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    What is wrong with these people?

    Every time they encouter a duplicate they start to act paranoic about it. Yes, i mean Shepp, Rodney, Ronon, Teyla, Sam, Keller, everybody: they have difficulties expressing a coherent speech, throw up funny/scared sights, they are always suspicious, place few armed guard excorts to make the guest feel like a prisoner and unwelcome.

    Finding Beckett was oviously an accident so coundn't be a wraith trojan horse, but they still follow their paranoia and throw dirty talks behind him ... 'leading them into an ambush' that's crazy. If everything were to be premeditated, the Wraith would have sent an infected clone to spread an airborn virus, game over. It's not like they are very hard to capture; all it takes is 1-2 darts with beaming technology.

    But what will happen if they find a cure for Carson's condition? The fact that he is a clone, make him less real? Would he be allowed to the same rights like the original? Or the black suits will throw him in a A51 small cells under constant observation?

    At least this litlle episode proove few points i made for 'Outcast'. A biological entity can be subject to the same treatment and reprogramming like a technological one. There is a little science called genetics that work wonders same as the programming base codes, especially in sci-fi.

    Anyway it seems curious their reaction to this type of artificial life forms, who happen to be, without a choise of their own. It would seem that technological we advance very fast, few hundred of years, but the writers have difficulties to make the same advancement in our philosophical/moral code, ledding to some 'hard to belive situations'. They mentained the short-sightness and intolerance of the 20 and 21 cencturies, Earth and added some very nice weaponry to protect that intolerance and short-sightness. In this scenario it only take a power-hungry politician, Kinsley type to maipulate the situation and to take control and start a crusade in the galaxy.

    This seem harsh i know, but in my opinion they reached a point when there is no sense in keeping all this 'life on other planets' a secret and it is also dangerous. People from Earth have the right to know and to choose, for example learning advance astro-phiscs rather than doing other lauzy jobs or tasks (maby this way, they wouldn't look to a cone or a replica like to an abomination). Didn't you find strange that people who hunt and fish for a living get to travel on other planets and to eventualy explore ancient outposts and on Earth people who came close to the truth are killed by strange vehicles and threaten with imprisonment and treason (electic chair?)? I see how this can be necesarely at the begining, but we are nearly at the end. We have strong hold in 2 galaxies and no offence but Atlantis is no 'hail mary in the Eart's history', if the people who has the right to decide the scentists to study it is Weir or Woolsey or another office dork. So as i see it the Earth look more and more like a prison and its inhabitans like prisoners or tax payers whatever, both phisically and mentaly. If the news would be out, i had a feeling that many people would want out both phisically and mentaly.

    #2
    What you are describing is a century old science fiction concept (wether or not clones are the same people as the originals), and also a century old dillema over cloning in real life.
    My heart beats in 13/8.

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      #3
      I assume your point is that they should have immediately trusted Carson and all he had to say, despite the fact he was dead?

      If that is not your point you are going to have to clue me in as I couldn't make sense of your post, sorry.

      If the first part is correct: They are a military base, Carson turned out to be a risk, lead them into an ambush, he is controllable by Michael (wonder if he told them that when he got back to Atlantis?) and he is NOT CARSON anyway.

      That thing is not Carson. They may as well have made him a Replicator 'cause I will never except him as anything but second rate and not to be trusted.

      Comment


        #4
        Actually I was a bit surprised about the lack of trust too, or more accurately I was surprised that Rodney who is usually really suspicious was the one to automatically accept Carson even after it was revealed that he was a clone. I guess I would have liked to have seen some more close interaction with Carson and Sheppard or Ronon. I didn't like the distance although I suppose it was understandable since he wasn't technically the "real" Carson.
        sigpic

        Find your Destiny

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          #5
          The weakest part of this whole episode, and there were oodles of weak parts, was Rodney's blind acceptance of Carson as Carson. That goes against all we know about Rodney and it made me wonder if tptb even cared about that, I think they just wanted to get this out of the way... have Carson back and have us as an audience just shrug off any of these little inconsistencies in characters.

          I say little but really it is a huge fraking inconsistency for McKay.

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by Willow'sCat View Post
            I assume your point is that they should have immediately trusted Carson and all he had to say, despite the fact he was dead?

            If the first part is correct: They are a military base, Carson turned out to be a risk, lead them into an ambush, he is controllable by Michael (wonder if he told them that when he got back to Atlantis?) and he is NOT CARSON anyway.

            That thing is not Carson. They may as well have made him a Replicator 'cause I will never except him as anything but second rate and not to be trusted.
            Michael needed both his compassion and expertise to clone him with the exact personality traits of Carson Beckett. He didn't control him, but merely placed a protection block in his genetic code. They should have made him welcome in Atlantis after 2 years of imprisonment and mental torture not treat him like a freak; this is what the original Carson would have probably wanted.

            You see things from a very common perspective, a clone is not necesarely a burden or a problem, but can be a second chance, a new Carson's continuity, in the context with his death, an heir, and a extra briliant phisician saving maby more lifes than his predecesor.

            I won't go in a 'security risk' debate again as we go nowhere with people who can make from anything a security risk, and the truth is that anything can be a security risk in a sci-fi; even Sam can have a goa'uld implanted as we speak.

            There 2 things that bother me though:

            1. Earthlings lack of respect for sentient life in general. They are very sensitive when it came to the life forms created by artificial means. You wouldn't think that they fly in spcecrafts in different galaxies where the meet and met hudreds of species and posibilities; their reactions are not sci-fi adjusted, but made from the view point of some 2007-2008 human who know that in his book he is still alone in the universe.

            2. Atlantis main characters reactions to these clone/replica encoutres in 'Kindred' and 'Mortal Coil', even with the ones that represent extentions of dead people, close friends are very cold and suspicios and full of prejudicies. The concept of unicity is explored to extrem with no concern for the duplicate feelings, who may not be the original but share his personality and is entitled to use it as a result of his creation.

            I don't like the ideea that so many good people (Carson even Ava Dixon) are seen like outcasts just because their different means of creations or nature. There are a lot of Earth's born citizens who have more rights and deserve less.

            Comment


              #7
              Well I totally disagree Carson IS dead. You might like to invite strangers into your home 'cause they look like a duck but I am less obliging.

              Carson is a freak! If I wasn't an atheist I would call him an insult to God. But as I am an atheist I will just go with freak.

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by Willow'sCat View Post
                Well I totally disagree Carson IS dead. You might like to invite strangers into your home 'cause they look like a duck but I am less obliging.

                Carson is a freak! If I wasn't an atheist I would call him an insult to God. But as I am an atheist I will just go with freak.
                but we're glad he's back right?
                sigpic
                The Sam Carter/Amanda Tapping Thunk thread The Sam/RepliCarter Ship Thread

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                  #9
                  Originally posted by Willow'sCat View Post
                  Well I totally disagree Carson IS dead. You might like to invite strangers into your home 'cause they look like a duck but I am less obliging.

                  Carson is a freak! If I wasn't an atheist I would call him an insult to God. But as I am an atheist I will just go with freak.
                  There is no need to exagerate to made your anti-point.

                  BTW, Rodney was probably the coldest of all, despite trying to be very talkative and suportive to the ideea, he didn't had an healty eye exchange with Carson until he got frozen. His behaviour is similar with one he had when Michael was in the converting process. DH, a great actor, but not Rodney.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by elbo View Post
                    Michael needed both his compassion and expertise to clone him with the exact personality traits of Carson Beckett. He didn't control him, but merely placed a protection block in his genetic code. They should have made him welcome in Atlantis after 2 years of imprisonment and mental torture not treat him like a freak; this is what the original Carson would have probably wanted.

                    You see things from a very common perspective, a clone is not necesarely a burden or a problem, but can be a second chance, a new Carson's continuity, in the context with his death, an heir, and a extra briliant phisician saving maby more lifes than his predecesor.

                    I won't go in a 'security risk' debate again as we go nowhere with people who can make from anything a security risk, and the truth is that anything can be a security risk in a sci-fi; even Sam can have a goa'uld implanted as we speak.

                    There 2 things that bother me though:

                    1. Earthlings lack of respect for sentient life in general. They are very sensitive when it came to the life forms created by artificial means. You wouldn't think that they fly in spcecrafts in different galaxies where the meet and met hudreds of species and posibilities; their reactions are not sci-fi adjusted, but made from the view point of some 2007-2008 human who know that in his book he is still alone in the universe.

                    2. Atlantis main characters reactions to these clone/replica encoutres in 'Kindred' and 'Mortal Coil', even with the ones that represent extentions of dead people, close friends are very cold and suspicios and full of prejudicies. The concept of unicity is explored to extrem with no concern for the duplicate feelings, who may not be the original but share his personality and is entitled to use it as a result of his creation.

                    I don't like the ideea that so many good people (Carson even Ava Dixon) are seen like outcasts just because their different means of creations or nature. There are a lot of Earth's born citizens who have more rights and deserve less.
                    Originally posted by Willow'sCat View Post
                    Well I totally disagree Carson IS dead. You might like to invite strangers into your home 'cause they look like a duck but I am less obliging.

                    Carson is a freak! If I wasn't an atheist I would call him an insult to God. But as I am an atheist I will just go with freak.
                    Jeez. You both have ideas that are way extreme, but on opposite sides of things.

                    Carson is dead. There's no doubt about. Not taking precautions would be negligent. Once they were ambushed after he told them a location they had every right to be more suspicious. They had no idea what Michael had done to him. If he could imprint safe-guards into his makeup then who knows what else he could do and Atlantis was completely right not to accept him without question or doubt.

                    On the other hand, being a clone doesn't mean he needs to be treated like a freak or locked up or something. And it isn't his fault that he was cloned in the first place, so it's just plain wrong to act like he's some kind of monster. He obviously only wanted to help, and is basically the same Carson from before. Just because he's a clone doesn't mean he's not human.

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                      #11
                      diddnt the fact that micheal could "compel" carson to not shoot him proof that they were right in their caution?

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by Jumper_One View Post
                        but we're glad he's back right?
                        No

                        I am not happy at all about it. I think it is the single worse thing SGA has done... besides putting Weir in the leadership role of course. I am anti-Carson coming back, more now then I was before.

                        And again I have to say it... Carson is still dead. This is not Carson. He is human in a freak kind of way, but he is not Carson Beckett. I think Carson would have been appalled myself. I know I wouldn't want a clone running around taking over from where I left off... that is just creepy.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          I prefer to think of him as Carson 2.0: The new and improved formula. Now available in several exciting new citrus-fruit flavors.

                          Or we can say that Michael invented New Carson, better tasting but with a calorie-free yet slightly carcinogenic aspartame substitute.
                          Last edited by desh; 01 March 2008, 09:17 PM.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Why do you call him a freak? To an athiest, a clone with all the same memories and experiences would make him the same person. Only someone that believed we had souls would say it was not Carson, in one form or the other.

                            In Farscape, which John was real after he was copied? No test could find any differences between the 2. Making them the same person. I would say the same applies to any clone if the clone had all the same memories as the original. If the clone had no memories of the original then the clone would be a completely new person.
                            Butch

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by butchinharriman View Post
                              Why do you call him a freak? To an athiest, a clone with all the same memories and experiences would make him the same person. Only someone that believed we had souls would say it was not Carson, in one form or the other.
                              According to who? You can be an atheist and still believe a clone is an abomination to nature. You can believe in a god and still think he is not, you can be gay and a Christian! Welcome to the year 2008!

                              This Carson is not the real one so he is a feak.

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