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GateWorld
April 22nd, 2008, 12:55 PM
<DIV ALIGN="center"><TABLE WIDTH="450" BORDER="0" CELLSPACING="0" CELLPADDING="7"><TR><TD><DIV ALIGN="left"><FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial, san-serif" SIZE="2" COLOR="#000000"><A HREF="http://www.scifistream.com/lost/s4/index.shtml"><!IMG SRC="http://www.scifistream.com/lost/graphics/414.jpg" WIDTH="160" HEIGHT="120" ALIGN="right" HSPACE="10" VSPACE="2" BORDER="0" STYLE="border: 1px black solid" ALT="Visit the Episode Guide"></A><FONT SIZE="1" COLOR="#888888">LOST SEASON FOUR</FONT>
<FONT SIZE="4"><A HREF="http://www.scifistream.com/lost/s4/index.shtml" STYLE="text-decoration: none">THERE'S NO PLACE LIKE HOME, PART 3</A></FONT>
<FONT SIZE="1">EPISODE NUMBER - 414</FONT>
<IMG SRC="/images/clear.gif" WIDTH="1" HEIGHT="10" ALT="">
The Oceanic Six make their way to the freighter, only to watch it explode -- forcing a new struggle for their survival. Ben undertakes extreme measures to follow Jacob's unorthodox instructions.

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Morbo
May 29th, 2008, 07:36 PM
epic.

i told you.

SierraGulf1
May 29th, 2008, 07:49 PM
Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. Epic indeed. Lost is a great show, but its finales tend to blow regular TV completely out of the water (no pun intended, given the happenings of this finale).

First of all, my favorite character on the show is Desmond, and I was worried multiple times he would bite the dust. Instead, he got reunited with Penny AND he got off the island, something I don't think anybody was expecting. I'm happy for him, but I hope he doesn't just fade out of existence. Given Ben's hellbent desire to kill Penny and his "abilities," there's still plenty of water to cover with him.

Sawyer's come a long way too. The way he sacrificed himself was awesome (even though we knew he'd live), and the scene between him and Juliet was well done as well. Pretty much all of the characters were in top form; Sun's reacting to Jin's death was gutwrenching. And there was even a bit of Walt, albeit it looks like someone's been hiding the fact his dad went kaboom. Extra time spent of Lapidus was good. Miles, Dan, and Charlotte faded into the backdrop, although that was some interesting stuff with Charlotte returning to the island. And poor Dan... did he move with the island? I hope so, or he's pretty screwed.

Michael and Jin's deaths... I knew one of them would go this week, Michael because it just seems right (suicide, retribution) and Jin because they seem to be focusing a bit too much on Sun's grief to have it so that Jin is back with the others on the island. Both deaths were at least relatively well executed; Michael's was particularly sad because of how he spent his last few months and the fact that Walt is miles away. What makes Jin's death really suck is that he could have escaped if given just a few more seconds. I'm just glad the others got away.

Ben and Locke was great, which leads to the final reveal. I know a lot of people guessed Locke back at the end of S3, but for it to be a reality now has huge ramifications and raises a whole mess of questions. I wonder if S5 will take place three years after S4. Will S5 chart what happened on the island during those three years? Oy, I don't know what to think, except that Lost is waaaaay back on its game after the early S3 issues and they're four for four with quality finales.

Celcool
May 30th, 2008, 02:00 AM
wow, my shipper heart got everything it wanted, the Skate spectacularly hyped kiss and the Des-Pen emotional reunion kissing. Thank you Damon and Carlton!

btw. Sawyer shirtless and in wet jeans? Yum!

jds1982
May 30th, 2008, 05:07 AM
Damn, I should have known it was Locke in the coffin, when they revealed it was Jeremy Bentham. Both John Locke and Jeremy Bentham were English philosophers, and as far as I know they are both the only full name usage of a philosopher. Interesting stuff about Jeremy Bentham (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeremy_Bentham). What caught my attention most was this passage
As a result of his correspondence with Mirabeau and other leaders of the French Revolution, he was declared an honorary citizen of France, but Bentham was an outspoken critic of the revolutionary discourse of natural rights, and of the violence which arose after the Jacobins took power (1792). What was the name of the island where the 6 were discovered, was it Mirabeau? I also think we may expect a violent next season. Also, hooray for time traveling bunnies!

Edit: Nope I was wrong about the islands name.

mizzoueng
May 30th, 2008, 08:36 AM
All in all a very well laid episode. After the 8 people in the copter hit the ocean, I thought this is where we saw the pilot and Desmond die, but they didn't.

I don't understand why they would say "8 survived the crash, but only 6 made it back", why even say that when the other 2 weren't passengers on the plane?

Now we know that the 2 people Sun blames Jins death on are her Father and Shep. And now she is working with Widmore, will she be next on Ben's "list"?

Lastly, we still don't know the fate of all the people that were on the boat, nearly all the survivors were on the boat when it blew, but we didn't see them in the water or on the deck when people were jumping, so is it possible that they got on a life raft and made it back to the island?

Oh, and Faraday, he was in a boat with A MOTOR, shouldn't he have caught up with the helicopter crash quickly? Otherwise I think he got caught with the island.

Jumper_One
May 30th, 2008, 09:01 AM
WOW!!! that was an amazing season finale! Ben kills Keamy and in doing so kills the people on the boat including Jin and Michael. I wasn't surprised since spoilers suggested that at least Jin would bite the dust. I guess TBTB just wanted to finish Michael's storyline. although, who knows, he might be back... anyway due to Sawyer's selfless act the guys on the chopper survive and get picked up by the Searcher (LOL funny name for a boat). Penny and Desmond are reunited, that was a nice surprise. it'll be interesting to see what those two are up to in s5. and what about Frank? will we see him again?

Ben really did it, he moved the island! wow. btw since there was a white flash, does this mean they also moved the island in the s2 finale? the Orchid seems to be a pretty cool station and will most definitely be important in the future. some more surprises: Locke becomes the leader of Ben's people, Claire sends Kate a message (or was she dreaming?), Sun and Widmore have common interests, Charlotte's actually returning to the island and of course the final scene: Jeremy Bentham aka John Locke is the guy in the coffin. the Oceanic 6 have to go back but they have to do it together. Ben has some ideas. oh boy this is gonna be interesting....

dosed150
May 30th, 2008, 09:08 AM
i wonder if jin will find out that widmore is also partly to blame for jins death, i knew that would be a heart rate monitor connected to a bomb the first time i saw it, if only because something similar happened in a star wars novel, i cant wait to see how everyone on the island is doing, they must think those 8 are all dead

Amalthea
May 30th, 2008, 10:46 AM
Whee! How awesome was that? Is it time for next season yet?

I was sure Desmond was a goner, but I was pleasantly surprised! That man has been through enough to deserve a happy ending. Poor guy didn't get a good night's sleep for years before our Losties showed up!

In any case, it seems Sun thinks Jin is still alive. Why else would she want to speak to Whitmore? I'm sure there's some reason I haven't thought of, tho. lol

I guess all the people on the rafts made it to the island or were close enough to get sucked in when it moved. If so, it's odd that it would take boat people and not chopper people. I would like to know more about that.

I am excited that it was Locke in the coffin. Why he left the island and how he really got dead are curious. And why Sayid wanted to hide people... oh the crazyness.

Is the actress who plays Claire preggies in real life? Her face looks different and given the shots they have had of her... I dunno, I could be wrong.

Anubis69
May 30th, 2008, 11:15 AM
I don't understand why they would say "8 survived the crash, but only 6 made it back", why even say that when the other 2 weren't passengers on the plane?
Always hide a bit of truth in a lie. Saying "8 of us survived the crash but only 6 made it back" is true... Just with certain details omitted.

Probably like everyone else I feared for Desmond (best fictional (and actual) Scot in the world!) and Frank but he came through ftw! And I really hope Dan is back next year, he's ace. Seeing as the boat wasn't spotted as the helicopter was going over, presumably and hopefully, he's with the island.

God that was good.

stargateanubis14
May 30th, 2008, 01:00 PM
Just an amazing episode... i re-watched it just to see if i missed any small hints... Just a few things i have in my mind...
We know Whitmore (however you spell it) is looking for those who came from the island, and Ben is looking for Whitmore... What will be stopping Ben from sacrificing the "oceanic 6" in order for him to get Whitmore?
Secondly, when Ben was about to move the island, he looked up and said something along the lines of "I hope your happy Jacob". I saw this in a few ways... 1) Ben and Jacob dont really like each other...maybe Jacob was someone from the island when Ben was first brought there (since we have seen dead people from the original "others" appear). Yet it is known to Ben that Jacob has a lot more power, and thus has to obey. Now that Ben has to leave, he is basically showing us that Jacob would be happy for Ben to be gone (and possibly take Whitmore's focus off the island to look for Ben, if he ever knows he got off) 2) Ben is hinting that Jacob is making mistakes, and that this "last resort" never would have had to come if Jacob had listened to some advice that Ben may have given previously (just guessing on this part).

As for Desmund, how is he going to stay hidden from Whitmore? He's WITH HIS DAUGHTER!... i think that will be an interesting topic to come...


Overall, i think season 5 is going to have to focus a LOT more on the real-world (non-island), because the most, if not all of the main characters are all off the island. This can open a whole new door of information, and drama (such as involvement of public, or Whitmore finding the island again...just too much to think about at once). Season 5 has many doors to open, and we know how much lost can open more doors than we even know about (think back to the first hatch we ever found...and all the assumptions we could make!) So much is still unknown about the island, what the smoke is, HOW THE HECK IT MOVES, what was the true purpose of darma, and was Whitmore against it all from the beginning, who Jacob is, how he knows so much? , and OH so much more...
Was the island at one time around the Bermuda triangle? lol... jk

I could ramble on about all the assumptions that can be made, and the new questions that could arise... but i think I've done my fair share for the day.

Morbo
May 30th, 2008, 02:15 PM
Guys, seriously, it's WIDMORE. I mean, we've seen it on countless things on the show from crashed balloons to pregnancy tests...not to mention his name being on screen more than once.





btw since there was a white flash, does this mean they also moved the island in the s2 finale? t

no. the purple sky in Season 2 was the electromagnetic discharge from the island.

Dev Corvin
May 30th, 2008, 02:26 PM
Disclaimer: Personally, I can't stand Lost. I feel like the "writers" are basically just making it up as they go along and letting other people fill in the blanks, and the entire thing is just a big game by the networks and the producers to see how long they can string the public along without REALLY telling them anything.

With that said and out of the way, here are my theories.

---------------------------------------------------------------------

So the episodes which HAVE provided tiny snippets of information seem to be building towards one thing, something I've had a hunch about since I first saw the statue in the water.

The "island" on Lost is/was the location of Atlantis.

I've recently been doing research on Atlantis (the REAL Atlantis, not the Stargate variety :p) for an archaeological paper I plan on publishing, so I'll be drawing on some of that research in this post.

The first clue, as I said, was the appearance of the statue. As many of you will most likely know, Plato's original account of Atlantis stated that it was "beyond the pillars of hercules". In mythology, statements often have multiple meanings designed to confuse; the theory being that those "worthy" would see past the obvious to the hidden meaning.

In this case, however, the reverse may apply; while the Pillars of Hercules are a geographical feature located at the mouth of the Strait of Gibraltar, they may also refer to the more literal "pillars of hecules" - ie, the legs of a statue of the legendary figure. If the entrance to city of Atlantis was, in fact, flanked by the legs of a giant statue (in much the same way that the entrance to Rhodes was flanked by the Colussus), it would certainly explain Plato's description, while providing a heavy misdirection so common in similar accounts.

Further evidence to support the Atlantis connection comes in the form of the ruins, the mention of a "temple" (possibly native architecture?), and most importantly, the events of the season finalé. Specifically, the room containing the multi-spoked wheel, with the (probably unnoticed by most) pictographs/writing on the pillar which held the gas lantern. This is clearly an example of native architecture rather than a construction by the DHARMA Initiative, and lends more credibility to the concept of the island being the location of a lost civilization.

The "disappearance" of the island as well, after it is moved, fits with Plato's account ("and the island of Atlantis in like manner was swallowed up by the sea and vanished;"), after allowing for the tendency of historians to exaggerate.

This also provides two interesting possible explainations for the existance of an advanced civilization existing at least 10,000 years before the emergence of civilization in Europe.

Firstly, that the emergence of homo sapiens sapiens as the dominent species in Europe was preceded by a separate offshoot of homo erectus which evolved on the island. This would account for the four-toed nature of the statue, and assuming they evolved at a similar or increased rate as homo sapiens (due to the climate on the island), would also account for their ability to develop greater forms of technology than we have so far been able to, possibly due to a lack of conflict in their society (which we know now is caused by genetic predisposition) leading to greater co-operation and therefore a faster development of civilization.

Or secondly, that the inhabitants of the island are actually from the "future", from a time when the human race has evolved to the point where a fifth toe is unnecessary (many geneticists have theorized that modern conveniences regarding travel are leading to certain traits which previously aided mobility being eliminated from our DNA). We know now that the island has a somwhat "flaky" connection to the 4th dimension, possibly only connected via a very small three-dimensional tunnel to the rest of the world, hence why objects crossing the boundary at other locations experience severe time dialation (apparently directly proportional to their mass and possibly distance from the tunnel). It stands to reason, then, that the original inhabitants of that island may in fact come from ANY time period, and in fact shifted the island back in time to the ancient world for reasons unknown, possibly to escape war or for archaeological purposes, etc etc.

The last justification for this theory is the name of the show; it is the "Lost City of Atlantis", after all.

marty2006
May 30th, 2008, 02:58 PM
Disclaimer: Personally, I can't stand Lost. I feel like the "writers" are basically just making it up as they go along and letting other people fill in the blanks, and the entire thing is just a big game by the networks and the producers to see how long they can string the public along without REALLY telling them anything.

With that said and out of the way, here are my theories.

---------------------------------------------------------------------

So the episodes which HAVE provided tiny snippets of information seem to be building towards one thing, something I've had a hunch about since I first saw the statue in the water.

The "island" on Lost is/was the location of Atlantis.

I've recently been doing research on Atlantis (the REAL Atlantis, not the Stargate variety :p) for an archaeological paper I plan on publishing, so I'll be drawing on some of that research in this post.

The first clue, as I said, was the appearance of the statue. As many of you will most likely know, Plato's original account of Atlantis stated that it was "beyond the pillars of hercules". In mythology, statements often have multiple meanings designed to confuse; the theory being that those "worthy" would see past the obvious to the hidden meaning.

In this case, however, the reverse may apply; while the Pillars of Hercules are a geographical feature located at the mouth of the Strait of Gibraltar, they may also refer to the more literal "pillars of hecules" - ie, the legs of a statue of the legendary figure. If the entrance to city of Atlantis was, in fact, flanked by the legs of a giant statue (in much the same way that the entrance to Rhodes was flanked by the Colussus), it would certainly explain Plato's description, while providing a heavy misdirection so common in similar accounts.

Further evidence to support the Atlantis connection comes in the form of the ruins, the mention of a "temple" (possibly native architecture?), and most importantly, the events of the season finalé. Specifically, the room containing the multi-spoked wheel, with the (probably unnoticed by most) pictographs/writing on the pillar which held the gas lantern. This is clearly an example of native architecture rather than a construction by the DHARMA Initiative, and lends more credibility to the concept of the island being the location of a lost civilization.

The "disappearance" of the island as well, after it is moved, fits with Plato's account ("and the island of Atlantis in like manner was swallowed up by the sea and vanished;"), after allowing for the tendency of historians to exaggerate.

This also provides two interesting possible explainations for the existance of an advanced civilization existing at least 10,000 years before the emergence of civilization in Europe.

Firstly, that the emergence of homo sapiens sapiens as the dominent species in Europe was preceded by a separate offshoot of homo erectus which evolved on the island. This would account for the four-toed nature of the statue, and assuming they evolved at a similar or increased rate as homo sapiens (due to the climate on the island), would also account for their ability to develop greater forms of technology than we have so far been able to, possibly due to a lack of conflict in their society (which we know now is caused by genetic predisposition) leading to greater co-operation and therefore a faster development of civilization.

Or secondly, that the inhabitants of the island are actually from the "future", from a time when the human race has evolved to the point where a fifth toe is unnecessary (many geneticists have theorized that modern conveniences regarding travel are leading to certain traits which previously aided mobility being eliminated from our DNA). We know now that the island has a somwhat "flaky" connection to the 4th dimension, possibly only connected via a very small three-dimensional tunnel to the rest of the world, hence why objects crossing the boundary at other locations experience severe time dialation (apparently directly proportional to their mass and possibly distance from the tunnel). It stands to reason, then, that the original inhabitants of that island may in fact come from ANY time period, and in fact shifted the island back in time to the ancient world for reasons unknown, possibly to escape war or for archaeological purposes, etc etc.

The last justification for this theory is the name of the show; it is the "Lost City of Atlantis", after all.

Man you must have alot of time on your hands if you can write all this about somthing you cant stand.

marty2006
May 30th, 2008, 03:00 PM
First of all, my favorite character on the show is Desmond, and I was worried multiple times he would bite the dust.

I love Desmond aswel not only is he a great character he is also Scottish and also supports the same football team as me :D.

Jumper_One
May 30th, 2008, 03:29 PM
no. the purple sky in Season 2 was the electromagnetic discharge from the island.

ah yes of course! thanks :) guess I should rewatch the s2 finale...

Dev Corvin
May 30th, 2008, 04:27 PM
Man you must have alot of time on your hands if you can write all this about somthing you cant stand.

Just because I have to watch it doesn't mean I have to enjoy it :P

entil2001
May 30th, 2008, 05:40 PM
As always, "Lost" is the very last major finale of May sweeps, bringing the season to a rousing close. I've never been disappointed with a "Lost" finale, and that trend certainly continues this time around. The more I think about it, the more I like it. It's going to be a very long wait for the fifth season, but at this point, I have absolutely no doubt that it will be worth it.

Lost 4.13/4.14: There's No Place Like Home: Part II (http://entil2001.com/series/lost/season4/lost4-13.html)

Overall, this episode was a satisfying season finale, completing the season arc while sowing the seeds for the next chapter. While some immediate questions were answered, most of the larger mysteries remain, leaving plenty of room to maneuver in the final two seasons. Even so, this was the final piece in an important bridge towards resolution.

Amalthea
May 30th, 2008, 07:29 PM
Overall, i think season 5 is going to have to focus a LOT more on the real-world (non-island), because the most, if not all of the main characters are all off the island. This can open a whole new door of information, and drama (such as involvement of public, or Whitmore finding the island again...just too much to think about at once). Season 5 has many doors to open, and we know how much lost can open more doors than we even know about (think back to the first hatch we ever found...and all the assumptions we could make!) So much is still unknown about the island, what the smoke is, HOW THE HECK IT MOVES, what was the true purpose of darma, and was Whitmore against it all from the beginning, who Jacob is, how he knows so much? , and OH so much more...



I agree with the focus on the real world. I suspect that the main action will take place post-Oceanic 6 living their rather screwed up lives and they will flashback to the disaster that Locke claims happened on the Island. My money is Sawyer did something dumb. LOL

Dusk
May 31st, 2008, 03:58 AM
:ronananime25:

I'm just so glad the finale was a two-hour and not a one-hour show. Can you imagine what would have been missed if all that was condensed for a single episode?

Next season will rock, and there will be some interesting developments to be sure. My thinking is that Sawyer and Juliet will become joint leaders of the beach crew. Is Micheal really dead? If 'Island Christian Sheppard' can steal Claire away, could he have not done the same to Michael. And as for Jin, well even if he had gotten off the freighter, he couldn't have survived long after that without the Island to go back to.

One of my major predictions for the future may be a bit of a spoiler, but as yet it is only speculation...

Those who have died on the Island aren't truly dead and/or have the ability to be restored to life. The way they are playing the dead characters who appear as ghosts in some episodes seems to suggest that they are more than just Island manifestations.

But another prediction, which I feel is more solid...

Locke isn't completely dead... Jeremy Bentham was a doppelganger, a duplicate, created by using the Orchid station. If Locke had set the shift to a negative setting, then he would effectively transport himself back, say, a few seconds, and there would be two of them. Evidence? Unedited Orchid Orientation Film (http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/Orchid_Orientation_film)

Bwahaha! I love it! And then of course there are further implications if we combine the two theories above!

Time travel back to retrieve dead people using the Orchid!

This show just got creepier!

ComicCon in July will have a LOST panel, let's hope they spill a few secrets about next season, specifically casting.

Aerilon
May 31st, 2008, 04:21 AM
Oh My God!!!

What an awesome season final. Have just finished watching it, and I think it ties up a lot of loose ends fairly nicely. I would think, that now they're off the island (both in the future tense, and present) that next season will be on-off the island, alternating between those who are off, and those who are still there.

I am still not convinced that Micheal and Jin are actually dead either.Yes, I know the boat blew up, but Micheal was talking to Christian just before (Christian may have saved him) and Jin could have jumped into the water or something... Maybe Christian saved him too? I don't know. But I wouldn't rule out the possability of them to be still aliveIn regards to SaywerI wouldn't mind knowing what he said to Kate. Obviously we'll find this out at some point, but still, would be nice to know now. And in regard to Desmond:I am glad that he and Penny eventually found each other again. That was a nice ending to the season to see them two back together, just one must ask now, if we will see them again in the seasons to come, and what is likely to go down in regard to Ben looking to kill Penny. I hope he ultimatly doesn't. Generally, Ben is a selfish guy, who obviously doesn't careabout who he kills, or who gets killed because of himAnd the Coffin:It was John all along... How he got there I will not know (nobody will as of yet), but I doubt we'll see the last of him either.

Dusk
May 31st, 2008, 05:42 AM
I wouldn't mind knowing what he said to Kate. Obviously we'll find this out at some point, but still, would be nice to know now.

I believe it was: "I have a daughter in Albuquerque, you need to find her. Tell her I'm sorry."

The question is, why did he feel the need to tell this to Kate, when as far as he knew, they were all getting rescued?

SoulReaver
May 31st, 2008, 06:57 AM
Just because I have to watch it doesn't mean I have to enjoy it :Phave to watch it ? you have to watch something you don't like ??

is this some morbid fascination with the series ?
or some other obscure explanation ?
or perhaps it's part of your job ? ^_^

SoulReaver
May 31st, 2008, 07:00 AM
**** it, those *******s really did kill Jin :tealcanime51:
and Locke :tealcanime51:





btw. last thing I expected was a teleportation-style displacement of the island lol

Vala_mal_Doran
May 31st, 2008, 09:07 AM
I can't believe they killed Jin. I don't remember which episode it was, but the one with the forward flash when Sun was having her baby, it also showed Jin buying a panda for another couple who were also having a baby. If that was a flashback, that could explain it, but the way it was done, I thought they were both forward flashes. Any ideas?

Skydiver
May 31st, 2008, 10:26 AM
also, can't we just combine the threads for part 2 and 3 seeing as how it aired as 1 whole episode and also it seems silly to try to place conversation regarding the entire episodes into the specific threads...

that's because, for hte rest of the world, they won't get a 2 hour finale, they'll get all 3 eps one per week.

right now youguys are doing the sensible thing and keeping the convo to part 3, which works for me :)

as to moving the island...i wonder...does it really move through space or time?

think about it. Even a few hundred years ago, our world map was a bit different. the tectonic plates move and shift. What if, in moving the island through time, it moved in physicality because it goes back in time when it was located at a different longitude and latitude?

Even 10 - 20 miles would seem to be a massive move, but, in the grand scheme of things, not all that far on a global scale

KatG
May 31st, 2008, 11:46 AM
I believe it was: "I have a daughter in Albuquerque, you need to find her. Tell her I'm sorry."

The question is, why did he feel the need to tell this to Kate, when as far as he knew, they were all getting rescued?

Because when he jumped out of the helicopter, into the middle of the ocean, he didn't know if he would make it back to the island or not. He could have drowned.

SoulReaver
May 31st, 2008, 12:17 PM
as to moving the island...i wonder...does it really move through space or time?

think about it. Even a few hundred years ago, our world map was a bit different. the tectonic plates move and shift. What if, in moving the island through time, it moved in physicality because it goes back in time when it was located at a different longitude and latitude?that is possible and would better explain the presence of a single wheel for moving the island (clockwise/counterclockwise depending on whether u want to travel in the future or the past)
whereas space travel would logically require 2 wheels (for the x & y coordinates) depending on destination longitude & latitude


thing is, would time travel cause the water to move & ripple where the island previously was ? :tealcanime49:

marty2006
May 31st, 2008, 01:36 PM
that's because, for hte rest of the world, they won't get a 2 hour finale, they'll get all 3 eps one per week.

right now youguys are doing the sensible thing and keeping the convo to part 3, which works for me :)

as to moving the island...i wonder...does it really move through space or time?

think about it. Even a few hundred years ago, our world map was a bit different. the tectonic plates move and shift. What if, in moving the island through time, it moved in physicality because it goes back in time when it was located at a different longitude and latitude?

Even 10 - 20 miles would seem to be a massive move, but, in the grand scheme of things, not all that far on a global scale

I understand the reasoning and there are more than two countries watching but we are getting a 2 hour finale over here in the UK tomorrow.

Amalthea
May 31st, 2008, 09:12 PM
I can't believe they killed Jin. I don't remember which episode it was, but the one with the forward flash when Sun was having her baby, it also showed Jin buying a panda for another couple who were also having a baby. If that was a flashback, that could explain it, but the way it was done, I thought they were both forward flashes. Any ideas?

I think the popular consensus was that the Panda was a flashback designed to throw us off. This is the problem, I think, when people get too much information from sources that are not the actual show- they start to expect things based on what the producers say and then have issues when other things come to fruition. This has happened in other shows that will not be mentioned but are relevant to this forum...

marty2006
June 1st, 2008, 03:41 AM
Personally im not so sure jins dead, michael on the other hand is very much so, as hes been trying to commit suicide for a long time now an the island wouldnt let him and when christian sheppard appeared in the freighter he said you can go now or something very close to that implying he can die now.

Morbo
June 1st, 2008, 05:56 AM
I can't believe they killed Jin. I don't remember which episode it was, but the one with the forward flash when Sun was having her baby, it also showed Jin buying a panda for another couple who were also having a baby. If that was a flashback, that could explain it, but the way it was done, I thought they were both forward flashes. Any ideas?

they split it that episode on purpose. Jin's was a flashback, Sun's was a flash forward.
That's why Jin had an older cell, and there was no mention at all about what baby he was getting the panda for.

I'd wager good money on Jin really being dead. Hurley was on the chopper when the boat exploded, and he came to see Sun and went with her to his grave too. No, it's not proof, but I think it's a pretty sound theory/conclusion.

but yeah, michael is gone.
If my other forums weren't down right now, I'd post an article about an interview with Harold Perrineau and how he was upset about the fate of his character after coming back.

xXValaXx
June 1st, 2008, 06:42 AM
Oh cant wait to see the finale tomorrow :D:D:D

Darren
June 1st, 2008, 12:09 PM
I think the theory that Jeremy Bentham is an Orchid-made duplicate of Locke is entirely plausible. (Watch the Orchid video with the twinned #15 bunny.) I think that when the Six get back to the island, they are going to be shocked to find Locke there alive and well.

Does this mean there might be two Bens running around, as well? He wasn't exactly time-space shifted by the Vault, but he was apparently time (3 years, ahead to 2007) and space shifted by what he did in the hidden room behind it.

I suspect that Jin is really and truly dead, as is Michael. Christian didn't magically whisk Claire away -- he appeared to her in the jungle and got her to follow him. An island apparition does not have the power of teleporting others, so far as we know.

What is Sun doing with Widmore? If she thinks they have common interests, I suspect it's the joy of hating Benjamin Linus. If she too was visited by Jeremy Bentham / Locke, she could have found out that Ben indirectly (and without any regret) caused Jin's death by killing Keamy. She may want revenge on Ben (and, perhaps, Widmore too for that matter) -- and will be in for a surprise when she finds Ben teamed up with Sayid, Jack, and Hurley next season.

How did Widmore find out about what happened on the island and the circumstances surrounding Alex's death ("The Shape of Things To Come")? When he spoke to Ben about who was to blame for her death, it implied that some of the strike team actually made it back to him.

Ben said he can never return to the island, but clearly he has "a few ideas" about how he and the Oceanic Six (and Locke) might make it back. I suspect he is using them to get back to the island ... after he takes care of a little personal business with Penelope.

Skydiver
June 1st, 2008, 12:50 PM
I think the popular consensus was that the Panda was a flashback designed to throw us off. This is the problem, I think, when people get too much information from sources that are not the actual show- they start to expect things based on what the producers say and then have issues when other things come to fruition. This has happened in other shows that will not be mentioned but are relevant to this forum...
jin was a flashback. I remember him giving hte panda as a gift to one of sun's father's compatriots, at the behest of sun's father.

in other words, it took place when he was sun's father's patsy, not in the future with sun having her child.

Skydiver
June 1st, 2008, 12:52 PM
that is possible and would better explain the presence of a single wheel for moving the island (clockwise/counterclockwise depending on whether u want to travel in the future or the past)
whereas space travel would logically require 2 wheels (for the x & y coordinates) depending on destination longitude & latitude


thing is, would time travel cause the water to move & ripple where the island previously was ? :tealcanime49:
yeah. because let's say in 2007 it exists at 20 degrees north latitude (i'm just pulling numbers out of my head here), but ben jumps it back to 1807, and it's at 18 degrees north latitude, it no longer exists at 20 degrees, thus the water rushes in to fill the emptiness, while at 18 degrees, the water is pushed away

In the middle of an empty ocean, no one would notice and it's possible that anything picked up by the seismometers is just written off as a minor earth quake

Dave C
June 1st, 2008, 01:58 PM
Jin isn't dead because they need a hook to get sun back to the island

marty2006
June 1st, 2008, 02:10 PM
Jin isn't dead because they need a hook to get sun back to the island

She cant be sure hes dead at all neither can we thats the hook. Regardless of wether he actually is or not. Personally i think he could still be alive because if he managed to get off the freighter in time dan was in the dingy with some of the other losties, michael on the otherhand is a goner, the island let him go.

stewsith
June 2nd, 2008, 04:59 AM
Best, Finale, Ever!

For once there is no indication of what is going to happen next which is brilliant because it makes me want to watch it even more! If only Stargate Atlantis took a cue from Lost in how to do an ending because the last finale of Atlantis made me angry.

(Also my first post in several months after being away at university! yey!:))

stewsith
June 2nd, 2008, 05:10 AM
Oh My God!!!

I am still not convinced that Micheal and Jin are actually dead either. Yes, I know the boat blew up, but Micheal was talking to Christian just before (Christian may have saved him) and Jin could have jumped into the water or something... Maybe Christian saved him too? I don't know. But I wouldn't rule out the possability of them to be still alive

In regards to SaywerI wouldn't mind knowing what he said to Kate. Obviously we'll find this out at some point, but still, would be nice to know now.

I think Michael is dead because if you remember that the island wouln't let him die until he fulfilled his role (he even put a gun to his head and nothing happened). When the bomb was about to blow up Christian told him "you can go now", which means that his job is done and he can finally die.

Also in regards to what sawyer said there is a video here which makes sense of it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R5W2-dvSzKk&feature=related

Dusk
June 2nd, 2008, 05:27 AM
Ben has a few ideas? I have one: Ben and Jack kidnap Aaron, Ji-Yeon, and Penny, take them to the Island with Locke. Kate, Sun, and Desmond will plead with Sayid to help them, the Island will send Libby to beckon Hurley, and there you have it - Return to the Planet of the Apes... er... yeah, anyway...

Isn't it amazing that the producers have twice now spent a few million on shifting filming to London in order to have the actor who plays Widmore? He must consider himself very special.

xXValaXx
June 3rd, 2008, 07:35 AM
woah what a finale :eek::eek: alot of my questions were most certainly answered....about time too :P:P

Im still puzzled on one thing tho...im guessing when we saw Sun in hospital giving birth....i guess that was a flashback? it has to be if Jin is dead...or is he?...well the boat blew up so he has to be dead lol..but im confused because in that same flashback/forward he was going to the hospital with a huge panda then it shows Sun and Hurley visiting his grave....so im a little confused on that one....

jds1982
June 3rd, 2008, 08:24 AM
woah what a finale :eek::eek: alot of my questions were most certainly answered....about time too :P:P

Im still puzzled on one thing tho...im guessing when we saw Sun in hospital giving birth....i guess that was a flashback? it has to be if Jin is dead...or is he?...well the boat blew up so he has to be dead lol..but im confused because in that same flashback/forward he was going to the hospital with a huge panda then it shows Sun and Hurley visiting his grave....so im a little confused on that one....

Jin's story was a flashback, Sun's story was a flash forward. They were two separate events.

xXValaXx
June 3rd, 2008, 11:30 AM
Yeh i was thinking that :P Thanks :)

YodaMate
June 3rd, 2008, 06:41 PM
Awesome finale, as expected. Ever since the Ben-centric episode this season, i've been calling him a teleporter and it feels nice to be vindicated (since my mates thought i was nuts).

Since Ben was moved to Tunisia in 2005 (and he correctly judged that 'October' would be in 2005), i suspect the island has also moved through time and space. This may have implications for the very ageless Richard, then again it may not. Either way, i don't believe that 3 years of island action have passed for the Losties left behind (which always seemed like a lot, given the whole series has taken place on-island over a couple of months)

As for Ben himself, his explanation for his lethal actions seemed a little too quick. Did he really coldly reflect on his life choices in those few seconds after fanatically killing Keamy ? It's also suspicious that Keamy was alive at all and Ben seemed to expect that the person coming down the elevator would be him. Keamy was down when Ben was freed, why didn't he make sure Keamy was dead after Richard shot him ? His daughter's killer was at Ben's feet, on an island with remarkable healing properties, and he didn't even look at the body ?

Come to think of it, the urgency on the island should by rights have been over when Richard shot Keamy. Ben told Jack to get on that boat within the hour but he moved the island in an awful hurry. He didn't even stop to let Locke finish watching the video. Couldn't Ben have waited an hour or two to let Jack and co. off the island, as he promised he would let them do ? Particularly since he knew a rescue effort was going on down at the beach to ferry Losties off the island, if he knew that much then he probably knew that it was going to take some time.

I keep thinking of the scene where Ben asks what the 'arrangement' was between Richard and Sayid/Kate. He accepts Richard's deal to let them off the island by saying "fair enough". Kate, disbelieving, asks him if "that's it", to which Ben replies "that's it".

I think Kate was on to something to here. I think Ben was in a hurry to move the island precisely because he didn't intend to let them leave. The freighter had moved inside the island's time radius to within sight of the island. If Ben had moved the island before the freighter could leave the radius, it's possible that the freighter (with all the people Ben has technically let 'leave' the island) would move with it. If the safe bearing passage out of the radius changes when the island moves, Ben would've succeeded in trapping the Losties whilst technically allowing them to leave the island itself.

Or an even more sinister theory ; Ben may checked out Keamy, discovered he was alive and seen the heart-rate monitor, then deliberately waited for Keamy to come after him, giving the Losties time to get on the boat, before killing Keamy and destroying the freighter. Also, what would have happened if Keamy was still alive and Ben moved the island ? That too could have caused the freighter to explode.

In any event, Ben would no longer be there to answer the charge that he broke his word.

Even if you take his word at face value, Ben still cares nothing for the lives of innocent people, despite his claims to the contrary. It seems even his enemies believed Ben was a good man, since Keamy went to the trouble of rigging the freighter, thinking that Ben wouldn't kill a bunch of innocents. His enemies thought wrong ; the man who helped massacre the DHARMA Initiative has not changed at all in 12 years.

Dusk
June 4th, 2008, 04:25 AM
...so im a little confused on that one....

Hehehe, so many people are still in a spazz about that episode aren't they. I got it straight away, but there are so many out there who are still all wtf about it. jds1982 is correct.

xXValaXx
June 4th, 2008, 05:01 AM
Oh my colleagues are all wtf about Lost altogether....i cnt talk about it to them cos they give up on watching it :lol:

Dusk
June 4th, 2008, 07:36 PM
I'm glad I stuck around, it is a sweet payoff for those with patience and foresight. And now that publicity of the show's success is spreading rapidly, all the deserters are crawling back or crawling away to hide. Many have said they love the show, but can't stand the serialized format that play as like chapters from a thriller novel. Instead, they are opting to wait for the series to end, and then have one big DVD marathon.

Boo Boo
June 5th, 2008, 07:10 AM
I'm glad I stuck around, it is a sweet payoff for those with patience and foresight. And now that publicity of the show's success is spreading rapidly, all the deserters are crawling back or crawling away to hide.


There are a lot of people like that. The show did bog down for awhile. But sticking around has definitely paid off. LOST is back to it's first season greatness.

YodaMate
June 6th, 2008, 05:11 AM
I'm kind of torn. Whilst i would miss endlessly dissecting each episode as it comes along and with my insatiable desire to learn what happens next means i could never stay away, i do envy those who have fallen off the bandwagon because they will get the opportunity to marathon all 6 seasons fresh and back-to-back.

A friend of mine got into Lost during Season 4, he watched the first three seasons in a couple of weeks, got caught up and then found watching week-by-week to be intolerable. He's managed to wait for the last couple to accumulate and have a 4-hour viewing session.

Speaking of crazy attention to detail, an interesting update on the survivors : between the minor characters, novels, once-off mentions, mob-isodes, etc, there are only 5 out of the original 48 survivors who haven't been named yet, that number drops to 3 if you include the characters from the new video game.

The writers are going to have to start taking care, cause they've had one unknown woman die this season, along with two more women and a man on the freighter with Jin. Either the video game characters don't count, or pre-existing characters are getting killed off without been properly referenced ! :eek:

Morbo
June 15th, 2008, 05:46 PM
wait, people think Michael is alive still?

come ON.

Jumper_One
June 15th, 2008, 05:53 PM
wait, people think Michael is alive still?

come ON.

huh? HP confirmed the character's death

Morbo
June 16th, 2008, 05:08 AM
i know he's dead. but i was just reading back in this thread because i haven't read it in a few weeks, and people were saying they thought he was still alive.

Jumper_One
June 16th, 2008, 04:59 PM
i know he's dead. but i was just reading back in this thread because i haven't read it in a few weeks, and people were saying they thought he was still alive.

oh ok, yeah he's definitely dead

delsin2
July 17th, 2008, 08:56 AM
:ronananime25:

I'm just so glad the finale was a two-hour and not a one-hour show. Can you imagine what would have been missed if all that was condensed for a single episode?



ComicCon in July will have a LOST panel, let's hope they spill a few secrets about next season, specifically casting.

hmmmmm,I also think so.