What character should go? [Archive] - Page 6

Cautious Explorer

July 4th, 2008, 08:22 AM

I am glad, however, that she has been reduced to a recurring role rather than a full-time base commander because of the way she was utilized in season four. In season four Carter often parroted lines that Weir would have said, as if the writers were writing for the same character. The one difference being that everyone and their dog argued with what Weir said and no one ever argued with what Sam said (which I thought was weird, cause it really felt like the same stuff!).

Good point. With no one questioning anything she did or said, there was no dramatic reason for her to be there. Characters that are meant to be all things to all people are utterly boring IMO. Carter couldn't be questioned or criticized in any manner for fear of alienating the fans she was intended to bring over from SG-1, while McKay and Sheppard were already established as the decision-makers in their respective fields. She was completely unnecessary.

huh? Shep and Weir often had a different opinion but that's it. he didn't question Sam's orders because a) they think alike thus Shep often agreed with her and b) she was his boss

I don't think you understand Sheppard at all. In what way do Sheppard and Carter think alike? If you're alluding to the fact that they both have military training, that's pretty vague. Two people with similar training backgrounds can still have plenty of differences in opinion. I think it would have been more natural than not for Carter and Sheppard to disagree, and I would have liked to seen it. Sheppard as yes-man isn't interesting and I thought it somewhat stifled his character when Carter was around.

As to doing what his boss says, Sheppard's already demonstrated that he's not overly concerned with that if he doesn't think it's the right decision. And he never had problems arguing with his boss before.

It's too bad really. Maybe if Carter had been able to have friction with anyone at all in the expedition she could have been a credible addition.(Sure there was a moment of tension between her and Ronon in Reunion, but it was swept under the rug far too quickly -- it was totally unrealistic) Carter had few emotional settings: calm, amiable or mildly upset. They could have saved time and money and slapped a mannequin in the head office.

Rocky89

July 4th, 2008, 09:32 AM

First off, this has nothing to do with leadership skills persay. This has to do with needed and redundant skill sets. Woolsey and Weir have diplommatic and political skills. Carter has some leadership skills, but mainly military strategic and scientific skills and expertise. Now, as I said, what was the point for Carter to be in Atlantis, if Sheppard and Mckay already had those skills? I think it would be obvious that Carter's lack of a presence in season 4 would be proof that she was merely there to 1) draw in SG-1 fans, and 2) give the actress something else to do in the Stargate Franchise. Carter is first and foremost a scientist, and then a soldier. She really has no diplomatic skills. Woolsey was primarily a critic- that's what his job was. Don't criticize him for pointing out the deficiencies in the SGC. Woolsey seems to have great administrative skills- which is what Atlantis's leader should have.
Weir's "dullness" is a result of lack of continuity. She was established as a character who had diplomatic and political skills, brokering over a dozen treaties. Now, Weir was not there to oversee the military operations, or to make strategic decisions. That was Col. Sumner's job ( I admit, Sheppard is not the best at it). Weir's diplomatic skills should have gone along way in establishing her as a capable leader. However, the writers somehow forgot about that. SO, don't criticize Weir either. That was the writer's mistake. And, for the record, Carter is not the most important person in Atlantis. Get that straight. Also, I think it was Weir who established a bond between the Atlantis cast members, NOT Carter. Please do at least try to separate the events in SGA from those in SG-1.

And a reply to everyone else

You know, I realized something, Carter, Weir and every other Stargate character/couple all have anti-threads, now that Woolsey is joining the cast, he'll most likely have one too. I wonder how that'll turn out.

Well, good-bye people, I'm going home.

(((SAMANDA)))

A home to AT/SC fans, and admires everywhere!!! :P

Arica12

July 4th, 2008, 09:40 AM

And a reply to everyone else

You know, I realized something, Carter, Weir and every other Stargate character/couple all have anti-threads, now that Woolsey is joining the cast, he'll most likely have one too. I wonder how that'll turn out.

Well I guess that depends very much on how good a character he is, if he turns out to be great then i imagine it will die a natural death, if he's rotten then it'll still be going strong this time next year!

Personally I'm on the fence over Woolsey, it could go very very well......or it could be a utter disaster depending on how they play it. My fear is that the character has been seen too much, is already too established to suddenly be a compelling and competent leader but hey it might be good.

At least he can't be any worse than Keller

Jumper_One

July 4th, 2008, 11:51 AM

This is one of the times when I really regret that this is a PG-rated forum and I can't explain how Keller's 'qualification' and 'skill' would in fact kill Sheppard had Doppelganger happened in real life in as great a detail as I would like to. Suffice to say that noone deserves to die as slowly and painfully as this. Not even a criminal like Sheppard

I was talking about Sam ;)

Good point. With no one questioning anything she did or said, there was no dramatic reason for her to be there.

there were plenty of other reasons

Characters that are meant to be all things to all people are utterly boring IMO.

who are you talking about? obviously Sam but there has to be someone else

Carter couldn't be questioned or criticized in any manner for fear of alienating the fans she was intended to bring over from SG-1, while McKay and Sheppard were already established as the decision-makers in their respective fields.

Sam was base commander, she had to approve

She was completely unnecessary.

no she wasn't

I don't think you understand Sheppard at all.

and you do?

In what way do Sheppard and Carter think alike?

well...

If you're alluding to the fact that they both have military training,

yup I do

that's pretty vague.

really? how so?

Two people with similar training backgrounds can still have plenty of differences in opinion.

sure but this wasn't the case in s4

I think it would have been more natural than not for Carter and Sheppard to disagree,

I disagree. however...

and I would have liked to seen it.

me too. I think we'd have seen some conflict in s5

Sheppard as yes-man isn't interesting and I thought it somewhat stifled his character when Carter was around.

once again I'll have to disagree

As to doing what his boss says, Sheppard's already demonstrated that he's not overly concerned with that if he doesn't think it's the right decision. And he never had problems arguing with his boss before.

true but he didn't need to argue or disagree with Sam since he often came to the same conclusion(s). also Weir was a civilian and Shep was in charge of the military while she was administrator. this was Sam's job in s4

It's too bad really. Maybe if Carter had been able to have friction with anyone at all in the expedition she could have been a credible addition.

Reunion, DG, TR, The Seer, BAMSR, Midway and TLM could've been very different if Sam hadn't been there

(Sure there was a moment of tension between her and Ronon in Reunion, but it was swept under the rug far too quickly -- it was totally unrealistic)

how so? it made sense that Ronon didn't like her imo

Carter had few emotional settings: calm, amiable or mildly upset. They could have saved time and money and slapped a mannequin in the head office.

:rolleyes:

hedwig

July 4th, 2008, 12:04 PM

Linzi

July 4th, 2008, 12:36 PM

Sorry to be a bit dense here:o ... but how is Sheppard a criminal?
You're not dense at all. In the odd person's opinion he is. However, it IS just opinion, there are no concrete facts to support that. IE, as much as some might wish, there is no solid evidence, certainly not as far as the US military is concerned. :)

I find this discussion on Carter most interesting. I like Carter. Liked her on Atlantis very much. However, I found myself feeling she was underutilised. Some folks say TPTB ignore the fandom. I say, in this instance, they were took too much notice, and were so careful not to tread on the toes of existing SGA characters, that Carter wasn't given the material she deserved - certainly in terms of leadership skills. I understand and applaud the sentiment. However, I would say, if you're going to go to the bother of bringing a new character over to SGA, then please use her to her full advantage :)

starfox

July 4th, 2008, 12:52 PM

You're not dense at all. In the odd person's opinion he is. However, it IS just opinion, there are no concrete facts to support that. IE, as much as some might wish, there is no solid evidence, certainly not as far as the US military is concerned. :)

I find this discussion on Carter most interesting. I like Carter. Liked her on Atlantis very much. However, I found myself feeling she was underutilised. Some folks say TPTB ignore the fandom. I say, in this instance, they were took too much notice, and were so careful not to tread on the toes of existing SGA characters, that Carter wasn't given the material she deserved - certainly in terms of leadership skills. I understand and applaud the sentiment. However, I would say, if you're going to go to the bother of bringing a new character over to SGA, then please use her to her full advantage :)

See, I felt exactly the opposite. Because of the Carter/McKay antagonism on SG-1, I was a bit afraid that utilizing her full scientific skills would undermine McKay's authority (which is one few dignities he's consistently allowed). I also didn't want to see her out-think Sheppard, mainly because so much of Atlantis has been about their adaptability and how they have to do things differently than the folks back on Earth expect them to. For me, having Carter underutilized was a waste of the character, but better to be underutilized than to be a girl wonder.

Which is why I think it's better to take mildly antagonistic characters from one show to another than to take the leads. McKay grew into a character of his own on Atlantis - one who is, on occasion, relegated to the role of comic relief, but also someone who occasionally gets to be the hero. Woolsey will similarly have a chance to grow on Atlantis. With Sam, there wasn't much chance of that; she'd been the hero already.

No, I don't have strong feelings about spin-offs and x-overs at all.

Linzi

July 4th, 2008, 01:02 PM

See, I felt exactly the opposite. Because of the Carter/McKay antagonism on SG-1, I was a bit afraid that utilizing her full scientific skills would undermine McKay's authority (which is one few dignities he's consistently allowed). I also didn't want to see her out-think Sheppard, mainly because so much of Atlantis has been about their adaptability and how they have to do things differently than the folks back on Earth expect them to. For me, having Carter underutilized was a waste of the character, but better to be underutilized than to be a girl wonder.

Which is why I think it's better to take mildly antagonistic characters from one show to another than to take the leads. McKay grew into a character of his own on Atlantis - one who is, on occasion, relegated to the role of comic relief, but also someone who occasionally gets to be the hero. Woolsey will similarly have a chance to grow on Atlantis. With Sam, there wasn't much chance of that; she'd been the hero already.

No, I don't have strong feelings about spin-offs and x-overs at all.
Well, in all fairness, I shared your concerns initially too - both in terms of Shep and McKay being outshone. However, I think a balance could have been achieved. As primarily a SGA fan, I was VERY concerned how Carter would fit into the show. I'm a big Shep and McKay fan, and unlike many, never felt McKay and Carter had a great chemistry. But, I found myself thinking TPTB took it all too far the other way. That is to say, Carter wasn't allowed to shine enough. I found myself WANTING to see more of her, and wanting to see her show off her skills. She easily could delegate whilst still having more input in both science AND military situation, IMO. :)

I have to confess to being really surprised that I felt that way, but in all honesty I did.

Cautious Explorer

July 4th, 2008, 02:00 PM

who are you talking about? obviously Sam but there has to be someone else

Why?

Sam was base commander, she had to approve

And it was so exciting to watch. Too bad they didn't give us lots of scenes of her signing documents too. Oh well, maybe with Woolsey. :cool:

no she wasn't
To me she was.

and you do?
Better than you I think.

well...

Well said. Thanks for clarifying. :)

sure but this wasn't the case in s4

Too bad. Wouldn't have been so boring.

me too. I think we'd have seen some conflict in s5

Really? Based on how well they showed it in S4?

true but he didn't need to argue or disagree with Sam since he often came to the same conclusion(s). also Weir was a civilian and Shep was in charge of the military while she was administrator. this was Sam's job in s4

Yes. And I thought that was a huge mistake. If Carter and Sheppard agreed all the time and Carter essentially took over the job he held while Weir was in charge, then one of the characters was redundant -- and it sure wasn't Sheppard!

Reunion, DG, TR, The Seer, BAMSR, Midway and TLM could've been very different if Sam hadn't been there

Yep. Probably better.

how so? it made sense that Ronon didn't like her imo

I agreee. It sure did.

Jumper_One

July 4th, 2008, 03:18 PM

Why?

because you mentioned characters

And it was so exciting to watch.

yes it was :)

Too bad they didn't give us lots of scenes of her signing documents too. Oh well, maybe with Woolsey. :cool:

maybe

To me she was.

we'll just have to agree to disagree

Better than you I think.

err yeah whatever

Too bad. Wouldn't have been so boring.

it wasn't boring imo but it could've been more interesting

Really? Based on how well they showed it in S4?

no. s4 basically introduced the character. s5 would've been different imo

Yes. And I thought that was a huge mistake. If Carter and Sheppard agreed all the time and Carter essentially took over the job he held while Weir was in charge, then one of the characters was redundant -- and it sure wasn't Sheppard!

yes Sam replaced Weir which meant that in addition to the administrator job she was also in charge of the military (Shep's job during s1-3). Sam wasn't redundant. someone needs to be base commander and it sure couldn't have been Shep while he was still going off-world

Yep. Probably better.

um no not really since ie the crystalline entity would've been able to kill everyone on Atlantis

I agreee. It sure did.

yup

Reiko

July 4th, 2008, 04:37 PM

Why does a character have to go (besides Carter)? Atlantis has lost too many already.

» That's the point. Besides, given that they got rid of two good characters, would it hurt to get rid of one or two bad ones? ;)

This is one of the times when I really regret that this is a PG-rated forum and I can't explain how Keller's 'qualification' and 'skill' would in fact kill Sheppard had Doppelganger happened in real life in as great a detail as I would like to.

» Which part isn't PG ... the detailed process of killing Sheppard or Keller's 'qualification' and 'skill'? :P

They could have saved time and money and slapped a mannequin in the head office.

» Or better yet, kept Weir. :weir::)

No, I don't have strong feelings about spin-offs and x-overs at all.

» I hate the crossovers between the two shows as well since it's become very ... excessive. At least the Stupid Space Bridge of Dumassity is gone now.

Jumper_One

July 4th, 2008, 04:43 PM

» That's the point. Besides, given that they got rid of two good characters, would it hurt to get rid of one or two bad ones? ;)

nope just one character, the other one will be back ;)

Ltcolshepjumper

July 4th, 2008, 05:44 PM

Well, in all fairness, I shared your concerns initially too - both in terms of Shep and McKay being outshone. However, I think a balance could have been achieved. As primarily a SGA fan, I was VERY concerned how Carter would fit into the show. I'm a big Shep and McKay fan, and unlike many, never felt McKay and Carter had a great chemistry. But, I found myself thinking TPTB took it all too far the other way. That is to say, Carter wasn't allowed to shine enough. I found myself WANTING to see more of her, and wanting to see her show off her skills. She easily could delegate whilst still having more input in both science AND military situation, IMO. :)

I have to confess to being really surprised that I felt that way, but in all honesty I did.

Here is how I look at it. Carter had 10 years to shine and develop as a character. In those 10 years, she also gained a lot of experience. Now, jump over to SGA. Please do tell me what percentage of her experience was utilized. Better yet, what percentage of her experience was needed. SGA did just fine for 3 years without her. The mere knowledge of mission reports and Mckay and Sheppard's abilities were good enough to help them survive. Frankly, she wasn't needed, as a character or an actress. Weir, Shepaprd, and Mckay were just fine. I won't even mention Keller and Beckett.

And, just to point out, I never got the [ ] where Carter was considered a fresh, new character.

hedwig

July 4th, 2008, 05:46 PM

I find this discussion on Carter most interesting. I like Carter. Liked her on Atlantis very much. However, I found myself feeling she was underutilised. Some folks say TPTB ignore the fandom. I say, in this instance, they were took too much notice, and were so careful not to tread on the toes of existing SGA characters, that Carter wasn't given the material she deserved - certainly in terms of leadership skills. I understand and applaud the sentiment. However, I would say, if you're going to go to the bother of bringing a new character over to SGA, then please use her to her full advantage :)

I heartily agree. I've always liked the Sam Carter character and was delighted when she went to Atlantis. But I too feel she was underutilized. I agree with everything else you've said, too.:D I'm happy for AT that she's getting to go on to her own show, but am sad she's leaving Atlantis. I think maybe they might have given her more to do in Season 5, but I could be mistaken.

Ltcolshepjumper

July 4th, 2008, 05:49 PM

I heartily agree. I've always liked the Sam Carter character and was delighted when she went to Atlantis. But I too feel she was underutilized. I agree with everything else you've said, too.:D I'm happy for AT that she's getting to go on to her own show, but am sad she's leaving Atlantis. I think maybe they might have given her more to do in Season 5, but I could be mistaken.

I have nothing against the character, much less the actress, but honestly, her place has always been SG-1. That's where she is used best. Carter never had to be in a leadership position to shine.

GateofDOOM

July 4th, 2008, 06:09 PM

Can I just say that in the first half of season four I reeeeeaally wanted Carter to pop out with some techno-babble and have her and McKay go off and on about something together.
Not to have her outshine him or argue with him, just to have a funny techno-babbly excited moment.

Everytime McKay opened his mouth in her presence to deliver a report I was thinking "Cue...techno-babble off!"
And then by the time they actually did it (In BAMSR), I was annoyed and thinking, (add snark) " What's this HM? In real life she'd have forgotten everything at this point!"

Oh and that scene wasn't really played for humour either. I had to wait even longer for THAT. (Trio I think?)

Heh.

After reading comments about Carter on this board though it now seems like this is the only way TPTB could have done it. If Carter had come in all techno guns a blazing it might have alienated people who were more fond of Atlantis then SG-1.

Well! Now I have a different perspective on things. So thanks all, even if I wish they'd still done it my way, at least it won't bother me so much now. :P

Yes, I get bothered by weird things.

stclare

July 4th, 2008, 10:28 PM

Can I just say that in the first half of season four I reeeeeaally wanted Carter to pop out with some techno-babble and have her and McKay go off and on about something together.
Not to have her outshine him or argue with him, just to have a funny techno-babbly excited moment.

Everytime McKay opened his mouth in her presence to deliver a report I was thinking "Cue...techno-babble off!"
And then by the time they actually did it (In BAMSR), I was annoyed and thinking, (add snark) " What's this HM? In real life she'd have forgotten everything at this point!"

Oh and that scene wasn't really played for humour either. I had to wait even longer for THAT. (Trio I think?)

Heh.

After reading comments about Carter on this board though it now seems like this is the only way TPTB could have done it. If Carter had come in all techno guns a blazing it might have alienated people who were more fond of Atlantis then SG-1.
Well! Now I have a different perspective on things. So thanks all, even if I wish they'd still done it my way, at least it won't bother me so much now. :P

Yes, I get bothered by weird things.

Yes it certainly would have stopped me watching. I dont like SG1, at all. I find the crossovers beyond tedious, in the main.
I was pleasently surprised though that Carter was not pushed front and centre. i could totaly ignore her being there most of the time.
It certainly didnt feel like an improvement to me. so im glad shes only going to be in a couple of eps. that plus the other ones;

daniel and woolsey

is more than enough SG1 crossover for me, for one season.

GateofDOOM

July 5th, 2008, 05:05 PM

Yes it certainly would have stopped me watching. I dont like SG1, at all. I find the crossovers beyond tedious, in the main.
I was pleasently surprised though that Carter was not pushed front and centre. i could totaly ignore her being there most of the time.
It certainly didnt feel like an improvement to me. so im glad shes only going to be in a couple of eps. that plus the other ones;

daniel and woolsey

is more than enough SG1 crossover for me, for one season.

Heh. I'm not a big crossover person either, but I figured if they were gonna do it, make Carter leader of the expedition, they should have Carter be Carter.
I think it's really unnatural for her to not jump in when everybody is talking science.
To have to step back and think about what went on behind the scenes is very distracting and takes one out of the show doesn't it?

Anyway, no techno-babble took me out, and now it has me contemplating why it was done that way in terms of the writers and their audience rather then why her character would do that and I'm completely out of the whole experience.

If the only way the writers can maintain their audience (ie: not alienate one group or another) is to write a character OOC or to diminish their presence then, at the end of the day, they probably shouldn't have brought said character on board. (Ie: Carter acting like Weir occasionally just so John and Rodney could shine).
(Midway was an issue for me too, but I won't go into that). If Carter is only able to actually be Carter when she's recurring then she shouldn't have been made a regular in the first place.

In Search and Rescue

I really enjoyed Carter's role. She was allowed to be Carter again, She was allowed, I think, to shine because they didn't have to worry about her outshining Rodney and Sheppard since she wasn't always gonna be there anymore.

I also liked her in "The Seer", one of the only episodes in season four that I felt she contributed something that was different then what Rodney and Sheppard (or even Weir actually) would have, or could have. And she did it in a Carter kind of way.

Now, I know alot of people disagree with me about this. I know you really enjoyed her on Atlantis and wish she were back for season five because you felt like she wasn't a different character. She was still Carter, but a more responsible leader type of Carter and a character that had alot to contribute to both the expedition and the show.
It's interesting how different people can have different conceptions of characters on TV isn't it?

I'll agree she had a lot to contribute, but I really didn't see much that wouldn't have been filled by someone else just as adequately actually appear on the show. I wanted to see the characters take precedence over concerns about show balance and audience groups. To really get lost in the show as a viable and believable story.
This is what I think to myself; If Atlantis were real, would Carter have let McKay do the science thing without chiming in to help? Wouldn't she have wanted to help him when their lives are at risk? Would she have mostly believed the same things as Sheppard? Wouldn't her more cautious nature have clashed with Shepperd's recklessness?

The answers, I feel, are no (edit: except yes for the last and second. Dang! I was almost good there too.:P) and it's too bad, because she could have been used to create conflict. To maybe make Atlantis question their actions in the past because she has a different way of doing it for better or for worse. I feel like she could have been better than Weir was and instead I essentially got Weir 2.0 with some garnishing of Carter for, apparently, political reasons.

I'm now hoping Woolsey will bring what I thought Carter would to Atlantis, more conflict. He already has a vastly different philoshopy from the other main characters so that should pretty much be in the bag.

I just hope they don't change Woolsey into Mr. Likable just so that conflicts can be resolved smoothly. Even is he becomes more unorthodox than previously he should still have some big disagreements with the characters.

Other people obviously liked the way the show went down last year, they were expecting something different I guess or they picked out different things.

Too bad the writers don't write the show in the way that *I* want it to be written. :P

Ah well, as long as they got it right for somebody right? Otherwise they'd actually be in trouble. :D

Ltcolshepjumper

July 5th, 2008, 06:05 PM

If the only way the writers can maintain their audience (ie: not alienate one group or another) is to write a character OOC or to diminish their presence then, at the end of the day, they probably shouldn't have brought said character on board. (Ie: Carter acting like Weir occasionally just so John and Rodney could shine).
(Midway was an issue for me too, but I won't go into that). If Carter is only able to actually be Carter when she's recurring then she shouldn't have been made a regular in the first place.

In Search and Rescue

I really enjoyed Carter's role. She was allowed to be Carter again, She was allowed, I think, to shine because they didn't have to worry about her outshining Rodney and Sheppard since she wasn't always gonna be there anymore.

I also liked her in "The Seer", one of the only episodes in season four that I felt she contributed something that was different then what Rodney and Sheppard (or even Weir actually) would have, or could have. And she did it in a Carter kind of way.

Now, I know alot of people disagree with me about this. I know you really enjoyed her on Atlantis and wish she were back for season five because you felt like she wasn't a different character. She was still Carter, but a more responsible leader type of Carter and a character that had alot to contribute to both the expedition and the show.
It's interesting how different people can have different conceptions of characters on TV isn't it?

I'll agree she had a lot to contribute, but I really didn't see much that wouldn't have been filled by someone else just as adequately actually appear on the show. I wanted to see the characters take precedence over concerns about show balance and audience groups. To really get lost in the show as a viable and believable story.
This is what I think to myself; If Atlantis were real, would Carter have let McKay do the science thing without chiming in to help? Wouldn't she have wanted to help him when their lives are at risk? Would she have mostly believed the same things as Sheppard? Wouldn't her more cautious nature have clashed with Shepperd's recklessness?

The answers, I feel, are no (edit: except yes for the last and second. Dang! I was almost good there too.:P) and it's too bad, because she could have been used to create conflict. To maybe make Atlantis question their actions in the past because she has a different way of doing it for better or for worse. I feel like she could have been better than Weir was and instead I essentially got Weir 2.0 with some garnishing of Carter for, apparently, political reasons.

I'm now hoping Woolsey will bring what I thought Carter would to Atlantis, more conflict. He already has a vastly different philoshopy from the other main characters so that should pretty much be in the bag.

I just hope they don't change Woolsey into Mr. Likable just so that conflicts can be resolved smoothly. Even is he becomes more unorthodox than previously he should still have some big disagreements with the characters.

Other people obviously liked the way the show went down last year, they were expecting something different I guess or they picked out different things.

I think one of the problems with Carter is that she is made out to be this picture-perfect character. Which is quite unrealistic. All of SG-1 had their character flaws except her. And, in Atlantis, it seems as though everyone was on their best behavior in Season 4. Mckay wasn't as cranky, Ronon wasn't as grumpy, Shep wasn't as independent. It's as though they tried to make carter gel with everyone, which is highly unrealistic. Many people say that Carter would not have made as big a blunder as the "creation" of Michael, and yet there were no morally questionable situations in Season 4. Alot of people judge Weir and compare her to Carter.

First, Weir is a civilian diplomat. Carter is more or less a military scientist. Carter has been out in the field with offworld exploration. She has always been a field commander. Weir is an administrator. Weir's job is that of an overseer. Carter's job in Season 4 is that of a military commander. Two different roles. They were both equally as good, but they had two completely different roles. And Weir handled herself just fine. The only major mistake under her tenure as commander was Michael. Now, remember, Mckay reactivated the Asuran base code when she was practically no longer leader. But, as I said, Carter never had to make those decisions.

But yes, in Season 4, Carter was no different than Weir, which was disappointing, as it seems she was merely there to bring in SG-1 fans. Makes me wonder why Weir was axed in the first place. It would have been much better if Carter came over as a recurring character. then, perhaps she could have remained herslef. Maybe she could have been commander of the Apollo, in place of Col. Ellis, which no one seems to like.

Also, I found it very disappointing that Carter did not have to adjust to the Wraith and their tactics. The Goauld, Ori, and Wraith are very different. They didn't do a good enough job of contrasting her experiences with those of Sheppard and Mckay. It seems as though the only time carter's experience is needed is when the Atlantis expedition gets into a situation similar to one SG-1 has encountered, which is really telling, given the fact that the writers should be coming up with new and unique adventures.

Amaunet

July 6th, 2008, 05:00 AM

I voted Woolsey
I liked the fact that he played the role as the voice of the opposition to the SG program and Atlantis Expedition, often hindering the progress of sg operations...but I'm not sure if I like the idea of him being a regular character, let alone commander...I really don't know what he'll be like for sure, but I guess I'll have to see how it all plays out in S5! ;)

Rac80

July 6th, 2008, 06:20 AM

Pic

July 6th, 2008, 06:33 AM

I enjoyed Sam on SGA I was just disappointed they didn't use her character to teach Rodney how a responsible adult acts! I was so waiting for her to snap back at him to stop being so insufferable!
I think they should simply let Carson RIP!

Actually, I kinda like how she took up for him with Ellis as one of her 'people'. Her role isn't chief-science-guru on Atlantis, and Rodney does know his stuff. Yes, he's annoyingly arrogant at times, but can he do his job? Actually, he's grown on me like he has on some of his teammates I suppose.

I agree about the Carson thing. The storyline is a bit too forced for my tastes. Like TPTB are catering to the fans and pulling something out of their... thin air... when it doesn't seem to work too well in the story. Hopefully s5 does a better job than Kindred did with Carson!Clone.

Pajus

July 6th, 2008, 07:10 AM

» Which part isn't PG ... the detailed process of killing Sheppard or Keller's 'qualification' and 'skill'? :P

Keller's 'qualification' and 'skill' can be summed up in the sentence "She's an idiot", which is PG-rated. The detailed process of Sheppard's death and the suffering he'd have to go through (unless someone... ends it) is definitely non-PG.

About the red <snip>gave me - Sadly 4 of the 5 stories are not joking. Despite what SGA TPTBs are trying to make us believe, reality will NOT spare someone's life just because he is a Colonel of the USAF or a 'scientist' who thinks he's the most brilliant mind in two galaxies. If you do idiotic things (like the two previously mentioned), reality will kill you (and if you do things as stupid as two previously mentioned, reality will kill you and everyone around you). It's a fact that you should get used to. And about the 5th story - that was on-character writing of the HK-series protocol/assassination droids and the jokes just came with it.

GateGipsy

July 7th, 2008, 10:34 AM

When replying to posts, discuss the points made in the post not the way that the person has posted.

This is not the place to discuss the way someone has posted or what that post says about them as a person. And by place I mean the GateWorld forum as a whole. If you want to make those sorts of comments then this is the discussion forum for you.

Any posts like that will be deleted. Don't make me start handing out infractions.

Falcon Horus

July 7th, 2008, 04:24 PM

Please stop mentioning DG! :( Have you any idea how long it takes me to put my heart back together? It's like a gazillion-piece puzzle.

:p

Anyway...

She never needed to salvage anything-- let me rephrase that, the only thing she needed to salvage was the dull, boring and poorly done role of base leader done by Weir. IMHO!!!

I thought you didn't like character bashing... or does that only apply to Carter? :cool:

That's it, that's the problem, you're bashing, you're bashing, you're saying things that aren't true, you're making a great character loved by so many seem boring and dull. Not only that, but you're hurting an actors/characters crediabilty. That wrong, very, very wrong in my book.

Like I said... :cool:

She put more life into her lines without even trying to, than TH did giving it 100%. And you know what else? Even after 11 years AT stayed so fresh and amazing while playing Carter, while TH got old fast.

Double standards at play. :cool:

How do you not see the blatant hypocrisy in these statements? It's okay to say that Weir was a bland and ineffective character, but we can't say the same thing about Sam? Sweetheart, I hate to tell you this, but not everyone believes that the sun rose and set out of Sam Carter's rear end, and no amount of posting from you will change that fact. People are free to dislike Sam just as you are free to dislike Weir, and if that gets your panties in a bunch, you're just going to have to deal with it.

It wouldn't let me green you, so have some mental GREEN!!

Cast stability, in Atlantis? That would be entirely too logical. ;)

*giggles*

And boring.

SG-1 didn't seem to have too much issues with it in its first few seasons... *whistles innocently*

Ltcolshepjumper

July 7th, 2008, 05:33 PM

Please stop mentioning DG! :( Have you any idea how long it takes me to put my heart back together? It's like a gazillion-piece puzzle.

:p

Anyway...

I thought you didn't like character bashing... or does that only apply to Carter? :cool:

Like I said... :cool:

Double standards at play. :cool:

It wouldn't let me green you, so have some mental GREEN!!

*giggles*

SG-1 didn't seem to have too much issues with it in its first few seasons... *whistles innocently*

ITA. And, I think Weir was a perfectly good character hindered by poor character development- in other words, tptb. IMO, Carter didn't stay fresh for 11 years. And what Rocky89 is doing is actor/actress-bashing, not character bashing, which I don't think is allowed here.

PG15

July 7th, 2008, 07:21 PM

SG-1 didn't seem to have too much issues with it in its first few seasons... *whistles innocently*

To some...

All I know is, Meridian and Heroes Part 2 are in my top 10 list (#7 and #2, respectively). Also, SG1 didn't hesitate to kill off recurring characters like, say, Martouf, Narim (along with most, if not all Tollans), Sha're, Rothman, Kawalsky, Elliot, Skaara (he died at the end of Season 1, and fans didn't know he'd be revived in the premier; heck, TPTB didn't know either until the fans complained a lot), etc. etc. That's all in the first 5 seasons.

GateGipsy

July 8th, 2008, 01:33 AM

Lets clarify this folks. Characters on a show are fiction, and so they aren't covered by the respect rule. That only applies to real people such as cast, crew, fellow posters. That said, when posting we'd hope that people would be considerate that the character they hate may be someone else's beloved favourite, and that before they hit post, they think about how they'd feel if someone said that about their favourite character.

Now, when it comes to talking about, say, cast and crew, then criticisms and discussions about their work are acceptable. Saying an actor's acting talents are boring isn't great for discussion but it doesn't break the rules. Saying an actor is boring does break the rules - that's making a negative personal remark.

That's the final word on this subject - any posts along those lines will be deleted from this point on as off topic.

Rac80

July 9th, 2008, 07:38 AM

Carson should go, let the "puir wee mannie" RIP!

Reiko

July 9th, 2008, 03:15 PM

Carson should go, let the "puir wee mannie" RIP!

» We know. Can you please elaborate.

AutumnDream

July 9th, 2008, 03:44 PM

She never needed to salvage anything-- let me rephrase that, the only thing she needed to salvage was the dull, boring and poorly done role of base leader done by Weir. IMHO!!!

She put more life into her lines without even trying to, than TH did giving it 100%. And you know what else? Even after 11 years AT stayed so fresh and amazing while playing Carter, while TH got old fast. Of anything she was in her prime on SG-1.

Heh, you do realize Weir was seen as boring because the writers were too dimwitted to come up with anything for a (female) diplomat to do on a show that is entirely about firing guns and solving whacky alien technology problems? Fortunately, they had Carter to come in and do a marginally greater degree of random stuff, but otherwise be just as useless and boring.

Carter did not stay fresh and amazing for eleven years. AT's acting took a dive some time in the last few years. I don't know whether she finally realized how bad the writers are, just doesn't care, or is too tired from taking care of her child, but she is no longer anywhere near the level she was in early SG-1 episodes like Singularity. Additionally, her character has been stagnant for years. Regardless of the quality with which TH and AT's characters were written, it's asinine to posit that one character is better than the other or could possibly solve the other's shortcomings. It's all the same writers. If they can't make a character interesting it's no one's fault but their own. And if they can't do that, why would they be able to make another character interesting in the exact same role?

Jumper_One

July 9th, 2008, 03:53 PM

Carter did not stay fresh and amazing for eleven years. AT's acting took a dive some time in the last few years. I don't know whether she finally realized how bad the writers are, just doesn't care, or is too tired from taking care of her child, but she is no longer anywhere near the level she was in early SG-1 episodes like Singularity.

um you should probably rewatch some eps ie Grace, Death Knell, Gemini, Ripple Effect, TRNT ;)

hedwig

July 9th, 2008, 05:11 PM

AT's acting took a dive some time in the last few years. I don't know whether she finally realized how bad the writers are, just doesn't care, or is too tired from taking care of her child, but she is no longer anywhere near the level she was in early SG-1 episodes like Singularity. Additionally, her character has been stagnant for years.

I'm probably just repeating what others may have said, but I don't think the above is AT's fault. I think it was what the writers gave her to work with, and she did her best with that. It often seemed to me she was shoved into the background the last couple of years in order to focus on Daniel and the new characters. But that's just my opinion.:D

Claudia Black also was pregnant and had a child during her stint on SG1. Do you also think her acting suffered because of that? I read somewhere that she was sick much of her pregnancy, yet I don't think it showed in her acting.

Rac80

July 9th, 2008, 05:13 PM

» We know. Can you please elaborate.

Well he is a clone ---that makes him an identity thief --- which will cause conflict in the "perfect carson" ---so he will implode! :D How's that? :P:P

Reiko

July 9th, 2008, 09:35 PM

Well he is a clone ---that makes him an identity thief --- which will cause conflict in the "perfect carson" ---so he will implode! :D How's that? :P:P

» I disagree because though he is a clone, his relationships, personality and everything are the same. He is treated the same. Exact copy, other than the experiences/memories for Misbegotten forward are missing.

» And, he won't implode, nor cause conflict in "perfect Carson". (Whatever that means.) The other Carson is dead, so by allowing him to exist Carson II is not interfering with the life of Carson I. Now, it may be a problem if both were alive, but that is not the case.

Pajus

July 9th, 2008, 10:09 PM

um you should probably rewatch some eps ie Grace, Death Knell, Gemini, Ripple Effect, TRNT ;)

These episodes have aired 4 years ago, so AtumnDream is right

PG15

July 9th, 2008, 10:12 PM

Nope. Grace and Death Knell were in Season 7, Gemini was in Season 8, Ripple Effect was in Season 9 and The Road Not Taken was in Season 10.

AutumnDream

July 9th, 2008, 11:22 PM

I'm probably just repeating what others may have said, but I don't think the above is AT's fault. I think it was what the writers gave her to work with, and she did her best with that. It often seemed to me she was shoved into the background the last couple of years in order to focus on Daniel and the new characters. But that's just my opinion.:D

Claudia Black also was pregnant and had a child during her stint on SG1. Do you also think her acting suffered because of that? I read somewhere that she was sick much of her pregnancy, yet I don't think it showed in her acting.

I don't necessarily think it's her fault either. But I imagine the most likely cause is burn-out from working on the same series for over a decade, the shortcomings of the writers possibly a factor as well. (Regarding her character & otherwise.) Claudia had only been on the show for two years, and was probably glad to have the job, so not only did she never have the opportunity to degenerate, her enthusiasm showed in her work.

Integrabyte

July 9th, 2008, 11:45 PM

Keller and Sheppard.

stclare

July 10th, 2008, 12:00 AM

Keller and Sheppard.

Good luck with that :cool:

Pajus

July 10th, 2008, 12:20 AM

Nope. Grace and Death Knell were in Season 7, Gemini was in Season 8, Ripple Effect was in Season 9 and The Road Not Taken was in Season 10.

Season 7 was 4 years ago, Gemini was good, Ripple Effect... okay and I didn't know what TRNT was, so I made no comments about that. What about the other episodes, where Carter looks like a tired grandma (eg. Atlantis episodes)?

hedwig

July 10th, 2008, 08:39 AM

Season 7 was 4 years ago, Gemini was good, Ripple Effect... okay and I didn't know what TRNT was, so I made no comments about that. What about the other episodes, where Carter looks like a tired grandma (eg. Atlantis episodes)?

"Tired grandma"? Wasn't that in "Unending"? Last episode of the series?

Arica12

July 10th, 2008, 09:21 AM

Good luck with that :cool:

Well with Keller being a 'universally admired' character, apparently, it looks like you'll need something industrial strength to get rid of her however as Sheppard is actually a popular character you may have a shot there;)

Jumper_One

July 10th, 2008, 10:25 AM

These episodes have aired 4 years ago, so AtumnDream is right

nope ;)

713 Grace
716 Death Knell
811 Gemini
913 Ripple Effect
1013 TRNT

"Tired grandma"? Wasn't that in "Unending"? Last episode of the series?

yup

Ltcolshepjumper

July 10th, 2008, 11:26 AM

"Tired grandma"? Wasn't that in "Unending"? Last episode of the series?

Doppleganger too.;)

Reiko

July 10th, 2008, 02:41 PM

Keller and Sheppard.

» Why Sheppard for you, now? :P

Rac80

July 10th, 2008, 04:38 PM

» Why Sheppard for you, now? :P

he's jealous of shep's hair! ;)

Nusku

July 10th, 2008, 07:13 PM

I've seen all the episodes but I had to look up who Larrin was. Why all the hate for her? She's ace! One of the best recurring characters. They should feature her much more.

Integrabyte

July 10th, 2008, 11:16 PM

» Why Sheppard for you, now? :P

Search and Rescue was the last straw.

jannagalaxy

July 10th, 2008, 11:41 PM

Well, I'd like to see Woolsey and Keller go.

At first I liked Keller, but now...urm...she's starting to grate on me abit. My reasons are like many people have already stated, eg dissing radek, the flirting thing with the men...

I've never liked Woolsey, I'm not sure why...even when he does something good. I don't understand why the character is always praised and put in good positions. Like the time he was put in Atlantis when the surviving ancients returned. I just hope that there are not going to be story arcs surrounding him...<shudders>

TJuk

July 10th, 2008, 11:56 PM

» The poor sap who created the promo pic atrocity needs to go. :mckay: Bad photoshop makes me cry.

Amen to that! Dont forget the 'no-chin, small head' Sheppard and generally crap PS job on the DVD covers the last 2 years. Apparently the s3 DVD cover was a last minute hachet job because someone wanted Carson off the cover (and that info came from someone at Fox who didn't like the cover either). Not to mention the last two seasons floating cast shots with the uber shiny floor and no reflection! It makes the show look like a cheesy b-movie!

Keller either needs to go, or they get a writer whose at least half-compitent at writing believable women characters and stop portraying her as the pathetic little damsel in distress who only treats the cute guys so she can unethically perv on her patient.

PG15

July 11th, 2008, 12:01 AM

Alipeeps

July 11th, 2008, 12:04 AM

Keller either needs to go, or they get a writer whose at least half-compitent at writing believable women characters and stop portraying her as the pathetic little damsel in distress who only treats the cute guys so she can unethically perv on her patient.

Oh wow. Seriously, I can get that you might not like Keller. And you're entitled to that opinion. But please show me ANY actual canon evidence from the show that Keller a) "only treats the cute guys" and b) does so with the intention of "unethically perv[ing] on her patients"!!

Honestly, I feel like this whole "Keller is a slut" thing is becoming a classic example of people confusing fanon with canon. People in fandom got themselves all worked up over the fact that - shock! horror! - a woman almost kissed one man and a few weeks later invited another to have a drink with her (The brazen hussy! Has she no shame?!!) and started ranting about her being a slut etc etc etc and next thing you know people are accepting that interpretation as though it is fact. Based on the CANON evidence so far, it's nothing more than an over-reaction. :S

Integrabyte

July 11th, 2008, 12:04 AM

...

What new BS is this?

Bachelor of Science?

PG15

July 11th, 2008, 12:07 AM

That's "BSc", actually. I should know. I hope to get one in 2 years.

But, uh, Alipeeps outlined my thoughts nicely (as she usually does).

EDIT: Hmm, my bad, it seems that B.S. can be short for Bachelor of Science after all: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bachelor_of_Science

Linzi

July 11th, 2008, 12:53 AM

Amen to that! Dont forget the 'no-chin, small head' Sheppard and generally crap PS job on the DVD covers the last 2 years. Apparently the s3 DVD cover was a last minute hachet job because someone wanted Carson off the cover (and that info came from someone at Fox who didn't like the cover either). Not to mention the last two seasons floating cast shots with the uber shiny floor and no reflection! It makes the show look like a cheesy b-movie!

Keller either needs to go, or they get a writer whose at least half-compitent at writing believable women characters and stop portraying her as the pathetic little damsel in distress who only treats the cute guys so she can unethically perv on her patient.
Can you please give the link to the info about the season 3 dvd cover please? Who at Fox said that and where was that said? I don't particularly like the promo shots OR dvd covers though. But, if what you're telling us here is hearsay, I don't think you should be repeating it. If you have proof, then excellent.

As for Keller perving on patients? Really? Did I blink and miss that? :confused:

I personally have issues with Keller's age as CMO, and have had issues with her not looking very self assured in doctoring matters on occasion, but I've NEVER seen her perving on patients or only treating cute guys. Unless Martin Jarvis' character from The Seer is considered a 'cute' guy?

Unfortunately, the SGA team ARE full of cute guys, and as the stories are about the team, then, yeah, she's going to be treating cute guys. Hmmm, she treated Weir and Teyla. Are they cute guys too? ;)

Alipeeps

July 11th, 2008, 01:06 AM

Unfortunately, the SGA team ARE full of cute guys, and as the stories are about the team, then, yeah, she's going to be treating cute guys. Hmmm, she treated Weir and Teyla. Are they cute guys too? ;)

Katie Brown must be a cute guy too, and Sam Carter and that guy Nabel... in fact, if Tabula Rasa is any indictation, then the entire staff of the expedition are all cute guys! :eek:

Linzi

July 11th, 2008, 01:11 AM

Katie Brown must be a cute guy too, and Sam Carter and that guy Nabel... in fact, if Tabula Rasa is any indictation, then the entire staff of the expedition are all cute guys! :eek:
:lol: Gerald? No way was he a cute guy! :eek:

Linda06

July 11th, 2008, 06:35 AM

I've seen all the episodes but I had to look up who Larrin was. Why all the hate for her? She's ace! One of the best recurring characters. They should feature her much more.

hmm lemme see........She looks like a dominatrix with those very skimpy leather outfits on which makes her look ridiculous...She's nothing but a scantilly clad space chick who likes showing off her cleavage so guys like Shep can drool all over her......IMO she's the worst character that's ever graced Stargate :D

Oh and Rodney has got a temporary reprieve from me after i saw him in S & R.........Now if he's like this for the rest of the season i'll be alot happier with him but if he reverts back to S4 Rodney then i'm afraid it'll be the nearest airlock for him!

Integrabyte

July 11th, 2008, 06:42 AM

Nusku

July 11th, 2008, 07:30 AM

hmm lemme see........She looks like a dominatrix with those very skimpy leather outfits on which makes her look ridiculous...She's nothing but a scantilly clad space chick who likes showing off her cleavage so guys like Shep can drool all over her......IMO she's the worst character that's ever graced Stargate :D

Ah, so it's probably the Gateworld birds who have been laying on all the Larrin hate then. ;)

I can't recall her outfits but scantilly clad space chicks always own! I just remember a fiesty girl who gets what she wants with some style and a smile. SGA needs women like her and not the dorks like Keller.

I was also quite suprised Teyla is getting the same level of hate as Woolsey! I liked her because she's the most convincing martial artist on the show but I must admit from the start of her pregnancy her character has gone downhill fast. Hopefully they'll lose the baby and restore her to her former glory.

Linda06

July 11th, 2008, 07:38 AM

Ah, so it's probably the Gateworld birds who have been laying on all the Larrin hate then. ;)

I can't recall her outfits but scantilly clad space chicks always own! I just remember a fiesty girl who gets what she wants with some style and a smile. SGA needs women like her and not the dorks like Keller.

I was also quite suprised Teyla is getting the same level of hate as Woolsey! I liked her because she's the most convincing martial artist on the show but I must admit from the start of her pregnancy her character has gone downhill fast. Hopefully they'll lose the baby and restore her to her former glory.

I just thought the Larrin character was the sillest thing,i dunno maybe it would have been different if t was a different actress but then again maybe not....She made Shep look like a frat boy *shrugs*

Oh i love Teyla ...She's my fave character on Atlantis :D I mean at least she can look gorgeous without looking like a um how can i put this......tart.......She's beautiful and sure she wears clothes sometimes that accentuates (ooh look at me,i think i ate a dictionary for my breakfast ;)) her looks but she never flaunts it..And well her fighting scenes are some of the most breathtaking scenes on the show...IMHO....I do agree that i wasn't happy about the whole pregnancy storyarc,i thought they could have done it alot better than they did but what's done is done i guess....And with any luck bambino won't hang around too long and we can get our kickass warrior back ;)

g.o.d

July 11th, 2008, 08:40 AM

yeah, I'm really looking forward to see more Teyla...

PG15

July 11th, 2008, 10:07 AM

I am always right, except when I am wrong :p.

That...makes sense. You're right again! ;)

jelgate

July 11th, 2008, 11:37 AM

yeah, I'm really looking forward to see more Teyla...My sarcasm detectors are going off.:P

jckfan55

July 11th, 2008, 12:03 PM

I've never liked Woolsey, I'm not sure why...even when he does something good. I don't understand why the character is always praised and put in good positions. Like the time he was put in Atlantis when the surviving ancients returned. I just hope that there are not going to be story arcs surrounding him...<shudders>

I thought Woolsey was a good periodic antagonist. I don't really see him as a regular & not as a leader of ATlantis. Maybe I'll be proven wrong.

On a superficial note, the shots of him in the Atlantis suit are unintentionally hilarious. He looks a bit too much like Voyager's Doctor.

Ltcolshepjumper

July 11th, 2008, 12:12 PM

I thought Woolsey was a good periodic antagonist. I don't really see him as a regular & not as a leader of Atlantis. Maybe I'll be proven wrong.

On a superficial note, the shots of him in the Atlantis suit are unintentionally hilarious. He looks a bit too much like Voyager's Doctor.

I think characters like Lorne, Zelenka, Keller, and even Woolsey are excellent recurring characters- almost like a secondary main cast. However, I don't think any of them have the depth or dynamic that a regular main cast has. I think Woolsey would have done great in Seasons 2 and 3 as a foil for Weir. I don't think he should be a regular mainly because he'll get soft and essentially become like Carter- generating no conflict, no issues, and he'll just be there. But, I'd prefer him to Carter (IMO, Carter would have been much better as a ship commander, that way she wouldn't have had to stay in the background), largely because there is no one in Atlantis with those skills, since Weir is gone. And even then, Weir wasn't utilized properly given her diplomatic background with the UN.

Dr Weir

July 11th, 2008, 12:14 PM

All of them and then the series should be stopped!

jenks

July 11th, 2008, 12:27 PM

What for?

Ltcolshepjumper

July 11th, 2008, 12:29 PM

All of them and then the series should be stopped!

Or, maybe you should just not watch.

Dr Weir

July 11th, 2008, 12:46 PM

Here's what I think. Not wanting to watch the show is one thing. not wanting others to watch is completely different, and IMO it's selfish.
The thing is I have a different opinion from you. In my mind the show has stooped so low it can't be allowed to go on, for the sake for the audience (which used ot include myself). There's been lots of shows cancelled for bad quality, imagine if they were kept on for some viewers, they would need extra channels just to run them.

I think it's selfish that the show has become sexist and dubbed down to entertain a minority of the audience which doesn't include myself! See people have different views and as it's just a TV show, selfishness doesn't even come into play. It does if lets say someone's is drowning and no one would rescue them because they didn't want to get hurt. Get some perspective!

Jumper_One

July 11th, 2008, 12:49 PM

Ltcolshepjumper

July 11th, 2008, 12:54 PM

The thing is I have a different opinion from you. In my mind the show has stooped so low it can't be allowed to go on, for the sake for the audience (which used ot include myself). There's been lots of shows cancelled for bad quality, imagine if they were kept on for some viewers, they would need extra channels just to run them.

I think it's selfish that the show has become sexist and dubbed down to entertain a minority of the audience which doesn't include myself! See people have different views and as it's just a TV show, selfishness doesn't even come into play. It does if lets say someone's is drowning and no one would rescue them because they didn't want to get hurt. Get some perspective!

But not wanting others to watch the show is completely selfish. SGA continuing to run has nothing to do with your satisfaction. And I have perspective. What you are saying is that you don't want the fans of the show to watch it because you don't like it. That is selfish. It would be different if everyone didn't like it. Don't try to play it off as if you are trying to protect everyone from SGAs "harmful" qualities. Oh, the show was sexist from the beginning. the franchise has geared more towards men in it's audience and casts. And because people have different views, you wanting the show to be canceled is an infringement on the beliefs and views of other people. You are entitled to your views that the show is bad, and that you don't want to watch it. That does not intrude upon others' beliefs.

jenks

July 11th, 2008, 12:55 PM

That's right, it can't be selfishness unless someones life is at risk you fools!

[/Sarcasm]

Linda06

July 11th, 2008, 12:56 PM

I don't know what i'd do if i didn't have Stargate in my life.....It's been a part of my life since the very beginning!

Ltcolshepjumper

July 11th, 2008, 12:58 PM

That's right, it can't be selfishness unless someones life is at risk you fools!

[/Sarcasm]

Because, if I can dumb it down, it's like saying "If I can't have it my way, then no one can have it at all"

Alipeeps

July 11th, 2008, 12:59 PM

The thing is I have a different opinion from you. In my mind the show has stooped so low it can't be allowed to go on, for the sake for the audience (which used ot include myself). There's been lots of shows cancelled for bad quality, imagine if they were kept on for some viewers, they would need extra channels just to run them.

I think it's selfish that the show has become sexist and dubbed down to entertain a minority of the audience which doesn't include myself! See people have different views and as it's just a TV show, selfishness doesn't even come into play. It does if lets say someone's is drowning and no one would rescue them because they didn't want to get hurt. Get some perspective!

So your opinion is that because you and what you perceive (correctly or not) to be the majority of fans don't enjoy the show anymore, to heck with all those who still do, it should be cancelled to make you happy? Right? And you don't think that just maybe, folks might find that a leeeeetle tiny bit selfish? :)

You're more than entitled to your opinion and you're entitled to hate the show and you can exercise your opinion freely by not watching the show. But that doesn't give you any right to tell people who do like the show that they're wrong for liking it and wanting to watch it and that it should be cancelled for their own good.

You seem to be implying that those of us who still want to watch the show (and there are enough of us that the network are happy to continue paying to produce the show) are being selfish by forcing you to live in a world where something is allowed to continue to exist even though you hate it. I think you need a little perspective there yourself...

Alipeeps

July 11th, 2008, 01:01 PM

I don't know what i'd do if i didn't have Stargate in my life.....It's been a part of my life since the very beginning!

From the very beginning?! You're only 12?!! :lol:

jelgate

July 11th, 2008, 01:02 PM

From the very beginning?! You're only 12?!! :lol::eek: She's violating the rules.

Dr Weir

July 11th, 2008, 01:04 PM

You are entitled to your views that the show is bad, and that you don't want to watch it. That does not intrude upon others' beliefs.I'm entitled to want the show to be cancelled. Don't tell me what I can or can not think! I'm not going to argue anymore about nothing, I have better things to do. Good luck in trying to enforce your beliefs onto people about TV shows in real life. You'll be rather shocked at how that'll turn out!
And because people have different views, you wanting the show to be canceled is an infringement on the beliefs and views of other people. So sue me!

Ltcolshepjumper

July 11th, 2008, 01:06 PM

I'm entitled to want the show to be cancelled. Don't tell me what I can or can not think! I'm not going to argue anymore about nothing, I have better things to do. Good luck in trying to enforce your belief onto people about TV shows in real life. You'll be rather shocked at how that'll turn out!So sue me!

If you really had better things to do you wouldn't be on this forum, given the fact that you don't even watch the show. My statements do have real life applications in anything you do, anywhere you go.

Linda06

July 11th, 2008, 01:10 PM

From the very beginning?! You're only 12?!! :lol:

:mckay: very funny....Have you been taking lessons from the jel ;) And just for the record,i'm 34 years old :p

Skydiver

July 11th, 2008, 01:15 PM

First

CHILL OUT!!!

and i mean ALL of you. Grow up and act like adults, or find another forum to play on.

Stop bickering with each other, stop telling people who can/can't post and what they can/can't post. ANY opinion, as long as it doesn't violate the forum rules, is welcome here.

now, the topic is YOUR PERSONAL opinion of who should go, not who else is right or wrong. Keep up the bickering and I'll start gagging people...which means you can't talk about search and rescue after it airs tonight.

oh and second, complaining about rep points is off topic

jelgate

July 11th, 2008, 01:19 PM

:mckay: very funny....Have you been taking lessons from the jel ;) And just for the record,i'm 34 years old :p
Are you kidding? Alipeeps and I had the same teacher. Such an evil lady.

Linda06

July 11th, 2008, 01:28 PM

Are you kidding? Alipeeps and I had the same teacher. Such an evil lady.

Oh i'll bet ;)

so do have to have something on topic now.....um Larrin should never set foot in the pegasus galaxy again :D Is that on topic enough :o

Ltcolshepjumper

July 11th, 2008, 01:37 PM

I think I can agree with that. The Travelers as a whole have been a let down.

jelgate

July 11th, 2008, 01:37 PM

Larrin should never set foot in the pegasus galaxy againI don't know. Todd looks hungry.

Linda06

July 11th, 2008, 01:52 PM

I think I can agree with that. The Travelers as a whole have been a let down.

Yep they sure have!

I don't know. Todd looks hungry.

Oh well then...By all means come on in Larrin....

Falcon Horus

July 11th, 2008, 02:42 PM

...the Gateworld birds...

There are birds on GW?!? :S

I can't recall her outfits but scantilly clad space chicks always own!

Are you by any chance a teen male? :p

I just remember a fiesty girl who gets what she wants with some style and a smile. SGA needs women like her and not the dorks like Keller.

Oh goddess nooooooo, don't let SGA women be like Larrin. Goddess, that would be the world's end. They don't need to be like Keller either, but like Larrin and the show needs to be moved to some ungodly hour or a different channel, something that shows X-rated stuff.

I was also quite suprised Teyla is getting the same level of hate as Woolsey!

That would probably be because she isn't very much liked on the whole. I'm still looking for the reason though I think I have a hunch as to why.

For the record, Teyla is my second favorite character. My favorite is dead, and my third favorite is missing/dead (just so there's no confusion on who I'm talking about).

yeah, I'm really looking forward to see more Teyla...

Aw! *pats g.o.d* It'll be okay. They'll forget about her again, you'll see.

I don't know what i'd do if i didn't have Stargate in my life.....It's been a part of my life since the very beginning!

You'd find something else to rave about, or you just moved on. :)

And just for the record,i'm 34 years old :p

Are you really? :eek: Wow, you're older than me.

Pegasus_SGA

July 11th, 2008, 02:46 PM

The thing is I have a different opinion from you. In my mind the show has stooped so low it can't be allowed to go on, for the sake for the audience (which used ot include myself). There's been lots of shows cancelled for bad quality, imagine if they were kept on for some viewers, they would need extra channels just to run them.

Can't be allowed to go on? Well unless you're funding it you're not exactly going to get a say in the matter. :lol:

If it's that bad, just turn off the chanel and be done with it, you must have some vested in the show still otherwise you wouldn't get so upset by it. :)

I think it's selfish that the show has become sexist and dubbed down to entertain a minority of the audience which doesn't include myself! See people have different views and as it's just a TV show, selfishness doesn't even come into play. It does if lets say someone's is drowning and no one would rescue them because they didn't want to get hurt. Get some perspective!

Why selfish? I don't get your meaning on that? Dubbed down to the minority? IN what sense? Because you're not enjoying it, you feel the quality has lessend somewhat? And I don't get your sexist point either. I mean Shep hasn't even been shirtless at all in s4!! Dammit, the big meanies, won't even let me objectify him properly anymore. ;)

Reiko

July 11th, 2008, 02:56 PM

I've seen all the episodes but I had to look up who Larrin was. Why all the hate for her? She's ace! One of the best recurring characters. They should feature her much more.

» Oh, no. :eek: Keller drives me nuts; factoring in Larrin just might drive me over the edge. As for all the hate she has recieved, I hate her because she's a horrible character, that had a good premise that ended up with little or no substance. And the kirking. I think a lot of other people that hate her are John/Teyla shippers (just a subjective observation), and they don't want her to get in the way of the 'Sheyla Love'. :P

I think it's selfish that the show has become sexist and dubbed down to entertain a minority of the audience which doesn't include myself!

» I agree; SGA had a HUGE following of women in the beginning, but we are viewed as a minority.

I'm entitled to want the show to be cancelled. Don't tell me what I can or can not think!

» That's the spirit.

If you really had better things to do you wouldn't be on this forum, given the fact that you don't even watch the show.

» She did watch the show. Just like several other of us. Plenty of people I know that were big fans of the first three season have gone into hiding and won't touch GW with a 10-foot stick because they will be ridiculed for their opinions that she show sucks unless things are changed.

Linzi

July 11th, 2008, 03:05 PM

You slowly walk away. Like everything in life, their will be a time when Stargate?* doesn't occupy you life, I on the other hand will be here until I have a law about every poster.

Time for grandma take her nap.:P
Oooh, what's your law about me, then? :D

You know, I don't dislike Larrin. Sorry, but she just doesn't annoy me. In fact, I quite like her. She's sexy, a leader and has Sheppard not knowing where he went wrong on the charm front, and I quite like that! :lol: :o

I have to say, though it might be within someone's right to want the show cancelled, why would anyone actively wish it? And then post that desire on a fan site? I'm curious to know. Is it to stamp the old feet and say 'If I don't like it, then nobody else has the right to, so cancel it!' Or is it to try and upset people who still enjoy the show? As I said, I'm not questioning anyone's right to want SGA cancelled, or their right to post that. I'm genuinely curious as to know what motivates someone to post that. :)

Ltcolshepjumper

July 11th, 2008, 03:38 PM

» Oh, no. :eek: Keller drives me nuts; factoring in Larrin just might drive me over the edge. As for all the hate she has recieved, I hate her because she's a horrible character, that had a good premise that ended up with little or no substance. And the kirking. I think a lot of other people that hate her are John/Teyla shippers (just a subjective observation), and they don't want her to get in the way of the 'Sheyla Love'. :P

» I agree; SGA had a HUGE following of women in the beginning, but we are viewed as a minority.

» That's the spirit.

» She did watch the show. Just like several other of us. Plenty of people I know that were big fans of the first three season have gone into hiding and won't touch GW with a 10-foot stick because they will be ridiculed for their opinions that the show sucks unless things are changed.

I thought we weren't supposed to bring this up again. personally, I think tptb should just leave well enough alone at this point. But, I will respond Getting on gateworld to voice ones opinion that things need to change is one thing. getting on gateworld to say that the show should be cancelled and that you don't want anything to do with it is completely different. One is proposing ways to make the show better; the other is trying to tear down the show even further. One is productive, the other destructive, and that is the problem. Instead of proposing ways to make the show better, she is merely voicing that she is no longer a fan, and that the show needs to be canceled. Her argument is pointless, because what is the point in getting on a Stargate fansite if you are no longer a fan. She might as well say that gateworld's SGA section needs to shutdown because she thinks Stargate Atlantis is a terrible show.

Reiko

July 11th, 2008, 03:50 PM

One is proposing ways to make the show better; the other is trying to tear down the show even further. One is productive, the other destructive, and that is the problem.

» Yes. That's what I do - the problem is, no one's listening, and that's when I resort to 'destructive' at times.

Instead of proposing ways to make the show better, she is merely voicing that she is no longer a fan, and that the show needs to be canceled. Her argument is pointless, because what is the point in getting on a Stargate fansite if you are no longer a fan.

» If she's doesn't want to watch the show because the quality has dropped, she hates the cast changes and doesn't like the tptb that's entirely her choice. It's everybody's.

» I think TJ pretty much said in on the SCB blog: Doesn't mean we stop being fans of the show; it means we are simply not fans of the new seasons.

Ltcolshepjumper

July 11th, 2008, 04:11 PM

» Yes. That's what I do - the problem is, no one's listening, and that's when I resort to 'destructive' at times.

» If she's doesn't want to watch the show because the quality has dropped, she hates the cast changes and doesn't like the tptb that's entirely her choice. It's everybody's.

» I think TJ pretty much said in on the SCB blog: Doesn't mean we stop being fans of the show; it means we are simply not fans of the new seasons.

Oh, maybe you should go back to her post then, because it was clearly more than that.

All of them and then the series should be stopped!

Now, tell me- is that really just an "I don't want to watch the show" post? Becaue it sure looks like it's a "I'm not a fan anymore" post. I don't know. Maybe my eyesight is bad or something. Anyway, that's all I'll say about that. My favorite show is coming on in 2 hrs, so I'll go do something else. Adios.

Rac80

July 11th, 2008, 04:18 PM

Well with Keller being a 'universally admired' character, apparently, it looks like you'll need something industrial strength to get rid of her however as Sheppard is actually a popular character you may have a shot there;)

you can only speak for yourself, I like the character and get sick and tired of being told "nobody" likes her! My opinion counts just as much as anyone else's does.

miniglik

July 11th, 2008, 04:45 PM

I thought we weren't supposed to bring this up again. personally, I think tptb should just leave well enough alone at this point. But, I will respond Getting on gateworld to voice ones opinion that things need to change is one thing. getting on gateworld to say that the show should be cancelled and that you don't want anything to do with it is completely different. One is proposing ways to make the show better; the other is trying to tear down the show even further. One is productive, the other destructive, and that is the problem. Instead of proposing ways to make the show better, she is merely voicing that she is no longer a fan, and that the show needs to be canceled. Her argument is pointless, because what is the point in getting on a Stargate fansite if you are no longer a fan. She might as well say that gateworld's SGA section needs to shutdown because she thinks Stargate Atlantis is a terrible show.

I've participated in many online fandoms -- after the first season there's always a group of fans that hates it and wants to see it cancelled. Everyone reacts differently to shows going a way they don't like, and it's bound to happen at some point (particularly with major cast changes). Don't take it personally. You have an ignore list for a reason.

I think I voted Larrin in this poll. I don't actively dislike her, but the heels, swimsuit model hair, and off the shoulder halter have got to be toned down. I would have voted Teyla, but as much as I have problems with her character boring me to tears, I've grown attached. Woolsey was up there, but I'm actually kind of fascinated to see how Sheppard, McKay and Ronon deal with His Royal Uptightness.

Skydiver

July 11th, 2008, 07:53 PM

Whacks thread one more time with the 'on topic' clue by four. :)

Khentkawes

July 11th, 2008, 11:59 PM

Whacks thread one more time with the 'on topic' clue by four. :)

I wish you best of luck with the clue by four, Skydiver.
And I'll add that differences of opinion are what make life interesting. If we all agreed, we would be boring, mindless automatons.

And my reason for stepping into this little (or not so little) thread was simply to express my shock that there are five other people besides me who voted to get rid of Sheppard. Hi, five people who agree with me! *waves*

I know the chances of Sheppard leaving are almost non-existent. But personally I find him to be predictable and boring. Don't get me wrong, I think Joe is a very funny actor. I just happen to think, IMHO, that Sheppard's character is a walking cliche.

But again, that's just my opinion. And as Mark Twain would say, my opinion is worth no more than the pope's. But no less.

AutumnDream

July 12th, 2008, 12:38 AM

» She did watch the show. Just like several other of us. Plenty of people I know that were big fans of the first three season have gone into hiding and won't touch GW with a 10-foot stick because they will be ridiculed for their opinions that she show sucks unless things are changed.

I think the show is terrible and my statements are applauded like 99% of the time. :D

But, uh... yeah, I'm kinda surprised people hate Keller more than Larrin.

I mean, wow. Larrin is really bad.

Integrabyte

July 12th, 2008, 01:53 AM

I think the show is terrible and my statements are applauded like 99% of the time. :D

But, uh... yeah, I'm kinda surprised people hate Keller more than Larrin.

I mean, wow. Larrin is really bad.

She is not a regular. She is like one of those mistakes you do one night and you keep it a secret all you life because you are very embarrased. Keller, she keeps coming back ...for more :P.

Nusku

July 12th, 2008, 02:04 AM

Are you by any chance a teen male? :p

Only in spirit... :)

Larrin's only been in like two episodes hasn't she? Wow, what an impact she's made, rock!!! :cool:

Shan Bruce Lee

July 12th, 2008, 02:24 AM

I don't remember when I voted, but I obviously did because I see the results...
I'm pretty sure I chose "Other" because I like all of those characters. If I had to pick somebody to "go" I'd pick all the villains... What can I say? I like to see the good guys win.

stayin away from the sandbox fights

*subrosa*

July 12th, 2008, 02:37 AM

well... like most of the people here (80 others...) I put my vote on our sweet Dr. Jennifer Keller. Ditch her!

Klenotka

July 12th, 2008, 03:08 AM

yeah, I'm really looking forward to see more Teyla...

Yeah, I am sooo excited about it, too:rolleyes:

Integrabyte

July 12th, 2008, 03:28 AM

Only in spirit... :)

Larrin's only been in like two episodes hasn't she? Wow, what an impact she's made, rock!!! :cool:

Talk about a silver lining :).

g.o.d

July 12th, 2008, 03:31 AM

Keller, she keeps coming back ...for more :P.

and she will be there until time stops...Teyla even longer :p

Falcon Horus

July 12th, 2008, 03:36 AM

Only in spirit... :)

:lol:

Linda06

July 12th, 2008, 03:58 AM

<mod snip: replies to a deleted post>

and she will be there until time stops...Teyla even longer :p

Oh i so hope Teyla will be there will the world ends :D ;)

Iyakamae

July 12th, 2008, 09:01 AM

I don't particularly care for Teyla. She can go as far as I am concerned. The rest I can live with very happily.

Reiko

July 12th, 2008, 11:00 AM

She is not a regular. She is like one of those mistakes you do one night and you keep it a secret all you life because you are very embarrased. Keller, she keeps coming back ...for more :P.

» Which, I conclude, is why Keller is worse than Larrin. Who knows, she just might turn out to be another Lucius (okay, not as bad) - the mistake they just want you to forget. ;)

jenks

July 12th, 2008, 11:35 AM

Like Weir?

LadyBozi

July 12th, 2008, 12:22 PM

After S&R ...I'm STILL convinced that Keller should go. lol

Khentkawes

July 12th, 2008, 12:40 PM

We could keep Lorne and Zelenka and then just get rid of everybody else. :D
That would work for me.

Skydiver

July 12th, 2008, 12:43 PM

works fo rme :)

gotta keep my lorney

stclare

July 14th, 2008, 09:41 AM

works fo rme :)

gotta keep my lorney

Sorry, no Rodney, no dice ;)

desh

July 14th, 2008, 01:08 PM

Rac80

July 14th, 2008, 01:09 PM

I can easily live without listening to rodney's incessant whining! :S

Linda06

July 14th, 2008, 01:13 PM

I can easily live without listening to rodney's incessant whining! :S

Aye me too but after watching S & R i've given him a temporary reprieve.....I just hope he's like this the rest of S5 and doesn't revert back to S4 Rodney!

Earthgate Ricky

July 14th, 2008, 01:32 PM

Keller

I rather have Dr. Carson Beckett to replace her.

CaroLing

July 14th, 2008, 03:19 PM

Wow! I was suprised to see how many voted for Doc Keller. Probably since she's the new kid on the block and hasnt really established herself as part of the team. She's alot damsel in distress and not much creatively proactive in tense situation like Beckett was.

Im not sure any of the main characters should go. We're still licking our wounds from the loss of Weir (a huge blow to the team) now with Sam Carter essentially gone I dont think it would be wise to get rid of any other.

My vote is for Kavanaugh just because its completely random and he's a whining little brat.

Ltcolshepjumper

July 14th, 2008, 04:04 PM

Keller; she was introduced very hurriedly and was never written well as a character. I think if the writers had spent more time designing the character, she might have worked out better. They still can save her if they write her a compelling story arc, just as they did for Teyla and Carson.

Keller was introduced very hurriedly because they needed to replace Beckett before season 4. She was written poorly because her sole purpose was to fill in Beckett's spot.

GateGipsy

July 14th, 2008, 04:29 PM

You forgot the 'in my opinion' part of that post :)

Rac80

July 14th, 2008, 06:25 PM

Aye me too but after watching S & R i've given him a temporary reprieve.....I just hope he's like this the rest of S5 and doesn't revert back to S4 Rodney!

Me too! I do not want to see a replay of his part in quarantine. it made me cringe for him and poor Katie!

Integrabyte

July 14th, 2008, 09:55 PM

84 is my new favourite number :)

Lenas

July 15th, 2008, 05:34 AM

84 is my new favourite number :)

85 someone:)

She was written poorly because her sole purpose was to fill in Beckett's spot

Could be, but I think her sole purpose was to attract the male characters (as well as the male viewers,) setting her up in ridiculous "romantic" situations:mad:
Any doctor in the infirmary could have taken the job, should have taken the job, so we could have a real doctor in Atlantis - she never wanted the position from the beginning anyway!

elliecat

July 15th, 2008, 05:41 AM

85 someone:)

Could be, but I think her sole purpose was to attract the male characters (as well as the male viewers,) setting her up in ridiculous "romantic" situations:mad:
Any doctor in the infirmary could have taken the job, should have taken the job, so we could have a real doctor in Atlantis - she never wanted the position from the beginning anyway!

I would love to make it 85 but I already voted for her. :)

Those are good reasons why she should go. It wouldn't be very hard to replace her. And, like you said, she didn't want the position anyway so why not bring in someone who wants the job?! (cough*Carson*cough). If not Carson then i'm sure there are other doctors more willing to come to Atlantis.

g.o.d

July 15th, 2008, 08:56 AM

I would love to make it 85 but I already voted for her. :)

Those are good reasons why she should go. It wouldn't be very hard to replace her. And, like you said, she didn't want the position anyway so why not bring in someone who wants the job?! (cough*Carson*cough). If not Carson then i'm sure there are other doctors more willing to come to Atlantis.

Dr. Who

Linda06

July 15th, 2008, 09:20 AM

Me too! I do not want to see a replay of his part in quarantine. it made me cringe for him and poor Katie!

Oh i know......He was bloody aweful in quarantine.........No wonder Katie dumped his sorry ass....She saw the real McKay....I just wish she gagged him with something to shut him up for 5 minutes!

elliecat

July 15th, 2008, 09:37 AM

Dr. Who

Much better! :)

Reiko

July 15th, 2008, 09:41 AM

» Hee, Dr. Who - yes! :D Or House, who I guess could be called the complete opposite of Keller :P

GateGipsy

July 15th, 2008, 09:45 AM

House and McKay. Now that would make an interesting pairing.

jelgate

July 15th, 2008, 10:08 AM

Dr. WhoPlease no. That would prevent me from ever watching SGA again

g.o.d

July 15th, 2008, 10:12 AM

or Doctor Cottle from BSG

Alipeeps

July 15th, 2008, 10:37 AM

House and McKay. Now that would make an interesting pairing.

You mean you haven't already read the numerous House/SGA crossover fanfics? :eek: :rolleyes:

Ltcolshepjumper

July 15th, 2008, 12:24 PM

Ltcolshepjumper

July 15th, 2008, 12:24 PM

You forgot the 'in my opinion' part of that post :)

It's implied. There are many people who "forget" to put that in.

Rac80

July 15th, 2008, 07:32 PM

Oh i know......He was bloody aweful in quarantine.........No wonder Katie dumped his sorry ass....She saw the real McKay....I just wish she gagged him with something to shut him up for 5 minutes!

LOL What bothered me about Katie is that she appeared still willing to marry him until he said he needed space. :S:S she was pretty and smart...she should NOT have been that desperate! :S

A Wraith Named Bob

July 15th, 2008, 08:47 PM

Integrabyte

July 15th, 2008, 10:54 PM

Larrin. She offers little to the show other than sex appeal and a possible relationship with John. If the show were to pursue that line of storytelling, it would truly be a turn for the worse for the show.

Every woman they meet offers that :p. Hell, I bet Lucius wanted to grab some John behind but he could not :P.

Icedragon

July 15th, 2008, 11:48 PM

I voted Sheppard, its not I don't like him, It's just if one had to go I would want it to be him, or Teyla. But I hope they stay.

SierraGolf-OneNiner

July 16th, 2008, 01:00 AM

I just voted for or should I say against Keller.

I stopped watching Atlantis because of her. I couldn't help myself. I had to come back to the forum to see what you guys think of the new season. As I feared Keller got even worse than before. So there is no reason for me to watch this crap. Maybe we get lucky and TPTB see the light one day and remove this god awfull character once and for all from the franchise. One can hope.

pjt

July 16th, 2008, 01:05 AM

Lahela

July 16th, 2008, 01:07 AM

SierraGolf-OneNiner

July 16th, 2008, 01:09 AM

Wyrminarrd

July 16th, 2008, 01:10 AM

I voted Teyla. Seeing as how she has become a mother it makes little sense to be sending her on dangerous missions. If she isn´t on the main team then her character won´t be needed for the show and a new member should get the air time that would otherwise be spent on Teyla.

SierraGolf-OneNiner

July 16th, 2008, 01:11 AM

Lenas

July 16th, 2008, 02:01 AM

Nah. I think the relationships were an attempt to make her character more interesting.

Then there's that. Of course it had the exact opposite effect. She is everything but interesting, thank god for the mute button:):)

pjt

July 16th, 2008, 03:13 AM

This has been discussed at length - I suggest you go back a few pages and read there ;)

Believe me I've tried, but fell asleep somewhere on the 43th page of Weir vs. Carter. :D

Integrabyte

July 16th, 2008, 04:04 AM

Reiko

July 16th, 2008, 06:40 AM

If the show were to pursue that line of storytelling, it would truly be a turn for the worse for the show.

» How many more turns for the worse can we afford? :S

I just voted for or should I say against Keller.
I stopped watching Atlantis because of her. I couldn't help myself. I had to come back to the forum to see what you guys think of the new season. As I feared Keller got even worse than before. So there is no reason for me to watch this crap. Maybe we get lucky and TPTB see the light one day and remove this god awfull character once and for all from the franchise. One can hope.

» You should come to the Anti-Keller and Complaints threads. Misery loves company, and we're on the same page as you. We have serious discussions in addition to our weekend partying :)

maxbo

July 16th, 2008, 07:06 AM

OK, so tell me please, what have you all got against female characters on Atlantis?
Dr. Jennifer Keller 31.37%
Teyla Emmagan 14.76%
Larrin 20.66%
---------------------------------
Total: 66.79%

Please tell me, you're (mostly) women...

As for the poll, I don't feel like losing any character now, but adding or removing characters never was the main reason I watch or don't watch a show.

Unfortunately, this negativity against the women of Atlantis is nothing new - it's been there since the beginning. Why? I'm not quite sure because I've found that the reasons given for disliking Elizabeth and Teyla (bad writing, wall-papering, etc.) also apply to the male characters, yet the male characters have never received the same degree of negativity.

If this negativity had started after Season 1 (which I thought was well-balanced), then I wouldn't be so puzzled because although I believe the writing for all the characters suffered after Season 1, TPTB really dropped the ball with Teyla and Elizabeth.

And the writing only got worse for the new female characters, Keller and Larrin. Unlike when they write for Michael, Todd and other male recurring/guest characters in the past, TPTB didn't even try to make Keller and Larrin interesting and dynamic individuals.

Larrin was written mainly as the chick in leather who toyed with Shep when she should have been so much more. There's nothing wrong with having her toy with Shep, but I wish TPTB would have concentrated on writing her as an interesting character in her own right first.

As for Keller, they didn't even try to make her a believable character because she's too young and too fish out of water to be a credible CMO. I'm still amazed that TPTB believed the audience would love this character when they didn't even bother to figure out who she was before they devoted so much airtime to her. They write her as a wide-eyed ingenue, yet we're supposed to believe that she has the experience and temperment to head Atlantis' medical department.

I'm convinced that had Keller and Larrin been male characters TPTB would have taken more care in writing them.

Linda06

July 16th, 2008, 09:57 AM

LOL What bothered me about Katie is that she appeared still willing to marry him until he said he needed space. :S:S she was pretty and smart...she should NOT have been that desperate! :S

Yeah i know....Desperate much :S I mean come on,it's not like Rodney's Johnny Depp or something!

OK, so tell me please, what have you all got against female characters on Atlantis?
Dr. Jennifer Keller 31.37%
Teyla Emmagan 14.76%
Larrin 20.66%
---------------------------------
Total: 66.79%

Please tell me, you're (mostly) women...

As for the poll, I don't feel like losing any character now, but adding or removing characters never was the main reason I watch or don't watch a show.

Well Larrin is nothing but a dominatrix...A scantily clad alien chick shoving her assets into everyone's faces :S And the worse ever character ever to appear on any Stargate ep.......IMHO mind you ;)

I love Teyla...She's my fave character and i could never turn against her :D

Juries still out for me on Keller so i can't say one way or another........But she ain't anywhere near as annoying as the moan a minute king whiner!

jckfan55

July 16th, 2008, 10:05 AM

I think the problem with women characters is that TPTB often don't write them particularly well. I like Teyla, but IMHO there have been many missed opportunities there too.

But I'm a heretic who has never been a particular fan of Shep & Rodney annoys the **** out of me. Of course, neither of them would ever be leaving.

pjt

July 16th, 2008, 10:36 AM

Well Larrin is nothing but a dominatrix...A scantily clad alien chick shoving her assets into everyone's faces :S And the worse ever character ever to appear on any Stargate ep.......IMHO mind you ;)

Let me try my best Chandler voice: Could she BE more cool? :D
Nah, actually I kind of like her, I just enjoyed how many times she double crossed Sheppard, and he's still totally smitten.

As for Jewel Staite, she was my favorite on Firefly, so I was happy to have her on Atlantis, and as her character doesn't bother me much (I mean I'm OK with it), I'm happy to have her in the series.

As for Teyla, I'm currently re-watching season 3, and just found out, she was completely missing, or wasn't she? :)

Linda06

July 16th, 2008, 11:25 AM

Let me try my best Chandler voice: Could she BE more cool? :D
Nah, actually I kind of like her, I just enjoyed how many times she double crossed Sheppard, and he's still totally smitten.

As for Jewel Staite, she was my favorite on Firefly, so I was happy to have her on Atlantis, and as her character doesn't bother me much (I mean I'm OK with it), I'm happy to have her in the series.

As for Teyla, I'm currently re-watching season 3, and just found out, she was completely missing, or wasn't she? :)

:lol: Aye Larrins ok......If ya like half naked leather wearing chicks flaunting everything in front of you.......Wait,are you a guy.........Um never mind,forget i said anything ;)

Rac80

July 16th, 2008, 11:26 AM

OK, so tell me please, what have you all got against female characters on Atlantis?
Dr. Jennifer Keller 31.37%
Teyla Emmagan 14.76%
Larrin 20.66%
---------------------------------
Total: 66.79%

Please tell me, you're (mostly) women...

As for the poll, I don't feel like losing any character now, but adding or removing characters never was the main reason I watch or don't watch a show.
I am a female and only dislike Larrin because she is used simply to objectify women. :S

Yeah i know....Desperate much :S I mean come on,it's not like Rodney's Johnny Depp or something!

Well Larrin is nothing but a dominatrix...A scantily clad alien chick shoving her assets into everyone's faces :S And the worse ever character ever to appear on any Stargate ep.......IMHO mind you ;)

I love Teyla...She's my fave character and i could never turn against her :D

Juries still out for me on Keller so i can't say one way or another........But she ain't anywhere near as annoying as the moan a minute king whiner!

I refer to mckay and carson as the moan-a-minute twins. Others complain about Jennifer's whining BUT the same people find the guys' whining to be cute. :S go figure ;)
you need to find this (http://forum.gateworld.net/showthread.php?t=56613) thread to find like-minded people! ;)
I like Jennifer and like the idea of a "fish out of water " character. shows us how a "regular" person would react to atlantis et al. IMHO 99% of us would not handle everything half as well as she does.

I think the problem with women characters is that TPTB often don't write them particularly well. I like Teyla, but IMHO there have been many missed opportunities there too.

But I'm a heretic who has never been a particular fan of Shep & Rodney annoys the **** out of me. Of course, neither of them would ever be leaving.
Yep i really get sick of the McShep hour... I enjoyed S & R in part because rodney was stuck with Lorne who has no problem shutting him up! It's always a pleasure to see lorne slap him down verbally! :D

Linda06

July 16th, 2008, 11:29 AM

I refer to mckay and carson as the moan-a-minute twins. Others complain about Jennifer's whining BUT the same people find the guys' whining to be cute. :S go figure ;)
you need to find this (http://forum.gateworld.net/showthread.php?t=56613) thread to find like-minded people! ;)
I like Jennifer and like the idea of a "fish out of water " character. shows us how a "regular" person would react to atlantis et al. IMHO 99% of us would not handle everything half as well as she does.

I know what's with that........Keller doesn't even whine half as much as McKay and isn't nearly as annoying...Oh well.....Oh sweet...Off to checky it outy!

Yep i really get sick of the McShep hour... I enjoyed S & R in part because rodney was stuck with Lorne who has no problem shutting him up! It's always a pleasure to see lorne slap him down verbally! :D

Lorne can slap me any time.......Um did i just say that out loud :o

pjt

July 16th, 2008, 11:31 AM

:lol: Aye Larrins ok......If ya like half naked leather wearing chicks flaunting everything in front of you.......Wait,are you a guy.........Um never mind,forget i said anything ;)

It's a fair cop, been caught red handed, guilty... ;)

stclare

July 16th, 2008, 11:40 AM

I am a female and only dislike Larrin because she is used simply to objectify women. :S

I refer to mckay and carson as the moan-a-minute twins. Others complain about Jennifer's whining BUT the same people find the guys' whining to be cute. :S go figure ;)
you need to find this (http://forum.gateworld.net/showthread.php?t=56613) thread to find like-minded people! ;)
I like Jennifer and like the idea of a "fish out of water " character. shows us how a "regular" person would react to atlantis et al. IMHO 99% of us would not handle everything half as well as she does.

Yep i really get sick of the McShep hour... I enjoyed S & R in part because rodney was stuck with Lorne who has no problem shutting him up! It's always a pleasure to see lorne slap him down verbally! :D

as for the blue, actually i find it quite easy to love Rodney and dislike keller there are different types of whining ;) also ive grown with Rodney over the 4 years I havent had that opportunity with Keller, not sure I hope i will either !

But the thing is she shouldn't be acting like a regular person should she. shes meant to be a genius, who did all her medical training ,gained experince in leading a team and i would hope trauma surgery and is able to handle the job as CMO.

I would like her a lot more and in fact enjoy her on screen more when she isnt making situations all about her and her childhood traumas. S&R was kinda good and bad for me keller wise

initialy i felt she was ok, the playing with the insides and the allowing shep to go off even though he needed surgery like now! not ok. i dont blame keller for that just the writting fir her at times.

Different horses for different courses :) i think the one thing we both would agree on is love triangles = BAD

Linda06

July 16th, 2008, 11:40 AM

It's a fair cop, been caught red handed, guilty... ;)

oooooh ouch......Better be more careful then ;)

Reiko

July 16th, 2008, 11:55 AM

» I'm with stclare that Rodney is much easier to like than Keller as Keller is much easier to hate.

» For one, McKay isn't throwing a pathetic pity party almost 24/7.

Integrabyte

July 16th, 2008, 11:37 PM

**cue drums :p**

Rodney will never get on my nerves like Keller. I could not stand SG1 Rodney but he was cooler than Keller.

Linda06

July 17th, 2008, 09:09 AM

There's nothing cool about Rodney!

SpelCzech

July 17th, 2008, 09:21 AM

There's nothing cool about Rodney!

You are right - He's HOT!!!! ;)

Linda06

July 17th, 2008, 09:23 AM

You are right - He's HOT!!!! ;)

:lol: Aye right...NOT ;)

I think Zelenka is nicer looking.....He's such a sweetie...I'd rather see him as a regular than Rodney :D

bluealien

July 17th, 2008, 09:35 AM

» I'm with stclare that Rodney is much easier to like than Keller as Keller is much easier to hate.

» For one, McKay isn't throwing a pathetic pity party almost 24/7.

Either is Keller..

Ancient 1

July 17th, 2008, 11:47 AM

I can't believe Keller is leading in this poll....but then again: I am a hetero male with all that it implies. :D

Ancient 1

July 17th, 2008, 11:48 AM

I can't believe Keller is leading in this poll....but then again: I am a hetero male with all that it implies. :D
Even though my choice was Teyla....hmm.

GateLadyM

July 17th, 2008, 11:52 AM

I can't believe Keller is leading in this poll....but then again: I am a hetero male with all that it implies. :D

There are lots of hot chicks with empty brains. Might be fun for awhile, but don't you get bored with them eventually?

PG15

July 17th, 2008, 11:54 AM

Of course, though I don't see how that applies Atlantis...

Pegasus_SGA

July 17th, 2008, 11:55 AM

There are lots of hot chicks with empty brains. Might be fun for awhile, but don't you get bored with them eventually?
So you think a doctor has got an empty brain, and someone who was the leader of her people. Interesting.

GateLadyM

July 17th, 2008, 12:30 PM

So you think a doctor has got an empty brain, and someone who was the leader of her people. Interesting.

Keller is the one with the empty skull. She isn't a leader of anyone or anything.

jenks

July 17th, 2008, 12:33 PM

She's an MD, clearly she has brains, and given her age, probably more than most.

PG15

July 17th, 2008, 12:36 PM

You know, it seems a lot of people want Keller gone because she flirts a lot. Well, I've been watching Season 1 of Atlantis and the amount of "flirting" has been hilariously plentiful. Most of these moments involve Sheppard (obviously) and, wait for it...Beckett.

Sheppard:

1. Rising: There was obviously something happening between him and Teyla when they first met, as well as with the necklace thing. Friendly gesture or flirting...you decide.

2. 38 Minutes: At the end, he smiles at the pretty nurse tending to him.

3. Underground: He smiles at Sora, and then dorkily defends himself.

4. Home: Shep sure dreamt up a loooot of hot ladies at his party.

5. Sanctuary: Self-explanatory.

Beckett:

1. Rising: At the end, he laments that he can't bag a hot lady like Teyla. ;)

2. Poisoning the Well: Yeah, I was pretty surprised when I saw this and saw how...entranced (http://www.gateworld.net/gallery/displayimage.php?album=258&pos=68) Beckett (http://www.gateworld.net/gallery/displayimage.php?album=258&pos=69) was (http://www.gateworld.net/gallery/displayimage.php?album=258&pos=77) with Perna. And the dialogue just reinforced that...

BECKETT (smiling in a soppy way): Carson. Beckett. Doctor. I mean, call me Carson. (He grins at her.)

McKAY: I'm, uh, Doctor McKay, Doctor Rodney McKay. (He smiles and holds out his hand for her to shake. She looks at him, confused, ignoring his hand, then turns to Carson.)

PERNA: I hope you will find our facilities suitable.

BECKETT: Oh, they're charming! Perfectly charming! (He grins at her again.)

You sly dog, you.

3. Sanctuary: Sure, because "Well my dear. It seems you are just as lovely on the inside as you are on the out. If health is synonymous with beauty..." is just a simple compliment. ;)

4. And later he started dating Cadman.

Anyway, if I wasn't convinced that there's a double standard regarding Keller's "flirtatious" attitude before, I sure am now. Beckett was twice the flirt she ever was, while Shep is just in a whoooole other league.

Luckily, I'm ok with the fact that our characters may have sex drives. ;)

Pegasus_SGA

July 17th, 2008, 12:37 PM

Keller is the one with the empty skull. She isn't a leader of anyone or anything.

But your post infered to hot chicks, plural, did you just mean Keller then? So you're inferring a person can't be hot and clever? :S

ETA: PG15, that's because Shep's a slut! ;) You should know that by now, babes, and I believe a thread was created just for him. Oh the good old days. ;) :P :D

GateLadyM

July 17th, 2008, 12:44 PM

But your post infered to hot chicks, plural, did you just mean Keller then? So you're inferring a person can't be hot and clever? :S

You're just twisting my words and trying to start a fight. *sigh*

I feel Keller brings new meaning to the phrase "dumb blonde". Maybe that's just me, but I roll my eyes every time she starts talking. And for those who say, "OH MY GOD, SHE IS HOT, I LOVE HER!" Well, since when does being beautiful make someone an interesting character? Keller is pretty, but like I said, IMO, she is about a useful as a chunk of concrete.

Reiko

July 17th, 2008, 12:46 PM

Beckett:
1. Rising: At the end, he laments that he can't bag a hot lady like Teyla. ;)

» "Bag" is a completely inappropriate term, and I don't think Carson was referring to "bagging" Teyla in this scene. It was wistful, not jealously horny.

» It's not just the flirtiness that counts, either, but I'm still not convinced.

Luckily, I'm ok with the fact that our characters may have sex drives. ;)

» Are you okay with the fact that one of them is lacking brain cells?

jenks

July 17th, 2008, 12:49 PM

^^She was reduced to recurring in season 4 and won't come back for season 5, try to keep up.

Pegasus_SGA

July 17th, 2008, 01:03 PM

You're just twisting my words and trying to start a fight. *sigh*

I feel Keller brings new meaning to the phrase "dumb blonde". Maybe that's just me, but I roll my eyes every time she starts talking. And for those who say, "OH MY GOD, SHE IS HOT, I LOVE HER!" Well, since when does being beautiful make someone an interesting character? Keller is pretty, but like I said, IMO, she is about a useful as a chunk of concrete.

Nope not trying to start a fight, because i'm off to bed in a minute. :lol: From your post you were talking about hot chicks, and there are 3 hot chicks in SGA, Sam, Teyla and Keller. Given Sam is gone, I honestly thought you were referring to Teyla and Keller.

Keller is not my fave character for the record. I like characters with a bit of gumption, she had a bit in S&R so there may be hope. ;) But tbh so what if people like her just because she's hot? :lol: Not everyone cares about the characters, some just watch for the eye candy, ah those pesky demographics. ;)

metabog

July 17th, 2008, 01:18 PM

Dunno I like Keller. I don't get why everyone hates her, she's a better actor than most of the team, and her character actually has a different way of talking and acting (Sheppard is so stagnant and uninspired, it almost bores me to watch him). The fact that you don't like her because she is whiney proves that she works as a character. She is SUPPOSED to be whiney. She is supposed to redeem herself, we can't have perfect characters everywhere, otherwise the show stagnates. The character isn't bad, in fact it's brilliant, and Jewel State is just as brilliant as an actor.

Honestly, the character I dislike most in Atlantis is Sheppard. He's just such a stereotypical American leader type character, there is basically nothing interesting about him. They tried bringing up some back story and stuff in Epiphany and that episode where we see his brother and ex-wife, but it was nothing interesting or well executed. I'm really sorry, as he started off as such a promising character. Atlantis and Stargate in general needs new damn writers. I am sorry to say it but I am tired of the current writing team, the ideas for all the episodes have been done to death, there is basically nothing brilliant about the show anymore, nothing to make it special, while other shows like LOST and BSG are just genius, and have gone beyond classic science fiction. Every time I watch it, I feel as if I'm doing it for the sake of... doing it, but at the end of the episode I am always dissatisfied. And it has SO much damn potential... but the writers keep doing whatever the hell they want to do and everything goes to hell. I've been rewatching the first few seasons of SG-1 and it was soooo soooo much better. There was actual emotion and you actually cared about the characters. In later seasons, you could look at Daniel and tell that even he doesn't seem to care that much anymore. It's probably because I expect some art in the tv shows that I watch, and Atlantis has become just way too commercial, there is not a little bit of brilliance or originality in it.

I went overboard a bit, but yeah. I guess I'm suffering from the after effects of how crappy Continuum was after waiting for so long. I'm still watching it and buying it though, because it's freaking Stargate.

Woolsey has a lot of potential, but of course TPTB will make him a horrible character and everyone will hate him.

pjt

July 17th, 2008, 01:52 PM

Dunno I like Keller. I don't get why everyone hates her,

TPTB got rid of our beloved Dr. Carson Beckett, so every doctor on the show, who is not Carson must be bad. ;)

PG15

July 17th, 2008, 03:00 PM

» "Bag" is a completely inappropriate term, and I don't think Carson was referring to "bagging" Teyla in this scene. It was wistful, not jealously horny.

» It's not just the flirtiness that counts, either, but I'm still not convinced.

Of course you're not.

» Are you okay with the fact that one of them is lacking brain cells?

You mean Weir? As I recall, those missing/damaged brain cells were made anew thanks to Keller, McKay, and nanites.

Ackeb

July 17th, 2008, 03:17 PM

Going to have to go with Caldwell. Cant stand him. Acts like hes in charge but alwasy acves to pressure from Shep or Sam or whoever. I say he we fly him in to a sun.

Rac80

July 17th, 2008, 03:18 PM

I know what's with that........Keller doesn't even whine half as much as McKay and isn't nearly as annoying...Oh well.....Oh sweet...Off to checky it outy!

Lorne can slap me any time.......Um did i just say that out loud :o
HA! yep you did. ;)

I can't believe Keller is leading in this poll....but then again: I am a hetero male with all that it implies. :D

hm yep if you say so. BUT not all of us like/dislike keller for sexual reasons. I am a hetero female who finds the character refreshing. :D

You know, it seems a lot of people want Keller gone because she flirts a lot. Well, I've been watching Season 1 of Atlantis and the amount of "flirting" has been hilariously plentiful. Most of these moments involve Sheppard (obviously) and, wait for it...Beckett.

Sheppard:

1. Rising: There was obviously something happening between him and Teyla when they first met, as well as with the necklace thing. Friendly gesture or flirting...you decide.

2. 38 Minutes: At the end, he smiles at the pretty nurse tending to him.

3. Underground: He smiles at Sora, and then dorkily defends himself.

4. Home: Shep sure dreamt up a loooot of hot ladies at his party.

5. Sanctuary: Self-explanatory.

Beckett:

1. Rising: At the end, he laments that he can't bag a hot lady like Teyla. ;)

2. Poisoning the Well: Yeah, I was pretty surprised when I saw this and saw how...entranced (http://www.gateworld.net/gallery/displayimage.php?album=258&pos=68) Beckett (http://www.gateworld.net/gallery/displayimage.php?album=258&pos=69) was (http://www.gateworld.net/gallery/displayimage.php?album=258&pos=77) with Perna. And the dialogue just reinforced that...

You sly dog, you.

3. Sanctuary: Sure, because "Well my dear. It seems you are just as lovely on the inside as you are on the out. If health is synonymous with beauty..." is just a simple compliment. ;)

4. And later he started dating Cadman.

Anyway, if I wasn't convinced that there's a double standard regarding Keller's "flirtatious" attitude before, I sure am now. Beckett was twice the flirt she ever was, while Shep is just in a whoooole other league.

Luckily, I'm ok with the fact that our characters may have sex drives. ;)

Never try to confuse people with logic... it makes them whine! ;) good points though!

Back ON TOPIC-
goodbye to the moan-a-minute twins! :) they should leave for the good of Teyla's baby... they don't want to set a bad example!

GateofDOOM

July 17th, 2008, 04:15 PM

*Sigh* For, hopefully, the last freaking time.

I dislike Keller because I think she is as interesting as a brick.

Alas, love triangles are not really my thing. Particularly when half of the main cast are involved. Hopefully this thing turns out to be more steam and smoke then anything else, but the amount of times it's been brought up in interviews etc. doesn't exactly inspire me with confidence. Still, I disliked Keller before I heard anything of love triangles, before she flirted with Ronon and McKay.

TPTB could stand to have a female character that Kirks (flirts, I guess, for the reactionaries) like Sheppard does. Why not? If it is about equality after all...
Keller could definitely use a less timid personality. Maybe if she actually flirted with more men she'd be more interesting. Who knows?

Oh and I wasn't that upset when they killed Carson off. I thought Sunday was a very good episode and very poignant. So that's not why I dislike her either. I liked Carson, but I understand why they did it. Sometimes you have to shake things up. Carson is not why I dislike Keller.

Just because you don't understand why someone might have a different opinion then you doesn't mean you can brush it aside with generalizations and act like it's a more irrational opinion then your own.

Keller utterly fails to engage or entertain me. That is why I dislike her. You can be as baffled about my opinion as you like. You can love Keller as much as you like, but acting like the people who hold different opinions then you are emotional wrecks/shut ins with no social lives is not okay. Seriously.

I don't like Keller. That's it, that's all.

JohnDuh

July 17th, 2008, 04:32 PM

Keller is the one with the empty skull. She isn't a leader of anyone or anything.

Irrational comment not based on what has been show in the series. She is very intelligent we have been show and told that, has a lot of degrees and know a lot.

JohnDuh

July 17th, 2008, 04:34 PM

You know, it seems a lot of people want Keller gone because she flirts a lot.

Which isn't based in fact either. She had a bit of an encounter with Ronon in ONE episode, and she asked McKay out for a drink in another episode, and that might just have been friendly camaraderie. It would appear some people just make up things in order to support their hate.

Pajus

July 17th, 2008, 06:29 PM

She's an MD, clearly she has brains, and given her age, probably more than most.

Okay... <mod snip> accept the fact that Keller having an MD and being allowed to practice medicine on her own at this age is illegal where she comes from, leaving the door open for nasty theories

» Are you okay with the fact that one of them is lacking brain cells?

Just one?

Cautious Explorer

July 17th, 2008, 07:27 PM

Just because you don't understand why someone might have a different opinion then you doesn't mean you can brush it aside with generalizations and act like it's a more irrational opinion then your own.

Keller utterly fails to engage or entertain me. That is why I dislike her. You can be as baffled about my opinion as you like. You can love Keller as much as you like, but acting like the people who hold different opinions then you are emotional wrecks/shut ins with no social lives is not okay. Seriously.

I don't like Keller. That's it, that's all.

Well said.

Irrational comment not based on what has been show in the series. She is very intelligent we have been show and told that, has a lot of degrees and know a lot.

I don't think we have been shown Keller's intelligence. That's part of the problem for me. We've been told many times, but I'm not seeing it in her actions.

People that are outstanding in their field, no matter how screwed up they may be in other areas of their life, tend to show great confidence while using their skills. Keller seems unsure and hesitant too often, too often goes into a monotone when discussing medicine (where's the enthusiasm for her craft?). She brings to mind someone who is struggling to learn, not someone who's mastered her craft.

Which isn't based in fact either. She had a bit of an encounter with Ronon in ONE episode, and she asked McKay out for a drink in another episode, and that might just have been friendly camaraderie. It would appear some people just make up things in order to support their hate.

I don't think most people want Keller gone just because she flirts on occasion. That's the tip of the iceburg. IMO it's a greater irritant than it otherwise would be because Keller isn't that strong of a character to begin with. With not much else to make her stand out, the flrting stands out more.

And, in my mind, it doesn't really fit with what else we've been told about Keller. She's socially awkward, has always had trouble fitting in (per her remarks to Ronon), she's visibly awkward in her bedside manner and has a tendency to put her foot in her mouth, she often comes across as timid and unsure when talkiing with others (at least the command staff of Atlantis), yet she's somehow comfortable flirting with both Ronon and Rodney? It's a bit incongruous to me.

Her character is too inconsistent. She's smart, but asks all the stupid questions; she's timid, but flirtatious; she behaves like a medical student, but she's the best of the best in her field with years of experience; she didn't want to be head of medicine, yet she later says she applied for the job. She doesn't make sense.

ToasterOnFire

July 17th, 2008, 07:36 PM

While I can see Keller as a decent doctor, I have yet to see anything indicating why she was specifically chosen as CMO. She's sorely lacking in leadership skills and acts more like a perky resident than the person in charge.

hedwig

July 17th, 2008, 07:59 PM

Which isn't based in fact either. She had a bit of an encounter with Ronon in ONE episode, and she asked McKay out for a drink in another episode, and that might just have been friendly camaraderie. It would appear some people just make up things in order to support their hate.

A minor note ... Keller asked McKay out for a drink in "Trio" because he supposedly lost a bet with her and she was collecting on the bet.:)

PG15

July 17th, 2008, 08:51 PM

And, in my mind, it doesn't really fit with what else we've been told about Keller. She's socially awkward, has always had trouble fitting in (per her remarks to Ronon), she's visibly awkward in her bedside manner and has a tendency to put her foot in her mouth, she often comes across as timid and unsure when talkiing with others (at least the command staff of Atlantis), yet she's somehow comfortable flirting with both Ronon and Rodney? It's a bit incongruous to me.

Oh trust me; you can be socially awkward and still flirt.

I know from experience.

Rac80

July 18th, 2008, 08:24 AM

Well said.

I don't think we have been shown Keller's intelligence. That's part of the problem for me. We've been told many times, but I'm not seeing it in her actions.

People that are outstanding in their field, no matter how screwed up they may be in other areas of their life, tend to show great confidence while using their skills. Keller seems unsure and hesitant too often, too often goes into a monotone when discussing medicine (where's the enthusiasm for her craft?). She brings to mind someone who is struggling to learn, not someone who's mastered her craft.

<snipped for size>

Keller fits in well with others in atlantis who are hesitant and unsure... can we compare her to Rodney's incessant whining????? atleast she doesn't treat others like crap when she is unsure. ;)

Oh trust me; you can be socially awkward and still flirt.

I know from experience.

LOL mental green for ya! ;)

Recently rewatched Sg1's moebius 1&2 and it confirmed for me that SGA's whining rodney needs to go! ;)

Arica15

July 18th, 2008, 09:19 AM

Linda06

July 18th, 2008, 09:35 AM

At least Rodney is entertaining whining or not. I'm afraid entertaining is not a word I've ever associated with Keller.

I wouldn't call Rodney entertaining......He's really annoying at the best of times :S

Klenotka

July 18th, 2008, 10:25 AM

Hmm, as I see it even with the beginning of S5, Teyla is for me still the one who should go. They should have sent here away years ago, instead of Elizabeth, who at least did something.

Cautious Explorer

July 18th, 2008, 10:47 AM

Keller fits in well with others in atlantis who are hesitant and unsure... can we compare her to Rodney's incessant whining????? atleast she doesn't treat others like crap when she is unsure. ;)

But who are those other department heads who are insecure in their abilities? I haven't noticed them.

She isn't the same type of egomaniac as McKay, but she surely is just as self-absorbed in her own way. Look at Missing (sorry, about your people Teyla, but on the bright side, I'm going home to visit my dad.)

There are a lot of episodes where Rodney gets on my nerves, but there are also episodes where he's entertaining. I can't say that about Keller. She's pretty bland. Rodney's sarcasm saves his character IMO, without that you've just got.....Keller.

At least Rodney is entertaining whining or not. I'm afraid entertaining is not a word I've ever associated with Keller.

I agree.

Mike272

July 18th, 2008, 12:24 PM

All of them. Replace them with a new cast. See what happens.

Nothing against the current cast, just think it'll be an interesting and creative idea :P

Ugg! I'm SO tired of hearing that! They've killed off enough characters already in Atlantis, and, unlike in SG-1, they (producers) DON'T bring them back! (i.e. killing Daniel god-knows how many times)

Personally, if they're heck-bent on killing someone off, it should be some, lesser, non-reoccurring character...

Rac80

July 18th, 2008, 02:50 PM

I wouldn't call Rodney entertaining......He's really annoying at the best of times :S

ITA, I have NEVER found whining to be entertaining! I prefer NICE people. an egomanic like mckay is not a nice person.

Linda06

July 18th, 2008, 03:00 PM

ITA, I have NEVER found whining to be entertaining! I prefer NICE people. an egomanic like mckay is not a nice person.

I like someone with a dry sense of humour sometimes or even a sarcastic sense of humour...Now these can be quite funny sometimes but i don't find whining incessantly funny at all!

Ltcolshepjumper

July 18th, 2008, 07:33 PM

All of them. Replace them with a new cast. See what happens.

Nothing against the current cast, just think it'll be an interesting and creative idea :P

That's not interesting or creative. that's lazy writing. That's what they did with Weir and Beckett. And look how that turned out. Instead of properly developing characters, you would rather them try to avoid the problem? That would be the worse decision made by tptb, and would without a doubt end the show. And think how long it would take to find suitable replacements. Stargate Atlantis is about the characters, not the city.

Arica15

July 19th, 2008, 12:25 AM

ITA, I have NEVER found whining to be entertaining! I prefer NICE people. an egomanic like mckay is not a nice person.

Nice...well nice would be nice;) but Keller isn't nice she's a nasty little wannabe bully (Zelenka) pretending to be the sweet little girl next door.

Pegasus_SGA

July 19th, 2008, 01:17 AM

Nice...well nice would be nice;) but Keller isn't nice she's a nasty little wannabe bully (Zelenka) pretending to be the sweet little girl next door.
A bully? Really, and pray tell, what bullying has she done? :lol: Because of that one throw away comment in 'Trio'? So really if that's the benchmark, then Weir's a bully, Shep's a bully, Ronon's a bully, Carson's a bully as is Sam and Keller, and Zelenka, he's always mouthing off about Rodney behind his back in Czech. ;)

JohnDuh

July 19th, 2008, 05:28 AM

That's not interesting or creative. that's lazy writing.

That'll fit right in then! *g*

StevenCaldwell

July 19th, 2008, 05:38 AM

Bring back ford and bring back beckett!!!!!

Linda06

July 19th, 2008, 05:48 AM

A bully? Really, and pray tell, what bullying has she done? :lol: Because of that one throw away comment in 'Trio'? So really if that's the benchmark, then Weir's a bully, Shep's a bully, Ronon's a bully, Carson's a bully as is Sam and Keller, and Zelenka, he's always mouthing off about Rodney behind his back in Czech. ;)

Well if that's the case Rodney must be the biggest bully of them all the way he talks to them and treats them!

Pegasus_SGA

July 19th, 2008, 05:55 AM

Well if that's the case Rodney must be the biggest bully of them all the way he talks to them and treats them!
:eek: I missed off Rodney, and he's worse than all of them put together!! Stupid Peggy! :lol:

*luffs Rodney and his bullying ways* :P

g.o.d

July 19th, 2008, 05:57 AM

I have to admit that Teyla's not so annoying in S5. But Keller, she should be flushed from the airlock

Linda06

July 19th, 2008, 05:59 AM

:eek: I missed off Rodney, and he's worse than all of them put together!! Stupid Peggy! :lol:

*luffs Rodney and his bullying ways* :P

tut tut....Bad Peg......Give yourself a slap on the head....And then maybe Sheo can kiss it all better ;)

I have to admit that Teyla's not so annoying in S5. But Keller, she should be flushed from the airlock

Really?? Um i never know when you're being serious :S ;)

g.o.d

July 19th, 2008, 06:01 AM

Really?? Um i never know when you're being serious :S ;)

weel, it's only the second episode, I'm sure she'll begin annoy me sooner or later:)

Linda06

July 19th, 2008, 06:07 AM

weel, it's only the second episode, I'm sure she'll begin annoy me sooner or later:)

Of that i have no doubt..There are some things that are certain in this life!

g.o.d

July 19th, 2008, 06:08 AM

Of that i have no doubt..There are some things that are certain in this life!

yeah...death, taxes and annoying Teyla

Earthgate Ricky

July 19th, 2008, 06:22 AM

Dr. Keller is really weakest to me as Dr. Carson Beckett is strong and hot Scot. I rather see Carson and Rodney into bromance.

Linda06

July 19th, 2008, 06:27 AM

yeah...death, taxes and annoying Teyla

Well death,taxes and you being annoyed by Teyla......She doesn't annoy me..I love Teyla ;)

stclare

July 19th, 2008, 06:34 AM

I think I may have changed my mind :confused:

after the seed - i kinda dont like Ronan (ducks fan girls) he just became blah while i was watching. weird maybe next week will sway me back :o

FallenAngelII

July 19th, 2008, 06:48 AM

Teyla's apparently going to be playing the role of a mother now... with the father still alive. Teyla's going to start getting more annoying pretty soon.

The writers can barely write lines for female characters. They're so out of touch with people who aren't Mary Sues every single female on the show is more like a male looking like female. So can you imagine the BS we're going to have to go through when they write lines for a mother?

Pegasus_SGA

July 19th, 2008, 06:52 AM

tut tut....Bad Peg......Give yourself a slap on the head....And then maybe Sheo can kiss it all better ;)

I know!! :eek: I disgust myself sometimes* ;)

I must pay penance. *Slaps self on back of the head and waits patiently* :P

Linda06

July 19th, 2008, 07:00 AM

I know!! :eek: I disgust myself sometimes* ;)

I must pay penance. *Slaps self on back of the head and waits patiently* :P

:rolleyes: He'll be there shortly....After cazz lets go of him ;)

JohnDuh

July 19th, 2008, 07:06 AM

And, in my mind, it doesn't really fit with what else we've been told about Keller. She's socially awkward, has always had trouble fitting in (per her remarks to Ronon), she's visibly awkward in her bedside manner and has a tendency to put her foot in her mouth, she often comes across as timid and unsure when talkiing with others (at least the command staff of Atlantis), yet she's somehow comfortable flirting with both Ronon and Rodney? It's a bit incongruous to me.

She hasn't flirted with either. But it may be incongruous it also happens in real life.

JohnDuh

July 19th, 2008, 07:07 AM

A minor note ... Keller asked McKay out for a drink in "Trio" because he supposedly lost a bet with her and she was collecting on the bet.:)

Hm, are you accusing her of being greedy now? ;)

Arica15

July 19th, 2008, 07:50 AM

Hm, are you accusing her of being greedy now? ;)

Wow - hadn't thought of it like that but now you mention it...........;)

hedwig

July 19th, 2008, 10:10 AM

Hm, are you accusing her of being greedy now? ;)

Hmmm ... wasn't thinking of it in that way, but it's an interesting thought.:)

tombombadil

July 19th, 2008, 10:13 AM

teyla's baby. i know it sounds cold, but think of how good the plot will become!

hedwig

July 19th, 2008, 10:29 AM

teyla's baby. i know it sounds cold, but think of how good the plot will become!

Yeah, it's cold and heartless, etc., ... but it's been done on other shows just to grab people's attention and raises the "sob" factor. :( So, it really wouldn't be a big stretch to do it on SGA, I suppose.

To clarify, I didn't mean YOU were cold and heartless ... just the idea ...:o

tombombadil

July 19th, 2008, 10:56 AM

To clarify, I didn't mean YOU were cold and heartless ... just the idea ...:o

well......:D

fumblesmcstupid

July 19th, 2008, 01:11 PM

too bad we couldn't choose which writers should go!!!

I am not a fan of Mollazzi at all!

i think the writers can ruin a show just by not knowing the characters that they write!
that makes me mad!

GateofDOOM

July 19th, 2008, 01:21 PM

I think I may have changed my mind :confused:

after the seed - i kinda dont like Ronan (ducks fan girls) he just became blah while i was watching. weird maybe next week will sway me back :o

Heh. I've never liked Ronon. Really.

How's that for an unpopular opinion? :P

Cory Holmes

July 19th, 2008, 02:01 PM

Heh. I've never liked Ronon. Really.

How's that for an unpopular opinion? :P

No, unpopular is when you declare your undying hatred of the Shep/Weir or Sam'n'Sir pairings. Trust me, I speak of experience :D

Rac80

July 19th, 2008, 02:03 PM

Heh. I've never liked Ronon. Really.

How's that for an unpopular opinion? :P

try this thread (http://forum.gateworld.net/showthread.php?t=54889) those of us heretics need to stick together! ;)

mrwhite2

July 19th, 2008, 04:23 PM

I don't mind Keller, but I can't stand Teyla. The only way I can explain what bugs me is how she talks like a police officer, kinda making every sentence as long as it can possibly be, if that makes sense.

GateofDOOM

July 19th, 2008, 05:07 PM

No, unpopular is when you declare your undying hatred of the Shep/Weir or Sam'n'Sir pairings. Trust me, I speak of experience :D

Heehee. I've had a few run-ins myself over Sam/Jack. I guess I'm just asking for it!!! :D

Erm...On Topic: DIE (insert character name here) DIE

Edit: Because apparently I like causing trouble...;)
Why isn't Carson on the list?

Actionhank

July 19th, 2008, 06:09 PM

Other.
Specifying... I don't like
- daughter of "the seer" (Please stop her from coming back.)
- Lucious (doesn't make me laugh at all)
- Katie Brown (just annoying)

I'd like to see
- FRAN (pretty sure they'll bring her back)
- actor of "the seer" (hmmm, he's dead ...Jim ^^)
- Hermiod (sadly, that's most unlikely - but whats the show without the grey little buggers :( )

BerrySciFi

July 19th, 2008, 07:23 PM

Keller. Each time she appears onscreen, I find myself wondering why she isn't at the local high school football field waving her pom poms and cheering on the home team. She's weak, she exudes no confidence or competence and I find her monotone delivery and expressionless face most annoying. Can you imagine going to a REAL doctor like her? I'd be worried about scalpels and such being left inside me while she was "playing around with my insides". Other than that, she's great!

Ellaneshka

July 19th, 2008, 07:45 PM

I really liked Jewel's performance in "This Mortal Coil" when RepliKeller was explaning her plan to RepliWeir, her timing and expression was amazing.

MrClark

July 19th, 2008, 09:30 PM

Keller is attracted to Rodney because she likely feels safe with him. She knows he is awkward with the opposite sex as she is. They are on a level playing field.

As to Beckett coming back. If I was the commander of Atlantis I would restrict him to the base. He is a liability in the field and a possible security problem in the base It depends on how far Micheal can control him from. Remember the treatment Keller came up with only duplicated the treatment Micheal was giving him. What ever he used to control Beckett is still in Beckett I see what Micheal was giving Becket as a failsafe. If Carson escaped he would be dead in a week If Carson comes back he can retain his position as CMO but he would only do research and give guidance to the medical staff as needed. Keller would be in charge of the day to day operation and be the designated doctor for offworld ops This way Carson can research a final cure for his issues, Keller would gain experience and build up self confidence so someday she can be a great CMO

Woolsey is making the right call on the recovered hybrids. It needs to be determined whether or not Cason's retrovirus also ended Micheal's hold on them when he is in proximity. You don't want a large number of people in Atlantis that he can gain control of. My first reaction to Woolsey right after Search and Rescue was where is the closest airlock But after Seeds if they can continue to grow Woolsey's character then I say keep him too