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Pegasus_SGA
April 12th, 2008, 02:15 AM
I know i'm normally one to go with the flow with, and that season 5 hasn't completely been written yet, but am I the only one concerned with no specific focus for Sheppard?

I'm a bit off kilter at the moment, so it maybe just me, but from reading the spoilers, there doesn't seem to be a set Shep episode and very little information in the way of team eps. I suppose the reason why i've set up this thread is to gauge the reactions of people on the forum. I've not gone so far as taking a poll, or creating a focus group. Maybe later though. ;)

So what are people's initial feelings, reactions fears about Shep and the team in S5. Positive and negatives are as always welcomed.

Do YOU feel that there is an imbalance with the spoilers received so far, or do you think that there is currently a good mixture based on the spoilers out there at the moment?

The floor as they say is yours. :D

Fenrir Foxz
April 12th, 2008, 02:17 AM
I thought there was going to be an ep in the second half of S5 which will be a major Shep whump episode?

Pegasus_SGA
April 12th, 2008, 02:21 AM
I thought there was going to be an ep in the second half of S5 which will be a major Shep whump episode?
The last we heard was that it was still trying to find a home. It got moved because of a creative snafu, and they were going to try and find it a place in the back half. Then there was news elements of it may be transplanted into other eps. So it's still not clear if it will go ahead or not.

Thing is if it does take place, not every Shep fan is a whumper! :eek: I know it's hard to believe that not everyone enjoys whumping Shep, but alas it's true. :P We've got eps for Ronon, Teyla, Rodney... even Daniel, and possibly Woolsey, but no Shep. :( And so far the only thing i've heard about team eps is the Daedy Variations.

My concerns aren't just for Shep, although that plays a part, it's the feel that there's a lot of new characters being brought into the mix to change some of the dynamics of the team. But for me there's not much of the team as a collective. That's part of what concerns me.

Linzi
April 12th, 2008, 02:25 AM
I know i'm normally one to go with the flow with, and that season 5 hasn't completely been written yet, but am I the only one concerned with no specific focus for Sheppard?

I'm a bit off kilter at the moment, so it maybe just me, but from reading the spoilers, there doesn't seem to be a set Shep episode and very little information in the way of team eps. I suppose the reason why i've set up this thread is to gauge the reactions of people on the forum. I've not gone so far as taking a poll, or creating a focus group. Maybe later though. ;)

So what are people's initial feelings, reactions fears about Shep and the team in S5. Positive and negatives are as always welcomed.

Do YOU feel that there is an imbalance with the spoilers received so far, or do you think that there is currently a good mixture based on the spoilers out there at the moment?

The floor as they say is yours. :D
I think there does seem to be an imbalance as far as spoilers go, yes. I can't see any reason why there's not a Shep centred episode in the first half of season 5, to be honest. At least if I knew there was going to be something meaty for Shep I wouldn't find myself being concerned so much. Alas spoilers seem to concern other characters at the moment, which is quite understandably causing upset and concern in certain sections of the fandom. Especially when that section has hitherto been pretty optimistic and supportive of the show and its changes to date. :)


I love team episodes, and they generally are my favourites. I missed the team feel in season 4, despite the fact that we were told season 4 would be centring on the team of four. It never really did. I realise there were reasons for this because of personal and private events happening to some of the actors, and that's perfectly understandable and outside of the control of the producers and actors.

But I was hoping to see season 5 show us a lot more team stuff. So far we know that Daedalus Variations in a team eppie for sure. Which is good. But I don't like the way the team keeps getting split up for episodes. Part of what I like about the show is the team all interacting together. Sure, it's fine to have scenes where the characters are split up, but episodes where they are? I'm not so sure it's something I want to continue seeing. I saw it too much in season 4 for my liking.

I don't know why there seem to be no spoilers for Sheppard, and why JM is saying nothing. I can't fathom it, to be honest. :confused: Maybe there's a secret game plan I'm not aware of, or maybe Sheppard is no longer considered a vital part to the show? Who knows. :(

Fenrir Foxz
April 12th, 2008, 02:31 AM
The last we heard was that it was still trying to find a home. It got moved because of a creative snafu, and they were going to try and find it a place in the back half. Then there was news elements of it may be transplanted into other eps. So it's still not clear if it will go ahead or not.

I expect it will, and I would think there will be an ep in S5 that deals with Sheppard as the main character in the story... ;)


Thing is if it does take place, not every Shep fan is a whumper! :eek: I know it's hard to believe that not everyone enjoys whumping Shep, but alas it's true. :P

It's not that hard to believe but then the way I see it not everyone is in it for the whump :P


My concerns aren't just for Shep, although that plays a part, it's the feel that there's a lot of new characters being brought into the mix to change some of the dynamics of the team. But for me there's not much of the team as a collective. That's part of what concerns me.

There is this from JM regarding 'team':

Watched the director’s cut of Daedalus Variations this afternoon. Andy Mikita did a terrific job on this one. Wow! Talk about a visual effects extravaganza! For those of you who enjoy “team” episodes in particular, this is one to look forward to.
http://josephmallozzi.wordpress.com/2008/04/11/april-11-2008-production-update/
I know it's not much to go on but it's a start :)

Pegasus_SGA
April 12th, 2008, 02:43 AM
I think there does seem to be an imbalance as far as spoilers go, yes. I can't see any reason why there's not a Shep centred episode in the first half of season 5, to be honest. At least if I knew there was going to be something meaty for Shep I wouldn't find myself being concerned so much. Alas spoilers seem to concern other characters at the moment, which is quite understandably causing upset and concern in certain sections of the fandom. Especially when that section has hitherto been pretty optimistic and supportive of the show and its changes to date. :)

I'm very much a spoiler whore to get me through the hiatus, but this year there does seem to be more of a focus on other characters within the spoilers as opposed to the team and to Shep. I don't understand it, and have no idea what a creative snafu is, maybe Mr M will enlighten us, so that I don't feel so shrill and ill-informed and won't go off half cocked screaming blue bloody murder. ;) But, for me why is there this much focus on supporting characters within the spoilers? Is it that to give away stuff about the team would result in major spoilers. But if that's the case, why no mention of the team.

Concerns are there, lying under the surface, and keeping things in perspective yes all eps have not been written yet, but why no mention?



I love team episodes, and they generally are my favourites. I missed the team feel in season 4, despite the fact that we were told season 4 would be centring on the team of four. It never really did. I realise there were reasons for this because of personal and private events happening to some of the actors, and that's perfectly understandable and outside of the control of the producers and actors.

Ditto, there were understandable reasons in Season 4 why the team weren't all together. I appreciate that, and it must have been difficult sotry wise to keep them all together, but i've not heard anything so far that suggests any complications. Yep I know i'm not in the loop and never will be, but so far there's only really been one team ep that I can see.



But I was hoping to see season 5 show us a lot more team stuff. So far we know that Daedalus Variations in a team eppie for sure. Which is good. But I don't like the way the team keeps getting split up for episodes. Part of what I like about the show is the team all interacting together. Sure, it's fine to have scenes where the characters are split up, but episodes where they are? I'm not so sure it's something I want to continue seeing. I saw it too much in season 4 for my liking.



Agreed, the team for me will always be focus. I know people only watch for certain characters. I get that, but the core of SGA is the team, switch the pairings and dialogue up great, but have them together. Let the banter flow between all of them. If they're all seperated than for me it loses a certain something.



I don't know why there seem to be no spoilers for Sheppard, and why JM is saying nothing. I can't fathom it, to be honest. :confused: Maybe there's a secret game plan I'm not aware of, or maybe Sheppard is no longer considered a vital part to the show? Who knows. :(

Maybe we'll be bowled over.... still clinging to that last thread. :lol: But I have to say if Mr M had not posted those couple of pics on his blog, I would seriously start to wonder if Shep is actually in S5!! :eek:


I expect it will, and I would think there will be an ep in S5 that deals with Sheppard as the main character in the story... ;)

In the words on OB1 Kenobe.... one can only hope. But at this moment in time, my hope along with my squee is fading fast. :(




It's not that hard to believe but then the way I see it not everyone is in it for the whump :P

That's my point though, for the Shep fans on the forum, are they nervous about the lack of spoilers or episode. What are their feelings?




There is this from JM regarding 'team':

I know it's not much to go on but it's a start :)

I saw that this morning, maybe he's fed up with listening to me moaning about no teamyness. :P

chensuu
April 12th, 2008, 03:16 AM
My concerns aren't just for Shep, although that plays a part, it's the feel that there's a lot of new characters being brought into the mix to change some of the dynamics of the team. But for me there's not much of the team as a collective. That's part of what concerns me.

Sadly my first thought when all the cast changes were announced months ago was exactly the same thing. Too many characters, not enough concentration on the ones we care about and not enough development time to go around.

Maybe there will be a Sheppard centered episode in the second half of the season but I'm selfish and I don't want to wait that long and since he's the lead I don't know why we have to! Not when other characters like Ronon , Keller and Rodney already have too focused episodes in the first half. And we already know that Daniel Jackson is coming on for the big season two parter.

In my opinion, any Keller focused episode = no team. Episodes that feature Keller fragment the team into pieces. This is not to say that as a full time cast member she doesn't deserve a character centric episode but honestly we're hearing more about her than even Teyla. I don't remember Carson Beckett every commanding so much attention when he was the doctor.

And what about Zelenka and Lorne?

And to be honest the most annoying aspect of it to me is JM's refusal to make any comment at all to the polite requests asking for a bit more Sheppard information. However,when I made a comment about Tracker and the supposed mckay/keller/ronon love match he responded right away!

Just my opinion. :)

Linzi
April 12th, 2008, 03:21 AM
I'm very much a spoiler whore to get me through the hiatus, but this year there does seem to be more of a focus on other characters within the spoilers as opposed to the team and to Shep. I don't understand it, and have no idea what a creative snafu is, maybe Mr M will enlighten us, so that I don't feel so shrill and ill-informed and won't go off half cocked screaming blue bloody murder. ;) But, for me why is there this much focus on supporting characters within the spoilers? Is it that to give away stuff about the team would result in major spoilers. But if that's the case, why no mention of the team.

Concerns are there, lying under the surface, and keeping things in perspective yes all eps have not been written yet, but why no mention?

Oh hell, I'm feeling shrill and ill-informed and uninformed too! Always thought of myself as more of a gerbil than a lemming though! :lol:

I have no idea why Shep isn't being talked about. It's pretty disheartening even for someone like me who's pretty optimisitic usually. I seriously am not getting any more upset and I'm just staying away from this all. If Shep doesn't feature much and I don't like the show without him, if he isn't in it so much, then I walk away to a new show. I'd never stick around the fandom to just whine. Not my style. I like fun! :)





Ditto, there were understandable reasons in Season 4 why the team weren't all together. I appreciate that, and it must have been difficult sotry wise to keep them all together, but i've not heard anything so far that suggests any complications. Yep I know i'm not in the loop and never will be, but so far there's only really been one team ep that I can see.

I'm not in the loop either hon. So that makes two of us.






Agreed, the team for me will always be focus. I know people only watch for certain characters. I get that, but the core of SGA is the team, switch the pairings and dialogue up great, but have them together. Let the banter flow between all of them. If they're all seperated than for me it loses a certain something.

I love the team. We were promised in season 4 that it'd be all about the team of four, and I'm not sure it was really. Certainly not them all together.

I agree. Separate the characters for too long and some of the sparkle can be lost.






Maybe we'll be bowled over.... still clinging to that last thread. :lol: But I have to say if Mr M had not posted those couple of pics on his blog, I would seriously start to wonder if Shep is actually in S5!! :eek:



I know. And did we actually hear from JM that Shep is in Whispers, or is that just from spoilers here or at SG1 Solutions? I do wonder about Shep in season 5. I do wonder what thrills are in store for him. Where's his wonderful eppie where we learn more about him and JF gets the chance to give his best performance yet? Where is his 'Tour de force' eppie? Oh, he doesn't get one...there's a surprise.


In the words on OB1 Kenobe.... one can only hope. But at this moment in time, my hope along with my squee is fading fast. :(



Save me, Sheppy, you're my only hope! ;)






That's my point though, for the Shep fans on the forum, are they nervous about the lack of spoilers or episode. What are their feelings?




I saw that this morning, maybe he's fed up with listening to me moaning about no teamyness. :P


Well this one is annoyed, frustrated and upset. I have no idea what the season 5 episodes will be like. I can only go on spoilers. From either JM or from spoiler sites. So far I've had NOTHING on Sheppard from anywhere, except that he gets to be in Beckett's episode. Oh joy...

Fenrir Foxz
April 12th, 2008, 03:25 AM
Perhaps JM is deliberately keeping Shep related spoilers from you because it amuses him to be asked? :P

elliecat
April 12th, 2008, 03:27 AM
I think they are so excited about their 'shiny new toy' Keller that other characters get left by the wayside. I fear this is happening to Shep who is getting nothing in way of soilers coz they are not excited about him anymore maybe?

Wheras they have made a nice little love triangle so Ronon and Rodney can interact with Keller and bam! she is part of the inner circle. She does seem to split up the team whenever she's in it tho. Look at last year it was her and Teyla (missing) her and Ronon (quarantine) her and mckay (trio). And these eps were my least fav of last year.

Back to Shep, im sure he will be in SGA lots next year I have to believe this else I will not be very interested im afraid. That's my honest opinion, he interacts so well with all the team and I love him and McKay together especially. And there are so many Shep fans out there they need to start giving em something!

More Shep info please Mr M!

Elinor
April 12th, 2008, 04:36 AM
I think they are so excited about their 'shiny new toy' Keller that other characters get left by the wayside. I fear this is happening to Shep who is getting nothing in way of soilers coz they are not excited about him anymore maybe?

Wheras they have made a nice little love triangle so Ronon and Rodney can interact with Keller and bam! she is part of the inner circle. She does seem to split up the team whenever she's in it tho. Look at last year it was her and Teyla (missing) her and Ronon (quarantine) her and mckay (trio). And these eps were my least fav of last year.

Back to Shep, im sure he will be in SGA lots next year I have to believe this else I will not be very interested im afraid. That's my honest opinion, he interacts so well with all the team and I love him and McKay together especially.

I'm the same. I'm usually Little Miss Cheery, but even I'm starting to get the wobbles a bit now! I just find it very strange that we're regularly finding out bits and pieces about all the other characters but, apart from a couple of pics and a word here and there, nothing about Shep! What's that all about?!! http://www.clicksmilies.com/s1106/fragend/confused-smiley-016.gif


And there are so many Shep fans out there they need to start giving em something!

More Shep info please Mr M!

I think you're right elliecat...even if it's just to say 'We can't tell you anything 'cos it's waaaaayyyy too spoilery'!

:)

CazzBlade
April 12th, 2008, 04:51 AM
Save me, Sheppy, you're my only hope! ;)


:lol:

Anyway...

Yep, there's a severe lack of info on Shep! But not just him Teyla too :( and to me they are now the leading man and lady

I wasn't worried at all until yesterday and something just snapped! I was being nice and patient and thinking Shep info wil be along soon but it never came and my patience has dried up (and I am a very patient and laid back person!)

Keller grew on me last season but I'm still not sure she is worthy of a regular :S

I'm not feeling as bad about things today as I was yesterday but other than S&R and BT to an extent, there is nothing to be exited about at the mo :(

:sheppard:;)

Killdeer
April 12th, 2008, 04:59 AM
Yep, there's a severe lack of info on Shep! But not just him Teyla too :(

I don't know if I agree - The Queen is a Teyla-centered episode, and very possibly so is the Seed, since JM said that the first two episodes would have some major developments for the character. But we've gotten nothing on Sheppard except for Whispers, and I'm still betting that he wasn't even in the original script, thus the promotion and then subsequent demotion of Major Teldy. Whispers was always billed as Carson offworld with a female team - nothing about Sheppard until recently.

pilgrim soul
April 12th, 2008, 05:20 AM
But, for me why is there this much focus on supporting characters within the spoilers? Is it that to give away stuff about the team would result in major spoilers. But if that's the case, why no mention of the team.


In fairness most of the detailed spoilers we have come from casting sides so they only really show the episode from the point of view of character being cast and can make it seem like those characters play a bigger role than they actually do. I'm thinking specifically about Vega here.

I do understand the frustration and disappointment and I too would like to see more team eps and Shep related spoilers, and I am very disappointed there does not appear to be a Shep-centric ep in the first half of the season, I'm keeping the faith at this point and trusting that we will see more Shep and team interaction than is currently apparent.

jelgate
April 12th, 2008, 07:20 AM
In the previous seasons, foe the lack of a better word have been Sheppard orentied. S2 and S3 had very little for Teyla and Ronon didn't do much. I think that is what they tried to fix in S4 but private matter among the actors prevented that from happening. I would actually perfer more episodes centered around Ronon and Teyla. Don't get me wrong, I like Sheppard but he has been overused in the past. Sometimes those little bits (Sheppard and Teyla in the mess hall in Satedia) are just as important as the an episode dedicated into them. I can understand a Sheppard fanatic :P like yourself wanting a lot of him but their are other characters who are need more episode because IMHO, have been underused in the past.

Fenrir Foxz
April 12th, 2008, 07:23 AM
*Reads what Jelgate just posted.... waits for the Whumpers to whump him* :P

Naonak
April 12th, 2008, 07:34 AM
So what are people's initial feelings, reactions fears about Shep and the team in S5. Positive and negatives are as always welcomed.

Do YOU feel that there is an imbalance with the spoilers received so far, or do you think that there is currently a good mixture based on the spoilers out there at the moment?
Yeah, I guess I can see where you're coming from, as a Shep fan.

Personally I'm more a fan of the show as a whole, rather than one or two of the characters being the main draw for me (not that that makes me a bigger/better/whatever fan or anything), but it does seem a little odd.

However, while there doesn't seem to be a Sheppard-centric ep so far, I don't think his presence will be diminished. I think Search and Rescue and Ghost in the Machine will be quite "team-y" eps (along with The Daedalus Variations), as will the two-parter. And while Broken Ties and The Shrine are Ronon and McKay episodes, John is probably the closest to both of them, so could be quite involved there, too. I don't really think we know enough about The Seed and The Queen to comment, yet (although I think BamBam has said Shep fans might like The Seed).

I would like a few more team episodes in the back half, though.

Pegasus_SGA
April 12th, 2008, 07:39 AM
Sadly my first thought when all the cast changes were announced months ago was exactly the same thing. Too many characters, not enough concentration on the ones we care about and not enough development time to go around.

Maybe there will be a Sheppard centered episode in the second half of the season but I'm selfish and I don't want to wait that long and since he's the lead I don't know why we have to! Not when other characters like Ronon , Keller and Rodney already have too focused episodes in the first half. And we already know that Daniel Jackson is coming on for the big season two parter.

In my opinion, any Keller focused episode = no team. Episodes that feature Keller fragment the team into pieces. This is not to say that as a full time cast member she doesn't deserve a character centric episode but honestly we're hearing more about her than even Teyla. I don't remember Carson Beckett every commanding so much attention when he was the doctor.

And what about Zelenka and Lorne?

And to be honest the most annoying aspect of it to me is JM's refusal to make any comment at all to the polite requests asking for a bit more Sheppard information. However,when I made a comment about Tracker and the supposed mckay/keller/ronon love match he responded right away!

Just my opinion. :)

:lol: I'm selfish and shalllow, but don't worry it's part of my charm. ;) In all honesty, i'm trying to cling on to the last beacon of hope from last year, that even when there's no Shep centric episode there will still be meaty stuff..... and that even when it is a character specific ep the others get some great stuff. But it's the whole no information that has me concerned. Wem know about McKay's/David's tour de force eppy and that he and Daniel/Michael have a lot to say in the two parter. We know about Teyla's eppy the Queen, and Rachel said she was really excited by it. Jewel said on of the eps made her cry, and now we know her character is involved in Tracker, and the Seed. We've got Ronon/Jason's eppy Broken Ties where he gets to be vulnerable. These are the core of the cast, but what about Shep/Joe? Becket has his eppies, Whispers being one of them.

Where has the fantastic four gone? :S they just seem to be split up and I miss my team. :(

I don't know why Mr M isn't saying anything, is it too spoilery? There's nothing for Shep in terms of character centric, or team eps (or not much) are they trying new dynamics out to see what works and what doesn't? I don't know, but it does worries me, and I don't do worried. *stomps feet*



Oh hell, I'm feeling shrill and ill-informed and uninformed too! Always thought of myself as more of a gerbil than a lemming though! :lol:

:lol:



I have no idea why Shep isn't being talked about. It's pretty disheartening even for someone like me who's pretty optimisitic usually. I seriously am not getting any more upset and I'm just staying away from this all. If Shep doesn't feature much and I don't like the show without him, if he isn't in it so much, then I walk away to a new show. I'd never stick around the fandom to just whine. Not my style. I like fun! :)


I'm not far from that point at the moment. :( As a whumper I was overjoyed with the pic, but as a Shep fan, I would like to know what lies ahead.



I'm not in the loop either hon. So that makes two of us.

I love the team. We were promised in season 4 that it'd be all about the team of four, and I'm not sure it was really. Certainly not them all together.

I agree. Separate the characters for too long and some of the sparkle can be lost.


I can understand though why things changed so much in season 4, and we didn't get that teamy feel. Maybe the writers enjoyed just writing for a couple of the characters? Or want to try different things again in season 5. I just hope it's not at the cost of losing what they've built up over the last few years.



I know. And did we actually hear from JM that Shep is in Whispers, or is that just from spoilers here or at SG1 Solutions? I do wonder about Shep in season 5. I do wonder what thrills are in store for him. Where's his wonderful eppie where we learn more about him and JF gets the chance to give his best performance yet? Where is his 'Tour de force' eppie? Oh, he doesn't get one...there's a surprise.

I don't know to be honest, I read it on the Stargate solutions site.



Save me, Sheppy, you're my only hope! ;)

*giggles* you wish. :P



Well this one is annoyed, frustrated and upset. I have no idea what the season 5 episodes will be like. I can only go on spoilers. From either JM or from spoiler sites. So far I've had NOTHING on Sheppard from anywhere, except that he gets to be in Beckett's episode. Oh joy...

Season 4 was a bit of a tubulent time in terms of character changes and I did hope it would stablise in S5 with more team eps, more banter and interaction with them all going off world together. A balance of episodes for everyone. The team can still be there even if the focus is on one specific character.


Perhaps JM is deliberately keeping Shep related spoilers from you because it amuses him to be asked? :P

He's a little tinker sometimes. ;) But I am persistant. :P I'll just keep brainwashing asking... ;)


I think they are so excited about their 'shiny new toy' Keller that other characters get left by the wayside. I fear this is happening to Shep who is getting nothing in way of soilers coz they are not excited about him anymore maybe?

Wheras they have made a nice little love triangle so Ronon and Rodney can interact with Keller and bam! she is part of the inner circle. She does seem to split up the team whenever she's in it tho. Look at last year it was her and Teyla (missing) her and Ronon (quarantine) her and mckay (trio). And these eps were my least fav of last year.

Back to Shep, im sure he will be in SGA lots next year I have to believe this else I will not be very interested im afraid. That's my honest opinion, he interacts so well with all the team and I love him and McKay together especially. And there are so many Shep fans out there they need to start giving em something!

More Shep info please Mr M!

With that said though, Harmony wasn't a fave of mine and that was Shep/Rodney. :eek: I think by that point I was seriously missing the team interaction, and it didn't work for me, neither did Trio, again because the team wasn't there. I don't know if they're putting Keller in to entice the audience, or she's got some good storylines that suit her character. But I like subtlety, gentle introductions, and sorry for me this isn't working.


I'm the same. I'm usually Little Miss Cheery, but even I'm starting to get the wobbles a bit now! I just find it very strange that we're regularly finding out bits and pieces about all the other characters but, apart from a couple of pics and a word here and there, nothing about Shep! What's that all about?!! http://www.clicksmilies.com/s1106/fragend/confused-smiley-016.gif



I think you're right elliecat...even if it's just to say 'We can't tell you anything 'cos it's waaaaayyyy too spoilery'!

:)

I could live with that. Shut up peggy and stop you're whinging, Shep will get his ep and there will be a tonne of teamy stuff in season 5. It's not much, but I can live with little things like that. Thing is if I was spoiler free, just your normal average viewer, I really wouldn't be this worked up, i'd just roll with the punches. Ahhhh the joys of fandom life. :P


I don't know if I agree - The Queen is a Teyla-centered episode, and very possibly so is the Seed, since JM said that the first two episodes would have some major developments for the character. But we've gotten nothing on Sheppard except for Whispers, and I'm still betting that he wasn't even in the original script, thus the promotion and then subsequent demotion of Major Teldy. Whispers was always billed as Carson offworld with a female team - nothing about Sheppard until recently.

And not forgetting what happened at the end of TLM will she give birth in the first or second ep? That's also a big part of her storyline to.

I wondered that initially, but then read the sides so thought maybe I was imagining it. I can't remember the timing to be honest from what JM said to what was put on the solutions site.


In fairness most of the detailed spoilers we have come from casting sides so they only really show the episode from the point of view of character being cast and can make it seem like those characters play a bigger role than they actually do. I'm thinking specifically about Vega here.

I do understand the frustration and disappointment and I too would like to see more team eps and Shep related spoilers, and I am very disappointed there does not appear to be a Shep-centric ep in the first half of the season, I'm keeping the faith at this point and trusting that we will see more Shep and team interaction than is currently apparent.

I agree, but they normally give an outline though of who's in it, and a general overview, don't they?

I'm still clinging on at this point. I love SGA, but something doesn't 'feel' right. I don't know what it is or why I feel like this, it just seems that even when we do get spoilers that are not necessarily from the sides they don't include Shep, or talk of the team being together (save for the Daedy variations). So my question is why?

Briangate78
April 12th, 2008, 07:42 AM
Do not worry Sheppard fans. Sheppard will have his time next season. :p I am sure of it. :)

Fenrir Foxz
April 12th, 2008, 07:46 AM
Do not worry Sheppard fans. Sheppard will have his time next season. :p I am sure of it. :)

Indeed, exactly what I've been saying :) Hiatus blues by the looks of things :P

Naonak
April 12th, 2008, 07:48 AM
:lol: I'm selfish and shalllow, but don't worry it's part of my charm. ;)
Your what? :p

I agree, but they normally give an outline though of who's in it, and a general overview, don't they?
I'm not an expert in the area, but I think casting sides normally just have the "set-up" - maybe the first third/half of the episode... I could be wrong though...

jelgate
April 12th, 2008, 07:49 AM
Your what? :p

I'm not an expert in the area, but I think casting sides normally just have the "set-up" - maybe the first third/half of the episode... I could be wrong though...

If Peg has charm than I'm real Sheppard

Fenrir Foxz
April 12th, 2008, 07:53 AM
If Peg has charm than I'm real Sheppard

Cool... can I have a puddle jumper? :P

Killdeer
April 12th, 2008, 07:54 AM
Indeed, exactly what I've been saying :) Hiatus blues by the looks of things :P

It's possible. Last year there was so much publicity surrounding Amanda coming over that maybe it felt we got more spoilers than we actually did. I don't know. But I'm with PegasusSGA - something just doesn't feel right. It kind of feels like before we found out Amanda was leaving to do Sanctuary. I know Joe's not leaving - but yet.....something still feels wrong. :S

Fenrir Foxz
April 12th, 2008, 07:57 AM
It's possible. Last year there was so much publicity surrounding Amanda coming over that maybe it felt we got more spoilers than we actually did. I don't know. But I'm with PegasusSGA - something just doesn't feel right. It kind of feels like before we found out Amanda was leaving to do Sanctuary. I know Joe's not leaving - but yet.....something still feels wrong. :S

Yeah I'm kinda feeling that but for now I'm putting it down to hiatus blues :)

While waiting for season 5 we're all jumping on what little spoilers handed out and can easily feel it's not enough, but I can see that there has been very little said on Shep in season 5 so far...

jelgate
April 12th, 2008, 07:58 AM
Cool... can I have a puddle jumper? :P

http://www.forumammo.com/cpg/albums/userpics/10071/picard-no-facepalm.jpg

Fenrir Foxz
April 12th, 2008, 08:01 AM
http://www.forumammo.com/cpg/albums/userpics/10071/picard-no-facepalm.jpg

:lol: I forgot the almighty Jelgate is lost when it comes to sarcasm :P

Briangate78
April 12th, 2008, 08:06 AM
It's possible. Last year there was so much publicity surrounding Amanda coming over that maybe it felt we got more spoilers than we actually did. I don't know. But I'm with PegasusSGA - something just doesn't feel right. It kind of feels like before we found out Amanda was leaving to do Sanctuary. I know Joe's not leaving - but yet.....something still feels wrong. :S

You make a good point, but Sheppard is teaming up with Carson in "Whispers". I also saw some nice spoiler pics for "Broken Ties" that included Sheppard a lot. Hey, people complain about the Sheppard and Mckay hour, myself I do not see it enough to be an issue. Maybe this will distant those two pairings for a bit.

pilgrim soul
April 12th, 2008, 08:13 AM
I agree, but they normally give an outline though of who's in it, and a general overview, don't they?


No they don't. Audition sides (or at least the ones I've seen) have a brief breakdown of the character that the audition is for and then a scene or two that the actor will read through for the audition. Nothing more than that. They don't send out a whole script just odd pages and that's where the spoilers come from but it by no means gives away the whole picture and those scenes taken out of context can often be deeply misleading.

Listy
April 12th, 2008, 10:04 AM
I too am a little concerned, although I am remaining optimistic. I am first and foremost a Shep fan and am very disappointed at the lack of info on Sheppard in spoilers so far. It has been confirmed that other characters have eps, but we haven't really heard much for the leading man and there seems to be a lack of team eps yet again.

I have to admit I have not really warmed to Keller, I keep waiting hoping to find that in an ep her character grows on me and starts to feel like she belongs, but I am still waiting and the thought of more eps with her around when it could have been a team ep makes me sad.

Don't get me wrong, I don't begrudge any of the characters a focused ep, all characters deserve development and focus, but for me Shep is the leading man and so should get at least one focused ep. I am still hopeful we will get one in the second half of the season and that maybe we might get a few more spoilers before July that will put our minds at ease.

I just think the lack of info is the main problem for me, I mean I don't even need it to be spoilerish, even a nod in the Shep fans direction to let us know everything is fine would be enough.

I love SGA but for me Sheppard is a big part of that, I need him to play a decent part in it, I mean it took four seasons for us to even get backstory, so for me it is important that he gets a good focused ep. I also love the team eps and it doesn't seem like there are many yet (I say yet as I am keeping things crossed for more promising news for the second half of the season)

I just hope we hear something postiive soon


I think there does seem to be an imbalance as far as spoilers go, yes. I can't see any reason why there's not a Shep centred episode in the first half of season 5, to be honest. At least if I knew there was going to be something meaty for Shep I wouldn't find myself being concerned so much. Alas spoilers seem to concern other characters at the moment, which is quite understandably causing upset and concern in certain sections of the fandom. Especially when that section has hitherto been pretty optimistic and supportive of the show and its changes to date. :)


I love team episodes, and they generally are my favourites. I missed the team feel in season 4, despite the fact that we were told season 4 would be centring on the team of four. It never really did. I realise there were reasons for this because of personal and private events happening to some of the actors, and that's perfectly understandable and outside of the control of the producers and actors.

But I was hoping to see season 5 show us a lot more team stuff. So far we know that Daedalus Variations in a team eppie for sure. Which is good. But I don't like the way the team keeps getting split up for episodes. Part of what I like about the show is the team all interacting together. Sure, it's fine to have scenes where the characters are split up, but episodes where they are? I'm not so sure it's something I want to continue seeing. I saw it too much in season 4 for my liking.

I don't know why there seem to be no spoilers for Sheppard, and why JM is saying nothing. I can't fathom it, to be honest. :confused: Maybe there's a secret game plan I'm not aware of, or maybe Sheppard is no longer considered a vital part to the show? Who knows. :(

well said :)

Linzi
April 12th, 2008, 10:29 AM
I too am a little concerned, although I am remaining optimistic. I am first and foremost a Shep fan and am very disappointed at the lack of info on Sheppard in spoilers so far. It has been confirmed that other characters have eps, but we haven't really heard much for the leading man and there seems to be a lack of team eps yet again.

I have to admit I have not really warmed to Keller, I keep waiting hoping to find that in an ep her character grows on me and starts to feel like she belongs, but I am still waiting and the thought of more eps with her around when it could have been a team ep makes me sad.

Don't get me wrong, I don't begrudge any of the characters a focused ep, all characters deserve development and focus, but for me Shep is the leading man and so should get at least one focused ep. I am still hopeful we will get one in the second half of the season and that maybe we might get a few more spoilers before July that will put our minds at ease.

I just think the lack of info is the main problem for me, I mean I don't even need it to be spoilerish, even a nod in the Shep fans direction to let us know everything is fine would be enough.

I love SGA but for me Sheppard is a big part of that, I need him to play a decent part in it, I mean it took four seasons for us to even get backstory, so for me it is important that he gets a good focused ep. I also love the team eps and it doesn't seem like there are many yet (I say yet as I am keeping things crossed for more promising news for the second half of the season)

I just hope we hear something postiive soon



well said :)
Well said to you!

I think you hit the nail on the head in your post. It's the fact that there's information about episodes and storylines for the other main characters and none for Sheppard. That's what I find particularly difficult to understand, and I actually find it quite hurtful too.

I mean how would TPTB feel if their favourite character on a show they loved appeared to them, from spoilers, not to have anything much going on for him in a new season of the show? Especially if said character wasn't a minor one, but the leading man, whose name appears first in the credits? Would they be worried, feel the writers etc weren't interested in the character, or certainly didn't care about the fans of the character? Because that's what it's looking like to me. That they just don't care about Shep fans. Otherwise why no reassurances, or tidbits? Oh, sorry, I forgot Shep has a couple of nice moments with Ronon in Ronon's dedicated episode, where Woolsey and Teyla have some great scenes....

If there was no information about any characters or their centric episodes then I would be ok with it all. It's the inequality I can't stand. One character seems to be being forgotten about deliberately, certainly in terms of spoilers from one of the executive producers, and I can't understand why. Is it a good old yanking of our chains? If it is...nice and not funny any more. If it's not, why nothing much for Sheppard? :confused:

I don't begrudge Ronon development at all. Jason deserves it. But I can't help but feel sad when I read that Jason has had the opportunity to delve more into Ronon and that he's had an opportunity to really get to grips with his character and will be giving us glimpses we haven't seen before. I don't feel Joe has ever been given that chance for Sheppard, not even in Outcast really, which I enjoyed immensely.

McKay always gets meaty episodes, some more than others, granted, but the fact that, yet again, he gets another tear jerker quite frankly grates. I loved Tao of Rodney, but that was a tear jerker. Why can't Sheppard get one of those types of episodes too? I'm not saying I don't want the other main characters to have their centric episodes, I do. But I want my favourite to get that opportunity too.

I always think of something Joe F said in season 2. He wanted a meaty episode like McKay gets, and Martin Gero said to him that he didn't basically know what Joe was complaining about, because Joe had lots of screen time. MG just didn't understand what Joe was saying. Poor Joe. That really sums it all up for me. Do none of the writers WANT to write for Sheppard? Are they all fighting over themselves to write for the other characters? I find it bizarre that there are so many excellent FF writers who write wonderful Sheppard stories, with him very much in character, and yet giving us just a little bit more of a glimpse of the man.

As for the apparent lack of team episodes? Well, that is disappointing too, as I said earlier. Having the odd one here and there and having the team split up just doesn't appeal to me any more. It just doesn't work as well if it goes on too long, I think.

There also in season 4 often weren't 'B' stories in many episodes. Sometimes I agree those do take away from the main plot. However, in quite a few episodes last season I craved them. I don't know if we're getting two stories simultaneously being told in episodes this year, but last year the fact that sometimes characters were missing or virtually missing from whole episodes made me unhappy and again made me feel wanting the team together or at least the characters mainly being in the stories.

Listy
April 12th, 2008, 10:50 AM
Well said to you!

I think you hit the nail on the head in your post. It's the fact that there's information about episodes and storylines for the other main characters and none for Sheppard. That's what I find particularly difficult to understand, and I actually find it quite hurtful too.

I mean how would TPTB feel if their favourite character on a show they loved appeared to them, from spoilers, not to have anything much going on for him in a new season of the show? Especially if said character wasn't a minor one, but the leading man, whose name appears first in the credits? Would they be worried, feel the writers etc weren't interested in the character, or certainly didn't care about the fans of the character? Because that's what it's looking like to me. That they just don't care about Shep fans. Otherwise why no reassurances, or tidbits? Oh, sorry, I forgot Shep has a couple of nice moments with Ronon in Ronon's dedicated episode, where Woolsey and Teyla have some great scenes....

If there was no information about any characters or their centric episodes then I would be ok with it all. It's the inequality I can't stand. One character seems to be being forgotten about deliberately, certainly in terms of spoilers from one of the executive producers, and I can't understand why. Is it a good old yanking of our chains? If it is...nice and not funny any more. If it's not, why nothing much for Sheppard? :confused:

I don't begrudge Ronon development at all. Jason deserves it. But I can't help but feel sad when I read that Jason has had the opportunity to delve more into Ronon and that he's had an opportunity to really get to grips with his character and will be giving us glimpses we haven't seen before. I don't feel Joe has ever been given that chance for Sheppard, not even in Outcast really, which I enjoyed immensely.

McKay always gets meaty episodes, some more than others, granted, but the fact that, yet again, he gets another tear jerker quite frankly grates. I loved Tao of Rodney, but that was a tear jerker. Why can't Sheppard get one of those types of episodes too? I'm not saying I don't want the other main characters to have their centric episodes, I do. But I want my favourite to get that opportunity too.

I always think of something Joe F said in season 2. He wanted a meaty episode like McKay gets, and Martin Gero said to him that he didn't basically know what Joe was complaining about, because Joe had lots of screen time. MG just didn't understand what Joe was saying. Poor Joe. That really sums it all up for me. Do none of the writers WANT to write for Sheppard? Are they all fighting over themselves to write for the other characters? I find it bizarre that there are so many excellent FF writers who write wonderful Sheppard stories, with him very much in character, and yet giving us just a little bit more of a glimpse of the man.

As for the apparent lack of team episodes? Well, that is disappointing too, as I said earlier. Having the odd one here and there and having the team split up just doesn't appeal to me any more. It just doesn't work as well if it goes on too long, I think.

There also in season 4 often weren't 'B' stories in many episodes. Sometimes I agree those do take away from the main plot. However, in quite a few episodes last season I craved them. I don't know if we're getting two stories simultaneously being told in episodes this year, but last year the fact that sometimes characters were missing or virtually missing from whole episodes made me unhappy and again made me feel wanting the team together or at least the characters mainly being in the stories.

Exactly, if there was no information for anyone then fair enough, but it does feel like we have been cheated as there is information out there, just not for Sheppard.

I find it really sad that the writers seem to not want to write for Sheppard and I agree totally, I think Joe Flanigan would do an amazing job with a really meaty ep, to me its not even about the amount of screen time, I would rather have one or two really good meaty eps than a whole season of average eps. I feel it very short sighted of MG to think its ok for the character if he gets lots of screen time, and that it doesn't matter if its not meaningful screen time. I think Sheppards character has so much potential, its just not explored enough IMHO.

A little more info from TPTB would be appreciated and make us a lot happier in the wait for season 5. I don't even think its the hiatus blues to be honest, I really think it is just a major lack of balance in the info released.

I don't begrudge any of the characters a meaty ep, but I agree, I think Sheppard should have a tear jerker ep. Other characters have had the opportunity to shine and I think Sheppard deserves the chance too.

As for FF writers, sometimes I find myself searching for ep tags, because I know that some of the FF writers do a much better job and can see what would have made an ep better.

I am trying to stay optimistic, it takes a lot to put me on a downer about an ep, but my levels of enthusiasm have taken a hit lately.

Sheppard's Delight
April 12th, 2008, 11:24 AM
I really was not going to read spoilers this year and this is why! :S In the past I have got myself so excited about a particular episode and then when I actually watch it, either it

a) is exactly as I expected ( so it is like watching something I have almost seen already) or
b) is a let down based on unrealistic expectations

so my initial reaction to the ep is not half as good as it would have been going in knowing nothing.

But this year it is the total reverse. Nothing much to get excited about and as a result I am not looking forward to s5 like I had hoped. Fingers crossed that this means that the reverse of what I said above will be true and when i actually watch the eps I will be expecting nothing and hopefully get some awesome Sheppy moments!

Deep down I am sure that there will be plenty and I am not getting too upset about it. I am going to wait and see.

Southern Red
April 12th, 2008, 11:25 AM
I've been waiting for Sheppard and consequently JF, to get a chance to shine since roughly the pilot. Oh, there were a few eps in S1 that established his character, but from the beginning of S2 on with very few exceptions he has been background on his own show. One has to wonder if they told him he was the star just to get him to sign on.

The writers obviously identify with McKay and write with that in mind. Sheppard's potential has never been realized. I thought that his ATA gene would play a big role in the whole exploration of Atlantis and thus his abilities and fish out of water situation would be the theme of the show. What happened to that? When did we see him use it last? I can't even remember. Then he became the super soldier and I thought, okay they're going with that. Interesting and intriguing. Nope, he became little more than a smart aleck who can shoot straight. And we won't even go into the intergalactic babe magnet persona.

JF has moments of absolute brilliance. Miller's Crossing comes to mind. Think what you will of what he did, you must admit he was effective from an acting standpoint. Outcast gave him a few good scenes, but they were all too few. The question is why aren't they writing stories that are actually about him? Not other characters stories that he has a part in.

I fear that we haven't heard much about him in S5 because he will once again be issuing orders, shouting "let's go", grabbing his gun and running into the fray without much discussion before or after.

Falcon Horus
April 12th, 2008, 11:38 AM
There's a team?!? *iz completely shocked* Really?!? http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y188/FalconHorus/Smiley/Other/huh.gif

Where? *looks around* http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y188/FalconHorus/Smiley/Other/idunno5rr.gif

I must have missed them... Missplaced them somewhere. http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y188/FalconHorus/Smiley/Other/smileys35.gif

*****

Looks like there hasn't been a real TEAM in ages, like in :ronan::teyla::sheppard::mckay: ... you know... THE team. Elizabeth, Carson, Zelenka, Lorne, Kate, Chuck, ... all also part of THE team but I have feeling they're not the ones we're talking about here.

Maybe JF is feeling the wrath of TPTB... *shrug*

Don't much care for Sheppard... well, I do in that odd pairing I love that no one else understands.

BUT anyway, you'll see McKay and Sheppard will still be front and center 3/4th of the time. Teyla and Ronon will walk in their shadows, stand in the back... roll their eyes, grunt a little, shoot something. Shep and McKay will save the day and all is well with the world.

Snark much... :p

Pegasus_SGA
April 12th, 2008, 12:30 PM
Indeed, exactly what I've been saying Hiatus blues by the looks of things

Yeah not liking it. :lol:


Your what? :p

I'm not an expert in the area, but I think casting sides normally just have the "set-up" - maybe the first third/half of the episode... I could be wrong though...

*bats her eyelashes* What? ;)

I agree I don't think they give away the full plot, but usually with these types of spoilers I expected even the basics on the team and the general set up.


If Peg has charm than I'm real Sheppard

Hush you in the cheap seats. ;)


It's possible. Last year there was so much publicity surrounding Amanda coming over that maybe it felt we got more spoilers than we actually did. I don't know. But I'm with PegasusSGA - something just doesn't feel right. It kind of feels like before we found out Amanda was leaving to do Sanctuary. I know Joe's not leaving - but yet.....something still feels wrong.

I was talking to someone about this, as i've got a memory of a goldfish and this time round we knew a lot more about the team exploits... oh that sounds dirty. :lol: And yep you're right hon, Amanda's arrival did stir up a lot of things. But there's definately something not settling right. My spideysense though admittedly has been crap lately. SO i'm going to rely on yours if that's okay hon.

There just feels 'less team' eps. Did JM post that thing about the team today because he knows we're worried or if that's just the first team ep?


Yeah I'm kinda feeling that but for now I'm putting it down to hiatus blues

While waiting for season 5 we're all jumping on what little spoilers handed out and can easily feel it's not enough, but I can see that there has been very little said on Shep in season 5 so far...

ahhh you feeling it to hon? Need a hug? *hugs Fen* I think as linz said later on in her big rambling post. ;) It feels unequal, I know it probably won't play out like that, it just feels like that at the moment.


You make a good point, but Sheppard is teaming up with Carson in "Whispers". I also saw some nice spoiler pics for "Broken Ties" that included Sheppard a lot. Hey, people complain about the Sheppard and Mckay hour, myself I do not see it enough to be an issue. Maybe this will distant those two pairings for a bit.

I know, but I honestly think that was an add on rather than an intention... yeah i'm getting cynical in my old age. :lol:

Broken ties looks as if it's going to be great, and while I love seeing different pairings, I do like to know that the team is there even if the focus is on a pairing.


No they don't. Audition sides (or at least the ones I've seen) have a brief breakdown of the character that the audition is for and then a scene or two that the actor will read through for the audition. Nothing more than that. They don't send out a whole script just odd pages and that's where the spoilers come from but it by no means gives away the whole picture and those scenes taken out of context can often be deeply misleading.

Thanks for that Josie, the ones i've seen have showed at least a background. I would assume that the characters involved and who they're interacting with would be mentioned though. So if the 'team' aren't mentioned wouldn't that suggest they're not in it?


I too am a little concerned, although I am remaining optimistic. I am first and foremost a Shep fan and am very disappointed at the lack of info on Sheppard in spoilers so far. It has been confirmed that other characters have eps, but we haven't really heard much for the leading man and there seems to be a lack of team eps yet again.

I have to admit I have not really warmed to Keller, I keep waiting hoping to find that in an ep her character grows on me and starts to feel like she belongs, but I am still waiting and the thought of more eps with her around when it could have been a team ep makes me sad.

Don't get me wrong, I don't begrudge any of the characters a focused ep, all characters deserve development and focus, but for me Shep is the leading man and so should get at least one focused ep. I am still hopeful we will get one in the second half of the season and that maybe we might get a few more spoilers before July that will put our minds at ease.

I just think the lack of info is the main problem for me, I mean I don't even need it to be spoilerish, even a nod in the Shep fans direction to let us know everything is fine would be enough.

I love SGA but for me Sheppard is a big part of that, I need him to play a decent part in it, I mean it took four seasons for us to even get backstory, so for me it is important that he gets a good focused ep. I also love the team eps and it doesn't seem like there are many yet (I say yet as I am keeping things crossed for more promising news for the second half of the season)

I just hope we hear something postiive soon



well said

Well said. I do like to see a balance of eps between the characters and the teams. So that no one is at a disadvantage. I'm hoping we'll hear something soon about the latter half of the season, because there is lots more to go and after my rant i'm feeling a bit better. Still concerned, still worried, but hopefull.... and a bit scared.... :o


Well said to you!

I think you hit the nail on the head in your post. It's the fact that there's information about episodes and storylines for the other main characters and none for Sheppard. That's what I find particularly difficult to understand, and I actually find it quite hurtful too.

If there was no information about any characters or their centric episodes then I would be ok with it all. It's the inequality I can't stand. One character seems to be being forgotten about deliberately, certainly in terms of spoilers from one of the executive producers, and I can't understand why. Is it a good old yanking of our chains? If it is...nice and not funny any more. If it's not, why nothing much for Sheppard?
<snipped for chattyness>

As for the apparent lack of team episodes? Well, that is disappointing too, as I said earlier. Having the odd one here and there and having the team split up just doesn't appeal to me any more. It just doesn't work as well if it goes on too long, I think.

There also in season 4 often weren't 'B' stories in many episodes. Sometimes I agree those do take away from the main plot. However, in quite a few episodes last season I craved them.

Absolutely it's the no information that's unsettling and we all know how well the fandom copes with that. :lol: Remember when all the changes were taking place and some got a bit nervous, it feels like that all over again, like something's about to be announced, but we don't quite know what it is.... I appreciate that each of the characters need their ep to shine and have the spotlight focused on them, but for me, even if it has been one of those eps, like ToR, CG, you've had the team there. Even if they're not physically there we see their reactions. And with some eps in S4 i've missed that. So i'm hoping that this time round we'll get to see the team interact more.


I really was not going to read spoilers this year and this is why! In the past I have got myself so excited about a particular episode and then when I actually watch it, either it

a) is exactly as I expected ( so it is like watching something I have almost seen already) or
b) is a let down based on unrealistic expectations

so my initial reaction to the ep is not half as good as it would have been going in knowing nothing.

But this year it is the total reverse. Nothing much to get excited about and as a result I am not looking forward to s5 like I had hoped. Fingers crossed that this means that the reverse of what I said above will be true and when i actually watch the eps I will be expecting nothing and hopefully get some awesome Sheppy moments!

Deep down I am sure that there will be plenty and I am not getting too upset about it. I am going to wait and see.

I think we are spoiled quite a bit, if we were sitting at home like the good demographics we are, we probably wouldn't even realise. But it's a long few months without stuff, and i'm just hoping that over the next few weeks/months when the promo's and pics come out. I'll look back and think, oh peggy you're such a muppet. :lol: But still waiting.


I've been waiting for Sheppard and consequently JF, to get a chance to shine since roughly the pilot. Oh, there were a few eps in S1 that established his character, but from the beginning of S2 on with very few exceptions he has been background on his own show. One has to wonder if they told him he was the star just to get him to sign on.

The writers obviously identify with McKay and write with that in mind. Sheppard's potential has never been realized. I thought that his ATA gene would play a big role in the whole exploration of Atlantis and thus his abilities and fish out of water situation would be the theme of the show. What happened to that? When did we see him use it last? I can't even remember. Then he became the super soldier and I thought, okay they're going with that. Interesting and intriguing. Nope, he became little more than a smart aleck who can shoot straight. And we won't even go into the intergalactic babe magnet persona.

JF has moments of absolute brilliance. Miller's Crossing comes to mind. Think what you will of what he did, you must admit he was effective from an acting standpoint. Outcast gave him a few good scenes, but they were all too few. The question is why aren't they writing stories that are actually about him? Not other characters stories that he has a part in.

I fear that we haven't heard much about him in S5 because he will once again be issuing orders, shouting "let's go", grabbing his gun and running into the fray without much discussion before or after.

I know, the writers seem to enjoy writing for McKay, but what they have to understand is that Joe is the lead, and as the lead he should be the easiest person to write for. Shep is a character they created, he is the leader, so why is it difficult to write for him. They had no problems writing for Jack. :lol:


There's a team?!? *iz completely shocked* Really?!?

Where? *looks around*

I must have missed them... Missplaced them somewhere.

*****

Looks like there hasn't been a real TEAM in ages, like in ... you know... THE team. Elizabeth, Carson, Zelenka, Lorne, Kate, Chuck, ... all also part of THE team but I have feeling they're not the ones we're talking about here.

Maybe JF is feeling the wrath of TPTB... *shrug*

Don't much care for Sheppard... well, I do in that odd pairing I love that no one else understands.

BUT anyway, you'll see McKay and Sheppard will still be front and center 3/4th of the time. Teyla and Ronon will walk in their shadows, stand in the back... roll their eyes, grunt a little, shoot something. Shep and McKay will save the day and all is well with the world.

Snark much... :p

I know you don't care much for Shep, and prefer other pairings. How do you feel about Teyla not interacting much with the team last season, and would you want that again for S5?

Falcon Horus
April 12th, 2008, 12:43 PM
I know you don't care much for Shep, and prefer other pairings.

I like Sheppard, but you know he's always there... always and always...


How do you feel about Teyla not interacting much with the team last season, and would you want that again for S5?

Gotten used to it... it's never going to happen, not expecting much in season 5 either. Too late anyway.

I prefer fanfic to the show. At least some authors know what the team is all about better than what TPTB understand of it.

Pegasus_SGA
April 12th, 2008, 12:59 PM
I like Sheppard, but you know he's always there... always and always...

You say that like it's a bad thing hon. ;)




Gotten used to it... it's never going to happen, not expecting much in season 5 either. Too late anyway.

I prefer fanfic to the show. At least some authors know what the team is all about better than what TPTB understand of it.

Do you think looking at the spoilers so far that it's evened out this year?

Southern Red
April 12th, 2008, 01:01 PM
I like Sheppard, but you know he's always there... always and always...



Gotten used to it... it's never going to happen, not expecting much in season 5 either. Too late anyway.

I prefer fanfic to the show. At least some authors know what the team is all about better than what TPTB understand of it.

And Teyla is always there also. She's standing in the background, running for the jumper, dragging McKay out of his stupor, arguing with John, having actual interaction with Ronon, whining about Kanaan and her people, imitating Counselor Troi, eating ground slugs and a myriad of other things. She may not always be the focus. But. She. Is. There.

John is also just there sometimes. Wallpapered just like Teyla, only with a few more lines. Which by the way, I think in S4 were remarkably repetitive. It may be favorite character prejudice, but I don't see why the Teyla fans are so upset. They never said she was the star. The star is supposed to be the big damn hero. WTF isn't he?????

Leaving now. It's time for wine. This whole thing has rubbed my last nerve.

Jumper_One
April 12th, 2008, 01:02 PM
You say that like it's a bad thing hon. ;)

:rolleyes: :P


Do you think looking at the spoilers so far that it's evened out this year?

there seem to be less Shep

Falcon Horus
April 12th, 2008, 01:07 PM
You say that like it's a bad thing hon. ;)

Mmm... on second reading, it sorta does... well, it isn't really, but it does get boring. It's not bad, it's just not super either.


Do you think looking at the spoilers so far that it's evened out this year?

Nope... otherwise you wouldn't have felt the need to start the thread, and I wouldn't have felt the need to post in it. I feel it's going to be like in 4, where everybody is doing his/her own thing without having everybody there at the same time. And with the addition of new characters, new shiny toys... I don't see that changing and since I wasn't hallucinating yesterday about JM stating he liked the healthy mix :S of team and solo-flights (sorta) from season 4, we'd be seeing more of the same in season 5. Which means... the scale will once again tip in favor of a few and leave the rest wondering in darkness (gats, I feel like the Seer).

Up until now, there's talk of two Teyla-heavy episodes... mmm yeah, Missing was going to be about Teyla and turned out to be more about Keller than Teyla really. So, no... I don't expect to see any team improvement in the coming season.

JF may be the leading man and first in the credits but it sure does not feel that way. I have to be honest in that... He's second fiddle to DH.

Falcon Horus
April 12th, 2008, 01:16 PM
And Teyla is always there also. She's standing in the background, running for the jumper, dragging McKay out of his stupor, arguing with John, having actual interaction with Ronon, whining about Kanaan and her people, imitating Counselor Troi, eating ground slugs and a myriad of other things. She may not always be the focus. But. She. Is. There.

*giggles* Sorry, this is just a funny rant... I can feel the frustration. There's frustration, right? Cause otherwise I'm probably misreading.

I can proof though, that Teyla isn't around as much as Sheppard. :p
And quality over quantity.... yes, but if there isn't much quantity you can't have much quality either.


It may be favorite character prejudice, but I don't see why the Teyla fans are so upset.

I think the problem with that is that she is supposed to be part of the team... I'm not sure what Rachel's status is supposed to be on the show. She wasn't leading lady, that was for sure in the last 4 seasons. Maybe she is in 5, I don't know how that works really...
Anyway, as I was saying... I think the Teyla-fans (of who I am one) are just frustrated to have such a wonderful character with so much awesome potential being completely wasted away, like other characters. They all suffer from it except McKay. I think the McKay-fans are the happiest in the fandom (could be mistaken of course). And the whole pregnancy-storyline in 4 didn't do her any good, au contraire it hurt the character some more in my opinion (I know people who liked it).

I don't know... just my 2 cent on the matter...


Leaving now. It's time for wine. This whole thing has rubbed my last nerve.

My whine is Illustrator... oh, I'm putting literally every bit of frustration and snark in my work at the moment.

Pegasus_SGA
April 12th, 2008, 01:36 PM
And Teyla is always there also. She's standing in the background, running for the jumper, dragging McKay out of his stupor, arguing with John, having actual interaction with Ronon, whining about Kanaan and her people, imitating Counselor Troi, eating ground slugs and a myriad of other things. She may not always be the focus. But. She. Is. There.

John is also just there sometimes. Wallpapered just like Teyla, only with a few more lines. Which by the way, I think in S4 were remarkably repetitive. It may be favorite character prejudice, but I don't see why the Teyla fans are so upset. They never said she was the star. The star is supposed to be the big damn hero. WTF isn't he?????

Leaving now. It's time for wine. This whole thing has rubbed my last nerve.

I think for me that is part of the problem, he is the leading man, and I suppose I kind of expected he'd be up first in the episode quota after the inital season opener. Maybe he will be, who knows, I just know at this point in time, there seems to be little information to suggest that he's actually in season 5. I mean I know he is, but the spoilers don't seem to suggest that, and the concentration at the moment (at least according to the sides) that focus is on new characters, be they guests or recurring. Which for me I just find a tad strange.

Sorry for depressing you hon... I seem to be doing that a lot lately. :(


:rolleyes: :P

You know you luff me, you can't deny it to yourself any longer. Trust me, you'll feel better after you admit it. ;)




there seem to be less Shep

In the words of Teal'c. :indeed: But why? I am like that 5 year old constantly asking why? :lol:


Mmm... on second reading, it sorta does... well, it isn't really, but it does get boring. It's not bad, it's just not super either.

That was a joke hon. :P Is my sense of humour of to as well as my spideysense? :eek:




Nope... otherwise you wouldn't have felt the need to start the thread, and I wouldn't have felt the need to post in it. I feel it's going to be like in 4, where everybody is doing his/her own thing without having everybody there at the same time. And with the addition of new characters, new shiny toys... I don't see that changing and since I wasn't hallucinating yesterday about JM stating he liked the healthy mix :S of team and solo-flights (sorta) from season 4, we'd be seeing more of the same in season 5. Which means... the scale will once again tip in favor of a few and leave the rest wondering in darkness (gats, I feel like the Seer).

:lol: I love a good mix, but I just get the feeling from what we've read that more time will be spent on new characters rather than concentrating on developing the team. I really felt as if the team in S4 was less evident, and i really hope it's not that sort of mix that he's referring to. As Linz said there didn't seem to be many 'B' storylines either. Sometimes at least on those points we get to see more teamyness.



Up until now, there's talk of two Teyla-heavy episodes... mmm yeah, Missing was going to be about Teyla and turned out to be more about Keller than Teyla really. So, no... I don't expect to see any team improvement in the coming season.

JF may be the leading man and first in the credits but it sure does not feel that way. I have to be honest in that... He's second fiddle to DH.

I enjoyed missing. :o I agree it does feel like David is the lead at times, and while I do love Rodney, I don't think he had a particularly great season last year. While for me Shep did. But things seemed a bit turned around last year, and due to circumstances there were certain things that were out of kilt. For me the team doesn't consist of a couple of characters, it's the four of them, not jsut shep and rodney, and while I do love them both, even I didn't enjoy those single eps like Harmony as much as i'd have loved to see the team involved in that.

Falcon Horus
April 12th, 2008, 01:45 PM
That was a joke hon. :P Is my sense of humour of to as well as my spideysense? :eek:

Doh! http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y188/FalconHorus/Smiley/Other/dohhead.gif Seems I should have a look where I left my spideysense... :p


I enjoyed missing. :o

The only episode I was looking forward to in season 5 (apart from DG after some bit of info got out) and it delivered just nicely. I wouldn't have minded though if Teyla had hit Keller over the head, knocked some sense in that pretty head but leaving her at the bridge was equally satisfying. And the part with the squid... mmm, brilliant.


...Harmony...

It's the only episode that made me laugh spontaneously... I swear I was in stitches when the painting was revealed. It gets a few points for that, but just for that.

Jumper_One
April 12th, 2008, 01:56 PM
You know you luff me, you can't deny it to yourself any longer. Trust me, you'll feel better after you admit it. ;)

ok...I admit it *sigh* wow I do feel better ;)


In the words of Teal'c. :indeed: But why? I am like that 5 year old constantly asking why? :lol:

IDK why don't we ask Joe :P

SpaceCowboy
April 12th, 2008, 02:33 PM
I think the problem with that is that she is supposed to be part of the team... I'm not sure what Rachel's status is supposed to be on the show. She wasn't leading lady, that was for sure in the last 4 seasons. Maybe she is in 5, I don't know how that works really...
Anyway, as I was saying... I think the Teyla-fans (of who I am one) are just frustrated to have such a wonderful character with so much awesome potential being completely wasted away, like other characters. They all suffer from it except McKay. I think the McKay-fans are the happiest in the fandom (could be mistaken of course). And the whole pregnancy-storyline in 4 didn't do her any good, au contraire it hurt the character some more in my opinion (I know people who liked it).


Not that it matters much, but I have always understood that opening credits meant a lot in terms of who was the "star" of the show. I imagine that billing has a lot to do with the status of the actor and what kind of contract they have with TPTB. From the start, JF was the lead-off man and RL was batting third, that's pretty good. For S4, AT replaced TH batting second billing. I wonder if RP is going to slide into that spot now, or if RL and JM will move up in the batting order. I imagine DH will always be the "And Starring..." at the end of the credits; batting clean up in a way (I know the analogy kind of falls apart at this point).

SGA draws its strength from its ensemble cast. Each of them brings strengths and weaknesses that make for good drama and character interaction. Each should have an opportunity to shine, but in the end, Sheppard is the glue that holds everything together. Even in those episodes where he is not the primary, he plays an important role. One example that just pops to mind is his brief appearance at the beginning of "Missing". It was important to the story that someone comment about Teyla's "hot date", and Sheppard was the best one for that job.

Let's face it, if it weren't for Sheppard, we wouldn't have the team at all. He personally selected Teyla, Ford and McKay, and then fought to have Ronon added when Ford was no longer there. He provides comic relief when necessary, just like O'Neill did in SG1, and he is able to drop the hammer when it is necessary.

Sheppard is the star of the show; and hopefully that will not change.

CazzBlade
April 12th, 2008, 02:38 PM
Well said to you!

I think you hit the nail on the head in your post. It's the fact that there's information about episodes and storylines for the other main characters and none for Sheppard. That's what I find particularly difficult to understand, and I actually find it quite hurtful too.

I mean how would TPTB feel if their favourite character on a show they loved appeared to them, from spoilers, not to have anything much going on for him in a new season of the show? Especially if said character wasn't a minor one, but the leading man, whose name appears first in the credits? Would they be worried, feel the writers etc weren't interested in the character, or certainly didn't care about the fans of the character? Because that's what it's looking like to me. That they just don't care about Shep fans. Otherwise why no reassurances, or tidbits? Oh, sorry, I forgot Shep has a couple of nice moments with Ronon in Ronon's dedicated episode, where Woolsey and Teyla have some great scenes....

If there was no information about any characters or their centric episodes then I would be ok with it all. It's the inequality I can't stand. One character seems to be being forgotten about deliberately, certainly in terms of spoilers from one of the executive producers, and I can't understand why. Is it a good old yanking of our chains? If it is...nice and not funny any more. If it's not, why nothing much for Sheppard? :confused:

I don't begrudge Ronon development at all. Jason deserves it. But I can't help but feel sad when I read that Jason has had the opportunity to delve more into Ronon and that he's had an opportunity to really get to grips with his character and will be giving us glimpses we haven't seen before. I don't feel Joe has ever been given that chance for Sheppard, not even in Outcast really, which I enjoyed immensely.

McKay always gets meaty episodes, some more than others, granted, but the fact that, yet again, he gets another tear jerker quite frankly grates. I loved Tao of Rodney, but that was a tear jerker. Why can't Sheppard get one of those types of episodes too? I'm not saying I don't want the other main characters to have their centric episodes, I do. But I want my favourite to get that opportunity too.

I always think of something Joe F said in season 2. He wanted a meaty episode like McKay gets, and Martin Gero said to him that he didn't basically know what Joe was complaining about, because Joe had lots of screen time. MG just didn't understand what Joe was saying. Poor Joe. That really sums it all up for me. Do none of the writers WANT to write for Sheppard? Are they all fighting over themselves to write for the other characters? I find it bizarre that there are so many excellent FF writers who write wonderful Sheppard stories, with him very much in character, and yet giving us just a little bit more of a glimpse of the man.

As for the apparent lack of team episodes? Well, that is disappointing too, as I said earlier. Having the odd one here and there and having the team split up just doesn't appeal to me any more. It just doesn't work as well if it goes on too long, I think.

There also in season 4 often weren't 'B' stories in many episodes. Sometimes I agree those do take away from the main plot. However, in quite a few episodes last season I craved them. I don't know if we're getting two stories simultaneously being told in episodes this year, but last year the fact that sometimes characters were missing or virtually missing from whole episodes made me unhappy and again made me feel wanting the team together or at least the characters mainly being in the stories.

Precisely!



I think the problem with that is that she is supposed to be part of the team... I'm not sure what Rachel's status is supposed to be on the show. She wasn't leading lady, that was for sure in the last 4 seasons. Maybe she is in 5, I don't know how that works really...
Anyway, as I was saying... I think the Teyla-fans (of who I am one) are just frustrated to have such a wonderful character with so much awesome potential being completely wasted away, like other characters. They all suffer from it except McKay. I think the McKay-fans are the happiest in the fandom (could be mistaken of course). And the whole pregnancy-storyline in 4 didn't do her any good, au contraire it hurt the character some more in my opinion (I know people who liked it).


I see Teyla as the leading lady, especially now!

A lot of the Teyla fans in the JT thread didn't like the pregnancy storyline as well and are worried with how they are going to deal with the bambino in S5

CazzBlade
April 12th, 2008, 02:41 PM
Not that it matters much, but I have always understood that opening credits meant a lot in terms of who was the "star" of the show. I imagine that billing has a lot to do with the status of the actor and what kind of contract they have with TPTB. From the start, JF was the lead-off man and RL was batting third, that's pretty good. For S4, AT replaced TH batting second billing. I wonder if RP is going to slide into that spot now, or if RL and JM will move up in the batting order. I imagine DH will always be the "And Starring..." at the end of the credits; batting clean up in a way (I know the analogy kind of falls apart at this point).

SGA draws its strength from its ensemble cast. Each of them brings strengths and weaknesses that make for good drama and character interaction. Each should have an opportunity to shine, but in the end, Sheppard is the glue that holds everything together. Even in those episodes where he is not the primary, he plays an important role. One example that just pops to mind is his brief appearance at the beginning of "Missing". It was important to the story that someone comment about Teyla's "hot date", and Sheppard was the best one for that job.

Let's face it, if it weren't for Sheppard, we wouldn't have the team at all. He personally selected Teyla, Ford and McKay, and then fought to have Ronon added when Ford was no longer there. He provides comic relief when necessary, just like O'Neill did in SG1, and he is able to drop the hammer when it is necessary.

Sheppard is the star of the show; and hopefully that will not change.

Yep, if you think about who each character is closest to you would say for Rodney it is Sheppard, for Ronon it is Sheppard and for Teyla it is Sheppard! I like how they are mixing it up like with Ronon and McKay but they would still go to Sheppard first

Jumper_One
April 12th, 2008, 02:46 PM
I see Teyla as the leading lady, especially now!

how so?


A lot of the Teyla fans in the JT thread didn't like the pregnancy storyline as well and are worried with how they are going to deal with the bambino in S5

what were they supposed to do? TBTB had to deal with it, one way or the other and RL sure didn't want to leave the show

CazzBlade
April 12th, 2008, 02:54 PM
how so?


Well, she's the veteran female in the cast now. We still barely know Keller so she can't be the leading lady. And I am a JT shipper so you know leading man with leading lady makes sense to me :P



what were they supposed to do? TBTB had to deal with it, one way or the other and RL sure didn't want to leave the show

No, its not that they included the pregnancy its the way they handled it. They thought Kanaan was a big after thought and he and Teyla had absolutely no chemistry. I'll have to ask Bluealien to come over and explain, she is constantly writing epics on the subject :P

Briangate78
April 12th, 2008, 02:58 PM
From Joe M's blog...


Watched the director’s cut of Daedalus Variations this afternoon. Andy Mikita did a terrific job on this one. Wow! Talk about a visual effects extravaganza! For those of you who enjoy “team” episodes in particular, this is one to look forward to.

Jumper_One
April 12th, 2008, 03:06 PM
Well, she's the veteran female in the cast now.

she's always been the veteran female because both Weir and Sam weren't part of Shep's team thus didn't go off world. not much has changed imo


We still barely know Keller so she can't be the leading lady.

of course not, she's a doctor (no offense) ;)


And I am a JT shipper so you know leading man with leading lady makes sense to me :P

oh ok :P


No, its not that they included the pregnancy its the way they handled it.

what would you have done differently?


They thought Kanaan was a big after thought and he and Teyla had absolutely no chemistry.

it's not as if they had a lot of scenes together


I'll have to ask Bluealien to come over and explain, she is constantly writing epics on the subject :P

please do :)


From Joe M's blog...

yup seen that ;)

ruby_caspar
April 12th, 2008, 03:21 PM
Not that it matters much, but I have always understood that opening credits meant a lot in terms of who was the "star" of the show. I imagine that billing has a lot to do with the status of the actor and what kind of contract they have with TPTB. From the start, JF was the lead-off man and RL was batting third, that's pretty good. For S4, AT replaced TH batting second billing. I wonder if RP is going to slide into that spot now, or if RL and JM will move up in the batting order. I imagine DH will always be the "And Starring..." at the end of the credits; batting clean up in a way (I know the analogy kind of falls apart at this point).

SGA draws its strength from its ensemble cast. Each of them brings strengths and weaknesses that make for good drama and character interaction. Each should have an opportunity to shine, but in the end, Sheppard is the glue that holds everything together. Even in those episodes where he is not the primary, he plays an important role. One example that just pops to mind is his brief appearance at the beginning of "Missing". It was important to the story that someone comment about Teyla's "hot date", and Sheppard was the best one for that job.

Let's face it, if it weren't for Sheppard, we wouldn't have the team at all. He personally selected Teyla, Ford and McKay, and then fought to have Ronon added when Ford was no longer there. He provides comic relief when necessary, just like O'Neill did in SG1, and he is able to drop the hammer when it is necessary.

Sheppard is the star of the show; and hopefully that will not change.

Well, Robert Picardo is such a big name that he will probably be at the end of the credits with DH, especially since Jewel will also be in the main credits this season. So, the way I think it will (and should) go is: JF, RL, JM, JS, with RP and DH. That's what they did when they had that number of characters before - they had two at the end, David and Paul.

I totally agree with you about Sheppard - he is the star, but I also think McKay is a very very close second. Though McKay has, proportionally, been given too much development. Don't get me wrong - I'm a big McKay fan, but I don't think the development of other characters should be sacrificed to keep having stories about him.

Ronon is my favourite SGA character, so I'm very happy about the spoilers appearing about him. I'd like to hear more Teyla development, but I'm used to being disappointed on that score by now. I'm actually quite looking forward to Whispers (you know that will end up being all about Sheppard and Beckett anyway) and can't wait to see Picardo on the show. As for lack of Sheppard spoilers thus far - I'm not worried. It's very early on and they're still spinning, and I'm sure Sheppard will continue to be the great wise-cracking flyboy wounded soul we all know and love, and have plenty of great plotlines. :D

What I want to see more of is team storylines. SGA have proven they can do it really well - Condemned, Vengeance, Aurora etc... but so far it looks like Daedalus Variations is the only one we've got :(

Lorr
April 12th, 2008, 03:40 PM
From Joe M's blog...

Watched the director’s cut of Daedalus Variations this afternoon. Andy Mikita did a terrific job on this one. Wow! Talk about a visual effects extravaganza! For those of you who enjoy “team” episodes in particular, this is one to look forward to.

The problem is that we rarely get true "team" episodes. It's one of the things I loved about SG1, and soooooo miss that kind of ep in SGA. That way we'd get good (hopefully) stories that would have all four main characters prominent in each ep.

I know RL being pregnant last year kind of messed up any hope of that, but it didn't sould like TPTB were aiming for team stories anyway.

I also realize it would be difficult to come up with original stories for the team since SG1 had 10 seasons plus 2 movies with many, many team stories. But the writers are clever guys, so I would hope that a whole new galaxy could produce something! Geez, they could have the Ancients leaving behind more than one failed experiment or have another race having visited or even hiding in Pegasus!

I'm hoping and trying to be optimistic, but I think the show runners have favorites and not-so-favorites. People are drawn to what they like. TPTB are no different, so they are going to go with that which they feel the most affinity. I'm just going to trust they temper that with some level of equity.

Briangate78
April 12th, 2008, 04:01 PM
The problem is that we rarely get true "team" episodes. It's one of the things I loved about SG1, and soooooo miss that kind of ep in SGA. That way we'd get good (hopefully) stories that would have all four main characters prominent in each ep.

I know RL being pregnant last year kind of messed up any hope of that, but it didn't sould like TPTB were aiming for team stories anyway.

I also realize it would be difficult to come up with original stories for the team since SG1 had 10 seasons plus 2 movies with many, many team stories. But the writers are clever guys, so I would hope that a whole new galaxy could produce something! Geez, they could have the Ancients leaving behind more than one failed experiment or have another race having visited or even hiding in Pegasus!

I'm hoping and trying to be optimistic, but I think the show runners have favorites and not-so-favorites. People are drawn to what they like. TPTB are no different, so they are going to go with that which they feel the most affinity. I'm just going to trust they temper that with some level of equity.

I am sure we will see more "Team" eps for Season 5 than Season 4 since RL is back to her regular self and not expecting. :p

SpaceCowboy
April 12th, 2008, 05:18 PM
Well, she's the veteran female in the cast now. We still barely know Keller so she can't be the leading lady. And I am a JT shipper so you know leading man with leading lady makes sense to me

Well said. Teyla plays a great "straight woman" when Sheppard slips into his O'Neill, smarta** mode. She is the female lead, and as such deserves to get more to do.

As far as the JT shipper aspect, while I think they would make a fascinating couple, is it not the tension between them and the assumptions of the fans and other characters that is far more interesting. In other words, it is the anticipation of the event rather than the event itself. My greatest fear is that if the JT ship ever sailed, SGA would have officially "jumped the shark".



"I can see you shiver with antici..........pation!" Dr. Frank N. Furter

Killdeer
April 12th, 2008, 05:48 PM
No, just no..... please. Surely I'm not the only Sheppard fan here who thinks that making him be in love with Teyla would be bad for his character (and hers), am I? He's her team leader for crying out loud. And no, I didn't like Jack/Sam either - that very much damaged Jack as a character for me. (And no, I'm not pro John/Elizabeth either).

Jumper_One
April 12th, 2008, 05:57 PM
No, just no..... please. Surely I'm not the only Sheppard fan here who thinks that making him be in love with Teyla would be bad for his character (and hers), am I? He's her team leader for crying out loud. And no, I didn't like Jack/Sam either - that very much damaged Jack as a character for me. (And no, I'm not pro John/Elizabeth either).

you're not, ITA ;) S/J was different imo but there's no reason for any love story/triangle in Atlantis

Killdeer
April 12th, 2008, 05:58 PM
you're not, ITA ;)

Thank you! :D

jelgate
April 12th, 2008, 06:06 PM
No, just no..... please. Surely I'm not the only Sheppard fan here who thinks that making him be in love with Teyla would be bad for his character (and hers), am I? He's her team leader for crying out loud. And no, I didn't like Jack/Sam either - that very much damaged Jack as a character for me. (And no, I'm not pro John/Elizabeth either).

No but I'm an anti-shipper

Killdeer
April 12th, 2008, 06:19 PM
No but I'm an anti-shipper

I'm an anti Shep-shipper. :D As in I haven't met a woman on Atlantis yet that I could see Sheppard with.

Southern Red
April 12th, 2008, 06:32 PM
Yep, if you think about who each character is closest to you would say for Rodney it is Sheppard, for Ronon it is Sheppard and for Teyla it is Sheppard! I like how they are mixing it up like with Ronon and McKay but they would still go to Sheppard first

I agree with the others but I'd say Teyla is much closer to Ronon than Sheppard. He spends time with her and her people, knew all about Kanaan and just seems more supportive. Of course your ship preference doesn't allow you to think that way which is okay.

But can we just leave the ship out of this thread. I'm a Sparky shipper and don't want to have to listen to all the Sheyla. I'm sure you would desire the same if things were different.



No, just no..... please. Surely I'm not the only Sheppard fan here who thinks that making him be in love with Teyla would be bad for his character (and hers), am I? He's her team leader for crying out loud. And no, I didn't like Jack/Sam either - that very much damaged Jack as a character for me. (And no, I'm not pro John/Elizabeth either).

No, no a thousand times no. There has never been any romantic chemistry between Shep and Teyla and forcing it won't change that. In spite of my Sparky love, I have always been a Sheppard fan first and foremost.

Killdeer
April 12th, 2008, 06:37 PM
But can we just leave the ship out of this thread.

I vote for that.

Briangate78
April 12th, 2008, 06:45 PM
Shipping and the characters having sex with everyone on the show is for BSG! :p

Jumper_One
April 12th, 2008, 06:52 PM
Shipping and the characters having sex with everyone on the show is for BSG! :p

*off to watch BSG* :P

Fenrir Foxz
April 12th, 2008, 07:24 PM
*off to watch BSG* :P

:lol: Dirrty Jumper :P

Jumper_One
April 12th, 2008, 07:38 PM
:lol: Dirrty Jumper :P

:rolleyes: :P

Lorr
April 12th, 2008, 08:16 PM
Yes, please, shipping on the ship threads. This is a Shep and team thread. We should keep on topic.

Thank you!

Irish Eyes
April 12th, 2008, 08:37 PM
Leave it to you, Peg, to draw me back in for a moment. :)

My gut feeling is there is nothing to worry about. He is their lead and I can't see them not using the character a lot. I'm more concerned about HOW they will be using him, but that's a discussion for another thread.

As far as the team goes, after season 4 I've come to the conclusion that TPTB consider any episode that has at least 2 members of the team together a "team" episode. Sad, but true. We'll just have to hope for better results in season 5.

jelgate
April 12th, 2008, 08:40 PM
Yes, please, shipping on the ship threads. This is a Shep and team thread. We should keep on topic.

Thank you!

Another derailed thread brought to you by Jelgate

tatinha
April 12th, 2008, 10:26 PM
About the team, I would say there isn't a team anymore, since Carson died; Weir died; Ford went missing, Teyla is a mother. We don't have a team. I think Carter and Keller could not fill the hole that Carson and Wier left. Besides, when the series started, the focus was Colonel Sheppard, who had an interesting history to be discovered, and that was forgot, which was a great disappointment. The story of the black mark and his family's problems were left in a second plane and Colonel Sheppard's character faded. There is no team and there is no leader and the episodes don't have interesting focuses. That's the problem, in my opinion.

Elinor
April 12th, 2008, 10:52 PM
I've always thought of the team as being the group of four that go off world on missions. So that would be Shep, McKay, Ronon and Teyla. Shep refers to them as 'being on his team'. The others are part of the expedition but not team members. Just my take on it though!

I guess the big problem with splitting those up and not having certain characters in an episode much is, if it's your fave character and he/she only has a couple of lines and the story isn't particularly your cup of tea...well, you're probably only going to watch that episode once maybe twice and that's it! (Blimey, that was a long sentence. Sure I should've put more full stops in there somewhere! :D). So, yes, team episodes are great but I'm happy to see other types of stories to...as long as they're all balanced out.

I really, really hope we get some more Sheppard spoilers soon though. It does seem to be a huge concern for a lot of people. I've noticed this thread has had a lot of interest (well done Peggy) ...lots of 'guests' viewing the thread. I hope they're some of TPTB. Please tell us some Sheppy good news soon guys!!

:)

Southern Red
April 13th, 2008, 04:37 AM
About the team, I would say there isn't a team anymore, since Carson died; Weir died; Ford went missing, Teyla is a mother. We don't have a team. I think Carter and Keller could not fill the hole that Carson and Wier left. Besides, when the series started, the focus was Colonel Sheppard, who had an interesting history to be discovered, and that was forgot, which was a great disappointment. The story of the black mark and his family's problems were left in a second plane and Colonel Sheppard's character faded. There is no team and there is no leader and the episodes don't have interesting focuses. That's the problem, in my opinion.

I could not have said it better. Though I agree with Elinor that "the team" usually means Shep's team. I think since he included Carson and Weir in his "family" in Sateda, Shep's larger team must include them. Rambling. Does that make sense?


I've always thought of the team as being the group of four that go off world on missions. So that would be Shep, McKay, Ronon and Teyla. Shep refers to them as 'being on his team'. The others are part of the expedition but not team members. Just my take on it though!

I guess the big problem with splitting those up and not having certain characters in an episode much is, if it's your fave character and he/she only has a couple of lines and the story isn't particularly your cup of tea...well, you're probably only going to watch that episode once maybe twice and that's it! (Blimey, that was a long sentence. Sure I should've put more full stops in there somewhere! :D). So, yes, team episodes are great but I'm happy to see other types of stories to...as long as they're all balanced out.

I really, really hope we get some more Sheppard spoilers soon though. It does seem to be a huge concern for a lot of people. I've noticed this thread has had a lot of interest (well done Peggy) ...lots of 'guests' viewing the thread. I hope they're some of TPTB. Please tell us some Sheppy good news soon guys!!

:)

Well there's Shep news on JM's blog. And I quote:

I envisioned Teldy as a strong, by-the-book, leader; someone capable of leading her team into battle and going toe to toe with whatever is thrown her way be it an off-world mystery, an alien threat, or Colonel John Sheppard.

So there you have it. He's to be thrown at the ill-fated hot blonde. Progress? :lol:

Vespasianus
April 13th, 2008, 05:02 AM
Me, I Wouldn't worry about Sheppard's absence in spoilers. There were some eps in the past which were focused on another character, but we had plenty of Sheppard in it, because, well, he is the lead character on the show.

Thus, I think we can expect Shep moments in S&R and:
- he will have to deal with Woolsey's leadership in The Seed
- JM said there will be good Sheppard-Ronon scenes in Broken Ties
- The Daealus Variations is a team ep (and Sheppard leads the team)
- Ghost in the Machine will deal with Weir and her group, Shep has strong ties with Elizabeth
- in Whispers, he and Beckett will be the stars
- JM said that the other characters beside McKay and Daniel will also have roles in the mid-season two parter
- we'll have a Sheppard whump ep in the back half, with possibly more backround story about the Lt. Col.

asgard30
April 13th, 2008, 07:05 AM
Hi all How are you ?
I saw an interesting topic so I decided to post in here. First of all I'm not english and I fear that what I said isn't great (my english won't be the only responsible lol) but please don't hesitate to tell me whe it's really bad and you don't understand :lol:

Generally I don't like to say things because and especially with Stargate I was always happy with what the authors did (perhaps I'm easily happy lol) but I agree I have little problems with the spoilers for S5 for Shep and for the team.
I'm not really worried for Shep because like you said he is the leading man and is always there even when it isn't necessary (Trio for example). This is not a critic this is only for say that I don't think that Shep risks a lot and to be honnest my fav character is Teyla and I fear most for her because sadly she hasn't his chance. But I think this is a question of quantity and quality.
To be optimist I tell me that perhaps they don't say a lot of news and they try to not divulgue too much news. Like we knew nothing in S&R for Shep because TLM wasn't diffuse yet and they keep interesting things.

I love team episodes, and they generally are my favourites. I missed the team feel in season 4, despite the fact that we were told season 4 would be centring on the team of four. It never really did. I realise there were reasons for this because of personal and private events happening to some of the actors, and that's perfectly understandable and outside of the control of the producers and actors.

But I was hoping to see season 5 show us a lot more team stuff.
Really well said. I totally agree. This is perhaps because I was a fan of SG1 but I've always been happy with what we had in team feelings. S4 lack a lot this team feelings and even if I find it great, this isn't my favorite season. I don't understand why the authors keep on introducing new characters and make Shep or McKay save the day while for me if I watch the show it's for the core team.

Yeah sadly I find SGA and even people who like the show too much divided. Like I said this isn't a critic I find myself defend against all my fav character lol but I find it sad I thought that Stargate wasn't this type of show and they try to make a team spirit and everyone has his plave. I'm not too fond of character centered ep. Where is the team and the exploration which make SG1 an excellent show. I totally agree SGA is different and I thought they develop a different culture very well but the interest for me was the introduction to new cultures, the interaction of characters and the friendship and comfort (?) they find in difficult time.

I too am a little concerned, although I am remaining optimistic. I am first and foremost a Shep fan and am very disappointed at the lack of info on Sheppard in spoilers so far. It has been confirmed that other characters have eps, but we haven't really heard much for the leading man and there seems to be a lack of team eps yet again.

I have to admit I have not really warmed to Keller, I keep waiting hoping to find that in an ep her character grows on me and starts to feel like she belongs, but I am still waiting and the thought of more eps with her around when it could have been a team ep makes me sad.


I love SGA but for me Sheppard is a big part of that, I need him to play a decent part in it, I mean it took four seasons for us to even get backstory, so for me it is important that he gets a good focused ep. I also love the team eps and it doesn't seem like there are many yet (I say yet as I am keeping things crossed for more promising news for the second half of the season)


I'm sorry but I disagree. (I'm really sorry :o :lol:) for me Shep isn't the leading man. For me SGA is really a question of team and core team there is leading men and lady IMO. Besides it's true he seems in front of all, he has the most of screen time but I thought S4 wasn't great for him and to be honest for Ronon neither. I find them a little too much in the background except for THEIR character centered ep where the others weren't even there.
I like Keller but I think this is alittle the fault of the writers that people don't like her. (Once again I'm sorry I'm not a writer :lol:) but she was everywhere and like someone said in this thread she divides the team. Everywhere she was there wasn't team. She had ep centered around her that even Carter didn't have. I like Carter I'm a fan of SG1 and I fear she will shine too much. But by trying to don't make her shine we didn't even saw her. Keller could have been more in her place by beeing in the credit than Sam :(

Well said to you!

I think you hit the nail on the head in your post. It's the fact that there's information about episodes and storylines for the other main characters and none for Sheppard. That's what I find particularly difficult to understand, and I actually find it quite hurtful too.

I mean how would TPTB feel if their favourite character on a show they loved appeared to them, from spoilers, not to have anything much going on for him in a new season of the show? Especially if said character wasn't a minor one, but the leading man, whose name appears first in the credits? Would they be worried, feel the writers etc weren't interested in the character, or certainly didn't care about the fans of the character? Because that's what it's looking like to me. That they just don't care about Shep fans. Otherwise why no reassurances, or tidbits? Oh, sorry, I forgot Shep has a couple of nice moments with Ronon in Ronon's dedicated episode, where Woolsey and Teyla have some great scenes....

If there was no information about any characters or their centric episodes then I would be ok with it all. It's the inequality I can't stand. One character seems to be being forgotten about deliberately, certainly in terms of spoilers from one of the executive producers, and I can't understand why. Is it a good old yanking of our chains? If it is...nice and not funny any more. If it's not, why nothing much for Sheppard? :confused:

As for the apparent lack of team episodes? Well, that is disappointing too, as I said earlier. Having the odd one here and there and having the team split up just doesn't appeal to me any more. It just doesn't work as well if it goes on too long, I think.

There also in season 4 often weren't 'B' stories in many episodes. Sometimes I agree those do take away from the main plot. However, in quite a few episodes last season I craved them. I don't know if we're getting two stories simultaneously being told in episodes this year, but last year the fact that sometimes characters were missing or virtually missing from whole episodes made me unhappy and again made me feel wanting the team together or at least the characters mainly being in the stories.
Welcome to the world of Teylafan. At the difference of many Teylafan who dislike Teyla storyline I was myself really happy to see that the authors seem to be interested in her character.

There's a team?!? *iz completely shocked* Really?!? http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y188/FalconHorus/Smiley/Other/huh.gif

Where? *looks around* http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y188/FalconHorus/Smiley/Other/idunno5rr.gif

I must have missed them... Missplaced them somewhere. http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y188/FalconHorus/Smiley/Other/smileys35.gif

*****

Looks like there hasn't been a real TEAM in ages, like in :ronan::teyla::sheppard::mckay: ... you know... THE team. Elizabeth, Carson, Zelenka, Lorne, Kate, Chuck, ... all also part of THE team but I have feeling they're not the ones we're talking about here.


BUT anyway, you'll see McKay and Sheppard will still be front and center 3/4th of the time. Teyla and Ronon will walk in their shadows, stand in the back... roll their eyes, grunt a little, shoot something. Shep and McKay will save the day and all is well with the world.

Snark much... :p
Sad but really true IMO

Yeah not liking it. :lol:



*bats her eyelashes* What? ;)

I agree I don't think they give away the full plot, but usually with these types of spoilers I expected even the basics on the team and the general set up.




There just feels 'less team' eps. Did JM post that thing about the team today because he knows we're worried or if that's just the first team ep?


Broken ties looks as if it's going to be great, and while I love seeing different pairings, I do like to know that the team is there even if the focus is on a pairing.



Thanks for that Josie, the ones i've seen have showed at least a background. I would assume that the characters involved and who they're interacting with would be mentioned though. So if the 'team' aren't mentioned wouldn't that suggest they're not in it?



Well said. I do like to see a balance of eps between the characters and the teams. So that no one is at a disadvantage. I'm hoping we'll hear something soon about the latter half of the season, because there is lots more to go and after my rant i'm feeling a bit better. Still concerned, still worried, but hopefull.... and a bit scared.... :o


I know you don't care much for Shep, and prefer other pairings. How do you feel about Teyla not interacting much with the team last season, and would you want that again for S5?
Please don't remember this :thoranime01: what reconfort me it's that sadly there wasn't a lot of interaction with the team for other characters because there wasn't TEAM :lol: Yeah it makes me really odd to see what JM said on the TEAM ep like this was new hey you like team eps, don't miss it there will be only one. Like people who like team eps are a minority but I don't think so but I don't know sadly I find myself always in minorities :lol:

asgard30
April 13th, 2008, 07:06 AM
And Teyla is always there also. She's standing in the background, running for the jumper, dragging McKay out of his stupor, arguing with John, having actual interaction with Ronon, whining about Kanaan and her people, imitating Counselor Troi, eating ground slugs and a myriad of other things. She may not always be the focus. But. She. Is. There.

John is also just there sometimes. Wallpapered just like Teyla, only with a few more lines. Which by the way, I think in S4 were remarkably repetitive. It may be favorite character prejudice, but I don't see why the Teyla fans are so upset. They never said she was the star. The star is supposed to be the big damn hero. WTF isn't he?????

Leaving now. It's time for wine. This whole thing has rubbed my last nerve.
I understand what you say and particularly if you are a Weir fan. I agree with John and like I said I was one of a few who like Teyla storyline. But if Teylafan are upset it'sbecause it was time for her to really shine. For me she had the chance to shine a lot this season but her character was profondly modified. She was all motherhood one moment and become again the warrior (what IMO she wouldn't have stop to be even pregnant) She was sensed to be the leading lady and she was a lot in the background. They gave her an huge arc which is really reduced in the story. It seems like nobody ask her if she was okay with what she lives. Atlantis seems to don't even start to search her people before Teyla disappear. Like I said I like this storyline because Rachel was given something to act and her character growth the most for me and IMO we growth with her. But finally the arc was reduced to her pregnancy which sadly didn't even turn to be sci-fi or occasion for team eps what I would have liked for an arc.



*giggles* Sorry, this is just a funny rant... I can feel the frustration. There's frustration, right? Cause otherwise I'm probably misreading.

I can proof though, that Teyla isn't around as much as Sheppard. :p
And quality over quantity.... yes, but if there isn't much quantity you can't have much quality either.



I think the problem with that is that she is supposed to be part of the team... I'm not sure what Rachel's status is supposed to be on the show. She wasn't leading lady, that was for sure in the last 4 seasons. Maybe she is in 5, I don't know how that works really...
Anyway, as I was saying... I think the Teyla-fans (of who I am one) are just frustrated to have such a wonderful character with so much awesome potential being completely wasted away, like other characters. They all suffer from it except McKay. I think the McKay-fans are the happiest in the fandom (could be mistaken of course). And the whole pregnancy-storyline in 4 didn't do her any good, au contraire it hurt the character some more in my opinion (I know people who liked it).

I don't know... just my 2 cent on the matter...



My whine is Illustrator... oh, I'm putting literally every bit of frustration and snark in my work at the moment.
I agree with you but for me there can be leading male or leading lady only if you can compare it to something id est the team. Without this they can do what they want but it's uninteresting. Travelers wasn't interesting because what is the point that he did all of this if there isn't witness, if it can have incidence over the show because he is the only one to know ? And sadly growth the most because sadly he doesn't need the team, he always evolve alone.



:lol: I love a good mix, but I just get the feeling from what we've read that more time will be spent on new characters rather than concentrating on developing the team. I really felt as if the team in S4 was less evident, and i really hope it's not that sort of mix that he's referring to. As Linz said there didn't seem to be many 'B' storylines either. Sometimes at least on those points we get to see more teamyness.


Yeah really well said for me. Keller someone ? (like I said I like Keller but hey she was on all promotional photos)

Not that it matters much, but I have always understood that opening credits meant a lot in terms of who was the "star" of the show.
SGA draws its strength from its ensemble cast. Each of them brings strengths and weaknesses that make for good drama and character interaction. Each should have an opportunity to shine, but in the end, Sheppard is the glue that holds everything together. Even in those episodes where he is not the primary, he plays an important role. One example that just pops to mind is his brief appearance at the beginning of "Missing". It was important to the story that someone comment about Teyla's "hot date", and Sheppard was the best one for that job.

Let's face it, if it weren't for Sheppard, we wouldn't have the team at all. He personally selected Teyla, Ford and McKay, and then fought to have Ronon added when Ford was no longer there. He provides comic relief when necessary, just like O'Neill did in SG1, and he is able to drop the hammer when it is necessary.

Sheppard is the star of the show; and hopefully that will not change.
Yoiu are right on Shep but I find it sad. I don't know why it seems impossible for Rodney to make time with Teyla (she has to be too stupid:mckay:)
But I'm stupid too :lol: because I thought that the credit were in alphabetical order Flanigan -Higginson -Luttrell -Momoa and DH because he was special. I was disappointed in S4 I thought Sam will take place of Beckett. I hope it won't be Keller instead of Carter now :lol:

I totally agree with you about Sheppard - he is the star, but I also think McKay is a very very close second. Though McKay has, proportionally, been given too much development. Don't get me wrong - I'm a big McKay fan, but I don't think the development of other characters should be sacrificed to keep having stories about him.

Ronon is my favourite SGA character, so I'm very happy about the spoilers appearing about him. I'd like to hear more Teyla development, but I'm used to being disappointed on that score by now. I'm actually quite looking forward to Whispers (you know that will end up being all about Sheppard and Beckett anyway) and can't wait to see Picardo on the show. As for lack of Sheppard spoilers thus far - I'm not worried. It's very early on and they're still spinning, and I'm sure Sheppard will continue to be the great wise-cracking flyboy wounded soul we all know and love, and have plenty of great plotlines. :D

What I want to see more of is team storylines. SGA have proven they can do it really well - Condemned, Vengeance, Aurora etc... but so far it looks like Daedalus Variations is the only one we've got :(
I would like too but please don't hate me but I think that McKay replace Shep in the center of the show.


I've always thought of the team as being the group of four that go off world on missions. So that would be Shep, McKay, Ronon and Teyla. Shep refers to them as 'being on his team'. The others are part of the expedition but not team members. Just my take on it though!

Really well said
For someone who like the show I said a lot of critics :lol:

CazzBlade
April 13th, 2008, 07:38 AM
Please don't remember this :thoranime01: what reconfort me it's that sadly there wasn't a lot of interaction with the team for other characters because there wasn't TEAM :lol: Yeah it makes me really odd to see what JM said on the TEAM ep like this was new hey you like team eps, don't miss it there will be only one. Like people who like team eps are a minority but I don't think so but I don't know sadly I find myself always in minorities :lol:

ITA :(

Listy
April 13th, 2008, 07:57 AM
I'm sorry but I disagree. (I'm really sorry :o :lol:) for me Shep isn't the leading man. For me SGA is really a question of team and core team there is leading men and lady IMO. Besides it's true he seems in front of all, he has the most of screen time but I thought S4 wasn't great for him and to be honest for Ronon neither. I find them a little too much in the background except for THEIR character centered ep where the others weren't even there.
I like Keller but I think this is alittle the fault of the writers that people don't like her. (Once again I'm sorry I'm not a writer :lol:) but she was everywhere and like someone said in this thread she divides the team. Everywhere she was there wasn't team. She had ep centered around her that even Carter didn't have. I like Carter I'm a fan of SG1 and I fear she will shine too much. But by trying to don't make her shine we didn't even saw her. Keller could have been more in her place by beeing in the credit than Sam :(


You don't agree that Sheppard is the leading man or you just don't agree with what I said? (sorry I don't understand:))

I agree that SGA is about the team, I adore the team eps which seem to be distinctly lacking, but I also want to know about a major episode for Sheppard, Sheppard is the lead character, and so far we haven't heard about one, I just would like to know either way if there wil be one, I don't even need details, just a little reassurance that I will get to see a good ep with my favourite character.

Sorry I guess I just don't get what you are disagreeing with (maybe I am just sleep deprived and not thinking straight, a little clarification would be good :o)

asgard30
April 13th, 2008, 09:39 AM
You don't agree that Sheppard is the leading man or you just don't agree with what I said? (sorry I don't understand:))

I agree that SGA is about the team, I adore the team eps which seem to be distinctly lacking, but I also want to know about a major episode for Sheppard, Sheppard is the lead character, and so far we haven't heard about one, I just would like to know either way if there wil be one, I don't even need details, just a little reassurance that I will get to see a good ep with my favourite character.

Sorry I guess I just don't get what you are disagreeing with (maybe I am just sleep deprived and not thinking straight, a little clarification would be good :o)

Oh sorry you know I'm a little blonde at times I don't explain well myself :lol:.
I disagree with Shep being the leading man because I didn't imagine Stargate as a character centered and like before I never come to fandom I was surprised to discover that people said he is the leading man. It's true he will certainly be the head of the list but I think I confond (?) it with SG1 where I never thought Jack alone could stand for SG1 (more importantly in S9 and 10).
But if we have to choose someone nowadays I ask myself if people would say Shep. He is the military and team leading man but not of the show. I don't know how to say it I don't want that it seems a critic. But I think the author put all their energy in developping Rodney and finally Shep suffer from this in the same manner than Teyla IMO.
And to answer you yeah I disagree with Shep leading man because I agree with the rest of your post :lol: sorry :o And I think that finally JM is avare of spoilers. I ask myself that perhaps it's to hide really important things and Shep will have such a big development :lol:

Listy
April 13th, 2008, 09:46 AM
Oh sorry you know I'm a little blonde at times I don't explain well myself :lol:.
I disagree with Shep being the leading man because I didn't imagine Stargate as a character centered and like before I never come to fandom I was surprised to discover that people said he is the leading man. It's true he will certainly be the head of the list but I think I confond (?) it with SG1 where I never thought Jack alone could stand for SG1 (more importantly in S9 and 10).
But if we have to choose someone nowadays I ask myself if people would say Shep. He is the military and team leading man but not of the show. I don't know how to say it I don't want that it seems a critic. But I think the author put all their energy in developping Rodney and finally Shep suffer from this in the same manner than Teyla IMO.
And to answer you yeah I disagree with Shep leading man because I agree with the rest of your post :lol: sorry :o And I think that finally JM is avare of spoilers. I ask myself that perhaps it's to hide really important things and Shep will have such a big development :lol:

Ah I think I understand now, you see the show as being a team show and that no one person is the main focus is that correct? Sorry I didn't get that before, I think I am just being a bit thick today :)

I hope you are correct and there is a big development for Shep, I think it would be wonderful :) and its what Shep fans are waiting for :)

bluealien
April 13th, 2008, 04:04 PM
No, just no..... please. Surely I'm not the only Sheppard fan here who thinks that making him be in love with Teyla would be bad for his character (and hers), am I? He's her team leader for crying out loud. And no, I didn't like Jack/Sam either - that very much damaged Jack as a character for me. (And no, I'm not pro John/Elizabeth either).

I'm a huge Shep fan and don't think any relationship has to damage any character if its well written and I'm kinda fed up hearing this same old argument. SGA will never do outright relationships with the main characters but maybe just hint at it and that's not gonna do any damage. Throwing hot babes at him won't help his character either, but that seems to be the only thing the writers can do for Shep these days. A nice friendship moment like in Sateda or where John and Teyla hug (which can be interpreted as Shippy by some fans if they so wish) is ten times better IMO than watching Shep turn into a fumbling teenager around woman.

The writers need to give Sheppard something meaty and turn his character into something more than the one dementional character he gets to portray most of the time. Joe Flanigan is totally underused on the show and I would rather see him get more deep and meaningful stuff and less screentime, then just be written into every episode as the hot guy who runs around with a gun. He needs something different and unique which delves into his character and where we actually learn something about the man. Being the hero shouldn't mean he's not allowed to show emotion and this bottling up of everything is getting old.

Sheppard needs to grow and to be given a chance to show what lies beneath that mask he wears, and the relationship between Sheppard and Teyla would be a perfect way of getting him to open up. Sheppard should be allowed to show emotion, it can be in private and it would be so welcome seeing something cause that steely control of his to waiver, and who better than Teyla or Ronon to witness this. No one is advocating he falls to pieces but considering the crap the guy has been through over the last few years it's becoming unbelievable that none of this can effect him or take it's toll.

So I do hope that the ptb have something good in store for us this season for Shep, but I'm not holding my breath. It looks like the writers are steering away from team eps in season 5, and giving us way too many fragmented stories with these new characters that I have absolutely no interest in at all. The ensemble cast and team are the reason I watch the show and this is where the focus should be placed for the show to grow and to keep fans interested. If the mix keeps getting diluted with all these new characters then the writers will end up developing none of them. The core of the show should the relationships between the main cast, and that doesn't mean that some have to have a hissy fit anytime some of them interact in a sligthly more intimate or friendly way.

asgard30
April 14th, 2008, 04:04 AM
Ah I think I understand now, you see the show as being a team show and that no one person is the main focus is that correct? Sorry I didn't get that before, I think I am just being a bit thick today :)

I hope you are correct and there is a big development for Shep, I think it would be wonderful :) and its what Shep fans are waiting for :)
Yeah it's this. Hey you say things so much better than me ;)


The writers need to give Sheppard something meaty and turn his character into something more than the one dementional character he gets to portray most of the time. Joe Flanigan is totally underused on the show and I would rather see him get more deep and meaningful stuff and less screentime, then just be written into every episode as the hot guy who runs around with a gun. He needs something different and unique which delves into his character and where we actually learn something about the man. Being the hero shouldn't mean he's not allowed to show emotion and this bottling up of everything is getting old.

So I do hope that the ptb have something good in store for us this season for Shep, but I'm not holding my breath. It looks like the writers are steering away from team eps in season 5, and giving us way too many fragmented stories with these new characters that I have absolutely no interest in at all. The ensemble cast and team are the reason I watch the show and this is where the focus should be placed for the show to grow and to keep fans interested. If the mix keeps getting diluted with all these new characters then the writers will end up developing none of them. The core of the show should the relationships between the main cast, and that doesn't mean that some have to have a hissy fit anytime some of them interact in a sligthly more intimate or friendly way.

Very well said ITA.
I miss the old good time (like in S3 :lol:) where when we have spoilers we couldn't even imagine that the main focus wouldn't be in the team. I keep hope but it's true that JM said that the second half of S4 would turn more around the team and we never have less team feeling than in this moment.
I miss too the exploration when they go to encounter new races and culture. Now when they are in mission it seems it's to encounter other members of Atlantis expedition :lol: and when someone encounter a new race this is the only one to know that they exist and to interact with them.
Nevertheless I think they keep secret points and speak to us of superficial things like new members to keep the secret around the main characters. I really hope.

Listy
April 14th, 2008, 10:31 AM
Yeah it's this. Hey you say things so much better than me ;)

Believe me I sometimes wonder if English is actually my first language ;) and no I don't say it better I just need to repeat it a few times in different ways to get it to sink in to my brain :)

I am glad I get it now though :)

Repli!kat
April 15th, 2008, 09:25 AM
http://forum.gateworld.net/showpost.php?p=8068802&postcount=63

And yet another seemingly Shep-light ep. :(

Southern Red
April 15th, 2008, 10:33 AM
http://forum.gateworld.net/showpost.php?p=8068802&postcount=63

And yet another seemingly Shep-light ep. :(

Is he even still in this show? Good to see Jason and Rachel have scenes together.

maxbo
April 15th, 2008, 11:12 AM
http://forum.gateworld.net/showpost.php?p=8068802&postcount=63

And yet another seemingly Shep-light ep. :(

I'm becoming increasingly concerned by this lack of any significant Sheppard mention because I can't help but wonder if it's because TPTB have no idea of what to do with him so they plan to just write him into episodes as they go along, or, if there's something more permanent in the works that could mean no Sheppard if there's a Season 6. :S:(

I hope the answer is neither of the above and that TPTB surprise me as they did with Miller's Crossing. Although that episode was mostly about Rodney, it turned out to be one of Sheppard's best episodes. It was good to see JF get something that he could sink his teeth into for a change.

Reiko
April 15th, 2008, 11:22 AM
About the team, I would say there isn't a team anymore, since Carson died; Weir died; Ford went missing, Teyla is a mother. We don't have a team. I think Carter and Keller could not fill the hole that Carson and Wier left.

.: Lovely post, tatinha!
Sorry, but I'm snipping this into two sections. I wholeheartedly agree with what you said. There really is no team now that Carson and Elizabeth have been basically thrown out the window. And there is no way Carter, and especially Keller and Woolsey can ever fill those spots. Never. :mad:

.: 'Team' and 'family' is gone - don't even get me onto those incredibly forced, ridiculous family scenes with Keller that may only increase in the fifth season. The cast shake-up has done no good things, whether it's reeling in SG1 viewers, stringing along Weir and Carson fans, and for heck "shaking it up". :mckay:


Besides, when the series started, the focus was Colonel Sheppard, who had an interesting history to be discovered, and that was forgot, which was a great disappointment. The story of the black mark and his family's problems were left in a second plane and Colonel Sheppard's character faded. There is no team and there is no leader and the episodes don't have interesting focuses. That's the problem, in my opinion.

.: ITA.



Looks like there hasn't been a real TEAM in ages, like in :ronan::teyla::sheppard::mckay: ... you know... THE team. Elizabeth, Carson, Zelenka, Lorne, Kate, Chuck, ... all also part of THE team but I have feeling they're not the ones we're talking about here.


.: You see, not REAL team in ages. The last time there was the 'real' team was Sunday which also brought the feeling of 'team' and 'family' to an abrupt end. It got way worse with FS and Doppelganger.

.: There's offworld team, which is mainly :sheppard::ronan::teyla::mckay: But without the other half, they fall flat.

.: SGA is suffering from wonky chemistry just like TPTB's brains might be suffering from.

Lythisrose
April 15th, 2008, 01:11 PM
I have to be honest, the main reason I watch SGA is Shep. For me, it started with the very first episode when it seemed that this was a show about Sheppard and his team, and their adventures in Atlantis and the Pegasus Galaxy. So every time there is an episode where he is not featured, I feel like it is a diversion from the main story they are trying to tell. I don't mind once in a while, that they focus on the others, I love the character development. But then I want them to get back to Shep/Team and the impact they have on their world. I hate to be pessimistic but I hope this lack of news concerning Shep is not a reflection of the end-product, as I really do WANT to like SGA.

chensuu
April 16th, 2008, 12:16 PM
Anyone needing more proof that Atlantis has switched focus to being McKay centric rather than Sheppard and/or the team, need only read the description for The Shrine just posted on Gateworld.

Although it does have potential as a team episode, McKay is the primary focus for the 100th episode which promises great character development and plot. No big surprise there.

I love McKay but I'm kind of tired of episodes that deal with his deteriorating or accelerating mental state. This is an episode I would have loved to see for anyone else in the cast. At least that way it would have been unique.
:mckay::sheppard::teyla::ronan:

Naonak
April 16th, 2008, 12:29 PM
Anyone needing more proof that Atlantis has switched focus to being McKay centric rather than Sheppard and/or the team, need only read the description for The Shrine just posted on Gateworld.

Although it does have potential as a team episode, McKay is the primary focus for the 100th episode which promises great character development and plot. No big surprise there.

I love McKay but I'm kind of tired of episodes that deal with his deteriorating or accelerating mental state. This is an episode I would have loved to see for anyone else in the cast. At least that way it would have been unique.
:mckay::sheppard::teyla::ronan:
It's not the 100th episode...

chensuu
April 16th, 2008, 12:48 PM
It's not the 100th episode...

Oh, thank god! I'm getting ahead of myself.

Falcon Horus
April 16th, 2008, 12:54 PM
Yup, say bye-bye to team and hello to one-man show - Stargate McKay, set in the Pegasus Galaxy starring David Hewlett.

Tabula Rasa + Tao of Rodney = The Shrine

Let me look up the screentime and wordcount of both episodes and I'll give you a prediction of how much time the other characters will appear.

Jumper_One
April 16th, 2008, 01:05 PM
Yup, say bye-bye to team and hello to one-man show - Stargate McKay, set in the Pegasus Galaxy starring David Hewlett.

yup let's call it a one-man show or Stargate McKay. there's one ep that focuses on Rodney :eek: :rolleyes:


Tabula Rasa + Tao of Rodney = The Shrine

Let me look up the screentime and wordcount of both episodes and I'll give you a prediction of how much time the other characters will appear.

so? other eps will focus on them ;)

Listy
April 16th, 2008, 01:35 PM
I have to be honest, the main reason I watch SGA is Shep. For me, it started with the very first episode when it seemed that this was a show about Sheppard and his team, and their adventures in Atlantis and the Pegasus Galaxy. So every time there is an episode where he is not featured, I feel like it is a diversion from the main story they are trying to tell. I don't mind once in a while, that they focus on the others, I love the character development. But then I want them to get back to Shep/Team and the impact they have on their world. I hate to be pessimistic but I hope this lack of news concerning Shep is not a reflection of the end-product, as I really do WANT to like SGA.

ITA


Anyone needing more proof that Atlantis has switched focus to being McKay centric rather than Sheppard and/or the team, need only read the description for The Shrine just posted on Gateworld.

Although it does have potential as a team episode, McKay is the primary focus for the 100th episode which promises great character development and plot. No big surprise there.

I love McKay but I'm kind of tired of episodes that deal with his deteriorating or accelerating mental state. This is an episode I would have loved to see for anyone else in the cast. At least that way it would have been unique.
:mckay::sheppard::teyla::ronan:

I am usually a very happy and optimistic person and after this latest I am now thoroughly fed up! :( I do like McKay and I enjoyed Tao bt this story has been done and Sheppard is the reason I watch SGA. We have heard very little about Sheppard compared to the other charatersl, I hope this is just a lack of information and once we see S5 we see a decent amount of Shep if not I will be so sad.

Fenrir Foxz
April 16th, 2008, 01:38 PM
Yup, say bye-bye to team and hello to one-man show - Stargate McKay, set in the Pegasus Galaxy starring David Hewlett.

Tabula Rasa + Tao of Rodney = The Shrine

Let me look up the screentime and wordcount of both episodes and I'll give you a prediction of how much time the other characters will appear.

LoL... Can I get a copy of that :P

Pegasus_SGA
April 16th, 2008, 01:43 PM
I've always thought of the team as being the group of four that go off world on missions. So that would be Shep, McKay, Ronon and Teyla. Shep refers to them as 'being on his team'. The others are part of the expedition but not team members. Just my take on it though!

I guess the big problem with splitting those up and not having certain characters in an episode much is, if it's your fave character and he/she only has a couple of lines and the story isn't particularly your cup of tea...well, you're probably only going to watch that episode once maybe twice and that's it! (Blimey, that was a long sentence. Sure I should've put more full stops in there somewhere! :D). So, yes, team episodes are great but I'm happy to see other types of stories to...as long as they're all balanced out.

I really, really hope we get some more Sheppard spoilers soon though. It does seem to be a huge concern for a lot of people. I've noticed this thread has had a lot of interest (well done Peggy) ...lots of 'guests' viewing the thread. I hope they're some of TPTB. Please tell us some Sheppy good news soon guys!!

:)

Thanks hon, that's how I see it to Eli, the team for me consists of them, and the others are the extended family. :) Just as important, but not part of the 'core' so to speak. For me (though others may see it differently) Shep is the glue that holds the team in place, so when I don't see mention of him, I automatically think no team eps. I know we've got one in the Daedy variations, but I really didn't like the fact that last year we didn't have many teamy moments. Everyone seemed split up. I want them back together again. *stomps foot* Last year was different because of circumstances, this year, there's no real reason for the team to be seperated. Sorry, for me the team works together to achieve something, if they're all going off doing their own thing, then for me season 5 just won't work for me. I can't believe I just said that, but that's how i'm feeling at the moment.

Call it hiatus blues, but something doesn't feel right this year. :(



Me, I Wouldn't worry about Sheppard's absence in spoilers. There were some eps in the past which were focused on another character, but we had plenty of Sheppard in it, because, well, he is the lead character on the show.

Thus, I think we can expect Shep moments in S&R and:
- he will have to deal with Woolsey's leadership in The Seed
- JM said there will be good Sheppard-Ronon scenes in Broken Ties
- The Daealus Variations is a team ep (and Sheppard leads the team)
- Ghost in the Machine will deal with Weir and her group, Shep has strong ties with Elizabeth
- in Whispers, he and Beckett will be the stars
- JM said that the other characters beside McKay and Daniel will also have roles in the mid-season two parter
- we'll have a Sheppard whump ep in the back half, with possibly more backround story about the Lt. Col.

I appreciate you trying to cheer us up, I think the lack of spoilers is just compunding things. Last year we'd heard things. This year........ not so much. :( And to be honest I just got the feeling that Shep was just an 'add on' in whispers and that originally there were no plans for him to be in it. Don't ask why I don't know, just a feeling. As for the Shep whump ep... i'm even getting the feeling that that's gone out the window. Things have been really quiet on that front.

I'm still hoping that once we get news about the back half of S5 there will be more balance.


I'm a huge Shep fan and don't think any relationship has to damage any character if its well written and I'm kinda fed up hearing this same old argument. SGA will never do outright relationships with the main characters but maybe just hint at it and that's not gonna do any damage. Throwing hot babes at him won't help his character either, but that seems to be the only thing the writers can do for Shep these days. A nice friendship moment like in Sateda or where John and Teyla hug (which can be interpreted as Shippy by some fans if they so wish) is ten times better IMO than watching Shep turn into a fumbling teenager around woman.

The writers need to give Sheppard something meaty and turn his character into something more than the one dementional character he gets to portray most of the time. Joe Flanigan is totally underused on the show and I would rather see him get more deep and meaningful stuff and less screentime, then just be written into every episode as the hot guy who runs around with a gun. He needs something different and unique which delves into his character and where we actually learn something about the man. Being the hero shouldn't mean he's not allowed to show emotion and this bottling up of everything is getting old.

Sheppard needs to grow and to be given a chance to show what lies beneath that mask he wears, and the relationship between Sheppard and Teyla would be a perfect way of getting him to open up. Sheppard should be allowed to show emotion, it can be in private and it would be so welcome seeing something cause that steely control of his to waiver, and who better than Teyla or Ronon to witness this. No one is advocating he falls to pieces but considering the crap the guy has been through over the last few years it's becoming unbelievable that none of this can effect him or take it's toll.

So I do hope that the ptb have something good in store for us this season for Shep, but I'm not holding my breath. It looks like the writers are steering away from team eps in season 5, and giving us way too many fragmented stories with these new characters that I have absolutely no interest in at all. The ensemble cast and team are the reason I watch the show and this is where the focus should be placed for the show to grow and to keep fans interested. If the mix keeps getting diluted with all these new characters then the writers will end up developing none of them. The core of the show should the relationships between the main cast, and that doesn't mean that some have to have a hissy fit anytime some of them interact in a sligthly more intimate or friendly way.

Well said. I just don't understand why Shep can't get some of the good meaty stuff that Ronon and McKay seems to get, I mean it's not like he can't pull it off. I've just been reading about the spoilers for the shrine. And it just irked me that once again Rodney get's good stuff, while still no mention of Shep.... :mad: I love Rodney, but i'm finding myself getting frustraited know about all the good stuff other characters are getting. :(

I'm with you in that I watch for the ensemble, the team, but where is the team? JM said the Daedy ep is a team one, but given that it had to be spelled out as a team ep does not bode well.... maybe i'm becoming too cynical? :S


http://forum.gateworld.net/showpost.php?p=8068802&postcount=63

And yet another seemingly Shep-light ep. :(

I saw, stll don't get it.


Is he even still in this show? Good to see Jason and Rachel have scenes together.

I know, at least Teyla's got a mention. No remind me again who is the lead? His name is on the top of my lip.... ;)

PG15
April 16th, 2008, 01:54 PM
Shrine may be McKay focused, but it said right in the article that...


"It's a character study for practically everyone in the cast, and David gets to play as an actor in a very big way," Wright said.

Yeah, me not worried.

Falcon Horus
April 16th, 2008, 02:05 PM
yup let's call it a one-man show or Stargate McKay. there's one ep that focuses on Rodney :eek: :rolleyes:

And the other episodes, he'll take home half the screentime and 3/4 of the words.

Don't believe me? It's a trend since season 2.


so? other eps will focus on them ;)

Like I said half of those episodes are for McKay. I'm still waiting for the episode with no McKay in it.


LoL... Can I get a copy of that :P

Let me see...


Average screentime, a calculated guess of what might be others' screentime in the episode The Shrine.

(ToR + TR)/2 = The Shrine

JF/JS
314 Tao of Rodney
Time = 11m09s – 669s
406 Tabula Rasa
Time = 8m50s – 530s

The Shrine
Time = 10m00s - 600s

RL/TE
314 Tao of Rodney
Time = 3m02s – 182s
406 Tabula Rasa
Time = 7m04s – 424s

The Shrine
Time = 5m03s - 303s

JM/RD
314 Tao of Rodney
Time = 5m07s – 307s
406 Tabula Rasa
Time = 7m05s – 725s

The Shrine
Time = 8m36s - 516s

DH/RM
314 Tao of Rodney
Time = 26m20s – 1580s
406 Tabula Rasa
Time = 18m36s – 1116s

The Shrine
Time = 22m30s - 1348s

*****
Average wordcount, a calculated guess of what might be others' wordcount in the episode The Shrine.

(ToR + TR)/2 = The Shrine

JF/JS
314 Tao of Rodney
Words = 685
406 Tabula Rasa
Words = 449

The Shrine
Words = 567

RL/TE
314 Tao of Rodney
Words = 14
406 Tabula Rasa
Words = 476

The Shrine
Words = 245

JM/RD
314 Tao of Rodney
Words = 91
406 Tabula Rasa
Words = 448

The Shrine
Words = 270

DH/RM
314 Tao of Rodney
Words = 3514
406 Tabula Rasa
Words = 1250

The Shrine
Words = 2382

Disclaimer: Qaulity is better than quantity, but if there's no quantity there can also be no quality.

PG15
April 16th, 2008, 02:17 PM
Disclaimer: Qaulity is better than quantity, but if there's no quantity there can also be no quality.


I wouldn't say that. Look at Miller's Crossing (for Sheppard).

Unless quantity = 0...but even then, the body language/facial expressions can prove very effective, like The Last Man when Shep saw that the ocean had dried up.

A TV show isn't meant for such statistical analysis, at least none that really means anything other than the bare facts.

Falcon Horus
April 16th, 2008, 02:24 PM
Unless quantity = 0...but even then, the body language/facial expressions can prove very effective, like The Last Man when Shep saw that the ocean had dried up.

The disclaimer I used, about quality/quantity also goes for screentime... Miller's Crossing - JF had 10 minutes, to show his emotional self and a little bit else. DH was given 25 minutes.


A TV show isn't meant for such statistical analysis, at least none that really means anything other than the bare facts.

Afraid I can easily show you who is really the leading guy, and that the rest is slowly/greatly falling behind. :p

Aussie_Fan
April 16th, 2008, 02:29 PM
Yup, say bye-bye to team and hello to one-man show - Stargate McKay, set in the Pegasus Galaxy starring David Hewlett.

Tabula Rasa + Tao of Rodney = The Shrine



Well they're getting desperate aren't they? The characters have been writen to this point were nothing's working out anymore and instead of trying to fix the problem, tptb are just focusing on what works. McKay, Keller and all these new characters being brought into the mix.

Reiko
April 16th, 2008, 02:34 PM
Afraid I can easily show you who is really the leading guy, and that the rest is slowly/greatly falling behind. :p

.: Do you have mcbarr's charts? Because I only have my scatters, and that is not represented very well

http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff239/Reiko_Afterglow/Graphs/sga-s3-scatter.jpg

.: I love Rodney but maybe he should go in a coma for a few episodes...

Falcon Horus
April 16th, 2008, 02:37 PM
.: Do you have mcbarr's charts?

They should be around... I don't have them. I only have an exell document made by Paris but it isn't up-to-date yet. And I still have 5 episodes to do in season 4... 415 - Outcast, all the way to 420 - The Last Man.

Reiko
April 16th, 2008, 02:44 PM
instead of trying to fix the problem, tptb are just focusing on what works. McKay, Keller and all these new characters being brought into the mix.

.: Which leads to our second problem. It doesn't work :)


They should be around... I don't have them. I only have an exell document made by Paris but it isn't up-to-date yet. And I still have 5 episodes to do in season 4... 415 - Outcast, all the way to 420 - The Last Man.

.: Are you counting Keller time too? Because Carson's wasn't tallied in the first season and I've started those :D

Falcon Horus
April 16th, 2008, 02:47 PM
.: Are you counting Keller time too? Because Carson's wasn't tallied in the first season and I've started those :D


I am. :)

PG15
April 16th, 2008, 02:52 PM
The disclaimer I used, about quality/quantity also goes for screentime... Miller's Crossing - JF had 10 minutes, to show his emotional self and a little bit else. DH was given 25 minutes.

But that's my point. Even though McKay had more screentime, the most impacting stuff in the episode no doubt (at least, IMHO) came from those 10 minutes involving Shep. All those numbers tell you exactly, and nothing more, than what you just put in your post right there. Anything about what those minutes involved are lost.


Afraid I can easily show you who is really the leading guy, and that the rest is slowly/greatly falling behind. :p

Irrelevant. Just because the guy's the leading man doesn't mean squat about the quality of his screentime, just that he has an overall better probability of getting better stuff.

Pegasus_SGA
April 16th, 2008, 02:53 PM
No offence FH, but for me STATS don't really say a lot. If I watch an ep, I look to the interactions of the team. How often they're together, how many times they're apart. I'm not doubting your figures, but for me the eps are more than words on a page. It's facial expressions, how they gel together. The storylines and arc's they have as individuals and collectively.

Most of the eps in S4 that I enjoyed would be classed as team eps. DG, TR, BAMSR, Midway. While the focus may have been on certain characters within those eps, the feel of the team was still very evident. Each of them working together. Where as eps like Quarantine fell short of the mark, because while they were all working towards a common goal, it wasn't uniformed. Does that make sense? I'm a bit oxygen deprived at the moment. :lol:

Naonak
April 16th, 2008, 03:04 PM
:rolleyes:

Well they're getting desperate aren't they? The characters have been writen to this point were nothing's working out anymore and instead of trying to fix the problem, tptb are just focusing on what works. McKay, Keller and all these new characters being brought into the mix.
Oh, come on, they're hardly focusing on those things...
Rodney's got The Shrine and Tracker, Keller's got Tracker and probably The Seed... Tracker also featuring Ronon heavily. And "all these new characters" are in Whispers, which also features a healthy dosage of Carson and Sheppard.

McKay having a higher wordcount doesn't necessarily mean anything, when you consider how much the guy talks...

And, hey, from what we've heard Rodney's not even in Whispers.

Falcon Horus
April 16th, 2008, 03:20 PM
But that's my point. Even though McKay had more screentime, the most impacting stuff in the episode no doubt (at least, IMHO) came from those 10 minutes involving Shep. All those numbers tell you exactly, and nothing more, than what you just put in your post right there. Anything about what those minutes involved are lost.

Frak, I forgot what I was going to say... Oh, I remember... I think it all depends on who you like most. If you are a Sheppard fan than 10 minutes of those highly emotional stuff like in MC seem more than enough... The dude has a way with showing emotions, his face is like a book without words in those cases.

Time and words don't matter... I don't really care about it anymore, it's a hobby, call me insane whatever (it is insane, I know :p) ... but somewhere in my facts there is a hidden feeling of favoritism towards certain characters, no matter the way you interpret these numbers. They're like ratings... interpret the way you like to see them... One side sees bad ratings, another side is raving about them. Same about my stats, I only offer a statistical view.


McKay having a higher wordcount doesn't necessarily mean anything, when you consider how much the guy talks...

Still, doesn't give TPTB the right to give him more lines than anyone else... though I suspect the techno-babble can't come any shorter.
David can talk fast, though, gotta admit to that. :p


And, hey, from what we've heard Rodney's not even in Whispers.

Oh, he'll be in it... They want him to complain to Sheppard that the latter gets to go off-world with the all-female team. Just like in Travelers, when they're sitting around the table.

Naonak
April 16th, 2008, 03:34 PM
Oh, he'll be in it... They want him to complain to Sheppard that the latter gets to go off-world with the all-female team. Just like in Travelers, when they're sitting around the table.
Hmm. Quite possible, although considering that one or more of them are likely to die it could be too inappropriate even for Rodney.
Still, it's hardly meaningful stuff.

Falcon Horus
April 16th, 2008, 03:37 PM
Still, it's hardly meaningful stuff.

But he's still there... which means I would still be waiting for an episode with no Rodney, none whatsoever... no mention, no cameo in the background, no Rodney... only his 4 seconds in the opening credits.

Naonak
April 16th, 2008, 03:50 PM
But he's still there... which means I would still be waiting for an episode with no Rodney, none whatsoever... no mention, no cameo in the background, no Rodney... only his 4 seconds in the opening credits.
So far, the same goes for John... :p

Falcon Horus
April 16th, 2008, 03:52 PM
So far, the same goes for John... :p

True...

Jumper_One
April 16th, 2008, 04:12 PM
And the other episodes, he'll take home half the screentime and 3/4 of the words.

you don't know that


Don't believe me? It's a trend since season 2.

even if you're right, so what?


Like I said half of those episodes are for McKay. I'm still waiting for the episode with no McKay in it.

he'll appear in every ep. Rodney and Shep were and still are the leading characters of Atlantis


Well they're getting desperate aren't they? The characters have been writen to this point were nothing's working out anymore and instead of trying to fix the problem, tptb are just focusing on what works. McKay, Keller and all these new characters being brought into the mix.

actually no they're not




.: Which leads to our second problem. It doesn't work :)

this is of course your opinion but apparently a lot of people disagree with you

Falcon Horus
April 16th, 2008, 04:20 PM
you don't know that

I only have to look at the past seasons to know what I'll be seeing in the next... there hasn't been much of a change, even if I hadn't seen the numbers.


even if you're right, so what?

So what? So what nothing... Maybe I should write a book afterwards. :p


he'll appear in every ep. Rodney and Shep were and still are the leading characters of Atlantis

So what? Sometimes leading characters have to make room for secondaries so that they have a chance to shine.

Jumper_One
April 16th, 2008, 04:24 PM
I only have to look at the past seasons to know what I'll be seeing in the next... there hasn't been much of a change, even if I hadn't seen the numbers.

I'm not disagreeing with you but it's still speculation


So what? So what nothing... Maybe I should write a book afterwards. :p

LOL :P


So what? Sometimes leading characters have to make room for secondaries so that they have a chance to shine.

of course ie Shep in Trio, Rodney in Travelers

Falcon Horus
April 16th, 2008, 04:32 PM
of course ie Shep in Trio, Rodney in Travelers

That's not sometimes, those are the odd ones out... :S

Reiko
April 16th, 2008, 04:45 PM
this is of course your opinion but apparently a lot of people disagree with you

.: Shouldn't 'but' be 'because'? Or a lot of people agree with me :P (also true)

Jumper_One
April 16th, 2008, 04:54 PM
That's not sometimes, those are the odd ones out... :S

I know but that's just the way it is. both are leading characters, they have to appear in every ep even if it's just for a minute




.: Shouldn't 'but' be 'because'?

LOL yeah I suppose so. sorry I'm a little tired :o


Or a lot of people agree with me :P (also true)

of course. however if you check out the numbers, s4.5 has had more viewers than s3.0, s3.5 and s4.0 so the majority is happy :)

parisindy
April 16th, 2008, 04:56 PM
OMG that is so bogus!

Falcon Horus
April 16th, 2008, 05:01 PM
I know but that's just the way it is.

Hold it right there, young man... *Jumper_One glances back "Who me?"* ... "Just the way it is"... it's up to TPTB to change that way, if they really want to, but it doesn't look like it... anyway, this is as much on the topic of team. If you can't or won't dial your 'leading characters' back a notch or two, how in whatever goddesses' (or god's) name can you have a team operate as a team?

Jumper_One
April 16th, 2008, 05:11 PM
Hold it right there, young man... *Jumper_One glances back "Who me?"* ... "Just the way it is"... it's up to TPTB to change that way, if they really want to, but it doesn't look like it...

of course it's up to TBTB but why change something that worked well in the past?


anyway, this is as much on the topic of team. If you can't or won't dial your 'leading characters' back a notch or two, how in whatever goddesses' (or god's) name can you have a team operate as a team?

I agree that there were less team eps in s4 but we still don't know much about s5, nothing is set in stone. btw goddesses? I think you've been watching too much BSG :P

Wilson3Girl
April 16th, 2008, 06:13 PM
No offence FH, but for me STATS don't really say a lot. If I watch an ep, I look to the interactions of the team. How often they're together, how many times they're apart. I'm not doubting your figures, but for me the eps are more than words on a page. It's facial expressions, how they gel together. The storylines and arc's they have as individuals and collectively.
Most of the eps in S4 that I enjoyed would be classed as team eps. DG, TR, BAMSR, Midway. While the focus may have been on certain characters within those eps, the feel of the team was still very evident. Each of them working together. Where as eps like Quarantine fell short of the mark, because while they were all working towards a common goal, it wasn't uniformed. Does that make sense? I'm a bit oxygen deprived at the moment. :lol:

Nice post! I agree. It's the team that I tune in to see, but most especially Shep and McKay. People get upset when they don't see their favorites, and I understand that, but I'm not going to jump the gun on this one yet. I was very upset last summer when I heard that Amanda Tapping was coming over to SGA. I love Amanda! I love Sam! I just didn't think she belonged in Atlantis. I worried she'd take Shep's job as team leader. I worried that she'd reduce Rodney to a prattling piece of jello over her looks. I worried that she'd take valuable screen time away from Zelenka. I worried she'd take Elizabeth's job. All that worry was for naught (oops, except for that last part......) and I felt like a fool once the season actually aired and I found that she fit in quite nicely, yvmv. So until I don't see Shep's sweet little ol' self galavanting around the galaxy with Rodney, Ronon and Teyla in tow, I'm hanging on to my worries this time. I mean it. This time I really am. Seriously. I'm not kidding.

Wilson3Girl

EdenSG
April 16th, 2008, 07:08 PM
While I do understand some of the reasoning behind having many season 4 eps deal almost entirely with only one or two main characters – because of RL’s pregnancy, DH & JM on Daddy watch – and I really don’t mind a few eps like this, I do feel like it got a bit redundant or maybe a better word is overdone during the latter half of season 4.

I am hoping in season 5 we get to see more (not all, just a few more) team (off-world team) eps.

I agree with the posters that say quality, not quantity is most important. One thing I look for are the eps that really challenge a character, makes the character more vulnerable either emotionally or physically so you can see aspects of the characters personality and/or have the character behave/respond in a way that normally you would not see. I think it can make the character more interesting and give them more depth. To me this is one of the things that makes a character ep a good one. Of course this can happen in just one scene in an ep or have the entire ep devoted to it.

I am okay with the fact that each of the main characters can have an episode devoted to them, but I would like to see those eps fairly distributed, both in number and quality. And I would like to see Sheppard get an episode along the same lines that DH has had with Tao and now seemingly The Shrine and as TH had with TRW. As an actor, and leading man, I think JF deserves it and as a character it is overdo. And I will likely be disappointed if it doesn’t happen.

While I share some of the concerns that we have not seen any spoilers for an ep like this for Sheppard yet I am not too distressed about it yet. There have not really been a lot of spoilers and the season is not over, nor entirely written yet.


.

Briangate78
April 16th, 2008, 07:09 PM
From the looks of the first half, there will be a lot of team eps.

Reiko
April 16th, 2008, 08:18 PM
of course. however if you check out the numbers, s4.5 has had more viewers than s3.0, s3.5 and s4.0 so the majority is happy :)

.: Like I've said before, I don't really trust what the ratings say :o


OMG that is so bogus!

.: I love how direct you are Paris :P

Falcon Horus
April 17th, 2008, 03:59 AM
...btw goddesses? I think you've been watching too much BSG :P

Only seen season 1 and season 2 (except for the last 4 episodes)... It's something I use, not in relation to BSG though... And I really need to start catching up on BSG.

Jumper_One
April 17th, 2008, 11:38 AM
.: Like I've said before, I don't really trust what the ratings say :o

I was talking about viewers. did you trust the ratings during s1, 2 or 3? even if you're right we can still compare the numbers of s3.5 with s4.5


Only seen season 1 and season 2 (except for the last 4 episodes)... It's something I use, not in relation to BSG though... And I really need to start catching up on BSG.

oh ok. have fun ;)

<snip>

Skydiver
April 18th, 2008, 04:23 AM
we already have a thread devoted to ratings, so please keep the off topic stuff out of here.

This thread is to be about Shep and the Team in season 5, not ratings in seasons that have already aired

Southern Red
April 18th, 2008, 04:55 AM
So now that JM has cleared up the little Shep situation on his blog by saying he don't know nothing 'bout no Shepisodes cause he don't write 'em. we can give this a big nevermind and go back to singing the praises of TPTB. Hello? Anybody with me? ;)

And another thing. A comment on the blog informs him ever so helpfully that some of us GW nuts have been over here misquoting Joe Flanigan and present this quote from the magazine to prove it.

The truth is, the show has changed pretty dramatically from where we started to where we're at now-for the better.

But interestingly enough, if you go on to read the rest of that paragraph you find out he is talking about the process of filming, camera angles , style etc. Not plot or characters.

He also says in talking about how Shep has progressed: Spoiler for length.The only way to really have the character progress is you have to go to check out his back-story. He's the lead of the show and we haven't talked about any back story! I had really high hopes when we first started the show that we would be exploring a lot of things, and watching the character go through a number of things. I've had to sit back and not worry about that too much. The writers have so much on their plate sometimes, that getting them to simply service your character is a challenge.I'm not sure that is their particular skill anyway. I think their skill lies primarily in the promotion of complex sci-fi plotlines, more than human development. So the only way to inject that kind of humanity is in moments, as opposed to scripted scenes, and then you just hope it doesn't get edited out. That cast has done a remarkable job, you know, really creating a lot of humanity in the characters that isn't necessarily evident on paper. I give a lot of credit to the cast. I think they are a critical part of the success of the show, absolutely critical.

Based on this quote, one can logically draw the conclusion that he is frustrated by lack of development for his character. Nobody ever said he was not happy in general.

Falcon Horus
April 18th, 2008, 04:59 AM
That makes sense... I had my doubts there after reading the article. It seems my mind wasn't with me while I was doing so.

jelgate
April 18th, 2008, 05:12 AM
That makes sense... I had my doubts there after reading the article. It seems my mind wasn't with me while I was doing so.

Thats me 75% of the time. It doesn't surprise me. It seems like as character episodes is following close to the same format as last season.

Briangate78
April 18th, 2008, 06:19 AM
Thats me 75% of the time. It doesn't surprise me. It seems like as character episodes is following close to the same format as last season.

Is that a bad thing?

Mitchell82
April 18th, 2008, 07:36 AM
Gee why all of a sudden has ths turned into an anti Shep and Mckay thread? I agree that in general the best ep are team eps however eps like Trio, Outcast, Harmony, Quarantine, Tabula Rasa, Missing and Travelers were also very good. It doesn't matter if it is a full team ep or focused on one or two certain team members if the story is good. So far tptb have shown that they can do that and have shown a good balance between team and character centric eps IMO.

Briangate78
April 18th, 2008, 07:45 AM
we already have a thread devoted to ratings, so please keep the off topic stuff out of here.

This thread is to be about Shep and the Team in season 5, not ratings in seasons that have already aired

Sorry Sky, just challenging something that is not true, since I know the final numbers.

Back on topic. I think Joe M was great to post that reassurance in his blog. Like I posted in the Joe M Blog discussion thread, The last 4 eps delivered for me of Season 4 like Joe M said they would. So I have the utter most confidence in Joe and his team. I was upset about Weir being written out or whatnot, but i've gotten over it, because the show just got so much better and daring.

Sheppard is the Jack O'neill of Atlantis. He will never be side-lined or thrown to the background. The character who have their eps will still put John Sheppard in the middle and it will influence his character. Like Joe M said about "The Shrine". Remember Miller's Crossing? That episode was really Mckay focused, but it brought out a darker side of Sheppard, that to me is excellent writing. I hope we get more eps like that. I think we will.

Mitchell82
April 18th, 2008, 07:48 AM
Sorry Sky, just challenging something that is not true, since I know the final numbers.

Back on topic. I think Joe M was great to post that reassurance in his blog. Like I posted in the Joe M Blog discussion thread, The last 4 eps delivered for me of Season 4 like Joe M said they would. So I have the utter most confidence in Joe and his team. I was upset about Weir being written out or whatnot, but i've gotten over it, because the show just got so much better and daring.

Sheppard is the Jack O'neill of Atlantis. He will never be side-lined or thrown to the background. The character who have their eps will still put John Sheppard in the middle and it will influence his character. Like Joe M said about "The Shrine". Remember Miller's Crossing? That episode was really Mckay focused, but it brought out a darker side of Sheppard, that to me is excellent writing. I hope we get more eps like that. I think we will.
Agreed. JM delivered in more ways than one with season 4 IMO. Season 4 has been one hell of a season and I have no doubt season 5 will be as well.

Southern Red
April 18th, 2008, 08:41 AM
Sorry Sky, just challenging something that is not true, since I know the final numbers.

Back on topic. I think Joe M was great to post that reassurance in his blog. Like I posted in the Joe M Blog discussion thread, The last 4 eps delivered for me of Season 4 like Joe M said they would. So I have the utter most confidence in Joe and his team. I was upset about Weir being written out or whatnot, but i've gotten over it, because the show just got so much better and daring.

Sheppard is the Jack O'neill of Atlantis. He will never be side-lined or thrown to the background. The character who have their eps will still put John Sheppard in the middle and it will influence his character. Like Joe M said about "The Shrine". Remember Miller's Crossing? That episode was really Mckay focused, but it brought out a darker side of Sheppard, that to me is excellent writing. I hope we get more eps like that. I think we will.

Or you could say that in Miller's Crossing even when Shep was having his moment to shine, it was still all about Rodney. And I haven't heard anything about S5 that makes me think it won't still be all about Rodney. Like I said before somewhere *???* it's like the old joke, "but enough about me, let's talk about what you think about me."

Of course Sheppard is all over the place. He's the star. We have to at least see his face in every episode. But even when they are about him, e.g. Epiphany, Outcast, Common Ground, they aren't completely about him. Epiphany came close, and CG was an excellent episode but as much about introducing Todd as about Sheppard. Outcast was only half and half. Doppelganger sounded like it would be about Shep but turned out to be about the team. It's time we learned more about his background, what makes him like he is, how he thinks, yadda yadda. And not just in relation to the rest of the team.

I like the character episodes too. I think this whole team team team mantra is bogus, but it seems most people want SGA to be more like SG-1. And now that they are dropping the ATA gene mythology, it looks like that's the direction in which they are heading.

Lythisrose
April 18th, 2008, 08:53 AM
And now that they are dropping the ATA gene mythology, it looks like that's the direction in which they are heading.

That's very disappointing to me, I always thought they should explore this aspect of Sheppard's character. :(

jenks
April 18th, 2008, 08:54 AM
ATA gene mythology? It's just a trait passed on from Ancients that interbred with our ancestors, that's all.

Naonak
April 18th, 2008, 10:03 AM
ATA gene mythology? It's just a trait passed on from Ancients that interbred with our ancestors, that's all.
Yeah... I don't understand why people are making a big deal out of it. What more is there to explore with it...?

Southern Red
April 18th, 2008, 10:12 AM
Yeah... I don't understand why people are making a big deal out of it. What more is there to explore with it...?

Isn't the whole reason Sheppard is on this mission because of the gene? I expected to see him using it for more than turning on lights and flying the jumper. Maybe I'm naive, but I thought we would see more of a connection between him and the city. After all this is SciFi, they could have gone in all kinds of directions up to and including making the city almost sentient or having a way for him to communicate directly with the city's computers through the gene. It would have made him more interesting and opened up all sorts of possible stories.

I also was hoping for actual exploration of the city which could have involved the discovery of fascinating alien/ancient technology. But instead we get yet more planet of the week stories and lame interaction between characters that are getting more boring by the day. Could it be that some of us who are disappointed just expected too much?

Briangate78
April 18th, 2008, 10:16 AM
Isn't the whole reason Sheppard is on this mission because of the gene? I expected to see him using it for more than turning on lights and flying the jumper. Maybe I'm naive, but I thought we would see more of a connection between him and the city. After all this is SciFi, they could have gone in all kinds of directions up to and including making the city almost sentient or having a way for him to communicate directly with the city's computers through the gene. It would have made him more interesting and opened up all sorts of possible stories.

I also was hoping for actual exploration of the city which could have involved the discovery of fascinating alien/ancient technology. But instead we get yet more planet of the week stories and lame interaction between characters that are getting more boring by the day. Could it be that some of us who are disappointed just expected too much?

Discovery and exploration of the City? You'll love the episode "CSI Atlantis". :)

Southern Red
April 18th, 2008, 10:20 AM
Discovery and exploration of the City? You'll love the episode "CSI Atlantis". :)

Don't try to lure me to the darkside, Brian.

Briangate78
April 18th, 2008, 10:25 AM
Don't try to lure me to the darkside, Brian.

SR, would I ever do that? Pssst, we have cookies. ;) :p

Linzi
April 18th, 2008, 10:28 AM
Don't try to lure me to the darkside, Brian.
I quite fancy the darkside, though I don't expect it's quite what Brian had in mind! ;) *Imagines Shep going all dark*

Briangate78
April 18th, 2008, 10:29 AM
I quite fancy the darkside, though I don't expect it's quite what Brian had in mind! ;) *Imagines Shep going all dark*

Sheppard is going to have a great Season, next season, imo. :)

Linzi
April 18th, 2008, 10:56 AM
Sheppard is going to have a great Season, next season, imo. :)
Well, I hope so, Brian. I was very impressed with him in season 4. I can't fault season 4 in that respect. Well, ok, maybe there wasn't a massive Sheppy whump eppie, but I'm being a bit picky there!

I was concerned about season 5 for Shep. I don't deny it. I lost my faith. However, I am feeling more reassured now. I'm glad to be feeling positive again. I really hate negativity. It's not who I am really. But, I look forward to Shep and the team cautiously in season 5 :)

Southern Red
April 18th, 2008, 11:30 AM
SR, would I ever do that? Pssst, we have cookies. ;) :p

And now you're trying to get me fat. Are they chocolate?

As long as CSI:Atlantis doesn't turn out to be Shep trying to find out why Rodney had an allergic reaction to Shep's new aftershave something he ate off world before Rodney dies a horrible death, I'm good. Or actually, you can remove Rodney and insert Teyla in that plot summary also. Ronon, I'm okay with. Or Carson. Or Zelenka. Maybe even Woolsey. Maybe.

Fenrir Foxz
April 18th, 2008, 11:35 AM
Don't try to lure me to the darkside, Brian.

Brian is not a servant of the darkside :P


SR, would I ever do that? Pssst, we have cookies. ;) :p

Yay cookies! :D

Jumper_One
April 18th, 2008, 11:56 AM
Brian is not a servant of the darkside :P

:indeed:


Yay cookies! :D

:D
http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee163/Jumper_One/cookie.jpg

Fenrir Foxz
April 18th, 2008, 11:58 AM
:D
http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee163/Jumper_One/cookie.jpg

Nice! :cool:

jelgate
April 18th, 2008, 02:07 PM
Well, I hope so, Brian. I was very impressed with him in season 4. I can't fault season 4 in that respect. Well, ok, maybe there wasn't a massive Sheppy whump eppie, but I'm being a bit picky there!

I was concerned about season 5 for Shep. I don't deny it. I lost my faith. However, I am feeling more reassured now. I'm glad to be feeling positive again. I really hate negativity. It's not who I am really. But, I look forward to Shep and the team cautiously in season 5 :)

Foolish TPTB. They forget to please the whumpers. Now the world will implode:eek::P

Falcon Horus
April 18th, 2008, 02:13 PM
They forget to please the whumpers. Now the world will implode:eek::P

That might just happen, who knows. :cool:

Reiko
April 18th, 2008, 02:24 PM
So now that JM has cleared up the little Shep situation on his blog by saying he don't know nothing 'bout no Shepisodes cause he don't write 'em. we can give this a big nevermind and go back to singing the praises of TPTB. Hello? Anybody with me? ;)


.: I am! :D


Is that a bad thing?

.: Yes. Very, very bad. :P Seriously, though.

.: I thought you guys had pizza ... we're the ones with the cookies and saskatoon pie :P

Killdeer
April 18th, 2008, 02:27 PM
While I certainly do feel better about Sheppard in S5 since JM's blog entry, it doesn't entirely take away my unease. It's true that Sheppard, for all his screentime, is not that developed as far as backstory and motivations. I love Sheppard - most of the time I have a very hard time deciding between him or Rodney as my favorite. But it would be nice to have Sheppard get a "character study" type episode like Rodney has gotten. Outcast could have been that, but while it wasn't a bad episode, was big on the action and very VERY skimpy on the backstory and motivations.

Fenrir Foxz
April 18th, 2008, 02:36 PM
.: I thought you guys had pizza ... we're the ones with the cookies and saskatoon pie :P

We have cake too ;) :P :cool:

Linzi
April 18th, 2008, 02:50 PM
While I certainly do feel better about Sheppard in S5 since JM's blog entry, it doesn't entirely take away my unease. It's true that Sheppard, for all his screentime, is not that developed as far as backstory and motivations. I love Sheppard - most of the time I have a very hard time deciding between him or Rodney as my favorite. But it would be nice to have Sheppard get a "character study" type episode like Rodney has gotten. Outcast could have been that, but while it wasn't a bad episode, was big on the action and very VERY skimpy on the backstory and motivations.
ITA. :)

I enjoyed Outcast very much. But I'd love a character study of Sheppard too. :)

Falcon Horus
April 18th, 2008, 02:54 PM
The day Teyla gets a character-study episode, I'll... be old and grey and SGA will have been cancelled long before that time.

jelgate
April 18th, 2008, 04:07 PM
The day Teyla gets a character-study episode, I'll... be old and grey and SGA will have been cancelled long before that time.

Lets back up for a second (please) and see what you define a character study.

Falcon Horus
April 18th, 2008, 04:12 PM
Lets back up for a second (please) and see what you define a character study.

The sort that's always going to McKay... for example The Shrine now.