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View Full Version : Rodney McKay - The Weakest Link



ykickamoocow
April 2nd, 2008, 05:26 AM
One of the great things about Stargate SG1 was the interaction between the members of SG1 and how they were all very good friends and would each give their life to save their teammate.

The only thing wrong with Stargate Atlantis is the interaction between the 4 team members is not as good and i think McKay is the weak link.

Sheppard/Teyla - Friends
Sheppard/Ronon - Friends
Ronon/Teyla - Frends
Rodney/Sheppard - Maybe Friends

McKay on the other hand really isnt friends with any of them (Sheppard is debatable) as shown in the episodes "McKay and Mrs. Miller" where they are all opening laughing AT Mckay (not with) and the episode "Tao of Rodney" where they all discuss his weight in a very negative way.

The interaction with mcKay and the rest of the team is the only thing which is stopping those great team moments which were common in Stargate SG1 and it would be great to see the writers improve the relationship of McKay and the other characaters (especially Ronon and Teyla).

What i would love to see is a episode with McKay, Ronon and Teyla and get some serious growth with Teyla and Ronon getting to understand and appreciate McKay better. A episode with all 3 of them (no Sheppard) would be fantastic where all 3 of them have to rely on each other to survive.

To sum it up i hope that in season 5 the writers include some positive McKay and Ronon and McKay and Teyla moments as i think it will improve them overall team chemistry which at present is the only thing holding Atlantis back.

What do you all think?

gatechick
April 2nd, 2008, 06:18 AM
I agree that one of the best things, if not the best thing about SG-1 was the interaction between the team. Even the dullest eps, were made better by the intereaction of those 4. I think they were fortunate in that aspect to find 4 people with chemistry that just clicked. Even non stargate fans have commented on their chemistry.

I have long since been bothered by the fact that IMO, the flagship team of Atlantis lacks a great deal of chemistry. Although, I can say that they have improved somewhat. I do not think we will ever see a chemistry comparable to SG-1, and I do not expect to. I think this is a different show, and as such instead of a team that meshes well instantly, each of these characters is growing each season. Ronon's character seems to finally be feeling accepted and you can see that in the emotions he has shown in several eps. Teyla is Teyla. Shep I am still trying to figure out.

I would have agreed when Atlantis started out, that Rodney was the weakest link. His personality was grating, his lack of compassion was horrible, and he just was not a team player. Yet his character has grown so much. You can see David Hewlett expressing that as Rodney. When your character has seen so much it is bound to affect changes in a person. I like Rodney much better than I did at first. While I still find chemistry lacking in the show, perhaps we will gradually see it change as it is now. But then it is a different show.

Charon
April 2nd, 2008, 06:26 AM
Hey moocow, I will have to disagree on with that. True, Rodney lacks the personal skills to forge tight-knit friendships quickly, he is slowly making ground with his team even Radick(not sure about spelling). Ronan has already been seen kidding around with Mckay on more than one occasion and let's not forget he is also teaching him "the way of the stick". As for season 5 , like you I am counting the days.:)

Pandora's_Box
April 2nd, 2008, 06:43 AM
Or maybe this is simply a more realistic way of portraying four strong, independant people with four different personalities facing life-threatening situations everyday. I wouldn't expect them to get along all the time, or even like each other all the time, but when push comes to shove they have each other's backs and I think we've seen that on screen on numerous occasions.

As for the supposed lack of chemistry, maybe that's just personal opinion because I tend to disagree. Admittadely the team dynamic has suffered greatly, IMO, this past season. Maybe this had something to do with RL being pregnant and not being able to do all the scenes she would have been available for otherwise. Maybe that's the reason why we had a veritable lack of 'team' episodes this season (and if I'm wrong on that point than please correct me) in favour of episodes featuring one or two of the main cast (mid-season 2 parter and Kindred I/II aside).

Also, I don't see Rodney being the weak link in the team dynamic. Sure he's a petty, arrogant, condescending, brash, generally unpleasant person at the best of times, and can transform into a monster of a man when it's a matter of life or death, but I don't necessarily see this as meaning that he's spoiling the chemistry of the group. We've seen him have touching, caring, friendly moments with all the team members and when the team does happen to have a mission together (which seems to happen less and less often these days), we've seen them work well together. I think, though, that is essential to remember that we can't ask the writers to sacrifice the core of the character for the sake of warm, fuzzy moments and sarcastic yet friendly rejoinders.

Ronon is the strong, silent, stoic one of the bunch and he very rarely has patience for Rodney's tendency to dramaticise everything. Teyla is compassionate, understanding, and generally calm and we've seen her cut through Rodney's near-hysterical fits of techno-babble with soft words. John is also impatient but I also think he's the one that understands Rodney the best and I don't think it's fair or true to qualify them as, 'maybe friends'. It's been demonstrated otherwise on many occasions.

IMO, it's their differences of character and the moments of conflict that add depth to their dynamic and interactions as a team. This isn't meant to belittle the SG-1 dynamic in any way, but to say that they're two different ways to approach the 'team' concept. Different isn't necessarily worse or better, just different, and that liking one more than the other is simply a matter of preference.

thekillman
April 2nd, 2008, 07:57 AM
look. i think atlantis gets boring without mckay. he spices things up. i love it when sheppard once again comments about mckays arrogance.
sg1 is sg1. lets not make this a clone. sg1 is:
-the sg1 members
-base commander
-walter
-lee
-lot of military stiffheads.

atlantis is:
sheppards team
lorn
base commander
chuck.
radek.
keller
and a whole lot of friendly looking nice real people. no military stiffheads. its a family feel beyond sg1, and because of it, there is competition inbetween. having this family feel on every level would make it lame.

Reiko
April 2nd, 2008, 08:39 AM
.: I love Rodney, but ever since Elizabeth and Carson were offed the cast chemistry as a whole has been thrown off, and Rodney has suffered the most.

.: Hurt by cast changes? Definately. Weakest Link? I'm not sure. :S

Cory Holmes
April 2nd, 2008, 08:47 AM
.: I love Rodney, but ever since Elizabeth and Carson were offed the cast chemistry as a whole has been thrown off, and Rodney has suffered the most.

.: Hurt by cast changes? Definately. Weakest Link? I'm not sure. :S

Yeah, with the loss of Elizabeth, Rodney seems to have earned the Pegasus Galaxy's Official Wooby Mascot title, eh? I'm still floored by the way David Hewlett delivered that final scene in This Mortal Coil.

jenks
April 2nd, 2008, 09:14 AM
One of the great things about Stargate SG1 was the interaction between the members of SG1 and how they were all very good friends and would each give their life to save their teammate.

The only thing wrong with Stargate Atlantis is the interaction between the 4 team members is not as good and i think McKay is the weak link.

Sheppard/Teyla - Friends
Sheppard/Ronon - Friends
Ronon/Teyla - Frends
Rodney/Sheppard - Maybe Friends

McKay on the other hand really isnt friends with any of them (Sheppard is debatable) as shown in the episodes "McKay and Mrs. Miller" where they are all opening laughing AT Mckay (not with) and the episode "Tao of Rodney" where they all discuss his weight in a very negative way.

The interaction with mcKay and the rest of the team is the only thing which is stopping those great team moments which were common in Stargate SG1 and it would be great to see the writers improve the relationship of McKay and the other characaters (especially Ronon and Teyla).

What i would love to see is a episode with McKay, Ronon and Teyla and get some serious growth with Teyla and Ronon getting to understand and appreciate McKay better. A episode with all 3 of them (no Sheppard) would be fantastic where all 3 of them have to rely on each other to survive.

To sum it up i hope that in season 5 the writers include some positive McKay and Ronon and McKay and Teyla moments as i think it will improve them overall team chemistry which at present is the only thing holding Atlantis back.

What do you all think?

McKay is friends with all of them, but it'll just never be portrayed the way you want it to unless he loses the snark, which would be bad, imo.

MikeRasschaert
April 2nd, 2008, 11:40 AM
I think someone else said that Mckay lacked the personal skills to develop these kinds of bonds beyond their jobs. I think that with Rodney, they are showing another side of a team we didn't see in SG-1. In SG-1, they all got along and were friends with eachother.
In atlantis, John, Ronan, Teyla seem to accept Rodney's presence because he's an expert on technology and science all together. He's one of the guys that you have to work with, even though you don't really like them. That alone sets the team apart from SG-1.
Sure Jack got irritated at times with Daniel, but he respected him because he has come through for him at countless times. With Rodney, it is almost always another teammember that saves his life and not so much the other way around.

thekillman
April 2nd, 2008, 11:59 AM
yes. but they all owed daniel one, as he deciphered the gate system. mckay on the other hand.

when atlantis was developed, a character was being searched to fit in. in the end, they realized they already had such a character: mckay. unfortunately, he was portrayed as an arrogant ********. and he still is. but you cant make a guy social in a few years. it takes time. but still. SGA is playing around. SGA is being in a city, to discover the secrets of the ancients. SGA is being the earth foothold in pegasus. SGA is the beacon of hope for pegasus.SGA is the family feel on a city wide level, not on just four or five people. and that leads to competition. and competition increases productivity, quality, and the plot generation. mckay is smart and arrogant. thinking outside the box, and simultaniously thinking inside. hes always complainting, hungry, and a highly potent being when it comes to fun. sheppard is competitive aswell. there are many points at wich he competed with other SGA members. its about chilling out and having fun. these guys go through tenfold the horror SG1 faced. parasitical beings? life sucking monsters is much more traumatizing.

im happy with SGA, just as im happy with SG1. i appriciate eppys on two levels. i like it, or i love it. just as i appreciate the shows. if people continue whining about sga not being like sg1. i like sga. but the current sg1 in the mix is enough. although having annother ronon+tealc eppy would be great too.
but i say: let sga being as it is now. let it not be a sg1 ripoff or incarnation.
i like the competition. really. how lame it would be to have the team suddenly be family like? while they have been competetive for like 4 years and more. mckay is softening a bit. ok. shep is softening. everyone is. but it cant become an sg1 ripoff. or continuation.

Pegasus_SGA
April 2nd, 2008, 12:01 PM
One of the great things about Stargate SG1 was the interaction between the members of SG1 and how they were all very good friends and would each give their life to save their teammate.

The only thing wrong with Stargate Atlantis is the interaction between the 4 team members is not as good and i think McKay is the weak link.

Sheppard/Teyla - Friends
Sheppard/Ronon - Friends
Ronon/Teyla - Frends
Rodney/Sheppard - Maybe Friends

McKay on the other hand really isnt friends with any of them (Sheppard is debatable) as shown in the episodes "McKay and Mrs. Miller" where they are all opening laughing AT Mckay (not with) and the episode "Tao of Rodney" where they all discuss his weight in a very negative way.

The interaction with mcKay and the rest of the team is the only thing which is stopping those great team moments which were common in Stargate SG1 and it would be great to see the writers improve the relationship of McKay and the other characaters (especially Ronon and Teyla).

What i would love to see is a episode with McKay, Ronon and Teyla and get some serious growth with Teyla and Ronon getting to understand and appreciate McKay better. A episode with all 3 of them (no Sheppard) would be fantastic where all 3 of them have to rely on each other to survive.

To sum it up i hope that in season 5 the writers include some positive McKay and Ronon and McKay and Teyla moments as i think it will improve them overall team chemistry which at present is the only thing holding Atlantis back.

What do you all think?

Respectfully, I couldn't disagree more. :D

As Charon said, Mckay is pretty dysfunctional, and his social skills leave a lot to be desired. But that's him, that's his personality and he is getting better. Just because someone lacks those interpersonal skills on a day to day basis though, doesn't mean they're incapable of forging friendships and having chemistry. The team for me are like family and like any family they have their ups and their downs, they fight, moan and ***** about each other, yes, but so do many families. And when you're living in close knit quarters you do get on each others nerves. However, each one of them would give up their lives for the other. They have each others backs and yeah they tease each other, but how they act towards each other speaks volumes.

Take Miller's crossing for example, if Shep could really give a toss about McKay, do you really think he'd post a security guard to stop him, or tell him he couldn't feed himself to the wraith to save his sister? Or taking the time to go with him and help him find out what happened to his sister. People who don't like each other don't go to those kind of lengths. Also, let's look at Tao of Rodney, who helped him with his meditation? Would you go to those lengths if you didn't care? Would you support and care for them if they didn't really mean anything to you?

Staying on the theme of Tao of Rodney, and Vengeance. Ronon on both occasions is shown to care for Rodney, be it by helping him learn to fight, or carrying him to a chamber. Again it shows how much they mean to each other.

And what about Teyla? Mckay came to Teyla on several occasions with baby gifts, with the tea ceremony. Would he do it if he didn't have that connection with her? Would he buy a gift for the baby if they weren't friends? Would she confide in him about her fears if they weren't friends?

I could go on all day, but i'm trying to curb my enthusiasm. :P

The Suicidal Goldfish
April 2nd, 2008, 12:34 PM
Rodney is one of the best loved characters in Atlantis!

Exhibit One, Radek Zalenka - THE single most beat down, belittled and mocked individual, by RM, in Atlantis...yet who achieves the impossible to find McKay and overcomes his fear of being in an underwater jumper?

Come ON! Everyone loves Rodney!!!

:mckay:

rens14
April 2nd, 2008, 12:59 PM
they should have an episodes with ronon and rodney locked up or something else so that they have to talk and get along and use that in later episodes

Mitchell82
April 2nd, 2008, 01:06 PM
Hey moocow, I will have to disagree on with that. True, Rodney lacks the personal skills to forge tight-knit friendships quickly, he is slowly making ground with his team even Radick(not sure about spelling). Ronan has already been seen kidding around with Mckay on more than one occasion and let's not forget he is also teaching him "the way of the stick". As for season 5 , like you I am counting the days.:)
Agreed. He is not great at making friends but the team has developed a strong bond with each other.

Naonak
April 2nd, 2008, 01:07 PM
One of the great things about Stargate SG1 was the interaction between the members of SG1 and how they were all very good friends and would each give their life to save their teammate.

The only thing wrong with Stargate Atlantis is the interaction between the 4 team members is not as good and i think McKay is the weak link.

Sheppard/Teyla - Friends
Sheppard/Ronon - Friends
Ronon/Teyla - Frends
Rodney/Sheppard - Maybe Friends

McKay on the other hand really isnt friends with any of them (Sheppard is debatable) as shown in the episodes "McKay and Mrs. Miller" where they are all opening laughing AT Mckay (not with) and the episode "Tao of Rodney" where they all discuss his weight in a very negative way.

The interaction with mcKay and the rest of the team is the only thing which is stopping those great team moments which were common in Stargate SG1 and it would be great to see the writers improve the relationship of McKay and the other characaters (especially Ronon and Teyla).

What i would love to see is a episode with McKay, Ronon and Teyla and get some serious growth with Teyla and Ronon getting to understand and appreciate McKay better. A episode with all 3 of them (no Sheppard) would be fantastic where all 3 of them have to rely on each other to survive.

To sum it up i hope that in season 5 the writers include some positive McKay and Ronon and McKay and Teyla moments as i think it will improve them overall team chemistry which at present is the only thing holding Atlantis back.

What do you all think?
I've got to agree with jenks:

McKay is friends with all of them, but it'll just never be portrayed the way you want it to unless he loses the snark, which would be bad, imo.
I think calling John and Rodney "maybe friends" is possibly missing the point of their relationship. Their constant bickering and teasing is more like squabbling siblings than not really liking each other, which is also becoming true of McKay's relationship with Ronon, like the "Maybe I'll get you something" scene in The Kindred I. Friends, particularly guys, take the mick out of each other. It's not being mean, it's just what we do, especially with someone like Rodney.
Beyond that, there's plenty of examples of moments between John and Rodney showing how close they are - the stuff in Miller's Crossing, the scene at the beginning of Outcast, etc.

You used Tao as an example of them being mean, but I see that episode as the opposite. Once Rodney realises that he might die, he moves past snark and makes an effort to treat the others better - healing Ronon's scars, the tea ceremony with Teyla.

Linzi
April 2nd, 2008, 01:46 PM
Respectfully, I couldn't disagree more. :D

As Charon said, Mckay is pretty dysfunctional, and his social skills leave a lot to be desired. But that's him, that's his personality and he is getting better. Just because someone lacks those interpersonal skills on a day to day basis though, doesn't mean they're incapable of forging friendships and having chemistry. The team for me are like family and like any family they have their ups and their downs, they fight, moan and ***** about each other, yes, but so do many families. And when you're living in close knit quarters you do get on each others nerves. However, each one of them would give up their lives for the other. They have each others backs and yeah they tease each other, but how they act towards each other speaks volumes.

Take Miller's crossing for example, if Shep could really give a toss about McKay, do you really think he'd post a security guard to stop him, or tell him he couldn't feed himself to the wraith to save his sister? Or taking the time to go with him and help him find out what happened to his sister. People who don't like each other don't go to those kind of lengths. Also, let's look at Tao of Rodney, who helped him with his meditation? Would you go to those lengths if you didn't care? Would you support and care for them if they didn't really mean anything to you?

Staying on the theme of Tao of Rodney, and Vengeance. Ronon on both occasions is shown to care for Rodney, be it by helping him learn to fight, or carrying him to a chamber. Again it shows how much they mean to each other.

And what about Teyla? Mckay came to Teyla on several occasions with baby gifts, with the tea ceremony. Would he do it if he didn't have that connection with her? Would he buy a gift for the baby if they weren't friends? Would she confide in him about her fears if they weren't friends?

I could go on all day, but i'm trying to curb my enthusiasm. :P
ITA.

Rodney is many things. He's not perfect. But I know the team loves him....as friends love other friends! ;) He loves them right back, IMO. :)

Heaven
April 2nd, 2008, 01:51 PM
I disagree, I think the McKay-Sheppard friendship is the strongest

I think their interaction is the only thing that keeps this show going
cuz right now it's become pretty boring

I think the only interesting character in Atlantis with potential for stories is Ronon
so without the McKay Sheppard interaction to spice up some of the more boring stories the show would be dull as hell.

here's for more McKay-Sheppard in S5

Tekken Lord
April 2nd, 2008, 02:52 PM
If it wasn't for McKay i don't think i'd watch this show so i have to disagree with you. And i loved the team chemistry in sg1, but that was sg1 and this is atlantis.

Cory Holmes
April 2nd, 2008, 04:03 PM
Rodney is one of the best loved characters in Atlantis!

Exhibit One, Radek Zalenka - THE single most beat down, belittled and mocked individual, by RM, in Atlantis...yet who achieves the impossible to find McKay and overcomes his fear of being in an underwater jumper?

Come ON! Everyone loves Rodney!!!

:mckay:

I think Rodney's treatment of Zelenka has been beneficial to him. Consider how he was in early Season One and look at him now. Now he is able to stand up for himself and even slap Rodney down when he needs to (see Duet for evidence).

Of course, this is just evidence that Radek has the single largest case of Stockholm Syndrome seen in Atlantis :D

taffy rose
April 2nd, 2008, 04:19 PM
I disagree. I think McKay has really grown and become along with Shep, Teyla, and Ronon very important to the success of the series. I really enjoy McKay's humor and think he is often the unsung hero of the show !!
He can be annoying yet still endearing too and that's not easy to do and I think McKay is great at maintaining his originality and has become a compelling character:-)

Kimberly

Buck32
April 2nd, 2008, 04:58 PM
I disagree, I think the McKay-Sheppard friendship is the strongest

I think their interaction is the only thing that keeps this show going
cuz right now it's become pretty boring

I think the only interesting character in Atlantis with potential for stories is Ronon
so without the McKay Sheppard interaction to spice up some of the more boring stories the show would be dull as hell.

here's for more McKay-Sheppard in S5

I have to agree with you, but i think Rodney has come a long way since early SGA and even though he doesn't express it it the same way i get the feeling that he sees his team as very important to him, and his family so to speak.

Part of McKay's charm as a character is his social awkwardness , take that away and you loose some of the essence of his character. As one poster said it would be nice to have some more team moments in season 5 but not just for Rodney, for eveyone involved.

ykickamoocow
April 2nd, 2008, 08:37 PM
I just hope that the writers develop the relationships between McKay and Teyla and McKay and Ronon.

A good way to do this is a episode without Sheppard where McKay, Teyla and Ronon all go on a mission and then things go horribly wrong and all three must work together and use all of their skills to survive.

I know others will disagree with me but i never really get the impression that Ronon respects McKay (Teyla does) and it would be great to see moments in season 5 where Ronn gains a respect for McKay and the skills he brings to the team.

KindlyKeller
April 2nd, 2008, 08:58 PM
With Rodney, it is almost always another teammember that saves his life and not so much the other way around.

????? Say what?

Rodney saves the day in like EVERY episode.

KindlyKeller
April 2nd, 2008, 09:04 PM
I just hope that the writers develop the relationships between McKay and Teyla and McKay and Ronon.

A good way to do this is a episode without Sheppard where McKay, Teyla and Ronon all go on a mission and then things go horribly wrong and all three must work together and use all of their skills to survive.

I know others will disagree with me but i never really get the impression that Ronon respects McKay (Teyla does) and it would be great to see moments in season 5 where Ronn gains a respect for McKay and the skills he brings to the team.

I think Season 4 was a step back for Rodney and Ronon, after they had some really nice moments in "Tao of Rodney" and "Sunday."

the fifth man
April 2nd, 2008, 09:28 PM
I think Season 4 was a step back for Rodney and Ronon, after they had some really nice moments in "Tao of Rodney" and "Sunday."

To a certain extent, I'd have to agree with you.

Killdeer
April 2nd, 2008, 09:32 PM
Rodney/Sheppard - Maybe Friends

McKay on the other hand really isnt friends with any of them (Sheppard is debatable) as shown in the episodes "McKay and Mrs. Miller" where they are all opening laughing AT Mckay (not with) and the episode "Tao of Rodney" where they all discuss his weight in a very negative way.

I can't agree at all with the part of your post about Sheppard and McKay's friendship being debatable. IMO their relationship was far and away the most strongly portrayed relationship in S4 - I believe every single episode had at least a little something portraying just how strong the friendship is between the two of them and how much they rely on each other. And episodes like Doppelganger, Miller's Crossing, Quarantine, Midway, The Seer, The Last Man, Outcast - all of those showed to me just how strong that friendship is. I would argue that Sheppard and McKay are closer to each other than to any one else on Atlantis now that they've lost Elizabeth and Carson. And no, I don't mean that in a slashy sense. Yes, John cares for and watches out for Ronon and Teyla, and Rodney cares for them too. But only with each other did I see them relax a little bit and tease and joke. I think Elizabeth's loss forced them to drop maybe some of the competitiveness that they had previously displayed around her and just work together and start looking out for each other.


The interaction with mcKay and the rest of the team is the only thing which is stopping those great team moments which were common in Stargate SG1 and it would be great to see the writers improve the relationship of McKay and the other characaters (especially Ronon and Teyla).

What i would love to see is a episode with McKay, Ronon and Teyla and get some serious growth with Teyla and Ronon getting to understand and appreciate McKay better. A episode with all 3 of them (no Sheppard) would be fantastic where all 3 of them have to rely on each other to survive.

To sum it up i hope that in season 5 the writers include some positive McKay and Ronon and McKay and Teyla moments as i think it will improve them overall team chemistry which at present is the only thing holding Atlantis back.

What do you all think?


I do agree mostly with this part of your post. While there's been a little progress made with Ronon and Rodney's relationship, mostly toward the end of S3, Teyla and Rodney have had almost no time together, and I have very much been wishing for an episode with just Teyla and Rodney - something that would force them to work together and maybe understand each other more. I'm afraid if it were all three of them however it would end up being Ronon and Teyla against Rodney. I many times feel as though Teyla, and Ronon too sometimes, simply tolerate Rodney because he's a genius and can save their lives, and because he's John's friend. In Quarantine for example, John saw Rodney's earpiece lying on the table and realized that Rodney was locked in the biology lab. Teyla started to say "If he is in there..." and John cut her off "he's going to be freaking." She glanced at him and didn't finish, but I got the impression that's not what she had started to say - she was more likely going to say something like "then there is nothing he can do to help us." John's worried about how Rodney's handling this, Teyla (admittedly in my perception) is worried about who's going to get them out of this. A lot of times it feels like Rodney thinks he's best friends with all of them, but only John really cares about him in return - Teyla and Ronon both just tolerate him for the team's sake. Not always - there have been some good moments, especially with Ronon in the later part of S3, and the tea ceremony with Teyla in Tao, but too often I do get the feeling of a guy that thinks everyone likes him and really behind his back they're just wishing he would shut up and go away.

So yeah, I do agree that there is a weakness in how they have portrayed the relationship between Rodney and Ronon and Teyla. While I would never call him the weak link (I personally would not watch this show without him), I would agree that his strongest connection to the team is through John, and that is a team weakness that needs to be worked on by the writers. I don't think it was as obvious until this season because, well, Ronon and Teyla didn't get that much screentime. Elizabeth and Carson both took up more attention, and Rodney was close with both of them, so the lack of a close relationship with his team wasn't as apparent. It wasn't so much something that suddenly happened this year as something that had always been there but didn't become glaringly apparent until those two were removed.


I think Season 4 was a step back for Rodney and Ronon, after they had some really nice moments in "Tao of Rodney" and "Sunday."

I would completely agree with this.

Pandora's_Box
April 2nd, 2008, 09:38 PM
I just hope that the writers develop the relationships between McKay and Teyla and McKay and Ronon.

A good way to do this is a episode without Sheppard where McKay, Teyla and Ronon all go on a mission and then things go horribly wrong and all three must work together and use all of their skills to survive.

I know others will disagree with me but i never really get the impression that Ronon respects McKay (Teyla does) and it would be great to see moments in season 5 where Ronn gains a respect for McKay and the skills he brings to the team.

I'm going to have to disagree and say that's the last thing I want to happen in season 5. Personally, I think that we need more episodes with the team as a whole. All of them working together to achieve a common goal (one that often involves saving some lives). I don't think seperating the team some more (there was entirely too much of that in season 4 IMO) is the way to promote good team dynamic and chemistry.

As for Ronon lacking respect for McKay...I don't think TPTB are trying to portray that. At least I hope not and it's not what I'm getting on this end. Rodney has demonstrated on numerous, even countless, ocassion that he has a lot to offer the team and Atlantis. So he can't shoot guns or play at soldier like Sheppard and Ronon. That's fine. He isn't one. He's a scientist and I think he's played up that aspect of himself very well so far. I think the Atlantis expedition would be long dead, buried, and over if not for McKay.

Disregarding Ronon's ability to understand Rodney's contribution is a major disservice to the character, and one I don't think Ronon deserves. I think everybody on Atlantis is aware of Rodney's skills and contributions.

KindlyKeller
April 3rd, 2008, 01:13 AM
Yeah, regarding what killdeer said, the McKay/Sheppard friendship is rock-solid. While I've been openly annoyed on a few occasions with John for showing brief and unexpected bursts of contempt and cruelty, for the most part, he's been very good to Rodney and vice versa. I think it's a misnomer to say they're "maybe" friends; I think they're best friends.

One of the moments I keep going back to is in Tao of Rodney, when he's trying to make sure all of his relationships are set right -

McKay: We're okay... aren't we?
Sheppard: [look of shock] Of course we are.

Cory Holmes
April 3rd, 2008, 08:07 AM
While I've been openly annoyed on a few occasions with John for showing brief and unexpected bursts of contempt and cruelty, for the most part, he's been very good to Rodney and vice versa. I think it's a misnomer to say they're "maybe" friends; I think they're best friends.

It's a guy thing. You should hear some of the things that spew out my mouth in regards to my friends and brother. Plus, Sheppard and McKay are usually in life-and-death circumstances, so that's bound to put a strain on any patience reserves.

... plus, y'know... it's funny for the rest of us :D

McKaysLady
April 4th, 2008, 08:57 AM
One of the great things about Stargate SG1 was the interaction between the members of SG1 and how they were all very good friends and would each give their life to save their teammate.

The only thing wrong with Stargate Atlantis is the interaction between the 4 team members is not as good and i think McKay is the weak link.

Sheppard/Teyla - Friends
Sheppard/Ronon - Friends
Ronon/Teyla - Frends
Rodney/Sheppard - Maybe Friends

McKay on the other hand really isnt friends with any of them (Sheppard is debatable) as shown in the episodes "McKay and Mrs. Miller" where they are all opening laughing AT Mckay (not with) and the episode "Tao of Rodney" where they all discuss his weight in a very negative way.

The interaction with mcKay and the rest of the team is the only thing which is stopping those great team moments which were common in Stargate SG1 and it would be great to see the writers improve the relationship of McKay and the other characaters (especially Ronon and Teyla).

What i would love to see is a episode with McKay, Ronon and Teyla and get some serious growth with Teyla and Ronon getting to understand and appreciate McKay better. A episode with all 3 of them (no Sheppard) would be fantastic where all 3 of them have to rely on each other to survive.

To sum it up i hope that in season 5 the writers include some positive McKay and Ronon and McKay and Teyla moments as i think it will improve them overall team chemistry which at present is the only thing holding Atlantis back.

What do you all think?


I respectfully disagree with you. I think the friendship and caring is very apparant between McKay and the rest of the team. Yes, they were laughing at Jeannie's stories on "McKay and Mrs. Miller". They also were openly accepting of Rod in that show.
However, at the end of the episode, they all said that they weren't happy with Rod at all. (For example, Sheppard gave Rod a look of irratation when Rod revealed that his Sheppard was more like McKay.) And they all shared a look at when Rodney was pulling up a chair.

Yes, Sheppard says that he would do anything for the team, even Rodney, in one episode. But I think Sheppard thinks of Rodney like a "little brother." Irratating, always in the way, demanding, but NOBODY ELSE MESSES WITH.

ykickamoocow
April 4th, 2008, 09:03 AM
Yes, Sheppard says that he would do anything for the team, even Rodney, in one episode. But I think Sheppard thinks of Rodney like a "little brother." Irratating, always in the way, demanding, but NOBODY ELSE MESSES WITH.

Maybe so but that doesnt mean you like your little brother. Im not friends will my little brother but i will defend him if someone either verbally or physically attacks him.

Also i really cant get over that scene in "McKay and Mrs. Miller" as they were cruel to Rodney. His little sister had no right to tell McKay's colleagues about McKay's childhood and it was insulting that Sheppard, Teyla and especially Ronon all laughed AT him and not WITH him.

bluealien
April 4th, 2008, 09:26 AM
I don't see McKay as the weakest link in any way. There is a great bond between all of them and I see them as a family. I believe that any of them would do anything for the other. I see all their friendships as being strong, and the team suffers when they are not all together, which was witnessed in some of the eps in Season 4. Their friendships are just different and none of them stronger than the other. John and Rodney probably get the most screentime together and we see a lot of their back and forth bantering but I don't think Rodney is any closer to John than he is to the other members of his team. The same could be said for John. He has displayed that he would put his life on the line for any one of them. John I feel is as close to Ronon and Teyla as he is to Rodney, but it's just a different kind of friendship.

Their chemistry is what keeps me watching SGA. They are like a well oiled wheel. They all play a part in saving the day and each other, but just do it in different ways. It's not all about blowing up things and firing a gun. I find the best eps are the team ones because they play so well off each other and I love all the interaction between them. I don't want to see one pairing or friendship constantly, and I think season 4 had a better balance of character interaction than season 3.

KindlyKeller
April 4th, 2008, 01:36 PM
Maybe so but that doesnt mean you like your little brother. Im not friends will my little brother but i will defend him if someone either verbally or physically attacks him.

Also i really cant get over that scene in "McKay and Mrs. Miller" as they were cruel to Rodney. His little sister had no right to tell McKay's colleagues about McKay's childhood and it was insulting that Sheppard, Teyla and especially Ronon all laughed AT him and not WITH him.

I agree completely. I despise "McKay and Mrs. Miller." As I've said on an occasion or two in other threads, I think it's 38 minutes of them being openly mocking and cruel to him, and 2 minutes of "ahh, we love ya, buddy!" It's an atrocious episode that I hope never to see again.

But I think it would be a mistake to define all of these relationships based on that one episode. Sometimes people ARE cruel to those they love, unfortunately.

KindlyKeller
April 4th, 2008, 01:38 PM
Their friendships are just different and none of them stronger than the other.

I couldn't disagree more with this statement. Rodney's friendship with Ronon is as strong as his friendship with John? Really? I see absolutely no evidence of that. If Ronon was so close with Rodney, he wouldn't have left Atlantis in "The Last Man" after John and Teyla were gone.

Charon
April 4th, 2008, 01:54 PM
I couldn't disagree more with this statement. Rodney's friendship with Ronon is as strong as his friendship with John? Really? I see absolutely no evidence of that. If Ronon was so close with Rodney, he wouldn't have left Atlantis in "The Last Man" after John and Teyla were gone.

Perhaps, but Ronon views Shep. as a brother in arms(and leader); it's not likely he would follow McKay in his research.

KindlyKeller
April 4th, 2008, 02:05 PM
Perhaps, but Ronon views Shep. as a brother in arms(and leader); it's not likely he would follow McKay in his research.

I donno. I think that's a stretch. The much more obvious, and evidence-supported explanation, is that McKay and Ronon are just aren't nearly as close as McKay and John are. In my opinion, it's quite a leap to suppose otherwise.

Charon
April 4th, 2008, 02:30 PM
I donno. I think that's a stretch. The much more obvious, and evidence-supported explanation, is that McKay and Ronon are just aren't nearly as close as McKay and John are. In my opinion, it's quite a leap to suppose otherwise.

Oh, if we're using obvious-ness , Ronon protects him on the hive in season..... well ... 1 thru 4, and is starting to banter with him more instead of the usual grunts. Besides it's sci-fi and I shall take the leap.;)

Killdeer
April 4th, 2008, 02:32 PM
I agree with KindlyKeller. John and Rodney are always hanging out, playing games, going to grab something to eat. You rarely if ever see that with Ronon and Rodney, or with Teyla and Rodney. It's very hard for me to think they're as close as John and Rodney are.

bluealien
April 4th, 2008, 02:38 PM
I couldn't disagree more with this statement. Rodney's friendship with Ronon is as strong as his friendship with John? Really? I see absolutely no evidence of that. If Ronon was so close with Rodney, he wouldn't have left Atlantis in "The Last Man" after John and Teyla were gone.

Well as I said I see it differently. And if McKay was so close to John why did he give up on him in The Last Man and only continued his work to try and bring him back after he lost Keller. I don't see John doing anymore or less for Rodney than he would for the rest of his team and vice versa. I see them all having close friendship within the team and those friendships are different.. That doesn't mean that any of them would naturally stay together indefinitley. If they were not part of the same team I could easily see them going their separate ways at some stage in the future.

Killdeer
April 4th, 2008, 02:54 PM
Would John do more for Rodney than any other person on his team? No, definitely not. He'd do anything for any one of them, just as he told Teyla in Sateda.

Would Rodney do more for John than for any one else on his team? Again, no way.

Is Rodney closer to John than the other two members of his team? Well, in my mind, that's a completely separate question. And I would say yes. Definitely.

editorguy
April 4th, 2008, 03:04 PM
I totally disagree.

I think its important for a spin off to differ from the original. SG-1 was, a few snarky comments aside, a big-ol' love-in and that was effective for their story and the result of the growth of their relationships on that show.

McKay wasn't brought to Atlantis to make friends and he, through his work and attitude, constantly reminds everyone of that. If he suddenly got along with everyone, he would pretty much lose that which we love about him most. Besides, there have been plenty of opportunities for him to express his true feelings for people, even if it ends up being awkward and difficult, but ultimately that is his character, and it has been from the beginning (see Redemption, Pt 2)

So yeah... weakest link? I don't think so.

SGASG!
April 4th, 2008, 03:21 PM
I think Mckay is important to the team chemistry. Most of the arguments which make their conversations interesting include Mckay. Without him the show would be boring. I also think that he does love all the other people on the team he just dosen't really want to show it out front he hides behind his arrogance. Mckay is definately one of the strongest links not the weakest one.

fumblesmcstupid
April 4th, 2008, 04:58 PM
I think that Ronon and Teyla are not SCIENCY people! like Ronon said in FIRST STRIKE that he needs to learn more science stuff! so a lot of time they fell stupid!

Calling them "Conan and Xena" well not to their faces did not help!

in TABULA RASA Teyla is working with Rodney in his lab trying to figure the situation out! and she is SUPERISED when Rodney shows up in the brig with carter and Zelenka!

other than that......no!


Ronon: Vengence and Tao of Rodney

In the Return Sheppard says goodbye to Teyla and Ronon

Rodney just says "BYE" (maybe it hurt too much to say more for him?)


I sometimes see the team as JUST "John, Teyla, and Ronon" and oh yeah Rodney goes with them!

I bet that when it is time for lunch or dinner that none of his *team* goes and gets Rodney!

We see only the stuff in the show...not the day to day stufff! so the writers need to get with the program and give us some good meaty stuff with Teyla & Ronon and Rodney!

Rodney is not the weakest link!!


the writers are!!!!!!!!

PG15
April 4th, 2008, 05:21 PM
Dude, chill...

thekillman
April 5th, 2008, 08:45 AM
i like the chemistry as it is.

add an sg1 family feel and you might aswell name it sg1.

sg1 had a family feel as it was as close as you can get to family.
tealc: he gave up his life to join sg1. so sg1 was the closest he had to family.
daniel: no mom/dad.[when he was young] thus never knew real family, thus sg1 closest to family
jack: no wife. kid dead. idem.
carter: does she have family? anyway. sg1 member were friends. and she was in love with jack.

sga:
sheppard. young. dead father. he has a bro. competitive and playfull.
mkcay: sister. parents? science is his life.doesnt need friends very much. competitive and arrogant. and territorial
ronon: big caveman with highly advanced gun. need i say more?
teyla: has family.


everyone has family. john and mckay are too competitive. mckay is too arrogant. you cant have this uber family feel. they like eachother. they just dont say. furthermore i like the arrogance and competition. i love it. its SGA.

Naonak
April 5th, 2008, 12:26 PM
carter: does she have family? anyway. sg1 member were friends. and she was in love with jack.
Erm, Jacob...?

Killdeer
April 5th, 2008, 06:02 PM
Erm, Jacob...?

And there was Mark, her brother, who was married with two kids.

MechaThor
April 6th, 2008, 05:13 AM
Sheppard/Teyla - Friends
Sheppard/Ronon - Friends
Ronon/Teyla - Frends
Rodney/Sheppard - Maybe Friends



Rodney and Sheppard are Friends! Infact I would say they are closer as friends than Sheppard and Ronan and Sheppard and Teyla.
Have you not seen the "Returner" that episode clearly shows they are Friends in a socal sense!
Rodney has also showed he is friends with Teyla in recent epsiodes, and has a akward relationship with Ronan, because Mckay don't know what to say to him.

Also I think the Atlantis team get alone equal if not more than SG-1, Yes SG-1 glued as a team, but so have Sheppards team. Not only that the Atlantis team have more involvement with the supporting cast, you have relationships being built between,
Mckay/Caldwell
Sheppard/Caldwell
Mckay/Zelenka
Sam/Zelenka
Lorne/Teyla
Lorne/Sheppard
Lorne/Mckay
Kellar/Mckay
Kellar/Ronan
Zelenka/Lorne
Sheppard/Tod

SG1 tended to only lend as a team, and left alot of the supporting characters out. There was not much between Frasier and the main team apart from Hammond and Sam. Also Bill Lee, had a far amoung of interaction with Sam, Daneil and Landry, buts thats it.

garhkal
April 6th, 2008, 11:31 AM
I have to agree with you, but i think Rodney has come a long way since early SGA and even though he doesn't express it it the same way i get the feeling that he sees his team as very important to him, and his family so to speak.

Part of McKay's charm as a character is his social awkwardness , take that away and you loose some of the essence of his character. As one poster said it would be nice to have some more team moments in season 5 but not just for Rodney, for eveyone involved.

Agreed. Mccay is how he is, at his best under pressure CAUSE he is awkward in social situations. It is how he has developed his mind into the sharp weapon it is. But i do see him changing, with how he handled things in season 2, all the way through the end of 4. I mean, who else wanted to set things right. NO one else but him. Heck, he even stayed back and made himself into the cities hologram just to help his friend shep out..


If Ronon was so close with Rodney, he wouldn't have left Atlantis in "The Last Man" after John and Teyla were gone.

I could be best of friends with you, but if i lost 2 other great friends, but saw a way to make things better i would not hesitate to leave to do so. That is how i saw things with Ronon leaving..

maxbo
April 6th, 2008, 12:18 PM
One of the great things about Stargate SG1 was the interaction between the members of SG1 and how they were all very good friends and would each give their life to save their teammate.

The only thing wrong with Stargate Atlantis is the interaction between the 4 team members is not as good and i think McKay is the weak link.

Sheppard/Teyla - Friends
Sheppard/Ronon - Friends
Ronon/Teyla - Frends
Rodney/Sheppard - Maybe Friends

McKay on the other hand really isnt friends with any of them (Sheppard is debatable) as shown in the episodes "McKay and Mrs. Miller" where they are all opening laughing AT Mckay (not with) and the episode "Tao of Rodney" where they all discuss his weight in a very negative way.

The interaction with mcKay and the rest of the team is the only thing which is stopping those great team moments which were common in Stargate SG1 and it would be great to see the writers improve the relationship of McKay and the other characaters (especially Ronon and Teyla).

What i would love to see is a episode with McKay, Ronon and Teyla and get some serious growth with Teyla and Ronon getting to understand and appreciate McKay better. A episode with all 3 of them (no Sheppard) would be fantastic where all 3 of them have to rely on each other to survive.

To sum it up i hope that in season 5 the writers include some positive McKay and Ronon and McKay and Teyla moments as i think it will improve them overall team chemistry which at present is the only thing holding Atlantis back.

What do you all think?

Although I love the SG-1 friendships, they occurred so quickly and seamlessly that they added to the fantasy element of the series. The friendships on SGA have a more realistic feel, IMO. And, Rodney, with his socially awkward snarky personality is a prime reason for this more realistic feel.

I believe that the friendships on SGA are just as strong as the friendships on SG1, but that they are just different. Unfortunately, the writing for SGA isn't as strong as it was for early SG-1 so it's understandable that this difference may not be appreciated.

For instance, I agree that the writers haven't done as good a job in showing Rodney's friendship with Teyla and Ronon as they have in showing his friendship with Sheppard. Because I know the writers feel more comfortable writing for Rodney and Sheppard than they do for Teyla and Ronon - it's hard to me to attribute the lack of Teyla/Rodney/Ronon scenes to the characters. So, no, I don't see Rodney as the weakest link, I see the writers as the weakest links.



McKay is friends with all of them, but it'll just never be portrayed the way you want it to unless he loses the snark, which would be bad, imo.

Yes, Rodney losing his snark would be bad.


I can't agree at all with the part of your post about Sheppard and McKay's friendship being debatable. IMO their relationship was far and away the most strongly portrayed relationship in S4 - I believe every single episode had at least a little something portraying just how strong the friendship is between the two of them and how much they rely on each other. And episodes like Doppelganger, Miller's Crossing, Quarantine, Midway, The Seer, The Last Man, Outcast - all of those showed to me just how strong that friendship is. I would argue that Sheppard and McKay are closer to each other than to any one else on Atlantis now that they've lost Elizabeth and Carson. And no, I don't mean that in a slashy sense. Yes, John cares for and watches out for Ronon and Teyla, and Rodney cares for them too. But only with each other did I see them relax a little bit and tease and joke. I think Elizabeth's loss forced them to drop maybe some of the competitiveness that they had previously displayed around her and just work together and start looking out for each other.

I agree that the writers have shown more of Rodney and Sheppard's friendship than any other, so it's not unreasonable to see them as each other's best friend. Although Rodney did call Carson his best friend in Sunday, which I put down as another example of careless writing because by that time, the Rodney/Carson friendship had been severely backburnered since Season 1.


I do agree mostly with this part of your post. While there's been a little progress made with Ronon and Rodney's relationship, mostly toward the end of S3, Teyla and Rodney have had almost no time together, and I have very much been wishing for an episode with just Teyla and Rodney - something that would force them to work together and maybe understand each other more. I'm afraid if it were all three of them however it would end up being Ronon and Teyla against Rodney. I many times feel as though Teyla, and Ronon too sometimes, simply tolerate Rodney because he's a genius and can save their lives, and because he's John's friend. In Quarantine for example, John saw Rodney's earpiece lying on the table and realized that Rodney was locked in the biology lab. Teyla started to say "If he is in there..." and John cut her off "he's going to be freaking." She glanced at him and didn't finish, but I got the impression that's not what she had started to say - she was more likely going to say something like "then there is nothing he can do to help us." John's worried about how Rodney's handling this, Teyla (admittedly in my perception) is worried about who's going to get them out of this. A lot of times it feels like Rodney thinks he's best friends with all of them, but only John really cares about him in return - Teyla and Ronon both just tolerate him for the team's sake. Not always - there have been some good moments, especially with Ronon in the later part of S3, and the tea ceremony with Teyla in Tao, but too often I do get the feeling of a guy that thinks everyone likes him and really behind his back they're just wishing he would shut up and go away.

I agree with you about the lack of Teyla and Rodney scenes and wish for more. However, I disagree that Ronon and Teyla merely tolerate Rodney and if that scene in Quarantine is typical of why you believe Teyla and Ronon don't like Rodney, then it's not a good example because your perception of that scene is off.

Here's what really happened: After Sheppard saw Rodney's earpiece, he told Teyla where Rodney was and immediately told her that there were no computers or radios in the botany lab. That's when Teyla realized that Rodney was also trapped with no way out and said, "If he's in there..." and then Sheppard finished her thoughts in his own words... "He must be freaking."


So yeah, I do agree that there is a weakness in how they have portrayed the relationship between Rodney and Ronon and Teyla. While I would never call him the weak link (I personally would not watch this show without him), I would agree that his strongest connection to the team is through John, and that is a team weakness that needs to be worked on by the writers. I don't think it was as obvious until this season because, well, Ronon and Teyla didn't get that much screentime. Elizabeth and Carson both took up more attention, and Rodney was close with both of them, so the lack of a close relationship with his team wasn't as apparent. It wasn't so much something that suddenly happened this year as something that had always been there but didn't become glaringly apparent until those two were removed.

Rodney's lack of significant sceentime with Teyla, Ronon and anyone who isn't Sheppard has always been apparent to me. And, considering that complaints about the McKay/Sheppard hour have been around since the end of Season 1, others have also noticed. I've given up hoping for more balance and now just hope for decent scenes between the characters no matter how infrequently they occur.

maxbo
April 6th, 2008, 01:14 PM
I did say it was my own perception. And neither of us knows what Teyla was actually going to say before John cut her off, so I don't know that anyone can say that one perception is wrong or right, just that we see the scene differently. How is one interpretation less valid than another? I accept that you didn't read it the same way - that's fine. That's just how I took it.

Good point, especially since I incorrectly interpreted your post in my quick read of it - talk about perception. After reading it more carefully, I realize that we saw that scene accurately, but reached different conclusions.

EDIT: Killdeer, why did you delete your post? Now, it looks like I'm talking to myself and I'm already nutty enough. :lol:

Killdeer
April 6th, 2008, 01:21 PM
EDIT: Killdeer, why did you delete your post? Now, it looks like I'm talking to myself and I'm already nutty enough. :lol:

:lol: Sorry. :o I shouldn't have, but I didn't realize you were responding, and I decided I didn't want to argue about it. So I'm the nutty one, not you. :D I appreciate your response anyway. :)

maxbo
April 6th, 2008, 01:29 PM
:lol: Sorry. :o I shouldn't have, but I didn't realize you were responding, and I decided I didn't want to argue about it. So I'm the nutty one, not you. :D I appreciate your response anyway. :)

No, I'm sorry and you're not nutty, you're sensible - enjoy it while it lasts. :)

Constanza
April 9th, 2008, 07:31 AM
No way! McKay is not the weakest link!
To be honest… I hated him at the beginnings of the show (he was annoying), but I started to change my mind very soon as he added lots of humor to every episode.

Come on! Let’s face it: we need him around; saying “we’re so dead” and then snapping his fingers when he gets a brilliant idea…

I believe most of fans have learned to appreciate Rodney as the shows moves forward; and is it easy to imagine that the rest of the main characters have followed that same path as well: you hate him at first, you tolerate him later… and then you kind of appreciate him; besides we have seen him trying to bond with the other members of the crew.

True, Ronon does not seem to appreciate him, but he’ll get there… by season 15 maybe.

Naonak
April 9th, 2008, 09:56 AM
True, Ronon does not seem to appreciate him, but he’ll get there… by season 15 maybe.
I thought the "I need to learn some science" scene from First Strike showed that Ronon does have a respect for what Rodney can do.

Killdeer
April 9th, 2008, 02:30 PM
I thought the "I need to learn some science" scene from First Strike showed that Ronon does have a respect for what Rodney can do.

There's a difference between having respect for what someone can do and caring about them on a personal level. I have no doubt whatsoever that Ronon and Teyla have a great deal of respect for what Rodney can do. They're quite well aware of his value to the expedition and the team. But valuing him as a friend is something completely different, and that's the part I have a hard time seeing sometimes.

KindlyKeller
April 9th, 2008, 04:57 PM
There's a difference between having respect for what someone can do and caring about them on a personal level. I have no doubt whatsoever that Ronon and Teyla have a great deal of respect for what Rodney can do. They're quite well aware of his value to the expedition and the team. But valuing him as a friend is something completely different, and that's the part I have a hard time seeing sometimes.

Agree with this completely.

As a side note, boy am I tired of how whenever the importance of friendships are brought up on this shown (even by John), he's thrown in as "even Rodney," as if he's somehow lesser than everyone else.

Reiko
April 9th, 2008, 06:15 PM
As a side note, boy am I tired of how whenever the importance of friendships are brought up on this shown (even by John), he's thrown in as "even Rodney," as if he's somehow lesser than everyone else.

.: I disagree.

.: I do not think that the team thinks as Rodney as lesser. I think when Shep says "even Rodney", it's in friendly terms. Especially with Rodney's personality, quirks and such.

KindlyKeller
April 9th, 2008, 06:37 PM
.: I disagree.

.: I do not think that the team thinks as Rodney as lesser. I think when Shep says "even Rodney", it's in friendly terms. Especially with Rodney's personality, quirks and such.

I can see how you'd get that impression. That may well be how it's meant. But to me, it's just him being thrown in as an afterthought. Like, that emotional scene with Teyla in "Sateda." He tosses Rodney in begrudgingly at the end, and then Teyla doesn't even mention Rodney, saying that (paraphrasing) "Shep and Dr. Weir have been very welcoming and helpful," as if McKay hasn't been.

This is coming from someone with an enormous Rodney bias, obviously, so one might take this all with a grain of salt.

Rac80
April 9th, 2008, 09:33 PM
Don't like Rodney, never have and never will. I vote him for Wraith-bait! He wihines, he is arrogant, he is simply a jerk! (I'm surprised Zelenka hasn't found an untraceable poison and used it!) He needs to mature a bit (at his age he should be over the childishness...but that could be why he is still single!) and stop the DARN WHINING!!!!!! (ok whining is my pet peeve I admit! :) ) So stake him out for Todd to feed on! (atleast Todd has a sense of humor;) )

jenks
April 9th, 2008, 09:56 PM
Don't like Rodney, never have and never will. I vote him for Wraith-bait! He wihines, he is arrogant, he is simply a jerk! (I'm surprised Zelenka hasn't found an untraceable poison and used it!) He needs to mature a bit (at his age he should be over the childishness...but that could be why he is still single!) and stop the DARN WHINING!!!!!! (ok whining is my pet peeve I admit! :) ) So stake him out for Todd to feed on! (atleast Todd has a sense of humor;) )

Oh I don't know, he doesn't do too bad with the ladies...

http://img527.imageshack.us/img527/2225/mckaykellerbu1.jpg

KindlyKeller
April 10th, 2008, 12:37 AM
Don't like Rodney, never have and never will. I vote him for Wraith-bait! He wihines, he is arrogant, he is simply a jerk! (I'm surprised Zelenka hasn't found an untraceable poison and used it!) He needs to mature a bit (at his age he should be over the childishness...but that could be why he is still single!) and stop the DARN WHINING!!!!!! (ok whining is my pet peeve I admit! :) ) So stake him out for Todd to feed on! (atleast Todd has a sense of humor;) )

I love Keller, but it's interesting to hear a Keller fan condemn another character for whining.

Naonak
April 10th, 2008, 05:43 AM
I can see how you'd get that impression. That may well be how it's meant. But to me, it's just him being thrown in as an afterthought. Like, that emotional scene with Teyla in "Sateda." He tosses Rodney in begrudgingly at the end, and then Teyla doesn't even mention Rodney, saying that (paraphrasing) "Shep and Dr. Weir have been very welcoming and helpful," as if McKay hasn't been.

This is coming from someone with an enormous Rodney bias, obviously, so one might take this all with a grain of salt.
I see that Teyla line as mentioning John and Weir as them being the ones in charge, not just that they've been the only ones that are friendly with her. I mean, she doesn't mention Carson, either...

I agree with Reiko that the "even Rodney" stuff is just a kind of jokey thing. Even Rodney, despite all his... "quirks"...


There's a difference between having respect for what someone can do and caring about them on a personal level. I have no doubt whatsoever that Ronon and Teyla have a great deal of respect for what Rodney can do. They're quite well aware of his value to the expedition and the team. But valuing him as a friend is something completely different, and that's the part I have a hard time seeing sometimes.
Oh, there I was just replying to what I took the previous poster to mean (Ronon not appreciating Rodney's skills), although I might have misunderstood them.

Anyway, Ronon isn't the kind of guy to show his feelings much, and he probably is the one who gets most annoyed by Rodney's whining, etc., but I think the big bear hug at the end of Tao, and various little teasing moments in other episodes show that there is a friendship there. On the other hand, Teyla doesn't do anything much... :rolleyes:;) Rodney/Teyla is probably the main - if not only - relationship that still needs a lot of development. I did like the scene at the start of The Kindred I, though.

Killdeer
April 10th, 2008, 06:16 AM
Anyway, Ronon isn't the kind of guy to show his feelings much, and he probably is the one who gets most annoyed by Rodney's whining, etc., but I think the big bear hug at the end of Tao, and various little teasing moments in other episodes show that there is a friendship there. On the other hand, Teyla doesn't do anything much... :rolleyes:;) Rodney/Teyla is probably the main - if not only - relationship that still needs a lot of development. I did like the scene at the start of The Kindred I, though.

With that I agree. And I suppose I didn't care for the Kindred scene - I just felt like it was another example of regressing Rodney for a laugh. He may have been at that point in S1 - I don't believe he's there now.

Ronon and Rodney did make some progress in the last half of S3. Unfortunately they seemed to forget about that in S4. :(

Constanza
April 12th, 2008, 11:19 AM
Oh, there I was just replying to what I took the previous poster to mean (Ronon not appreciating Rodney's skills), although I might have misunderstood them.

I meant emotionally, as true friends ;)
(I have no doubt Ronon appreciates McKay as a scientist).

farcue
April 12th, 2008, 11:49 AM
personally i think the difference in personality and background of all the team members makes it far more interesting between them.

To me i'd say the weak link in the team is Tayla. When the show started off i really had the feeling she was her peoples representitive as opposed to another member of the expedition. Now she just seems like somone who ended up on atlantis. I know she's still the same but somehow her motivation didnt seem to stick/be as well portrayed. In comparison to say Jacksons constant looking for his wife or Tealcs wanting to bring down the gould which didnt really, to me at least, get old.

ykickamoocow
May 29th, 2008, 02:34 AM
BUMP

Hopefully the writers have been listening to us as here are as


- McKay will be delivering Teyla's baby early in the season and im hoping that this wont be used as a humour scene at McKay's expense. If done well it could be a good friendship episode for McKay and Teyla.

- McKay and Ronon have a episode together (508 "Tracker") so im hoping that will have some good moments between the two characters.


Hopefully both these things are done well as they both show promise but i guess only time will tell.

stclare
May 29th, 2008, 01:51 PM
BUMP

Hopefully the writers have been listening to us as here are as


- McKay will be delivering Teyla's baby early in the season and im hoping that this wont be used as a humour scene at McKay's expense. If done well it could be a good friendship episode for McKay and Teyla.

- McKay and Ronon have a episode together (508 "Tracker") so im hoping that will have some good moments between the two characters.


Hopefully both these things are done well as they both show promise but i guess only time will tell.

I was also pleased with these spoilers untill i realised this

its rodney/ronan/keller in tracker that seems to me where the love triangle will be played out. unless im confusing my spoilers which is possible i suppose

thats not the kind of interaction i want to see.

Rac80
May 30th, 2008, 09:03 AM
I love Keller, but it's interesting to hear a Keller fan condemn another character for whining.

call me old fashioned but there is simply something SO WRONG about a man's whining! I don't mind Keller's (not that I think she whines very much) mainly because she is a young woman in a new and very scary situation (she is about 25, I guess). It's normal and natural. A guy rodney's age needs to be A MAN and get a backbone! :S:S But as I said I am a bit old-fashioned and a bit older so I don't find whiney men amusing at all. ;)

elliecat
May 30th, 2008, 09:51 AM
I would have to say that I don't think Rodney is the weakest link. He has been there from the start and is a vital part of the team. I think he is very funny, any scenes he has with people like Ronon or Sheppard or Carson etc are very funny. And he is a brilliant scientist who may whinge but gets the job done at the end of the day.

Reiko
May 30th, 2008, 08:56 PM
Ronon and Rodney did make some progress in the last half of S3. Unfortunately they seemed to forget about that in S4. :(

» Yeah. I agree, Rodney and Ronon in Tao especially was real sweet. Seemed to be forgotten in S4, along with several other aspects of the show that were important to me :(

» stclare - can't agree with you more. The last thing I want to see is Rodney and Ronon bickering over Keller. Keller of all women. :mckay:

Linda06
May 31st, 2008, 10:52 AM
I would rather have Zelenka as a regular than Rodney...I don't know how much more of that incessant whining i can take.....I am so glad remotes have got mute butons on them!!!

Reiko
May 31st, 2008, 11:18 AM
» For me, Rodney can border close to unbearable when he doesn't have Beckett or Weir to counter him once in awhile. Just saying ...

Yeade
May 31st, 2008, 04:06 PM
You know, I can't be sure I'm separating canon from all the fanfic I've read, but I have a hard time seeing McKay's relationships with his three team members as anything less than friendship.

Sheppard and McKay unquestionably have the deepest, strongest bond, IMO. Besides countless moments, big and small, of interaction over the past four seasons, in "Miller's Crossing" and "The Last Man," I think the two essentially pen love letters to each other. All slash aside, lol, there's something of a perhaps unhealthy codependency between them. Let's review!

In "Miller's Crossing," when McKay comes to Sheppard with his plan to feed himself to the Wraith in order to save Jeannie, Sheppard refuses to allow it because, explicitly, McKay's a valued member of his team. Now, I dunno about anybody else, but I mentally translated "team" to "family." That is, I felt Sheppard has a much more personal stake in whether McKay lives or dies than his general distaste for letting Wraith eat people he knows. I think this view is supported by how emotional Sheppard seems in that conversation and his final "I can't"--emphasis on the 'I.' Rodney's prepared to sacrifice himself on behalf of Jeannie; John does sacrifice Wallace on behalf of Rodney. A pretty clear and telling parallel, IMO.

On the flip side, in "The Last Man," McKay stubbornly denies Sheppard's death after everyone else has lost hope. He desperately seizes upon the frankly crazy idea of changing the timeline, figures out how to do the impossible with over two decades of obsessive work and, instead of sending himself back in time or any number of other viable options, he chooses to gamble on jumping Sheppard almost 50,000 years into the future, giving him all the knowledge of what will happen, and returning him. No assurance that things will turn out all right, that his life's labor will come to anything at all, besides Sheppard being Sheppard. And this is enough for McKay. That kind of absolute faith is painful, IMO. Especially for someone like McKay, who I imagine hasn't believed in much outside his own skills. More even than Sheppard counts on McKay to whip up one brilliant scientific solution after another, I think Rodney trusts John to, well, make everything right.

Then Sheppard proceeds to underscore just how much he cares for McKay by hesitating. I mean, he's been given the facts of how the galaxy went to hell in a handbasket and been told he can fix it all, yet he's concerned about ruining the little bit of happiness McKay found with Keller after the apocalypse. McKay, of course, doesn't hear Sheppard out because he's determined to have John, Teyla, Ronon, Atlantis, Pegasus--his entire world--alive and well.

So, I think calling Sheppard and McKay anything less than friends is kind of willfully obtuse. Honestly, I find the level of devotion these two hold toward one another frightening in the implications of there being nothing they wouldn't do for each other.

McKay's interactions with Ronon and Teyla are harder to pin down simply due to lack of screentime, IMO. Let's tackle Ronon first.

In some ways, I think McKay's stated relationship to Ford ("Runner") can serve as a base for his to Ronon. As I understand the matter, McKay was never that close to Ford because their interests and views were so different and neither sought the other's company outside team activities. More acquaintances, I guess, than friends. Though, what with the constant mutual lifesaving, comrades is perhaps a better description.

While I believe McKay and Ronon began on the same ground, I also feel they're closer than McKay was to Ford because their approaches to life are surprisingly similar. They're both blunt, practical people confident in their respective areas of mastery, unwilling to suffer fools, and capable of great loyalty to those who earn their trust, IMO.

They bond over food in "Condemned." McKay knows enough of Ronon's feelings in "Tao of Rodney" to make such a touching and insightful gesture as healing the scar Ronon bears from the Wraith tracker. He steals Ronon's fugly painting in "Reunion," too, lol. Ronon's patient and often gruffly amused with Rodney's antics, I find. Lately, in "Doppelganger" and "Spoils of War," IIRC, Ronon's been casual with manhandling McKay by the back of his tac vest. I don't think Ronon allows many to touch him outside sparring, medical situations, etc., and he rarely initiates anything himself though he's far more comfortable with hugs and whatnot than, say, Sheppard. When you count up who else Ronon's been physically affectionate and playful with--Melena, his former squadmates, Sheppard, probably Teyla, Beckett in "Sateda"--they seem to be either sudden bursts of emotion or people Ronon cares for. McKay's in the second category, IMO. Note also that Rodney doesn't complain about Ronon dragging him around.

Maybe that's not much of an argument for McKay and Ronon being friends, but it's all I got, lol. Ronon's more a man of action than words, so I personally wouldn't expect any big declarations of friendship. McKay hardly ever talks about mushy feelings either. Under pain of death, more like. Or the apocalypse a la "The Last Man."

As for McKay and Teyla, well, I suppose there's Rodney's odd sense of chivalry toward her. About the only time I can think of without hitting some references where McKay's rude and dismissive to Teyla is his Xena comment in "Epiphany." Granted, Teyla has a sort of stately self-possession that's hard not to respect. OTOH, McKay's rude and dismissive of practically everyone regardless of relation, race, age, gender, rank, ability, etc. With the exception of Katie Brown, actually. Which is a matter of him badly wanting her to think the best of him, IMO. Could the same not apply to Teyla? Not necessarily the romantic aspect. Rather that his relationships with Teyla and Katie are so important to Rodney that he'd go against his grain to cultivate them.

Teyla's end of this is really difficult for me to figure out. She's as understanding, likely more, of McKay's quirks as Ronon. Partly because she's known Rodney longer, I imagine. Partly because she's good at managing people in general. About the only thing I can think of is that, if Teyla doesn't consider you a friend, you'd know, lol. She wouldn't put up with your juvenile behavior, would probably tell you as much in so many words, and would be as inviting as a long swim in the Bering Sea come winter. I don't get that impression in her few interactions with McKay.

Um. I think too much, huh? :o

Cautious Explorer
May 31st, 2008, 04:33 PM
McKay is the weakest link in the sense that he's a crutch for the writers' laziness, self-absorption, whatever you want to call it.

They have admitted that McKay is easiest to write for, easiest to identify with. Rather than strectch their range, put some effort into developing all the characters, McKay is repeatedly overused.

The same goes for storytelling. Rather than worry about complex plots that involve the entire expedition or exploration of the Pegaus Galaxy, it's far easier to write a buddy episode short on plot but full of McKay and Sheppard banter. Why worry about how to resolve a situation when it's so convenient to have McKay discover a scientific miracle to save the world week after week (alway within the last few minutes of the show). Who needs character development when you can just write another "everybody loves Rodney despite himself" episode, or "Rodney's lovelife gone bad" or throw in another round of "Rodney the clown".

I'd love to see McKay's screen time cut in half. Maybe it would force the writers to start thinking creatively and build up some of their forgotten characters.

Yeade
May 31st, 2008, 11:17 PM
[TPTB] have admitted that McKay is easiest to write for, easiest to identify with. Rather than strectch their range, put some effort into developing all the characters, McKay is repeatedly overused.

The same goes for storytelling. Rather than worry about complex plots that involve the entire expedition or exploration of the Pegaus Galaxy, it's far easier to write a buddy episode short on plot but full of McKay and Sheppard banter. Why worry about how to resolve a situation when it's so convenient to have McKay discover a scientific miracle to save the world week after week (alway within the last few minutes of the show).To be frank, I think you're grossly exaggerating whatever perceived favoritism TPTB have towards McKay.

Your jab about McKay saving the galaxy week after week, for example. This ignores the consistent contributions of pretty much all the main characters at one point or another and episodes, such as "Quarantine," wherein McKay did little or nothing whatsoever to help matters, IMO. Besides, my understanding's that McKay heads the scientific contingent of Atlantis and is the acknowledged expert on Ancient technology. Probably theoretical physics and, by experience, Wraith technology, as well. If he can't decipher what a piece of technology's doing and fix what's broken, who can? None of the others, with the exceptions of Carter and Zelenka, are nearly so qualified. Carter's very busy as base commander, and Zelenka works for McKay. Not that both of them haven't done their share of brilliant last-minute saves.

As for the Sheppard-McKay banter, well, isn't it a forgone conclusion given their established core personalities and relationship? If Sheppard and McKay are in the same vicinity, I figure they're going to snark at each other. I'd consider it OOC for them to not do so, actually. And, yes, where one goes, the other tends to follow. Meta reasons aside, John and Rodney are pretty damn good friends who enjoy each other's company both off the clock and on. Interaction's kind of unavoidable, if you ask me, with their positions as senior staff and on the same off-world team.

Maybe you object to Sheppard and McKay exchanging so much more dialogue than Teyla and Ronon in off-world bottle episodes? (Which, BTW, you don't seem to be considering when you argue there needs to be more exploration of Pegasus.) Honestly, I think that's the modus operandi of the flagship team--Sheppard and McKay bicker; Teyla and Ronon look on, amused. I mean, neither Teyla nor Ronon exactly strike me as chatterboxes. Or, for that matter, as troublemakers. Of the sort that wander after anomalous energy readings and stumble upon secret underground nuclear bunkers. :p

In short, I think the reason why Sheppard and McKay are so often the instigators of the plot of the week has less to do with TPTB being uncreative or hopelessly biased in favor of them doing everything than Teyla, Ronon, and most of the other characters not being either on an exploration team or quite so enthusiastically reckless.

Regarding characterization, you must also factor in whether the character in question is amiable to revealing backstory or the like, IMO. McKay, I think everyone agrees, is more than happy to give his opinion on any topic, including his personal history. Sheppard? Teyla? Ronon? Not so much. As frustrated as I am with, say, Sheppard's past basically being a blank slate, I don't see how it's plausible to pry that information from him against his will short of interrogation (torture and alien drugs optional!) or something equally drastic.

So, McKay volunteers a bit about himself every episode while the more reserved characters don't get their heads picked apart until they meet just the right (or wrong) circumstances. I personally don't feel this imbalance is the fault of TPTB. Indeed, it's perhaps in keeping with the nature of the characters. What's more, I find the non-verbal characterization of Sheppard, Teyla, and Ronon nicely done and consistent.

Finally, that the writers relate best to McKay doesn't necessarily mean they're not developing other characters, IMO. I doubt TPTB are unaware SGA has an ensemble cast, and there are at least three or four episodes every season focused on folks who are not McKay. Not that the remaining episodes are all about McKay either. :rolleyes:

Hope you don't mind me asking, but I'm curious as to whether you like McKay. Is it possible you feel McKay is overused partly because his presence grates on you and means less of your favorite character(s) rather than an objective measure of screentime or what his role is? The converse of folks generally wanting more of what they like, I suppose. No offense. :o

bluealien
June 1st, 2008, 02:10 AM
McKay is the weakest link in the sense that he's a crutch for the writers' laziness, self-absorption, whatever you want to call it.

They have admitted that McKay is easiest to write for, easiest to identify with. Rather than strectch their range, put some effort into developing all the characters, McKay is repeatedly overused.

The same goes for storytelling. Rather than worry about complex plots that involve the entire expedition or exploration of the Pegaus Galaxy, it's far easier to write a buddy episode short on plot but full of McKay and Sheppard banter. Why worry about how to resolve a situation when it's so convenient to have McKay discover a scientific miracle to save the world week after week (alway within the last few minutes of the show). Who needs character development when you can just write another "everybody loves Rodney despite himself" episode, or "Rodney's lovelife gone bad" or throw in another round of "Rodney the clown".

I'd love to see McKay's screen time cut in half. Maybe it would force the writers to start thinking creatively and build up some of their forgotten characters.

I agree with pretty much most of this. McKay in not only overused but basically tends to get the only meaninful dialogue of the episodes. He is the tpb emotional crutch and any deep or emotional scene tends to evolve around Rodney in some way, whether it's him having another epiphany, or the others angsting over him in some way. But it's the same thing over and over and sadly though, Rodney doesn't tend to even learn from his experiences. The ptb seem to think that Rodney has the widest character range I guess..and sometimes I think they love expressing themselves through him as maybe they relate to him more than the others. This does show a lack of imagination on their part, and instead of putting most of their focus into Rodney it would be nice if they could spread it around a bit.
I don't think Rodney and Sheppard have the strongest bond either. Sheppard would do the same for any one of them as he said in Sateda. He has a strong bond with all of them and has in fact put his life on the line for all of them. But then again the Rodney and John "bond" is pretty much the only thing the writers can concentrate on at times.
It would be nice if the writers could stop picking their easiest character to write for and started using their so called creative skills to develop the others. And if at times Rodney is not really contributing anything to the plot as in Quarantine which IMO was one of the worst Rodney episodes, then leave him out. Don't force him into a plot when he has no purpose, or just to be the comic relief. Write meaninful dialogue for all the characters and not just Rodney. Have the others go through some epiphany that has nothing to do with Rodney. The writers need to be more creative with all the characters and it would make for a more diverse and interesting show. There is rarely anything deep and meaningful on the show that doesn't have Rodney as it's focus and it's becoming extremely tiresome. The overuse and focus on Rodney is to the detriment of the other characters and to the show.

ykickamoocow
June 1st, 2008, 03:13 AM
I am always reminded of the quote from the episode "Sunday"

Sheppard: Do you ever hang out with anyone on the base
Ronon looks at Sheppard
Sheppard: you know, besides me and Teyla
Ronon: No


Ronon and McKay dont spend any time together socially and im willing to bet neither to McKay and Teyla. There is also very little evidence that McKay and Sheppard spend time together when not at work.

It is also known that Ronon, Sheppard and Teyla all spend time together outside of work. There are several examples of them all having "team" moments with Rodney no where to be seen.

elliecat
June 1st, 2008, 03:24 AM
I am always reminded of the quote from the episode "Sunday"

Sheppard: Do you ever hang out with anyone on the base
Ronon looks at Sheppard
Sheppard: you know, besides me and Teyla
Ronon: No


Ronon and McKay dont spend any time together socially and im willing to bet neither to McKay and Teyla. There is also very little evidence that McKay and Sheppard spend time together when not at work.

It is also known that Ronon, Sheppard and Teyla all spend time together outside of work. There are several examples of them all having "team" moments with Rodney no where to be seen.

I agree that McKay doesn't spend any time with Ronon and Teyla outside of work but they don't really have much in common.

But Rodney and Shep were playing that game in the episode of the same name outside of work. And they are seen playing chess together sometimes. Shep is in McKays lab playing computer games in Quarantine. And these are just off the top of my head! ;)

ykickamoocow
June 1st, 2008, 06:45 AM
I agree that McKay doesn't spend any time with Ronon and Teyla outside of work but they don't really have much in common.


Neither did Teal'c and Carter but i always got the impression that they were very good friends.

elliecat
June 1st, 2008, 09:18 AM
Neither did Teal'c and Carter but i always got the impression that they were very good friends.

So did I, but they didn't hang out together outside of work much either. :S

Rodney is socially inept and Sheppard is a bit of a dork so they get on ok, talking about superheroes etc. There is a gap between Rodney and Teyla/Ronon but I think with Ronon at least it's getting better imo. They seem to have a happy banter going on between them now, like in Tao of Rodney. And Rodney is not very good at talking to women so maybe that's why him and Teyla don't seem to gel too much. (plus she is far more mature than Rodney and probably just doesn't 'get' him!) ;)

Rodney is that kind of character that most people either love or hate (I love him :D). I would agree that he doesn't hang out with Ronon or Teyla but he does with Sheppard. He may not be best mates with R and T but I do think they all respect each other when it comes down to it. :)

GoSpikey
June 2nd, 2008, 03:39 PM
I haven't got a clue how some people could ship McKay/Teyla, as they don't even have scenes together... Not one nice conversation...

And him dying and trying to say goodbye to everyone doesn't count, and neither does Teyla guarding a door while McKay is working Michael's computer... ;)

ykickamoocow
June 2nd, 2008, 07:26 PM
I haven't got a clue how some people could ship McKay/Teyla, as they don't even have scenes together... Not one nice conversation...


I can count the amount of scene Teyla and McKay have had alone on 1 hand which is kind of sad considering Atlantis has been going for 80 episodes.

McKay has also had very little scenes with Ronon and the only episodes i can think of where they spent time together are "Allies" in season 2, "No Man's Land" in season 3 and "Tao of Rodney" which was also in season 3. Three episodes in 58 episodes (the amount of episodes since Ronon was introduced) is also not very good.

Yeade
June 2nd, 2008, 09:09 PM
McKay in not only overused but basically tends to get the only meaninful dialogue of the episodes. He is the tpb emotional crutch and any deep or emotional scene tends to evolve around Rodney in some way, whether it's him having another epiphany, or the others angsting over him in some way.Okay, this is simply not true. No offense. I'd be willing to concede that McKay gets the most lines, quantitatively speaking. He talks the fastest of all the characters and usually gets saddled with lengthy technobabble exposition whenever there's fake science to be done. He monopolizes the only meaningful dialogue? Any deep or emotional scenes? I think you're distorting or ignoring the facts here. Such a gross exaggeration doesn't help your argument at all, if you ask me.
I don't think Rodney and Sheppard have the strongest bond either. Sheppard would do the same [cf. "Miller's Crossing"] for any one of [his team] as he said in Sateda. He has a strong bond with all of them and has in fact put his life on the line for all of them.Interesting point. My original analysis of the Sheppard-McKay relationship was more from McKay's point of view. That is, of his three team members, I think McKay feels the most attached to Sheppard. Not to say he doesn't care for Teyla and Ronon, too. Rather, Sheppard has a special place in McKay's world, IMO, because in a lot of ways his friendship with Sheppard made Rodney a better man. Or at least braver and more selfless in the face of certain doom, lol. Sheppard no doubt opened up new, wondrous vistas for Rodney, both professional and personal, when he drafted McKay for the flagship team, and I figure you can't help but form a lasting connection to someone who has that much of an impact on your life.

While I believe Sheppard fully reciprocates McKay's friendship, he has similarly deep and strong bonds with Teyla, Ronon, and I'd argue the Atlantis expedition as a whole. He'd do anything for any of those, I agree. Actually, this concept of a relationship being scaled differently depending on which end you're on reminds me of GW's January 2008 interview with Christopher Heyerdahl (http://www.gateworld.net/interviews/ace_of_wraith.shtml) and how Sheppard's more important to the then-unnamed Todd than vice versa. Could be said that Sheppard's in much the same position with his entire team, in fact. He was the first to extend friendship to Teyla in "Rising" and later led the mission that rescued her from the Wraith; I bet Sheppard was the reason why she initially chose to help the Atlanteans on a long-term basis and sort of the human embodiment of her hopes for Pegasus's future. Though her view of him became a great deal less idealistic in "Letters From Pegasus." Likewise, Sheppard put an end to Ronon's running days and offered him a place to belong in Atlantis, no strings attached.

So, in a way, Sheppard might be the key transformative relationship for all three of his team members. Whereas he may consider them to all be equally dear, they may not feel the same given a choice between him and others. Well. Theory still needs work. :D
[i]at times Rodney is not really contributing anything to the plot as in Quarantine which IMO was one of the worst Rodney episodes, then leave him out. Don't force him into a plot when he has no purpose, or just to be the comic relief.Please correct me if I'm wrong, but "Quarantine" featured a number of characters who contributed nothing to the plot. Why object to McKay in particular? Sure, his part was comedic at times. However, I felt the hanging issue of his relationship with Katie Brown was also addressed. Doesn't that serve the purpose of character development? It's another matter altogether if you feel McKay simply doesn't need any more screentime, period, IMO.

Personally, I don't mind McKay occasionally being tapped for humor. He is an integral member of the flagship team and Atlantis in general; I expect him to be out and about. I figure if he's comic relief, that's an opportunity for somebody else to save the day. Isn't that basically what the other characters do?

As for whether McKay spends time with Ronon and Teyla off the clock, though it's not explicitly shown, I'd argue the team routinely eats together and Sheppard likely continues the "Hide and Seek" tradition of movie nights if Ronon's ever growing familiarity with Earth pop culture is anything to go by. What's more, all four go out on far more missions than are featured in episodes. These aren't exactly your typical 9-to-5 shifts at the office. More like off-world vacations with intermittent running for your life, lol. Both aspects would tend to encourage friendships beyond the mere workplace acquaintances we're familiar with, IMO.

stclare
June 3rd, 2008, 09:26 AM
I can count the amount of scene Teyla and McKay have had alone on 1 hand which is kind of sad considering Atlantis has been going for 80 episodes.

McKay has also had very little scenes with Ronon and the only episodes i can think of where they spent time together are "Allies" in season 2, "No Man's Land" in season 3 and "Tao of Rodney" which was also in season 3. Three episodes in 58 episodes (the amount of episodes since Ronon was introduced) is also not very good.

I agree that the interaction between Teyla / Rodney is minimal. I felt though that season 3 seemed to address this a lot more than season 4. but then season 4 was pretty hard for RT and i think that was why we didnt see them together. though what reasons there were for showing no Rodney/Ronan moments i cant think of.

Weakest Link has to equal the writting - say what you want about characters but they are only products of whats written on a page. actors can inject there emotions but i would think it would have to fit into what the writters etc want to show on the screen.

sad sigh :o

Reiko
June 3rd, 2008, 09:03 PM
» Keller is the weakest link, not Rodney. :) Rodney has cast chemistry which Keller does not, and that's a big enough mark in mty book ;)

jenks
June 3rd, 2008, 11:37 PM
Keller has cast chemistry.

NoobTau'ri
June 4th, 2008, 10:51 AM
Rodney McKay - The Weakest link

I think of McKay as Humanity's weak link. I sometimes imagine just how easy it would be for the Wraith to wipe out the Tau'ri by just killing McKay. The reason for this is that so many of our victories over the Wraith can be attributed to McKay's scientific genius rather than military power.

thekillman
June 4th, 2008, 11:13 AM
mckay isnt the weakest link. hes one of the strongest. its why sga is sga and not sg1

Cautious Explorer
June 5th, 2008, 10:04 AM
mckay isnt the weakest link. hes one of the strongest. its why sga is sga and not sg1

I won't disagree that he's one way that SGA differs from SG-1, but he's hardly the only one.

I don't care much for SG-1; loved SGA (until s4 - hope to love it again in s5). I'm not a big McKay fan. I'm watching for Sheppard, Teyla, Ronon, Carson, Zelenka, Lorne.

NoobTau'ri
June 5th, 2008, 06:43 PM
mckay isnt the weakest link. hes one of the strongest. its why sga is sga and not sg1

Lol...nice twist to my words there, chief. McKay is the weakest link because, if killed, the Wraith would likely defeat us, since so many of our victories can be attributed to McKay. So yes, he is our weakest link. If I were leader of the Wraith, I would make killing him our first priority.

jenks
June 5th, 2008, 07:02 PM
That's not what a weakest link is.

fumblesmcstupid
June 7th, 2008, 02:41 AM
I just LOVE Rodney McKay! I really do!

I have watched EVERY Episode of Atlantis and I just don't understand WHY so Many people HATE Rodney!

I took out all 3 of my box sets and looked up the tittles for season 4 on GW and from memory....so don't get all Koyla on me cause I might have remembered wrong!

Here are some examples on why Rodney McKay IS IN NO BLEEPING WAY the weakest link!

The Rising (well, if you know that Rodney really isn't Rodney in the ep he really is Ingram)

Hide and Seek: Walks into the energy cloud!

38 Minuets: He had 38 minuets to save 6 lives (no pressure)

Suspicion: Helps get the Wraith...even though he is terrified!

Childhood's End: OMG those 2 kids haa haa haa

Poisoning the Well: um not much of a Rodney Ep

Underground: He bravely faced the interrogation by the Geni

Home: uh John pretty much saves the day

the Storm: makes John go for a BRISK walk

the Eye: You try having a wacked out commando dude try to shoot your friend then you step in front of the gun and then cut your arm up trying to get info about the city!

the Defiant One: Helps at the end to shoot the Wraith! Go Rodney!

Hot Zone: tries to get as much done as he can, before he thinks he's ganna die!

Sanctuary: I would be just as pissed as Rodney is when the Military leader REFUSES to listen and be wary of a Stranger! If i were Rodney I would say "I told you so"

Before I Sleep: He Died VALIANTLY trying to save the Expedition! the first time!

The Brotherhood: uh he blabbed and lost the ZPM

Letters From Pegasus: he condensed the feed to get messages and intel for the SGC!

The Gift: uh not much Rodney! Go Teyla!

Seige part 1,2 &3: Go Rodney and Zelenka!
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Intruder: Races to get the hard drives out of the f302's against the threat of death!

Runner: I'd b***h if I had to walk around for hours while being held at gunpoint by a whacked out young man hopped up on the wraith enzyme in serverly radioactive sun too!

Duet: Uh, see episode plot!

Condemned: He is NOT McGuyver!

Trinity: If he succeeded GOOD JOB, but he FAILED! BAD RODNEY!

Instinct: once again cute scene with the little boy!

Conversion: not much Rodney

Aurora: Refuses to leave John in the VR! Go Teyla on the STALLING to CALDWELL!

Lost Boys: not wanting to help Ford was cool!

Hive: Overdosing to get out of there to help his team!

Epiphany: yes he was RUDE and IMPATIENT with Teyla and Ronon cause he knew what was going on!

Critical Mass: still freaked out by Cadman...go figure

Grace Under Pressure! He went in the jumper so Radek, who hates flying wouldn't have to, the he almost dies at the bottom pf the ocean!

the Tower: I don't like this one (Sorry!)

Long Goodbye: admits he made a mistake to Caldwell

Coup d'etat: Tries to be G.I. Joe

Michael: Sorry don't like this one either!

Inferno: Yes Rodney SAVES THE DAY!

Allies: oops everyone

No Mans Land: Go Everybody

Misbegotten: oops everybody!

Irresistible: Lucious: the happy go lucky RAPIST in the universe!

Sateda: yes he was Grumpy in this ep! he got shot in the butt with an ARROW!

Progeny: Un-ancienty! hee, hee

the Real World: not much Rodney!

Common Ground: sad team

McKay and Mrs. Miller: Let's crap all over Rodney

Phantoms: everybody got boo boo's

Return p-1: Team goes BYE BYE

Return p-2: Rodney and Jack save the day!

Echoes: AWwww cute ep

Irresponsible: bye bye Koyla

TAO of Rodney: his name is in the tittle!

the Game: John and Rodney start a civil war (oops)

the Ark: the "HOW SCREWED WE ARE REPORT"

Sunday: sniffles

Submersion: Ronon and Radek started it!

Vengeance: Rambo Rodney

First Strike: Rodney's first dealings with Ellis

Adrift: not backing down to John!

Lifeline: Ripping off the Replicators

Reunion: John is a D**K to Rodney! (Ronon can't bring his Friends to Atlantis, but Teyla can? (SEER)

Doppleganger: John/Rodney both save the day!

Travlers: Bimbo alert

Tabula Rasa: everyone saves the day

Missing: Girl Power!

Seer: WTF

Millers Crossing: Let's dump guilt on Rodney even though this was not his fault!

This Mortal Coil: go team! all 9 of you!

Be All My Sins Remember'd: Yes Rodney saves the day!

Spoils of War: Go Teyla

Quarantine: Go everyone BUT Rodney

Harmony: Unerstay!!!

Outcast: being a good friend!

Trio: He helps save the day

Midway: knowingly KILLS his best friend (or so we think)

Kindred p-1: looses Teyla, gains Carson

Kindred p-2: looks for Teyla

Last Man: tries to save the universe, and he does it!

Rodney complains about people and the intelligence because it makes him mad when people don't use their brains!

He is brash and standoffish cause people have hurt him before in the past!

John, Teyla, Ronon, Radek, have seen his warts and mood swings his rude behavior and guess what they Like him!

okay I'm done!

Linda06
June 7th, 2008, 06:16 AM
That's why i' starting to take a disliking to Rodney.....It's always Rodney Rodney Rodney..Rodney almost always saves the universe,Rodney gets all the emotional eps where the others get the action eps...To me it feels like it's turning into the Rodney McKay show to the detriment of the others...

All TPTB seem to be interested in is their golden boy McKay and they don't seem to be interested in writing properly for the others so their development has stalled...

So i really hope S5 can get back on track by having the others actually do something instead of being sidekicks of Rodney McKay while he whines and moans and groans his way through an episode!

Brewsy
June 7th, 2008, 08:55 AM
so what? rodney is still the #1 character on atlantis.
dont get me wrong, shep, teyla, ronon, keller, raddik, etc are all still important, but if you count who has the most lines, who is doing the most in atlantis, who is "saving the day" the most -- you end up with Mckay.
so what if he doesnt have good relationships with every1 else? hes a socially awkward genius. but it has been shown on numerous occasions that he does think of every1 in atlantis as a family, and that every1 in atlantis has come to trust and rely on him (even love him-- as weir and shep say in "the tao of rodney")

make all the comments you want, but he is still the #1 character.
"you know, lets talk about it for a really long time, and that will fix it for sure!" -Mckay

bluealien
June 7th, 2008, 10:05 AM
so what? rodney is still the #1 character on atlantis.
dont get me wrong, shep, teyla, ronon, keller, raddik, etc are all still important, but if you count who has the most lines, who is doing the most in atlantis, who is "saving the day" the most -- you end up with Mckay.
so what if he doesnt have good relationships with every1 else? hes a socially awkward genius. but it has been shown on numerous occasions that he does think of every1 in atlantis as a family, and that every1 in atlantis has come to trust and rely on him (even love him-- as weir and shep say in "the tao of rodney")

make all the comments you want, but he is still the #1 character.
"you know, lets talk about it for a really long time, and that will fix it for sure!" -Mckay

He may be the number one charcter on SGA for you and this is fine, but he is not the number one charcter on SGA for me. I don't care how much screentime or lines he gets, I find him annoying and overbearing a lot of the time. Too much focus in on him and sometimes I think the writers forget about the rest of the team and especially the so called lead of the show Sheppard. McKay is everywhere and coming up with his last minute plan to save the day nearly all the time. A lot of the time the others are reduced to Rodney's sidekick whom he either belittles or babbles non stop to.
Most of the emotion seems to come from Rodney on the show.. can no one else say how they feel. As I said before the writers use McKay as their emotional crutch because they don't seem to be able to write anything but one liners most of the time for the others.

Why is there such a huge imbalance in the show between Rodney and the rest of the team with regards to screentime, dialogue and anything meaningful or emotional. We will get another Rodney is dying so everyone can tear up over him again episode.... again why is it no one seems to be able to show any kind of feelings or emotion when other characters are involved. I would like to see Sheppard and the others have some good meaty dialogue that wasnt revolved around McKay for once.

Klenotka
June 7th, 2008, 12:01 PM
I don´t want to argue but for me, it seems that Sheppard us usually the hero. McKay makes the hard work but it´s Sheppard who is the hero in the end. Truly, Mckay saves the day, yes, but they make it look like that Sheppard was the one who saved them all.

jenks
June 7th, 2008, 01:21 PM
http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h235/buefo/HarmonyPainting.jpg

Klenotka
June 7th, 2008, 02:51 PM
Oh, yeah, right, I forgot. ONCE, in Harmony. I loved the end of Harmony by the way.

Cautious Explorer
June 7th, 2008, 04:05 PM
He may be the number one charcter on SGA for you and this is fine, but he is not the number one charcter on SGA for me. I don't care how much screentime or lines he gets, I find him annoying and overbearing a lot of the time. Too much focus in on him and sometimes I think the writers forget about the rest of the team and especially the so called lead of the show Sheppard. McKay is everywhere and coming up with his last minute plan to save the day nearly all the time. A lot of the time the others are reduced to Rodney's sidekick whom he either belittles or babbles non stop to.
Most of the emotion seems to come from Rodney on the show.. can no one else say how they feel. As I said before the writers use McKay as their emotional crutch because they don't seem to be able to write anything but one liners most of the time for the others.

Why is there such a huge imbalance in the show between Rodney and the rest of the team with regards to screentime, dialogue and anything meaningful or emotional. We will get another Rodney is dying so everyone can tear up over him again episode.... again why is it no one seems to be able to show any kind of feelings or emotion when other characters are involved. I would like to see Sheppard and the others have some good meaty dialogue that wasnt revolved around McKay for once.

I agree. I think it's because they identify with Rodney so much. In their perfect little world Rodney can be obnoxious and abrasive and everyone finds it quirky and loves him anyway. No need for Rodney to waste time thinking of how his comments might affect others, they love him regardless. Rodney's brilliance makes him indispensable, even though he's in a city full of geniouses. Talk about working out your own insecurities in your writing. :cool: And now they're even starting to write young girls falling in love with him (Harmony, Keller)

PG15
June 7th, 2008, 07:38 PM
I'm assuming by "they", you mean the other characters. If so, then you do realize that people complain when others DON'T love him, right? There are a lot of complaints about The Pegasus Project and McKay And Mrs. Miller that pretty much focuses on how some of the others don't treat him with respect. And those are just the most obvious examples. Isn't this whole thread about how Rodney doesn't fit into the team, nor is he supergood friends with everyone like the SG1 of old?

No, they DON'T all love him nor do they find him lovable. Still, he is important, and a member of the team.



...again why is it no one seems to be able to show any kind of feelings or emotion when other characters are involved. I would like to see Sheppard and the others have some good meaty dialogue that wasnt revolved around McKay for once.

This is a strange complaint. People talk about/emote over other characters and stuff all the time. A lot of Adrift was focused on Elizabeth and her plight; Reunion was for Ronon; there was virtually no Rodney in Missing or Outcast; The Seer was all about Carter and the situation at hand; there was a lot of Carson and Teyla in the Kindred 2-parter; etc. etc.

Sure, Rodney gets his special episodes, just like everyone else. The Shrine is his for Season 5. What's wrong with that?

fumblesmcstupid
June 7th, 2008, 11:15 PM
yes let's talk about The Pegasus Project and McKay and Mrs. Miller!

Sheppard gave Mitchel a LEMON! Rodney is ALLERGIC to LEMON'S! Sheppard should have just told Mitchell to hold 9mm to Rodney's head and say "do it or die!!"

In Redemption Sam and Rodney pretty much buried the hatchet, and yet she shows up and BAM!! she is back to treating Rodney like crap!

Now in McKay and Mrs Miller Jeanie was a mean vindictive B***H to Rodney! and In that ep his friends treated him like CRAP!

Now let's think about how many times John, Teyla, or Ronon or Radek have been made fun of or made out to be the but of a joke!

Radek was painted by the kids in Critical Mass (geek)

ummmm hmmmmm ummmmmmmmmmmmmm nope can't think of any for John, Teyla or Ronon!

Ya wanna know why? Cause they are the cool kids.... the jocks!! The three of them work out and are good looking!

Rodney is the geek, the dork, the dweeb! so HE gets picked on and his sister makes it so HE is left out and then talks about Rodney wetting the bed and being bullied at school! and his so called "Friends " Laugh at him!

There is a difference of being "MEAN" and not showing respect!

Ellis Thinks Rodney is a jerk and arrogant in BAMSR he even calls him on it. at the end of the ep Ellis was impressed by what Rodney did to stop the Replicators!

I ADORE Rodney!

I know people DON'T like Rodney and they think he is the weakest link...to each his own!

I will keep on defending the GREAT ONE WITH BIG EGO AND BRAIN!

so on his behalf....I am so ready! Bring!.....IT.....ON!

PBBBBT (sticks out my tongue and goes na na na na na)

metabog
June 7th, 2008, 11:47 PM
Do you see Baltar "bonding" with anyone? No.
Did you see Quark from DS9 bonding with anyone? No.

Rodney is the same. We can't all be friends, it's called diversity.

ykickamoocow
June 8th, 2008, 01:26 AM
Do you see Baltar "bonding" with anyone? No.
Did you see Quark from DS9 bonding with anyone? No.

Rodney is the same. We can't all be friends, it's called diversity.

Baltar doesnt have any friends but the difference between him and McKay is Baltar doesnt even attempt to be friends with anyone. Baltar couldnt care less about anyone other than himself and has often been shown risking other peoples lives because he couldnt be bothered doing something.

McKay however does try and make friends (though he isnt very good at it) and he works extremely hard in order to save the lives of all the people he knows. We have never seen and will never see McKay risking other people's lives because he couldnt be bothered.

fumblesmcstupid
June 8th, 2008, 01:30 AM
Rules of Aquisition #1 There are no friends only Money

Baltar gave up his WORLD and KILLED 99.9% of the HUMAN RACE!

Rodney is RUDE and SNARKY! Not a Murderer or Greedy! Might have a Gambling problem!!

ykickamoocow
June 11th, 2008, 10:38 PM
Here is something interesting on Jason Mamoa's impression of Ronon's and McKay's relationship.

GW: There was a line in "Quarantine" about how she reminded him of ...

JM: My wife. Yeah, I don't know. I think it needs to be more of Ronon and Sheppard fighting over a woman. That would be more fun. Because me and McKay aren't friends in the first place. It's a mutual respect, but we love-hate each other. I don't want to say I love ... but I care for Sheppard. He's my best friend. So that would make it a little more interesting.

stclare
June 12th, 2008, 03:09 AM
Here is something interesting on Jason Mamoa's impression of Ronon's and McKay's relationship.

GW: There was a line in "Quarantine" about how she reminded him of ...

JM: My wife. Yeah, I don't know. I think it needs to be more of Ronon and Sheppard fighting over a woman. That would be more fun. Because me and McKay aren't friends in the first place. It's a mutual respect, but we love-hate each other. I don't want to say I love ... but I care for Sheppard. He's my best friend. So that would make it a little more interesting.

Thats a pretty sad statement to make. Although I didnt enjoy this interview at all so ignore me :(

KindlyKeller
June 12th, 2008, 03:25 AM
Yeah, some depressing insights in this interview. We've debated Ronon's hostility toward McKay in the past, but this interview was pretty definitive on that front. Jason seems almost annoyed to have scenes with Rodney. Not that there's anything wrong with that preference; he's entitled to enjoy or not enjoy any of the material given to him. It's just depressing as a fan.

thekillman
June 12th, 2008, 04:47 AM
i said it before and ill say it again: rodney is what makes SGA SGA and not SG1 where the whole team is happy, nice and successfull. rodney makes things much more interesting. and that OMG face. adorable! so he needs to stay

ykickamoocow
June 12th, 2008, 06:01 AM
Thats a pretty sad statement to make. Although I didnt enjoy this interview at all so ignore me :(

I agree. Jason Momoa spent alot of the interview saying very negative things.



Yeah, some depressing insights in this interview. We've debated Ronon's hostility toward McKay in the past, but this interview was pretty definitive on that front. Jason seems almost annoyed to have scenes with Rodney. Not that there's anything wrong with that preference; he's entitled to enjoy or not enjoy any of the material given to him. It's just depressing as a fan.

Does anyone know if Jason Momoa and David Hewlett get along as i seems like he doesnt want to have scenes with Rodney as i would mean having to spend time with David Hewlett.

It is something the writers really have to work on. We are not asking for McKay and Ronon to be best of friends who tell each other everything but abit of friendship would be nice.

KindlyKeller
June 12th, 2008, 06:09 AM
I'm not sure if it's that he doesn't like David, or just the fact that he and Joe are really, really close. Maybe it's not our business. But it makes me sad, because they've had some good scenes together and I was hoping for more. Even when I DO see said scenes now, it'll always be in the back of my mind that he's not crazy about doing them.

Killdeer
June 12th, 2008, 07:31 AM
I don't know that we can assume that Jason doesn't like David. I think I have read interviews talking about the three of them horsing around and goofing off. I've always had the impression that Jason and David got along just fine.

As far as Ronon goes, however, this interview makes me sad. Not that it's anything I haven't already said or believed, but I guess I just didn't want to be right. :( I adore Rodney - he will always be my central character on this show. Even though I love Sheppard nearly as much as Rodney (maybe just as much) I came to my love for Sheppard through his relationship with Rodney, not the other way around. Probably part of my love for Elizabeth and Carson and my greater difficulty connecting with Ronon and Teyla had a great deal to do with their relationships with Rodney as I perceived them to be portrayed on the screen. Rodney's friends were Sheppard, Elizabeth, Carson, and Radek. Elizabeth and Carson were killed off and Radek is recurring, so that left Rodney with Sheppard as his only real anchor point. I've said before that I felt like he was somewhat adrift last season, and I kind of still believe it.

I did feel like they were building a Ronon & Rodney relationship in the latter half of S3, with scenes in episodes like Tao, The Game, Sunday, and Vengeance. Unfortunately that was all pretty much abandoned in S4. :(

Rac80
June 20th, 2008, 12:48 PM
Yeah, some depressing insights in this interview. We've debated Ronon's hostility toward McKay in the past, but this interview was pretty definitive on that front. Jason seems almost annoyed to have scenes with Rodney. Not that there's anything wrong with that preference; he's entitled to enjoy or not enjoy any of the material given to him. It's just depressing as a fan.

I am not surprised, would you want to be in scenes where the character you are playing is constantly belittled by another character? Can't say I blame the man. Rodney has absolutely no respect for others in general and Ronon in particular. That is why I dislike Rodney, he is such a jerk to other people. Only when faced with his own mortality ( the Tao of Rodney) does he act nice, but then once the danger is over he quickly returns to form.

Linda06
June 20th, 2008, 12:51 PM
I am not surprised, would you want to be in scenes where the character you are playing is constantly belittled by another character? Can't say I blame the man. Rodney has absolutely no respect for others in general and Ronon in particular. That is why I dislike Rodney, he is such a jerk to other people. Only when faced with his own mortality ( the Tao of Rodney) does he act nice, but then once the danger is over he quickly returns to form.

Yup pretty much sums up Rodney......I admire Ronon's restraint,if it was me i would have shot Rodney a long time ago :o

jenks
June 20th, 2008, 01:14 PM
I am not surprised, would you want to be in scenes where the character you are playing is constantly belittled by another character? Can't say I blame the man.

As an actor? As if you'd care.


Rodney has absolutely no respect for others in general and Ronon in particular. That is why I dislike Rodney, he is such a jerk to other people. Only when faced with his own mortality ( the Tao of Rodney) does he act nice, but then once the danger is over he quickly returns to form.


Nonsense. Now whether he shows it or not is another matter. Rodney is not a people person, and doesn't really care too much when he annoys people. But when he realises he has genuinely upset someone it bothers him, and you can tell.

bluealien
June 20th, 2008, 01:52 PM
As an actor? As if you'd care.



Nonsense. Now whether he shows it or not is another matter. Rodney is not a people person, and doesn't really care too much when he annoys people. But when he realises he has genuinely upset someone it bothers him, and you can tell.

If he doesn't show it how do you know it bothers him. Rodney treats most people like they are not worth the time of day, including Radek, but then when he is faced with his own motality he seems to find a conscience for a few moments, but usually reverts back to his condesending snarky self in the next ep. Rodney spends most of his time belittling those around him, including his team mates but we are meant to feel sorry for him because his own sister teases him...

jenks
June 20th, 2008, 02:00 PM
If he doesn't show it how do you know it bothers him. Rodney treats most people like they are not worth the time of day, including Radek, but then when he is faced with his own motality he seems to find a conscience for a few moments, but usually reverts back to his condesending snarky self in the next ep. Rodney spends most of his time belittling those around him, including his team mates but we are meant to feel sorry for him because his own sister teases him...

How do I know that what bothers him?

KindlyKeller
June 20th, 2008, 05:46 PM
I won't even argue, because it's not worth it. Rodney deals in hyperbole that everyone knows he doesn't mean. Ronon genuinely dislikes and is hostile toward McKay. But that's just my opinion, I guess.

Rac80
June 20th, 2008, 08:52 PM
If he doesn't show it how do you know it bothers him. Rodney treats most people like they are not worth the time of day, including Radek, but then when he is faced with his own motality he seems to find a conscience for a few moments, but usually reverts back to his condesending snarky self in the next ep. Rodney spends most of his time belittling those around him, including his team mates but we are meant to feel sorry for him because his own sister teases him...

ITA!!! He is a "mean little man" and needs to grow up quite a bit. When his sister asks him about Katie, she says how lucky Rodney was to find her and what does he do in quarantine? go all hypochondriac (which is a narcissic personality disorder) and then ditches her. :S:S not a person I would want around for any length of time!

jenks
June 20th, 2008, 08:56 PM
She was with him for a year.

Rac80
June 20th, 2008, 08:57 PM
She was with him for a year.

And she would still be with him if he hadn't mucked it up! I actually liked them together. she humanized him.

KindlyKeller
June 20th, 2008, 11:18 PM
My sister is a mild hypochondriac and is a wonderful person with no sign of narcissism. It's just insecurity and fear, not an "I'm the center of all living things" mentality. You keep throwing out a lot of crazy generalizations like this...

stclare
June 21st, 2008, 12:41 AM
I think the weakest thing about Rodney is the inconsistency of the writing for him.

Everytime He moves a step closer to the more mature Rodney I like, the writers make him take 2 steps back. It also doesnt help that I always feel like Rodney is always hovering around the fringes of being friends with the team. Its like he should feel greatfull for being included sometimes, it just feels off to me after all this time.

I hope season 5 sticks with the more mature and competent guy i saw glimpses of through all 4 seasons.

So Rodneys my fave character and is in the main the only reason I stuck through with Atlantis, so hes not the weakest link to me.

Rac80
June 22nd, 2008, 07:44 AM
I just think Rodney is such a poorly-written character with so many psychoses that he is destined to be the weakest link.

PG15
June 23rd, 2008, 03:45 PM
I don't see how "poorly written" is connected with him having so many psychoses.

Rac80
June 23rd, 2008, 03:53 PM
In regards to S & R
I can say as a woman who has exerienced labor pains...if some guy started whining about his kidney stone during it... I would have been waaaaaay meaner than Teyla was. :P But that also is a prime example of how Mckay is the weakest link. :S Talk about self-involved!

KindlyKeller
June 23rd, 2008, 08:33 PM
You're misinterpreting what the OP meant by the weakest link. He was simply describing how McKay's only strong friendship is with Sheppard, while Shep, Teyla, and Ronon are all close.

starfox
June 24th, 2008, 02:12 AM
I agree with stclare that it's not so much that McKay is the weakest link that it is the writers constantly choose to go the comic relief route instead of giving him a real "moment" with Ronon or Teyla. In S&R the kidney stone moment is a perfect example of this. There was a great opportunity for him to have a moment with Teyla, maybe apologize for not knowing how to comfort her, tie in the situation with the fact that he wasn't there for Jeannie. Instead, they choose to go with bumbling and complete lack of tact of social skills.

Teyla's pregnancy was a great opportunity for the writers to move Rodney's relationship with the other characters forward. He wasn't there for Jeannie when she was pregnant with Madison, we could have seen him try to make up for it here. Although I did love the moment where Rodney gave Teyla the ipod with his lectures. For a character like him, for whom knowledge is everything, an early start on learning is pretty much the best gift he could think of to give.

Jason's comments in the interview disheartened me because good actors have a pretty good grasp on character chemistry, and the fact that Jason doesn't see much of a relationship with McKay means that one really hasn't been built.

I'd kind of love to see an episode where Sheppard's laid out in the infirmary and Ronon, Teyla and McKay have to do things on their own. Mainly because I want a scene where McKay and Ronon acknowledge their lack of relationship. "Look, I know you wish Sheppard were here so you all could engage in some gung-ho heroics, but he's not and you can't (insert crazy plan here) on your own so you're just gonna have to wait for me to fix this! If I'm not done in five minutes, we'll try it your way." Then Teyla convinces Ronon to listen to McKay. He can't fix things totally, but he finds something useful that gives an adapted version of Ronon's plan a chance to work. It would be so easy to do and go such a long way towards building a stronger team, instead of one week of the McShep show followed by a week of Sheppard and Co., oh yeah, and Rodney's along for the ride, too.

The scene where Ronon tried to teach Rodney to fight was engineered to make Rodney look foolish. How about a more serious scene where Teyla teaches Rodney some stick technique? We can see him be bad at it, so long as he's bad in a believable way; like someone who's a beginner, not like someone who's never seen a stick before in his life. How about a moment where he tells Teyla he's hopeless and should just go back to the lab and Teyla points out that he may need the skills. Maybe a pointed comment about how quitting is unlike him.

Or hey, what about a moment where McKay gets injured and tells Ronon and Teyla to leave him behind. "If it were one of you, it would be no problem, you're good at the stoicism in the face of blinding pain thing. Me, not so much. Go, get help. I'll be here." Or maybe an instance where they're off-world and he tells them "Hey, you know these people better than I do." Just an acknowledgement of their skills would go so far towards creating a stronger team. I've always loved that Atlantis is an ensemble show, but I feel like with the addition of new characters and move away from some of the central relationships, it's falling away from the things that make the ensemble great.


One of the things I love about Atlantis is the fusion of military/action elements and science elements. You can save the day with an explosion, but it takes some fancy scientific footwork to make that explosion work. I want to get back to that, using all of their skills to save the day.

ykickamoocow
June 24th, 2008, 04:27 AM
I agree with stclare that it's not so much that McKay is the weakest link that it is the writers constantly choose to go the comic relief route instead of giving him a real "moment" with Ronon or Teyla. In S&R the kidney stone moment is a perfect example of this. There was a great opportunity for him to have a moment with Teyla, maybe apologize for not knowing how to comfort her, tie in the situation with the fact that he wasn't there for Jeannie. Instead, they choose to go with bumbling and complete lack of tact of social skills.


I have to agree with that statement though it wasnt as ad as i expect. I half expect writers to make McKay faint.




Teyla's pregnancy was a great opportunity for the writers to move Rodney's relationship with the other characters forward. He wasn't there for Jeannie when she was pregnant with Madison, we could have seen him try to make up for it here. Although I did love the moment where Rodney gave Teyla the ipod with his lectures. For a character like him, for whom knowledge is everything, an early start on learning is pretty much the best gift he could think of to give.


Yes. McKay was the only team member not there when Teyla said that she was pregnant.




Jason's comments in the interview disheartened me because good actors have a pretty good grasp on character chemistry, and the fact that Jason doesn't see much of a relationship with McKay means that one really hasn't been built.


Yes i didnt like those comments either. Other than "Tao of Rodney and "No Mans Land Part 2"" McKay and Ronon havent had any scenes together without anyone else which is rather sad in over 3 seasons. Also when you look at it McKay and Teyla have had even fewer scenes with each other over the 4 seasons of Atlantis.




I'd kind of love to see an episode where Sheppard's laid out in the infirmary and Ronon, Teyla and McKay have to do things on their own. Mainly because I want a scene where McKay and Ronon acknowledge their lack of relationship. "Look, I know you wish Sheppard were here so you all could engage in some gung-ho heroics, but he's not and you can't (insert crazy plan here) on your own so you're just gonna have to wait for me to fix this! If I'm not done in five minutes, we'll try it your way." Then Teyla convinces Ronon to listen to McKay. He can't fix things totally, but he finds something useful that gives an adapted version of Ronon's plan a chance to work. It would be so easy to do and go such a long way towards building a stronger team, instead of one week of the McShep show followed by a week of Sheppard and Co., oh yeah, and Rodney's along for the ride, too.


I had a similar suggestion on another thread but alot of people shot the idea down as they didnt like the idea of Sheppard not being in the team for one episode. I do love the idea though as a episode where for whatever reason Sheppard cant go on the mission and the rest of the team (McKay, Teyla and Ronon) still have to go. A episode like that could be great for improving the relationships of McKay and Ronon and McKay and Teyla.




The scene where Ronon tried to teach Rodney to fight was engineered to make Rodney look foolish. How about a more serious scene where Teyla teaches Rodney some stick technique? We can see him be bad at it, so long as he's bad in a believable way; like someone who's a beginner, not like someone who's never seen a stick before in his life. How about a moment where he tells Teyla he's hopeless and should just go back to the lab and Teyla points out that he may need the skills. Maybe a pointed comment about how quitting is unlike him.


Again another good idea. Teyla stick fights with everyone except McKay. It would also be a good way of having afew Teyla and McKay scenes. A scene in the episode "Tao of Rodney" which really annoyed me was the one where Sheppard was trying to help McKay meditate when the logical choice would be having Teyla help him meditate. Instead of helping improve Teyla and McKay's relationship the writers went for another McKay and Sheppard scene.




Or hey, what about a moment where McKay gets injured and tells Ronon and Teyla to leave him behind. "If it were one of you, it would be no problem, you're good at the stoicism in the face of blinding pain thing. Me, not so much. Go, get help. I'll be here." Or maybe an instance where they're off-world and he tells them "Hey, you know these people better than I do." Just an acknowledgement of their skills would go so far towards creating a stronger team. I've always loved that Atlantis is an ensemble show, but I feel like with the addition of new characters and move away from some of the central relationships, it's falling away from the things that make the ensemble great.


Again another good idea. Another idea in a similar vein is having McKay sacrifice himself to save the team, the team thinks McKay is dead and we get to see how they would react to McKay's death. Obviously McKay wouldnt die but Daniel Jackson has been thought dead on several occasions so it wouldnt be hard for the writers to make it so McKay didnt actually die. Then when the team find out that McKay didnt actually die the rest of the team learn to appreciate McKay more.




One of the things I love about Atlantis is the fusion of military/action elements and science elements. You can save the day with an explosion, but it takes some fancy scientific footwork to make that explosion work. I want to get back to that, using all of their skills to save the day.

Agreed.

Rac80
June 25th, 2008, 08:09 AM
I have to agree with that statement though it wasnt as ad as i expect. I half expect writers to make McKay faint.


Yes. McKay was the only team member not there when Teyla said that she was pregnant.

Yes i didnt like those comments either. Other than "Tao of Rodney and "No Mans Land Part 2"" McKay and Ronon havent had any scenes together without anyone else which is rather sad in over 3 seasons. Also when you look at it McKay and Teyla have had even fewer scenes with each other over the 4 seasons of Atlantis.


I had a similar suggestion on another thread but alot of people shot the idea down as they didnt like the idea of Sheppard not being in the team for one episode. I do love the idea though as a episode where for whatever reason Sheppard cant go on the mission and the rest of the team (McKay, Teyla and Ronon) still have to go. A episode like that could be great for improving the relationships of McKay and Ronon and McKay and Teyla.

Again another good idea. Teyla stick fights with everyone except McKay. It would also be a good way of having afew Teyla and McKay scenes. A scene in the episode "Tao of Rodney" which really annoyed me was the one where Sheppard was trying to help McKay meditate when the logical choice would be having Teyla help him meditate. Instead of helping improve Teyla and McKay's relationship the writers went for another McKay and Sheppard scene.


Again another good idea. Another idea in a similar vein is having McKay sacrifice himself to save the team, the team thinks McKay is dead and we get to see how they would react to McKay's death. Obviously McKay wouldnt die but Daniel Jackson has been thought dead on several occasions so it wouldnt be hard for the writers to make it so McKay didnt actually die. Then when the team find out that McKay didnt actually die the rest of the team learn to appreciate McKay more.


Agreed.

as I said... being a poorly written character leads into Rodney having little bonds formed with Ronon and Teyla, the writers constantly playing up his psychosis for laughs, and leaves him the weakest link. simple as that.

Pandora's_Box
June 25th, 2008, 11:17 AM
I agree with stclare that it's not so much that McKay is the weakest link that it is the writers constantly choose to go the comic relief route instead of giving him a real "moment" with Ronon or Teyla. In S&R the kidney stone moment is a perfect example of this. There was a great opportunity for him to have a moment with Teyla, maybe apologize for not knowing how to comfort her, tie in the situation with the fact that he wasn't there for Jeannie. Instead, they choose to go with bumbling and complete lack of tact of social skills.

But that's not Rodney. He doesn't talk about feelings or regrets at the flip of a switch. He fumbles and he mumbles in uncomfortable situations, he doesn't comfort or apologise for ineptitude.

The only times he's spoken about his feelings has been after a life/death or other horrible situation. "Trinity" comes to mind when he apologised to Sheppard. "McKay and Mrs.Miller" when he hugged his sister. "Tao of Rodney" when he thought he was dying. "The Last Man" when Jennifer was dying and everyone else was already dead.



Teyla's pregnancy was a great opportunity for the writers to move Rodney's relationship with the other characters forward. He wasn't there for Jeannie when she was pregnant with Madison, we could have seen him try to make up for it here. Although I did love the moment where Rodney gave Teyla the ipod with his lectures. For a character like him, for whom knowledge is everything, an early start on learning is pretty much the best gift he could think of to give.

That little gesture on his part was so Rodney-like and I loved it. That said, I don't see how much more Rodney could have plausibly done. He's simply not the type of guy to be comfortable around a pregnant woman. So all we would have seen from him would have been more fumbling and comic relief. I'm actually glad we were spared that.



Jason's comments in the interview disheartened me because good actors have a pretty good grasp on character chemistry, and the fact that Jason doesn't see much of a relationship with McKay means that one really hasn't been built.

Disregarding my own personal opinions on who the good actors are, I'll have to agree that I was pretty disheartened by his comments. For the simple fact that I don't really agree with him about the extent to which the two characters don't get along.



I'd kind of love to see an episode where Sheppard's laid out in the infirmary and Ronon, Teyla and McKay have to do things on their own. Mainly because I want a scene where McKay and Ronon acknowledge their lack of relationship. "Look, I know you wish Sheppard were here so you all could engage in some gung-ho heroics, but he's not and you can't (insert crazy plan here) on your own so you're just gonna have to wait for me to fix this! If I'm not done in five minutes, we'll try it your way." Then Teyla convinces Ronon to listen to McKay. He can't fix things totally, but he finds something useful that gives an adapted version of Ronon's plan a chance to work. It would be so easy to do and go such a long way towards building a stronger team, instead of one week of the McShep show followed by a week of Sheppard and Co., oh yeah, and Rodney's along for the ride, too.

I think
we should be seeing some of that in "Trackers" with Ronon and Rodney off to save Jennifer from some evil foe. My distaste at the old damsel-in-distress scenario aside, that episode should make for some good Ronon/Rodney moments.



The scene where Ronon tried to teach Rodney to fight was engineered to make Rodney look foolish. How about a more serious scene where Teyla teaches Rodney some stick technique? We can see him be bad at it, so long as he's bad in a believable way; like someone who's a beginner, not like someone who's never seen a stick before in his life. How about a moment where he tells Teyla he's hopeless and should just go back to the lab and Teyla points out that he may need the skills. Maybe a pointed comment about how quitting is unlike him.

I'm all for that. Except that I don't want to start seeing super-fighter Rodney McKay. Or even able-fighter Rodney McKay. He's not a soldier and he'd be the first person to remind us of that.



Or hey, what about a moment where McKay gets injured and tells Ronon and Teyla to leave him behind. "If it were one of you, it would be no problem, you're good at the stoicism in the face of blinding pain thing. Me, not so much. Go, get help. I'll be here."

They'd never leave anybody behind if they could help it.



Or maybe an instance where they're off-world and he tells them "Hey, you know these people better than I do." Just an acknowledgement of their skills would go so far towards creating a stronger team. I've always loved that Atlantis is an ensemble show, but I feel like with the addition of new characters and move away from some of the central relationships, it's falling away from the things that make the ensemble great.

I don't think that not constantly vocally recognizing somebody's skills means that Rodney doesn't recognize that those skills exist. What's more telling is that he leaves the Jumper flying to Shep, the fighting to Ronon, and the diplomacy with off-world people to Teyla. Actions speak louder than words. I don't need to hear him laud them with compliments to know that he appreciates what they do. He wouldn't have spent his entire life trying to save them in TLM if he didn't.

Pandora's_Box
June 25th, 2008, 11:23 AM
as I said... being a poorly written character leads into Rodney having little bonds formed with Ronon and Teyla, the writers constantly playing up his psychosis for laughs, and leaves him the weakest link. simple as that.

I'm beginning to wonder about all the people that continue to insist that Rodney is a poorly-written character. And I'm starting to wonder if people understand that one of his roles as a character on SGA is to provide comic-relief. There's nothing wrong with that. Every show has one and it doesn't necessarily mean that he can't be played as a serious character at other points in time.

His character is the butt of many jokes, true. His character provides the laughs, sometimes the idiocy, but his character has also provided some very poignant dramatic moments. That is not the definition of a poorly-written character.

If by poorly-written one means that the writers don't take into account his character's growth from one episode to the next, I think that a look at his character at the beginning of season 1 to the end of season 4 would say differently. Sure there have been some inconsistencies with portrayal in certain episodes (Quarantine comes to mind), but every character has suffered through that for the sake of certain plot elements. But overall, Rodney has certainly developed as a character. That's undeniable.

fumblesmcstupid
June 25th, 2008, 12:39 PM
We all have friends..right? I hope we all things in common with those friends!

J/R pop culture is their thing. plus they are both from the same planet!

J/RD/T being all soldiery and fighting is their thing

Rodney/Ronon FOOD is their thing

Rodney/Teyla She knows how to Handle Rodney (TaRa) and (S&R)

I think that if Teyla or Ronon had been with Rodney in Trio that ep would have been completely different!

You can't sit their and compartmentalize people's friendships!

Saying ONE person is the weakest is wrong!

Ronon said he needed to learn more science stuff....so why didn't he go hang out with Rodney and Radek?

Teyla knows where Rodney's Quarters are!

John is the only one to actively seek out Rodney!

So maybe you should spread the blame around!

JSPuddlejumper
June 25th, 2008, 05:54 PM
Rodney McKay = The Strongest Link.

The proof is self-evident.

Rac80
June 25th, 2008, 08:51 PM
Rodney McKay = The Strongest Link.

The proof is self-evident.

tis all in the eye of the beholder. and my eye beholds no such proof. The man is the weakest link......

jenks
June 25th, 2008, 09:08 PM
Hmmm, he's the best written character, and the most important character in the show... sounds like the strongest link to me.

fumblesmcstupid
June 26th, 2008, 01:47 PM
I feel really sad for all of these fans who just seem to naturally blame/bash/harp on McKay!

I bet if Rodney had been the one to Awake the Wraith, then it would be OPEN SEASON for insults and a whole lot more hate and constant rants and threads!

Yet the fact that Sheppard is the one to give the Wraith their wake up call, seems to go un-noticed!

Rodney has stated many times that he is petty, arrogant and bad with people!

he knows his faults and yet he still has friends!

These friends KNOW his faults and still like him!

Jumper_One
June 26th, 2008, 01:50 PM
Hmmm, he's the best written character, and the most important character in the show... sounds like the strongest link to me.

what about Shep?

starfox
June 26th, 2008, 05:23 PM
I'm beginning to wonder about all the people that continue to insist that Rodney is a poorly-written character. And I'm starting to wonder if people understand that one of his roles as a character on SGA is to provide comic-relief. There's nothing wrong with that. Every show has one and it doesn't necessarily mean that he can't be played as a serious character at other points in time.

His character is the butt of many jokes, true. His character provides the laughs, sometimes the idiocy, but his character has also provided some very poignant dramatic moments. That is not the definition of a poorly-written character.

If by poorly-written one means that the writers don't take into account his character's growth from one episode to the next, I think that a look at his character at the beginning of season 1 to the end of season 4 would say differently. Sure there have been some inconsistencies with portrayal in certain episodes (Quarantine comes to mind), but every character has suffered through that for the sake of certain plot elements. But overall, Rodney has certainly developed as a character. That's undeniable.


It's not that he's all-around poorly-written; he's a great character. It's that he's used as comic relief in instances where it's been established that he's grown past that, or used as comic relief in a purely slapstick sense when it's completely unneccessary. Like the scene where Ronon was teaching him to fight and he was wearing a martial arts uniform and completely covered in padding. I don't expect to see him without said outfit because I think he's awesome and a secret super-gangster, I expect to see him without said outfit because he's a grown man who should know how ridiculous it is. That's the kind of stunt I would expect from SG-1's Lee or Felger, not a main character. Having McKay copy Ronon's movements but much more sloppily and comically would have been just as funny and sidestepped the paranoia-overriding-common-sense moment.

I don't mind McKay being less than a superhero at times. I do, however, mind seeing a faux pas so bad that I have to turn the sound off on my television until the moment passes. It's little things, like when someone else has to cut off his "insulting comment, I didn't mean to be insulting I meant other insulting comment, well, not that but still insulting comment" rambles instead of him saying, "Wow and I need to stop talking now." It's not that I think he shouldn't still be funny and clueless, it's that no one is that clueless after four years of spending your time with adequately socialized individuals.

I think another problem is that Atlantis doesn't have a Felger or a Siler, although they seem to slowly be moving Zelenka in that direction. Rodney has to be the brilliant scientist/sometimes hero and the King of Awkward Social Situations, which makes his development sometimes seem like one step forward, two steps back. He'll care about people but he doesn't necessarily show that he respects them. Which is a very Rodney thing, but I think we still need a moment where he verbalizes that respect so that the audience can see it. It doesn't even have to be a heartfelt moment, just a simple "Yes, of course, I think you can do it, it's your thing. I wasn't aware that you needed to be told that, I thought you were somewhat more confident than a 13 year-old girl," would suffice.

Amalthea
June 26th, 2008, 08:45 PM
I haven't read every post in detail, so I apologize if I step on someone's toes.

The issue the writers have had to contend with in transposing Rodney from SG1 to Atlantis is that on SG1 he was a foil for Carter. He was written to get her scientific blood boiling so there could be amusing, smart-people banter between the two of them. He was there to provide an alternate explanation to events to enable more suspense and humour, but in the end, he was there to be wrong about everything.

So, while he could have faded away into SG1 oblivion, when Atlantis came about, they had an opportunity to bring him back since at the end of the day, he was rather entertaining and David Hewlett is a good actor. Therein lies the conundrum. They couldn't just make him instantly the All American, now could they? We wouldn't have accepted that. It was weird enough for him to generally be right about things!

I think they have done very well with Rodney. They have kept him true to his original story, while at the same time giving him a few heroic moments. I personally have enjoyed his character growth. It makes him and the show different from SG1. Deep down, he cares about the team and respects them all, he just has a different way of showing it.

So that'll be a resounding NO from me... Rodney is not the weakest link.

thekillman
June 27th, 2008, 12:45 AM
and i love his "amazed""or "OH NO" face. hilarious. hes good. i'd hate a second carter. mckay is a realistic representation of a smart guy

Rac80
July 6th, 2008, 08:01 AM
and i love his "amazed""or "OH NO" face. hilarious. hes good. i'd hate a second carter. mckay is a realistic representation of a smart guy

McKay is a representation of a caricature of "the smart guy". I know many scientific professional people and not a single one of them acts as asinine as Mckay does. As my hubby says (oh yes btw HE also has a PhD) "guys like that can't hold a job!" McKay is everything that is perceived as bad about scientists....selfish, awkward, and egotistical! That is definitely NOT a realistic view!

Linda06
July 6th, 2008, 03:50 PM
McKay is a representation of a caricature of "the smart guy". I know many scientific professional people and not a single one of them acts as asinine as Mckay does. As my hubby says (oh yes btw HE also has a PhD) "guys like that can't hold a job!" McKay is everything that is perceived as bad about scientists....selfish, awkward, and egotistical! That is definitely NOT a realistic view!

Don't forget his incessant whining....I can't imagine many scientists whine as much as he does even if they are in a dangerous situation ;)

ToasterOnFire
July 6th, 2008, 04:09 PM
McKay is a representation of a caricature of "the smart guy". I know many scientific professional people and not a single one of them acts as asinine as Mckay does. As my hubby says (oh yes btw HE also has a PhD) "guys like that can't hold a job!" McKay is everything that is perceived as bad about scientists....selfish, awkward, and egotistical! That is definitely NOT a realistic view!
Hmm...I've met plenty of scientists and I know of enough who would sacrifice and backstab others for the sake of their own research, who have awful personal/management skills, and who think their research is better than everyone else's. While McKay's attitude is obviously exaggerated for TV, I'd say that the fundamental attributes are indeed present in the scientific community.

Not that being selfish, awkward, and egotistical is limited to scientists, anyway. :D

Rac80
July 7th, 2008, 05:20 PM
Hmm...I've met plenty of scientists and I know of enough who would sacrifice and backstab others for the sake of their own research, who have awful personal/management skills, and who think their research is better than everyone else's. While McKay's attitude is obviously exaggerated for TV, I'd say that the fundamental attributes are indeed present in the scientific community.

Not that being selfish, awkward, and egotistical is limited to scientists, anyway. :D

IMHO you are wrong! but that is the point- it's all our opinions! we all look at issues from our own angles! the scientists I know (one of whom I am married to ;) ) are all well-adjusted ADULTS! :D

Reiko
July 7th, 2008, 08:58 PM
Not that being selfish, awkward, and egotistical is limited to scientists, anyway. :D

» Television producers for example ... :D

» But ITA. I don't think there is anything wrong with Rodney as a character other than he has suffered from overusage without Weir and Beckett to balance him.

Rac80
July 9th, 2008, 06:25 PM
» Television producers for example ... :D

» But ITA. I don't think there is anything wrong with Rodney as a character other than he has suffered from overusage without Weir and Beckett to balance him.

wow! I NEARLY agreed with you! ;) who would have thought???? But yes....there was waaaaaaaaaaaay overusage of Rodney!

stclare
July 10th, 2008, 12:57 AM
wow! I NEARLY agreed with you! ;) who would have thought???? But yes....there was waaaaaaaaaaaay overusage of Rodney!

Thats great now there can be waaaaay to much overusage of Keller, and we can all hate her instead :mckay: oops i think some people already do ;)

i dont think screen time is the issue for me, its the quality of the screen time that counts. Quarrie was a waste of an ep for Rodney as far as im concerned he had screen time but it was terrible. id rather see him less but with better quality and cosistency. the same with Keller I dread her as a regular because im concerned she will be used as a love crutch or worse.

so i still think Mckay is NOT the weakest link.

elliecat
July 10th, 2008, 06:03 AM
Thats great now there can be waaaaay to much overusage of Keller, and we can all hate her instead :mckay: oops i think some people already do ;)

i dont think screen time is the issue for me, its the quality of the screen time that counts. Quarrie was a waste of an ep for Rodney as far as im concerned he had screen time but it was terrible. id rather see him less but with better quality and cosistency. the same with Keller I dread her as a regular because im concerned she will be used as a love crutch or worse.

so i still think Mckay is NOT the weakest link.

I agree with this. And I don't think McKay is the weakest link at all. :mckayanime03:

stclare
July 10th, 2008, 07:54 AM
I agree with this. And I don't think McKay is the weakest link at all. :mckayanime03:

Its weird because I also think he is one of the best written charcters and has enjoyed some of the best development. i just despair when they forget that and regress him to make him fit the story.

Linda06
July 10th, 2008, 11:33 AM
Its weird because I also think he is one of the best written charcters and has enjoyed some of the best development. i just despair when they forget that and regress him to make him fit the story.

And therein lies the problem.....They are that focused on Rodney most of the time they forget that's there's other characters they need to write for!

Rac80
July 10th, 2008, 11:40 AM
And therein lies the problem.....They are that focused on Rodney most of the time they forget that's there's other characters they need to write for!

ITA! it turns into either the mckay show or the mcshep hour, either way it is not good for a group dynamic. :D

Reiko
July 10th, 2008, 03:44 PM
i just despair when they forget that and regress him to make him fit the story.

» Yup. Exactly.


it turns into either the mckay show or the mcshep hour

» Or the Jennikins hour :rolleyes:

ykickamoocow
July 21st, 2008, 05:17 AM
After watching "The Seed" i thought id post here

I really enjoyed the few scenes which McKay had with Teyla. When mcKay was quarantined Teyla was thoughtful enough to come to McKay's room to keep him in the loop about what was happening on Atlantis.

It was the first scene McKay and teyla have had together in quite a long time (i dont remember the last time they had a scene together before "The Seed") and it was good to see as they had good interaction.

jelgate
July 21st, 2008, 08:02 AM
Search & Rescue:P

ykickamoocow
July 21st, 2008, 08:08 AM
Search & Rescue:P

How could i forget that one :D

But my statement stands that McKay and teyla need more scenes together.

Rac80
July 21st, 2008, 09:15 AM
After watching "The Seed" i thought id post here

I really enjoyed the few scenes which McKay had with Teyla. When mcKay was quarantined Teyla was thoughtful enough to come to McKay's room to keep him in the loop about what was happening on Atlantis.

It was the first scene McKay and teyla have had together in quite a long time (i dont remember the last time they had a scene together before "The Seed") and it was good to see as they had good interaction.

I did enjoy that scene with Teyla and Rodney. We need more one-on-one interaction scenes like that with mckay if we are supposed to see him as a member of the team and not just "the biggest whiner". maybe there will be hope.... but I doubt it!

stclare
July 21st, 2008, 01:48 PM
I did enjoy that scene with Teyla and Rodney. We need more one-on-one interaction scenes like that with mckay if we are supposed to see him as a member of the team and not just "the biggest whiner". maybe there will be hope.... but I doubt it!

Rodney hasnt been in either eps as much this season compared two the first two of last season IMO. it seems the emphasis is on Shep and his hero complex.

Not that im complaining there may have been less of him in the Seed, but the scenes he was in, i felt were really well done, with little to no whining. his interactions with all the women was a lot more respectful and subdued compared to some earlier episodes. so though i dont feel i see as much of him what i have seen is well worth the trade off.

Linda06
July 21st, 2008, 01:54 PM
Rodney hasnt been in either eps as much this season compared two the first two of last season IMO. it seems the emphasis is on Shep and his hero complex.

Not that im complaining there may have been less of him in the Seed, but the scenes he was in, i felt were really well done, with little to no whining. his interactions with all the women was a lot more respectful and subdued compared to some earlier episodes. so though i dont feel i see as much of him what i have seen is well worth the trade off.

I actually quite liked him in the first two eps in S5.....He wasn't overly used,he has toned ack him whining greatly which i liked and his scenes with Teyla were really good.....And i almost forgot how much i miss the McKay/Carson banter.....Long may it continue like this....I may even start to like him again!

stclare
July 21st, 2008, 01:59 PM
I actually quite liked him in the first two eps in S5.....He wasn't overly used,he has toned ack him whining greatly which i liked and his scenes with Teyla were really good.....And i almost forgot how much i miss the McKay/Carson banter.....Long may it continue like this....I may even start to like him again!

I would have realy loved seeing Rodney

spoilery

rodney talking to carson in stasis it would have helped reinforce that they are meant to be best friends. that idea came out of left field to me in season 3 after sunday.

I agree as much as I love my Rodney I too hate it when they make him the whiney laugh monkey - theres no real need for it anymore.

To the bold, dont speak to soon you will jinx us ;)

Linda06
July 21st, 2008, 02:07 PM
I would have realy loved seeing Rodney

spoilery

rodney talking to carson in stasis it would have helped reinforce that they are meant to be best friends. that idea came out of left field to me in season 3 after sunday.

I agree as much as I love my Rodney I too hate it when they make him the whiney laugh monkey - theres no real need for it anymore.

To the bold, dont speak to soon you will jinx us ;)


Yeah that would have been nice....

I don't want them to get rid of the whining completely but i just thought they went way over the score with it in S4,so hopefully they've decided to tone it down :D

ohhh oops *tapes mouth shut*

stclare
July 21st, 2008, 02:38 PM
Yeah that would have been nice....

I don't want them to get rid of the whining completely but i just thought they went way over the score with it in S4,so hopefully they've decided to tone it down :D

ohhh oops *tapes mouth shut*

Now you've done it ;)

prepares ear plugs for next week ;)

Linda06
July 21st, 2008, 02:41 PM
Now you've done it ;)

prepares ear plugs for next week ;)

Well if i get enough Teyla next week he'll be off the hook ;)

Rac80
July 25th, 2008, 09:31 PM
Mckay exists, therefore he whines! and oh my heck did he ever in this ep! :eek:

KindlyKeller
July 25th, 2008, 09:58 PM
The whining in this episode was pretty darn minimal, if it existed at all.

jelgate
July 25th, 2008, 10:17 PM
I have to agree with Kindy. Their wasn't much whinning in this episode.

fumblesmcstupid
July 26th, 2008, 02:11 AM
Yep Rodney is just AWFUL in this episode!!

He stays up ALL NIGHT long trying to figure out how to help Ronon!!!!!!

Sits with RONON while he goes through detox.


What is Everyone's definition of Whining??

Maybe the people who Don't LIKE Rodney feel that every time Rodney opens his mouth he whines, or says more than three sentences it somehow becomes a Rodney Episode.

So maybe the people who like I said, hate Rodney are the weakest link?? hmmm

KindlyKeller
July 26th, 2008, 02:15 AM
Yeah, it's a bit much for people to be upset with him in this episode, especially big Ronon fans...

Rodney worked his tail off to find him, sat by the guy's bed when he was sleeping, and when he had the opportunity to be snarky to him (after Ronon made a comment upon waking up that he was going to punch him), he instead excitedly went to share the news that Ronon had woken up.

Linda06
July 26th, 2008, 07:37 AM
Yep Rodney is just AWFUL in this episode!!

He stays up ALL NIGHT long trying to figure out how to help Ronon!!!!!!

Sits with RONON while he goes through detox.


What is Everyone's definition of Whining??

Maybe the people who Don't LIKE Rodney feel that every time Rodney opens his mouth he whines, or says more than three sentences it somehow becomes a Rodney Episode.

So maybe the people who like I said, hate Rodney are the weakest link?? hmmm

Well i went from thinking he was ok to can't stand him in S4 to hmm maybe there's hope for him in in S5.....Did that make sense....

I thought there may have been a little bit of whining but not much...I mean let's face it,he wouldn't be Rodney if he didn't whine a little bit but it got really ridiculous in S4 with the whining but in S5 it's so far so good so maybe there's hope for him yet ;)

I'm just so glad they've toned down the whining in S5,i just hope for the rest of the season they don't resort back to S4 Rodney!

Rac80
July 26th, 2008, 10:11 AM
Well i went from thinking he was ok to can't stand him in S4 to hmm maybe there's hope for him in in S5.....Did that make sense....

I thought there may have been a little bit of whining but not much...I mean let's face it,he wouldn't be Rodney if he didn't whine a little bit but it got really ridiculous in S4 with the whining but in S5 it's so far so good so maybe there's hope for him yet ;)

I'm just so glad they've toned down the whining in S5,i just hope for the rest of the season they don't resort back to S4 Rodney!

I admit to having a "Zero Whine Tolerance"... I hear that tone of voice and my skin crawls! Rodney seems to excell at it and for unknown reasons some people think it is funny to hear a grown man whine! I am not one of those. I actually didn't mind rodney in the first two eps, but then he began whining again! IF they go back to no whine I will be thrilled! ;)

thekillman
July 26th, 2008, 12:36 PM
i love rodney whining. no whine, then whe have to check whether its not a shapeshifting alien

Linda06
July 26th, 2008, 12:38 PM
I admit to having a "Zero Whine Tolerance"... I hear that tone of voice and my skin crawls! Rodney seems to excell at it and for unknon reasons some people think it is funny to hear a grown man whine! I am not one of those. I actually didn't mind rodney in the first two eps, but then he began whining again! IF they go back to no whine I will be thrilled! ;)

Oh i don't find whining funny either....But a very small bit i can handle ;)

thekillman
July 26th, 2008, 12:41 PM
without rodney, and some carter type of replacement, it would become too much like SG1

Rac80
July 26th, 2008, 12:55 PM
Oh i don't find whining funny either....But a very small bit i can handle ;)

you are a better woman than I am... no whine...all the time! ;)

Linda06
July 26th, 2008, 01:13 PM
you are a better woman than I am... no whine...all the time! ;)

Well then...That's when the mute button comes in handy ;)

miniglik
July 26th, 2008, 01:32 PM
I admit to having a "Zero Whine Tolerance"... I hear that tone of voice and my skin crawls! Rodney seems to excell at it and for unknown reasons some people think it is funny to hear a grown man whine! I am not one of those. I actually didn't mind rodney in the first two eps, but then he began whining again! IF they go back to no whine I will be thrilled! ;)

See, I hear people say the same thing about Keller. In both cases I don't mind them. Like them both because they seem like real people with fears and foibles. (Of course every once in awhile I want to give McKay a swift kick to the rear.)

He wasn't whiny this week though, I thought.

KindlyKeller
July 26th, 2008, 03:07 PM
Exactly, miniglik. Keller whines too, in a similar tone of voice. I find it charming from both of them, in moderation, which I think both achieve.

I still think it's pretty unfair that McKay can't whine because he's a guy and Keller gets a free pass because she's a girl.

Rac80
July 26th, 2008, 06:19 PM
Well then...That's when the mute button comes in handy ;)

and my mute button activates the closed captioning so I don't miss any of the storyline. ;) Hopefully next week will have less whining and a more enjoyable ep! :D

(ok I admit I inhabit a fantasy world on that topic... but let me have my delusions! ;) )


Sorry Kindly but I see a world of difference between a young woman (in her 20's) and a (supposedly 40 ish) adult male whining! :S some things are just different! ;) "time passages" you know! What is cute at one age is simply annoying (or disgusting as the case may be) at another. Ever seen a gal or guy in their 50's dressing like they are 25? yeeech! :S Atleast IMHO!

Linda06
July 26th, 2008, 06:42 PM
and my mute button activates the closed captioning so I don't miss any of the storyline. ;) Hopefully next week will have less whining and a more enjoyable ep! :D

(ok I admit I inhabit a fantasy world on that topic... but let me have my delusions! ;) )


Oh that is cool...
Ok fantasy world activated!

Rac80
July 26th, 2008, 06:51 PM
Oh that is cool...
Ok fantasy world activated!

Nice here isn't it? http://s220.photobucket.com/albums/dd227/graphicsgrotto1/nextgensmileys/weather/smweather14.gif
have a drink! http://s220.photobucket.com/albums/dd227/graphicsgrotto1/nextgensmileys/foodanddrink/smfoodanddrink9.gif

Linda06
July 26th, 2008, 07:00 PM
Nice here isn't it? http://s220.photobucket.com/albums/dd227/graphicsgrotto1/nextgensmileys/weather/smweather14.gif
have a drink! http://s220.photobucket.com/albums/dd227/graphicsgrotto1/nextgensmileys/foodanddrink/smfoodanddrink9.gif

Oh very nice...and thanks for the drink...I needed that,it's really warm here!

Ikaros
July 27th, 2008, 11:13 AM
McKay the weakest link??? would you watch the Mappets without Kermit???

Ikaros
July 27th, 2008, 11:19 AM
Honestly!!! we are a bunch of friends who just watch out for his lines!! knowing that we'll propably drop dead laughing. Maybe we are just "some crazy greeks" anyway but that's what's happening every time we watch an episode.

Rac80
July 28th, 2008, 07:41 PM
if a picture is worth a thousand words....
http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb194/rac80/mckay3.jpg

Reiko
July 28th, 2008, 07:58 PM
I actually quite liked him in the first two eps in S5.....He wasn't overly used,he has toned ack him whining greatly which i liked and his scenes with Teyla were really good.....And i almost forgot how much i miss the McKay/Carson banter.....Long may it continue like this....I may even start to like him again!

» Same here. I think Carson and now also Teyla really balance him as a character.

Earthgate Ricky
July 28th, 2008, 08:22 PM
http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh88/QuiltRicky18/2008-02-13-38916.jpg

starfox
July 28th, 2008, 08:40 PM
He's been as integral as ever this season, and it looks like the writers have finally achieved the perfect awkwardness balance.

Blowing up a hive ship, delivering a baby, pointing out a flaw in a plan he only heard secondhand while in quarantine, taking out Wraith with his P-90 and sitting with Ronon through his withdrawal

Looks like a pretty strong player to me.

jenks
July 29th, 2008, 09:26 AM
http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh88/quiltricky18/2008-02-13-38916.jpg

fiy? Fail. Lulz

jrd231
July 29th, 2008, 10:59 AM
I agree that SG1 was well known for the team chemistry, but Atlantis is a completely different show. What Mckay brings is that awkward kind of presence that makes for an interesting dynamic. He doesn't really connect to people on a one on one level. He likes Zelenka, but he can only show it by critisizing him, and when he is left alone with Teyla, he just doesn't know how to act.

It's one of those things where Mckay annoys Shep and Ronon, but if they're off world and somebody would threaten him, they'd step in and offer up an ass whipping to the offender. It's like the little brother thing, only the older brother is allowed to pick on the little brother, nobody else is allowed.

I like the dynamic of Atlantis.

Ikaros
July 29th, 2008, 11:23 AM
I agree that SG1 was well known for the team chemistry, but Atlantis is a completely different show. What Mckay brings is that awkward kind of presence that makes for an interesting dynamic. He doesn't really connect to people on a one on one level. He likes Zelenka, but he can only show it by critisizing him, and when he is left alone with Teyla, he just doesn't know how to act.

It's one of those things where Mckay annoys Shep and Ronon, but if they're off world and somebody would threaten him, they'd step in and offer up an ass whipping to the offender. It's like the little brother thing, only the older brother is allowed to pick on the little brother, nobody else is allowed.

I like the dynamic of Atlantis.

I'll agree with you. Funny that this thread is "supposed" to be anti-Mckay, it has certainly taken a different path :)

Linda06
July 29th, 2008, 11:35 AM
It's the incessant whining i couldn't stand......I wanted to freakin kill him in S4,,,,,,But *fingers crossed* So far so good in S5...I just hope that it continues like this!

Ikaros
July 29th, 2008, 11:53 AM
It's the incessant whining i couldn't stand......I wanted to freakin kill him in S4,,,,,,But *fingers crossed* So far so good in S5...I just hope that it continues like this!

Maybe back in SG1 episodes he did deserve a kick in the (?), though even back then he had his nice moments. But in SGA we'd love his lines in every single episode. Like Salt and Peper

Linda06
July 29th, 2008, 12:03 PM
Maybe back in SG1 episodes he did deserve a kick in the (?), though even back then he had his nice moments. But in SGA we'd love his lines in every single episode. Like Salt and Peper

He's not my fave character....That honour goes to Teyla :D I didn't mind him in S1-3 and especially with Carson being there....The two played of each other brilliantly and some of it was pretty funny.....But in S4 he just annoyed me to no end....But i've actually quite enjoyed watching him again in S5 and i forgot how much i missed the Rodney/Carson moments......Maybe that's what Rodney was missing in S4...

I want my doctor baby back....Oh wait wrong thread....Oops!:beckettanime14:

Reiko
July 29th, 2008, 02:43 PM
I want my doctor baby back....Oh wait wrong thread....Oops!:beckettanime14:

» Well, you always have Keller ;) Just kidding. I know what you mean. :)

Linda06
July 29th, 2008, 02:55 PM
» Well, you always have Keller ;) Just kidding. I know what you mean. :)

I don't mind Keller.......But i want my Carson back *bursts out crying*

jelgate
July 29th, 2008, 03:45 PM
Apparently Linda hasn't seen The Seed.:P

ykickamoocow
July 30th, 2008, 12:04 AM
I'll agree with you. Funny that this thread is "supposed" to be anti-Mckay, it has certainly taken a different path :)

As the person who started this thread i have to disagree. I didnt create this thread to attack MckAy but rather i created this thread to attack the writers who i felt had neglected McKay's character in relation to is ralationships with his teammates (especially Teyla and Ronon) which i felt had not been properly developed.

Linda06
July 30th, 2008, 10:27 AM
Apparently Linda hasn't seen The Seed.:P

Actually i have....The seedHe's going back to earth ain't he :(

Reiko
July 30th, 2008, 10:47 AM
» Yeah. :( Which means more putting up with Whining Baby, and perhaps all-eating grumpy man too. :mckay:

Linda06
July 30th, 2008, 10:54 AM
» Yeah. :( Which means more putting up with Whining Baby, and perhaps all-eating grumpy man too. :mckay:

:lol: Do i even need to ask who all eating grumpy man is ;)

Reiko
July 30th, 2008, 10:58 AM
:lol: Do i even need to ask who all eating grumpy man is ;)

» Guess who :P No, I think you don't. :)

» All of Pajus' nicknames:

We come in peace, shoot to kill = Sheppard
All-eating grumpy man = McKay
Ass-kicking wallpaper = Teyla
Max Payne = Ronon
Fearless leader = Elizabeth
Overgrown sissy-toy = Carter
Whining baby = Keller
Elixir-cooking turtle man = Carson
Scruffy genius = Zelenka
Report-happy ponytail = Kavanagh
I want to be in charge = Caldwell
OG = Ford
Don Barzini = Kolya
Pissed-off Sisko = Ellis
Annoying seducer = Lucius
Shep's UST resolver = Chaya
The Sewer = Kannan
Fallen angel = Heightmeyer
Someone, who wouldn't be sent to Colchester = Lorne
Mr. I hate Shep = Sumner
Let's send Teyla on a suicide mission = Bates
Bite my shiny metal ass = Oberoth
Red-headed voodoo magician = Katie Brown
Darth Tagaan = Teyla's son
Wait until I tell my mommy = Woolsey
Stop calling me Vala = Larrin
Please don't call me Larrin = Nancy Sheppard
Come to bed, Highlander = Cadman

Linda06
July 30th, 2008, 11:39 AM
» Guess who :P No, I think you don't. :)

» All of Pajus' nicknames:

We come in peace, shoot to kill = Sheppard
All-eating grumpy man = McKay
Ass-kicking wallpaper = Teyla
Max Payne = Ronon
Fearless leader = Elizabeth
Overgrown sissy-toy = Carter
Whining baby = Keller
Elixir-cooking turtle man = Carson
Scruffy genius = Zelenka
Report-happy ponytail = Kavanagh
I want to be in charge = Caldwell
OG = Ford
Don Barzini = Kolya
Pissed-off Sisko = Ellis
Annoying seducer = Lucius
Shep's UST resolver = Chaya
The Sewer = Kannan
Fallen angel = Heightmeyer
Someone, who wouldn't be sent to Colchester = Lorne
Mr. I hate Shep = Sumner
Let's send Teyla on a suicide mission = Bates
Bite my shiny metal ass = Oberoth
Red-headed voodoo magician = Katie Brown
Darth Tagaan = Teyla's son
Wait until I tell my mommy = Woolsey
Stop calling me Vala = Larrin
Please don't call me Larrin = Nancy Sheppard
Come to bed, Highlander = Cadman

Hey you forgot a nickname.....Moan a minute ;)

Reiko
July 30th, 2008, 11:41 AM
» Those are just Pajus' nicknames. I have some of my own, too. (Most are for Keller and are rather innappropriate, so I'll spare the mods/Keller fans and not say 'em.)

Ikaros
July 30th, 2008, 01:53 PM
As the person who started this thread i have to disagree. I didnt create this thread to attack MckAy but rather i created this thread to attack the writers who i felt had neglected McKay's character in relation to is ralationships with his teammates (especially Teyla and Ronon) which i felt had not been properly developed.

Well english isn't my mother language.I must have misunderstood. Or maybe you should have put this (?).
Whatever it was , my indetions where good.

Ikaros
July 30th, 2008, 02:12 PM
Well english isn't my mother language.I must have misunderstood. Or maybe you should have put this (?).
Whatever it was , my indetions where good.

And know that i have understant , i think you're a bit right.
They focused on his relashionship with Sheppard, Weir and Carson. Maybe it's just a matter of time. They took their time.
They are certainly moving to this direction in this season.He delivered Teayla's baby, (how closer to a female friend can you be), and he stayed by Ronon's side talking to him while he was .. sleeping, while he spend a night ...bathing and snacking to figure a way to help him.
The casting changes may have been a problem to.
As for the rest of the team teasing him , well he snarks them all the time, it doesn't mean he doesn't like or even love them. That's what close friends do, that's what siblings do. Ain't bad, it helps our character improvment.:atlantistrio:

Earthgate Ricky
July 30th, 2008, 02:48 PM
I don't mind Keller.......But i want my Carson back *bursts out crying*

me too I want my sweet Scottish doctor back!

Reiko
July 30th, 2008, 04:07 PM
» Carson is so lovely there's enough love for everyone who wants some. :)