Jonas Quinn/Corin Nemec Thunk/Discussion/Appreciation

[Lys]

I seem to remember (and please feel free to correct me) that some regret was expressed on the director's part for the end of Homecoming (on the DVD commentary) re: Jonas' sendoff scenes. I just attributed any awkwardness to both the writing and editing of the scene. I know I felt especially bad about how Jonas' departure was handled.

I think I remember that too. Though I'm not very sure I understood everything of what what said ( English not being my mother language ). I really didn't like that scene, it felt so cold, only Sam seemed sincere.
What I really didn't like is that it wasn't the last scene of the episode. I have nothing against Daniel's return, but he had almost every scene of Fallen dedicated to him, I thought Homecoming should have been devoted to Jonas and the last scene too.

[Seshat]

I think I remember that too. Though I'm not very sure I understood everything of what what said ( English not being my mother language ). I really didn't like that scene, it felt so cold, only Sam seemed sincere.
What I really didn't like is that it wasn't the last scene of the episode. I have nothing against Daniel's return, but he had almost every scene of Fallen dedicated to him, I thought Homecoming should have been devoted to Jonas and the last scene too.

I also thought more time should have been spent on Jonas' experience and feelings at going home in Homecoming, instead of shunting him off through the round swirly thing and everyone going immediately back to business as usual almost as though he'd never been there. And this comes from a Daniel devotee! I just felt Jonas' character deserved more credit. And I don't think that Fallout made up for it enough.

[Lys]

I also thought more time should have been spent on Jonas' experience and feelings at going home in Homecoming, instead of shunting him off through the round swirly thing and everyone going immediately back to business as usual almost as though he'd never been there. And this comes from a Daniel devotee! I just felt Jonas' character deserved more credit. And I don't think that Fallout made up for it enough.

Well, I'm not a big Daniel fan. I used to be but didn't like how he changed. But I'd like to know your feeling about something. One of the main complaints about Jonas was that he was a carbon copy of Daniel. I never had this feeling and had always thought that they were completely different. They just happened to serve the same role in SG1 and they shared the same office. That's why I think that a five man team would have been great, with Daniel being the archeologist /linguist and Jonas the diplomat. What do you think ?

[Seshat]

Well, I'm not a big Daniel fan. I used to be but didn't like how he changed. But I'd like to know your feeling about something. One of the main complaints about Jonas was that he was a carbon copy of Daniel. I never had this feeling and had always thought that they were completely different. They just happened to serve the same role in SG1 and they shared the same office. That's why I think that a five man team would have been great, with Daniel being the archeologist /linguist and Jonas the diplomat. What do you think ?

Oh, I NEVER in any way felt that Jonas was a Daniel copy. He was a distinct and different character who brought a terrifically fresh sensibility to the show. I felt, however, that perhaps the writers had some trouble making a real distinction between the two men. For example, I thought it was easy to see which of the season 6 episodes had originally been written with Daniel's character in mind, and then retrofitted for Jonas. I believed that this was a big mistake on the writers' part - not doing more character development for Jonas in the S6 scripts. Most of what I saw as real development came directly from what CN brought to the role, bless him.

As for a five-member team, I'm not sure how I feel. Certainly Jonas could have been brought in more often in later seasons in those situations where Daniel's participation was not as useful. I'm just not sure that the writers knew how to handle two supersmart male characters successfully.

This is also one of the reasons I believe that SG1 has only one smart female team member.

[Lys]

Oh, I NEVER in any way felt that Jonas was a Daniel copy. He was a distinct and different character who brought a terrifically fresh sensibility to the show. I felt, however, that perhaps the writers had some trouble making a real distinction between the two men. For example, I thought it was easy to see which of the season 6 episodes had originally been written with Daniel's character in mind, and then retrofitted for Jonas. I believed that this was a big mistake on the writers' part - not doing more character development for Jonas in the S6 scripts. Most of what I saw as real development came directly from what CN brought to the role, bless him.

As for a five-member team, I'm not sure how I feel. Certainly Jonas could have been brought in more often in later seasons in those situations where Daniel's participation was not as useful. I'm just not sure that the writers knew how to handle two supersmart male characters successfully.

This is also one of the reasons I believe that SG1 has only one smart female team member.

I'm sure you're thinking of Frozen and Cure. It's funny because that's really with these episodes that I saw the differences between them. Maybe because the script was so blatantly written for Daniel that it was easier for me to imagine how this one would have reacted in such situations. I too felt that the main character development for Jonas was brought by CN and not by the writers.

[Seshat]

I'm sure you're thinking of Frozen and Cure. It's funny because that's really with these episodes that I saw the differences between them. Maybe because the script was so blatantly written for Daniel that it was easier for me to imagine how this one would have reacted in such situations. I too felt that the main character development for Jonas was brought by CN and not by the writers.

Yes, those were EXACTLY the two episodes that I was thinking of when I responded to your post. I thought that these were both quite interesting eps, that still would have been better served by rewriting for Jonas' character's perspective instead of just "plugging him in" to the role. It never ceased to amaze me watching these eps just how much Colin was doing to bring a fresh spin to the role as written. Gotta love him for that.

[Lys]

Yes, those were EXACTLY the two episodes that I was thinking of when I responded to your post. I thought that these were both quite interesting eps, that still would have been better served by rewriting for Jonas' character's perspective instead of just "plugging him in" to the role. It never ceased to amaze me watching these eps just how much Colin was doing to bring a fresh spin to the role as written. Gotta love him for that.

There's something that comes to my mind regarding Cure. When they discovered who was really the Goa'uld queen, Jonas wanted them to tell the truth to the Tok'ra. I think that in his mind they couldn't lie, because lies are wrong. I assume Daniel would have had the relation between Earth and the Tok'ra instead of telling the truth or not. Little things that come to my mind when I'm thinking of them in the same situation.
And I've always wondered how Daniel would have reacted to Fifth in Unnatural Selection.

[ShadowMaat]

Jonas, for example, would never have been conceited enough to try and bully Ba'al's lo'taur into defecting despite all of the mounting evidence that said lo'taur was well and truly devoted to his god. He knows when to push a point, but he also knows when to back off and let his points grow on their own.

He's good at letting people figure things out for themselves. He gives them a nudge in the right direction and steps back. Daniel would just browbeat a person and harass them and beg and plead and lose his temper trying to prove that HE is right and everyone else is wrong.

[smurf]

I have to admit (whisper it quietly, or shout it loud) that Daniel has never been my favourite character precisely because of that.
There is a certain arrogance and strident moral certainty about Daniel that really puts me off him. I suppose that's why I always had O'Neill as my favourite, there's something a bit more grey area about him, and when I look at Jonas I always see a bit more of a darker O'Neill aspect to him.

Edit an explaination:
It's not that he won't lie (see Meridian), but he'll put his team before anything/one else.
If you put either O'Neill or Daniel in his position in Meridian, Daniel would probably have told the truth straight away, but I doubt Jack would've.

[Buc252]

I agree with you Lys. I , too, felt that it was out of character for Jack to have not bonded more with Jonas by that time and shown more concern for him. I don't know whether it was written that way in the scripts or just looked that way because of the editing in the season 6 eps.

I'd blame the writers or the editing, because Jack certainly seemed concerned about him in Prophecy, and even enough to take his place in Metamorphosis when they came to get Jonas. I think Jack *did* care for him, but he didn't quite know how to take him. He's not greatly demonstrative anyway.

And in that vein, I guess it didn't strike me as too bad because he didn't show it when Daniel was missing either. Heck, when he was dying, he could barely manage to admit that he'd grown to respect him. It's just not Jack's style to be demonstrative. I love him anyway.

Jack and Jonas are my two favorite guys - can you tell? <g>

[ShadowMaat]

Sorry, guys, but I still don't buy Jack ever really giving a rat's ass about Jonas, except maybe in Descent, and that was mostly just a bit of fun at the end. Grudging acceptance, maybe, and grudging concern, too- I got the feeling he showed up to check on Jonas in Prophecy only because it was expected of him.

In Metamorphosis, no one seemed to care. No one seemed to show overt concern for what had happened to him and no one asked if he wanted to be put back through Nirrti's machine even though they must have known that he'd been in it. I know it was to set up a later plot point, but they could at least have ASKED and had him turn down the offer or something. That point has ALWAYS galled me....

I think I said this in the Prophecy thread, but I'll repeat it here: the goodbye scene in Homecoming was wretched. As someone said, Sam was the only one who really seemed to care and while some of you may think Jack evinced some kind of warm emotion, I read it as Jack barely stopping himself from saying, "Don't let the iris hit ya in the ass on the way out!"

But then, I'll also be the first to admit that I have serious issues with the portrayal/behavior of Jack since the end of S5 and I think that starting in S6, there was a lot more of RDA than Jack showing up and in S6 in particular he seemed very angry and resentful most of the time. Jack, when he did appear, was likewise cold and distant and nowhere near his usual playful self and I don't care how much Daniel's "death" affected him, it was a bit much for me to accept.

But that's only my interpretation and I know just about everyone disagrees and/or sees things differently. I never had the basic reverence of RDA to build from and Jack was never one of my favorite characters, so I'm not as inclined to positive interpretation as others are. That's why I'm on the Jonas Thunk Thread instead of the one for Jack/RDA.

[Lys]

I didn't expect Jack to be best friend with Jonas. I did expect Jack to consider Jonas as a real member of his team. In my opinion, he choose him because Sam and Teal'c asked for him. After Descent, Jack completely forgot there was a fourth member in SG1. It's completely out of character and worse it endangers the team.
I too was completely shocked by the lack of concern for Jonas at the end of Metamorphosis. Many assumed it was one of this scenes off camera, but I don't buy it. A entire scene wasn't in need, just a bit of dialogue.
Later, we have in Forsaken Jack trusting Warrick at first sight and trusting him enough to give him back his weapon. How many times did Jonas had to ask him for his trust five minutes later before going into the wormhole ? Grrr !
I usually like Jack, but I didn't like this lack of respect he had for Jonas.

[ShadowMaat]

He chose Jonas so he wouldn't get stuck with a "damn Russian". Nothing more, nothing less, IMO. Only the fact that Sam and Teal'c had mentioned him made him a candidate. Picking someone THEY chose is much easier than doing the work himself to figure out who "deserves" to be on the team or learning that Jonas IS the best choice. He didn't care who it was as long as it wasn't a Russian. Jonas was the lesser of two evils... and it was probably a close call, at that.

[smurf]

Seeing as he was much friendlier to the Russian team leader in Metamorphosis than Jonas, I'd have said it was a very, very close call.

[Lys]

He chose Jonas so he wouldn't get stuck with a "damn Russian". Nothing more, nothing less, IMO. Only the fact that Sam and Teal'c had mentioned him made him a candidate. Picking someone THEY chose is much easier than doing the work himself to figure out who "deserves" to be on the team or learning that Jonas IS the best choice. He didn't care who it was as long as it wasn't a Russian. Jonas was the lesser of two evils... and it was probably a close call, at that.

I don't think Jack didn't care who it was. If so, what about Captain Hagmann and Captain Matheson who lasted only 2 hours. I think he didn't care as long as the fourth of the team wasn't russian and had the approval of Sam and Teal'c. Their opinions are still what's the most important for him in this choice. That's how I understand it. Jack had to pick a fourth because he was ordered by Hammond, he was not happy with this whoever this fourth happens to be. The lesser of two evils would be the one chosed by Sam and Teal'c.