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dasNdanger
March 8th, 2008, 06:53 AM
I am still amazed at what a great team these two made in TLM. There's such a chemisty between them, you just know whatever comes out of their mouths is going to be golden.

I cannot begin to express my joy over seeing them fight side-by-side, especially in hand-to-hand combat. It was like Sateda Meets Common Ground in all the best ways possible.

And, of course, the way they went out - in a blaze of glory, so to speak - was all too fitting. To have each (in their own way) acknowledge that their 'enemy' was their last ally just gets to me every time I think about it. I can't help but think that each felt it had been an honor to know the other, to see a side of human - or Wraith - that they never would have imagined. Todd's little nod, and Ronon's smile, just slays me each time I watch that scene - two world-weary warriors, going out together.

*sniffle*

The R&T scene was, in my humble, the best of the show, and quite possibly the best of the season. It showed so much growth in both characters - Todd didn't just save his own ass (as he's done in the past), but instead helped Ronon carry out his plan, and by doing so, helped Ronon's men flee to safety. And Ronon...in the end, he had no other choice, I suspect, but feel a sense of admiration for his most hated of enemies, a Wraith. It was all done so perfectly, so beautifully, that I can't get it out of my head.

Would like to hear how it affected others. For me, it's not just about Todd...perhaps it's actually more about Ronon, and the surreal situation he finds himself in at his very end - fighting side-by-side with an unlikely brother-in-arms, a loathsome, life-sucking Wraith.

I'd just love to see more team-ups with these two in S5 and beyond, though I'm not holding my breath. I suspect this is all we will ever see, but it's enough to let my imagination run wild with all the possibilities of what could be.

das

reddevil18
March 8th, 2008, 07:03 AM
Yeah, the two of them together are great. I hope we see more of that in season 5.

wraith form Replicator
March 8th, 2008, 09:04 AM
Was cool alright. We're not going to see more of them next season, its out of character for ronon to fight with wraith so the writers can't do it that much, if at all. :ronan:

dasNdanger
March 8th, 2008, 10:29 AM
Was cool alright. We're not going to see more of them next season, its out of character for ronon to fight with wraith so the writers can't do it that much, if at all. :ronan:


Well, I doubt we'd see anything like this again...though it would be nice to see the team cautiously allow Todd to tag along in maybe one or two episodes next season, and fight alongside them...kinda like their pet pitbull. ;)

I don't expect to see Todd much next season for several reasons. First, Heyerdahl is working on Sanctuary, which was just picked up by Sci Fi and who knows what their filming schedule is. Second, there doesn't seem to be any stories (at least in the first half of the season) that indicate there's any need for Wraith help (unless Micheal isn't defeated in S&R, or he's somehow involved in Broken Ties). JM did say that Todd will make 'an appearance', but for all we know, it could be just one - and it could be his last. So...not holding my breath. Also, if they have future plans for the character, they may not want to overuse him - better quality appearances than quantity.

I would be happy with two quality appearances in each half of the season...spaced nicely apart - 4 isn't too much to ask for if they're going to keep the character around. In S4, Todd had good-sized roles in The Seer and BAMSR, smaller parts in Spoils of War and Kindred, and 'cameos' in Miller's Crossing and The Last Man. That's 6 episodes...not very many, but all memorable, especially this last one. But if they're afraid of overusing the character, then I could even see reducing the number of episodes he appears in, IF he gets a little more quality screen time and development per episode.

(Of course, in my perfect little world, he'd be made a permanent character in the show, with regular appearances throughout the season (though not every episode).

das

naamiaiset
March 8th, 2008, 10:44 AM
I agree, it was one of the best scenes in the season. who knew ronon would be the one to finally treat a wraith as an equal? ;)

dasNdanger
March 8th, 2008, 12:55 PM
I think these two are ready for their very own buddy movie, what do you say?? ;)

I still can't get over how well their scene was written, and handled by the actors. If I didn't know better, I'd say they very much enjoyed themselves when filming that scene. Hee...I wonder how many times Todd had to say "Naturally" before he got it JUST right...because, just right it was indeed...

;)

das

KindlyKeller
March 8th, 2008, 01:00 PM
That was a really cool scene. One of the best-delivered lines in the episode:

"Naturally."

xSFx
March 8th, 2008, 01:30 PM
The perfect commando: Ronon, Teal'c and Todd.

And now, for some screens:
http://img233.imageshack.us/img233/7180/bscap0021zt4.jpg
http://img117.imageshack.us/img117/9647/bscap0031qt1.jpg
http://img117.imageshack.us/img117/7562/bscap0032el2.jpg
http://img117.imageshack.us/img117/998/bscap0033ej5.jpg
http://img117.imageshack.us/img117/7236/bscap0056ed2.jpg
http://img233.imageshack.us/img233/906/bscap0057rr2.jpg
http://img233.imageshack.us/img233/6709/bscap0059ut0.jpg
http://img233.imageshack.us/img233/8115/bscap0060vz1.jpg

Hopefully, the writers now know that we're really impressed by moments like this and will give us more in the future :D

dasNdanger
March 8th, 2008, 01:46 PM
Hopefully, the writers now know that we're really impressed by moments like this and will give us more in the future

Soooooo....yer sayin' they should blow Ronon and Todd up EVERY WEEK????!!!

:P

Be sure to post your thoughts on JM's blog - it can't hurt for him to see the positive reaction to scenes and moments like this.


It was a great one.


das

jyh
March 8th, 2008, 04:46 PM
you're right, it was a great scene.

Possible spoiler if you haven't seen it yet:


However, when they were fighting the hybrid wraith, and almost ended up killing each other, it was great when Ronon said "force of habit" and Todd came back with "Indeed." I almost expected Ronon to say something along the lines of "You sound like someone else I know...." :-p

dasNdanger
March 8th, 2008, 06:18 PM
you're right, it was a great scene.

Possible spoiler if you haven't seen it yet:


However, when they were fighting the hybrid wraith, and almost ended up killing each other, it was great when Ronon said "force of habit" and Todd came back with "Indeed." I almost expected Ronon to say something along the lines of "You sound like someone else I know...." :-p

That was a fun moment, and I think a little 'nod' to Teal'c, and perhaps to Midway. Just as Ronon had to put his personal feelings aside to work together with Teal'c in that episode, so too, he had to do it here. It would be nice to imagine that Todd's little 'indeed' reminded Ronon of that moment in his life, and of another friend who stood by his side in battle.

My, how things had changed...guess we can assume he saw the irony in it, too.

Love these two together...would love more of it in S5 - just not sure anything now can top this scene.


das

pisces27
March 8th, 2008, 06:53 PM
That was a really cool scene. One of the best-delivered lines in the episode:

"Naturally."

Todd rocks! I loved them pairing up to fight a common cause even though they are enemies.

dasNdanger
March 9th, 2008, 04:23 PM
On JM's blog - someone asked if any of the sad events about the future would eventually come true, and his reply was....'hmmmmmmm'.

NOW I worry more for dear ol' Todd! LOL. I really must move on to more important things, but I really love this character. I think I read that Sanctuary is in production now (that may be on JM's blog, too), which would mean that Chris is probably not available for SGA filming (assuming he's working on Sanctuary), so I'm guessing we won't see much of him in S5 - especially the beginning part. I so hope they don't have Todd go down in a blaze of glory - alone - perhaps taking out Michael, or something.

Maybe that's why they made Todd and Ronon's scene SO special...because there's no chance we'll ever see such a thing in the seasons to come.

So...I asked JM if we should start the 'save Todd' campaign now. :P Doubt he'll reply, but it was worth a try....


das

GoSpikey
March 9th, 2008, 04:30 PM
For a moment there, I thought Todd was crying out because Ronon was cutting his locks off with that sword!

:D

And you know how much I luff Todd's hair...! *drools*

Zanlee
March 9th, 2008, 10:22 PM
Seeing my two fav SGA characters first working together, and then going out in that "Cassidy/Sundance" blaze of glory really made my day. Don't know if it was the best scene all season, but for some reason I can't think of a better one, so yeah, maybe it is. lol

I love the new sig Das!

^_^

GoSpikey
March 10th, 2008, 08:00 AM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v54/dasNdanger/RononTodd1e.jpg

*Drools*

GREAT ONE, DAS !!!!!!!!!!!

I'm thinking about getting a Todd one, too! *g*

Not that I know how to make one!

What's Ronon compensating for? Look at how small Todd's knife is, hehe!

dasNdanger
March 10th, 2008, 09:06 AM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v54/dasNdanger/RononTodd1e.jpg

*Drools*

GREAT ONE, DAS !!!!!!!!!!!

I'm thinking about getting a Todd one, too! *g*

Not that I know how to make one!

What's Ronon compensating for? Look at how small Todd's knife is, hehe!

:lol:


Todd is obviously secure in his...erm...bughood. :D Nothing to prove.

I have a REALLY REALLY stupid question....

Do you think the Wraith realize they are bugs? I mean...they think of themselves as Wraith and all of that, but Carson said they are more closely related to the iratus bug than to humans. So...do you think they acknowledge they are more bug-like than human-like - or do you think they ignore their connection to bugs, sort of like how they ignore their connection to humans, and just think of themselves as Wraith - neither bug nor human?


das

Pitry
March 10th, 2008, 01:15 PM
Todd rocks! And the Ronon-Todd dyanimc is the best thing that happeend to SGA since... well, basically, since David Hewlett gave them the idea to be McKay.

Make Todd a regular member of Sheppard's team, and have those scenes every week, I say! It'd be like Vala in SG1.

Well, seaosn 9 Vala hopefully.

naamiaiset
March 10th, 2008, 03:57 PM
:lol:


Todd is obviously secure in his...erm...bughood. :D Nothing to prove.

I have a REALLY REALLY stupid question....

Do you think the Wraith realize they are bugs? I mean...they think of themselves as Wraith and all of that, but Carson said they are more closely related to the iratus bug than to humans. So...do you think they acknowledge they are more bug-like than human-like - or do you think they ignore their connection to bugs, sort of like how they ignore their connection to humans, and just think of themselves as Wraith - neither bug nor human?


das
they have insect characteristics/tendencies, so they probably acknowledge themselves as bug-like on some level. overall though, I'd say they just see themselves as wraith.

Sparrow_hawk
March 10th, 2008, 06:05 PM
they have insect characteristics/tendencies, so they probably acknowledge themselves as bug-like on some level. overall though, I'd say they just see themselves as wraith.
I agree. As intelligent as they are, they surely know their DNA is derived from human and Iratus bug elements. But they are more than just their DNA.
They are Wraith.

dasNdanger
March 10th, 2008, 06:24 PM
they have insect characteristics/tendencies, so they probably acknowledge themselves as bug-like on some level. overall though, I'd say they just see themselves as wraith.

Yeah - I think they see themselves as Wraith - above both species that they have evolved from, but having more respect (it seems) for their insect ancestors than their human, seeing as how their human ancestors are now their food. Heh.

When I think of the Wraith in Condemned, and how pleased with himself he was that he enjoyed the 'finer' things, it makes me wonder how they perceive their own, icky existence in the hives...with all the umbilicals and veins and membrane and goo, compared to the relative sterility of human enviroments. I guess it's not disgusting to them at all, which makes such a nice contrast between the ickiness of their enviroment, and their neat and tidy personal appearance (well, except for Todd's hair, but we forgive him for that).

I got off the subject...

das

garhkal
March 10th, 2008, 07:43 PM
Watching this i was hoping i would see them too at least give a grudging not to one another before they pressed the button.. kind of like showing each other one final bit of respect. But other than that, i loved their final scenes..

MattSilver 3k
March 11th, 2008, 12:05 AM
Todd for Regular status!

No seriously, I think the little Ronon sequence made the finale the best finale since Siege 2 (That includes SG1 finales!) - that and McKeller were awesome.

dasNdanger
March 11th, 2008, 04:52 AM
Watching this i was hoping i would see them too at least give a grudging not to one another before they pressed the button.. kind of like showing each other one final bit of respect. But other than that, i loved their final scenes..

Well, they did. Todd gave a nod and a very slight smile, then Ronon smiled, and pressed the button. In the end, they respected one another, and showed.


Todd for Regular status!

No seriously, I think the little Ronon sequence made the finale the best finale since Siege 2 (That includes SG1 finales!) - that and McKeller were awesome.

Would LOVE to see Todd as a regular, but I doubt that will happen. Chris Heyerdahl (Todd) is involved with Sanctuary, and that was just picked up by Sci Fi...so I'm sure he'll be way busy with that. I suppose we can hope to see him make an appearance or two next season, but I doubt we'll be treated to seeing Todd in 6 episodes like this season. But hey - if they DO manage to include him in that many in S5 - I will NOT be complaining.

I've been encouraging people to share their appreciation for Todd on Joe Mallozzi's blog - http://www.josephmallozzi.wordpress.com/

Fans express their appreciation for the other characters there, so a mention of Todd now and than can't hurt.


das

jelgate
March 11th, 2008, 05:01 AM
^I don't want to anger the Wraith fanatic, but it does not make sense for Todd to become a regular. After all is said and done, he is still the enemy. He wouldn't hestitate to stab us in the back (as seen in Midway). Todd unlike the average Wraith is able to see the bigger picture. Making him a regular would be the same as making Ba'al a regular. Todd is a good character but not a great regular

dasNdanger
March 11th, 2008, 05:41 AM
^I don't want to anger the Wraith fanatic, but it does not make sense for Todd to become a regular. After all is said and done, he is still the enemy. He wouldn't hestitate to stab us in the back (as seen in Midway). Todd unlike the average Wraith is able to see the bigger picture. Making him a regular would be the same as making Ba'al a regular. Todd is a good character but not a great regular

Actually - I wouldn't want to see him as a 'regular' character - not like Ronon, or Teyla. It would lessen his impact when he makes an appearance if you see him every. single. week.

But to have him as a regular re-occurring character - yeah, that could be fun. Half a dozen episodes wouldn't be too much to ask for if he's to become the 'face of the Wraith'.

And yes - he's an 'enemy', and eventually his nature will force him to feed upon humans...but THAT is what makes the relationship SO interesting, and enjoyable!!! I'm amazed that more people don't see how this makes for a BETTER story - to be allied with someone who, down inside, wants to eat you. NOT because he's evil, but because he's hungry and is driven by instinct.

We've all been intrigued by animal acts - animal handlers like Siegfried and Roy. Why? Because we know what they are doing IS dangerous...and that was proven when the tiger 'attacked' Roy. But the tiger didn't attack him because it was evil - it attacked out of INSTINCT. And Roy realized that, and didn't hate the tiger for it - instead, he insisted that the tiger not be killed for what it did.

So - the same idea can translate over to SGA. Todd is the tiger that the SGA team is trying to 'handle'. They may use it for an 'act' (mission) - They will cage it - they might even feed it - but ultimately, they cannot change its nature. One day, it might bite back. But do you kill it for that? Or do you try to understand its nature, and take added precautions to avoid getting bitten again?

I would like to see the latter. I wouldn't mind seeing Todd 'lose it', and lash out to attack a Lantean (not to fully feed on one, but perhaps to start) - and for him to be pulled off - threatened with death - but to appeal to them on the basis of his nature, and to be forgiven. It would take a LOT for the Lanteans to pardon him for giving into his nature, but it would be an interesting look into their characters...and whether or not they are willing to try to understand the 'tiger', or just kill it and stuff it and hang it on the wall with all their other misunderstood trophies.

Their tolerance of Todd can reveal so much about THEM, just like the Ronon/Todd scene in TLM revealed so much about Ronon, and the type of man he really is. And having Todd around a bit more can make viewers more understanding of the Wraith's situation - and the more we understand, the more we care, and the more we care, the more ALL the characters in the show matter - and not just the stars. That makes fans connect with the show as a whole, instead of just one or two characters. I know - it's happening with me. I'm here BECAUSE of Todd - but I am starting to like other characters because of the way they've interacted with him. The more depth I see in all the characters, including the Wraith, the more interested in the show I become.

So...yeah. To make him a regular re-occurring character can't hurt - as long as he's NOT overused (too much of a good thing can be bad), and his appearances focus on quality screen time, and not quantity.

das

Zanlee
March 11th, 2008, 06:26 PM
To make him a regular re-occurring character can't hurt - as long as he's NOT overused (too much of a good thing can be bad), and his appearances focus on quality screen time, and not quantity.


I totally agree with Das on this one. A good re-occurring character is not necessary one we see a lot of, but rather, one that is used for great plot moments.
That is what made this Ronon/Todd moment so cool. We didn't spend half the episode with them, but when we did see them, it was totally worth it. The icing on the cake, of a great episode.

^_^

Sparrow_hawk
March 11th, 2008, 06:52 PM
I totally agree with Das on this one. A good re-occurring character is not necessary one we see a lot of, but rather, one that is used for great plot moments.
That is what made this Ronon/Todd moment so cool. We didn't spend half the episode with them, but when we did see them, it was totally worth it. The icing on the cake, of a great episode.

^_^
I agree. Quality, not quantity. And no one wants Todd turned into Sheppard's tame Wraith. We don't need to have a Lieutenant Worf added to SGA.

dasNdanger
March 11th, 2008, 08:14 PM
I agree. Quality, not quantity. And no one wants Todd turned into Sheppard's tame Wraith. We don't need to have a Lieutenant Worf added to SGA.


EXACTLY!! Not Worf - Kern, maybe...but not Worf. I want to see Todd maintain that edge, and remain unpredictable and dangerous.

One interesting thing is that Ronon may have been informed about his future, and how he went out with Todd. But Todd - Todd doesn't know this, and probably will never know it. So, Ronon may soften VERY slightly towards Todd - which could leave an opening if our Wraithy friend ever felt like 'getting the upper hand'.

But I doubt it - I don't think Ronon is that foolish to be lulled into a false sense of security over what might happen in the future. Still, it would be to see a 'different' reaction between the two next time they meet - if they meet again.

das

StarOcean
March 11th, 2008, 11:19 PM
And yes - he's an 'enemy', and eventually his nature will force him to feed upon humans...but THAT is what makes the relationship SO interesting, and enjoyable!!! I'm amazed that more people don't see how this makes for a BETTER story - to be allied with someone who, down inside, wants to eat you. NOT because he's evil, but because he's hungry and is driven by instinct.
<snip>
So - the same idea can translate over to SGA. Todd is the tiger that the SGA team is trying to 'handle'. They may use it for an 'act' (mission) - They will cage it - they might even feed it - but ultimately, they cannot change its nature. One day, it might bite back. But do you kill it for that? Or do you try to understand its nature, and take added precautions to avoid getting bitten again?

I would like to see the latter. I wouldn't mind seeing Todd 'lose it', and lash out to attack a Lantean (not to fully feed on one, but perhaps to start) - and for him to be pulled off - threatened with death - but to appeal to them on the basis of his nature, and to be forgiven. It would take a LOT for the Lanteans to pardon him for giving into his nature,

Das, I'm going to disagree with your view here and I'm bothered that you see Todd like an animal. The way you're describing him makes him seem like someone who can't change or control his instincts. Which I disagree with.

It's the nature of the Wraith to feed on humans, yes. That's something they can't change. But I disagree that it's an driving instinct. They instinctual know that they need to feed on humans when they come of age and crave it. But I don't think the choice itself is so instinctual that there needs to be an effort of control. The existence of worshippers and Todd's actions already proves that it's not an instinct. They can choose. But because they can't feed on anything but humans, that choice is either eat or painfully starve. In that aspect of survival, they don't have a choice. And of course, if they're hungry, they're going to want to eat.

So, I don't see Sheppard forgiving Todd any time soon if he lunges to feed on one of his people.

I think what makes the interactions between Todd and the Expedition so great is, not because Todd wants to eat them (I don't think he does), but because he has no choice but to kill at the moment. (Why don't Wraiths take a tithe?) So SGA have a moral and philosophical dilemma every time they deal with him. If the next time they meet and let Todd go, they're essentially letting someone who is guaranteed to prey on humans go free. But then this means that the SGA have accepted that the Wraith as a whole are not evil. And most importantly, I think Sheppard and his team are realizing that they can't apply their moral code on Todd.

dasNdanger
March 12th, 2008, 05:38 AM
Das, I'm going to disagree with your view here and I'm bothered that you see Todd like an animal. The way you're describing him makes him seem like someone who can't change or control his instincts. Which I disagree with.

But they are 'animals' - or, closer related to an insect than to humans. They are not considered to be human, but to be creatures, or 'beings'...a different species in the 'animal' kingdom. Even among themselves they refer to 'their kind', or simpy call themselves Wraith (or by title). They certainly would not wish to be compared to lowly humans.

So I mean 'animal' by biology. We know they act upon instinct - Michael said that he would have fed on Teyla - NOT by choice - but by instinct because it was his nature. This indicates that they have NO choice in the matter. True, Todd can CONTROL his hunger, control his urge to slap his hand against someone's chest and feed - but that doesn't mean that - eventually - that instinct won't make him lash out even against his closest of human 'friends'. It is what drives him - and all Wraith - to survive. They don't pursue the arts, or entertainment - all of their intelligence and resources are put into finding new and better ways to hunt and to feed. It is what drives them.


It's the nature of the Wraith to feed on humans, yes. That's something they can't change. But I disagree that it's an driving instinct. They instinctual know that they need to feed on humans when they come of age and crave it. But I don't think the choice itself is so instinctual that there needs to be an effort of control. The existence of worshippers and Todd's actions already proves that it's not an instinct. They can choose. But because they can't feed on anything but humans, that choice is either eat or painfully starve. In that aspect of survival, they don't have a choice. And of course, if they're hungry, they're going to want to eat.

They can't 'choose' - they can 'control'. The Wraith girl did NOT want to feed, but she did because it was her instinct. She could only control it to an extent before she HAD to give into her nature. So, in this regard, they have no choice (again, Michael said that specifically in explaining his need to feed, that it was NOT a choice). Likewise, Todd will only be able to control it to an extent before, regardless of who it is, he'll feed upon them. Todd, obviously, has great self-control, probably due to his years of starvation in prison...he's learned to suppress his desire, to 'control' it - but the ultimate 'choice' is still out of his control.

Look at it this way - humans have the choice to be good or bad. They can choose to be evil, or kind. They can choose to kill, or not to kill. The Wraith, driven by the instinct and need to feed, have NO choice in the matter. They must kill in order to live. And they kill, not because they 'choose' to be evil, or bad, but because it is part of their nature, just like a shark, or tiger or kittycat will kill another living thing in order to survive.

Ya know, a cat is a good example here. I have 4 cats, and I keep them well-fed, and indoors. But, once in a while we let them in the yard with us when we're out their with them, and you know what the first thing is they do? They start hunting the birds and the squirrels. Even though one of my cats has NEVER killed anything (we got her as a kitten, and she's lived inside all her life), as soon as she goes outside, she suddenly wants to eat all the birdies. :rolleyes:

So, like a cat that hunts and kills on instinct, so does a Wraith. My cat doesn't sit there, look a bird, and say, "I choose not to kill the bird because it would be a bad thing to do" - no, the cat is not capable of doing that. The cat sees the bird as food, the hunt as a stimulant for its appetite.

Same with the Wraith. The hunt is sport, something that stimulates their appetite for their human prey. The kill is for survival, it has nothing to do with being good, or bad. They act upon their animal instincts since they are more closely related to the animal kingdom, than the human.


So, I don't see Sheppard forgiving Todd any time soon if he lunges to feed on one of his people.

If he comes to truly understand their nature, I think he would try to be a little forgiving. Mad, but he might let Todd slide - once. Shep didn't kill Larrin's Wraith after he fed (and was forced to give back), but let him go. I think, after his CG experience, he does have some understanding of what drives a Wraith to kill...it's not something evil inside that they can control, but their hunger, something they can't control based on their nature.


I think what makes the interactions between Todd and the Expedition so great is, not because Todd wants to eat them (I don't think he does),

I dunno - he already said that Teyla would make some 'lucky Wraith a very tasty meal' - that idea didn't JUST pop into his head, but indicates that the thought of feeding upon her has already run through his head - I would think at the end of Spoils of War, when she was defying his wishes by waiting for Sheppard to return. He started to snarl... hee. I can't help but think that Todd - had he convinced them to leave - would have soon fed upon them all. He has no tie to anyone but Sheppard - the others, I'm sure, he still views as food (even - and probably especially - Rodney).

And I agree - it's what makes working with Todd so exciting! It's like a cat teaming up with a bunch of mice...you never know when he's going to pounce on one of them out of pure instinct.


but because he has no choice but to kill at the moment. (Why don't Wraiths take a tithe?) So SGA have a moral and philosophical dilemma every time they deal with him. If the next time they meet and let Todd go, they're essentially letting someone who is guaranteed to prey on humans go free. But then this means that the SGA have accepted that the Wraith as a whole are not evil. And most importantly, I think Sheppard and his team are realizing that they can't apply their moral code on Todd.

I HOPE they have come to this understanding. See...since this is science fiction, I have no problems with the whole 'Wraith eat people' thing, just like I have no problem with sharks or tigers or any other animal eating people. But once you start to think of Wraith on HUMAN terms, then it changes...because for a human to feed on a human is just...sick (I was never a fan of Dracula, either). So, as long as they are continued to be viewed as 'creatures', as 'animals' - then it makes what they do more understandable, and makes me more sympathetic towards them.

I think a lot of Wraith haters fail to do this - they see Wraith as a type of human that feeds on other humans, as monsters who kill for the sheer pleasure of it. But when you view them on the same level as animals who must hunt and kill out of an instict to survive - well...it changes things.

Rambling now...sorry.....

:p

das

GoSpikey
March 12th, 2008, 07:43 AM
*Puts on the Todd parts of 'The Seer'*

:eek: Todd knows about Ronon being a Runner?

When did that happen?

PS: And Todd's voice is like totally off? :(

PS 2: They loaded the virus in a non-network computer, which means someone shouldn't have had access to things? :cool:

PS 3: Man, how he enjoyed his little joke... :P

dasNdanger
March 12th, 2008, 09:09 AM
*Puts on the Todd parts of 'The Seer'*

:eek: Todd knows about Ronon being a Runner?

When did that happen?

Of course Todd knows ALL about the Lanteans. He knows that Ronon is a runner - he knows of McKay's connection to the Replicator virus. Why? Well...lemme guess....

Todd has been in a Genii prison for unknown years - probably more than 10.

Todd escapes with the help of a human known as Sheppard - someone the Genii have a history with.

Todd watches as a group of humans with 'Atlantis' patches on their uniform rescue Sheppard. They are not only heavily armed, but they have ships - ones that cloak. Hmmmmm....Could they REALLY be from Atlantis??!

Todd's FIRST day back among his own kind...

Todd (linking minds with his fellow Wraith): "Tell me ALL you know of this 'John Sheppard', and 'Atlantis'..."

The Wraith seem to share a lot of information. Enough Wraith have been affected by those who awoke them all, so I'm sure that Sheppard and the Lanteans, and the things they have done, are well-known to all Wraith, or at least most of them. And I'm sure the way Ronon defeated his Wraith hunters on Sateda became common knowledge, considering how the hive watched, and was not destroyed. Imagine Todd returning, perhaps inquiring of the Wraith commander who hunted Ronon in Sateda (he may once have been an ally of Todd's) - only to find out how this lowly runner defeated the Great Wraith. Yeah - I can imagine there were a lot of unhappy Wraith after that, and seeing as how easy they turn on one another, I'm sure all the blame would have fallen on that commander for his arrogance, etc.

Todd has been back among his own, and he's getting all the intel now - he probably knows just about everything there is to know about the Lanteans, and what problems they've caused for his kind. And yet...he continues to play along with them. Hedging his bets, I suppose - "keep your friends close but your enemies closer" seems to be Todd's tactic at the moment. Very smart, actually....


PS: And Todd's voice is like totally off? :(

It's that computer enhancement. It's probably hard to keep it consistent. Also, might have had a different sound tech on CG than what they had for S4. Of course, Todd was mostly dead in most of CG, so his voice was slower and weaker - he's like that again in Miller's Crossing when he...faints. :p


PS 2: They loaded the virus in a non-network computer, which means someone shouldn't have had access to things? :cool:

I think Todd tapped into Rodney's computer when Rodney went off in his excitement to put forth is replicator plan. Todd's little 'hmmmm' may have meant "Hmmmm. Looks like we're almost done here. I better get some data out of these computers before I don't have free access any more..."

And yeah - Todd thought he was one funny Wraith! Of course, Ronon got him back with his 'we're here to kill you' joke, which Todd didn't find amusing at all... :D


das

GoSpikey
March 12th, 2008, 12:02 PM
And yeah - Todd thought he was one funny Wraith! Of course, Ronon got him back with his 'we're here to kill you' joke, which Todd didn't find amusing at all... :D

das

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a172/Wendy_the_Bloody/The%20Kindred/HDTVsga-4x18-2371.jpg

Did you? :cool:

ori soldier
March 12th, 2008, 12:26 PM
i really liked the climatic scene with ronon and todd however this thread is striking me as a ronon and todd shipper which i am completly against:lol: also the best scene was carters death scene i just prefered the darkness of it

GoSpikey
March 12th, 2008, 12:47 PM
i really liked the climatic scene with ronon and todd however this thread is striking me as a ronon and todd shipper which i am completly against:lol: also the best scene was carters death scene i just prefered the darkness of it

With a title like that, yes they indeed meant the Ronon and Todd scene.

The scene where Carter died was pretty lame in my opinion, since they didn't even, or practically even returned fire on those 3 Hives, while, when there were only 2, they fired and fluently won. That's not a weapons update,... It's a 'let's just get her quickly down cos we only have 2 minutes' thing.

dasNdanger
March 12th, 2008, 12:55 PM
i really liked the climatic scene with ronon and todd however this thread is striking me as a ronon and todd shipper which i am completly against:lol: also the best scene was carters death scene i just prefered the darkness of it

AHAHAHAHAHAAaaaaa.....eeeeeeeeeeewwwww!!!!

*suddenly imagines Todd and Ronon sharing hair care tips...* :S


das

GoSpikey
March 12th, 2008, 01:16 PM
AHAHAHAHAHAAaaaaa.....eeeeeeeeeeewwwww!!!!

*suddenly imagines Todd and Ronon sharing hair care tips...* :S


das

Das, if you wanna read a Todd/Shep story, just ask. I got one. And it's feeding that does it. :D

ciannwn
March 12th, 2008, 02:25 PM
AHAHAHAHAHAAaaaaa.....eeeeeeeeeeewwwww!!!!

*suddenly imagines Todd and Ronon sharing hair care tips...* :S

Who would want to take hair care tips from Todd???

dasNdanger
March 12th, 2008, 02:36 PM
Who would want to take hair care tips from Todd???


My hair looks like Todd's, only brown... :p But I do brush it!! :D


das

ciannwn
March 12th, 2008, 02:39 PM
My hair looks like Todd's, only brown... :p But I do brush it!! :D

Do you have your hair tucked inside the necks of coats and jackets, though? He certainly has a unique style for Wraith. :D

dasNdanger
March 12th, 2008, 02:50 PM
Do you have your hair tucked inside the necks of coats and jackets, though? He certainly has a unique style for Wraith. :D

:o

Yeah. In fact, one day I had a long black skirt on, with a black leather coat (about the length of the Allies scientist's jacket), and my hair (yes, often tucked into my collar) - and my husband looked at me, and told me I looked like Todd. :p I do NOT do it on purpose...this was my style LONG before discovering SGA...


das

ciannwn
March 12th, 2008, 03:04 PM
Yeah. In fact, one day I had a long black skirt on, with a black leather coat (about the length of the Allies scientist's jacket), and my hair (yes, often tucked into my collar) - and my husband looked at me, and told me I looked like Todd. :p I do NOT do it on purpose...this was my style LONG before discovering SGA...

I am now trying very hard not to imagine Todd in a long black skirt. :D

dasNdanger
March 12th, 2008, 03:06 PM
I am now trying very hard not to imagine Todd in a long black skirt. :D

:lol:

First time I saw him (well, saw any Wraith in the long coats) I DID think they wore skirts.... :p


das

ciannwn
March 12th, 2008, 03:08 PM
First time I saw him (well, saw any Wraith in the long coats) I DID think they wore skirts.... :p

The long coats made me think of Pinhead from the 'Hellraiser' movies.

GoSpikey
March 12th, 2008, 03:23 PM
So Das, no Shep/Todd for you? :P

:o

dasNdanger
March 12th, 2008, 04:28 PM
So Das, no Shep/Todd for you? :P

:o

If it's slash - no.

If it's long - no.

But if it's short and sweet and nothing slashy about it...I'll give it a go. Thing is - I might TYPE long posts, but I hate to read long stories (I have ADD really bad - so I read comic books since they're about the only thing that holds my attention).


das

GoSpikey
March 12th, 2008, 06:00 PM
If it's slash - no.

If it's long - no.

But if it's short and sweet and nothing slashy about it...I'll give it a go. Thing is - I might TYPE long posts, but I hate to read long stories (I have ADD really bad - so I read comic books since they're about the only thing that holds my attention).


das

*sigh*

5k words, and slash, but feeding related. :)

garhkal
March 12th, 2008, 06:48 PM
With a title like that, yes they indeed meant the Ronon and Todd scene.

The scene where Carter died was pretty lame in my opinion, since they didn't even, or practically even returned fire on those 3 Hives, while, when there were only 2, they fired and fluently won. That's not a weapons update,... It's a 'let's just get her quickly down cos we only have 2 minutes' thing.

IIRC of that one it was a trap and they were fired upon before they could get shields and weapons up and running. Ergo they decided to flee to deny the opposition the benefit of fighting at a time and place of THEIR choosing.

Repli!kat
March 12th, 2008, 07:59 PM
*sigh*

5k words, and slash, but feeding related. :)

I'd like a link to your story, if it isn't too much trouble.:)

GoSpikey
March 13th, 2008, 03:30 AM
I'd like a link to your story, if it isn't too much trouble.:)

It's here:

http://sandrine.livejournal.com/699268.html#cutid1

Enjoy.

dasNdanger
March 17th, 2008, 09:45 AM
It's here:

http://sandrine.livejournal.com/699268.html#cutid1

Enjoy.

Okay - I tried...until Shep made a mess. I don't like slash stories at all. *shudder*

What I LOVE is male camaraderie - brothers-in-arms type stories. I think that's why I LOVED this scene with Ronon and Todd (to a lesser degree, Ronon and Teal'c in Midway). To see men put aside their egos and learn to work together for a common goal...well, that really works for me.

I've been a long-time fan of Age of Sail stories - men at sea, living and fighting and dying aboard a wooden ship of sail - something romantic about the sea, and intriguing about the idea of men being forced to survive under the harsh conditions of living at sea. Sure, there were instances of improper conduct between crewmates, but that's not the part I'm interested in. When reading AoS stories, the battle scenes were always my favorite - then the medical attention and ship repair thereafter.

So, I wouldn't mind seeing something like that with Todd and the Lanteans. Isolated in some way, learning to survive - with Todd getting weaker and hungrier. I'm not sure Todd can just return life unless he has extra to give, so he couldn't simply snack on the Lanteans and give it back. He'd have to drain a complete human, like he did at the end of Common Ground - he had six guards to feed upon - not sure he fed on all, but we know he did on at least two. Then, when he is more than full, he has plenty to give back in return.

But anyway - getting off the subject. Since TLM whetted my appetite for it, I would LOVE to see a situation where Ronon and Todd are stuck together, and forced to work together in order to escape. Best case scenario would be for Ronon to be unarmed (since we know he'd kill Todd in an instant), and perhaps injured. It would be interesting to speculate how Todd would treat him. The Wraith tend to treat humans with a rough and heavy hand. So, even if he was injured, would Todd be heavy-handed with Ronon, perhaps dragging him to safety (thinks Wraith warriors in Kindred), or would he lift him up and carry him? I'm thinking...he'd drag Ronon (would be a better visual), toss him into a shelter of some sort, and provide him with what HE thinks is humane treatment and creature comforts. Sure - fine for a Wraith, but not a human. There would have to be a common enemy, and a reason for the two to work together (Ronon because he has no choice, Todd because he wants something in return). Ronon, as he gets stronger, could even show Todd a thing or two about fighting...

Ronon: "No...not like that. Don't just stand there and take fire...at least try to duck..."

Todd: "It is this coat, it is still new and stiff. And my pants are...binding. Everytime I bend over, they ride right up my..."

Ronon: "Yeah, I noticed that. We call 'em 'wedgies'."

Todd: "Ah, I see. Among Wraith we have come to refer to them as...'rodneys'...because they are such a pain in the ass..."

~~~~~

So sorry...I just can't stay serious for too long.... :p


das

ciannwn
March 17th, 2008, 10:03 AM
Todd: "Ah, I see. Among Wraith we have come to call them...'rodneys'...because they are such a pain in the ass..."
das

:lol: I'd love to hear him say that in his Wraith voice.

dasNdanger
March 17th, 2008, 10:26 AM
:lol: I'd love to hear him say that in his Wraith voice.


Hee! :o I can hear him now practically growling out 'rodneys'...and for some reason, I see Ronon giving a little shrug in agreement...

:p

das

Sparrow_hawk
March 17th, 2008, 02:18 PM
What I LOVE is male camaraderie - brothers-in-arms type stories. I think that's why I LOVED this scene with Ronon and Todd (to a lesser degree, Ronon and Teal'c in Midway). To see men put aside their egos and learn to work together for a common goal...well, that really works for me.

I prefer that type of plot as well. Probably why I love CG so much, and the Todd and Ronan team-up.


I'm not sure Todd can just return life unless he has extra to give, so he couldn't simply snack on the Lanteans and give it back. He'd have to drain a complete human, like he did at the end of Common Ground - he had six guards to feed upon - not sure he fed on all, but we know he did on at least two. Then, when he is more than full, he has plenty to give back in return.

I think so, too. They need a surplus. Or they need to be willing to go back to whatever condition they were in before they fed. Might be willing to do it if they were just snacking, but not if they were really hungry when they fed.

Ronon, as he gets stronger, could even show Todd a thing or two about fighting...

Ronon: "No...not like that. Don't just stand there and take fire...at least try to duck..."

Todd: "It is this coat, it is still new and stiff. And my pants are...binding. Everytime I bend over, they ride right up my..."

Ronon: "Yeah, I noticed that. We call 'em 'wedgies'."

Todd: "Ah, I see. Among Wraith we have come to refer to them as...'rodneys'...because they are such a pain in the ass..."

Thanks, das! I needed that. Tough day at work. Yeah, must be tough to fight in those long leather coats and snug leather pants.

naamiaiset
March 18th, 2008, 08:46 AM
It's here:

http://sandrine.livejournal.com/699268.html#cutid1

Enjoy.
wow... your's puts a fic I wrote to shame. good job. :)

Doll-of-Broken-Glass
March 18th, 2008, 02:11 PM
Thanks, das! I needed that. Tough day at work. Yeah, must be tough to fight in those long leather coats and snug leather pants.[/QUOTE]


ya but you have to admit they sure look cool

I think the dynamic between the two (the bizerker Ronon and the stealth/stratigist Todd) was what made it so interesting like Teal'c an Ronon, only with more edge cuz they are loathed enemies

dasNdanger
March 18th, 2008, 02:26 PM
Thanks, das! I needed that. Tough day at work. Yeah, must be tough to fight in those long leather coats and snug leather pants.

My pleasure!! Wait til you hear what Wraith call purple nurples... ;)


I think the dynamic between the two (the bizerker Ronon and the stealth/stratigist Todd) was what made it so interesting like Teal'c an Ronon, only with more edge cuz they are loathed enemies

Exactly. First, we expect Ronon to 'blow things up', but we don't expect him to give Todd a little smile before he does. He probably saw the irony of the situation, but he also had to acknowledge that - perhaps - he WAS 'mistaken' about this one Wraith. Nice. And then there was stealthy Todd, finally getting a chance to fight hand-to-hand (first time since Common Ground ), and that was SOOOO sweet to see! Ronon having a moment of reflection, and Todd finally getting to kick some butt. Just made the whole scene electrifying and exciting. Too bad it wasn't LONGER!

*sigh*

I guess it's a waste of energy to hope for more of that in the future, but it sure would be great to see....

das

Doll-of-Broken-Glass
March 18th, 2008, 05:36 PM
ya I thought that they had a real dynamic and that it really was nice to see Todd in action again CG was my favorite ep. I think that Ronon's little moment of reflection really did show how he had evolved and grown as a person and leader. and ya I really wish it had been longer...I know it's not likely but I'm holding out for those two tag-teaming it in the non-alternate future!

oh and Das sweet Todd pic!

garhkal
March 18th, 2008, 07:13 PM
man, yet another great joke at mccay's expense..

GoSpikey
March 20th, 2008, 12:56 PM
wow... your's puts a fic I wrote to shame. good job. :)

Oh, I didn't write this. Just linked it. :D

Link us yours? :P