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nova
April 13th, 2008, 09:23 AM
do you think she is gonna end up with 1 of them?

i know in the last s4 ep she was wiv rodney and all that, but im sure i read a s5 ep where keller, ronan and mckay r stranded together

do u think then, being stuck wiv them 2, she will make a choice?

jenks
April 13th, 2008, 09:24 AM
I refuse to answer a question that looks like it's been typed on a phone.

nova
April 13th, 2008, 09:27 AM
well im sorry for typing quick, it's just second nature;

do you think keller will end up with one of them?

i know in the last season 4 episode, she was with rodney, and all that, but im sure i read in a season 5 episode, where keller, ronan and mckay are stranded together.

do you think, being stuck with those 2, will force her to make a choice?

**retyped**

The Suicidal Goldfish
April 13th, 2008, 09:34 AM
There's no charge for using proper English, you young whippersnapper :D

I'm young too and, while I can understand using sms-speak in text messages, I cannot understand peoples' compulsion to use them in messageboard typing.

Anyway, in answer to your second post, I'm abivalent.

nova
April 13th, 2008, 09:38 AM
its just easier and quicker for me to as you say sms-text

Reiko
April 13th, 2008, 10:00 AM
.: Neither.

.: She needs to learn to stand on her own as a character and not just be propped up with a man IMHO.

.: If she doesn't, she should be sent to Todd. Or Lucius.

Jeffala
April 13th, 2008, 10:06 AM
.: She needs to learn to stand on her own as a character and not just be propped up with a man IMHO.

I agree. But I also think that she should bed them both and on a regular basis. ;)

Reiko
April 13th, 2008, 10:20 AM
I agree. But I also think that she should bed them both and on a regular basis. ;)

.: :eek:

.: That would do nothing for her but reinforce her position as the city harlot.

jelgate
April 13th, 2008, 10:27 AM
.: :eek:

.: That would do nothing for her but reinforce her position as the city harlot.

How do you reinforce a position that does not exist

Reiko
April 13th, 2008, 10:29 AM
How do you reinforce a position that does not exist

.: It's an unofficial position.

jelgate
April 13th, 2008, 10:32 AM
.: It's an unofficial position.

I just don't see anyone on Atlantis being considered a harlot.

Reiko
April 13th, 2008, 11:10 AM
I just don't see anyone on Atlantis being considered a harlot.

.: Well I do, and that's my opinion, dear ;)

FoolishPleasure
April 13th, 2008, 11:15 AM
do you think she is gonna end up with 1 of them?

I'd like to see her as Wraith bait, and then gone. . . . for good. It would put an end to the idiotic soap arc.

Jeffala
April 13th, 2008, 11:24 AM
.: It's an unofficial position.

Does she get an extra patch on her jacket, like Hester Prynne got the A to wear in The Scarlett Letter?

andrewTellis
April 13th, 2008, 12:10 PM
Does she get an extra patch on her jacket, like Hester Prynne got the A to wear in The Scarlett Letter?
No, she has to get pregnant first.

Jeffala
April 13th, 2008, 12:27 PM
No, she has to get pregnant first.

I bet she's already on birth control.

andrewTellis
April 13th, 2008, 12:36 PM
I bet she's already on birth control.

No, she really wants that patch.

GoSpikey
April 13th, 2008, 12:59 PM
I bet she's already on birth control.

Wait, wasn't she too much near her own birth still, for that? :mckay:

Falcon Horus
April 13th, 2008, 01:12 PM
At the rate she's going we'll have a red light district on Atlantis in no time... :p

Anyway, the answer is neither... If Keller can't be a character in her own right and has to be shipped with a guy to exist, then don't use her at all and have her disappear.

Jeffala
April 13th, 2008, 01:26 PM
No, she really wants that patch.

You can never have too many pieces of flair.

Pic
April 13th, 2008, 01:28 PM
Maybe she'll get stuck on some planet with both of them and come to her senses, deciding that it really needs to be about her career right now.
.....ok, I did say "maybe".....

She probably uses it as an opportunity to inform them that she's dating Zelenka.
Wait, no, Chuck. She's dating Chuck.



Seriously, I'm only kidding folks. I frankly don't care what they have planned on this front, she's not a character that bugs me as much as she seems to bug a lot of folks around here. And, call me crazy, but couple minutes of silly soap-plot doesn't bother me either.

Oh, and kudos for this:

You can never have too many pieces of flair.

ROFL!!!

Rac80
April 13th, 2008, 01:38 PM
Oh can you feel the hate!?!?! Must be a snippet of jealousy reigning amongst you. http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/angry037.gif (http://www.freesmileys.org)
As for me... i want her to get Ronon http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb194/rac80/smilies/rononkeller_couple.gif (Rodney whines too much and needs a tough gal to offset that!)

Also, a little romance doesn't make it a soap and a little flirting doesn't make a gal a harlot! http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb194/rac80/smilies/samrodneyship-t-t.gif

thanx to suz for the smilies

KindlyKeller
April 13th, 2008, 01:55 PM
I refuse to answer a question that looks like it's been typed on a phone.

Lol!!!

Landers
April 13th, 2008, 02:38 PM
do you think she is gonna end up with 1 of them?

Good lord, NO. Toss her out the airlock!

KindlyKeller
April 13th, 2008, 03:47 PM
Good lord, NO. Toss her out the airlock!

His question was "what do you think WILL happen," not: "what is your semi-creepy fantasy about the matter?" :mckayanime01:

Reiko
April 13th, 2008, 04:17 PM
At the rate she's going we'll have a red light district on Atlantis in no time... :p

Anyway, the answer is neither... If Keller can't be a character in her own right and has to be shipped with a guy to exist, then don't use her at all and have her disappear.

.: We already have a red light district as "Keller's infirmary". ;)

.: But I agree - neither. It would only hurt her character more. If she can't stand on her own, show her the way to the airlock.

.: (Does anyone have an airlock smilie of someone getting sucked into space? Somebody should make one :P )

Falcon Horus
April 13th, 2008, 04:19 PM
.: (Does anyone have an airlock smilie of someone getting sucked into space? Somebody should make one :P )

My lemming self uses the doors of the airlock as surfboards... and as such I can offer only a warning-plate... But my lemming self does not wish to share her airlocks.

andrewTellis
April 13th, 2008, 04:24 PM
I don't care who ends up with who, but most likely Keller and mckay will be together, that's the whole reason it was foreshadowed in TLM.

Falcon Horus
April 13th, 2008, 04:34 PM
I don't care who ends up with who, but most likely Keller and mckay will be together, that's the whole reason it was foreshadowed in TLM.

In that case, Keller will die.

Lenas
April 14th, 2008, 03:10 AM
NEITHER! To give her some sort of credibility, to make us believe she could actually be CMO, they need to let her stop this darn flirting! She is there to do a job and if she founds love, fine, but we really don´t need to see it, or know of it!:eek:

Just let it go because I really want to be able to let go of the barf-bucket I needed watching Trio and Q.

ToasterOnFire
April 14th, 2008, 05:19 AM
Neither. For the most part, TPTB can't write canon ship worth crap. I don't even want to see a hint of a competition between McKay and Ronon for Keller, much less seeing one of the two become canon.

TPTB need to develop Keller instead of turning her into some prize to be won. As it stands, it makes me think that they dumped Carson and brought her on to allow for more potential romantic entanglements. Blech.

Cam_Mitchell
April 14th, 2008, 05:27 AM
I agree. But I also think that she should bed them both and on a regular basis. ;)

Not McKay just me and ronon.... ;)

elliecat
April 14th, 2008, 11:15 AM
I think everyone's pretty much said what I think already but I need to put in my two cents worth i'm afraid!

I really love SGA (series 1-3) and have watched all episodes even the ones I was not so keen on but season 4 was bad and changed my opinion of the show as a whole because of one reason - Keller.

I personally do not want Ronon and Rodney fighting over her like she is the best thing ever and the only woman in the whole of two galaxies. I just find the whole thing boring and unbelievable im afraid, don't wanna see it.

This is just my opinion but I would shove her out the airlock aswell!

Briangate78
April 14th, 2008, 11:25 AM
Keller will become like Starbuck from BSG, and Mckay will turn into a Gaius Baltar and he will sleep with every woman on base. ;)

Stargate Atlantica! :p

Arica12
April 14th, 2008, 11:28 AM
Can I vote for the airlock too?

And nah to the starbuck analogy, she'd need to develop a personality first....

Briangate78
April 14th, 2008, 11:30 AM
Neither. For the most part, TPTB can't write canon ship worth crap. I don't even want to see a hint of a competition between McKay and Ronon for Keller, much less seeing one of the two become canon.

TPTB need to develop Keller instead of turning her into some prize to be won. As it stands, it makes me think that they dumped Carson and brought her on to allow for more potential romantic entanglements. Blech.

That is likely one of the main reasons why I love the Stargate Franchise more than say BSG. I never liked the idea of people actually shipping and having sex on a SCI FI drama show all the time. I got a nice selection of porn for that. Yes, even ones with alien themes. ;) I like the drama of the strong friendship bond, and how the characters really care for eachother, and the male and female companions, get to that point of just about to ship but don't. To me that makes it more dramatic than if they actually do it. Don't get me wrong, once and awhile can be ok, just not every single episode. lol.

As per Carson and the whole Keller thing. I prefer Carson over Keller, and I really do like Keller. Carson is returning, and it's not just a guest spot here and there, they are literally writing him back into the show. TPTB cannot just say ok Carson is back full-time! It would not work. If there is a Season 6, I'll betcha Carson's episode order is at least doubled.

jelgate
April 14th, 2008, 11:38 AM
That is likely one of the main reasons why I love the Stargate Franchise more than say BSG. I never liked the idea of people actually shipping and having sex on a SCI FI drama show all the time. I got a nice selection of porn for that. Yes, even ones with alien themes. ;) I like the drama of the strong friendship bond, and how the characters really care for eachother, and the male and female companions, get to that point of just about to ship but don't. To me that makes it more dramatic than if they actually do it. Don't get me wrong, once and awhile can be ok, just not every single episode. lol.

As per Carson and the whole Keller thing. I prefer Carson over Keller, and I really do like Keller. Carson is returning, and it's not just a guest spot here and there, they are literally writing him back into the show. TPTB cannot just say ok Carson is back full-time! It would not work. If there is a Season 6, I'll betcha Carson's episode order is at least doubled.

I'll take that bet. Its unlikely he will get that many episodes without being named a regular.

Briangate78
April 14th, 2008, 11:43 AM
I'll take that bet. Its unlikely he will get that many episodes without being named a regular.

He'll likely never be in the main credits again. But to the people who like Carson that should be fine. He is not needed to be in every single episode. Same goes for Keller. She'll likely be in like 12 to 14 eps next season. Heck, Woolsey is only casted for 14 eps.

Falcon Horus
April 14th, 2008, 11:44 AM
I'll take that bet. Its unlikely he will get that many episodes without being named a regular.

And I bet you we won't see Carson again after his 5th episode... :p

Briangate78
April 14th, 2008, 11:45 AM
And I bet you we won't see Carson again after his 5th episode... :p

I highly doubt that. Not after how everything went down.

jelgate
April 14th, 2008, 11:49 AM
He'll likely never be in the main credits again. But to the people who like Carson that should be fine. He is not needed to be in every single episode. Same goes for Keller. She'll likely be in like 12 to 14 eps next season. Heck, Woolsey is only casted for 14 eps.

You said double of his S5 appearence if a S6 happens. I just don't see him showing up for that many episodes as a recurring actor. With the CMO already having a limitied appearence, it is unlikely that Beckett will have that amount of episodes. Especially when you consider how the CMO has been used in the past.

FoolishPleasure
April 14th, 2008, 11:50 AM
I highly doubt that. Not after how everything went down.

There is no reason for this show to have two doctors. One needs to go and it probably won't be Mary Sue, unfortunately. Boobies and blonde hair are better than interesting characters any day in the Stargate universe. ;)

Briangate78
April 14th, 2008, 11:53 AM
You said double of his S5 appearence if a S6 happens. I just don't see him showing up for that many episodes as a recurring actor. With the CMO already having a limitied appearence, it is unlikely that Beckett will have that amount of episodes. Especially when you consider how the CMO has been used in the past.

Yeah 8 or 10 tops, no more than that.


There is no reason for this show to have two doctors. One needs to go and it probably won't be Mary Sue, unfortunately. Boobies and blonde hair are better than interesting characters any day in the Stargate universe. ;)

They want to keep that balance going. Depends how Carson's eps are received in Season 5. Keller is not going to be in every single episode. If you think about it Carson will be like a Zelenka and Lorne. Except Carson is going to be more focused when he does appear in an episode since he was a former lead.

Arica12
April 14th, 2008, 11:55 AM
I would say we've gone off topic but frankly this discussion is a lot more interesting than the previous one.....

Briangate78
April 14th, 2008, 11:58 AM
I would say we've gone off topic but frankly this discussion is a lot more interesting than the previous one.....

Actually it is, technically it is still on topic since this is the Season 5 sub-forum. :p

elliecat
April 14th, 2008, 12:01 PM
Is there anyone out there that wants her to get with either? We need a poll!

Ronon - 0
Rodney - 0
Neither/Don't care - 1

jelgate
April 14th, 2008, 12:05 PM
Yeah 8 or 10 tops, no more than that.



They want to keep that balance going. Depends how Carson's eps are received in Season 5. Keller is not going to be in every single episode. If you think about it Carson will be like a Zelenka and Lorne. Except Carson is going to be more focused when he does appear in an episode since he was a former lead.

If their is a S6, I don't see any more than 6 episodes for Beckett unless he replaces Keller.

g.o.d
April 14th, 2008, 12:13 PM
do you think she is gonna end up with 1 of them?

i know in the last s4 ep she was wiv rodney and all that, but im sure i read a s5 ep where keller, ronan and mckay r stranded together

do u think then, being stuck wiv them 2, she will make a choice?


who cares?

Falcon Horus
April 14th, 2008, 01:00 PM
Is there anyone out there that wants her to get with either? We need a poll!

Ronon - 0
Rodney - 0
Neither/Don't care - 1

You should split the last up... Cause I'd say neither and I do care...sorta...

Constanza
April 14th, 2008, 01:38 PM
Is there anyone out there that wants her to get with either? We need a poll!

Mmmmmm, I'll have to go with: neither

Personally... I don't like Keller that much; so I just don't see any of those guys getting serious about a relationship with her.

Reiko
April 14th, 2008, 02:14 PM
Neither. For the most part, TPTB can't write canon ship worth crap. I don't even want to see a hint of a competition between McKay and Ronon for Keller, much less seeing one of the two become canon.

.: Agreed - in another futile attempt to woo the fans towards Keller, PTB will only succeed in making both Keller, Ronon, and Rodney look stupid. (Not to mention themselves)


never liked the idea of people actually shipping and having sex on a SCI FI drama show all the time. <snippy> I like the drama of the strong friendship bond, and how the characters really care for eachother, and the male and female companions, get to that point of just about to ship but don't..

.: I agree with you. I 'ship' characters on SGA but in no way would I want it to become canon! That's what fanfiction is for. Things should be left up to the viewer, if everyone is going around dating and knocking boots it gets tiring quickly. And the 'deep friendship' shared amounst the characters is much more meaningful than a hookup, IMHO. :)

.: Well, it was. Since two family members got the axe :rolleyes: :(

http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff239/Reiko_Afterglow/team2_FAM2.gif

Briangate78
April 14th, 2008, 02:18 PM
.: Agreed - in another futile attempt to woo the fans towards Keller, PTB will only succeed in making both Keller, Ronon, and Rodney look stupid. (Not to mention themselves)



.: I agree with you. I 'ship' characters on SGA but in no way would I want it to become canon! That's what fanfiction is for. Things should be left up to the viewer, if everyone is going around dating and knocking boots it gets tiring quickly. And the 'deep friendship' shared amounst the characters is much more meaningful than a hookup, IMHO. :)

.: Well, it was. Since two family members got the axe :rolleyes: :(

http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff239/Reiko_Afterglow/team2_FAM2.gif

That is what BSG is for. :p

Well we got 5 out of 6 of the original cast coming back. To me that is a win.

The TARDIS
April 14th, 2008, 02:41 PM
I say Zelenka :P

I just find it amusing the idea of Zelenka fumbling every time Keller gets close, and every time he tries to say something nice to her, ends up blurting out "your hair smells nice!"... followed immediately by a grimace, and Czech swearing. And Keller being really confused the entire time. :P.

What? I couldn't have been the only one who got that impression from that comment in Trio!

Besides it's the only real option... as it's McKay/Carter, Ronon/Teyla, and Shep/Nancy. (Prepares for the storm of reds :D)

SpelCzech
April 14th, 2008, 02:50 PM
I say Zelenka :P

Keller, stay away from Radek! :mad:

OTOH, if she develops a massive crush on him and he would rather spend time with his pigeons, that I'd like to see.

Landers
April 14th, 2008, 03:41 PM
Its Keller/Woolsey. The ultimate useless couple.

Briangate78
April 14th, 2008, 03:43 PM
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b253/marcm1978/Funny%20pics/ththa70c54f8.gif

The TARDIS
April 14th, 2008, 03:44 PM
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b253/marcm1978/Funny%20pics/ththa70c54f8.gif

http://www.badongo.com/t/640/3369153

Reiko
April 14th, 2008, 07:30 PM
Well we got 5 out of 6 of the original cast coming back. To me that is a win.

.: Well, it's a battle won but the war's not done yet. ;) Even though I don't particulary like the way the show is going, I'm still fighting it out til the end ;)


Keller, stay away from Radek! :mad:

.: Keller should stay away from Radek and ALL the men. And women. I can't see how she could ever get Radek. He is too good for her.


Its Keller/Woolsey. The ultimate useless couple.

.: Keller/Woolsey ship FTW!!!

KindlyKeller
April 14th, 2008, 08:38 PM
There is no reason for this show to have two doctors. One needs to go and it probably won't be Mary Sue, unfortunately. Boobies and blonde hair are better than interesting characters any day in the Stargate universe. ;)

Those aren't mutually exclusive things. :mckayanime22:

PG15
April 14th, 2008, 09:46 PM
Of course it is! Either you're ugly as sin and interesting, or you're supreme hotness and you're boring. It's black and white, obviously. No shades of grey here. It makes it so much easier to understand and mock.

Oh, and it only applies to females, evidently.

Lenas
April 14th, 2008, 10:55 PM
Its Keller/Woolsey. The ultimate useless couple.

I´m not a shipper, BUT this is a ship I would second!
And let Keller give him a "physical" very near the airlock......

farcue
April 15th, 2008, 12:50 AM
well, im pretty opinionated here. Which is unusual for me ;)

Keller/Mckay would be great. I really thought it worked in last man. Even though it was essentially pulled outta the writers arse with no backstory to explain it i thougth it really worked. Keller has that outta place geeky thing going as does mckay.

Personally i think the scene in the ep where the city goes on lockdown (i forget the name) and keller and ronan are trapped it was a bit wierd. Would you REALLY wanna get with somone whos like your dead wife? Would you really wanna be with somone cos you remind them of your dead wife?

Lenas
April 15th, 2008, 05:57 AM
well, im pretty opinionated here. Which is unusual for me ;)

Keller/Mckay would be great. I really thought it worked in last man. Even though it was essentially pulled outta the writers arse with no backstory to explain it i thougth it really worked. Keller has that outta place geeky thing going as does mckay.

Personally i think the scene in the ep where the city goes on lockdown (i forget the name) and keller and ronan are trapped it was a bit wierd. Would you REALLY wanna get with somone whos like your dead wife? Would you really wanna be with somone cos you remind them of your dead wife?

No woman in her right mind no.
As for Keller being a doctor - well, she should have offered him help and support to get over his loss and traumatic background, not whine about not being invited to parties and turn it into a flirty moment?? Very unprofessinonal. And they want us to believe she could actually be the CMO??

Constanza
April 15th, 2008, 07:43 AM
I say Zelenka :P

I like the idea!
Radek gets the girl; and Rodney… a stroke because of the envy! :mckay:

Reiko
April 15th, 2008, 11:11 AM
Of course it is! Either you're ugly as sin and interesting, or you're supreme hotness and you're boring. It's black and white, obviously. No shades of grey here. It makes it so much easier to understand and mock.

Oh, and it only applies to females, evidently.

.: It's actually quite true. When industry evaluates a male actor, they judge characterization, charisma, stage presense, and most of all talent. With females, most are looking at boobs, butts, legs, and everything imbetween. Talent helps, but's not a requirement.

.: As it has been mentioned before, film and television is a great example of sexism as it is one of the only industries in which you can dump someone because they're not 'hot' or 'sexy' enough.

.: I thought they did a fine job casting the ladies in the first three seasons of SGA. But now? ... :S

KindlyKeller
April 15th, 2008, 12:05 PM
So, you're saying that Jewel is a bad actress and the only reason she's on this show is because she's pretty and has a pleasing body? :mckay:

Falcon Horus
April 15th, 2008, 12:09 PM
So, you're saying that Jewel is a bad actress and the only reason she's on this show is because she's pretty and has a pleasing body? :mckay:

I don't think that's what Reiko means... but so what if she does?

Jewel is too young to fill the role of Keller. If this character had been more mature then she might have been more believable as Chief of Medicine.

From what we now see, all they wanted her for was to have her flirt with Ronon and Rodney ... and it pretty much equals she was always meant to be eye-candy for the boys. Too bad for Jewel, cause she's one awesome lady.

Jumper_One
April 15th, 2008, 12:15 PM
I don't think that's what Reiko means... but so what if she does?

Jewel is too young to fill the role of Keller. If this character had been more mature then she might have been more believable as Chief of Medicine.

that's your opinion. I'm not disagreeing with you but TBTB have explained why Keller became CMO


From what we now see, all they wanted her for was to have her flirt with Ronon and Rodney ...

how so? I remember the scene in Quarantine, then the end of Trio and of course the AT in TLM. this is like 5% (I'm just guessing ;)) of her appearances (11 eps)


and it pretty much equals she was always meant to be eye-candy for the boys.

that's pure speculation


Too bad for Jewel, cause she's one awesome lady.

:indeed:

Pic
April 15th, 2008, 12:25 PM
Wow... so a "s5 of keller/ronan or keller/mckay" thread completely turns into a keller-hate thread...
Yikes...

I'm taking the topic to mean which relationship would you like to see pursued (if either) in season 5 and not as a chance to beat on Keller and remind everyone how glorious Carson was/is.

So, Carson aside, since he's not the topic, I just don't think Keller and Ronan make a very good match. I have no opinion about Keller and McKay, but I could see a realistic friendship there (friendship, I said, not 'ship'ship). Here's a thought - maybe it would even help her character if Carson's friend can lower himself to speak to the apparently-evil-Keller, then other people will just lay off a bit and give her a chance...

ok, go ahead and throw the flames at me now -
I never thought much of Keller one way or the other, but I love to root for an underdog... ;)

Falcon Horus
April 15th, 2008, 12:25 PM
that's your opinion. I'm not disagreeing with you but TBTB have explained why Keller became CMO

Of course, it's my opinion... Who else do you think uses Falcon Horus as their username? :p

TPTB tried to explain it...but excuse me for not buying a single word of it. I happen to have a doctor in the family and when he was going on 30 he was still not finished studying and the dude's too smart for his own good. They can explain it all they like, realistically Keller would never have gotten the position she's in. But this is scifi...anything is possible... Keller is definitely proof of that.


how so? I remember the scene in Quarantine, then the end of Trio and of course the AT in TLM. this is like 5% (I'm just guessing ;)) of her appearances (11 eps)

You can call it whatever you like... It's not normal to have her flirt with two guys in as many episodes and one episode where she is full out shipped with one of those guys. It sends out a pretty strong message...one that I don't like to see in the future.

Also this damsel in distress routine... flush it!

KindlyKeller
April 15th, 2008, 12:28 PM
I don't think that's what Reiko means... but so what if she does?

Jewel is too young to fill the role of Keller. If this character had been more mature then she might have been more believable as Chief of Medicine.

From what we now see, all they wanted her for was to have her flirt with Ronon and Rodney ... and it pretty much equals she was always meant to be eye-candy for the boys. Too bad for Jewel, cause she's one awesome lady.

"So what?" I disagree, that's what. She's allowed to have her opinion and I'm allowed to have mine.

"Too young." An opinion. One I don't agree with.

"From what we see now..." Don't use the word 'we,' because that implies that I agree with you, or that it's indisputable fact, which is certainly is not.

KindlyKeller
April 15th, 2008, 12:31 PM
Wow... so a "s5 of keller/ronan or keller/mckay" thread completely turns into a keller-hate thread...
Yikes...

A thread about Jack's hair color in 1999 would turn into a Keller hate thread these days, so it isn't too surprising, sadly.

elliecat
April 15th, 2008, 12:31 PM
I agree Falcon flush it!

The whole Ronon/Rodney thing? I just don't buy it, Ronon has no chemistry with her neither does Rodney and both 'shippy' scenes with these two and Keller just came outta the blue, there was no ust that I could see in previous episodes it just was there bam! I was like wtf?

Just my opinion but I really don't like it! :p

maxbo
April 15th, 2008, 12:33 PM
As for Keller being a doctor - well, she should have offered him help and support to get over his loss and traumatic background, not whine about not being invited to parties and turn it into a flirty moment?? Very unprofessinonal. And they want us to believe she could actually be the CMO??

Those scenes between Ronon and Keller could have been so much better and could have pleased shippers and non-shippers alike if TPTB had written them as two mature people trying to get through a crisis instead of writing them as two awkwardly flirty high-schoolers.


Jewel is too young to fill the role of Keller. If this character had been more mature then she might have been more believable as Chief of Medicine.

Yes, she is too young for this role, which is why TPTB should have developed a more age appropriate character for her instead of trying to shoehorn her into a role that doesn't fit.


From what we now see, all they wanted her for was to have her flirt with Ronon and Rodney ... and it pretty much equals she was always meant to be eye-candy for the boys. Too bad for Jewel, cause she's one awesome lady.

I feel bad for Jewel too because in addition to being too young for this role, the writing for her character made a bad situation worse by making her seem even younger.

Jumper_One
April 15th, 2008, 12:35 PM
Of course, it's my opinion... Who else do you think uses Falcon Horus as their username? :p

IDK :P sorry it just sounded as if you were posting a fact


TPTB tried to explain it...but excuse me for not buying a single word of it. I happen to have a doctor in the family and when he was going on 30 he was still not finished studying and the dude's too smart for his own good. They can explain it all they like, realistically Keller would never have gotten the position she's in. But this is scifi...anything is possible... Keller is definitely proof of that.

yes it's sci fi but apparently a lot of fans did buy it


You can call it whatever you like... It's not normal to have her flirt with two guys in as many episodes and one episode where she is full out shipped with one of those guys. It sends out a pretty strong message...one that I don't like to see in the future.

Also this damsel in distress routine... flush it!

I'm sure Sam and Vala have done the same. the AT doesn't really count because it wasn't real. remember all the AT SG-1 eps ;)

Briangate78
April 15th, 2008, 12:37 PM
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b253/marcm1978/Kittens.jpg

FoolishPleasure
April 15th, 2008, 12:39 PM
Wow... so a "s5 of keller/ronan or keller/mckay" thread completely turns into a keller-hate thread...
Yikes...

It isn't so much hate, as frustration. Frustration at losing a sweet character for a crybaby one. Frustration at having a new character flirt with other regs, putting them in soapy situations instead of adventurous ones. Frustration at having a new character shoved in our faces week after week, when established characters like Teyla still don't have half the development they need.

My biggest frustration is seeing Jewel, who I loved in "Firefly", used so poorly here. She doesn't even come across as a real doctor! Heck, what young, doctor is gonna be out of breath and complain about having to walk? (Trio) Or what character would truly scream bloody murder when being sought by cannibals? WTH? I'd hide and keep my mouth SHUT! That's just stupidity.

This whole "Ronon or Rodney" fiasco is the worst thing ever to come out of this studio in 10+ years. EVER!

Falcon Horus
April 15th, 2008, 12:39 PM
yes it's sci fi but apparently a lot of fans did buy it

Good for them.


I'm sure Sam and Vala have done the same.

It's a hobby with Vala... Carter, on the other hand, her flirts always ended up dead. And I can assure you it was annoying... not the dying, the flirting. The worst being the whole Sam/Jack thing...


...the AT doesn't really count because it wasn't real.

It was... it just will now turn out differently, at least I hope.


...remember all the AT SG-1 eps ;)

No, I don't actually... Sorry.

PG15
April 15th, 2008, 12:47 PM
You can call it whatever you like... It's not normal to have her flirt with two guys in as many episodes and one episode where she is full out shipped with one of those guys. It sends out a pretty strong message...one that I don't like to see in the future.


That women have sex drives? That some may even...LIKE males? Holy crap!

This is not specifically directed at you, FH; it's something I've been annoyed at for a while now. Keller's a "harlot" now, just because she showed signs of liking the opposite sex? What kind of crap is that? Are those of you who are complaining about this so sheltered that you don't realize that women may in fact like to hang out with men sometimes? I doubt that, so what is it?

Perhaps it's the fact that Stargate has been SO unrealistic regarding sexualization in the past. Any little bit of it seems to freak people out nowadays. I'm fully willing to admit that I'm TERRIBLE with the ladies (like, you have noooo idea), and still I get invited out to parties and drinks sometimes just to talk and stuff, by girls who are my friends, which is exactly what happened to Rodney and Keller at the end of Trio. THAT's flirting? My god people, get out more, make more real life friends who are of the opposite sex. Heck, if that's flirting, then I'd have...5 girlfriends now (instead of 0)? Apparently, the friendly talks we've had were all signs that they wanted to do me. Darn.



Also this damsel in distress routine... flush it!

You mean that damsel that shot a man?

Jumper_One
April 15th, 2008, 12:47 PM
It isn't so much hate, as frustration. Frustration at losing a sweet character for a crybaby one.

who? remember it wasn't M&M's decision to kill off Carson and it's because of them that he's back ;)


Good for them.

yup


It's a hobby with Vala...

true


Carter, on the other hand, her flirts always ended up dead.

so? we're talking about flirting, not dying


And I can assure you it was annoying... not the dying, the flirting. The worst being the whole Sam/Jack thing...

S/J is different and I wouldn't compare it with Keller/Ronon or Keller/Rodney (or Ronon/Keller/Rodney :S)


It was...

yes it was real but that timeline will cease to exist


it just will now turn out differently, at least I hope.

I'm sure it will


No, I don't actually... Sorry.

right sorry I forgot you didn't watch SG-1 :o

Pic
April 15th, 2008, 12:50 PM
A thread about Jack's hair color in 1999 would turn into a Keller hate thread these days, so it isn't too surprising, sadly.

Let's start one and find out.
:jack_new_anime06:

ToasterOnFire
April 15th, 2008, 12:57 PM
he whole Ronon/Rodney thing? I just don't buy it, Ronon has no chemistry with her neither does Rodney and both 'shippy' scenes with these two and Keller just came outta the blue, there was no ust that I could see in previous episodes it just was there bam! I was like wtf?
Yep. I didn't see anything lasting with Ronon/Keller because I don't see what they have in common (outside of her looking like his ex-wife, yikes). I didn't see the chemistry between Rodney and Keller either, because it was smashed in during Last Man and had no time to develop. It felt more like TPTB wanted to include some ship, any ship, in that ep and the bottle they spun pointed toward Rodney/Keller. Yeah, that's a promising start. :S


I feel bad for Jewel too because in addition to being too young for this role, the writing for her character made a bad situation worse by making her seem even younger.
"Who would you rather", yeesh. :S

Falcon Horus
April 15th, 2008, 01:07 PM
That women have sex drives?

Man, you don't want to know what my mind made of that sentence... very dirty thoughts crossed the neural pathways, it ain't even funny. :S


Keller's a "harlot" now, just because she showed signs of liking the opposite sex?

But why put so much weight in it? Why do TPTB want this NOW... as in why now? Why Keller? Is Keller the only woman on Atlantis who has the ability of making friends/flirting with the opposite sex? [/size](not gonna start on the whole issue of why only straight and not gay, but I have issues with that in the same way ... almost anyway)[/size] Why is she different from any of the other ladies, whom TPTB never had them even come close to the way they have Keller act.


I'm fully willing to admit that I'm TERRIBLE with the ladies (like, you have noooo idea)...

I think I have a smidgen... I swear, I'm supposed to know what women are like being one myself but goddess are ladies strange creatures.


...and still I get invited out to parties and drinks sometimes just to talk and stuff, by girls who are my friends, which is exactly what happened to Rodney and Keller at the end of Trio. THAT's flirting?

The end of Trio... She's stuck in that hole for 40 minutes. It's not just the end. In the end there was no time for friendly talking since she was trying to pry the other damsel in distress from the rope.


Apparently, the friendly talks we've had were all signs that they wanted to do me. Darn.

Yes Rodney... :p


You mean that damsel that shot a man?

Yes, that one... The one who is about to go get kidnapped again. It's not so much the actual damsel in distress, it's the part where she's shuffled into being the damsel in distress while they have obviously shown she can be a damsel with balls.


who? remember it wasn't M&M's decision to kill off Carson and it's because of them that he's back ;)

As a clone... :S


so? we're talking about flirting, not dying

Had to read that a few times... but yes, flirting... although when did Carter do the actual flirting.

I'm no expert but I believe this is Carter, we're talking about... I always thought she was a little dense in those areas. And, come to think of it, she could have easily outkirked John like how the alien men always seem to fall for her. :p


yes it was real but that timeline will cease to exist

It doesn't... it exists in a different universe. It's all about the science, which I don't even try to understand, unless I want to have a headache.


right sorry I forgot you didn't watch SG-1 :o

No, I did watch SG1... I just can't remember 3/4th of it, which means I should rewatch it some day. All ten seasons are sitting on my shelf, except season 8 is currently on loan with my cousin.

Jumper_One
April 15th, 2008, 01:21 PM
As a clone... :S

better than no Carson imo


Had to read that a few times... but yes, flirting... although when did Carter do the actual flirting.

I'm not sure. however my point was it depends on the characters and fans. you think she's flirting with the guys, others disagree


I'm no expert but I believe this is Carter, we're talking about... I always thought she was a little dense in those areas. And, come to think of it, she could have easily outkirked John like how the alien men always seem to fall for her. :p

there weren't that many though so I'm not sure about this


It doesn't... it exists in a different universe. It's all about the science, which I don't even try to understand, unless I want to have a headache.

AFAIK there's a difference between an AT (AR) and an AU. the events of TLM took place in an AT which will cease to exist, much like
the AT in Continuum
maybe I'm wrong :o


No, I did watch SG1... I just can't remember 3/4th of it, which means I should rewatch it some day. All ten seasons are sitting on my shelf, except season 8 is currently on loan with my cousin.

SG-1's an awesome show, it sure doesn't hurt to rewatch it :) s8 was very cool imo :D

PG15
April 15th, 2008, 01:24 PM
Man, you don't want to know what my mind made of that sentence... very dirty thoughts crossed the neural pathways, it ain't even funny. :S

Yikes. :p


But why put so much weight in it? Why do TPTB want this NOW... as in why now? Why Keller? Is Keller the only woman on Atlantis who has the ability of making friends/flirting with the opposite sex? [/size](not gonna start on the whole issue of why only straight and not gay, but I have issues with that in the same way ... almost anyway)[/size] Why is she different from any of the other ladies, whom TPTB never had them even come close to the way they have Keller act.

No idea. If I were to guess, I'd think TPTB just wanted to write a different kind of character for once (which is good). And there's Vala, who is waaaay more extreme than Keller, so it's nothing new.


The end of Trio... She's stuck in that hole for 40 minutes. It's not just the end. In the end there was no time for friendly talking since she was trying to pry the other damsel in distress from the rope.

I mean the very end.



Yes, that one... The one who is about to go get kidnapped again. It's not so much the actual damsel in distress, it's the part where she's shuffled into being the damsel in distress while they have obviously shown she can be a damsel with balls.

All we know is that she's getting kidnapped. What she does while being kidnapped = no clue about.

If you're putting the label of "damsel" on Keller just because she got kidnapped (which is basically another word for "captured"), then apparently everyone is a damsel in some form or another (The whole team in The Lost Boys; Shep in Common Ground; Teyla in Vengeance, Kindred; Ronon in Sateda; McKay in Miller's Crossing; Beckett in Misbegotten...I can go on).

Falcon Horus
April 15th, 2008, 01:31 PM
AFAIK there's a difference between an AT (AR) and an AU. the events of TLM took place in an AT which will cease to exist, much like
the AT in Continuum
maybe I'm wrong :o

In my kinda science... it's the simplistic kind, it's a fork in the road thing. But I'm not going to break my head over it.

Repli!kat
April 15th, 2008, 01:33 PM
Well, here's my take on the Keller situation.
First, she was "shoehorned" in at a time when many people's favorite characters were being killed off, seemingly with no real reason.

She took a position she was obviously (to me) not qualified for. There was no reason she needed to come in as CMO, it seems a slap in the face to the Carson fans. Many other roles would have been suitable, why a direct replacement of Beckett?

The PTB's gushing over how awesome it is working with the actress makes it seem like favoritism that she so quickly took on such a big role in the show.

She takes away time from our remaining favorite characters like Teyla and Ronon that could have used to develop them further. Other favorite characters, like Lorne and Zelenka, who have been patiently on the backburner for years could have benefited from the time they have spent with her. And this season, with what seems to be less Sheppard presence, every time I hear she has a part in an ep I think that it could have been given to him, after all he is the leading character. So there is an immediate "jealous" response in behalf of all the other characters when I hear she is there.

She is just so perfectly bland and cutesy, no real edge or bite to her character. Shipping her with anyone just reeks of what I see to be the writer's desire to create the "perfect" woman; cute and vulnerable, needing to be protected. But they give her just enuf "competent doctor" and "shoot the bad guy" scenes so they can justify in their minds that they know what a real competent mature woman is. They could have brought her in as a scairdy cat newbie doc or a frightened young scientist, her reactions would then make sense, but to try to pass her off as a mature physician ready for a relationship with the likes of Ronon or Rodney is ridiculous, IMHO only. :S

Jumper_One
April 15th, 2008, 01:39 PM
In my kinda science... it's the simplistic kind, it's a fork in the road thing. But I'm not going to break my head over it.

yeah I know what you mean :P

Jeffala
April 15th, 2008, 02:04 PM
She took a position she was obviously (to me) not qualified for. There was no reason she needed to come in as CMO, it seems a slap in the face to the Carson fans. Many other roles would have been suitable, why a direct replacement of Beckett?

Are you arguing that they never should have brought in a new CMO or that it just shouldn't have been her?

Would you have approved of another choice for CMO or just hated that character, too, since it wasn't Carson and the new character was replacing him?

Reiko
April 15th, 2008, 02:16 PM
So, you're saying that Jewel is a bad actress and the only reason she's on this show is because she's pretty and has a pleasing body? :mckay:

.: :eek: Oh, no, that's definately not what I mean! I love Jewel and her other roles but I despise the Keller character. Most of this is attributed to really bad writing. All of it is attributed to TPTB. I was simply stating what I said previously to reflect on what other PG15 had written (sarcasm or not) and how sad and true it is. Jewel being more older, or casting another older actress, not to mention the writers actually writing this character with some maturity would have helped her case.

.: She's just about as much as a victim of bad writing as I have, and I truly feel sorry for her as this is not a character that does justice for her.


who? remember it wasn't M&M's decision to kill off Carson and it's because of them that he's back ;)
:

.: Oh, I know. But I also think that Carson would be brought back anyway if they weren't showrunners.

.: Whether or not that last statement would hold true, M&M did some other questionable things. I'm willing to let that Carson was a clone slip, but in terms of TPTB I still feel cheated. They also could have brought him back full-time, which most people wanted. But they didn't. They offed Elizabeth. Also had a chance to bring her back full time, mind you - and the chance not to off her at all.

Jumper_One
April 15th, 2008, 03:12 PM
.: Oh, I know. But I also think that Carson would be brought back anyway if they weren't showrunners.

maybe, maybe not ;)


.: Whether or not that last statement would hold true, M&M did some other questionable things.

I wasn't happy with all their decisions but overall I really enjoyed s4


I'm willing to let that Carson was a clone slip, but in terms of TPTB I still feel cheated. They also could have brought him back full-time, which most people wanted. But they didn't.

true but that would've been a little unrealistic. I too hoped for more (8-12) eps but I'm just glad that he's back


They offed Elizabeth. Also had a chance to bring her back full time, mind you - and the chance not to off her at all.

uh no they didn't want her back full time, she was supposed to be a recurring character and she turned down the offer to appear in s5

GateLadyM
April 15th, 2008, 03:28 PM
who? remember it wasn't M&M's decision to kill off Carson and it's because of them that he's back ;)

Joe Mallozzi said it was Mark "the snake" Stern's idea to bring Carson back (probably from all the hate mail Skiffy was getting). A whole 5 episodes. Ain't that sweet? :rolleyes:

Funny how no one is taking credit for killing Carson in the first place. Its always "they" who did it.

Reiko
April 15th, 2008, 03:33 PM
Joe Mallozzi said it was Mark "the snake" Stern's idea to bring Carson back (probably from all the hate mail Skiffy was getting). A whole 5 episodes. Ain't that sweet? :rolleyes:

.: Wow! A whole five episodes, how sweetly generous of them. :rolleyes:

.: So, that confirms it - it wasn't M&M! ;)


Funny how no one is taking credit for killing Carson in the first place. Its always "they" who did it.

.: "They" are all very, very guilty.

GateLadyM
April 15th, 2008, 03:40 PM
"They" are all very, very guilty.

I saw Paul at a convention last summer and he said the producers called him into an office and he was told they were "mixing things up" and that's how he found out he was canned. He was too much the gentleman to say which producers were there, but all the producers and writers for SG1 and SGA were working both shows at the time, so we can only speculate. Common sense would dictate that it was a "committee" decision though. ;)

Briangate78
April 15th, 2008, 03:46 PM
Joe Mallozzi said it was Mark "the snake" Stern's idea to bring Carson back (probably from all the hate mail Skiffy was getting). A whole 5 episodes. Ain't that sweet? :rolleyes:

Funny how no one is taking credit for killing Carson in the first place. Its always "they" who did it.

Well you know what 5 is better than 0. Plus there is a very good chance he will be getting more next season. It is not set in stone, and they have been stressing the "At least" 5 eps.

Repli!kat
April 15th, 2008, 03:48 PM
Are you arguing that they never should have brought in a new CMO or that it just shouldn't have been her?

Would you have approved of another choice for CMO or just hated that character, too, since it wasn't Carson and the new character was replacing him?

I think I am trying to explain a bit of the (my) hostility towards the character. The CMO position would have had to have been filled by someone. But similar to a child's dislike of the new young stepmom, the new young CMO was at a disadvantage from the get-go. In my opinion, I think it would have worked better to have her be a junior doctor, who could then even complain about some new hard-ass CMO that took Beckett's place. That would put her on "our side" immediately. Who knows? I could be completely wrong about that. :S

PG15
April 15th, 2008, 04:11 PM
.: Wow! A whole five episodes, how sweetly generous of them. :rolleyes:



Beggers can't be choosers.

Jumper_One
April 15th, 2008, 04:15 PM
Joe Mallozzi said it was Mark "the snake" Stern's idea to bring Carson back (probably from all the hate mail Skiffy was getting). A whole 5 episodes. Ain't that sweet? :rolleyes:

actually it wasn't Mark Stern's idea

Mark played a big part in ensuring a certain character’s return to the ranks of the recurring.
http://josephmallozzi.wordpress.com/2008/02/01/february-1-2008-my-only-note-on-your-script-iswhat-the-hell-were-you-thinking/


Funny how no one is taking credit for killing Carson in the first place. Its always "they" who did it.

why should anyone take credit for killing a character? besides we already we know it wasn't M&M's idea




.: Wow! A whole five episodes, how sweetly generous of them. :rolleyes:

better than 0 ;)


.: So, that confirms it - it wasn't M&M! ;)


no it doesn't confirm it


Well you know what 5 is better than 0. Plus there is a very good chance he will be getting more next season. It is not set in stone, and they have been stressing the "At least" 5 eps.

:indeed:

KindlyKeller
April 15th, 2008, 04:20 PM
.: :eek: Oh, no, that's definately not what I mean! I love Jewel and her other roles but I despise the Keller character. Most of this is attributed to really bad writing. All of it is attributed to TPTB. I was simply stating what I said previously to reflect on what other PG15 had written (sarcasm or not) and how sad and true it is. Jewel being more older, or casting another older actress, not to mention the writers actually writing this character with some maturity would have helped her case.

I disagree, but that's reasonable. Fair enough.

Briangate78
April 15th, 2008, 04:54 PM
I think having Keller and Carson both on the show is perfect. Like I said his role will be like a Zelenka and Lorne. Except being a former lead, he'll have a more focused role.

KindlyKeller
April 15th, 2008, 04:59 PM
So, brian, without being TOO specific about exact plans, Carson is likely to

stay on the show, but as a doctor working for Keller? If that's the case, I might have to kill myself instead of entering the episode threads and listening to how Clone Carson should replace her.

Reiko
April 15th, 2008, 05:05 PM
So, brian, without being TOO specific about exact plans, Carson is likely to

stay on the show, but as a doctor working for Keller? If that's the case, I might have to kill myself instead of entering the episode threads and listening to how Clone Carson should replace her.

.: No, I actually think

.: he'll still be on Atlantis, but not working for her, really. I just don't think he's going to be part of the medical team. Yet.

Briangate78
April 15th, 2008, 05:07 PM
So, brian, without being TOO specific about exact plans, Carson is likely to

stay on the show, but as a doctor working for Keller? If that's the case, I might have to kill myself instead of entering the episode threads and listening to how Clone Carson should replace her.

Actually, Carson has more knowledge with genetics ,where as Keller is a more medical doctor. There is always going to be certain diseases and viruses that Carson will be needed to help find a cure or whatnot. He is likely going to be support with his own department. I read some of the spoilers, and they are writing him back into the show. If there is Zelenka and Mckay, and Lorne and Sheppard, there is room for two people in the medical department.

KindlyKeller
April 15th, 2008, 05:08 PM
.: No, I actually think

.: he'll still be on Atlantis, but not working for her, really. I just don't think he's going to be part of the medical team. Yet.

Ah! Okay, that would be better...
Because even though it wouldn't make sense for Clone Carson to take over for Keller, I would also find it strange if he immediately stepped into a position as an underling. It would make sense if he was sort of "on his own," researching things and such.

Briangate78
April 15th, 2008, 05:08 PM
.: No, I actually think

.: he'll still be on Atlantis, but not working for her, really. I just don't think he's going to be part of the medical team. Yet.

Did you read the spoilers for "Whispers"?

He is going on a mission with Sheppard to help investigate a lab left by Michael. Like I said above. Carson is very knowledgable with Genetics.

KindlyKeller
April 15th, 2008, 05:10 PM
Actually, Carson has more knowledge with genetics ,where as Keller is a more medical doctor. There is always going to be certain diseases and viruses that Carson will be needed to help find a cure or whatnot. He is likely going to be support with his own department. I read some of the spoilers, and they are writing him back into the show. If there is Zelenka and Mckay, and Lorne and Sheppard, there is room for two people in the medical department.

Oh, I agree that there's room for both of them. I just wondered about what the professional divide would be. Carson in an R&D kind of role would be perfect, I think.

Reiko
April 15th, 2008, 05:10 PM
Did you read the spoilers for "Whispers"?

He is going on a mission with Sheppard to help investigate a lab left by Michael. Like I said above. Carson is very knowledgable with Genetics.

.: Yep, read 'em.

.: THat's kind of what I meant. He's there more the research stuff than being a doctor, though I sure hope we get to see lots of the latter too :)

Briangate78
April 15th, 2008, 05:10 PM
Ah! Okay, that would be better...
Because even though it wouldn't make sense for Clone Carson to take over for Keller, I would also find it strange if he immediately stepped into a position as an underling. It would make sense if he was sort of "on his own," researching things and such.

Carson does have more experience than Keller. So in reality and in the show, he should still be apart of the decision making, imo. But he is not going to take over Keller's job.

Briangate78
April 15th, 2008, 05:12 PM
.: Yep, read 'em.

.: THat's kind of what I meant. He's there more the research stuff than being a doctor, though I sure hope we get to see lots of the latter too :)

Yes, exactly. He is going to be in the research area. With this new enemy upon us, it could leave a lot of room for Carson to appear.

KindlyKeller
April 15th, 2008, 05:13 PM
Carson does have more experience than Keller. So in reality and in the show, he should still be apart of the decision making, imo. But he is not going to take over Keller's job.

He definitely does. My point, I guess, is that it doesn't make sense to replace someone who everyone there believes is performing well in the position. Plus, I think the likes of the IOA would have great reservations, considering it's "Clone Carson" and not real Carson. Personally, I'm excited about the notion of them coexisting.

Briangate78
April 15th, 2008, 05:18 PM
He definitely does. My point, I guess, is that it doesn't make sense to replace someone who everyone there believes is performing well in the position. Plus, I think the likes of the IOA would have great reservations, considering it's "Clone Carson" and not real Carson. Personally, I'm excited about the notion of them coexisting.

I loved the Kindred, not just because of the whole Michael, Teyla, and Carson story arcs, but how Keller and Carson were working side by side. It worked, imo. It worked really well. The last scene when Keller puts her arm around Carson and says "I am going to do everything in my power to solve this" was truly very powerful. Even when they were operating on Nabil(SP?) Carson was there and it did not clash, it worked well. Too bad Carson collapsed though, lol.

PG15
April 15th, 2008, 05:18 PM
So many spoiler tags in this thread! :p

jenks
April 15th, 2008, 05:18 PM
Keller will probably stay as CMO, but Carson will head a research team or something.

Briangate78
April 15th, 2008, 05:19 PM
So many spoiler tags in this thread! :p

Huh? :p

Briangate78
April 15th, 2008, 05:20 PM
Keller will probably stay as CMO, but Carson will head a research team or something.

Yup, that is exactly what will likely happen. It works well that way. I am sure Carson will also get called to the infirmary on some occasions.

Jeffala
April 15th, 2008, 05:29 PM
I'm still surprised that anyone trusts the clone as much as they seem to.

Briangate78
April 15th, 2008, 05:33 PM
I'm still surprised that anyone trusts the clone as much as they seem to.

Carson clone was dying, and he led them to the address where Michael and Teyla were. They were just too late. I am sure that will be one of the first issues Mr. Woolsey causes some friction with. I cannot wait.

Jeffala
April 15th, 2008, 05:55 PM
Carson clone was dying, and he led them to the address where Michael and Teyla were. They were just too late. I am sure that will be one of the first issues Mr. Woolsey causes some friction with. I cannot wait.

I can't remember but did he ever tell them (or did they figure out) that Michael could control him?

Briangate78
April 15th, 2008, 06:00 PM
I can't remember but did he ever tell them (or did they figure out) that Michael could control him?

Michael could not control him. He basically had a fail safe that he could not kill Michael. But I think it would be very interesting if Carson is the one who kills Michael. Talk about character development.

Reiko
April 15th, 2008, 06:03 PM
Michael could not control him. He basically had a fail safe that he could not kill Michael. But I think it would be very interesting if Carson is the one who kills Michael. Talk about character development.

.: He's the one that started it, after all - I think he's gotta be the one to put an end to it. :cool:

Jeffala
April 15th, 2008, 06:07 PM
Michael could not control him. He basically had a fail safe that he could not kill Michael. But I think it would be very interesting if Carson is the one who kills Michael. Talk about character development.


MICHAEL: He doesn't want to shoot me. Or, to be more precise, he'd like nothing more but – like all of my creations – he is open to my influence.

We don't know the extent of Michael's "influence" over him. He could be able to control him. We just don't know.

The clone shouldn't be trusted--at least not until Michael's dead.


Of course, now I've introduced yet a third (or have I lost count) topic to this thread. *sigh*

Briangate78
April 15th, 2008, 06:09 PM
We don't know the extent of Michael's "influence" over him. He could be able to control him. We just don't know.

The clone shouldn't be trusted--at least not until Michael's dead.


Of course, now I've introduced yet a third (or have I lost count) topic to this thread. *sigh*

Honestly, Carson returning and how he will return is likely one of the most anticipated story arcs for next season. There are a lot, but this is just one I am personally am anticipating. :)

Reiko
April 15th, 2008, 06:15 PM
Honestly, Carson returning and how he will return is likely one of the most anticipated story arcs for next season. There are a lot, but this is just one I am personally am anticipating. :)

.: He's the only reason I'm watching, so yes it's highly anticipated ;)

.: What Jeffala said makes me want him to kill Michael even more :P

Jeffala
April 15th, 2008, 06:20 PM
http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/mm128/sicucowgirls/derail.gif

It's a gift.

Reiko
April 15th, 2008, 07:27 PM
.: Yes. Gifted. We are so derailed! :P

Mitchell82
April 15th, 2008, 08:54 PM
http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/mm128/sicucowgirls/derail.gif

:lol: Can I steal that?

Mitchell82
April 15th, 2008, 09:12 PM
Go right ahead, I think I got it from another forum a while ago (in a galaxy far far away) :)

:lol: How's Jar Jar?;)

Mitchell82
April 15th, 2008, 09:28 PM
Preparing for his role as one of the mysterious new aliens in Season 5. But it's a secret, so don't tell anyone.;)

:lol: You might get a few reds from this one, though not from me though I liked him.

g.o.d
April 16th, 2008, 11:06 AM
I believe relationships are very important in shows, but I also think they are useless in the "big red reset button" shows like SGA. Why should they maintain relationships in SGA, if they always cancel them with end credits?

Briangate78
April 16th, 2008, 11:23 AM
I believe relationships are very important in shows, but I also think they are useless in the "big red reset button" shows like SGA. Why should they maintain relationships in SGA, if they always cancel them with end credits?

Big Red reset button? Only one character really changed. :S

It's funny you mention relationships, because it took till Season 4 to really show how much Sheppard cared for Weir. We also got a little taste of the friendship bonds between Sheppard and Teyla, and Teyla and Ronon. There was even a Mckay and Teyla moment, Also with Carson returning, even though it is a friendship bond, it really showed last season. I think the relationship and Friendship factor was really high for Season 4.

Dude, if you want people hooking up , having sex with everyone on base, and your love triangles we should watch BSG.

Atlantis, is more of the team friendship bond and how these characters interact with eachother.

g.o.d
April 16th, 2008, 11:32 AM
Big Red reset button? Only one character really changed. :S

It's funny you mention relationships, because it took till Season 4 to really show how much Sheppard cared for Weir. We also got a little taste of the friendship bonds between Sheppard and Teyla, and Teyla and Ronon. There was even a Mckay and Teyla moment, Also with Carson returning, even though it is a friendship bond, it really showed last season. I think the relationship and Friendship factor was really high for Season 4.

sorry, but for me, it's still the same. No character improvement at all, they're all still the same people since the beginning. There were bonds between Elizabeth and Rodney, Rodney and Carson. But it's all gone.


Dude, if you want people hooking up , having sex with everyone on base, and your love triangles we should watch BSG.

I watch BSG, you know that :p


Atlantis, is more of the team friendship bond and how these characters interact with eachother.

perhaps. Watch Firefly and you'll understand what I mean by "team frienship" and interaction between characters;)

Briangate78
April 16th, 2008, 11:34 AM
sorry, but for me, it's still the same. No character improvement at all, they're all still the same people since the beginning. There were bonds between Elizabeth and Rodney, Rodney and Carson. But it's all gone.

I watch BSG, you know that :p


perhaps. Watch Firefly and you'll understand what I mean by "team frienship" and interaction between characters;)

I was not a big fan of Firefly. So you did not feel anything for "The Kindred"? I thought it was a very powerful bond between Carson and the entire team, especially Rodney. It proved a point that Carson needs to be in the show more, imo.

But like you said, it's different tastes really. :)

g.o.d
April 16th, 2008, 11:42 AM
I was not a big fan of Firefly. So you did not feel anything for "The Kindred"? I thought it was a very powerful bond between Carson and the entire team, especially Rodney. It proved a point that Carson needs to be in the show more, imo.

But like you said, it's different tastes really. :)

I didn't feel a thing

but I agree, Carson needs to be in the show.

Jumper_One
April 16th, 2008, 11:48 AM
I believe relationships are very important in shows, but I also think they are useless in the "big red reset button" shows like SGA. Why should they maintain relationships in SGA, if they always cancel them with end credits?

are you saying s4 was a reset? if so what did you think of s9 of SG-1?

Briangate78
April 16th, 2008, 12:00 PM
I didn't feel a thing

but I agree, Carson needs to be in the show.

Are you a Vulcan? Sorry could not resist, NBL! :p

jelgate
April 16th, 2008, 01:04 PM
Are you a Vulcan? Sorry could not resist, NBL! :p

I felt the same way. Kindred to me cheapens the real Beckett's death.

Reiko
April 16th, 2008, 03:10 PM
:lol: How's Jar Jar?;)

.: Keller would like to send out a marriage proposal ... :P



Dude, if you want people hooking up , having sex with everyone on base, and your love triangles we should watch BSG.
Atlantis, is more of the team friendship bond and how these characters interact with eachother.

.: *cough*Keller*cough* on the first part :P

.: As for the latter, I agree, but the chemistry and dynamic that were present in the first three seasons is gone. The forced Keller scenes also annoy me as you already know. Arrgh.

.: But ITA. They just need Elizabeth back, Keller gone and then maybe I'll settle down.

Jumper_One
April 16th, 2008, 03:53 PM
.: Keller would like to send out a marriage proposal ... :P

LOL :P


.: *cough*Keller*cough* on the first part :P

how so? she didn't have sex with Ronon and/or Rodney and her relationship with Rodney will not have happened once the timeline has been changed


.: As for the latter, I agree, but the chemistry and dynamic that were present in the first three seasons is gone. The forced Keller scenes also annoy me as you already know. Arrgh.

I disagree there's still chemistry. sure some things were lost but the show also gained a lot due to the presence of Sam and Keller in s4 and also Woolsey in s5


.: But ITA. They just need Elizabeth back, Keller gone and then maybe I'll settle down.


Keller will probably stay and we won't see Weir again as long as TH doesn't want to come back. also it depends on the events of GitM

KindlyKeller
April 16th, 2008, 03:54 PM
We have no evidence of any "love triangle" based on the episodes that have aired. She had one near kiss in an unusual situation, that was never followed up on, giving me personally the impression that they both wrote it off and moved on. Then she had a relationship with McKay in an alternate timeline, which neither of them knows about since Sheppard returned to change things. There has be nothing thus far to indicate any kind of triangle. We'll see if Season 5 brings one. I, like everyone else, hope not.

Pic
April 16th, 2008, 05:35 PM
We have no evidence of any "love triangle" based on the episodes that have aired. She had one near kiss in an unusual situation, that was never followed up on, giving me personally the impression that they both wrote it off and moved on. Then she had a relationship with McKay in an alternate timeline, which neither of them knows about since Sheppard returned to change things. There has be nothing thus far to indicate any kind of triangle. We'll see if Season 5 brings one. I, like everyone else, hope not.

Yes, the Keller we have today has not whored around. I can't believe people are getting that out of s4. Uh, almost kissed a hot guy and had a mature relationship in an alternative future. I think it's referred to as "a life". Something Will*ahem*Captain Kirk** suggested we all get.

As a geek and a wallflower in college, I understand the draw to join in bar-gags which require a small amount of intelligence... it's a way to get your foot in the door with the "cool" folks if you're a smart, slightly geeky college student who watches star trek (but enough of my college days, after the games of a#%hole and quarters, any more details are a little fuzzy...). Anyway, these pieces of her past were not incompatible. Keep in mind, I'm referring to COLLEGE, which was some years ago for me, and apparently some years ago for Keller. This is not a mature rationale, but it seems to work when you're 19 or 20.

And thank you, for attempting to bring it back on topic again. This thread is not how Keller ruined Carson's life by taking over as CMO. ;)

I'll say it again, I have nothing against Carson. In fact, like Briangate, I thought some of the scenes in Kindred with Keller and Carson were quite touching. But, unless Carson and Keller are getting some 'ship'-time... I digress.

So, I'll get back on topic by restating what I've said before.
#1 Ronan and Keller just don't match up in my book. An unlikely alliance, perhaps, but nothing 'shippy' about them. I agree with the comment that Keller reminding Ronan of his dead lover (not sure he was married, he told Sheppard once that it was "something like that") makes it weird and sort of a circumstantial almost-kiss. Nothing more.
#2 Rodney and Keller match up better, but detracts from any potential Keller could develop on her own. I do, however, see a solid friendship developing between these two. That would be welcome.

So, in closing... Carson's such a nice guy, you know he'd be uncomfortable with all this conflict.
Seriously, you know Carson would hate this. ;)

Reiko
April 16th, 2008, 08:11 PM
But, unless Carson and Keller are getting some 'ship'-time... I digress.

.: :eek: Don't mention that ever again. I will be plagued by nightmares :eek:


#2 Rodney and Keller match up better, but detracts from any potential Keller could develop on her own. I do, however, see a solid friendship developing between these two. That would be welcome.

.: Friendship is good, but I don't think I'm having that kiss erased from my memory anytime soon :S


So, in closing... Carson's such a nice guy, you know he'd be uncomfortable with all this conflict.
Seriously, you know Carson would hate this. ;)

.: Fine, I'll admit it. He would hate this :P

.: (besides, he's mine anyway ;) )

ykickamoocow
April 16th, 2008, 10:44 PM
McKay/Keller feels more natural than Ronon/Keller but i have no idea what will happen next season as i think Jason Momoa alluded to a possible love tirangle between McKay, Keller and Ronon.

Though i should point out that it might not be both male characters going after Keller. Ronon and Keller could be going after McKay for all we know :D

GateofDOOM
April 16th, 2008, 11:49 PM
Though i should point out that it might not be both male characters going after Keller. Ronon and Keller could be going after McKay for all we know :D

Now that I would watch!! :D

In the meantime, I would like to say nay to both Rodney/Keller and Ronon/Keller.
And fervently hope that Jason Momoa was kidding. (Oh please god....NO LOVE TRIANGLE!!! If they go this route I will be jumping in the anti-Keller camp right quick.)

Lenas
April 17th, 2008, 03:30 AM
Now that I would watch!! :D

In the meantime, I would like to say nay to both Rodney/Keller and Ronon/Keller.
And fervently hope that Jason Momoa was kidding. (Oh please god....NO LOVE TRIANGLE!!! If they go this route I will be jumping in the anti-Keller camp right quick.)

Well, JM got the question on his blog - and the answer to the love triangle thing was Tracker ep, simply as that. He could have answered just no, but didn´t. So I take that as a Yes, something of the sort will happen in Tracker, I will turn off my tv, or throw it out the window, or reach for a barf-bag, or....just don´t know how I will react yet, but It wont be pretty!

Back to the topic - NEITHER!

(Always feel welcome to the anti thread!);)l

KindlyKeller
April 17th, 2008, 05:01 AM
Well, JM got the question on his blog - and the answer to the love triangle thing was Tracker ep, simply as that. He could have answered just no, but didn´t. So I take that as a Yes, something of the sort will happen in Tracker, I will turn off my tv, or throw it out the window, or reach for a barf-bag, or....just don´t know how I will react yet, but It wont be pretty!

Back to the topic - NEITHER!

(Always feel welcome to the anti thread!);)l

But the question posed to him wasn't: "Is there a triangle?" That's not my recollection at least. The question referred to a "scrum" or some other vague term that doesn't necessarily have to have romantic implications.

FoolishPleasure
April 17th, 2008, 05:18 AM
But the question posed to him wasn't: "Is there a triangle?" That's not my recollection at least. The question referred to a "scrum" or some other vague term that doesn't necessarily have to have romantic implications.

They asked about a Keller/Ronon/McKay "scramble". That would be the same thing as a "triangle" to me. JM didn't deny it either, which is depressing.

KindlyKeller
April 17th, 2008, 06:03 AM
I have no idea what the heck "scramble" would mean it that context, so who knows. We'll see when it comes down, I guess.

Falcon Horus
April 17th, 2008, 06:18 AM
I have no idea what the heck "scramble" would mean it that context, so who knows. We'll see when it comes down, I guess.

Maybe like a scrambled egg? :p

Mountiegirl
April 17th, 2008, 06:37 AM
Okay, as a newbie I'm gonna go in a talk about the topic.
Basically, I think what Keller/Ronon have a friendship that is developing. I personally am a Ronon/Keller shipper so I'm slightly biased.
As to Rodney/Keller, I think what he did in "The last man" was sweet, changing the timeline after she died - I assume because she died and he loved her and even though he didn't know if they would end up together in the new timeline he still wanted her alive. I think I have romanticized that a bit. But like Sheppard said when McKay told him about him and Keller "You and the Doc?"
I think what they have is friendship.
Thing is you don't know how this is going to end, you have to keep in mind that Ronon is constantly in need of stitches, maybe so he can see a certain Doctor. I read way to much fanfiction.
Anyway, so that's my five eggs.
Going now...

Falcon Horus
April 17th, 2008, 06:41 AM
Okay, as a newbie I'm gonna go in a talk about the topic.

*giggles* Nice of you to stay on topic... :p

But going off topic is so much fun! *hides*

Reiko
April 17th, 2008, 07:24 AM
As to Rodney/Keller, I think what he did in "The last man" was sweet, changing the timeline after she died

.: I'm gonna put this bluntly to explain the first problem I have: Rodney should have changed the timeline for Carson and Elizabeth. I truly think he would value them much, much more than Keller. It would be much more touching if he did so for the sake of friendship that he didn't learn the value of until it was too late. I would much rather have him do that. It would make me a very happy girl.

.: Second: The other problem is that every time I see Keller and Rodney together, I'm like, "that could be me and my Dad". Not that my Dad is anything like Rodney nor I am definately not like Keller. But, seriously. I know they're adults, and they're not related. But ... squick. No other way to really describe it. :S

elliecat
April 17th, 2008, 07:35 AM
.: I'm gonna put this bluntly to explain the first problem I have: Rodney should have changed the timeline for Carson and Elizabeth. I truly think he would value them much, much more than Keller. It would be much more touching if he did so for the sake of friendship that he didn't learn the value of until it was too late. I would much rather have him do that. It would make me a very happy girl.

.: Second: The other problem is that every time I see Keller and Rodney together, I'm like, "that could be me and my Dad". Not that my Dad is anything like Rodney nor I am definately not like Keller. But, seriously. I know they're adults, and they're not related. But ... squick. No other way to really describe it. :S

ITA - There's something really creepy about the whole Rodney/Keller thing. Where did it come from anyway? Sometimes people put other people together and maybe you don't like it but you CAN see it, but not with this at all.

I dont personally like Teyla/Sheppard or Weir/Sheppard or other ships that have been brought up, but I DO see why people ship them or like that particular pairing. I do not see any such thing with Keller/Rodney or Keller/Ronon.

And the Rodney that I loved in seasons 1-3 would have changed the timeline for Carson/Weir/Sheppard in a heartbeat, not wait around because he had found a girlfriend and then do it because she died, I hated TPTB for making Rodney that way.

Lythisrose
April 17th, 2008, 08:18 AM
.: Second: The other problem is that every time I see Keller and Rodney together, I'm like, "that could be me and my Dad". Not that my Dad is anything like Rodney nor I am definately not like Keller. But, seriously. I know they're adults, and they're not related. But ... squick. No other way to really describe it. :S[/COLOR]

I think that's my problem with McKeller too, I do get that father/daughter or adult/teen vibe, which is kinda creepy to me. eew :(

KindlyKeller
April 17th, 2008, 08:18 AM
.: Second: The other problem is that every time I see Keller and Rodney together, I'm like, "that could be me and my Dad". Not that my Dad is anything like Rodney nor I am definately not like Keller. But, seriously. I know they're adults, and they're not related. But ... squick. No other way to really describe it. :S

:S I don't get it. Something tells me I don't want to either.

KindlyKeller
April 17th, 2008, 08:19 AM
All right, the Hate is raining down. I better get out of here before uncivil words are exchanged.

Falcon Horus
April 17th, 2008, 08:20 AM
:S I don't get it. Something tells me I don't want to either.

I think Reiko refers to the clear age difference... Or the part where Keller looks like a teenager and Rodney being a 40ier.

KindlyKeller
April 17th, 2008, 08:24 AM
Except that she clearly doesn't look like a teenager and her CHARACTER is closer to 30, and relationships like that happen all the time and aren't creepy. My friend is 24, going out with someone who is 42, and not once has anyone ever expressed finding that creepy, in front of them or behind closed doors, because it's incredibly NORMAL. The age difference between Jen and Rodney is several years slimmer than that margin.

But I promised myself I was going to leave, so off I go.

Falcon Horus
April 17th, 2008, 08:36 AM
Unfortunately Jewel looks exactly her age, and that is still 5 years away from thirty, which makes it hard for me to see her as someone closer to 30.

I can see Reiko's point...

Of course, it depends what you find to be normal... 42/24 - not exactly normal in my book, but if they're happy so be it... 10 years, really is the limit to me personally.

Why would you leave? Unless of course, you're about tp say something you might regret later on... in that case, cool down, and come back.

Briangate78
April 17th, 2008, 08:42 AM
All right, the Hate is raining down. I better get out of here before uncivil words are exchanged.

You are always welcome to post on the Compliment and Praise thread. Come on by we have pizza. :p

Fenrir Foxz
April 17th, 2008, 08:46 AM
You are always welcome to post on the Compliment and Praise thread. Come on by we have pizza. :p

Dude you've been witholding pizza? :P

Falcon Horus
April 17th, 2008, 08:47 AM
Dude you've been witholding pizza? :P

We have cookies... :p

Lythisrose
April 17th, 2008, 08:48 AM
All right, the Hate is raining down. I better get out of here before uncivil words are exchanged.

No hatred of the character implied on my part here, merely my reason for being uncomfortable with the pairing. :S

Fenrir Foxz
April 17th, 2008, 08:50 AM
We have cookies... :p

LoL... Integrabyte tried to lure me to the darkside with cookies :P

Falcon Horus
April 17th, 2008, 08:52 AM
LoL... Integrabyte tried to lure me to the darkside with cookies :P

Of course, he did.

Fenrir Foxz
April 17th, 2008, 08:55 AM
Of course, he did.

Yup, cookies couldn't change my opinion on S4... doubt they will on S5 either :cool:

Falcon Horus
April 17th, 2008, 08:59 AM
Yup, cookies couldn't change my opinion on S4... doubt they will on S5 either :cool:

We can always try... :p

Fenrir Foxz
April 17th, 2008, 09:10 AM
Yup... :P

Reiko
April 17th, 2008, 11:52 AM
.: I think that's what it is. In all honestly, Keller is like a little girl. Especially with the way she has been written. Rodney is more mature, (though I'm sure some can contradict that :P ) And that's the problem I have. I have no problem with people of age differences being together. It's just like, she's 25 and he's 42. (I think.) That's a 17 year age difference. It's not so much he's 42; it's her younger age.

.: Now compare the 17 year old age difference with a 40-year old and a 57-year old. A lot different when you consider it, is it not?

.: I guess that's why I find it uncomfortable personally :o

PG15
April 17th, 2008, 03:22 PM
They asked about a Keller/Ronon/McKay "scramble". That would be the same thing as a "triangle" to me. JM didn't deny it either, which is depressing.

Just for clarities sake, here is the question from JM's blog:


Dignan50yp writes: “…why the sudden desperate need to pair up our characters in romantic situations?”

Answer: 1. I would hardly call it a romantic situation. 2. I think both “sudden” and “desperate” are the wrong words.


http://josephmallozzi.wordpress.com/2008/04/10/april-10-2008-my-horrorific-top-ten/

Pandora's_Box
April 17th, 2008, 05:40 PM
Unfortunately Jewel looks exactly her age, and that is still 5 years away from thirty, which makes it hard for me to see her as someone closer to 30.


And yet close to 30 is how old her character more than likely is at this point. Sci-fi as a genre requires greater suspensions of disbelief than trying to imagine a woman that is 25 as being 29. That's not too big a leap, I say.


[COLOR="DarkOrchid"].: I think that's what it is. In all honestly, Keller is like a little girl. Especially with the way she has been written. Rodney is more mature, (though I'm sure some can contradict that :P ) And that's the problem I have. I have no problem with people of age differences being together. It's just like, she's 25 and he's 42. (I think.) That's a 17 year age difference. It's not so much he's 42; it's her younger age.

Where is everyone getting this notion that the man is 42? He's 40. And according to 'Quarantine', he's just turning 40 this year. Much like the actor.

Personally, I don't mind the age difference. 10 years, give or take a couple, is not a big deal in my book as they both seem to be fully functioning, rational, intelligent adults.

And when has Keller ever been portrayed as a "little girl"? She has always been very professional when it comes to her work ('Adrift', 'Trio', 'Tabula Rasa' and 'Kindred I and II' come to mind) and seems to have adult relationships with her co-workers and team mates.
If this whole "little girl" thing is about 'Missing'...well...I commend the writers for writing an honest and believable portrayal of how a character would act if subjected to terrifying circumstances with no training or preparation for such situations. And no...I didn't find her annoying.

I also don't mind the idea of a relationship occuring between Keller and another character. Do I prefer Rodney over Ronon? Sure. I think they're better suited for each other. That said, do I want a love triangle or anything other than a subtle progression from friendship to romance in the background of the storylines? No. Subtle and unobtrusive is fine with me. In fact I would prefer it.

Lenas
April 17th, 2008, 11:17 PM
And when has Keller ever been portrayed as a "little girl"?

I say it was in Quarantine, the flirting was that of at girl to me, not at woman or a professional doctor, at all!! As a doctor she should understand that Ronon still suffers from great loss and a tramumatic background and she should have offered him professional help. Not talking about not fitting in, not being invited to parties???
In her defends though, they way Ronon was so OOC in this ep, that was even more painfull to watch! The whole scene was just ......awful! They came off as two virgin teenagers, not as a mature woman and man at all!
(Me, I just switched the tv off *yew*)



No. Subtle and unobtrusive is fine with me. In fact I would prefer it.

Me too!

ykickamoocow
April 17th, 2008, 11:26 PM
I say it was in Quarantine, the flirting was that of at girl to me, not at woman or a professional doctor, at all!! As a doctor she should understand that Ronon still suffers from great loss and a tramumatic background and she should have offered him professional help. Not talking about not fitting in, not being invited to parties???
In her defends though, they way Ronon was so OOC in this ep, that was even more painfull to watch! The whole scene was just ......awful! They came off as two virgin teenagers, not as a mature woman and man at all!
(Me, I just switched the tv off *yew*)

"Quarantine" is the only episode of Stargate Atlantis that i havent finished watching. The Zelenka/Carter and Sheppard/Teyla scenes were fine but the Ronon/Keller and McKay/Brown scenes were impossible to watch as both scenes Ronon, Keller and McKay all behaved in a way which wasnt consistant with their established character traits.

elliecat
April 18th, 2008, 03:37 AM
Thats what is so annoying, Ronon AND Rodney are acting so out of character because Keller is around and I for one can't stand that, I liked them the way there were!

I also found it really hard to watch the Keller/Ronon and Rodney/Katie scenes in 'Quarantine' and it will be an episode that I will watch and fast forward those bits because they were so bad. Which is a shame because I normally like scenes with Rodney and Ronon in. :(

Lenas
April 18th, 2008, 04:07 AM
Thats what is so annoying, Ronon AND Rodney are acting so out of character because Keller is around and I for one can't stand that, I liked them the way there were!

I know this is a bit off topic- but why did they have to drag poor Zelenka in all of this??? In Trio, smelling her hair?

What has he ever did wrong, always nice and sweet and putting up with McKay. Why make him come across as some sort of pervo - and yet another man on Atlantis that can´t stay away from Dr Barbie!
OMG, that just made me so angrrrrrrrryyyy!!

What´s next Shep, Lorne or maybe Chuck??:(

elliecat
April 18th, 2008, 04:25 AM
I know this is a bit off topic- but why did they have to drag poor Zelenka in all of this??? In Trio, smelling her hair?

What has he ever did wrong, always nice and sweet and putting up with McKay. Why make him come across as some sort of pervo - and yet another man on Atlantis that can´t stay away from Dr Barbie!
OMG, that just made me so angrrrrrrrryyyy!!

What´s next Shep, Lorne or maybe Chuck??:(

It makes me so angry too about Zelenka. :mad: I didn't like Keller before this episode but after what she said about poor Radek I hated her even more because Zelenka is one of my favourite characters. Sniffing her her? What a joke, but we must remember all men fancy Keller coz TPTB do. ggrrrrr

And Zelenka is so ace and he was the butt of their joke, except it really wasnt funny, like you said they made him out to be a perv. Not acceptable!

If she goes anywhere near Shep, there will be big trouble I can tell you, a lot of the Sheppard fans are upset with Keller coz we are hearing nothing about Shep and more about her. Who's the lead of the show again? It's Keller right? :rolleyes:

Pandora's_Box
April 18th, 2008, 05:14 AM
I say it was in Quarantine, the flirting was that of at girl to me, not at woman or a professional doctor, at all!! As a doctor she should understand that Ronon still suffers from great loss and a tramumatic background and she should have offered him professional help. Not talking about not fitting in, not being invited to parties???
In her defends though, they way Ronon was so OOC in this ep, that was even more painfull to watch! The whole scene was just ......awful! They came off as two virgin teenagers, not as a mature woman and man at all!
(Me, I just switched the tv off *yew*)


'Quarantine' was just painful to watch as a whole. Everyone seemed to be just off. Rodney especially and I hated his scenes with Katie in the botany labs.
Hated the Ronon/Jennifer scenes too because, yes, they were both horrendously OOC. Granted we don't know the character of Jennifer Keller as well as we do the others but I can fairly imagine that along with Ronon and Rodney, she was very OOC as well.
And if she wasn't, and she happens to act all flirty and "girly" when in a possibly intimate situation, why should that be a problem? Why does that have to detract from her character?
Realistically speaking, is everyone always composed and professional when dealing with a situation where they don't have to be composed and professional? It's not like he was her patient and she had responsibilities towards him. She's a beautiful woman, he's a handsome man, there seemed to be mutual interest between them, so they flirted and she was "girly". Cool. If it came across as juvenile flirting, then thats the fault of the writers for both characters not just Keller.


Thats what is so annoying, Ronon AND Rodney are acting so out of character because Keller is around and I for one can't stand that, I liked them the way there were!

That's not fair. Keller is not the sole reason why Ronon and Rodey are ever portrayed OOC. I think that's just taking one instance and projecting it on various other instances when it doesn't apply. Those three characters have had numerous other interactions where they've all managed to stay in character while in the same scenes together.



If she goes anywhere near Shep, there will be big trouble I can tell you, a lot of the Sheppard fans are upset with Keller coz we are hearing nothing about Shep and more about her. Who's the lead of the show again? It's Keller right? :rolleyes:

I think Joe M. explained this very nicely and accurately here (http://josephmallozzi.wordpress.com/2008/04/17/april-17-2008-in-which-production-developments-are-discussed-fan-concerns-are-addressed-and-the-writer-bemoans-his-early-call/)

Here's the pertinent part:


I, uh, can’t help but notice fans up in arms over the lack of Sheppard spoilers. They complain that all they’ve heard concerning season 5 is talk of Ronon and McKay. Well, there’s a good reason for that. Your source of information for season 5, so far, have been David Hewlett and myself. David, of course, updates you on what he has been working on - and his work usually involves the character of Rodney McKay. I, on the other hand, have been focusing on the episodes I have written/produced: Broken Ties and Whispers. As a result, there has been an clear imbalance in the teaser department. But until any of the other actors or producers start blogging, I’m afraid that’s the way it’s going to be. I will occasionally mention what everyone else is up to (my mention of Alan’s work on Daedalus Variations in today’s entry, for instance) but, for the most part, I’ll continue to offer insight into what I happen to be working on.

I think that explains it very nicely.

I'm also agog at the fact that people are using a lack of Sheppard spoilers to fuel their hate for Jennifer Keller. It's just mind-boggling to me!

Lenas
April 18th, 2008, 05:40 AM
She's a beautiful woman, he's a handsome man, there seemed to be mutual interest between them, so they flirted and she was "girly". Cool. If it came across as juvenile flirting, then thats the fault of the writers for both characters not just Keller.

She´s a young woman, he´s a very handsome man, and NO I do not think it´s *cool* to flirt in a situation like that. Maybe start a friendship first, just an idea? Ask him out for a date? It did came across as juvenil flirting, and I really believe a female writer could have done this so much better!

But they didn´t stop at this, they went on with Trio to make things even worse!! (and dragging poor Zelenka, McKay and Carter in the gutter as well!) :(
And that was it , the Keller character is destroyed and I want to see as little of her as possible.

FoolishPleasure
April 18th, 2008, 05:44 AM
I'm also agog at the fact that people are using a lack of Sheppard spoilers to fuel their hate for Jennifer Keller. It's just mind-boggling to me!

Lack of Sheppard has nothing to do with Keller hate. Keller is a poorly conceived and terribly written character. She is mid-20's, a doctor, but talks about being out of shape and out of breath, almost like it is a badge of honor. She is a doctor who brags about drinking games. She flirts like a high schooler. She freaks out at anything strange or unusual (how DID she pass that mental screening anyway?). Her favorite phrase is, "There is nothing more I can do for him."

No, it has nothing to do with Shep or any other character. Keller just sucks!

Lenas
April 18th, 2008, 05:47 AM
If she goes anywhere near Shep, there will be big trouble I can tell you, a lot of the Sheppard fans are upset with Keller coz we are hearing nothing about Shep and more about her. Who's the lead of the show again? It's Keller right? :rolleyes:

I can only imagine the Shep fans reaction if she starts flirting with him, and the whumpers, OMG!;)
Some pity for us Ronon fans please, just imagine what we´ve had to put up with. And maybe it´s not over yet, Tracker *shivers*.

Yep, it´s all Keller and co, jeez....

elliecat
April 18th, 2008, 05:54 AM
The people that were annoyed about no Sheppard spoilers (ie me) must have already not liked Keller because they didn't complain about Ronon or Rodney being in the episode or about any other characters for that matter just her. There must have been something there to start with.

Keller has been written very poorly and comes across very badly on Atlantis.

Pandora's_Box
April 18th, 2008, 06:20 AM
She´s a young woman, he´s a very handsome man, and NO I do not think it´s *cool* to flirt in a situation like that.

What was so wrong about the situation that they couldn't have flirted? A little levity when facing a potentially deadly sitatuation is always out of the question? Must remember to tell the writer's to never ever write jokes into conversations when the Team is facing certain death then.



Maybe start a friendship first, just an idea? Ask him out for a date? It did came across as juvenil flirting, and I really believe a female writer could have done this so much better!

You know, I don't believe all their scenes in 'Quarantine' were flirt-laden. I do believe they spent at least some of that time sharing stories about their pasts. That, IMO, is what friends do. They may not have been the best written scenes ever, and yeah a woman probably could ahve written them better, but blame the writers for that.



But they didn´t stop at this, they went on with Trio to make things even worse!! (and dragging poor Zelenka, McKay and Carter in the gutter as well!) :(
And that was it , the Keller character is destroyed and I want to see as little of her as possible.

'Trio' was a bad portrayal of her character? Why? Because she helped come up with a plan to try and save their lives? Or maybe it was that she spoke to Rodney with kindness and sincerity? Or that she came up with an entertaining game to pass the time? Yep, I can see the reasons for the hate now.


Lack of Sheppard has nothing to do with Keller hate. Keller is a poorly conceived and terribly written character. She is mid-20's, a doctor, but talks about being out of shape and out of breath, almost like it is a badge of honor.

When? 'Cause I believe she admonished Rodney for that very offence.



She is a doctor who brags about drinking games.

She hardly bragged. She mentioned knowing the game and mentioned that it reminded her of a way they might get out of the cavern.

Plus, are doctors supposed to be stoic and serious all the time? Are they not supposed to drink and enjoy themselves? That's hardly fair.



She flirts like a high schooler.

Debatable. But so long as we're using 'Quarantine' as the meter stick for characterization, then so does Ronon. And Rodney is super self-absorbed and a hypochondriac to the point where he can't function in an intelligent manner.



She freaks out at anything strange or unusual (how DID she pass that mental screening anyway?).

When has she freaked out at anthing to the point of being so unable to function that she shouldn't have passed a mental screening?
She faced terrifying situations in 'Missing' with, I admit, a modicum of dignity. She faced her vertigo and crossed that bridge. She stood up not only to the wraith-worshipper at the end but to Teyla near the beginning when she inststed on saving him. Maybe the wrong choice but at least she has good morals.
I don't recall any "freaking out".



Her favorite phrase is, "There is nothing more I can do for him."

Oh hardly. She paraphrased it for Elizabeth because she thought that there wasn't anything she could do. And then, guess what, she came up with a solution. A rather ingenius one.

She used it in reference to Carson becasue maybe there wasn't anything she could do. We're supposed to hate her for the fact that she's honest, admits her limitations, and tries to come up with alternative solutions. Should she have declared she could do it and kept Carson out of stasis and thereby killing him faster?

Do you think it's easy to reverse engineer that kind of serum? Admittadly this is SF but I would still expect a modicum of realism. And no one would be able to reverse engineer such a thing in less than 2 days. Not even Carson.



No, it has nothing to do with Shep or any other character. Keller just sucks!

How succint!

FoolishPleasure
April 18th, 2008, 06:35 AM
When? 'Cause I believe she admonished Rodney for that very offence.

You didn't see "Trio" did you? First scene before the credits rolled: "Oh, I'm so out of shape. *puff-puff* I'm so short of breath. Why did we walk? Why couldn't we take a jumper?" (as Rodney and Carter look at her with the expression, "WTF???") Worst of all was the snide remark about Zelenka being a perv. That was the point where I realized I would never like this character.


Oh hardly. She paraphrased it for Elizabeth because she thought that there wasn't anything she could do. And then, guess what, she came up with a solution. A rather ingenius one.

In "Lifeline" Keller says about Weir: "There is nothing more I can do for her."

In "The Seer" Keller says, "There is nothing more I can do for him."

In "Doppleganger" Keller says, "I don't know what else to do."

In "Tabula Rasa" Keller says, "I don't have a clue what this is or what to do."

In "Kindred" Keller says about Beckett, "There is nothing more I can do for him."

BTW - Keller didn't come up with the solution to save Weir. Rodney did.

ykickamoocow
April 18th, 2008, 06:49 AM
In "Lifeline" Keller says about Weir: "There is nothing more I can do for her."

In "The Seer" Keller says, "There is nothing more I can do for him."

In "Doppleganger" Keller says, "I don't know what else to do."

In "Tabula Rasa" Keller says, "I don't have a clue what this is or what to do."

In "Kindred" Keller says about Beckett, "There is nothing more I can do for him."

BTW - Keller didn't come up with the solution to save Weir. Rodney did.

Only people with wisdom admitt that they do not have all the answers and you can only better yourself when you admitt to yourself that you do not have all the answers.

Also we have to take a step back and realise that Carson would have said the exact some things as Keller as alot of those examples you used it was required that medicine wasnt the answer. It was a plot forwarding device that the doctor doesnt have the answers so they can come up with other more science fiction like solutions. Stargate Atlantis wouldnt be any good if they solved almost every problem using medicine.

Lets take "Tabula Rasa" as a example. If she did know the answer then it would have been a very short episode and im willing to bet that if Carson was the head doctor instead of Keller he would have said the exact same thing otherwise as i said before the episode would have ended very early.

elliecat
April 18th, 2008, 07:07 AM
In "Lifeline" Keller says about Weir: "There is nothing more I can do for her."

In "The Seer" Keller says, "There is nothing more I can do for him."

In "Doppleganger" Keller says, "I don't know what else to do."

In "Tabula Rasa" Keller says, "I don't have a clue what this is or what to do."

In "Kindred" Keller says about Beckett, "There is nothing more I can do for him."

BTW - Keller didn't come up with the solution to save Weir. Rodney did.

My, she has admitted she doesn't know what to do a lot! ;)

I don't think she has saved one person on Atlantis yet has she?

We all have different opinions. I watch Atlantis and the scenes with Keller and they are just so bad. I havnt seen any scene yet which could make me like her character. I'm sorry if that upsets people but that's the way I see things. She is too young to be believable as CMO, she seems to whine a lot (missing/trio) she hasnt provided any good doctoring skills yet, and before anyone can say anything, she is supposed to be one of the best doctors around that is why she is in the Pegasus Galaxy, she should have that something extra thats why she is there.

I didn't set out to hate her I was looking forward to her being there in fact,(even thought I love Carson) but every new episode she does something that bugs me and the Zelenka line? You cannot defend her against that, that was just nasty!

Pandora's_Box
April 18th, 2008, 07:13 AM
You didn't see "Trio" did you? First scene before the credits rolled: "Oh, I'm so out of shape. *puff-puff* I'm so short of breath. Why did we walk? Why couldn't we take a jumper?" (as Rodney and Carter look at her with the expression, "WTF???") Worst of all was the snide remark about Zelenka being a perv. That was the point where I realized I would never like this character.

And she hardly said that like it was a badge of honour. I thought she was more embarrassed by the fact. But of course, you say pot-A-to, I say pot-AU-to.



In "Lifeline" Keller says about Weir: "There is nothing more I can do for her."
BTW - Keller didn't come up with the solution to save Weir. Rodney did.

Actual conversation:
Jennifer:I do have one more idea but I need your help. - shows him the scan of Weir - Remember when Dr.Weir was attacked by that replicator and he iinfected her?
Rodney: Nanites! Carson was able to render them inert using an EMP.
Jennifer: But they're still in her system.
Rodney: You're a genius!



In "The Seer" Keller says, "There is nothing more I can do for him."

And she was instead supposed to find a cure for pancreatic cancer in a couple of days?



In "Doppleganger" Keller says, "I don't know what else to do."

Not everyone always does.



In "Tabula Rasa" Keller says, "I don't have a clue what this is or what to do."

And yet she was the one that looked through Carson's records and found the sample of the bacterium that caused 'Kirsan Fever' which led to Teyla and Ronon mentioning the cure.



In "Kindred" Keller says about Beckett, "There is nothing more I can do for him."

To quote myself from earlier:

She used it in reference to Carson becasue maybe there wasn't anything she could do. We're supposed to hate her for the fact that she's honest, admits her limitations, and tries to come up with alternative solutions. Should she have declared she could do it and kept Carson out of stasis and thereby killing him faster?

Do you think it's easy to reverse engineer that kind of serum? Admittadly this is SF but I would still expect a modicum of realism. And no one would be able to reverse engineer such a thing in less than 2 days. Not even Carson.

Look, I don't think she's been propery introduced or written very consistently. But she's harldy the inept, bumbling character some are making her out to be.

Pandora's_Box
April 18th, 2008, 07:14 AM
[/B]
I don't think she has saved one person on Atlantis yet has she?


You want one person she saved? Weir. She saved Weir.

FoolishPleasure
April 18th, 2008, 07:30 AM
You want one person she saved? Weir. She saved Weir.

Okay, I'll say this one more time before I give up on this thread:

Keller gave up on Weir. Rodney came up with the idea of using the nanites. Not Keller! I've seen her remove splinters and "sorta" set a broken bone. Everyone else DIES or there is nothing she can do for them.

Bad creation, bad addition, and all the flirting with other characters is plain ole bad beyond belief.

jenks
April 18th, 2008, 07:33 AM
Okay, I'll say this one more time before I give up on this thread:

Keller gave up on Weir. Rodney came up with the idea of using the nanites. Not Keller! I've seen her remove splinters and "sorta" set a broken bone. Everyone else DIES or there is nothing she can do for them.

Bad creation, bad addition, and all the flirting with other characters is plain ole bad beyond belief.

KELLER: See those?
McKAY: What are they?
KELLER: Remember when Doctor Weir was attacked by that Replicator and he infected her ...?
McKAY: Nanites. Carson was able to render them inert using an electro-magnetic pulse.
KELLER: But they’re still in her system.
(Rodney stares at her in amazement.)
McKAY: You’re a genius!
(Jennifer shrugs nonchalantly.)
KELLER: Well, you know, trying to save a life and what-not.

Pandora's_Box
April 18th, 2008, 07:40 AM
Okay, I'll say this one more time before I give up on this thread:

Keller gave up on Weir. Rodney came up with the idea of using the nanites. Not Keller! I've seen her remove splinters and "sorta" set a broken bone. Everyone else DIES or there is nothing she can do for them.

Bad creation, bad addition, and all the flirting with other characters is plain ole bad beyond belief.

Oh just go watch the episode again. Or for that matter read more than one post at a time.

And why give up on this thread? We're all sharing points of view. Differing points of view, but I like to think we can still do so civilly.


KELLER: See those?
McKAY: What are they?
KELLER: Remember when Doctor Weir was attacked by that Replicator and he infected her ...?
McKAY: Nanites. Carson was able to render them inert using an electro-magnetic pulse.
KELLER: But they’re still in her system.
(Rodney stares at her in amazement.)
McKAY: You’re a genius!
(Jennifer shrugs nonchalantly.)
KELLER: Well, you know, trying to save a life and what-not.

THANK YOU!

Because apparantly when I posted it, it didn't exist.

Falcon Horus
April 18th, 2008, 07:42 AM
And why give up on this thread? We're all sharing points of view. Differing points of view, but I like to think we can still do so civilly.

And yet, I can't help but notice in your posts you get all worked up about people not liking Keller. :rolleyes:

Pandora's_Box
April 18th, 2008, 07:54 AM
And yet, I can't help but notice in your posts you get all worked up about people not liking Keller. :rolleyes:

I get worked up about people using baseless accusations to explain their dislike. People can like or not like whomever they wish to and that's their business, but I will point out innacuracies if I see them.
I'm not attacking anyone personally but rather trying to use what we've seen in the show - scenes and dialogue - to back up my points.

Reiko
April 18th, 2008, 08:16 AM
You didn't see "Trio" did you? First scene before the credits rolled: "Oh, I'm so out of shape. *puff-puff* I'm so short of breath. Why did we walk? Why couldn't we take a jumper?" (as Rodney and Carter look at her with the expression, "WTF???") Worst of all was the snide remark about Zelenka being a perv. That was the point where I realized I would never like this character.

.: I heard about that, and if they are trying to make Radek look bad for us to actually like her it's definately not working. Radek is a beloved character for the past four years. I have never, not once seen anybody complain about Zelenka. If you want to be the first, go ahead. Not that I'll listen.


KELLER: See those?
McKAY: What are they?

.: See? There's an example of 'out-of-character'. It makes Rodney look like a complete idiot, and yes, Keller a genius. Rodney would know they were nanites. A more accurate conversation would be Rodney bringing up the nanites, followed by Keller questioning "What?"


I get worked up about people using baseless accusations to explain their dislike.

.: Oh, our accusations are pretty based.

Falcon Horus
April 18th, 2008, 08:20 AM
I see that, but it sounds like you're trying to pursue them that Keller isn't all that bad, while they are obviously convinced the character is useless.

I don't care what they do with Keller, my main issue is that Jewel was a miscast of gigantic proportions and that the chief of medicine should have some maturity, which Keller lacks in all ways possible.

If you're as insecure as she is (the Doppelganger-dream showing that fact and in First Strike she isn't convinced she's the one for the job) than I fear the writers made a big mistake with that character. As a leader, at the time Elizabeth, I would never have put her in charge... yet TPTB's channeling themselves through Weir thought it was a brilliant idea... and now they/we face the consequences of that choice.

Briangate78
April 18th, 2008, 08:20 AM
Lol!

jenks
April 18th, 2008, 08:34 AM
.: See? There's an example of 'out-of-character'. It makes Rodney look like a complete idiot, and yes, Keller a genius. Rodney would know they were nanites. A more accurate conversation would be Rodney bringing up the nanites, followed by Keller questioning "What?"

Watch the scene again, all she showed him was a a laptop with a human body on it covered in dots, and it's not like he took any time to think about it either he just asked her straight away.

Pandora's_Box
April 18th, 2008, 12:36 PM
.: See? There's an example of 'out-of-character'. It makes Rodney look like a complete idiot, and yes, Keller a genius. Rodney would know they were nanites. A more accurate conversation would be Rodney bringing up the nanites, followed by Keller questioning "What?"

I don't think it makes Rodney look like an idiot. After all, all she showed him was a scan of a human body covered in a multitude of dots. He, being preoccupied with saving the whole city and hundreds of people simply asked her for an explanation as the easy way of doing things.

And why would her playing oblivious be more accurate? She is a doctor. She is trained to recognize these things and to think up inventive ways to save people lives.

.: Oh, our accusations are pretty based.[/COLOR][/QUOTE]

Sure. If they're based on your opinions and your perceptions of certain character's actions as being right or wrong then of course they are. Who am I to persuade you otherwise?
But what's not based in fact are the blatant falsities that some people are quoting as fact about the character regarding things she's done or said. Why shouldn't I point out the truth?


I see that, but it sounds like you're trying to pursue them that Keller isn't all that bad, while they are obviously convinced the character is useless.

I thought this was a debate forum about the character, wherein one person states their opinion or states what they percieve and then facilitates the use of examples to prove their point. I'm merely stating my point of view and backing it up with my reasoning.

Obviously my point of view seems to be at odds with the majority of people's on this thread, but doesn't negate my right to share my own. Or to argue with their's.

I'm not trying to persuade anyone of anything. But like I've said before, some people are using examples from the show that never happened and I felt the need to point those out.



I don't care what they do with Keller, my main issue is that Jewel was a miscast of gigantic proportions and that the chief of medicine should have some maturity, which Keller lacks in all ways possible.

If you're as insecure as she is (the Doppelganger-dream showing that fact and in First Strike she isn't convinced she's the one for the job) than I fear the writers made a big mistake with that character. As a leader, at the time Elizabeth, I would never have put her in charge... yet TPTB's channeling themselves through Weir thought it was a brilliant idea... and now they/we face the consequences of that choice.

And its you're right to think so.

With regards to "First Strike", yes she said she didn't think she was qualified. Maybe that's what she truly thought, maybe she was just insecure about the burden of repsonsibility. I'm willing to bet that a lot of people are insecure when starting a new job, epecially one that constitutes as much responsibility as hers does. The real test of character, IMO, is whether they let those insecurities effect their performance, in this case, as a doctor. And I honestly don't think that was the case with Keller.

As for "Doppelganger", that whole episode was about showcasing the fears of the SGA characters. One could argue that Heightmayer was suicidal (as she was shown on a ledge), does that make her appropriate as a psychologist then? One could also argue that since Sheppard's greatest fear seemed to be himself, then it would seem that he was in fact the most insecure of the lot of them. Should he be head military officer then?

Everyone's afraid of something and insecure at one point in their lives or another. I don't think this makes the majority of people unfit for their jobs, however.

Falcon Horus
April 18th, 2008, 12:48 PM
I thought this was a debate forum about the character, wherein one person states their opinion or states what they percieve and then facilitates the use of examples to prove their point. I'm merely stating my point of view and backing it up with my reasoning.

Yes, but personally I have the feeling you are feeling annoyed maybe... I don't know, I'm just getting a vibe... ignore me... I sometimes read too much into what people write and try to see behind their words. :)

You're doing just fine.


Obviously my point of view seems to be at odds with the majority of people's on this thread, but doesn't negate my right to share my own. Or to argue with their's.

Most of us have been in some sort of situation like this... Or still are.


But like I've said before, some people are using examples from the show that never happened and I felt the need to point those out.

All I've seen are examples, we all interpret them differently... I have to admit to giving credit to Keller for pointing the way of the nanites. But she ain't perfect like McKay (who even blew up 5/6th of a solar system in style).


The real test of character, IMO, is whether they let those insecurities effect their performance, in this case, as a doctor. And I honestly don't think that was the case with Keller.

In my opinion it did... on several occasions actually... If you're dreaming about it (and my guess is that the DG-dreams were fears) than you are not dealing with it the right way. Just my opinion, of course.


One could argue that Heightmayer was suicidal (as she was shown on a ledge), does that make her appropriate as a psychologist then?

Actually that's the first time someone brought up that possible reason... However if we go by the logic that the dreams were fears than I don't see the possibility of a suicidal one... Fearing suicide, don't say it's impossible, it's just weird.

Also it's Heightmeyer with an E instead of an A. :p


Everyone's afraid of something and insecure at one point in their lives or another. I don't think this makes the majority of people unfit for their jobs, however.

Not unfit, but one needs to deal with it. That's all.

Pandora's_Box
April 18th, 2008, 01:17 PM
Yes, but personally I have the feeling you are feeling annoyed maybe... I don't know, I'm just getting a vibe... ignore me... I sometimes read too much into what people write and try to see behind their words. :)

Andto an extent, you're probably right. I do tend to get annoyed when people use made up 'facts', or make statements that are blatantly false in their arguments.
If I offended anyone, that wasn't my intention, so I am sorry for the offense.



All I've seen are examples, we all interpret them differently... I have to admit to giving credit to Keller for pointing the way of the nanites. But she ain't perfect like McKay (who even blew up 5/6th of a solar system in style).

That, IMO, is one the biggest problems though. Lots of people are willing to count McKay as 'perfect' (I'm assuming you just meant that in joke, but some people don't) or are accepting of other characters' flaws, if not willing to overlook them entirely, but when it comes to those same character traits being exhibited in Keller, she's rendered an evil, insecure, selfish whore.



In my opinion it did... on several occasions actually... If you're dreaming about it (and my guess is that the DG-dreams were fears) than you are not dealing with it the right way. Just my opinion, of course.

And I would tend to agree. I would also argue that the majority of SGA characters have issues they are not dealing with if 'Doppelganger' is any indication and yet there's no uproar over that.

And also, her dream wasn't so much about being insecure, more about a fear of reptiles crawling out of people's bodies.

I can't say I blame her.



Actually that's the first time someone brought up that possible reason... However if we go by the logic that the dreams were fears than I don't see the possibility of a suicidal one... Fearing suicide, don't say it's impossible, it's just weird.

Also it's Heightmeyer with an E instead of an A. :p

Not unfit, but one needs to deal with it. That's all.

Granted, but it seems that Sheppard is the most insecure out of all them then. Does anyone hate him for that as much as they seem to hate Keller for her insecurities? Every character has insecurities. Hell, Carson whined plenty about having to use the chair, going off-world, and the military. But we loved, or at least liked, him regardless.

Falcon Horus
April 18th, 2008, 01:36 PM
And to an extent, you're probably right. I do tend to get annoyed when people use made up 'facts', or make statements that are blatantly false in their arguments.

I think we all get annoyed in one way or another... Maybe cause you feel like you've got an entire army going against you. *shrug* It's how I would feel. :)


If I offended anyone, that wasn't my intention, so I am sorry for the offense.

Nope, not me... I very much enjoy the conversation. :D


That, IMO, is one the biggest problems though. Lots of people are willing to count McKay as 'perfect' (I'm assuming you just meant that in joke, but some people don't) or are accepting of other characters' flaws, if not willing to overlook them entirely, but when it comes to those same character traits being exhibited in Keller, she's rendered an evil, insecure, selfish whore.

I think one's mind is also clouded when one is talking about their favorite character. And yes, very much joking about McKay... Sarcasm ftw! :p

Well, I see her as insecure... and not fit for the job as chief of medicine, but I think, like I said before, my biggest issue is the age-thing.


I would also argue that the majority of SGA characters have issues they are not dealing with if 'Doppelganger' is any indication and yet there's no uproar over that.

Well, they killed their psychologist, instead of dealing with it. I would rather have had an episode about them dealing with their fears and insecurities, and how they try to work it out, than to have them dream about in the way they did in DG.

Talking helps, you know. :p


And also, her dream wasn't so much about being insecure, more about a fear of reptiles crawling out of people's bodies.

Mmm... I guess... there was inspiration... Though I'm quite sure under normal circumstances that student would have been kicked out of medschool like wow, real fast.


Granted, but it seems that Sheppard is the most insecure out of all them then. Does anyone hate him for that as much as they seem to hate Keller for her insecurities? Every character has insecurities. Hell, Carson whined plenty about having to use the chair, going off-world, and the military. But we loved, or at least liked, him regardless.

I think it's a case of favorite character/liked character clouding the mind. :o Love, they say, is blind.

Reiko
April 18th, 2008, 01:56 PM
Sure. If they're based on your opinions and your perceptions of certain character's actions as being right or wrong then of course they are.

.: As are yours.


But what's not based in fact are the blatant falsities that some people are quoting as fact about the character regarding things she's done or said. Why shouldn't I point out the truth?

But like I've said before, some people are using examples from the show that never happened and I felt the need to point those out.

.: The truth in whose perception? "Things that never happened" being allegedly stated in this thread is also a complete matter of one's viewpoint.


Everyone's afraid of something and insecure at one point in their lives or another. I don't think this makes the majority of people unfit for their jobs, however.

.: I agree with that. :) But, the problem with Keller expands beyond those insecurities. :S

Pandora's_Box
April 18th, 2008, 01:59 PM
I think one's mind is also clouded when one is talking about their favorite character. And yes, very much joking about McKay... Sarcasm ftw! :p

I think it's a case of favorite character/liked character clouding the mind. :o Love, they say, is blind.

See, I do understand that being the case, but intellectually I just can't seem to accept that sort of reasoning. Especially when people are trying to discuss something. Where's the discussion if we all just stated our opinions as facts with no proof to back those facts up?



Well, I see her as insecure... and not fit for the job as chief of medicine, but I think, like I said before, my biggest issue is the age-thing.

But T.V is rife with characters that are much to young for their positions. And she's supposed to be close to 30, anyway. SO taking in consideration that she finished her B.A at 18, then assuming that her "genius" allowed her to finish med school and her residencies faster, it's not all that unbelieavable.

I'm also not a big fan of "genius" characters finishing school way early and being the best in their fields. It tends to reek of "Mary Sue", and while I don't think TPTB handled the Keller character very well, I don't see her as a "Mary Sue" and I certainly don't dislike her.

I think we've seen enough of her fears, insecurities, and limitations (as we have of all the characters) to not label anyone on the show a Mary Sue.




Well, they killed their psychologist, instead of dealing with it. I would rather have had an episode about them dealing with their fears and insecurities, and how they try to work it out, than to have them dream about in the way they did in DG.

Talking helps, you know. :p

LOL! No kidding. Talk about avoidance.

Pandora's_Box
April 18th, 2008, 02:04 PM
[COLOR="DarkOrchid"].: As are yours.

That was my point. That opinions can't be refuted or proved right or wrong. They just are.



.: The truth in whose perception? "Things that never happened" being allegedly stated in this thread is also a complete matter of one's viewpoint.

Not when people are saying that she wasn't the one to come up with the Nanite plan to save Weir, when she very clearly did.

Not when people are saying that she hasn't saved a single life on Atlantis when she most certainly has.

Those are irrefutable facts that have nothing whatsoever to do with perception or opinion.

Those are things that have happened, that are canon, and that some people are completely disregarding.

Those claims are what I was arguing against.

Falcon Horus
April 18th, 2008, 02:10 PM
Where's the discussion if we all just stated our opinions as facts with no proof to back those facts up?

Ah, didn't you know....I'm always right. Everything I say is the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth... :p

Sorry, couldn't resist.

I see your point though.


But T.V is rife with characters that are much to young for their positions.

With which I unfortunately have issues... :p No matter who or what we're discussing.


And she's supposed to be close to 30, anyway. SO taking in consideration that she finished her B.A at 18, then assuming that her "genius" allowed her to finish med school and her residencies faster, it's not all that unbelieavable.

Mmmm... the thing is ... where did she gather her experience? Being a genius is all well and good, but what about the necessary experience to be in a job of chief. It's not just about being a doctor, it's about being an administrator doing paperwork too... come to think of it, did we see Carson ever do that kind of work?


I think we've seen enough of her fears, insecurities, and limitations (as we have of all the characters) to not label anyone on the show a Mary Sue.

McKay is rather close though. TPTB's do tend to channel their inner geek through him... Why else does he get so much attention? :mckay:


LOL! No kidding. Talk about avoidance.

LOL!!

Pandora's_Box
April 18th, 2008, 02:19 PM
I see your point though.

:: does happy dance ::



With which I unfortunately have issues... :p No matter who or what we're discussing.

Oh me too. But there comes a time where one has to suspend desbelief otherwise one would get no enjoyment out of any show that's on TV.



Mmmm... the thing is ... where did she gather her experience? Being a genius is all well and good, but what about the necessary experience to be in a job of chief. It's not just about being a doctor, it's about being an administrator doing paperwork too... come to think of it, did we see Carson ever do that kind of work?

:: gasp :: Have our heroes do something as mundane as paperwork?! Travesty!! You and your crazy ideas.

On a serious note....I don't know...I see your point of course, but I'm going to choose not to hold the writer's blatant disregard for realism against the character.

I realize that the question then becomes, how much do you blame on the writers and don't hold against the character, and how much do you actually apply to the character herself? That becomes murky territory, especially when the character has been so inconsistently written as Keller has. This is my logic though, the history that the writers have established (aka stuff we don't see on screen) I'm not going to apply to her character simply because they've written so many different accounts of her childhood as to render their credibility void. Everything I see her do, act, say, etc... I apply to her characterization. Saying that, I have to admit that I don't, obviously, dislike her.



McKay is rather close though. TPTB's do tend to channel their inner geek through him... Why else does he get so much attention? :mckay:

Every show has one. And don't get me started on the "Sheppard and McKay Hour" that many episodes have digressed into. Gah!

Blencathra
April 18th, 2008, 02:24 PM
I don't want to get into this argument because the thread is called S5 for ronon or mckay NOT we all hate Keller. But this caught my interest.

Quote:

Well, I see her as insecure... and not fit for the job as chief of medicine, but I think, like I said before, my biggest issue is the age-thing.


But T.V is rife with characters that are much to young for their positions. And she's supposed to be close to 30, anyway. SO taking in consideration that she finished her B.A at 18, then assuming that her "genius" allowed her to finish med school and her residencies faster, it's not all that unbelieavable.

I work in a hospital. A couple of years ago we had a female Registrar pass her FRCS (Fellow of the Royal College of Surgeons) examination at a record breaking young age. I can't remember how old she was now but she LOOKED to be about 16. She was a tiny little thing too. Most of the elderly patients couldn't believe she was their surgeon.

So this happens in real life too.

Falcon Horus
April 18th, 2008, 02:28 PM
Oh me too. But there comes a time where one has to suspend desbelief otherwise one would get no enjoyment out of any show that's on TV.

True...


:: gasp :: Have our heroes do something as mundane as paperwork?! Travesty!! You and your crazy ideas.

Actually, I don't think it's as much actual paperwork as typing on a computer... Haven't seen all that much paper around Atlantis. :p

Me and my crazy ideas are insane, but we have so much fun. :p


On a serious note....I don't know...I see your point of course, but I'm going to choose not to hold the writer's blatant disregard for realism against the character.

I realize that the question then becomes, how much do you blame on the writers and don't hold against the character, and how much do you actually apply to the character herself? That becomes murky territory, especially when the character has been so inconsistently written as Keller has. This is my logic though, the history that the writers have established (aka stuff we don't see on screen) I'm not going to apply to her character simply because they've written so many different accounts of her childhood as to render their credibility void. Everything I see her do, act, say, etc... I apply to her characterization. Saying that, I have to admit that I don't, obviously, dislike her.

Mmm...there's a good point to consider.


Every show has one. And don't get me started on the "Sheppard and McKay Hour" that many episodes have digressed into. Gah!

I completely agree. Though it's 42 minutes, not an hour. :p

Pandora's_Box
April 18th, 2008, 02:35 PM
I work in a hospital. A couple of years ago we had a female Registrar pass her FRCS (Fellow of the Royal College of Surgeons) examination at a record breaking young age. I can't remember how old she was now but she LOOKED to be about 16. She was a tiny little thing too. Most of the elderly patients couldn't believe she was their surgeon.

So this happens in real life too.

Agree completely. Which is also why I don't find it nearly so troublesome. There's even a guy in my Ancient Civ class that's finishing up his Masters and he's only 19. Of course it's possible.



I completely agree. Though it's 42 minutes, not an hour. :p

Semantics. Pfft.

Falcon Horus
April 18th, 2008, 02:52 PM
I work in a hospital. A couple of years ago we had a female Registrar pass her FRCS (Fellow of the Royal College of Surgeons) examination at a record breaking young age. I can't remember how old she was now but she LOOKED to be about 16. She was a tiny little thing too. Most of the elderly patients couldn't believe she was their surgeon.

So this happens in real life too.


Agree completely. Which is also why I don't find it nearly so troublesome.

Realistically... Who would you say would you trust more with your health? Keller or Carson?

Personally, I'd say Carson.

As someone who spend some time at a hospital where students and residents ran around, trailing their professors... I can assure I prefer someone with a boatload of experience (too bad if they make a mistake) than someone fresh from school or still a little green behind the ears. But that's just me... :p


Semantics. Pfft.

:teyla25:

Pandora's_Box
April 18th, 2008, 02:59 PM
Realistically... Who would you say would you trust more with your health? Keller or Carson?

Ooooohhh....that's not a fair question as we were treated to 3 years of Carson and only 1 of Keller so far.

And what has Keller done exactly that has ever depicted her as a bad doctor? Sure she's admitted to being at a loss but as I've said before, she's often come up with ingenius ideas to overcome those hurdles.

Yes, Carson obviously has had more experience as he's obviously older, but that doesn't necessarily make him the better doctor.

Personally, I wouldn't mind either.



As someone who spend some time at a hospital where students and residents ran around, trailing their professors... I can assure I prefer someone with a boatload of experience (too bad if they make a mistake) than someone fresh from school or still a little green behind the ears. But that's just me... :p

But she's not fresh out of school or green behind the ears. She commands her staff with proffessionalism and confidence and we haven't seen her make grevious errors in judgment, so that's not really fair to compare her to fresh-out-of-med school residents.

GateLadyM
April 18th, 2008, 03:04 PM
And what has Keller done exactly that has ever depicted her as a bad doctor?

Well, all her patients do seem to die. ;)

Honestly, a pretty, young, genius, with insecurity issues, possibly virginal, needs a good man to make her whole, um, it just feels like she belongs on a show like "90210" or "The OC" instead of an adventure scifi show.

Just my opinion.

Falcon Horus
April 18th, 2008, 03:10 PM
And what has Keller done exactly that has ever depicted her as a bad doctor?

I'm not suggesting she's a bad doctor... Only counting experience...


Yes, Carson obviously has had more experience as he's obviously older, but that doesn't necessarily make him the better doctor.

True.

Pandora's_Box
April 18th, 2008, 03:14 PM
Well, all her patients do seem to die. ;)

And Carson helped create a serum that wiped out half a population.

They are doctors. Sometimes doctors have patients that DIE. It comes with the territory.

And to say that all her patients die is just plain wrong.

:: sigh :: Weir :: sigh ::
She also found the similarities between the Kirsan Fever bacterium and the one ravaging Atlantis in 'Tabula Rasa' thus saving all their lives.



Honestly, a pretty, young, genius, with insecurity issues, possibly virginal...

Virginal?! Seriously? Where do you get that impression?



...needs a good man to make her whole, um, it just feels like she belongs on a show like "90210" or "The OC" instead of an adventure scifi show.

Just my opinion.

And you're entitled to it, but when was it ever claimed she needed a man to make her feel whole? Just because she enjoys male company and flirts? That's reaching.

GateLadyM
April 18th, 2008, 03:24 PM
And to say that all her patients die is just plain wrong.

I said "they all seem to die" and I feel that way. The gal can't even do CPR right!

Anyway, there IS a hate Keller Anti-Keller thread already, and this has turned into another one. I don't like her for many reasons and I don't want to see Rodney or Ronon drooling around her at all. She irritates me enough as it is.

Blencathra
April 18th, 2008, 03:28 PM
I said "they all seem to die" and I feel that way. The gal can't even do CPR right!

And you know this how????


Anyway, there IS a hate Keller Anti-Keller thread already, and this has turned into another one. I don't like her for many reasons and I don't want to see Rodney or Ronon drooling around her at all. She irritates me enough as it is.

Agreed. Can we leave the hate for the other thread please. This is getting seriously off topic.

Shall we start doing the thread this way?

Keller for Ronon(1)
Keller for Rodney (0)

Reiko
April 18th, 2008, 03:29 PM
Honestly, a pretty, young, genius, with insecurity issues, possibly virginal, needs a good man to make her whole, um, it just feels like she belongs on a show like "90210" or "The OC" instead of an adventure scifi show.

.: :eek: Don't even mention the OC! I never want to hear of that show again :P It was just teen whinings in a sunny bourgeoisie setting, slathered over with bad "emo" ... ;)

.: I also misread "virginal" as something else ... but I shall leave that to your speculation.

.: Though I, too, wonder where did you get "virginal" from? Keller is anything BUT virginal :P

Falcon Horus
April 18th, 2008, 03:30 PM
You should have a "neither" and a "don't care" in your options.

Pandora's_Box
April 18th, 2008, 03:31 PM
I said "they all seem to die" and I feel that way. The gal can't even do CPR right!

No one on TV does CPR right. It's hardly 'her' and more the lax specialists SGA employs.



Anyway, there IS a hate Keller Anti-Keller thread already, and this has turned into another one.

It's more of a discussion thread, IMO.



I don't like her for many reasons and I don't want to see Rodney or Ronon drooling around her at all. She irritates me enough as it is.

I hate the very prospect of drool as well. Too messy. And I dislike the idea of ships making their way onto SGA. I just don't think that's what the show is about.
However, I wouldn't consider it unrealistic if a couple of characters gave in to their more basic instincts and got together off camera. Namely, Keller and McKay. But that's just me. Evidently.

Pandora's_Box
April 18th, 2008, 03:33 PM
And you know this how????



Agreed. Can we leave the hate for the other thread please. This is getting seriously off topic.

Shall we start doing the thread this way?

Keller for Ronon(1)
Keller for Rodney (0)

Keller for Ronon(1)
Keller for Rodney(1)
Neither(0) (Just for you Falcon)
Don't Care(0)

Personally I don't mind they way this thread has headed. I much prefer it to your traditional Anti or Pro threads where all opinions are one-sided and no discussion or rebuttals are allowed.

It's refreshing.

Reiko
April 18th, 2008, 03:33 PM
.: Then here you go :P plus my votes

Neither (1)
Don't Care (1) I feel apathy for SGA lately...
Rodney for Ronon FTW. Leave Keller out in the cold (1) even though I am not a slasher, what the hell...
Keller for Ronon (1)
Keller for Rodney (0)
OT3, baby! (0)

Falcon Horus
April 18th, 2008, 03:41 PM
Keller for Ronon(1)
Keller for Rodney(1)
Neither(0) (Just for you Falcon)
Don't Care(0)

Thanks... I shall fill it out now too.

Keller for Ronon(1)
Keller for Rodney(1)
Neither(1)
Don't Care(0)


Personally I don't mind they way this thread has headed. I much prefer it to your traditional Anti or Pro threads where all opinions are one-sided and no discussion or rebuttals are allowed.

Don't know about the positive thread, but the anti's discuss... we sorta think along the same line but we do occasionally butt heads.


It's refreshing.

Well, there's that... :)

KindlyKeller
April 18th, 2008, 03:44 PM
.: :eek: Don't even mention the OC! I never want to hear of that show again :P It was just teen whinings in a sunny bourgeoisie setting, slathered over with bad "emo" ... ;)

.: I also misread "virginal" as something else ... but I shall leave that to your speculation.

.: Though I, too, wonder where did you get "virginal" from? Keller is anything BUT virginal :P

This, AGAIN?

Come on, people. Can we at least cover new ground with the insults?

KindlyKeller
April 18th, 2008, 03:47 PM
I'll just say that while I strongly disagree with the assertions that she is incompetent or whiney or too insecure to carry out her duties, there's at least some vague starting point for such discussions.

The CONSTANT assertions that she's a "whore" because of -- let's say it again because people seem to have trouble with this -- one NEAR-kiss (she didn't even ACTUALLY DO IT!) and one relationship... I mean, WOW.

aquagirl
April 18th, 2008, 03:48 PM
Keller for Ronon(2)
Keller for Rodney(1)
Neither(1)
Don't Care(0)

KindlyKeller
April 18th, 2008, 03:48 PM
And as long as we're doing this...

Keller for Ronon(2)
Keller for Rodney(2)
Neither(1)
Don't Care(0)

Reiko
April 18th, 2008, 03:51 PM
.: No one likes my polling sheet? :P

.: And it was not meant to be an insult ... I was an interpretive observation.

Falcon Horus
April 18th, 2008, 03:52 PM
Raise your hand when you like Keller... and then try to put yourself in the shoes of the one's that don't.

Or envision a character you don't like and think about what you would write about them, when in discussion with someone who does like the character.

^^ Tries to get the two sides to see the other side of the fence.

KindlyKeller
April 18th, 2008, 03:55 PM
I do, my dear Falcon Horus.

I didn't like Weir. I also don't go around trying to bring it up whenever possible, and I don't call her a whore because she had one relationship and kissed another guy in "Sunday." I don't say it because it would be unfair to the character and not true, and because I know a lot of people are die-hard Weir fans.

Krissie678
April 18th, 2008, 03:59 PM
Keller for Ronon(3)
Keller for Rodney(2)
Neither(1)
Don't Care(0)

Falcon Horus
April 18th, 2008, 04:02 PM
I do, my dear Falcon Horus.

I'm happy. I hope the other side can see it too.

Cause I don't like to see another thread go to hell, not after I just had such a great conversation with Pandora's Box.

Reiko
April 18th, 2008, 04:07 PM
.: Adding mine ;)

Keller for Ronon (3)
Keller for Rodney (2)
Neither (2)
Don't Care (1) I feel apathy for SGA lately...
Rodney for Ronon FTW. Leave Keller out in the cold (1) even though I am not a slasher, what the hell...
OT3, baby! (0)

KindlyKeller
April 18th, 2008, 04:12 PM
I'm happy. I hope the other side can see it too.

Cause I don't like to see another thread go to hell, not after I just had such a great conversation with Pandora's Box.

Absolutely. See, I'll get frustrated in a conversation with someone like you, but it's just in that "how can you not agree with me?!" vain that comes out of a debate about ANYTHING. I disagree with you 95% of the time, but you're a good poster. You must be for me to green someone who despises Keller!

The stuff about her being too young, not a good doctor, too whiney... I disagree, but it's perfectly reasonable discourse.

"She's a harlot?" Not so much.

Pandora's_Box
April 18th, 2008, 04:16 PM
Raise your hand when you like Keller... and then try to put yourself in the shoes of the one's that don't.

Or envision a character you don't like and think about what you would write about them, when in discussion with someone who does like the character.

^^ Tries to get the two sides to see the other side of the fence.


I do, my dear Falcon Horus.

I didn't like Weir. I also don't go around trying to bring it up whenever possible, and I don't call her a whore because she had one relationship and kissed another guy in "Sunday." I don't say it because it would be unfair to the character and not true, and because I know a lot of people are die-hard Weir fans.

I hear you.


I'm happy. I hope the other side can see it too.

Cause I don't like to see another thread go to hell, not after I just had such a great conversation with Pandora's Box.

Right back at you Falcon.

I was referring to Anti and Pro threads in general when I made my comment. I have seen too many an Anti-thread resort to name-calling (against the character) and wishes of unfortunate incidents befalling the character, and too many Pro-threads resort to smiley-faced gushing, to not be wary of which ones I enter.

I realize they're not all like that, but I remain apprehensive. That said, I enjoy the opportunity for discussion on this thread. As frustrating as it can get some times, I have to admit I enjoy that part too. The challenge of supporting your arguments or supplying logical reasoning for a statement.
That to me is fun. Yes, I'm crazy.

As for the whore allegations....I'm interested to know if that only applies to Keller's character or if that goes for Ronon too. Or Sheppard for that matter, cause we know he hasn't been celibate. And Teyla? Cause she most definitely had sex. Weir? Because of what KK mentioned. Rodney's kissed a girl....and a man....if you want to get technical. He's the biggest whore of all then.

Let's not bandy about that kind of terminology or those allegations folks, cause we know it isn't true for any of the characters.

Jennifer and Rodney RULZ!!!

Hee!

PG15
April 18th, 2008, 04:22 PM
I do, my dear Falcon Horus.

I didn't like Weir. I also don't go around trying to bring it up whenever possible, and I don't call her a whore because she had one relationship and kissed another guy in "Sunday." I don't say it because it would be unfair to the character and not true, and because I know a lot of people are die-hard Weir fans.

You...you actually care about not offending others? That's virtually unheard of!

Amazing. I gotta write this down. ;)

Seriously though, I can't put myself in others' shoes simply because I've never found a character that I've despised to the degree I've seen around here from certain Keller-haters. I can't bring myself to that level of dislike, I really can't.

Not for TV character, anyway.

Falcon Horus
April 18th, 2008, 04:25 PM
Seriously though, I can't put myself in others' shoes simply because I've never found a character that I've despised to the degree I've seen around here from certain Keller-haters. I can't bring myself to that level of dislike, I really can't.

Not for TV character, anyway.

Not even disliked Kavanagh? :p Only a little maybe?

jelgate
April 18th, 2008, 04:31 PM
Not even disliked Kavanagh? :p Only a little maybe?

That more of a love to hate character. I'm with PG15. I can see why many posters hate Keller but I dont understand it.

PG15
April 18th, 2008, 04:33 PM
Like I say, not on the levels I've seen around here, no. ;)

As for Kavanagh...well, I recognize him as the "jerk character" so no, I don't dislike him, since that's the way he is.

Falcon Horus
April 18th, 2008, 04:37 PM
Well, Kavanagh is the character you love to hate, but he's gone up a few beats in my book after accidently blowing up midway... mucho huggles for the fainting man.

I don't think I hate a character either, dislike Atlantis-Carter and Woolsey...majorly disliking, nope...not even Keller.

Shipperahoy
April 18th, 2008, 05:19 PM
While negative comments about Keller are not exactly not allowed in here please try to keep said comments in line with the topic at hand. If you are just wanting to express your dislike for Keller there is already a thread for that. This thread is for discussing/voting for who, if anybody, you'd like to see Keller in a relationship with.

Rac80
April 18th, 2008, 05:51 PM
Keller for Ronon (4)
Keller for Rodney (2)
Neither (2)
Don't Care (1)

Luna
April 18th, 2008, 06:51 PM
Keller for Ronon (4)
Keller for Rodney (3)
Neither (2)
Don't Care (1)

Reiko
April 18th, 2008, 06:59 PM
.: Sorry Shipperahoy - I really feel the need to post this :o

.: @ KK and Pandora: I am sorry if I have unintentionally have insulted, offended, or otherwise showed disrespect towards you regarding my feelings towards this character. I'm sorry if anything of ill-feeling has come to you as the result of my posts being unclear. :o

.: As for the whole "harlot" thing, sometimes I like to spin things a bit and blow things out of proportion at my own expense. :o I guess I shouldn't have posted such things that are out of my usual "zone" where people understand that I am merely just being amusing.

Killdeer
April 18th, 2008, 07:02 PM
My vote would be Rodney or neither, but absolutely NOT with Ronon. And only with Rodney if it doesn't get sappy. That's what killed the Ronon/Keller thing (for me).

I have an extremely low sap tolerance level. SO not a chick flick girl.

ToasterOnFire
April 18th, 2008, 07:05 PM
Seriously though, I can't put myself in others' shoes simply because I've never found a character that I've despised to the degree I've seen around here from certain Keller-haters. I can't bring myself to that level of dislike, I really can't.

Not for TV character, anyway.
On the opposite side of the fence, I can't put myself into the shoes of those who get so upset over attacks on a TV character and those who attack others when defending said TV characters. Because...they're TV characters. To each their own I suppose, but I've never understood the excessive emotional response some have toward the show and its characters, whether it's negative or positive.

Keller for Ronon (4)
Keller for Rodney (2)
Neither (3)
Don't Care (1)

Pandora's_Box
April 18th, 2008, 07:19 PM
.: Sorry Shipperahoy - I really feel the need to post this :o

.: @ KK and Pandora: I am sorry if I have unintentionally have insulted, offended, or otherwise showed disrespect towards you regarding my feelings towards this character. I'm sorry if anything of ill-feeling has come to you as the result of my posts being unclear. :o

Speaking for myself, don't worry about it. Everyone is bound to have differing opinions and I would like to think that we're all adult enough to appreciate those of others while still disagreeing with them. That's the fun part about debating. I'm sure while we may get frustrated that some just refuse to see things exactly they way we do, it's all in good fun and about fictional characters. I never felt personally attacked anyway.

Discussing the things we like and and dislike about the characters and plot points afterwards is half the fun of watching SGA in the first place, IMO.

I know that I tend to get a little riled up when I feel strongly about something and some may misconstrue my fervor for insult or offense. If that's the case, then I apologize to those I've offended as well. Never my intent.

And I apologize ahead of time for doing it again. 'Cause strong opinions and I seem to go hand-in-hand. :D



.: As for the whole "harlot" thing, sometimes I like to spin things a bit and blow things out of proportion at my own expense. :o I guess I shouldn't have posted such things that are out of my usual "zone" where people understand that I am merely just being amusing.

I realize that some people just bandy those sort of words about like they're nothing, but they aren't nothing. Most of them have some truly negative connotations and meaning and rarely apply to these characters. Actually, I don't think they've ever applied.
Granted you're free to use whatever words you like, but I tend to think accuracy is best when discussing an established character/show/whatever.
Again, just IMHO.


My vote would be Rodney or neither, but absolutely NOT with Ronon. And only with Rodney if it doesn't get sappy. That's what killed the Ronon/Keller thing (for me).

I have an extremely low sap tolerance level. SO not a chick flick girl.

I am so with you on that one. Sap and SGA just do not work for me. Come to think of it, romance and SGA just don't work for me. And TPTB don't exactly have the best track run when it comes to Rodney and romance. 'Quarantine' anyone? If that's how TPTB handle it, I want to part of it for McKeller.

KindlyKeller
April 19th, 2008, 12:41 AM
If I'm going to be totally honest, I was offended specifically by the persistent harlot/whore references, just because I'm very sensitive to that type of insult personally. It's as hurtful a thing as can be uttered to or about a woman.

Now, that's not a guilt trip I'm trying to put anyone on, just me telling you where I'm coming from. Don't worry about it, Reiko, as I know that you obviously never intended to offend anyone on here by it. It would be ridiculous of me to hold a grudge about something like that.

Like I said before, while I disagree and occasionally get riled up about it, everything else is fair game on Keller for those who don't like her.

I hope that we can all have a bright future of voracious disagreement, eye-rolling, and personally non-offensive statements from both sides of the Keller coin.

ykickamoocow
April 19th, 2008, 01:13 AM
Calling Keller a Harlet (or worse) is stupid as Sheppard is alot worse. He flirts with every woman women on the series and is far worse than Keller.

maxbo
April 19th, 2008, 02:07 AM
Keller for Ronon (4)
Keller for Rodney (2)
Neither (4)
Don't Care (1)

Although the Ronon and Keller scenes in Quarantine were particularly cringeworthy, Keller and Rodney didn't work for me either. Both attempts were prime examples of why TPTB should not try to write ship - they are not good at it.

Unfortunately, TPTB seem to believe that ship is easy to write so I expect to see more badly written ship shoehorned into SGA episodes in the future.:S

elliecat
April 19th, 2008, 07:27 AM
Keller for Ronon (4)
Keller for Rodney (2)
Neither (5)
Don't Care (1)

Can't stand the thought of either ship personally!

jenks
April 19th, 2008, 07:53 AM
Keller for? Back to school everyones gone I see...

bluealien
April 19th, 2008, 08:53 AM
Calling Keller a Harlet (or worse) is stupid as Sheppard is alot worse. He flirts with every woman women on the series and is far worse than Keller.


Neither are harlets or whores or any of the derogatory comments made about both characters. They interact with the opposite sex and are charming. Asking someone to have a drink with you or being nice to the opposite sex doesn't make anyone a harlett or a whore.


Ronon/Keller (5)
Rodney/Keller (2)
Neither (5)
Don't care (1)