bunch of aliens. I hope they keep the new series that way.

And somewhere I heard somewhere about the same thing. And the whole comparison to Voyager, too, where Voyager had a lot of aliens in almost every show, that people don't really want aliens in Stargate. Well, I think you'll going to get it!

Listen, it's going to be hard to explain how humans that speak english are everywhere. I can deal with it in the milkyway, and the PG, because the Ancients have been there. And the whole language thing is just something I look past because honestly, I think watching someone try to learn a language on TV is just boring. That would take the ENTIRE hour and we wouldn't want that.

The point I'm trying to make here is this. People are calling the writers horrible...


It's the same PTB, same writers. They've already proven they aren't equipped to create something new and stick with it. Look at SGA. After one season it just had to be reunited with Earth. Why? For SG-1 cameo's? They ran out of ideas with the Wraith, so brought over replicators. Couldn't think of what to do with Weir so the dumped her and their search for a replacement lead them where? An SG-1 character of course. Now they're talking about SG-1 characters in the SGA movies!

These guys can't let go, can't move ahead and will end up running around in the same circles all over again with SGU.

It might help if I liked SG-1, but I've hardly ever been able to sit through an entire episode. So, I don't like what TPTB did before SGA and I don't like where they've taken SGA now. Why bother with SGU? It'll be the same old thing.

Which is just sad. He even admits he doesn't like SG-1. And he says first season of Atlantis was good. I actually DIDN'T like the first season, and watching Beckett and Weir go WAS AMAZING writing. I mean, really, did you say in the first two season "Oh yea, I imagine that Weir will actually die"? Did it actually come up? Look at SG-1, did any of the General's die? THAT was new. And that shows the writers will take out main characters...which usually add's suspence to the show, because when something bad happens to a character you'll actually wonder if they can live or not. Which generally, is a GOOD thing. Sure, we'll all miss said character, but it made us mad...sad...cry...and made us sit at the edge of our seats when Atlantis was attacked and Weir was blown back. Didn't? Come on, now, didn't!?!

And to those who complain about SGA being like SG-1..


That's kind of how I feel about SGA. First years were great. Cast changes after Beckett and Weir and a decline in writing IMO ruined the show for me.

If SG-1 is what TPTB love and can't let go of, fine. Just don't pretend to be interested in something new if it's going to be compromised by a desire to hang onto the past. IMO that's what caused a lot of problems for SGA and will likely continue in SGU.

OK, why do you say it's "compromised by a desire to hang onto the past"? Because some of the episodes are similar to SG-1? These giys have written 300+ episodes, and you expect them to make brand spanking new ones every time? Honestly, they are up against a lot since there is no original story anymore. Why I say that? Because honestly, you can make any story like any other story in the past...you can. Think the Stargate is original? Not really, it's similar to Babylon 5 with their "jump gate". It's a gate that takes you to another destination. Thats basically what it is. Thats not close enough for ya? In Wing Commender, they use "Jump Drive" which is similar, if I understand, to using a wormhole. That sounds a whole lot like Stargate to me. Sure, no gate, but it does use a wormhole.

The point I'm trying to make is, there is no originality. So what writers do (since I am a writer, I've both known this and learned this at college) is they take an idea they know of (wormhole) and make it their own (well, a stargate on a planet, that humans can be connected to any planet. And well...lets have phone numbers for each planet. Ah ha! We got something new...) and thats what the SG-1/SGA creators did. Now weather or not they did it successfully everytime throughout the Stargate Franchise is a question to be debated, however to actually say, "They've already proven they aren't equipped to create something new and stick with it." Is just wrong.

SGA is something new yet more of the same, I can agree to an extent. Something new because it's in a new galaxy, a new enemy, and even though it focuses on one team we do have Lourne's team which we see a lot, and the crew at SGA isn't really military, which effects the way things are run. And there are tons of new story concepts they created, can't think of many now...but for instance, the Shrine was a pretty good episode. The Deadlous Varitions was pretty cool and a new idea, and gave a new look at the PG because before we didn't know there was other life forms...but there could be, now.

Sure, they have a lot of repeats, or story concepts used before, but at least some of them were pulled off good. I actually never noticed them, so it fooled me, right? And with the Replicators? OK, so a race is outnumbers..."how do you fight a race thats just as powerful as you, more advanced in some ways (no shields but ship can regenrate..thats cool and better in some ways..and a weakness), and out numbers you? Oh, go gret dirty and make new kids! No...takes to long. Makes clones! Well...don't want that, people will draw to many connections with Star Wars....hmmm...machines! Well, making machines draw connections to many other shows. So lets do the Replicators again...it's better then ripping off other shows." -- That whole thing probably went through Brad's mind. Or whoever wrote them in. I don't really think Brad did much with Atlantis, so yea...but still. Whoever the writer(s), thats what they thought. How I know this? Because I ask myself the same questions. Then comes how do you stop them...oh wait, the episode "Be All My Sins Remembered" was pretty cool, and the way McCay destroyed them was both brillant and new. In fact, out of the entire Stargate series, that episode is by far my best. Had some great ship battles...realied heavily on smarts not power to win...and it created FRAN. How cool is that?


Your theory is highly dependent on your definition of "great entertainment".

If you enjoyed SG-1 and the last few years of SGA, then I would imagine you'll get more of the same. For me, that's NOT great entertainment.

Aparently, you don't like Stargate for some reason. You didn't like SG-1, I would have thought you wouldn't like Atlantis. And really...Atlantis...was it promised to be something new? I don't actually know, but really from just watching the first trailers that were poping up and watching the first season, you can see its just "more of the same". It's team based. Instead of having an entire cast of teams, more then just one focus, it focuses on one team. it has that one big bad guy who we can't win against. Deals with those weirdo ancients...even the team is alike. You have your alien (Telya and later on Ronan), your smart dude (McKay) your main military leader (Sheppard). The one weird cast was Ford...never liked him, the actor or the character. Just didn't feel right...maybe because he just didn't belong!

So...yea. But I wasn't on the internet seeing what people were saying about Atlantis back then. Or was I? I really don't remember...that was about, what, five years ago? I don't even know how old I was back then...(lol j/k)

But seriously guys. There is serious doubts about the show (maybe you don't want an opera...maybe you like the one episode wrap ups...whatever) and then there is just doubts thats just wrong. Sure, if you don't like SG-1 and SGA, your more then likely aren't going to like SGU. But who knows? If your looking for a show that MIGHT be like Lost, then you might like SGU. This time...we are being promised something different.

And anyone who says they wont do it, is just looking into the past and finding quotes to prove their point. Truth is, all we got was a little paragraph and one interview and a few quotes. What some people want and what people will get are entirely different things. The first episode is more then likely done by now, but wasn't even finished or barely even started when we learned all this. And its still not done -- needs a second, third, forth and so on drafts...editing...adding on to it...subtracting...recreating or even re-writing. SGU might look like Voyager now, but it might look a hell of a lot more like Babylon 5 when they are done. Or...who knows? Maybe it will be something so cool...so original...we can't help but love it. (lol its not going to be original as in new, but maybe a fresh perspective on something we have seen before) And from what we know, actually, it's all ready a fresh perspective. What would have happened if on Voyager they couldn't control the ship? Where would they be? That key element is going to make some nice entertainment and some new stories. Assuming the writers are even remotely good. And they should be...what, 10 years of one show (better then any Star Trek), five years of a spin-off (which is good for a station like Sci Fi...I mean Buffy only lasted five seasons on one station...and should have ended there :/) and two successful movies with more on the way and even a video game! Thats pretty amazing to me. So these writers are somewhat good. Someone likes their work. I sure as hell do. So I have faith that these ideas and more are running through their head waiting for us to see them.

One thing I can promise you is this...if you think it's going to suck before you watch it, don't waste your time. If you have doubts but are open minded, I bet your going to be pleased. If your too overly excited about it, have really high hopes...well, you might be disappointed. And who knows where you fall...but I'm excited but cautious. I know it has a lot of potiential, and I await to see if it's going to live to it's fullness...or even be better then what I think. And thats all I got to say now...

[ShadowMaat]

I am heartily sick of those who say, "Awww, those poor PTB! Look how many eps they've written! Can you honestly expect ALL of 'em to be original?" Frankly, yes, I do expect some originality. IT'S THEIR JOB to write new material instead of resting on their own laurels. And while there may be "nothing new under the sun" it doesn't mean that TPTB have to copy their own material. Ye gods! There are thousands of sources to draw from and hundreds of different ways to approach the "same old thing" that can make it SEEM new and interesting. But no. Instead there's this nagging sense of deja vu and you find yourself wondering (well, I find myself wondering) "haven't I seen this ep before?"

I liked Atlantis better when they were still cut off from Earth and on their own. I thought it gave the show an air of urgency and danger: if anything went wrong, they were basically screwed. One way ticket, but you know they had to come and all that rot. As soon as they started gating back to Earth, well, it made it a heck of a lot easier to cram in the crossovers, didn't it? :rolleyes: I predict the same thing will happen with SGU: there'll be some fire situation in the season finale and the end result will be, ta-dah! Contact with Earth. Roll out the red carpet for a steady stream of guest stars from SG-1 and Atlantis. Which will be sad and will mark the end of whatever shred of originality managed to cling to SGU.

Oh, and if the writers are so tired that they just keep churning out the same stories over and over? Maybe that's a hint that they should leave.

[Acolyte Of Bli'l'ab]

I liked Atlantis better when they were still cut off from Earth and on their own. I thought it gave the show an air of urgency and danger: if anything went wrong, they were basically screwed. One way ticket, but you know they had to come and all that rot. As soon as they started gating back to Earth, well, it made it a heck of a lot easier to cram in the crossovers, didn't it? :rolleyes: I predict the same thing will happen with SGU: there'll be some fire situation in the season finale and the end result will be, ta-dah! Contact with Earth. Roll out the red carpet for a steady stream of guest stars from SG-1 and Atlantis. Which will be sad and will mark the end of whatever shred of originality managed to cling to SGU.

Oh, and if the writers are so tired that they just keep churning out the same stories over and over? Maybe that's a hint that they should leave.

I basicly agree with all of this..

Maybe I should send my own Stargate series idea to the production people ? probably wont do any good though..

[ShadowMaat]

They don't look at unsolicited material. Some mail flunky just chucks it into the wastebin.

[leiasky]

I'll be encouraged if they bring in a few new writers to give the franchise a fresh perspective.

[Cautious Explorer]

Which is just sad. He even admits he doesn't like SG-1. And he says first season of Atlantis was good. I actually DIDN'T like the first season, and watching Beckett and Weir go WAS AMAZING writing. I mean, really, did you say in the first two season "Oh yea, I imagine that Weir will actually die"? Did it actually come up? Look at SG-1, did any of the General's die? THAT was new. And that shows the writers will take out main characters...which usually add's suspence to the show, because when something bad happens to a character you'll actually wonder if they can live or not. Which generally, is a GOOD thing. Sure, we'll all miss said character, but it made us mad...sad...cry...and made us sit at the edge of our seats when Atlantis was attacked and Weir was blown back. Didn't? Come on, now, didn't!?!

She doesn't like SG-1. So what? You didn't like the first season of SGA? :eek: I loved it. Different taste, that's all.

I thought killing Beckett and Weir was a terrible idea. Especially when TPTB did it with no real plan other than to shock people. They disrupted the whole cast chemistry before they even had an idea of who would be brought in as replacements (or so they've claimed). So they scrambled around and picked an actress they liked working with and an old favorite from another show without any regard to creating new and interesting characters that would actually fit well within the framework of Atlantis. (Come on, an underaged head doctor? A soldier/physicist who duplicated the talents of two lead characters and was unavailable for half of the season? What kind of planning is that?)

Character death is always upsetting if it happens to one of your favorites or if it unbalances the cast, but it's a lot easier to take if there's a clear and well thought out reason for bringing in someone else. That didn't happen in SGA. There was very little thought, if any, given to integrating new characters.



OK, why do you say it's "compromised by a desire to hang onto the past"?
Presumably TPTB wanted to create something new and different in SGA. They managed to do that for one season. Then they sacrficed the energy and story opportunities that being cut off and struggling to survive provided. Why? For easy access to the SGC and crossover opportunities? Suddenly we're back to the same old stuff: IOA interference, the Trust, Earth-based episodes, replicators. If you're going to make a new show, why cut short it's possibilities just to link it back to it's predecessor?


Because some of the episodes are similar to SG-1? These giys have written 300+ episodes, and you expect them to make brand spanking new ones every time? Honestly, they are up against a lot since there is no original story anymore. Why I say that? Because honestly, you can make any story like any other story in the past...you can. Think the Stargate is original? Not really, it's similar to Babylon 5 with their "jump gate". It's a gate that takes you to another destination. Thats basically what it is. Thats not close enough for ya? In Wing Commender, they use "Jump Drive" which is similar, if I understand, to using a wormhole. That sounds a whole lot like Stargate to me. Sure, no gate, but it does use a wormhole.
Since I didn't watch much of SG-1 at all, I wouldn't know most of the time if an SG-1 plot was being recycled, unless the characters stop to point it out as Carter did in Doppleganger. But even recycling certain elements from SG-1 stories tends to limit creativity IMO. The Goa'uld in Caldwell, the replicators, the Trust.....Why are they even necessary? It's a brand new galaxy, so run with it. Break out brand new villains, brand new situations, and please drop the Earth politics.

I think SadowMaat put it perfectly.


The point I'm trying to make is, there is no originality. So what writers do (since I am a writer, I've both known this and learned this at college) is they take an idea they know of (wormhole) and make it their own (well, a stargate on a planet, that humans can be connected to any planet. And well...lets have phone numbers for each planet. Ah ha! We got something new...) and thats what the SG-1/SGA creators did. Now weather or not they did it successfully everytime throughout the Stargate Franchise is a question to be debated, however to actually say, "They've already proven they aren't equipped to create something new and stick with it." Is just wrong.

What I meant was, they tried to create something new in SGA, it worked for a while and then they dropped it and turned back to their old favorite tricks from SG-1. Why would I expect anything different with SGU?


SGA is something new yet more of the same, I can agree to an extent. Something new because it's in a new galaxy, a new enemy, and even though it focuses on one team we do have Lourne's team which we see a lot, and the crew at SGA isn't really military, which effects the way things are run. And there are tons of new story concepts they created, can't think of many now...but for instance, the Shrine was a pretty good episode. The Deadlous Varitions was pretty cool and a new idea, and gave a new look at the PG because before we didn't know there was other life forms...but there could be, now.

TPTB copied themselves with The Shrine. It was a retelling of Tao of Rodney. Daedalous Variations was the team stuck on a ship -- would have been nice to actually get a look at some of the different realities, don't you think? Instead it was an alien boarding the Daedalous while Rodney worked to repair the drive. The ideas are there sometimes, and sometimes not, but TPTB don't seem to be carrying through on them anymore.



I am heartily sick of those who say, "Awww, those poor PTB! Look how many eps they've written! Can you honestly expect ALL of 'em to be original?" Frankly, yes, I do expect some originality. IT'S THEIR JOB to write new material instead of resting on their own laurels. And while there may be "nothing new under the sun" it doesn't mean that TPTB have to copy their own material. Ye gods! There are thousands of sources to draw from and hundreds of different ways to approach the "same old thing" that can make it SEEM new and interesting. But no. Instead there's this nagging sense of deja vu and you find yourself wondering (well, I find myself wondering) "haven't I seen this ep before?"

I liked Atlantis better when they were still cut off from Earth and on their own. I thought it gave the show an air of urgency and danger: if anything went wrong, they were basically screwed. One way ticket, but you know they had to come and all that rot. As soon as they started gating back to Earth, well, it made it a heck of a lot easier to cram in the crossovers, didn't it? :rolleyes: I predict the same thing will happen with SGU: there'll be some fire situation in the season finale and the end result will be, ta-dah! Contact with Earth. Roll out the red carpet for a steady stream of guest stars from SG-1 and Atlantis. Which will be sad and will mark the end of whatever shred of originality managed to cling to SGU.

Oh, and if the writers are so tired that they just keep churning out the same stories over and over? Maybe that's a hint that they should leave.

ITA. It'll be one year, if that, before Carter, Teal'c, or maybe a replicator or two will find their way to SGU.

If they're so convinced people are only watching for SG-1 and the old familiar aspects of Earth and the SGC, then why bother with a new set up at all?

[Blistna]

I am heartily sick of those who say, "Awww, those poor PTB! Look how many eps they've written! Can you honestly expect ALL of 'em to be original?" Frankly, yes, I do expect some originality. IT'S THEIR JOB to write new material instead of resting on their own laurels. And while there may be "nothing new under the sun" it doesn't mean that TPTB have to copy their own material. Ye gods! There are thousands of sources to draw from and hundreds of different ways to approach the "same old thing" that can make it SEEM new and interesting. But no. Instead there's this nagging sense of deja vu and you find yourself wondering (well, I find myself wondering) "haven't I seen this ep before?"

I liked Atlantis better when they were still cut off from Earth and on their own. I thought it gave the show an air of urgency and danger: if anything went wrong, they were basically screwed. One way ticket, but you know they had to come and all that rot. As soon as they started gating back to Earth, well, it made it a heck of a lot easier to cram in the crossovers, didn't it? :rolleyes: I predict the same thing will happen with SGU: there'll be some fire situation in the season finale and the end result will be, ta-dah! Contact with Earth. Roll out the red carpet for a steady stream of guest stars from SG-1 and Atlantis. Which will be sad and will mark the end of whatever shred of originality managed to cling to SGU.

Oh, and if the writers are so tired that they just keep churning out the same stories over and over? Maybe that's a hint that they should leave.

Well, write and see how easy it is. And honestly, originality doesn't exist, only in, using your own words, "...hundreds of different ways to approach the "same old thing" that can make it SEEM new and interesting."

Thats the idea. And i said in my arguement, here:


Now weather or not they did it successfully everytime throughout the Stargate Franchise is a question to be debated, however to actually say, "They've already proven they aren't equipped to create something new and stick with it." Is just wrong.

So, debate me on whether or not they made some original story lines. I believe they have, in fact, around 100 episodes of Atlantis, seeing about 70-80 of them, think that most of them were. I never really remember saying, "Wow...haven't I seen this before?" Not until I went here and you guys pointed some episodes out. But even then, it was still enjoyable.

And you know what? Maybe they should have stayed away from Earth longer, or forever. But it is human nature to be found, and it's very possible the characters themselves found a way out. What I mean by that? Watch Stanger Than Fiction and find out what I mean (best way to describe that the writer doesn't always make the calls in a story). So...if they didn't do whats "original" in your mind, then thats your opinion. But that portion of my arguement was about whgat originality is, and how to make something old new again. And, as I quoted myself, I said point blank that if they were successful or not is up to debate, however that doesn't mean they are capable of doing something new and fresh again. That doesn't mean they suck at writing. That doesn't mean they need to be replaced, because this is something all writers deal with, not just ones who write 300+ episodes. Read one author all the way through his books, all of them, and you'll find similarties all the time. I'll guarantee it.


I basicly agree with all of this..

Maybe I should send my own Stargate series idea to the production people ? probably wont do any good though..

it would be better to send in a synopses of your story to a producer of SG and have him read over it. But your right, probably wouldn't get heard. However, if you are looking on how to get your stuff looked at, go to this forum (http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=12). Its a good place to get answers and help in writing. It's where I learned, however they tend to be harsh at times. A lot of these people are professonials, so if your stuff is crap, they will tell ya.


I'll be encouraged if they bring in a few new writers to give the franchise a fresh perspective.

I wouldn't mind. :-) Always up for newbies...oh pick me! oh pick me!

[Blistna]

She doesn't like SG-1. So what? You didn't like the first season of SGA? :eek: I loved it. Different taste, that's all.

I thought killing Beckett and Weir was a terrible idea. Especially when TPTB did it with no real plan other than to shock people. They disrupted the whole cast chemistry before they even had an idea of who would be brought in as replacements (or so they've claimed). So they scrambled around and picked an actress they liked working with and an old favorite from another show without any regard to creating new and interesting characters that would actually fit well within the framework of Atlantis. (Come on, an underaged head doctor? A soldier/physicist who duplicated the talents of two lead characters and was unavailable for half of the season? What kind of planning is that?)

Character death is always upsetting if it happens to one of your favorites or if it unbalances the cast, but it's a lot easier to take if there's a clear and well thought out reason for bringing in someone else. That didn't happen in SGA. There was very little thought, if any, given to integrating new characters.


Presumably TPTB wanted to create something new and different in SGA. They managed to do that for one season. Then they sacrficed the energy and story opportunities that being cut off and struggling to survive provided. Why? For easy access to the SGC and crossover opportunities? Suddenly we're back to the same old stuff: IOA interference, the Trust, Earth-based episodes, replicators. If you're going to make a new show, why cut short it's possibilities just to link it back to it's predecessor?

Since I didn't watch much of SG-1 at all, I wouldn't know most of the time if an SG-1 plot was being recycled, unless the characters stop to point it out as Carter did in Doppleganger. But even recycling certain elements from SG-1 stories tends to limit creativity IMO. The Goa'uld in Caldwell, the replicators, the Trust.....Why are they even necessary? It's a brand new galaxy, so run with it. Break out brand new villains, brand new situations, and please drop the Earth politics.

I think SadowMaat put it perfectly.


What I meant was, they tried to create something new in SGA, it worked for a while and then they dropped it and turned back to their old favorite tricks from SG-1. Why would I expect anything different with SGU?


TPTB copied themselves with The Shrine. It was a retelling of Tao of Rodney. Daedalous Variations was the team stuck on a ship -- would have been nice to actually get a look at some of the different realities, don't you think? Instead it was an alien boarding the Daedalous while Rodney worked to repair the drive. The ideas are there sometimes, and sometimes not, but TPTB don't seem to be carrying through on them anymore.




ITA. It'll be one year, if that, before Carter, Teal'c, or maybe a replicator or two will find their way to SGU.

If they're so convinced people are only watching for SG-1 and the old familiar aspects of Earth and the SGC, then why bother with a new set up at all?


First off, I was actually angery yesturday, and when I read your post, maybe have tipped over a bit. Sorry if I offended you. :-) And I didn't know you were a girl, sorry.

Second off...here we go again.


She doesn't like SG-1. So what? You didn't like the first season of SGA? :eek: I loved it. Different taste, that's all.

Well, a lot of my post was about trying to show you that, at least to me, Atlantis was suppose to be a spin-off of a show. Generally, I don't watch a spin-off of a show I don't like, escpecially if the same writers are at the helm. Like Battlestar Galatica. I hated that show. Hated the mini-series. Couldn't even watch it, but there are tons of people who did connect with it. So of course I wouldn't watch "BSG: Razor" or anything affiliated with it. I liked Heroes and Lost, no time to watch them, though. And if there was a spin-off, yea, I'll watch it. See what I'm getting at? If you don't like Story A, don't expect to like Story B, because at some point the things you didn't like in the old series will drift into it. Just will.


I thought killing Beckett and Weir was a terrible idea. Especially when TPTB did it with no real plan other than to shock people. They disrupted the whole cast chemistry before they even had an idea of who would be brought in as replacements (or so they've claimed). So they scrambled around and picked an actress they liked working with and an old favorite from another show without any regard to creating new and interesting characters that would actually fit well within the framework of Atlantis. (Come on, an underaged head doctor? A soldier/physicist who duplicated the talents of two lead characters and was unavailable for half of the season? What kind of planning is that?)

I actually liked it. If you didn't, sorry. However, I never actually like Samantha in Atlantis, Woolsey is actually better (funny, because I never liked the idea of him being the leader...but I do!)...and Season Four is my fav. season yet! So...yea, like you said, different taste.


Presumably TPTB wanted to create something new and different in SGA. They managed to do that for one season. Then they sacrficed the energy and story opportunities that being cut off and struggling to survive provided. Why? For easy access to the SGC and crossover opportunities? Suddenly we're back to the same old stuff: IOA interference, the Trust, Earth-based episodes, replicators. If you're going to make a new show, why cut short it's possibilities just to link it back to it's predecessor?

Well, didn't know that :teyla:. I still wouldn't assume SGU is going to ever talk to Earth again...honestly, that's going to be hard to do...and to Explain. Then again, its going to be hard to explain why they can't...I imagine the show actually becoming darker then SG-1 and SGA and team members dying. But thst just me...


What I meant was, they tried to create something new in SGA, it worked for a while and then they dropped it and turned back to their old favorite tricks from SG-1. Why would I expect anything different with SGU?

Well, honestly, I never understood why you wanted to watch Atlantis in the first place if you never liked SG-1. So couldn't tell you why you should expect something different in SGU.


TPTB copied themselves with The Shrine. It was a retelling of Tao of Rodney. Daedalous Variations was the team stuck on a ship -- would have been nice to actually get a look at some of the different realities, don't you think? Instead it was an alien boarding the Daedalous while Rodney worked to repair the drive. The ideas are there sometimes, and sometimes not, but TPTB don't seem to be carrying through on them anymore.

If thats the one where he gets really smart, thats actually not coping the idea, but doing the opposent. I kinda liked the Shirne...some good character building and some funny shots. And it should a new side of Ronan and Rodney...it was really good. So i wouldn't say that, but then again...if you just see something happens to Rodney's brain and then it gets healed at the end...then yea, its the same. It's also the same as House when they deal with the brain, isn't? Ok, that was sarcasm, but you see what I'm getting at? No originailty anymore. Any thing can be broken down and said to be coping something else. Anything.

[leiasky]

I wouldn't mind. :-) Always up for newbies...oh pick me! oh pick me!

As much as I'd love writing for a series I, well, love, I'm more adept at writing features.

I've got a lot of respect for writers who can churn out 20+ television scripts per year. It's taken me 8 months to finish two feature length ones.

It's not easy to be a writer, and to collaberate, but its also good to balance what you as a writer want to do, and what the fans of your very successful show want to see.

[Cautious Explorer]

First off, I was actually angery yesturday, and when I read your post, maybe have tipped over a bit. Sorry if I offended you. :-) And I didn't know you were a girl, sorry.

That's okay. You can't tell from my name. It's just weird to be referred to as "he". :)



Well, a lot of my post was about trying to show you that, at least to me, Atlantis was suppose to be a spin-off of a show. Generally, I don't watch a spin-off of a show I don't like, escpecially if the same writers are at the helm. Like Battlestar Galatica. I hated that show. Hated the mini-series. Couldn't even watch it, but there are tons of people who did connect with it. So of course I wouldn't watch "BSG: Razor" or anything affiliated with it. I liked Heroes and Lost, no time to watch them, though. And if there was a spin-off, yea, I'll watch it. See what I'm getting at? If you don't like Story A, don't expect to like Story B, because at some point the things you didn't like in the old series will drift into it. Just will.

I came across SGA on its own, liked it, and stuck with it. To me it had little to do with Stargate except for the gate itself. I probably never would have given it a try at all if I hadn't stumbled across it. I watched Stargate now and then, thought it was alright, but wouldn't go out of my way to catch an episode. I looked at it as a show in its own right and thought TPTB would do that too. :S I've never watched another spin off that clung so tightly to the mother show before.



I actually liked it. If you didn't, sorry. However, I never actually like Samantha in Atlantis, Woolsey is actually better (funny, because I never liked the idea of him being the leader...but I do!)...and Season Four is my fav. season yet! So...yea, like you said, different taste.

I probably would have been fine with it if there had been more effort made to make the new characters interesting in their own right. Make it feel as if there's a real purpose for the switch. It felt more like TPTB created vacancies then set out to find a couple of actresses they liked on a personal level, threw them in and called it a day. Other than a few vague character traits -- experienced, geek, scientist Col. or inexperienced, geek, Dr. (both of whom Rodney McKay is attracted to) -- there's not much to them.



Well, didn't know that :teyla:. I still wouldn't assume SGU is going to ever talk to Earth again...honestly, that's going to be hard to do...and to Explain. Then again, its going to be hard to explain why they can't...I imagine the show actually becoming darker then SG-1 and SGA and team members dying. But thst just me...

I wouldn't have thought they'd make it a quick commute to Atlantis via the gate bridge. Just wait until they want to give Walter a cameo, or feature Carter or McKay. I'd love to be proven wrong on that one, by the way.



Well, honestly, I never understood why you wanted to watch Atlantis in the first place if you never liked SG-1. So couldn't tell you why you should expect something different in SGU.

Now I know better. That's why I have no plans to watch SGU. I'm afraid it will just turn into another disappoiontment for me.




If thats the one where he gets really smart, thats actually not coping the idea, but doing the opposent. I kinda liked the Shirne...some good character building and some funny shots. And it should a new side of Ronan and Rodney...it was really good. So i wouldn't say that, but then again...if you just see something happens to Rodney's brain and then it gets healed at the end...then yea, its the same. It's also the same as House when they deal with the brain, isn't? Ok, that was sarcasm, but you see what I'm getting at? No originailty anymore. Any thing can be broken down and said to be coping something else. Anything.

They follow the same pattern: McKay is affected by something that alters his brain; he becomes a kinder, gentler person; his friends rally around him; he hovers near death; and is miraculously saved in the end; only to revert back to his old self, none the wiser.

I see your point about House. Maybe that's why I quit watching after the first season. It did get predictable.

Everyone has a limit of what's acceptable repetition and what's not I guess. If it felt like TPTB were still trying to take a unique SGA twist on familiar themes, I'd be fine with it. I feel like TPTB have lost interest and are just tossing out what's quick and easy. (Not that I have any idea what goes on behind the scenes -- that's just how it feels to me)

[ShadowMaat]

Well, write and see how easy it is.
I do write, as a matter of fact. I just don't feel the need to proclaim it whenever I make judgments about the writing of others. "I'm a writer myself, so I can say..." sounds incredibly arrogant to me. ;)

And it isn't a case of writing being "easy." If it was easy, everyone would be doing it. ;) The only way for writing to be "easy", in my opinion, is to steal ideas (or harvest your own previous work) and don't put much effort into making it different the second (or third... or fourth) time around.


So, debate me on whether or not they made some original story lines. I believe they have, in fact, around 100 episodes of Atlantis, seeing about 70-80 of them, think that most of them were. I never really remember saying, "Wow...haven't I seen this before?" Not until I went here and you guys pointed some episodes out. But even then, it was still enjoyable.
SOME original storylines? Sure. But I also think there have been more than a few recycled plots and IMO the very make-up of the Atlantis team (and its similarity in character types) makes the recycling that much easier.


So...if they didn't do whats "original" in your mind, then thats your opinion.
Right. And I'm pretty sure I said it was my opinion. If not, I certainly meant to imply it.


And, as I quoted myself, I said point blank that if they were successful or not is up to debate, however that doesn't mean they are capable of doing something new and fresh again. That doesn't mean they suck at writing. That doesn't mean they need to be replaced, because this is something all writers deal with, not just ones who write 300+ episodes.
This is ALL a matter of debate. As far as I know that has never been in question. And I'm as within my rights to say that I think the writers are unoriginal and need replacing as you are of saying that they're still fresh and can keep going strong. It's all OPINION. It has all been STATED as opinion. I certainly don't expect Brad Wright to go, "OMG! Shadow thinks I need to replace my writers! I better go find a new staff!" :P Although if he did, I pray to my unholy gods that he tells Joe Mallozzi exactly who is responsible for his being fired. :D


Read one author all the way through his books, all of them, and you'll find similarties all the time. I'll guarantee it.
I've read many a complete series of books and while yes, there are similarities, I have rarely felt that an author was rewriting an earlier book. If I get to that point, I usually stop reading the series. And as I think I said before, it isn't a case of re-using material that I have a problem with as much as it's a case of re-using it without putting a fresh enough spin on it. IN MY OPINION the writers haven't been doing a good enough job of making old ideas seem fresh and different.


it would be better to send in a synopses of your story to a producer of SG and have him read over it. But your right, probably wouldn't get heard.
Umm... no, it pretty emphatically will NOT get looked at unless it's submitted through the proper channels (read: an agent) and then only if TPTB are looking for new material. Otherwise they are legally obligated NOT to look at random submissions from Joe Fan lest they inadvertently pick up an idea or two that shows up on TV and opens them to litigation issues. Even if the similarities are coincidental, if it's revealed that Producer X read Joe Fan's story idea Joe could try and sue the pants off them for "stealing" his material.

Unsolicted material winds up in a slush pile. And the slush pile could very likely end up in the recycle bin, materials unopened and/or unread.

[Pitry]

Which bit make sme inclined the most to dislike it?

The constant repeat of the word "edgy" whenever it is being referred to by people. The word is the key of starting my "distrust" mode.

[McgillionFan]

I'm really looking forword to it.

But if there's something that i'm sort of worried about it is the young audience part. How young are they thinking of or are they going to have a younger team ?

Not to sure if i'd like a younger team.

Other than that i'm looking forword to it.

The ship is going to be interesting to.

[Skydiver]

'edgy' kinda makes me pause too cause these guys don't do edgy. they do comfortable and predictable. they fall into ruts and like it there so they stay. I can't see them taking the chances like other shows do, like BSG and others.

they have their comfort zone and their formula and they stick with it.

[Pitry]

'edgy' kinda makes me pause too cause these guys don't do edgy. they do comfortable and predictable. they fall into ruts and like it there so they stay. I can't see them taking the chances like other shows do, like BSG and others.

they have their comfort zone and their formula and they stick with it.

TBH, it's not necessarily whether or not TPTB can write "edgy", as much as it's being usually a code-word for a lot of things I don't like about television. BSg is a good example - I don't enjoy it, no matter how much I tried watching it. A lot of the things I find not to my liking about it are what others refer to as "its edginess". And I mean everything from the target audience, through the story-telling methods to the whole pseudo-artistic look (lighting, shaky camera, camera angles etc).

I don't think they should necessarily stick to their comfort zone - I don't see any reason in having 2 exactly identical spin offs, TBH,a dn I think one of the problems with Atlantis is that it tried to be too much SG1 instead of finding its own identity, unlike, say, Doctor Who vs. Torchwood. When Torchwood was created, RTD didn't say, "I want everyone who watches DW to watch Torchwood", the way Stargate TPTB do - it was intentionally aimed at a different audience.
I think that's worth considering, at least.
The problem I find is following what's currently in fashion, but won't necessarily lead to better stories.

[Blistna]

I do write, as a matter of fact. I just don't feel the need to proclaim it whenever I make judgments about the writing of others. "I'm a writer myself, so I can say..." sounds incredibly arrogant to me. ;)


Interesting. Your a writer. ;-) I like that. But honestly, I am an arrogant person to an extent, especially when it comes to writing. I'm not the best, especially around published authors, but when it comes down to it, I'm a lot better then other writers I know who are around my age. Of course, from the good ones I do know around my age, I still have a lot of learning to do. ;-) Especially when it comes to writing scripts.



And it isn't a case of writing being "easy." If it was easy, everyone would be doing it. ;) The only way for writing to be "easy", in my opinion, is to steal ideas (or harvest your own previous work) and don't put much effort into making it different the second (or third... or fourth) time around.

Thats my point, though. I'll give one example. When I was a child I came up with a story called "White Knight". I had no idea at the time that it was like a story called "The Punisher". In fact, it's basically the Punisher with a knight and midevil and lord of the rings backdrop to it. Yep, that pretty much nails it. However, I didn't steal the idea. I didn't know it was there.

However, now that I realize that, I also realize that it's different in so many ways. In not only the environment, but the feel and the characters. The whole trilogy separates it from the others, as well. It's just different. Sure, you can walk away saying, "Haven't I seen this before" But you can also walk away saying "Wow, this was a new look at an old storyline". You can walk away from the story and be completely overwhelmed with how original it was, or how awesome it was...or just whatever.

Point is, just because there are recycle plots doesn't mean it wasn't original. lets take The Shrine and the Tao of Rodney. Tao of Rodent and The Shrine (ToR and TS) are similar in so many ways. Something is wrong with Rodney, for one. He apparently becomes nicer in both of them. And then he gets healed. Well, thats the basic outline of a lot of stories. Something is wrong with someone, they get kinder because they realize they are dying and they are a jerk, and the said person just got healed! Wow...thats in House, thats in Stargate, thats in a book called Obsessed by Ted Dekker (to an extent). Wow...all so boring, lets just stop watching/reading entertainment? No! Thats the thing...I can read a book called House by Ted Dekker and believe it to be a completely different horror story, even though others think it's complete crap. I can go away from The Matrix Revolutions and believe it's the best when someone else thinks it's no where near the original. We all perceive things different. We all notice different things. I believe The Shrine is a very different and unique episode then the ToR, however Cautious Explorer doesn't. Like I said before, debate me whether or not it's original (and not original as in its never been done before, thats really impossible, AIM or email or PM me if you want a more described opinion on why there is no original originality anymore, but I'm not going into that here) but please please don't call the writers incapable of doing something original. Don't use these "opinionated facts", pointing to these episodes and character profiles (which actually, thats a point in Stargate...they don't get away from that classic team profile. But when you look in the real world, NASA does a lot to make sure that every rocket mission into space they have a certain profile of personalities on every mission; call me stupid, but people would actually be screaming "Oh! Stargate isn't realistic...the army would have certain profiles and personalities for every team that goes through the Stargate" if they didn't have that. And to be frank, the first Atlantis team was different; sure they had a leader with a sense of humor, a smart person and and alien, but they didn't have a Daniel. They had a Ford. (which I hated Ford). Then they scrapped him, why, who knows? And added another alien. Which they aren't alien like Teal'c was, just not from Earth. But hey, they are in another galaxy and they are bound to make friends, some of those friends wished to join the team. Ronan is a lot like Teal'c, but different in a lot of different ways. Telya is no Teal'c; she's a wise person, a leader. So there you go...it's not exactly the same...and there are only TWO stargate shows...if they follow this path in a third series, then you have a point) saying it's not original and the writer can't write original material. Thats just a bunch of lies and you know it.


SOME original storylines? Sure. But I also think there have been more than a few recycled plots and IMO the very make-up of the Atlantis team (and its similarity in character types) makes the recycling that much easier.

:/ Look above.


Right. And I'm pretty sure I said it was my opinion. If not, I certainly meant to imply it.

My whole point is original is a matter of opinion! Another point is my opinion of someone doesn't make them a BAD WRITER and incapable of writing ORIGINAL material, although I myself may never like what said writer does, I don't have to say they are a BAD WRITER. Jeez.



This is ALL a matter of debate. As far as I know that has never been in question. And I'm as within my rights to say that I think the writers are unoriginal and need replacing as you are of saying that they're still fresh and can keep going strong. It's all OPINION. It has all been STATED as opinion. I certainly don't expect Brad Wright to go, "OMG! Shadow thinks I need to replace my writers! I better go find a new staff!" :P Although if he did, I pray to my unholy gods that he tells Joe Mallozzi exactly who is responsible for his being fired. :D

My only beef as I have stated before is that you can't call them incapable of writing original episodes by pointing to a few episodes, which at least here, only one person has done. Or two. But I'm not really counting myself here. Because in my mind, there is no bad writer. There is only a writer who isn't getting better. There is no such thing as a good writer, just one who happens to be both successful and liked among the literary crowd. Every writer can improve. Brad Wright can improve. The Atlantis team of writer can and are improving. Can you honestly say that Season Four wasn't an amazing season? I mean it won the People's Choice Award for god's sake...and I know a lot of people who DO like that season, so if you don't then your the minority. See? There is no bad writer and every writer is capable of improving. You can't deny that fact. So calling them "incapable of writing original material" is just a bunch of hocus pocus. And you know it! You said it yourself...your a writer. So then UNDERSTAND that much.



I've read many a complete series of books and while yes, there are similarities, I have rarely felt that an author was rewriting an earlier book. If I get to that point, I usually stop reading the series. And as I think I said before, it isn't a case of re-using material that I have a problem with as much as it's a case of re-using it without putting a fresh enough spin on it. IN MY OPINION the writers haven't been doing a good enough job of making old ideas seem fresh and different.

Well then why are you arguing with me? What you said there is completely your right. Whats not in your right (and in earnest, I know it wasn't you who said "the writers are incapable of writing original material" but thats what I have been arguing about THIS ENTIRE time) is to say the writers are incapable of writing original material. So it seems we both agree.

And I said it's in your right to say that!



Umm... no, it pretty emphatically will NOT get looked at unless it's submitted through the proper channels (read: an agent) and then only if TPTB are looking for new material. Otherwise they are legally obligated NOT to look at random submissions from Joe Fan lest they inadvertently pick up an idea or two that shows up on TV and opens them to litigation issues. Even if the similarities are coincidental, if it's revealed that Producer X read Joe Fan's story idea Joe could try and sue the pants off them for "stealing" his material.

Unsolicted material winds up in a slush pile. And the slush pile could very likely end up in the recycle bin, materials unopened and/or unread.[/QUOTE]

Okay then, I was wrong. But from what I do know, you never send a script or a book to a publisher/agent. You send a synopsis. Is that wrong? Then they will ASK for your book/script. Then they will REJECT or ACCEPT it. And not every publisher is like that; last time I checked (which has been a while) TOR accepts unsolicited material. It actually said that on the web site. However, I haven't checked in like five years...so more then likely, its changed. And when it comes to lookinf for an agent, you can go http://www.breakingin.net/agent_faq.htm here and find out more. However as it says...its hard to find someone who will accept something from a writer who hasn't be sold or produced yet.

[leiasky]

It's who you know in this business that gets your spec scripts read. The best place to go for agent representation is the WGA web site and look at their list of agents. Why the WGA? Because that's what J. Michael Straczynski (creator of Babylon 5) told me when I asked him. What else did he tell me? As a NEW writer in the industry, an agent won't want to read a treatment, they'll want to see the whole, completed script.

[mattyg1987]

Nothing is making me going to hate it. But I've got the feeling it will be let down as I am no doubt expecting too much from the show.

[Blistna]

It's who you know in this business that gets your spec scripts read. The best place to go for agent representation is the WGA web site and look at their list of agents. Why the WGA? Because that's what J. Michael Straczynski (creator of Babylon 5) told me when I asked him. What else did he tell me? As a NEW writer in the industry, an agent won't want to read a treatment, they'll want to see the whole, completed script.

Still, non of that has anything to ad at all with the subject. And I have admitted I was wrong, I haven't tried to submit of of my work yet because frankly, non of it's ready.

[ablevins425]

Has anyone thought about how or why we would even have any conflict with any species?

I mean if this ship has been traveling for millions of years, and has not been disabled or destroyed, why will it be all of the sudden we will have any contact or conflict with alien species?

[Flyboy]

Human error. As always.

"What does this device do?" Woops, goa'uld.

"Wonder what's in this village..." Woops, Wraith.

"Wonder if there are Ancients here..." Woops Ori.

"Wonder what's on this planet... oh no, a periscope looking weapon, they're hostile!" Woops mysterons.


I predict the same for SGU.

[ShadowMaat]

'edgy' kinda makes me pause too cause these guys don't do edgy. they do comfortable and predictable. they fall into ruts and like it there so they stay. I can't see them taking the chances like other shows do, like BSG and others.

they have their comfort zone and their formula and they stick with it.
"Edgy" for TPTB means stuff like the Rodney/Carson kiss- which was, of course, played off as a joke with extenuating circumstances so that no one would take it too seriously and risk thinking that- *gasp!* horror!- the whole "gay thing" was a suitable topic of storytelling.

"Edgy" in PTB-speak means leading us up to the edge of something... and then backing down and pretending it didn't happen. Or treating it as a joke.

[Flyboy]

"Edgy" for TPTB means stuff like the Rodney/Carson kiss- which was, of course, played off as a joke with extenuating circumstances so that no one would take it too seriously and risk thinking that- *gasp!* horror!- the whole "gay thing" was a suitable topic of storytelling.

"Edgy" in PTB-speak means leading us up to the edge of something... and then backing down and pretending it didn't happen. Or treating it as a joke.
And emo behaviour. Lots and lots of broody angsty stuff, without much in the way to CAUSE it.

[Skydiver]

'edgy' means to me, with these guys, experimenting half heartedly, chickening out half way through, letting the clencher parts die on the edit room floor after they've bragged publically about how great it'll be....then mocking those that call them on it. :)

we seriosly need new writers. If they want universe to have a shred of its own identity, they need new talent at the keyboard. we need 'young minds, fresh ideas' (with 'young' not necessarily meaning age young, but maybe new is a better word)

these guys don't seem to want to push themselves anymore. comfortable is easy adn easy is...easy. but easy is also predictible and trite and is why many fans just roll their eyes. 'familiarity breeds contempt', well a lot of us are VERY familiar with these writers. we know them and we know what they'll do. Heck, for some we can simply watch the first few scenes - without the credits - and know who wrote it because of how it's written. (like with whispers, as soon as i saw the 'omg, it's a team of girls!!!!' and hte hand bumb i was 'oh, joe wrote this didn't he?'

They need fresh cooks in the kitchen. if they dont' get them, universe is doomed.

[Flyboy]

'edgy' means to me, with these guys, experimenting half heartedly, chickening out half way through, letting the clencher parts die on the edit room floor after they've bragged publically about how great it'll be....then mocking those that call them on it. :)

we seriosly need new writers. If they want universe to have a shred of its own identity, they need new talent at the keyboard. we need 'young minds, fresh ideas' (with 'young' not necessarily meaning age young, but maybe new is a better word)

these guys don't seem to want to push themselves anymore. comfortable is easy adn easy is...easy. but easy is also predictible and trite and is why many fans just roll their eyes. 'familiarity breeds contempt', well a lot of us are VERY familiar with these writers. we know them and we know what they'll do. Heck, for some we can simply watch the first few scenes - without the credits - and know who wrote it because of how it's written. (like with whispers, as soon as i saw the 'omg, it's a team of girls!!!!' and hte hand bumb i was 'oh, joe wrote this didn't he?'

They need fresh cooks in the kitchen. if they dont' get them, universe is doomed.
Steven Moffat. For definite. And heck, how about Chris Carter.

[Skydiver]

even...hey, they want edgy, get some 'new' writers, as in NEW, new to the field. And then, shock of shocks, try LISTENING to them and letting them do their stuff, rather than 'yeah, we got senority, do it our way'

what's the good of bringing in new talent if your goal is simply to force that talent to conform to your ways??? why bother?

if universe wants its own identity, then start fresh from the ground up.

[Flyboy]

This is true. Universe has the potential to be great if handled properly. I mean, I think you know how sceptical I am, but I'm open to it. But frankly, we're going to need stuff in the realms of Farscape for them to make this idea work the way it should.

"Universe" is awfully ambitious. If the universe looks like Canadian forests and not lovely purple swirly things, I'll be very put out.

[Skydiver]

another advantqage of new writers - as in not a 'named' writer, and new cast....dude, newbies without lengthy reps come cheap. You cast a name, you hire chris Carter or JJ Abrhams or whomever, half you show's budget is gonna go to them.

why 'waste' your money on paying a name and stunt casting when you can instead take a bit of a risk, go with something without all the baggage of a lengthy resume and make something totally fresh and new.

[Flyboy]

Good point. Heck, scour the internet for a good fanfic writer, and snap him up for minimum wage. :P

[ShadowMaat]

If they want universe to have a shred of its own identity, they need new talent at the keyboard.
What on earth makes you think they want SGU to have a shred of its own identity?? Silly girl. :P



another advantqage of new writers - as in not a 'named' writer, and new cast....dude, newbies without lengthy reps come cheap. You cast a name, you hire chris Carter or JJ Abrhams or whomever, half you show's budget is gonna go to them.
The trick isn't to bring in a known name in the writing business, the trick is to find the next big name before s/he is discovered. SGU then becomes his/her/their signature piece and launches the show to previously unknown levels of cultdom and awesomeness.

[Skydiver]

yep.

but that's risky, and they don't like to take risks, tehy just stick with the safe and comfortable and then scratch their heads when fans yawn and change the channel

[ShadowMaat]

...they just stick with the safe and comfortable and then scratch their heads when fans yawn and change the channel

No, then they start pissing and moaning about the evils of Skiffy for failing to provide adequate promotion/advertisement and whinging about how they were told to do such-and-such by so-and-so and they can't deny so-and-so who signs their paychecks (or signs someone's paychecks somewhere up the line) and then they get out their little pocket calculators and graphs and charts in order to prove how ACTUALLY the show's ratings are TOTALLY higher than ever if you factor in X, Y, and Z and divide by four as illustrated here on Graph C with a more detailed breakdown of the shows winningness here on Chart B. :P

[Skydiver]

yeah, because it's ALWAYS someone else's fault.

if the show is a success, dude, aint they great?????

but if it's a dud, then well skiffy messed up, fans messed up, the olympics were on, dancing with the stars was on, the moon was out of alignment, i dunno, maybe the caterer saboutaged them, but it will NEVER be their fault if it fails

[MartianManhunter]

The 'younger audience' angle is what is making me hesitant to be excited and skeptical about the stories.

Could someone explain this to me a little more, they say they want to appeal to a younger audience, but why? Whats the point, i've been watching the show since I was 12, so who exactly are they tring to appeal to? Babies, because if so im so done???

[jelgate]

^The average age of a Statgate viewer is 47. They want to bring it down to something like 35.

[Skydiver]

they have yet to clearly define what 'appealing to a younger audience' truly means

[ShadowMaat]

they have yet to clearly define what 'appealing to a younger audience' truly means

Probably because they either don't know, themselves, or they're afraid that actually saying "we're gonna make a show full of young, hot kids having sex... IN SPACE!" will bring on the lynch mobs. :D

[Mitchell82]

From what I have heard thus far about Universe, nothing is making me inclined to hate it. I plan on giving it a fair shot, and hopefully, enjoying it. I refuse to judge it until I've actually seen it.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

[leiasky]

^The average age of a Statgate viewer is 47. They want to bring it down to something like 35.

From where does this statistic come?

[Pitry]

Human error. As always.

"What does this device do?" Woops, goa'uld.

"Wonder what's in this village..." Woops, Wraith.

"Wonder if there are Ancients here..." Woops Ori.

"Wonder what's on this planet... oh no, a periscope looking weapon, they're hostile!" Woops mysterons.


I predict the same for SGU.

At some point, you know, these things are no longer called 'human error' but instead 'criminal negligence' ;)

As for "appealling to the younger audience" - hell, I'm very interested in what it means. I'm 24. My favourite Stargate season is SG1's third.

[Col. Tomorian]

People know where I stand on this issue. Let me rephrase it in a way, which may present a new point of argument.

"Stargate SG-1" started off with the main premise of "Stargate" the movie. "Are we alone?" - "Who built the mysterious places on Earth?" - "What can they tell us about our selves?". When you pull the franchise even further away from the movie, you begin to loose the reasons why people like the show. "Stargate: Universe" is straying away from the roots of "Stargate". Heck. I think "Stargate: Atlantis" was so far away from the movie, and people started to go from diehard fans to casual fans. "Stargate" is all about here at home. How does humanity deal with not being alone? How does the greatest discovery on Earth change life? Unlike the Star Trek franchise, where humanbeings are motivated to explore the gallaxy, "Stargate" was all about uncovering secrets to the past. Once they cross over to the "Battelstar Galactica" style of writting, they take away that fun in which we felt from SG-1. We are ignoring the thrill of exploring other planets, and we are now embracing the dullness of character relationships. Eventually, the entire idea of growth and exploration are gone. Several shows have attempted the deep character development style of writting, and they all ended up getting canceled really quick. Instead of having several cool standalone episodes, we have a massive ongoing story about "Finding Our Way Home!". "Star Trek: Voyager" anyone? When "Star Trek: Voyager" had become stuck in repetition, the lack of progress, growth, and exploration, the ratings dropped quickly to the floor. As a result of bad ratings and almost no fanbase, the executives eneded up pulling the plug.

We must learn from science-fiction history. "Stargate: Universe" is great on paper, but it is horrible on the screen. This type of stuff should be left to novel writters. It is boring.

One of the faults I thought "Stargate: SG-1" had was the lack of exploring other places found on Earth. "Stargate" the movie opened up a door, which would have allowed the writters to expand into other Earthly societies. "Stargate: SG-1" wrapped those other societies around the Goul'd. I think that was a lack of creativity and vision. Other species besides the Gou'ld, Asgards, and Anchients could have been responsible for the other mysterious locations on Earth. Easter Island? Bermuda Triangle? Etc... Where was the expansion? Why didn't they try to define other anchient civilizations through newer species? Wasn't Atlantis a human society, which the Roman Empire and Egyptian civilizations visited on Earth?

Another problem with "Stargate: SG-1" (seasons 9-10), "Stargate: Atlantis", and "Stargate: Universe" is going to be a departure from "Life started here on Earth, and it was replanted to other locations.". According the "Stargate: SG-1" season 9-10, the Anchients are responsible for the transplantation of human civilization. We should have stayed true to that premise. Why? It makes the story more human. It makes humanities story more progressive and steady. It makes us feel as though we can accomplish something. Instead of humans being repopulated by a 'all powerful force', human exploration should have started with the "On step for man" theology.

"Stargate: Universe" lost my interest when it was explained. When they said, "Heavy character development, the ninth ceveron, and we are stuck on a ship." At that point in time, I realized that "Stargate" stopped being "Stargate".

[Cheystar]

I'm just confused. LOL Guess I'll wait to see what happens. But if they can't "Gate Off" the ship, how can they gate to other worlds, and how can they have cross-over guest stars that don't get stuck (I think it was BW that said something about the guest stars-could be wrong here, lol).

[leiasky]

I'm just confused. LOL Guess I'll wait to see what happens. But if they can't "Gate Off" the ship, how can they gate to other worlds, and how can they have cross-over guest stars that don't get stuck (I think it was BW that said something about the guest stars-could be wrong here, lol).

The ship may have transportation rings.

[leiasky]

"Life started here on Earth, and it was replanted to other locations.". According the "Stargate: SG-1" season 9-10, the Anchients are responsible for the transplantation of human civilization. We should have stayed true to that premise. Why? It makes the story more human. It makes humanities story more progressive and steady. It makes us feel as though we can accomplish something. Instead of humans being repopulated by a 'all powerful force', human exploration should have started with the "On step for man" theology.




Absolutely exactly how I feel and why, I think, the series worked for so very long.

[Col. Tomorian]

they have yet to clearly define what 'appealing to a younger audience' truly means
Episode 200. Hehehe... :cameron: