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P-51D Mustang
March 8th, 2008, 08:42 AM
Whats with Ronon not killing Tod. He is always talking about killing him and when he finally gets the chance he WORKS WIHT HIM AND DIES WITH HIM.

Pharaoh Atem
March 8th, 2008, 08:44 AM
Whats with Ronon not killing Tod. He is always talking about killing him and when he finally gets the chance he WORKS WIHT HIM AND DIES WITH HIM.



who cares that scene owned Chris and jason have great chemistry :ronan::wraith:

jenks
March 8th, 2008, 08:47 AM
I didn't like this scene either, it's bad enough that Shep and McKay don't shoot him on site, but Ronon? Come on!

Fenrir Foxz
March 8th, 2008, 08:47 AM
Whats with Ronon not killing Tod. He is always talking about killing him and when he finally gets the chance he WORKS WIHT HIM AND DIES WITH HIM.

I though it was great they could set their differences aside *well mainly Ronon* and work together against a common, worse enemy...


Some cool screencaps :P
http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd58/FenRiR_FoXz/Stargate%20Atlantis/Season%204/E20%20The%20Last%20Man/Image35.jpg
http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd58/FenRiR_FoXz/Stargate%20Atlantis/Season%204/E20%20The%20Last%20Man/Image36.jpg
http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd58/FenRiR_FoXz/Stargate%20Atlantis/Season%204/E20%20The%20Last%20Man/Image39.jpg

P-90_177
March 8th, 2008, 08:48 AM
I though it was great they could set thier differences aside *well mainly Ronon* and work together against a common, worse enemy...


Some cool screencaps :P
http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd58/FenRiR_FoXz/Stargate%20Atlantis/Season%204/E20%20The%20Last%20Man/Image35.jpg
http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd58/FenRiR_FoXz/Stargate%20Atlantis/Season%204/E20%20The%20Last%20Man/Image36.jpg
http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd58/FenRiR_FoXz/Stargate%20Atlantis/Season%204/E20%20The%20Last%20Man/Image39.jpg

I bet there's some hidden love in those eyes. :cameron:

melfan
March 8th, 2008, 08:49 AM
I thought it was great!
A bit of ironic really
die with the wraith you wanna kill!

Pharaoh Atem
March 8th, 2008, 08:50 AM
two former enemies fighting to save their own galaxy

aboleyn24
March 8th, 2008, 09:02 AM
That was my favorite part of the entire episode. I thought it was brilliant. It was a nice call back to Shep and Todd in Common Ground. Those two united to fight a common enemy with the understanding that once that was done, all bets were off.

I think this wasn't any different. Ronon is not dumb (despite what McKay may think). He was looking at the big picture. To have just killed Todd without any other thought would have just been spiteful and not really accomplished anything. Sure Ronon hates the Wrath and Todd. But when the balance of power in the Pegasus galaxy shifted from the Wraith to Michael, Ronon was able to focus on the new enemy. For the good of the galaxy instead of just mindlessly focusing on killing Wraith. Todd helped him towards a common goal. It really shows how much Ronon has grown since he's been on Atlantis. How much he learned form Sheppard.

Now had they made it out of that Wraith compound I think all bets would have been off.

artbrann
March 8th, 2008, 09:22 AM
the enemy of my enemy is my friend
+
the lesser of 2 evils
=
logic here

after Mikey kicked the crap out of the wraith, poisoned a ton of them, started converting humans to hybrids and exterminating the humans he didn't convert. I would assume even Ronon would realize who to try and kill first, and then take out Todd later

jenks
March 8th, 2008, 09:38 AM
the enemy of my enemy is my friend
+
the lesser of 2 evils
=
logic here

after Mikey kicked the crap out of the wraith, poisoned a ton of them, started converting humans to hybrids and exterminating the humans he didn't convert. I would assume even Ronon would realize who to try and kill first, and then take out Todd later

Ronon didn't need Todd, why wouldn't he just kill him and be on his way?

Corgano
March 8th, 2008, 09:52 AM
Ronon didn't need Todd, why wouldn't he just kill him and be on his way?

He was in a base full of hybrids and you think he didn't need any help?!?

Besides, what are all of you talking about? Ronon DID kill Todd! He blew him up! :D

P-51D Mustang
March 8th, 2008, 09:54 AM
I guess you are sortof right about the whole putting aside diffrences but sitll. And while were on the topic of shooting people, I was suprised that sheperd didnt shoot hologram Mckay it would have been hilarous

dasNdanger
March 8th, 2008, 10:11 AM
Some people just don't get the whole point of 'character development', do they... ;)

It was a great moment - a defining moment. It showed that even the worst of enemies can learn to put their differences aside for the greater good. It also showed both men...well...man and Wraith...that they were more alike than they ever realized. They were equals - no longer preditor and prey - and they died together as equals.

It was truly beautiful...


THANKS FenRiR FoXz for the screen caps, too! If you have more, please post them!


das

jenks
March 8th, 2008, 10:19 AM
It wasn't character development, it was ridiculous, totally out of character.

P-90_177
March 8th, 2008, 10:24 AM
It wasn't character development, it was ridiculous, totally out of character.

Ronon didn't want to risk the lives of his men any more than he had to. He knew that he couldn't make it through alone. He knew that TODD was right that a smaller force would be more effective. He knew a cruiser had landed and they'd soon be over whelmed. He knew that Todd was a powerful super strong wraith who was good in a fight. He knew that both he and Todd had the same objective. He knew that it was best to keep an ee on him and probably would have stunned him and taken him prisoner if they had got out of there.

I reckon that all sounds like Ronon to me.

Fenrir Foxz
March 8th, 2008, 10:25 AM
THANKS FenRiR FoXz for the screen caps, too! If you have more, please post them!

das

Anytime :)

I've got more caps of TLM, but thoses are the only ones I have done of Ronon and Todd at the moment... I really like that scene and the way they almost had each other with their blades...



I know it's a bit OT for this thread but I did these 2 of Michael, I was really surprised by this scene...
http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd58/FenRiR_FoXz/Stargate%20Atlantis/Season%204/E20%20The%20Last%20Man/Image5.jpg
http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd58/FenRiR_FoXz/Stargate%20Atlantis/Season%204/E20%20The%20Last%20Man/Image6.jpg
I'll get round to making some more caps at some point... I've got some good ones of the Phoenix though :)

jenks
March 8th, 2008, 10:26 AM
Ronon didn't want to risk the lives of his men any more than he had to. He knew that he couldn't make it through alone. He knew that TODD was right that a smaller force would be more effective. He knew a cruiser had landed and they'd soon be over whelmed. He knew that Todd was a powerful super strong wraith who was good in a fight. He knew that both he and Todd had the same objective. He knew that it was best to keep an ee on him and probably would have stunned him and taken him prisoner if they had got out of there.

I reckon that all sounds like Ronon to me.

Ronon wouldn't miss a chance to have the satisfaction of killing Todd imo, he wouldn't have chosen to have Todd watching his back when he didn't need to.

aboleyn24
March 8th, 2008, 10:26 AM
Some people just don't get the whole point of 'character development', do they... ;)

It was a great moment - a defining moment. It showed that even the worst of enemies can learn to put their differences aside for the greater good. It also showed both men...well...man and Wraith...that they were more alike than they ever realized. They were equals - no longer preditor and prey - and they died together as equals.

It was truly beautiful...


THANKS FenRiR FoXz for the screen caps, too! If you have more, please post them!


das

Exactly, I couldn't agree with you more.


It wasn't character development, it was ridiculous, totally out of character.


Why? Seriously please expand on why it was out of character. I am truly interested in your point of view. I see it differently, but would like to see why you think it was out of character.

jenks
March 8th, 2008, 10:28 AM
Why? Seriously please expand on why it was out of character. I am truly interested in your point of view. I see it differently, but would like to see why you think it was out of character.

Well why wouldn't he have killed him on site? He hates his guts, he didn't need his help so why wouldn't he just blow his brains out?

talyn2k1
March 8th, 2008, 10:36 AM
I thought the scene was great. Ronon wasn't out of character, he's developed.

Michael has become the dominant force of the galaxy, the Wraith and humans are both in danger of being exterminated at his hands. Ronon has come to trust Todd through all their encounters and realised that Todd was just as eager to slow down Michael as he was.

I didn't see any complaints when SG-1 teamed up with Ba'al in Reckoning, and that was pretty much the same thing.

As artbrann said - the enemy of my enemy is my friend.

It's unbelievable. Fans have been groaning for the last 4 years that there hasn't been enough character development. They actually developed both Ronon and Todd in that one short piece of the episode (albeit in an alternate future), and people are still complaining!

PTB truly cannot win!

RepliVeggie
March 8th, 2008, 10:38 AM
Who knows how Ronon had changed. It had been a few months if not maybe a year since Shepphard went missing. There may be pretty much no Wraith left and has focused on Micheal's bunch. Accept it it was awesome. I love Todd and Ronon.

Skydiver
March 8th, 2008, 10:40 AM
that was the best bit of the whole episode

here's hoping they pair those two up more often

they may be fundamentally opposite...but are both brilliantlyh ruthless when it comes to getting the job done

naamiaiset
March 8th, 2008, 11:02 AM
that was the best bit of the whole episode

here's hoping they pair those two up more often

they may be fundamentally opposite...but are both brilliantly ruthless when it comes to getting the job done
I agree, I'd love to see them team up again. ronon is the last person who would ever ally with a wraith, and it was a great change from the "see a wraith, kill it, go on my way" mode of thinking that everyone would expect from him.

aboleyn24
March 8th, 2008, 11:17 AM
Ronon wouldn't miss a chance to have the satisfaction of killing Todd imo, he wouldn't have chosen to have Todd watching his back when he didn't need to.

That makes it seem like Ronon is totally primal, goes for immediate satisfaction instead of thinking ahead. Perhaps this is how Ronon was when we first met him, but I really think he has come a long way from that.

This Ronon took a bunch of rag tag survivors and turned them into a formidable army. You don't do that by just satisfying your primal urges. He instead focused on looking two steps ahead.

Todd was an asset in the fight against Michael. Ronon was looking ahead instead of just going for a quick burst of satisfaction. Who knows maybe that little smile was knowing he was taking Todd with him.

I still think it was the best moment of the episode and one of the best of the season. Jason and Chris did a fantastic job together.

Sparrow_hawk
March 8th, 2008, 11:22 AM
It wasn't character development, it was ridiculous, totally out of character.
I've got to disagree with you on this. Ronon disliked Todd in the past. Time has passed and things have changed. Michael is now the enemy of both Wraith and Human. As I see it Todd and Ronon have been waging their own guerrilla warfare campaigns against Michael off-screen. Maybe they've even run into each other before, or seen the results of one another's handiwork. Ronon is not just a rogue fighter any more, he is the leader of an army. And Todd is the Wraith he always was.

Now they are both at Michael's lab with the same goal. They are both outstanding fighters and each has nothing to gain, at that particular moment in time, from killing the other. As they said in Kindred I "There's always next time..." For T&R to form a temporary alliance makes sense to me.

I'm glad they did; it was a great scene!

dasNdanger
March 8th, 2008, 11:31 AM
Ronon wouldn't miss a chance to have the satisfaction of killing Todd imo, he wouldn't have chosen to have Todd watching his back when he didn't need to.


Well why wouldn't he have killed him on site? He hates his guts, he didn't need his help so why wouldn't he just blow his brains out?


Okie dokie - I'm just gonna assume you're playing devil's advocate...because...well, because.

Todd is a Wraith - yes...and Ronon hates Wraith - yes. However...Ronon has proven time and again that he is able to rise above. He did so in The Runner (and for a few episodes thereafter) when he had to learn to trust even fellow humans. Now, it's time for him to rise above again...

True, Ronon hates Wraith because of what they did to him, and his planet, and his people...HOWEVER....

There is no indication that Todd - as an individual - was any part of that. In fact, Todd was most likely in the Genii prison when Sateda was attacked, and during those 7 years afterwards when Ronon was hunted like an animal. That is, as far as we know right now. So, Todd - as an individual - has never done anything bad to Ronon.

Instead, Ronon knows this about Todd:

1. Todd willingly return Sheppard's life to him in an act of self-sacrifice. I say 'self-sacrifice' because, when the Wraith in Travellers gave Larrin back her life, he acted weak and a bit wobbly afterwards, as if it had drained him. So the gift of life undoubtedly takes strength away from the Wraith giving it. And Todd was under no obligation to return Sheppard's life to him - he could have escaped instead, and left Sheppard for dead. But he showed himself to be a Wraith of honor, repaying a debt he felt he owed.

2. Todd was the first to tell the Lanteans about the Replicators destroying human worlds, thus expediting their attack plan. Todd came with both an offer of assistance, and the technical information that was needed to give that assistance, without any indication that he was going to betray them (yes, he held back info, but that was to insure the humans didn't double-cross him, which WAS Sheppard's evil little plan).

3. Todd agreed to help save Rodney's sister - agreeing to do so without promise of a meal. Therefore, he knew Todd didn't always expect something in return, and that he'd help even if death was inevitable.

4. Todd brought Wraith hives into the battle against the Replicators, thus increasing the odds that the Lanteans would be victorious.

5. Todd gave them information to help with both Michael, and in finding Carson.

And yes - he also knows that Todd tried to get the cloning facility up and running, and that he stole info on Midway from Rodney. But that was no worse than some of the things the Lanteans had done to him (captivity, starvation, forced labor, refusal to trust, scheming to double-cross him, etc).

No one is saying that Todd should be 100% trusted - I don't fully trust him, and I 'love' him! However, Ronon is a bigger man than to let prejudice and hatred blind him to the reality of things. Todd has been as good a 'friend' to the Lanteans as a Wraith could ever hope to be...and Ronon has to see this. Ronon has to realize that it's not easy for Todd to resist feeding on every human he sees, just as it's not easy for Ronon to resist killing every Wraith that he sees.

In this, they are equals. They are both fighting their natural inclinations because - unlike some people - they are able to see the good in each other. It's a wonderful lesson for us all. Ronon doesn't allow his hatred for what the Wraith did to him and his people blind him to the fact that - perhaps - this one Wraith is just a bit different. Not that Todd wouldn't feed on him, or that Todd is some sort of saint, but that Todd is at least trying to maintain some self-control, just as Ronon is trying to do.

Ronon truly impressed me. He didn't need Sheppard there to tell him to stand down. He did so on his own. Why? Because he's grown. He's now a leader of men himself. And he can see that old grudges aren't worth dying or killing over, not when you have something much more important to face. And he was facing it together with a Wraith who decided to stay and fight, instead of looking out for himself and running away. Truly impressive development for both.

Of course, it's a development that we probably will never see happen, since only under those exact circumstances would these two find themselves fighting, and dying, like that. Still...it was beautiful to see...best written scene in the episode, hands down.


das

Demerzel
March 8th, 2008, 11:49 AM
In my opinion this was one of the highlights of the episode. The looks they exchange at the end, that was priceless. Two unlikely comrades in war, who are both unaffraid of dying and who sacrifice their lives for a common cause.

That showed, without any word said about it, that even enemies can respect each other.

JohnRico
March 8th, 2008, 11:49 AM
If Ronon & Todd started fighting each other they both more then likely would have been over runned by the Hybrids & Ronon would have never had time to push that button

Demerzel
March 8th, 2008, 11:54 AM
Even Ronon must have realised the complexity and gravity of the situation. Killing Todd would have made things worst, and I think Ronon kind of respects Todd as well; gotta admit, Todd is a hell of a fighter.

Fenrir Foxz
March 8th, 2008, 12:20 PM
Here's some more screencaps of Ronon and Todd...
http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd58/FenRiR_FoXz/Stargate%20Atlantis/Season%204/E20%20The%20Last%20Man/RononTodd1.jpg
http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd58/FenRiR_FoXz/Stargate%20Atlantis/Season%204/E20%20The%20Last%20Man/RononTodd2.jpg
http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd58/FenRiR_FoXz/Stargate%20Atlantis/Season%204/E20%20The%20Last%20Man/RononTodd3.jpg
http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd58/FenRiR_FoXz/Stargate%20Atlantis/Season%204/E20%20The%20Last%20Man/RononTodd4.jpg
http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd58/FenRiR_FoXz/Stargate%20Atlantis/Season%204/E20%20The%20Last%20Man/RononTodd5.jpg
http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd58/FenRiR_FoXz/Stargate%20Atlantis/Season%204/E20%20The%20Last%20Man/RononTodd6.jpg
http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd58/FenRiR_FoXz/Stargate%20Atlantis/Season%204/E20%20The%20Last%20Man/RononTodd7.jpg
http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd58/FenRiR_FoXz/Stargate%20Atlantis/Season%204/E20%20The%20Last%20Man/RononTodd8.jpg
http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd58/FenRiR_FoXz/Stargate%20Atlantis/Season%204/E20%20The%20Last%20Man/RononTodd9.jpg
http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd58/FenRiR_FoXz/Stargate%20Atlantis/Season%204/E20%20The%20Last%20Man/RononTodd10.jpg
http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd58/FenRiR_FoXz/Stargate%20Atlantis/Season%204/E20%20The%20Last%20Man/RononTodd11.jpg
http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd58/FenRiR_FoXz/Stargate%20Atlantis/Season%204/E20%20The%20Last%20Man/RononTodd12.jpg
http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd58/FenRiR_FoXz/Stargate%20Atlantis/Season%204/E20%20The%20Last%20Man/RononTodd13.jpg
http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd58/FenRiR_FoXz/Stargate%20Atlantis/Season%204/E20%20The%20Last%20Man/RononTodd14.jpg
http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd58/FenRiR_FoXz/Stargate%20Atlantis/Season%204/E20%20The%20Last%20Man/RononTodd15.jpg
http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd58/FenRiR_FoXz/Stargate%20Atlantis/Season%204/E20%20The%20Last%20Man/RononTodd16.jpg
http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd58/FenRiR_FoXz/Stargate%20Atlantis/Season%204/E20%20The%20Last%20Man/RononTodd17.jpg
http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd58/FenRiR_FoXz/Stargate%20Atlantis/Season%204/E20%20The%20Last%20Man/RononTodd18.jpg
http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd58/FenRiR_FoXz/Stargate%20Atlantis/Season%204/E20%20The%20Last%20Man/RononTodd19.jpg
http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd58/FenRiR_FoXz/Stargate%20Atlantis/Season%204/E20%20The%20Last%20Man/RononTodd20.jpg

Aurora24
March 8th, 2008, 12:33 PM
I loved this scene, it was perfect. Ronon was completely in character, his hatred of the Wraith in general at this point must have been somewhat replaced by his more immediate hatred of Michael because of what Michael had done to his friends and the galaxy. Ronon was determined to destroy the base and he knew that Todd was equally determined to do so, so it made sense to work with him. Once the cruiser arrived Ronon knew he needed help to take the control room to blow the base and he didn't want to sacrifice his people, Todd told him that he also intended to finish his mission, so Ronon trusted him to help him because at that point they both knew that they weren't going to get out this alive, but that was alright because at least they would be taking out the base. At that point Ronon felt confident in trusting Todd because he knew that both had the same objective, and also realized that killing Todd would not only eliminate an ally, but also waste valuable time that he needed to complete his mission.

ziga1980
March 8th, 2008, 12:44 PM
That was my favorite part of the entire episode. I thought it was brilliant. It was a nice call back to Shep and Todd in Common Ground. Those two united to fight a common enemy with the understanding that once that was done, all bets were off.

I think this wasn't any different. Ronon is not dumb (despite what McKay may think). He was looking at the big picture. To have just killed Todd without any other thought would have just been spiteful and not really accomplished anything. Sure Ronon hates the Wrath and Todd. But when the balance of power in the Pegasus galaxy shifted from the Wraith to Michael, Ronon was able to focus on the new enemy. For the good of the galaxy instead of just mindlessly focusing on killing Wraith. Todd helped him towards a common goal. It really shows how much Ronon has grown since he's been on Atlantis. How much he learned form Sheppard.

Now had they made it out of that Wraith compound I think all bets would have been off.

looking at it this way it's kinda "brilliant." but thing that bugs me is that, carter sacrificed herself to take out 3 of Micheals hives. and Ronon only took out one cloning facility. nevertheless the worst part for me was that he just stood there and detonated the explosives. he should have gone crazy, made it out of the facility his sword in one hand and his gun in the other, heavily wounded and just collapse in front of the gate. that would be his way.

and Todd. i expected more of him. when he lost his food supply he should have started cloning humans (obviously he couldn't come up with a cure). gather a considerable strike force than move against Micheal.

this was indeed one very <teh language filters are there for a reason. learn to express yourself without profanity> up time line. still a very nice ep.

dasNdanger
March 8th, 2008, 01:26 PM
and Todd. i expected more of him. when he lost his food supply he should have started cloning humans (obviously he couldn't come up with a cure). gather a considerable strike force than move against Micheal.



Todd wasn't there yet. He was still depending on the mercies of Shep & Co. for help - he hadn't built up a force yet. He had one hive, and who knows if there were many Wraith on it. Michael struck hard and fast - he was wiping out the Wraith - few probably remained. Nothing Todd could do. AND...if they had shown him with a huge force, well...that would have required a 10 minute explanation, and there just wasn't time for that.

Todd was what he has been...a lone Wraith trying to survive in a galaxy that has suddenly become a very hostile place to be. For all they had to cover, the way they handled T&R was just perfect.


das

Boz4646
March 8th, 2008, 01:48 PM
That scene w/ Todd and Ronan reminded me of Teal'c and Ronan. Todd even stole Teal'Cs catch phrase "Indeed". I thought that was kinda odd...

Ltcolshepjumper
March 8th, 2008, 02:03 PM
That scene w/ Todd and Ronan reminded me of Teal'c and Ronan. Todd even stole Teal'Cs catch phrase "Indeed". I thought that was kinda odd...

Now that was PRICELESS.

rlr149
March 8th, 2008, 03:58 PM
looking at it this way it's kinda "brilliant." but thing that bugs me is that, carter sacrificed herself to take out 3 of Micheals hives. and Ronon only took out one cloning facility. nevertheless the worst part for me was that he just stood there and detonated the explosives. he should have gone crazy, made it out of the facility his sword in one hand and his gun in the other, heavily wounded and just collapse in front of the gate. that would be his way.

and Todd. i expected more of him. when he lost his food supply he should have started cloning humans (obviously he couldn't come up with a cure). gather a considerable strike force than move against Micheal.

this was indeed one very <teh language filters are there for a reason. learn to express yourself without profanity> up time line. still a very nice ep.

why? you've just said the forum has a language filter. may as well bin it if you have to re-re-edit it again after ;)

i liked the todd/ronan bit though, it is a bit out of char for ronan but it played out well, the "naturally" from todd was hilarious

FallenAngelII
March 8th, 2008, 04:02 PM
Why would he kill him when they had a common goal and he needed him?

"I dislike your race so I'll kill you for fun"?

dasNdanger
March 8th, 2008, 06:03 PM
Why would he kill him when they had a common goal and he needed him?

"I dislike your race so I'll kill you for fun"?


Yeah, that's called prejudice and I think Ronon was above that. He had real reason to hate Wraith as a whole, and yet, he's big enough to finally see Todd as an individual, separate from the whole. In the end, Ronon judged the 'man' - not for who he was (Wraith) - but by what he did...he stayed by his side and fought to the end, sacrificing himself so that, perhaps, others may live. How could Ronon NOT admire that?


das

Lythisrose
March 8th, 2008, 07:25 PM
I am a bit confused over these flashbacks, including Carter's last scene.
How does Rodney know how this whole final scene went down between them anyway? Was anyone left alive to tell the tale? Or is this how he imagines them in their final moments (cause he always did seem to respect Todd).
(On the other hand maybe we are seeing these events because TPTB want us to know what happened, and are showing us the reality despite McKay having no actual knowledge?). :S

Avenger
March 8th, 2008, 09:21 PM
Carter beamed the crew down to the planet and they gated back to Atlantis. Granted, no one was left on the ship when Carter nuked, but that easy enough to figure out.

eri-chan
March 8th, 2008, 09:57 PM
i loved every part of ronon and todd working together. i was totally expecting ronon to blast todd at some random time and it was so tense. but yeah the fact that they ended up working together showed me how much ronon had developed after "john" and teyla's death. i really do believe that that was his driving force.

i totally don't think it's out of character for ronon. he was a military man of some conisderable rank and you don't get there with a huge prejudice imo. and i think it's mostly that ronon hated michael more than todd that ronon was able to put aside his prejudice against the wraith and work with todd.

but yeah it was a beautiful scene. and to see them respect each other like that. and i really did like the last few words between them.

to me it felt like they both had nothing to lose by working together so they made the most out of it.

ziga1980
March 9th, 2008, 05:29 AM
still their end was very unlike them. they'd fight to the last breath. not just sit down and kill themselves. how many times ronon was in similar situation and he fought against all odds and survived. i assume todd is ronons version of a wraith. so they should have fought to the last breath. i know any real warrior would.

GoSpikey
March 9th, 2008, 05:48 AM
Some people just don't get the whole point of 'character development', do they... ;)

It was a great moment - a defining moment. It showed that even the worst of enemies can learn to put their differences aside for the greater good. It also showed both men...well...man and Wraith...that they were more alike than they ever realized. They were equals - no longer preditor and prey - and they died together as equals.

It was truly beautiful...


THANKS FenRiR FoXz for the screen caps, too! If you have more, please post them!


das

Thanks for that one, Das.

At least some people get it.

P-51D Mustang
March 9th, 2008, 06:03 AM
Well in teh Return part 1 Ronon said he cant leave this galixy untill every last Wraith is dead. And also the Wraith destroyed his home planet thats not something to get over easily.

GoSpikey
March 9th, 2008, 06:34 AM
this was indeed one very <teh language filters are there for a reason. learn to express yourself without profanity> up time line. still a very nice ep.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

But the scene had to end quickly, time was of the essence...

GoSpikey
March 9th, 2008, 06:36 AM
That scene w/ Todd and Ronan reminded me of Teal'c and Ronan. Todd even stole Teal'Cs catch phrase "Indeed". I thought that was kinda odd...


Now that was PRICELESS.

I noticed the :indeed: too, the second time. LMBO! :lol:

Sparrow_hawk
March 9th, 2008, 07:17 AM
still their end was very unlike them. they'd fight to the last breath. not just sit down and kill themselves. how many times ronon was in similar situation and he fought against all odds and survived. i assume todd is ronons version of a wraith. so they should have fought to the last breath. i know any real warrior would.
Ah, but Ronon is no longer just a rogue warrior. He is the leader of an army. And Todd is a former Wraith leader now waging his own guerrilla campaign against Michael. I agree that both Ronon and Todd are quintessential warriors and, in their hearts, wanted to go out fighting. However, they are in the lab for a very specific purpose: to strike a blow at Michael by destroying part of his capacity to make more hybrid warriors. They are acting for their cause.

In the early part of the scene, they learn that a Wraith cruiser has arrived and that they will soon be overrun by Michael's hybrid troups. Ronon's men say that they should abort the mission. But instead, Ronon takes the C4 from the soldier behind him as Todd watches them.


Todd: You intend to complete your mission?
Ronon: D**n right.
Todd: As do I.

They didn't have time to set up a timer or use Todd's cybersabotage scheme. They did the only thing they could do to insure the success of their mission and stayed there to detonate the explosives.

And, although they both recognized the irony of make their last stand side-by-side with someone who would normally be the enemy, they died as warriors. Maybe not as cool as charging the enemy with guns blazing, but IMO a glorious end for a warrior.

Aerilon
March 9th, 2008, 11:35 AM
I actually liked 'their' ending. They died together, and one could argue that they died with a form of respect for each other.

You don't have to like someone to respect them.

ziga1980
March 9th, 2008, 11:38 AM
Ah, but Ronon is no longer just a rogue warrior. He is the leader of an army. And Todd is a former Wraith leader now waging his own guerrilla campaign against Michael. I agree that both Ronon and Todd are quintessential warriors and, in their hearts, wanted to go out fighting. However, they are in the lab for a very specific purpose: to strike a blow at Michael by destroying part of his capacity to make more hybrid warriors. They are acting for their cause.

In the early part of the scene, they learn that a Wraith cruiser has arrived and that they will soon be overrun by Michael's hybrid troups. Ronon's men say that they should abort the mission. But instead, Ronon takes the C4 from the soldier behind him as Todd watches them.



They didn't have time to set up a timer or use Todd's cybersabotage scheme. They did the only thing they could do to insure the success of their mission and stayed there to detonate the explosives.

And, although they both recognized the irony of make their last stand side-by-side with someone who would normally be the enemy, they died as warriors. Maybe not as cool as charging the enemy with guns blazing, but IMO a glorious end for a warrior.

i understand all that. and i liked it just as you did my friend. perhaps i should make my point a bit more clearly.

my point is that they didn't accomplish very much. they only took out one of many cloning facilities Micheal had under control. it didn't stop Micheal or at least delay his operations. they did not make a difference. sacrificing yourself only has a point when you make a difference. if they retreated (possibly together) they could strike on other facilities and destroy many more (in a very wild scenario contact the genii and get them to send a nuke to this location ultimately completing their mission). i'm just saying if it was a real war this would be an appropriate course of action. but since they wanted to make Ronon and Todd heros they blew them up.

Lahela
March 9th, 2008, 12:13 PM
The Ronon/Todd sequence was the best part of the ep. Utterly in character for both of them! They didn't trust each other, but they knew they had a job to do which was bigger than either of them.

GoSpikey
March 9th, 2008, 01:47 PM
The Ronon/Todd sequence was the best part of the ep. Utterly in character for both of them! They didn't trust each other, but they knew they had a job to do which was bigger than either of them.

Lah! *Glomp*

Well said! Short and simple, very nice! :D

Sparrow_hawk
March 9th, 2008, 02:07 PM
i understand all that. and i liked it just as you did my friend. perhaps i should make my point a bit more clearly.

my point is that they didn't accomplish very much. they only took out one of many cloning facilities Micheal had under control. it didn't stop Micheal or at least delay his operations. they did not make a difference. sacrificing yourself only has a point when you make a difference. if they retreated (possibly together) they could strike on other facilities and destroy many more (in a very wild scenario contact the genii and get them to send a nuke to this location ultimately completing their mission). i'm just saying if it was a real war this would be an appropriate course of action. but since they wanted to make Ronon and Todd heros they blew them up.

Yes, I agree. It would have been better for everyone if Todd and Ronon stayed alive and continued help the opposition forces keep fighting the good fight. But, as you said, it wouldn't have made for that great heroic ending! I doubt that Todd and Ronon would have kept working together if they had gotten away, though. I thinkt that Ronon would have gone back to his army and Todd back to doing his solo cyberassaults.

The Genii scenario is interesting -- but Ronon would have to be the one to contact them. Todd would have the Genii for lunch!