AR Drive in Reality

[1LostFurling]

I am hoping a physics professional can help me out with this question:

Thesis: AR's are not possible without choice.

My thoughts are that alternative realities do not exist without someone/something "choosing" them into existence. For example, this morning I chose to have cereal for breakfast. However, the AR viewpoint in last weeks episode would say that there are AR's that have me eating an infinite number of different food options for breakfast. My point; while all those other potential options are available none except the one option I selected are valid (real) unless I select it.

Put another way, let's say Jack O'Neill goes to the bakery and a clerk presents him with the option for red or white frosting on a cake heh wishes to order. He selects white. This "choice" renders the red option null and void and no longer possible because he do not choose for it to be an option any longer. There is no AR automatically "born" that has Jack selecting the red frosting option. The red frosting option simply not a possibility.

My point being that reality is shaped by our choices instead of being a prerecorded set of all possibilities where the correct reality is injected into every situation depending on our real time decisions.

Sorry this all seems so "Matrix-esque".

Can someone explain how the Atlantis version of AR fits with current views on physics; in specific, if our current models allow for such alternate realities?

Thank you.

[jonty-comp]

This is why I'm leaning away from the any-choice-forks-a-reality idea, and more into the alternate timelines idea. Like in Continuum, you can change the future by making a different choice in the past. If you imagine it like a branching tree, with the highlighted path showing the choices you make, changing one of the early descisions completely alters the path, but it's still possible to restore the original.

I don't have my PhD in theoretical astrophysics though...yet!

[Faethon]

Read some quantum physics theory, u'll see that that it's a matter of perception, while you "study" an electron there is no way to know both it's state (like spin) and it's velocity/route at the same time. So while you know 1 of those the other can take infinite values.
I know it's a bit of a brain-slumer but take a few hours of your time and devote it to this, i'm sure you'll find it at least...interesting.

[wkw427]

If there were no seniant(sp) beings, there would be one reality.

poof
one person on earth appears into existance.
the one person, being only one person, cant effect himself and thus only one reality

but if there are two, then there is a possibility of conflict.
meaning, if A doesnt feel like saying "good morning" to B, an AR is formed.
from then and on, there are an infinite possiblilties for any scenarios.

[Myles]

If there were no seniant(sp) beings, there would be one reality.

poof
one person on earth appears into existance.
the one person, being only one person, cant effect himself and thus only one reality

but if there are two, then there is a possibility of conflict.
meaning, if A doesnt feel like saying "good morning" to B, an AR is formed.
from then and on, there are an infinite possiblilties for any scenarios.

Uhh, no.

You wouldn't need multiple sentiences to create alternate realties, you wouldn't even need life. In this universe the big bang expanded to what we see today, in an alternate universe matter might have clumped in a slightly different way and the galaxies/universe would be completely different.

An animal catches it's prey in one universe and doesn't in another. If there's different possible outcomes then there different universes where those outcomes occurred. Theoretically of course.

[1LostFurling]

Thanks for the responses. Although time travel and resulting paradoxes seem difficult to get one's head around; to me, this notion of alternative realities is more perplexing. For example, AR imples time travel AND choice. In other realities, a certain event may occur at a different place in time AND it may happen slightly different than in other realities.

However, I still am chiefly concerned with the "cause" of alternate realities. I believe some sort of cause and effect/thermodynamics concept must apply to "create" a different reality. An AR just simply doesn't exist, it is brought into existance by a cause. I feel the "cause" is a choice made by a sentient, self-aware being. It has to be sentient and self-aware because without these qualities a being cannot experience any reality. If a sentient, self-aware being has a menu of three choices to choose from and select option A, then options B & C never exist and therefore are not alternative realities.

This, however, is different than the concept of alternate universes and alternate dimensions. Maybe it's an issue of semantics but, could someone explain the basic difference between alternate realities, alternate universes and alternate dimensions? I believe these are all different concepts as theoretically explained by M-Theory.

[Andru10]

In quantum mechanics there is something called the Copenhagen Interpretation which is regarded as the best interpretation of quantum mechanics. A key feature of quantum mechanics is that the state of every particle is described by a wavefunction, which is a mathematical representation used to calculate the probability for it to be found in a location, or state of motion. The main element that defines the Copenhagen interpretation is wave function collapse which says that the act of measurement causes the calculated set of probabilities to "collapse" to the value defined by the measurement. Before the measurement the particle exist in all possible states simultaneously (a concept known as quantum superposition).
Another interpretation is Everett's Many-Worlds interpretation which replaces wave function collapse with quantum decoherence. The idea is that there is a paralel universe for each possible state of a particle. In our universe we measure a state in a paralel universe another state etc. The current version of this theory says that the paralel Universes can't exchange information in any way with each other however Everett sugested in his original interpretation that universes can communicate through quantum interference.
Paralel universes are also theorized by M-theory (the theory that is supposed to unite the 5 string theories) but there's a different approach. M-theory suggests that there are an infinite number of paralel universes (which can interact with each other) where anything is possible even the laws of physics are different while in the Many-Worlds interpretation, the paralel universes have the same laws of physics and are extremely simillar.
Paralel universes, alternate universes, alternate realities are synonymous.
Alternate dimensions are a different concept. We perceive three spatial dimensions and one temporal dimension. M-theory says there are 11 spatial dimensions but we only perceive 3 because the others are curled up at the subatomic level.
There is also another explanation for multiple dimensions here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JkxieS-6WuA .

[Aer'ki]

Sorry to burst your bubble, but in REALITY there are no such things as alternate realities or multiple universes.

The scientific reason for this is simple...but not simple to explain in words.

I will tell you the origin of these theories...mathematicians that erroneously believed that Math was the blueprint of the universe, and that anything that could be written in an equation actually existed. They didn't believe in exploration, they looked at math as their crystal ball and pronounced things that even common sense rebuked.

This is why some scientists claim to have mapped out the entire universe, or know the total amount of mass in the universe...this is not possible if you don't even know the exact number of stars in the MW...let alone how many planets are in the solar system. We have literally no clue what's in our own back yard, let alone elsewhere in the galaxy or the universe.

In Math, multiple dimensions are simply a variable in an equation and can be any number...but it is impossible to have more or less than 3 in reality. Star Trek hillariously demonstrated this when they had a 2d lifeform on one of their shows. It may look good on paper, but it just isn't possible in reality.

Scientists...real scientists... use math as a tool to measure reality. They take measurements and then do the calculations, which are by nature based on those measurements. Mathematicians never take measurements, it's all fanciful number crunching...like say what happens in a black hole? We have zero data on black holes because we receive no EM from them and EM is the only source of data we have for extra-solar bodies.

While AR makes for interesting episodes...I'm afraid it's purely fiction.

[striker7770]

1. not technically, you are forgetting about the scientific process, when a scientist wants to solve a problem, like finding the mass of the universe, they dont make up some random equation and say its right, they guesstimate. with reasonable precision. thats why its a hypothesis or a theory, not a fact or a law.

2. mathematics is used as a tool to describe the universe. kind of like the letters on a keyboard. they have no point in controlling the computer, but they allow you to see and use the actual keys.

3. "Mathematicians never take measurements, it's all fanciful number crunching...like say what happens in a black hole? We have zero data on black holes because we receive no EM from them and EM is the only source of data we have for extra-solar bodies."
four things to this, one black holes do release energy in the form of hawking radiation and radio waves, thats how we know there really are black holes. two, its all predicting what MIGHT be in the black hole. its not definate, its the step before exploring. Three, as i said before, math helps explain the universe. if you find the mass of a star, you put that number into an equation and you find an answer to a problem. thats how a theory starts.
four, math predicted that a black holes were out in space in Einsteins original relitiviaty equations. becuase of the singularity has infinate mass witch makes a lot of gravity.

4. i do agree with you on the star trek thing, there is some deviation between math in theory and math in real life. yes we know that 2dimensional creatures are impossible.

5. there is a possiblity that ar does work. my idea of alternate universes is every time an particle changes a state or movement or velocity, a universe is created with that peticular change. (if an electron passes through a material, and looses speed, there is an infinate amount of degrees its velocity can drop to. 20-19, 20-19.5, etc. etc. and each time that happens, there is a universe created with that peticular velocity change.

6. like someone said before, there are 11 dimensions that we know about. length, with, height, time, and the rest warped into a shape that holds a string on a sub-sub-sub-sub atomic scale.

7. if there is any lies, treason, wrong answers, or deviations to what i said. please tell me, i'm 15 and have a lot to learn.

[EternalAlteran]

Thanks for the responses. Although time travel and resulting paradoxes seem difficult to get one's head around; to me, this notion of alternative realities is more perplexing. For example, AR imples time travel AND choice. In other realities, a certain event may occur at a different place in time AND it may happen slightly different than in other realities.

However, I still am chiefly concerned with the "cause" of alternate realities. I believe some sort of cause and effect/thermodynamics concept must apply to "create" a different reality. An AR just simply doesn't exist, it is brought into existance by a cause. I feel the "cause" is a choice made by a sentient, self-aware being. It has to be sentient and self-aware because without these qualities a being cannot experience any reality. If a sentient, self-aware being has a menu of three choices to choose from and select option A, then options B & C never exist and therefore are not alternative realities.

This, however, is different than the concept of alternate universes and alternate dimensions. Maybe it's an issue of semantics but, could someone explain the basic difference between alternate realities, alternate universes and alternate dimensions? I believe these are all different concepts as theoretically explained by M-Theory.

Alternate dimensions are mostly mentioned in Stargate as dimension in our universe beyond time and space. In stargate those are the dimensions the crystal skull, Arthur's mantle use. Also the Sodan cloaking device partially uses one of these dimensions.

Alternate realities are said to be infinite in number. For each possibility there exist one. It can be a dimension with completly different laws of physics or one very similar to ours with just a few things different (for example someone's hair colour is different).

Alternate universes are mentioned in Stargate as alternate realities. Mostly these are realities shown in Stargate with a universe similar to ours, with the same planets and stars, only the things on the planets are different.

[Halzman]

I'll take a crack at this.

Your choice to eat cereal for breakfast is only half your choice. There are certain factors which forced you or made it probable that you were going to eat cereal. Firstly, it would depend on your desire to have cereal over other foods, then on the availability of it.

If you are someone who’s been having cereal for breakfast for years, then it is highly probable you will eat cereal again for breakfast for years. If however, you only sometimes eat cereal, then there’s a chance you might eat something else other then cereal. The first example rules out any other possibility of food, but this choice in itself was created by another event which created the higher probability of eating cereal for breakfast (perhaps, it was the only available food to you). Suppose that this single event was changed and instead, you only eat oatmeal for breakfast – this would create a point for an alternate reality to be created. The second example provides you with several choices of food to eat for breakfast. Suppose you have 3 choices of breakfast. Unless you picked one randomly while blindfolded, your choice is also going to be dependant on your ‘past experiences’ and which were more favorable or even recent events, such as how often have you have said food. Regardless, each of those choices has its own set of events that lead to choice (either directly or indirectly) – this also creates a point for alternative realities to be created.

Our realities are the same – our present reality/view is based on our past experiences, and how we handled our past is usually how we handle our future. This is what shapes a persons fate/destiny – or more simply our choices/actions. But as I’ve said, our realities aren’t only based on our choices, but also the actions of others (which is a result of there choices based on there past experiences). Everything is controllable to a certain degree, before you have to ascend to a higher level of the system in order to continue to try and control it. Ie: Individuals – Family; Families – Neighborhood; Neighborhoods – City; Cities – State; - States – Nation; – Nations – Continent; Continents – Planet; Planets – Solar System; Solar Systems – Galaxy; Galaxies – Universe; Universes - ???

The point is that every system has its own degree of choice but also its own degree of restraints (control) but you also have the element of opposing human wills. Control over any system is inherently impossible, since each system has its own set of ‘opposing wills’ – this creates friction. So the fact that something doesn’t happen or cant happen is a result of friction and vice versa, things are allowed to happen or can happen due to the lack of friction.

With the case of Jack and his choice for white frosting you would have to consider the reasons why he chose white. Perhaps he hates red, because of some past event/experience, in which case it would probably automatically null out the future possibilities of red being picked as anything. Unless a new event happens, which makes him like red (such as a new g/f loves the color red and he starts to ease up on it, or w/e) he will probably never stop hating it. But Jack can’t control what girl he meets and what color they like, well I mean he could but then the color red and his hatred for it would be controlling his reality. But what if red frosting was out of stock, or he picked up a cake with red frosting last time and wanted white, would that also automatically rule out the possibility of red being used?

Reality is shaped by our ability to control and manage friction within various systems that make up events in our lives. The idea however, that we are in complete control of our lives in false, and such control, in any type of system, is inherently impossible because of the complexity and scope of opposing wills. It is also because of the complexity and scope of opposing wills that gives rise to the existence of alternate realities. You have to also consider the fact that your current reality is based on a series of events that have already played out in a certain way, thus creating your current reality. If any event were to be changed, it could very well have a huge impact on how your current life would play out.

Here’s a personal example: I started smoking when I was 12 or so. My dad had an engineering friend, who would come over some weekend to do some work, and sometimes he would bring his son, who was only then I was and smoked. It was his influence that made me start. What if my dads friend never brought his son over? Would I still have not smoked? Or what if we go deeper and my dad never became friends with that person, would I still have not smoked? And each of those possibilities has its own series of events that made them play out the way they did. The phrase “everything happens for a reason” is an understatement.

And to include the matrix in this since you mentioned it: What if Neo never knew the question? Would he still have found out what the matrix is? The ‘real world’ in a sense is an alternate reality, and the matrix being Neo’s current reality. When he was freed, he was brought into the alternate reality of the real world. But had he not been freed, had he chosen to take the blue pill, or turn in Morpheus and help the agents – would it have made the real world not real? To him yes, but once he was freed he discovered that the real world existed, whether he originally believed in it or not.

As for your question on alternate universe, realities, dimensions, etc - there all essentially the same thing. The only thing I would say is different is alternate dimension, but im not even going to try and defend that one. As for alternate universe/realities - there each the same but the type of events or actions that creates the alternate w/e is what determines what type of alternate it is. If I go back in time and change the events of something I knew was going to happen a certain way (SG-1 helping in the rebellion) I create an alternate reality/timeline. If I use something like the AR drive, I go into an alternate universe, but if I change anything that was going to happen had I not shown up, then I create an alternate reality/timeline. Like I said, its all the same and equally confusing