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Re-Introducing my Theories on Drones and Shield technology.

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    Re-Introducing my Theories on Drones and Shield technology.

    Shields:
    Basic shield physics:
    Like soap bubble in the air, a shield is a bubble.
    A shield, like a soap bubble, will absorb energy like a soap bubnle will warp to absorb water or a little but of pressure.
    Soap will be "depleted" by water, or whatever, until the bubble collapses.

    If a single point, or a large part is punctured suddenly, the entire bubble will catastrophically collapse.
    Pre-Anubis Goa'uld shields are very prone to this occurring.
    Anything that overwhelms a large portion of the shield suddenly, or a small portion near-instantly causes the entire shield to collapse almost instantly and without visual reaction.

    Goa'uld Style Shields:
    -Based on a rudimentary understanding of Ancient shields, and a lot of ingenuity.
    -These operate by creating a current chain along the outline you want the shield to take.
    -Goa'uld style shields are low power intensive, and operate by intense charges of shield ions and other energy types along the outline.
    -Like the picture of a wave of alternating current turned into Direct Current, the shield has momentary gaps.
    -It operates in waves.
    -This conserves power, protects the ship, but also makes them far more easily collapsed through firepower that overwhelms a large portion of the shield at once, or a single part nearly instantly.
    -Goa'uld shield capacitors draw a constant feed of energy from the power systems to maintain the energy waves.

    Goa’uld shield Classes:
    Priority: Heavy Shields.
    Examples:
    -Anubis’ Supership was equipped with the largest and most powerful form of Goa’uld shielding yet known.
    -Apophis’ Supership was equipped with the most powerful shielding known before Anubis’ type shields were implemented.
    These shields simply are far more effective at dispersing energy do to their size and power source.

    Prominent: Standard shields.
    Example:
    -Hat’tak shields.

    Prudent: Light Shields.
    Example:
    -Tel’tak shields.
    Very weak and vulnerable do to weak power source.
    Easily converted into a weak Goa'uld Cloak.




    Ancient style shields:
    -A solid wall of energy.
    -Ancient style shields are far more effective against any type of weapon than Goa'uld style shields.
    -Far more sophisticated, and far more complex, Ancient style shields create a solid shield wall around the area designated through field placement.
    -Asgard shields are based solely on their own devices and Ancient shields. –-Anubis enhanced Goa'uld shields with more advanced Ancient Style principles, drastically reducing the tendency to instantly collapse, and also just increasing its ability to disipate energy.
    -Ancient shields are far more power intensive in initial start up, but are nearly self-sustaining once activated through energy looping.
    -Asgard shields are far less advanced and sophisticated, and far less efficient requiring far less efficient electricity/shield energy conversion in the shield generators.
    -Ancient style shields draw a far larger amount of power when activated, but draw far less to sustain the bubble.
    -When stressed, energy is drawn to make up for the energy used to dissipate incoming weapons fire.
    -Being far more efficient, the shield bubble is generally able to hold as long as the generator can keep up with the draining, and the power source can keep up with the generator.
    -Ancient shields are far more fine-tuned and advanced than Asgard shields and can withstand a far more concentrated stream of energy than Asgard shields can.
    -This is why beam weapons pierce a hole in Asgard shields, when Asgard shields have been weakened, but don't pierce through weakening Ancient shields.
    -Ancient shields can still be instantly collapsed, but only when a large section of the energy bubble integrity itself is ripped apart.
    -An example of such is if a Stargate’s initial unstable vortex forms into a shield bubble, the energy of the shield will be absorbed, overwhelmed, and this will collapse the shield.
    -If the shield generator is undamaged, the shield will reform itself almost immediately.
    -All Ancient shields can easily be converted into a cloak.

    Ancient Derived Shields:
    Asgard Shields:
    -Asgard shields are based on thousands of years of improvements and research, both on their own, and through intense study of the Ancient Database.
    -Asgard shields operate and are designed on similar base principles as Ancient Shields.
    These shields are the only shields that as of yet compare to Ancient or Orii shields, and even then, only barely and only when powered by a ZPM.
    -Asgard shields use a large amount of energy and require a capacitor to store energy to activate the bubble.
    -They can be converted into cloaks, but they require far more energy to do so, and need far more modifications requiring energy to do so.

    Anubis’ Shields:
    -Anubis’ shields are basically Hat’tak shields modified with Ancient knowledge to dissipate incoming fire over a larger shield area than before.
    -This drastically reduced the propensity for the shield bubble to collapse when hit by an abnormally concentrated blast of weapons fire.
    -This allowed them to stand against Tolan and Asgard weaponry, which had before popped the bubble with ease.
    -Before, the shield was in energy capable of standing against those weapons, but failed rapidly because of the inefficiency, and instability of the shield current stabilization bubble to conduct the shield energy waves.
    -Anubis’ shield modifications themselves did not drastically increase the resilience of the shield, but rather the efficiency and stability of the bubble.
    -Though, Anubis’ knowledge did allow him to also modify the shield power systems to a far more efficient energy transfer rate, which did increase the power of the shield rather largely.

    Orii Shields:
    -While similar to Ancient technology, Orii technology is less advanced, and less refined.
    -The simple reason is this: The Orii developed differently, and when Ascended they became rusty in technology.
    -When the Orii decided to build ships, they decided to try and build ships easily capable of defeating a powerful, but far inferior foe.
    -They were designed to wipe out many weak foes… instead of numbers of powerful foes.
    -Their weapons were easily capable of taking on anyone for the most part.
    -The shields however posed problems. So they were not made to the level possible, but to the easiest and most efficiently constructed.
    -This made them far inferior to Ancient shields.
    -They can be pierced and collapsed by concentrated energy weapons fire to isolated areas of the energy bubble.
    -Asgard beam weapons, the most advanced form of Asgard weapons, when using ZPM as a power source are more than potent enough to concentrate enough sheer energy into a single area of the shield to cause it to loose stability and collapse.
    -Ancient shields are far more advanced and specifically designed to handle any possible threat, and to use the energy from the power source to the highest potential making them very difficult to pre-maturely collapse, be pierced by anything, or overwhelmed before the shield can restore lost energy from the very efficient low entropy buffer.
    -Ancient beam weapons, while easily able to tear holes in shields of most races, only overly strain the shield to the point of reducing its energy transfer efficiency causing to drain a little faster.
    -Orii shields, while certainly and easily the second most advanced shields ever to exist in known history, are inferior and capable of easily being pierced unto a sudden collaps

    Drones:

    Drones would operate through this method:

    The Drones have a large capacitor capacity and focus all their energy into one point on the targeted area.

    This incinerates the material in front of it and also overwhelms the part of the shield that it hits causing the shield to have virtually no effect. Much like a sowing needle through a Kevlar vest. Bullets are stopped, the needle is not.

    So with higher powered wall-like shields the Drones are potentially stoppable if the shield energy density is sufficient.

    This is an integrated set of theories.

    What do you think?

    #2
    There is no known evidence that the early Goa'uld shields are based on Ancient shielding, instead they are based on oscillating frequencies. As for the Ori there shields are weaker than Atlantis shield, probably because the Ori focused on religion and the Alterans on science. As for the drones, we have only seen them penetrate Goa'uld shields (Asgard Ancient and Traveler shields deflect them) so this leads to suggest that the drones matched frequencies. The shields of the Tel'tak are in my opinion structural integrity fields rather than realy defensive shield. Or they are for atmosphere containment. Also there is no evidence that Goa'uld shields can be converted in a cloak as puddle jumpers can. It might me just individual generators.

    Comment


      #3
      to correct alot of mistakes: asgard shields are asgard made and inspired. not ancient inspired.

      ori have powerfull shields. however, it was made to cope with all we could throw against it, not some new weapon designed to penetrate shields. drones, aurora's, jumpers, anything and everything we possess would be useless. a new development, like the asgard beams, would be effective. given some more time, the ori wouldve made new better shields to counter them. their beam weapon takes out everything in a few shots, of what we can toss against it. something, like AOT oddy, wasnt taken in the equasion.

      third, goauld stole alot from the ancients. anubis used ancient upgrades cause its the only tech he wouldve gotten otherwise as a goauld.

      drones use the same principle as the asgard beams: localized shield failure. its a thing thats the only thing capable of explaining shield penetration: in a local place, the shield is depleted, beyond its local replenishing capabilities. [ie, see it like a river, and superhot plasma of a million degrees sweeps across it: for a moment, all water evaporates in a large area, and during that time, the riverbed is dry. water rapidly replenishes, and the moment is short. for a shield, its sufficient time to let a weapon cut through. same for a drone. as opposed to just allowing it through, the shield fails in a local area, but the rest remains 100%. like firing an AP bullet instead of a normal one. instead of blowing up the whole armour of a tank, you make a local armor breach.

      Comment


        #4
        The gould theories sound about right, but i disagree about hte ancient/ori/asgard stuff. First, ancient shields are not nearly self sustaining, 1 ZPM powered atlantis shield was enough for only ~3333 years, holding just water, while a long time, considering the power of a ZPM, this doesnt show very great efficiency. Secondly weve only ever seen atlanntisis shields attacked, the ori being a completely different faction, and they probably woulndt usae the same shields for both a city and a warship. Lastly we have only ever seen ancient shields under attack on atlantis, which doesnt say much about their general shield level.

        For the asgard shields, i have no idea how you got that they'r not efficient. I bet our primitive wires on 303/304s transfer energy ineficiently,but thats all. Also you said asgard shields can withstand far less concentrated fire that ancient ones, the only example where this could be compared was with the asuran red beam, which didnt pierce Apollos shield. Also you said that Asgard shields can compare to ancient/ori only barely and powered by a zpm; well atlantisis shield doesnt even work without a zpm and we dont realy know how strong auroras shields are or what its powered by and the ori ships look like their powered by a zpm level power soucre too, so i'd say asgard shields, equiped on our primitively wired ships do much more than just "barely compare". You also said asgard shields use alot of energy to full the buffer and activate: the prometheus didnt have anything better that naquada generators, but its asgard shields were pretty damn good, wouldnt you say?
        People seem to think that asgard shields are much worse that the ancients, but it was said that asgard recovered a ancient database and learned alot from it, plus they fought the replicators for a long time, so i think that while possibly not as good as the ancients, asgard shields are pretty damn close.

        As for the ori, on the contrary i would bet that their tech, including shields, is better than the ancients. Simple reason being, they were designed by ascended being, which even not specialising on science, would have a far better understanding of physics and stuff than the preascention ancients.
        And i agree with killman, ori designed their ships to be effective against predicted threats.

        I realy like your gould shield analysis though


        Covering up scandals and keeping secrets is almost a racial trait.

        Isn't it funny how the word 'politics' is made up of the words 'poli' meaning 'many' in Latin, and 'tics' as in 'bloodsucking creatures’?

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by EternalAlteran View Post
          There is no known evidence that the early Goa'uld shields are based on Ancient shielding,
          The Goa'uld took all their tech from other races and built on those.

          The Ancients are the likeliest candidate.
          I know there is no 'evidence'.
          Its a TV show and this is my speculation.

          Take it at that and don't act like this is real science.

          instead they are based on oscillating frequencies.
          That would be the way they are formed... not what technological base they have.

          That's as illogical as saying:
          "The AK-47 isn't based on the German STG-44. Its based on smokeless powder! Duh!"

          Also there is no evidence that Goa'uld shields can be converted in a cloak as puddle jumpers can. It might me just individual generators.
          Its a TV show bud.
          Every cloaking device that we have seen explained have either used a shield as the base or shifted the person into as slightly separate dimension.
          It was a logical choice for explanation.
          Again this isn't reality. Stop acting like it is.
          And stop taking a TV show so absurdly seriously.
          Of course there is no 'evidence' as such.
          They have never explained Goa'uld cloaks like they have explained Ancient shields.

          Originally posted by thekillman View Post
          to correct alot of mistakes: asgard shields are asgard made and inspired. not ancient inspired.
          As the other guy likes to look for... have any 'Evidence' for that assertion?

          You say my theory of shields and Drones has many mistakes.
          Yet the first "mistake" you correct is merely your own oppinion.

          ori have powerfull shields. however, it was made to cope with all we could throw against it, not some new weapon designed to penetrate shields. drones, aurora's, jumpers, anything and everything we possess would be useless. a new development, like the asgard beams, would be effective. given some more time, the ori wouldve made new better shields to counter them. their beam weapon takes out everything in a few shots, of what we can toss against it. something, like AOT oddy, wasnt taken in the equasion.
          This is all pure assumption.

          I was proposing a collective theory.

          You are saying I made "mistakes"... when in reality those "mistakes" were merely having a different idea bout it than you do.

          third, goauld stole alot from the ancients. anubis used ancient upgrades cause its the only tech he wouldve gotten otherwise as a goauld.
          And this corrects what "mistake"?

          drones use the same principle as the asgard beams: localized shield failure. its a thing thats the only thing capable of explaining shield penetration: in a local place, the shield is depleted, beyond its local replenishing capabilities. [ie, see it like a river, and superhot plasma of a million degrees sweeps across it: for a moment, all water evaporates in a large area, and during that time, the riverbed is dry. water rapidly replenishes, and the moment is short. for a shield, its sufficient time to let a weapon cut through. same for a drone. as opposed to just allowing it through, the shield fails in a local area, but the rest remains 100%. like firing an AP bullet instead of a normal one. instead of blowing up the whole armour of a tank, you make a local armor breach.
          This is essentially what I said.

          You clearly didn't think about what I was saying much.

          The one difference is that I asserted that shields would collapse when a part of the bubble was seriously breached.
          Last edited by An-Alteran; 23 August 2008, 05:58 AM.

          Comment


            #6
            well it might be my opinion, but its rather logical. you say asgard shields are ancient based. yet, there is no evidence to this. you do forget that the repository holds ALL, i repeat ALL knowledge of the ancients. its so vast, and so complex, you cant just look under "shields" and use it for your benefit. "learning alot" is too vague to say "every advancement of the asgard is copied from the ancients". so asgard shields are asgard made. drone proofness, might be derived from study of a drone weapon. or found in that database. ok. but thats only logical. to get drone proof shields, you need to understand drones first. to get bulletproof vests, you need to understand the weapons used first.


            ori shields were made to protect against all we could throw against it. how else could the asgard create a weapon that could cut through it easily? not cause they are impenetrable walls of energy. looks more like a case of countering known weapons. unless the asgard magically recieved the knowledge of the beam weapons from the ancients

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by thekillman View Post
              well it might be my opinion, but its rather logical. you say asgard shields are ancient based. yet, there is no evidence to this. you do forget that the repository holds ALL, i repeat ALL knowledge of the ancients.
              They new the Ancients for a long time and intereacted with them and would have seen their shields.

              They had the repository for a very long time.
              Thousands of years.

              Are you saying the Asgard would not have had access to this information?

              you do forget that the repository holds ALL, i repeat ALL knowledge of the ancients.
              I never forgot this.

              you say asgard shields are ancient based. yet, there is no evidence to this.
              Its a TV show bud. Not a science experiment.



              its so vast, and so complex, you cant just look under "shields" and use it for your benefit. "learning alot" is too vague to say "every advancement of the asgard is copied from the ancients". so asgard shields are asgard made.
              Never said that. I said Ancient "inspired" shields.

              IE: They interacted with the Ancient tech and designs and based their early shields on those.

              Occassionally they would make a breakthrough on their own or learn something new from the repository and apply that.

              drone proofness, might be derived from study of a drone weapon. or found in that database. ok. but thats only logical.
              But actually getting shield tech is not?

              Come on. Quit the double standard.

              to get drone proof shields, you need to understand drones first. to get bulletproof vests, you need to understand the weapons used first.
              The old thick breastplates from pre-musket times were capable of blocking early musket balls even though they had never "studied" them.

              They just made them strong.

              ori shields were made to protect against all we could throw against it.
              How did they know what we could throw against it?

              how else could the asgard create a weapon that could cut through it easily?
              They detected that the Orii's own weapon's distabilized their own shield and designed weapons that would do the same thing.
              Apparently the flaw in Orii shields also exists in Aurora-type shields.

              Comment


                #8
                But actually getting shield tech is not?

                Come on. Quit the double standard
                ahem. there is a vast difference between correcting a flaw in your shield so a drone wont penetrate, and enhancing shields. drone proofness is a correction, not enhancement.

                The old thick breastplates from pre-musket times were capable of blocking early musket balls even though they had never "studied" them.
                there is a difference between a musket ball and a modern bullet. i meant, modern bulletproof vests against modern bullets, not a sheet of armour which happens to stop musket balls. cause thats how regular shields work. and its the very nature of armour.



                How did they know what we could throw against it?
                daniel: expert on ancients, knows stuff of asgard, member of SG1 for 8 years.
                vala: former goauld host.

                they're ascended beings. from context, they can calculate our rough power, the power of our shields, the power of goauld shields, exact figures of goauld weapons, rough estimate on how strong original asgard shields are, how strong asgard weapons are roughly. seeing as their minds would be an open book to the ori, they'd know pretty much what they need to defeat us.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by thekillman View Post
                  ahem. there is a vast difference between correcting a flaw in your shield so a drone wont penetrate, and enhancing shields. drone proofness is a correction, not enhancement.
                  That assumes the flaw is minor.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by thekillman View Post
                    ahem. there is a vast difference between correcting a flaw in your shield so a drone wont penetrate, and enhancing shields. drone proofness is a correction, not enhancement.
                    Depends on how drones work. The tech journal, where the official drone specs are, seems to imply that drones punch through shields by shier force, not exactly a "flaw" you can easily correct without changing the way shields work.

                    EDIT: heres the link
                    http://stargate.mgm.com/stills.php?s...&season=5#anc5


                    Covering up scandals and keeping secrets is almost a racial trait.

                    Isn't it funny how the word 'politics' is made up of the words 'poli' meaning 'many' in Latin, and 'tics' as in 'bloodsucking creatures’?

                    Comment


                      #11
                      the flaw is simple to correct. increase the shields frequency.


                      however. i realized that drone proof shields may also be a sideeffect of advanced and powerfull shields. so the flaw correction might not even exist, and all powerfull shields have natural drone immunity.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by thekillman View Post
                        the flaw is simple to correct. increase the shields frequency.


                        however. i realized that drone proof shields may also be a sideeffect of advanced and powerfull shields. so the flaw correction might not even exist, and all powerfull shields have natural drone immunity.
                        Well if the drone punches through by shier force, the frequency has nothing to do with anything. Its not like the drone uses the rings principle and slips through a whole, but rather concentrates alot of power in a single spot, like a beam weapon, to punch through,in which case the only possible "corection" is to increase shield density/intergrity, so in effect, make the shield strong enough that a small area would have enough strenght to deflect the drone.


                        Covering up scandals and keeping secrets is almost a racial trait.

                        Isn't it funny how the word 'politics' is made up of the words 'poli' meaning 'many' in Latin, and 'tics' as in 'bloodsucking creatures’?

                        Comment


                          #13
                          put simple: increase the speed of the energy flow of your shield, so it has faster local replensishing

                          Comment


                            #14
                            No shield is drone proof. Some shields are just more resistant. Saying the shields are drone proof implies drones have no effect. Drones still have significant impact on advanced shields like those of the Ori evidenced by the outpost defeating the Ori warship in the alternate reality. The fact drones do not breach the shields immediately does not mean the shield is immune to them.
                            Robert Jastrow (self-proclaimed agnostic): "For the scientist who has lived by his faith in the power of reason, the story ends like a bad dream. He has scaled the mountains of ignorance; he is about to conquer the highest peak; as he pulls himself over the final rock, he is greeted by a band of theologians who have been sitting there for centuries."

                            Comment


                              #15
                              yet you have bulletproof vests. now empty your p-90 on one.

                              Comment

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