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FallenAngelII
March 8th, 2008, 04:07 PM
Let's take at the people we saw take it in the shorts in this episode:
* Teyla
* Sam
* Ronon
* Jennifer

Teyla:
Meaningless death which we didn't even get to see.
Sam:
Goes out in a blaze of glory.
Ronon:
Lesser blaze of glory.
Jennifer:
She just dies.

Meanwhile, the fates of the others:

Rodney:
Survives and saves the world by altering the timeline (well, John helped).
Lorne:
In command of the SGC.
Radek:
Seen in passing giving Rodney coffee.

Let's break it down:
Let's be a bit conspirational and, um, weird and assume their fates were not based due to plot but due to what the PTB think of the characters.

If so, we can assume the following:
Teyla:
Remember all of those episodes in which Teyla got tons of character development? All those, um, 2 (before season 4)? Yeaaaah... they kinda kept forgetting they had Teyla for a while and reduced her to wallflower status. So wallflowery is she her death isn't even significant enough to show. All we get to see is her rotting corpse (thankfully quite fresh).
Sam:
Sam's the Mary Sue of SG-1 and now also a Mary Sue of Atlantis. The PTB love her (pretty much a fact). So, of course she goes out a hero. Not only has she managed to run a whole bunch of Hit-and-Runs on Michael's hives, she dies only after beaming all of her crew down to the planet and then blowing up three Hives. Go Sam!
Ronon:
I don't know. He was quite wallflowery ('til season 4) but I guess they like him. So he dies in a minor blaze of glory.
Jennifer:
Well, they're tried to get her to fit in. But maybe they just don't like her. Or they looked at the fan reactions and saw that while people liked her, others did not due to her perceived age and whatnot. So she took it in the shorts. She caught the Space Flu and died within 3 days of them discovering it.
Radek:
How often do we see Radek nowadays, really? I mean, for meaningful appearances. Not that much. While he's still important, in a lot of episodes, he just shows up for a few lines that could've been said by anyone. So he didn't even get a mention besides "Oh, and Radek helped".
Rodney:
Rodney is a quasi-Mary Stu (at least he still does mistakes). They like him. So he got the pretty (much younger) girl, he got to keep his hair, he got to, you know, survive and then he also got to save the world.
Lorne:
They like lorne, too. And Lorne's got rabid fangirls on his side. They're afraid of said rabid fangirls. So not only did he survive, he helped Rodney save the world and he got to be in command of the SGC, too.

So in conclusion: Bunnies are evil.

jelgate
March 8th, 2008, 04:14 PM
which is why rabbit stew taste so good.

The_Carpenter
March 8th, 2008, 04:23 PM
Teyla:
Meaningless death which we didn't even get to see. Perhaps meaningless, but perhaps she was killed for a reason... maybe influence over the baby IF Michael keeps it.


Sam:
Sam's the Mary Sue of SG-1 and now also a Mary Sue of Atlantis. The PTB love her (pretty much a fact). So, of course she goes out a hero. Not only has she managed to run a whole bunch of Hit-and-Runs on Michael's hives, she dies only after beaming all of her crew down to the planet and then blowing up three Hives. Go Sam!
A large amount of fans also love her, and there would of been hell to pay from SG-1 fans if she had died in anyway other than she did in this AU.


Ronon:
I don't know. He was quite wallflowery ('til season 4) but I guess they like him. So he dies in a minor blaze of glory.

It was also in character for him to die in such a manner, also demonstrated his growth in being able to work personally with a Wraith for the greater good



Jennifer:
Well, they're tried to get her to fit in. But maybe they just don't like her. Or they looked at the fan reactions and saw that while people liked her, others did not due to her perceived age and whatnot. So she took it in the shorts. She caught the Space Flu and died within 3 days of them discovering it.

3 days of discovering it? sorry I suggest you rewatch The Kindred Parts 1 and 2, additionally rewatch The Last Man. Where did you get the 3 days figure from really?


Radek:
How often do we see Radek nowadays, really? I mean, for meaningful appearances. Not that much. While he's still important, in a lot of episodes, he just shows up for a few lines that could've been said by anyone. So he didn't even get a mention besides "Oh, and Radek helped".

Unfortunately Radek has been under used this season. But he has had his share of character development more so than Lorne as I recall.


Rodney:
Rodney is a quasi-Mary Stu (at least he still does mistakes). They like him. So he got the pretty (much younger) girl, he got to keep his hair, he got to, you know, survive and then he also got to save the world.

He got to survive in the physical sense, but he was already emotionally dead from the loss of Keller, John, Sam, Teyla and Ronon I don't think he got off easy infact sometimes being the only one left is extremely difficult! ever heard of survivors guilt?


Lorne:
They like lorne, too. And Lorne's got rabid fangirls on his side. They're afraid of said rabid fangirls. So not only did he survive, he helped Rodney save the world and he got to be in command of the SGC, too.

Well nothing more to add here, other than I didn't see it that way :)


So in conclusion: Bunnies are evil.

Indeed they are!

The_Carpenter
March 8th, 2008, 04:24 PM
*Double post somehow :S

FallenAngelII
March 8th, 2008, 04:30 PM
Perhaps meaningless, but perhaps she was killed for a reason... maybe influence over the baby IF Michael keeps it.
Michael used the baby's DNA. I doubt he raised him to be his champion as his plan succeeded within months/a year of the birth of the baby (evident since none of the other characters aged at all). He also killed Teyla off immediately after the birth or at least pretty soon after she gave birth. What was Teyla going to influence the infant into doing? Projectile vomiting?


A large amount of fans also love her, and there would of been hell to pay from SG-1 fans if she had died in anyway other than she did in this AU.
A lot of fans also love Teyla.


It was also in character for him to die in such a manner, also demonstrated his growth in being able to work personally with a Wraith for the greater good
You have a point there.


3 days of discovering it? sorry I suggest you rewatch The Kindred Parts 1 and 2, additionally rewatch The Last Man. Where did you get the 3 days figure from really?
From the episode itself? She died within 3 (or 4 if it took them one day to fly to Colorado) days of them discovering her ilness.


Unfortunately Radek has been under used this season. But he has had his share of character development more so than Lorne as I recall.
Really? I don't remember much character development for Radek.


He got to survive in the physical sense, but he was already emotionally dead from the loss of Keller, John, Sam, Teyla and Ronon I don't think he got off easy infact sometimes being the only one left is extremely difficult! ever heard of survivors guilt?
Easier than others. And he had a goal for which he worked and succeeded. And did I mention he saved the fate of two galaxies (there's apparently some trouble on Earth/in the Milky Way)?

jasminaGo
March 8th, 2008, 04:32 PM
Perhaps meaningless, but perhaps she was killed for a reason... maybe influence over the baby IF Michael keeps it.

[
A large amount of fans also love her, and there would of been hell to pay from SG-1 fans if she had died in anyway other than she did in this AU.

It was also in character for him to die in such a manner, also demonstrated his growth in being able to work personally with a Wraith for the greater good

3 days of discovering it? sorry I suggest you rewatch The Kindred Parts 1 and 2, additionally rewatch The Last Man. Where did you get the 3 days figure from really?

Unfortunately Radek has been under used this season. But he has had his share of character development more so than Lorne as I recall.

He got to survive in the physical sense, but he was already emotionally dead from the loss of Keller, John, Sam, Teyla and Ronon I don't think he got off easy infact sometimes being the only one left is extremely difficult! ever heard of survivors guilt?

Well nothing more to add here, other than I didn't see it that way :)

Indeed they are, especially the pink ones!

Nothing more to say. You summed it up nicely. :)

rarocks24
March 8th, 2008, 04:55 PM
Michael used the baby's DNA. I doubt he raised him to be his champion as his plan succeeded within months/a year of the birth of the baby (evident since none of the other characters aged at all). He also killed Teyla off immediately after the birth or at least pretty soon after she gave birth. What was Teyla going to influence the infant into doing? Projectile vomiting?


A lot of fans also love Teyla.


You have a point there.


From the episode itself? She died within 3 (or 4 if it took them one day to fly to Colorado) days of them discovering her ilness.


Really? I don't remember much character development for Radek.


Easier than others. And he had a goal for which he worked and succeeded. And did I mention he saved the fate of two galaxies (there's apparently some trouble on Earth/in the Milky Way)?

1) It's not as if Michael wouldn't be able to speed up the aging process. Granted, nothing came of Teyla's baby in the AU.
2) No disagreement there. Teyla's a phenomenal character.
3) She actually died a year after returning to Earth.
4) Radek got a lot of character development over the years. The fact that it was a little subtle, too bad. Need to pay attention more.
5) As for trouble in the Milky Way, probably related to Michael.

FallenAngelII
March 8th, 2008, 05:02 PM
3) She actually died a year after returning to Earth.
4) Radek got a lot of character development over the years. The fact that it was a little subtle, too bad. Need to pay attention more.
5) As for trouble in the Milky Way, probably related to Michael.
3) I never claimed she didn't. I said she died 3 days after they discovered her illness, nothing more.
4) Over the years, yes. Not so much this year, though, which is what was claimed and which I disagreed to.
5) I doubt it. If Michael had even cared enough to find the Milky Way and do the Michael-thing here, Lorne wouldn't have hesitated to send Rodney through.

Barbaro
March 8th, 2008, 05:08 PM
3) She actually died a year after returning to Earth.


Yes it was a year since Keller and Rodney returned to Earth but I believe what Fallen Angel meant was that Keller died within 3-4 days of realizing that she was sick. Too late.

The_Carpenter
March 8th, 2008, 05:28 PM
A lot of fans also love Teyla.

True, I like the character as well :), but in this episode it made sense that she would be killed by Michael after giving birth, the kid has Wraith DNA as does Teyla she would have some influence, and as someone previously posted Michael may have sped up the development of the kid.


Really? I don't remember much character development for Radek.

Well there was him running around Atlantis with a pipe in Tabula Rasa!... that had to come from somewhere in his past. As well as that lovely scene he had with Rodney at the end of BAMSR, in my mind the first concrete sign that Radek is more than just McKays intellectual punching bag.


3) I never claimed she didn't. I said she died 3 days after they discovered her illness, nothing more.
5) I doubt it. If Michael had even cared enough to find the Milky Way and do the Michael-thing here, Lorne wouldn't have hesitated to send Rodney through.

3) Ok I mis-interpreted your meaning :)
5) I believe that whatever is going wrong in the Milky Way is something totally different! hey the Universe is a big place :D

But I still think that McKay suffered by having to deal with his friends dying especially as he was emotionally hanging by a thread at the end of The Kindred Part 2, and then having Keller die as well... sometimes it is harder being the one left behind!

FallenAngelII
March 8th, 2008, 05:41 PM
I very much doubt he sped up the growth of the kid. All he needed was the kid so he could experiment on its DNA.

Also, all of the hybrids have Wraith DNA in them. Why wasn't Michael afraid of her influencing them?

AutumnDream
March 8th, 2008, 07:15 PM
After over a decade of reinforcement of the SG-1 team's invincibility, it actually seems logically implausible that Sam would die in a situation where it's implausible that she would live. At this point it's just ridiculous to surmise that any of them would die.

And yeah, it's pretty hilarious that she was superhero of the galaxy while all the Atlantis characters basically did nothing significant, save Rodney. I'm not even one of the "grr Carter" / "grr sg1 crossovers" people, but the sheer blatancy of that was pretty incredible.

Ezi_May
March 8th, 2008, 08:14 PM
3) I never claimed she didn't. I said she died 3 days after they discovered her illness, nothing more.


I interpreted Rodney's line about her dying 3 days later to mean that she died 3 days after telling Rodney to let it go and not try to change the past. Not that she died 3 days after coughing up blood.

FallenAngelII
March 8th, 2008, 08:20 PM
I interpreted Rodney's line about her dying 3 days later to mean that she died 3 days after telling Rodney to let it go and not try to change the past. Not that she died 3 days after coughing up blood.
My impression is that she told him that the same day they were told of her condition.

Timeline:
* Rodney gets the news
* Stands in the hallway brooding, has a revelation.
* Goes off to work
* Comes back

Jennifer asked him "Where've you been" not in the manner you'd asked someone who's gone for days.

Also, Rodney's wearing the same outfit all throughout. So either it was the same day or within a day or two or something.

Jumper_One
March 8th, 2008, 08:36 PM
I interpreted Rodney's line about her dying 3 days later to mean that she died 3 days after telling Rodney to let it go and not try to change the past. Not that she died 3 days after coughing up blood.

yeah that's what I thought too. pretty obvious imo

jasminaGo
March 9th, 2008, 03:43 AM
After over a decade of reinforcement of the SG-1 team's invincibility, it actually seems logically implausible that Sam would die in a situation where it's implausible that she would live. At this point it's just ridiculous to surmise that any of them would die.

And yeah, it's pretty hilarious that she was superhero of the galaxy while all the Atlantis characters basically did nothing significant, save Rodney. I'm not even one of the "grr Carter" / "grr sg1 crossovers" people, but the sheer blatancy of that was pretty incredible.

I wouldn't say that the Atlantis characters did nothing significant. Sheppard was send into the future, so he had no say in the events in that time, but he did come back to change all that. Ronon created an army, and died destroying Michael's lab, it wasn't made as spectacular as Carter's death, but it certainly wasn't meaningless. The only one who didn't had a chanse to do something was Teyla, that we know of, maybe she was a threat to Michael and that was why he killed her.

Buck32
March 9th, 2008, 04:17 AM
Teyla:
Remember all of those episodes in which Teyla got tons of character development? All those, um, 2 (before season 4)? Yeaaaah... they kinda kept forgetting they had Teyla for a while and reduced her to wallflower status. So wallflowery is she her death isn't even significant enough to show. All we get to see is her rotting corpse (thankfully quite fresh).

I totally agree but you know what? i toatlly don't care either, Teyla's character is so underdeveloped that if we got halfway through season 5 and she wasn't there i doubt i'd even notice. As for her death well they spend little time on her in life, no womder her death was a passing mention.