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ori soldier
March 12th, 2008, 01:35 PM
holomckay said that it was like 1969 but in 1969 sg-1 dialed from sgc and flare bent it bak to sgc so really sheppard should have been stuck on that planet, sometimes the writers really annoy me changing important aspects of the show

XFire
March 12th, 2008, 01:39 PM
Key word being "like"

reddevil18
March 12th, 2008, 01:56 PM
This has been discussed and, quite frankly, there is quite a good explanation for it.
The sun which had the flare was in Atlantis' solar system, not the planet's one. As such, John was basically on the front porch of his house(metaphorically speaking) when it happened. So, he kept going to the nearest gate - Atlantis.
In "1969", it was OUR sun that had the flare. As such, the travelers didn't even get to leave the solar system - again, redirected to the nearest gate, Earth. Maybe the writers can come up with something else, but, to me, this makes sense. A plothole it is not.

jenks
March 12th, 2008, 04:49 PM
Maybe the fact he went forward instead of back had something to do with it as well.

BubblingOverWithIdeas
March 12th, 2008, 08:01 PM
Maybe the fact he went forward instead of back had something to do with it as well.

SG-1 were rebounded to Earth when they went forward in '1969' as well. I'm sure it's a case of the flare being on Atlantis' sun.

jdog
March 13th, 2008, 11:39 PM
I still dont get they rebounded through a gate that could not have existed in 1969 but hey its tv! like creating an artifical wormhole without worms is realistic 8)

Mitchell82
March 13th, 2008, 11:52 PM
I still dont get they rebounded through a gate that could not have existed in 1969 but hey its tv! like creating an artifical wormhole without worms is realistic 8)

Are you talking about the SG-1 ep because yeah it existed.

Avenger
March 14th, 2008, 12:27 AM
I still dont get they rebounded through a gate that could not have existed in 1969 but hey its tv! like creating an artifical wormhole without worms is realistic 8)

What do you mean the gate didn't exist? Of course it existed. The gate had been on Earth for thousands of years. Ernst was the first person to go through the gate in the 1940s. It was uncovered in the 1920s. It would have been around in 1969.

I love how people assume something that they are unable to understand is a plot hole rather than a lack of understanding on their part.

Dutch_Razor
March 14th, 2008, 08:00 AM
What do you mean the gate didn't exist? Of course it existed. The gate had been on Earth for thousands of years. Ernst was the first person to go through the gate in the 1940s. It was uncovered in the 1920s. It would have been around in 1969.

I love how people assume something that they are unable to understand is a plot hole rather than a lack of understanding on their part.

It was nowhere near the SGC though at the time, making it highly weird they landed back there.

It is of course possible Shephard was on the planet in the future, then dialed atlantis because there was noone there anymore.

BubblingOverWithIdeas
March 14th, 2008, 09:54 AM
It was nowhere near the SGC though at the time, making it highly weird they landed back there.


Yes, there was a strange moment in which the two times were simultaneous. Necessary for the plot, I suppose. If the stargate was right where they were, it would be harder to justify a drawn-out stay in 1969.

mizzoueng
March 14th, 2008, 11:52 AM
in 1969 the gate they came through was in another bunker somewhere in the USA. Then there was the Antarctic gate. They should have appeared in one of those, not a magic gate that appears for the purposes of dropping them in the future SGC.

But we're talking about TLM here....

I thought it was interesting to see John 48,and-some-change in the future.

Now, the control room should have been in shambles. 48,000 years with none of the special "dust cloths" should have deteriorated the control crystals and panels to nothing more than dust. This is what happened in the Weir time travel episode, and that was only 10,000 years.

One thing I don't understand though, the holomckay was there for the last 25 years of the real mckays life. Now it wasn't mentioned but assumed that humans still populated Atlantis. The holomckay said "well, its obvious that we have abandoned this city". I took this as meaning he didn't know when we left....

But if his "eyes and ears" were the citys internal sensors, shouldn't he have been online while humans were there? This makes me think that sometime between when Keller dies and Rodney goes back in 25 years, Atlantis is abandoned.

That would mean that McKay was the only person on Atlantis. Does this mean that he dies on Atlantis and never gets back to the MW? Or did he complete his work and gate back to the SGC somehow?

A zpm is needed to gate back, and you can't dial earth, grab the zpm and jump through, so either he had a 304 come get him or he had a zpm or the mark 12 power the gate to get him to earth. I would think there would be enough power in the zpm for a gate to earth. And there would hopefully be enough power in the mark 12 to get to earth as well.

i guess you couldn't really count on earth being either still there or humans being evolved enough to help Shep get back to 2008. But the holomckay should have been able to conceive a mckay/carter bridge cypher and shep could have used a jumper to get to earth. I know the midway is gone, but the span could have been traversed in a cloaked jumper easily fro the last Peg gate to the first MW gate.

reddevil18
March 14th, 2008, 12:34 PM
One thing I don't understand though, the holomckay was there for the last 25 years of the real mckays life. Now it wasn't mentioned but assumed that humans still populated Atlantis. The holomckay said "well, its obvious that we have abandoned this city". I took this as meaning he didn't know when we left....

But if his "eyes and ears" were the citys internal sensors, shouldn't he have been online while humans were there? This makes me think that sometime between when Keller dies and Rodney goes back in 25 years, Atlantis is abandoned.

That would mean that McKay was the only person on Atlantis. Does this mean that he dies on Atlantis and never gets back to the MW? Or did he complete his work and gate back to the SGC somehow?

A zpm is needed to gate back, and you can't dial earth, grab the zpm and jump through, so either he had a 304 come get him or he had a zpm or the mark 12 power the gate to get him to earth. I would think there would be enough power in the zpm for a gate to earth. And there would hopefully be enough power in the mark 12 to get to earth as well.

i guess you couldn't really count on earth being either still there or humans being evolved enough to help Shep get back to 2008. But the holomckay should have been able to conceive a mckay/carter bridge cypher and shep could have used a jumper to get to earth. I know the midway is gone, but the span could have been traversed in a cloaked jumper easily fro the last Peg gate to the first MW gate.I don't agree with that. If they had abandoned the city while Mikey was still at the high point of his rule, they wouldn't leave it standing, ready for him to find it. Humans probably kept using the city for decades to come, until it became useless. I took what McKay said to mean that his program was activated once the gate dialed in and Sheppard stepped through. That's when the program kicked in, and the hologram was able to first speak to him and then, once he was fully functional, activate all of his sensors and such. Keeping all the sensors on-line might have drained the power, so I would think that McKay rigged it to work on minimal power, just enough for it to detect the gate activation 48,000 years into the future. And that's why he didn't know when and why the city was abandoned.
And it would have been too risky and unnecessary to come up with a way of sending John to Earth. What if the planet wasn't even there anymore? Maybe it went boom. The solution to the problem didn't require a trip to Earth...

andy tyler
March 15th, 2008, 02:43 PM
honestly, it's not a big deal. the nit-picking is really annoying, and obviously everyone still enjoyed the episode.

Mitchell82
March 15th, 2008, 03:09 PM
in 1969 the gate they came through was in another bunker somewhere in the USA. Then there was the Antarctic gate. They should have appeared in one of those, not a magic gate that appears for the purposes of dropping them in the future SGC.
holomckay said "well, its obvious that we have abandoned this city". I took this as meaning he didn't know when we left....[/QUOTE]
My guess is one of two possibilities. 1 he arrived and the city was already abandoned and one reason why Lorne didn't want to send him or the reason he knew he couldn't get support other than the changing history thing. Or 2, the city was still occupied but Mckay died before we abandoned the city.


But if his "eyes and ears" were the citys internal sensors, shouldn't he have been online while humans were there? This makes me think that sometime between when Keller dies and Rodney goes back in 25 years, Atlantis is abandoned.
Regardless he programed his holoMckay to activate at the precise time Shepard would arrive in the City.


That would mean that McKay was the only person on Atlantis. Does this mean that he dies on Atlantis and never gets back to the MW? Or did he complete his work and gate back to the SGC somehow?
Good question but in the end irrelevant since history has changed.


A zpm is needed to gate back, and you can't dial earth, grab the zpm and jump through, so either he had a 304 come get him or he had a zpm or the mark 12 power the gate to get him to earth. I would think there would be enough power in the zpm for a gate to earth. And there would hopefully be enough power in the mark 12 to get to earth as well.
That's just a unnecessary piece of info that would have dragged the ep too long.


i guess you couldn't really count on earth being either still there or humans being evolved enough to help Shep get back to 2008. But the holomckay should have been able to conceive a mckay/carter bridge cypher and shep could have used a jumper to get to earth. I know the midway is gone, but the span could have been traversed in a cloaked jumper easily fro the last Peg gate to the first MW gate.
Again that's just TMI and would drag the story.

mizzoueng
March 15th, 2008, 08:00 PM
Mitchell82,

I know it would have been irrelivant to the story, but it raises good questios on how McKay got back. If he used the gate then there should have been a ZPM, which if powered down should of had enough energy to get hi back unless it only had enough to get mcKay back in the first place, but why only send mcKay with a zpm with enough energy for 1 trip? Plus I doubt the IOA would give mcKay a PM for some "hair-brained" idea to save Shep and the timeline.

McKay didn't really know when Joh would appear in the future, he knew it was around 48,000 years, but he didn't know the exact date. So that would mean he would have had to be tied to the internal sensors at some level to just be able to tell the passage of time and be able to detect comm traffic in the city. Sure he could have set a crude "time delay" on the generator power up, but even then it would have to be powered up starting at 47,999 years just to detect the comm.

What if humans came back sometime between McKays 25 years and 48,000 years, would the hologram activated and informed the people to not move the city?

I know none of these questions will be answered, but there is so much information missing from episodes these days tht I wish could be included on DVDs when they come out.........

Augshark
March 19th, 2008, 12:02 PM
Mitchell82,

I know it would have been irrelivant to the story, but it raises good questios on how McKay got back. If he used the gate then there should have been a ZPM, which if powered down should of had enough energy to get hi back unless it only had enough to get mcKay back in the first place, but why only send mcKay with a zpm with enough energy for 1 trip? Plus I doubt the IOA would give mcKay a PM for some "hair-brained" idea to save Shep and the timeline.

McKay didn't really know when Joh would appear in the future, he knew it was around 48,000 years, but he didn't know the exact date. So that would mean he would have had to be tied to the internal sensors at some level to just be able to tell the passage of time and be able to detect comm traffic in the city. Sure he could have set a crude "time delay" on the generator power up, but even then it would have to be powered up starting at 47,999 years just to detect the comm.

What if humans came back sometime between McKays 25 years and 48,000 years, would the hologram activated and informed the people to not move the city?

I know none of these questions will be answered, but there is so much information missing from episodes these days tht I wish could be included on DVDs when they come out.........



I think the producers/writers are implying that power isn't an issue given that Carter in season 9 invented the Mark IX "Gatebuster" bomb, which is essentially a naquadah generator set to overload on the "Mark IX" level. Whatever that means. McKay tells Sheppard that he left a "Mark XII" generator to power the stasis chamber. If the IOA was ok letting McKay just leave a Mark XII sitting around for 50,000 years, I feel they probably had enough battery power to activate the gate from Pegasus back to Milky Way without too much regret. And even if Major Lorne pulled a few strings to get McKay to Atlantis, I doubt they could easily explain why he was taking a Mark XII generator with him. (and given a Mark XII can power a stasis chamber for 1,000 years, if not more, it can probably dial the gate once or twice for an intergalactic call.)

dragos
March 19th, 2008, 01:52 PM
With regards to McCay getting to and from Atlantis it being 25 years into the future it is possible that they rebuilt the Midway station with a new more secure technique of insuring that only the people you want comes thru.