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SpaceTrout
February 12th, 2008, 12:53 PM
:teyla: So its a Boy. But what would be a good name?
What will happen to it when Tyelas of on missions?

Hey maybe Carson could come back as a Nanny (Manny) for it! :beckett: :)
And is Keelac (Athosion dude i think thats his name) really the father?

Hmm..?

Try and Stay positive now.

Wraithy baby or one that could kick Butt just like Teyla ?




:beckett: Alright..But dont be Jelous when i bring back a record braking Space Trout .. Thankyou!

reddevil18
February 12th, 2008, 01:17 PM
:teyla: So its a Boy. But what would be a good name?
What will happen to it when Tyelas of on missions?

Hey maybe Carson could come back as a Nanny (Manny) for it! :beckett: :)
And is Keelac (Athosion dude i think thats his name) really the father?

Hmm..?




:beckett: Alright..But dont be Jelous when i bring back a record braking Space Trout .. Thankyou!
The child shall be eaten alive. It has been decided. No need to name it.

Fenrir Foxz
February 12th, 2008, 01:19 PM
The child shall be eaten alive. It has been decided. No need to name it.

And Michael has the job I take it? :P

reddevil18
February 12th, 2008, 01:25 PM
And Michael has the job I take it? :P

Well, if you look at the Deepest, Darkest Desires thread, I believe you will see that it ranges from giant bunnies(my fave) and giant serpents to Bola-Kai and clowns with friggin lasers on their friggin heads.

Bonbon
February 12th, 2008, 01:29 PM
it comes out all wraith-y, and everyone is like, "oh snap", but teyla is all, "dudes, it's my baby" and runs off to marry michael and they live happily ever after.

cabouse18
February 12th, 2008, 01:30 PM
The child shall be eaten alive. It has been decided. No need to name it.

Yes by a clown with a freaking laser beam on its head :lol:


it comes out all wraith-y, and everyone is like, "oh snap", but teyla is all, "dudes, it's my baby" and runs off to marry michael and they live happily ever after.

Somebody get me a bucket.....I don't feel so good all of a sudden;)

Jumper_One
February 12th, 2008, 03:24 PM
Well, if you look at the Deepest, Darkest Desires thread, I believe you will see that it ranges from giant bunnies(my fave) and giant serpents to Bola-Kai and clowns with friggin lasers on their friggin heads.

:lol:


it comes out all wraith-y, and everyone is like, "oh snap", but teyla is all, "dudes, it's my baby" and runs off to marry michael and they live happily ever after.

that's just... :S

cabouse18
February 12th, 2008, 03:29 PM
SEND IN THE CLOWNS!!:lol:

They are apparently needed in this thread too;)

Jumper_One
February 12th, 2008, 03:32 PM
SEND IN THE CLOWNS!!:lol:

They are apparently needed in this thread too;)

http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee163/Jumper_One/Clown.jpg

cabouse18
February 12th, 2008, 03:35 PM
http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee163/Jumper_One/Clown.jpg

Where's the freaking laser beam??? :lol:

wm_1987
February 12th, 2008, 03:43 PM
And is Keelac (Athosion dude i think thats his name) really the father?



Kanaan is the athosian guy. But I'm not sure if he really is the father. In the episode info for season five, for the first episode makes it sound like he's not.
Here's a link so you can see. Am I just reading to much into this?

http://www.gateworld.net/atlantis/s5/501.shtml

Jumper_One
February 12th, 2008, 03:47 PM
Where's the freaking laser beam??? :lol:

;)
http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee163/Jumper_One/Military_laser_experiment.jpg

cabouse18
February 12th, 2008, 03:48 PM
;)
http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee163/Jumper_One/Military_laser_experiment.jpg

On the clown's head, dude!! :lol:

cabouse18
February 12th, 2008, 03:50 PM
Kanaan is the athosian guy. But I'm not sure if he really is the father. In the episode info for season five, for the first episode makes it sound like he's not.
Here's a link so you can see. Am I just reading to much into this?

http://www.gateworld.net/atlantis/s5/501.shtml

No...I am of the same mind.

Jumper_One
February 12th, 2008, 03:56 PM
On the clown's head, dude!! :lol:

ok I suck at this :P
http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee163/Jumper_One/Military_laser_experimentclown.jpg

cabouse18
February 12th, 2008, 03:58 PM
ok I suck at this :P
http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee163/Jumper_One/Military_laser_experimentclown.jpg

RALMAO :lol:

Jumper_One
February 12th, 2008, 04:00 PM
RALMAO :lol:

sorry but I told I'm not good at this

cabouse18
February 12th, 2008, 04:02 PM
sorry but I told I'm not good at this

doesn't matter you still made me laugh;)

Jumper_One
February 12th, 2008, 04:03 PM
doesn't matter you still made me laugh;)

that's the important thing :)

haloplayer
February 12th, 2008, 04:17 PM
I just hope that the baby is not some Human-Wraith hybrid. If that happened i would be sick and not feel well. Also it will be completley immpossible since 2 things of a different species can not bring forth a baby.

reddevil18
February 12th, 2008, 05:03 PM
Well, I already posted it on the Desires thread, but since there seems to be a great need for clowns, I thought I'd give you my own version of a friggin clown with a frigin laser on his friggin head. Yeah, I suck at this too:
http://i31.tinypic.com/11cfrex.jpg

Jumper_One
February 12th, 2008, 05:06 PM
Well, I already posted it on the Desires thread, but since there seems to be a great need for clowns, I thought I'd give you my own version of a friggin clown with a frigin laser on his friggin head. Yeah, I suck at this too:
http://i31.tinypic.com/11cfrex.jpg

ah come on that's a MUCH better pic ;)

reddevil18
February 12th, 2008, 05:10 PM
ah come on that's a MUCH better pic ;)

Well...*cough*...yes, it is...:p I just couldn't resist. The kid looking freightened as hell - just made me think of Teyla's baby as he faces imminent death!:D

Jumper_One
February 12th, 2008, 05:13 PM
Well...*cough*...yes, it is...:p I just couldn't resist.

I'm glad you couldn't :)


The kid looking freightened as hell - just made me think of Teyla's baby as he faces imminent death!:D

LOL I didn't even think of that :P

cabouse18
February 12th, 2008, 05:18 PM
Well, I already posted it on the Desires thread, but since there seems to be a great need for clowns, I thought I'd give you my own version of a friggin clown with a frigin laser on his friggin head. Yeah, I suck at this too:
http://i31.tinypic.com/11cfrex.jpg

:lol: RALMAO

cabouse18
February 12th, 2008, 05:19 PM
I just hope that the baby is not some Human-Wraith hybrid. If that happened i would be sick and not feel well. Also it will be completley immpossible since 2 things of a different species can not bring forth a baby.

Sounds like a type of car you could be able to buy some day. He would run on half food and half life force!!

ciannwn
February 13th, 2008, 01:54 AM
Also it will be completley immpossible since 2 things of a different species can not bring forth a baby.

This is the Stargate universe where Iratus bugs which feed on humans can pass human DNA onto their offspring. Do this over a number of generations and you get Wraith. :D

atlantis_babe34
February 13th, 2008, 02:16 AM
http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee163/Jumper_One/Clown.jpg

keep the freaking clown away from me!

Wraith My Mind
February 13th, 2008, 09:47 AM
iv always had a sneeky suspicion that it not the athosian blokes baby!

she always seems shirfty wen they talk about him, i want it to be Ronan's or maybe wraith baby mite be cool! who Knows? guess we'l just have to w8

as for name, probs a strange athosian name, i cant imagine them letting john name it bob, steve or todd can you? lol

cabouse18
February 13th, 2008, 10:03 AM
keep the freaking clown away from me!

Don't worry he won't hurt you; he only wants the baby!;)

reddevil18
February 13th, 2008, 10:23 AM
Don't worry he won't hurt you; he only wants the baby!;)

I can make no such guarantee regarding my killer Ronald clown...;)

Amalthea
February 13th, 2008, 01:04 PM
I just hope that the baby is not some Human-Wraith hybrid. If that happened i would be sick and not feel well. Also it will be completley immpossible since 2 things of a different species can not bring forth a baby.

I believe if they're close enough genetically, they can, producing such things as mules: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hybrid_%28biology%29 My personal favourite is the wolphin.

The question is whether or not humans and Wraith are close enough genetically for it to work.

In terms of this pregnancy, I do not want any Wraith to be the father. Just a nice, normal boy would work very well for me. That way, he can just be left in daycare while his mom works like normal humans. lol

cabouse18
February 13th, 2008, 03:07 PM
I can make no such guarantee regarding my killer Ronald clown...;)

:lol: Killer Ronald needs big mac to tide him over til the baby gets here!!! He totally kicks arse though;)

Jumper_One
February 13th, 2008, 03:16 PM
keep the freaking clown away from me!

I'll try :P

Reiko
February 13th, 2008, 04:13 PM
Hey maybe Carson could come back as a Nanny (Manny) for it! :beckett: :)


I wouldn't mind that ... Okay, I would like it. It keeps him close to Atlantis and he could help with the Athosians :D


Well, if you look at the Deepest, Darkest Desires thread, I believe you will see that it ranges from giant bunnies(my fave) and giant serpents to Bola-Kai and clowns with friggin lasers on their friggin heads.

I need to visit that thread :D


http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee163/Jumper_One/Clown.jpg

Ahhhh! Keep it away from me, or you shall be subjected to David Hewlett's rear! (Which I know men find really scary! ;) )

Jumper_One
February 13th, 2008, 04:20 PM
Ahhhh! Keep it away from me, or you shall be subjected to David Hewlett's rear! (Which I know men find really scary! ;) )

:eek:
http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee163/Jumper_One/A%20Dogs%20Breakfast/ADB6.png

jelgate
February 13th, 2008, 04:22 PM
:eek:
http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee163/Jumper_One/A%20Dogs%20Breakfast/ADB6.png

:eek:I'm blind

Reiko
February 13th, 2008, 04:27 PM
:eek:
http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee163/Jumper_One/A%20Dogs%20Breakfast/ADB6.png

*gasp* You've survived! :D

Anyways, much much better than the clown. You have made me a happy fangirl, Jumper_One. ;)

Jumper_One
February 13th, 2008, 04:31 PM
:eek:I'm blind

sorry...again :P




*gasp* You've survived! :D

:indeed: :D


Anyways, much much better than the clown. You have made me a happy fangirl, Jumper_One. ;)

I'm glad you're happy :) how about these? :P
http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee163/Jumper_One/A%20Dogs%20Breakfast/ADB1.png
http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee163/Jumper_One/A%20Dogs%20Breakfast/ADB2.png
http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee163/Jumper_One/A%20Dogs%20Breakfast/ADB3.png
http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee163/Jumper_One/A%20Dogs%20Breakfast/ADB4.png
http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee163/Jumper_One/A%20Dogs%20Breakfast/ADB5.png

cabouse18
February 13th, 2008, 04:31 PM
:eek:I'm blind

Me too:eek:

reddevil18
February 13th, 2008, 04:32 PM
:eek:
http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee163/Jumper_One/A%20Dogs%20Breakfast/ADB6.png

Well, not as bad as I thought it'd be...:o

Reiko
February 13th, 2008, 04:41 PM
I'm glad you're happy :) how about these? :P
http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee163/Jumper_One/A%20Dogs%20Breakfast/ADB1.png
http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee163/Jumper_One/A%20Dogs%20Breakfast/ADB2.png
http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee163/Jumper_One/A%20Dogs%20Breakfast/ADB3.png
http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee163/Jumper_One/A%20Dogs%20Breakfast/ADB4.png
http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee163/Jumper_One/A%20Dogs%20Breakfast/ADB5.png

Better than ever :D :D :D


Well, not as bad as I thought it'd be...:o

-pats- See, it isn't so bad, is it? It's not like you're gonna be traumatized for life, guys ;)

Jumper_One
February 13th, 2008, 04:44 PM
Better than ever :D :D :D



-pats- See, it isn't so bad, is it? It's not like you're gonna be traumatized for life, guys ;)

let's just say it's a very cool movie ;)

cabouse18
February 13th, 2008, 04:58 PM
let's just say it's a very cool movie ;)

worth buying?

Jumper_One
February 13th, 2008, 05:00 PM
worth buying?

definitely!

Amalthea
February 13th, 2008, 07:03 PM
When did this turn into the ADB thread? lol I will note that I feel it is worth buying as well. :)

Pharaoh Atem
February 13th, 2008, 07:09 PM
:teyla:What will happen to it when Tyelas of on missions?


it would be no different then anyone as the SGC you leave your child with someone you go off world...come back. i'm sure something will be set up for her.

worst case ...ronon will babysit

jelgate
February 13th, 2008, 07:10 PM
it would be no different then anyone as the SGC you leave your child with someone you go off world...come back. i'm sure something will be set up for her.

worst case ...ronon will babysit

I think Rodney would be worse than Ronon.

Pharaoh Atem
February 13th, 2008, 07:11 PM
I think Rodney would be worse than Ronon.

rodney is great with kids :D

jelgate
February 13th, 2008, 07:12 PM
rodney is great with kids :D

Maybe the AU rodney from McKay and Mrs. Miller.

Jumper_One
February 13th, 2008, 07:21 PM
rodney is great with kids :D

wait until Jack visits ;) :P

Pharaoh Atem
February 13th, 2008, 07:25 PM
he would macgyver a way to take care of the kids

Jumper_One
February 13th, 2008, 07:27 PM
he would macgyver a way to take care of the kids

:lol: :indeed:

Fenrir Foxz
February 13th, 2008, 07:30 PM
he would macgyver a way to take care of the kids

:lol:

Yeah, build a cage with tooth picks and dental floss :P

Jumper_One
February 14th, 2008, 09:15 AM
:lol:

Yeah, build a cage with tooth picks and dental floss :P

I bet he could do that ;) :P

nx01a
February 14th, 2008, 10:25 AM
Bunnies, giant snakes, laser clowns, Rodney's butt... Why can't people just hope the child is born normal and healthy and happy? After the kidnapping, of course.

Just because other pregnancies and babies have been done horribly in sci-fi doesn't mean this one will. Maybe Teyla'll be the best Action Mom ever? Maybe tptb will be able to pull off writing a believable working, potentially single mother who oh my god Atlantis is doomed.

vaberella
February 14th, 2008, 10:48 AM
:teyla: So its a Boy. But what would be a good name?
What will happen to it when Tyelas of on missions?

Hey maybe Carson could come back as a Nanny (Manny) for it! :beckett: :)
And is Keelac (Athosion dude i think thats his name) really the father?

Hmm..?

Try and Stay positive now.

Wraithy baby or one that could kick Butt just like Teyla ?




:beckett: Alright..But dont be Jelous when i bring back a record braking Space Trout .. Thankyou!

It's Kanan. I doubt he's the dad. I don't even think she slept with the guy. At the moment and as outlandish as it is, which makes it more so realistic in the case of SGA, is that Michael concocted the whole shebang.

Kanan is a red herring for all things Michael.

Going back to Missing, was it ever established in later eps or even a shown connection in later eps of the character that was on Missing and the Athosians?! Nothing yet. He claimed to be Athosian and that was found out to be a lie. Now it would seem we were supposed to Kanan during S4, apparently cast ( or at this point this was what RL told us in her interview) and yet nothing as of yet.

Michael is probably invovled in this and that creature using Teyla as a host is one of his manufactured products. I also think that Carson may have been invovled in doing it...I know it freaks people out.

But I think Carson probably helped Michael against his will and Michael used his own scientific no-how and during Vengeance he injected her with something. I think Kanan was either made up or a guy she was getting close too but no one she got close too.

The writers lately have thrown a lot of bones and so have the actors, but too many things don't coincide so I'm taking bits here and there that make more sense. Kanan should have been presented earlier on I would expect or at least in S4. So far nada, and no talk of him showing up. Rumor has it we get to meet the guy in S5, that's about 2 years too late, and doesn't fly for me.


In any event, the thing is an inhumane parasite who has some human functions and therefore can survive in Teyla.

I keep picturing those alien creatures in X-Files: Fight the Future....where basically they needed human hosts. They'd pop out all scaly and stuff and look like gremlins before they smooth out into the typical corny looking aliens. At least they looked better than the talking turd, E.T.

ciannwn
February 14th, 2008, 10:55 AM
Michael is probably invovled in this and that creature using Teyla as a host is one of his manufactured products. I also think that Carson may have been invovled in doing it...I know it freaks people out.

If that's the actual plot I hope one thing is explained convincingly. Why would Michael have let Teyla go back to the one place in the Pegasus galaxy with advanced medical equipment and techniques? Nobody can be 100% certain that nothing can go wrong with a pregnancy so there'd always be a risk of an Atlantis doctor discovering that Teyla's baby wasn't what everyone was led to believe.

cabouse18
February 14th, 2008, 11:05 AM
Bunnies, giant snakes, laser clowns, Rodney's butt... Why can't people just hope the child is born normal and healthy and happy? After the kidnapping, of course.

Just because other pregnancies and babies have been done horribly in sci-fi doesn't mean this one will. Maybe Teyla'll be the best Action Mom ever? Maybe tptb will be able to pull off writing a believable working, potentially single mother who oh my god Atlantis is doomed.

That is sarcasm right? Cuz seriously, the we're screwed if that were the case and you are serious.;)

cabouse18
February 14th, 2008, 11:07 AM
If that's the actual plot I hope one thing is explained convincingly. Why would Michael have let Teyla go back to the one place in the Pegasus galaxy with advanced medical equipment and techniques? Nobody can be 100% certain that nothing can go wrong with a pregnancy so there'd always be a risk of an Atlantis doctor discovering that Teyla's baby wasn't what everyone was led to believe.

Yeah but w/o any evidence to the contrary, Keller probably never would have dug any deeper than to say the baby is healthy....And Michael probably knew that in order to keep this experiment a secret he would have to let Teyla go and that she and the baby would be well taken care of in Atlantis.

Rac80
February 14th, 2008, 11:17 AM
I just hope that the baby is not some Human-Wraith hybrid. If that happened i would be sick and not feel well. Also it will be completley immpossible since 2 things of a different species can not bring forth a baby.
ummm try horse + donkey = mule (sterile but it is offspring!)




Better than ever :D :D :D



-pats- See, it isn't so bad, is it? It's not like you're gonna be traumatized for life, guys ;)

you wanna bet I'm not traumatized??? I've got a degree in psychology I know what trauma is!!! (and seeing rodney's a** qualifies! :S )

vaberella
February 14th, 2008, 11:18 AM
If that's the actual plot I hope one thing is explained convincingly.
Not necessarily.

It could have been just me but ever since the episode Michael, I figured Michael has had a really "now" sick and disturbing obsession with Teyla. I always had him probably thinking he could take Teyla as his Queen. How fitting would it be to get her pregnant with a creature?!

There are two people Michael hates the most on the Atlantis Ex. Which makes these two people he wants to see punished for what they did to him. He would basically see all of the Ex dead, but he would gain pleasure out of causing an unmeasured amount of pain and psychological trauma to Teyla and Carson. They were the ones closest to him, and Teyla was the fake friend.

They're relationship is the most controversial relationship in all of SGA history and totally beats out Sheppard/Kolya. Teyla basically was involved in Michael's "rape" twice. At first she was against it and refrained from it, then he went back to the wraith and he was at that point her enemy. If we go to No Man's Land, it was Teyla who ordered him injected again even though she was under direct order to do so. The problem is Michael saw Teyla.

He's the most logical enemy to do something to Teyla. And if Teyla was impregnated by a human, I sincerely doubt the mental abilities of the "thing" would be so superior. This had to be influenced by something.


Why would Michael have let Teyla go back to the one place in the Pegasus galaxy with advanced medical equipment and techniques? Nobody can be 100% certain that nothing can go wrong with a pregnancy so there'd always be a risk of an Atlantis doctor discovering that Teyla's baby wasn't what everyone was led to believe.

I would agree with that but there are tones of loopholes that open that up for the scenario mentioned.


First off, Michael would already have a working knowledge of what was going on in the medical base on Atlantis, so who better than him to know first hand what they would do and what they wouldn't do and what medical checks there are.

If this "thing" is a of wraith descent or even a creature superior to the wraith...especially considering a Michael involvement. Go all the way back to Instinct, the writers established one fact. The Wraith basically live off of human food until around 7 or years of age. If you were doing tests, tests that really don't touch on neo-natal wraith genes and their functions, but just the blood test of the mother and a sonogram of a picture of a "human-like" fetus it's unclear whether they would be able to tell any difference or pick up any differences and end up terminating the kid. I see Michael betting on this. If we go back as far as "The Gift" and some wraith scientists were doing experiments on humans, you have no idea if that was the only person doing such tests. We don't even have to go that far back because Vengeance also showed us that he knew human physiology fairly well. There could be a huge amount of tests being done on humans in the Peggy that is...remember the Wraith are vast in number and only kept in hibernation because of lack of food population. In any event, the key point I wanted to make clear is that we can assume that Michael is aware of human physiology.

I'm sure Michael was aware there wasn't a chance that Teyla could get pregnant, but based on his vast knowledge of physiology and paticularly those in the Peggy, and then one who already has a wraith gene. There would be a higher chance of a sucessful conception.

nx01a
February 14th, 2008, 11:18 AM
I think Teyla's character would be the best Action Mom ever, and the kid would grow up in the coolest and biggest playpen in several galaxies: Atlantis. As for how Teyla and her motherhood could/will/might actually be written, that's another story.

The thought of Michael and Carson cooking up from in vitro monstrosity and having Kanan 'implant' it seems perfectly sci-fi to me. And it was really Michael who took the Athosians? And Michael who left that guy behind posing as a Genii in 'Missing'? Mmm. Who needs the technology of the Asurans when you've got the biology of Trip... I mean, Michael?

vaberella
February 14th, 2008, 11:42 AM
I think Teyla's character would be the best Action Mom ever, and the kid would grow up in the coolest and biggest playpen in several galaxies: Atlantis. As for how Teyla and her motherhood could/will/might actually be written, that's another story.

The thought of Michael and Carson cooking up from in vitro monstrosity and having Kanan 'implant' it seems perfectly sci-fi to me. And it was really Michael who took the Athosians? And Michael who left that guy behind posing as a Genii in 'Missing'? Mmm. Who needs the technology of the Asurans when you've got the biology of Trip... I mean, Michael?

No...not Kanan. Go back to Vengeance. I think Kanan if he doesn't show up...could be an implanted memory by Michael. He was able to control her mind once and [insert deity] knows what he could cook up again; although she has claimed that if she doesn't allow it they can't take control. Michael is an all together different story for her though.

Kanan if he does show up is just a guy she could have been macking with, but I think she was developing a relationship with him. Her feelings are wishy washy otherwise; if one considers Sunday. At this point, I'm thinking Kanan might fall in the way of the "brother" character that the reading for Teyla had. Something they were going to work with which might not pan out.

I can't see how Michael would give it to Kanan to inseminate...this was done before.


As for the Athosians, it could have been Michael. You can't forget the fact the guy has a decent army of bug babies and in the end of Vengeance...WEir in her doom and gloom glory informed us that Michael had locations in other planets. This is class act. I could so see him using the Athosian people as test bunnies to further evovle his creatures...whatever those things were.

The guy wasn't posing as a Genii, he was posing as anything possible. One minute he claimed to be Athosian, then from a neighboring planet, then Genii. As for being invovled with Michael, one doesn't know. But I wouldn't put it past him...I could so see the writers recapping a missing scene in Missing where that guy checks to see if Teyla really got pregnant and then notified Michael.

It was at the end of that ep we know Teyla is having a demonoid on the way.

cabouse18
February 14th, 2008, 01:56 PM
No...not Kanan. Go back to Vengeance. I think Kanan if he doesn't show up...could be an implanted memory by Michael. He was able to control her mind once and [insert deity] knows what he could cook up again; although she has claimed that if she doesn't allow it they can't take control. Michael is an all together different story for her though.

Kanan if he does show up is just a guy she could have been macking with, but I think she was developing a relationship with him. Her feelings are wishy washy otherwise; if one considers Sunday. At this point, I'm thinking Kanan might fall in the way of the "brother" character that the reading for Teyla had. Something they were going to work with which might not pan out.

I can't see how Michael would give it to Kanan to inseminate...this was done before.


As for the Athosians, it could have been Michael. You can't forget the fact the guy has a decent army of bug babies and in the end of Vengeance...WEir in her doom and gloom glory informed us that Michael had locations in other planets. This is class act. I could so see him using the Athosian people as test bunnies to further evovle his creatures...whatever those things were.

The guy wasn't posing as a Genii, he was posing as anything possible. One minute he claimed to be Athosian, then from a neighboring planet, then Genii. As for being invovled with Michael, one doesn't know. But I wouldn't put it past him...I could so see the writers recapping a missing scene in Missing where that guy checks to see if Teyla really got pregnant and then notified Michael.

It was at the end of that ep we know Teyla is having a demonoid on the way.

Well we know that Kanan *IS* going to show up....what side he is on is a whole nother story.....I still feel, even though he is real, is a red herring/tool of Michael's. What Teyla believes to be true about her and Kanan is either a false memory or she and Kanan were in fact together but he is NOT the father of the baby and was just doing what Michael told him to do.

ciannwn
February 14th, 2008, 03:14 PM
There are two people Michael hates the most on the Atlantis Ex. Which makes these two people he wants to see punished for what they did to him. He would basically see all of the Ex dead, but he would gain pleasure out of causing an unmeasured amount of pain and psychological trauma to Teyla and Carson. They were the ones closest to him, and Teyla was the fake friend.

I wouldn't disagree with that.


Teyla basically was involved in Michael's "rape" twice. At first she was against it and refrained from it, then he went back to the wraith and he was at that point her enemy. If we go to No Man's Land, it was Teyla who ordered him injected again even though she was under direct order to do so. The problem is Michael saw Teyla.

I'm afraid I can't see Michael as a 100% squeaky clean character after the story 'Michael' although there's no denying that the expedition treated him abominably. From 'No Man's Land' when he's talking to the hive Queen.

MICHAEL: You should have told me. (The Queen looks at him enquiringly.) That we were going to betray the Atlanteans.

HIVE QUEEN: Are you feeling sympathy for them?

MICHAEL: No. But I don't understand why I wasn't told. I told you of their plan because I believed it was a viable way ...

This suggests that Michael thought turning other Wraith into humans was a good idea even though he was furious when it happened to him. If he'd a warped mentality back then it could explain why he went the way he did.


If this "thing" is a of wraith descent or even a creature superior to the wraith...especially considering a Michael involvement.

If you were doing tests, tests that really don't touch on neo-natal wraith genes and their functions, but just the blood test of the mother and a sonogram of a picture of a "human-like" fetus it's unclear whether they would be able to tell any difference or pick up any differences and end up terminating the kid. I see Michael betting on this.

Unless it turns out that Teyla's mistaken, she was able to sense that her child is a boy. This indicates that she's in tune with it now and the connection would have got stronger the more the baby's brain developed. If the child is actually some kind of 'super Wraith' they'd have to explain why she never started to sense something a little odd about it and ask Keller to check it out.

Then there's the Queen in 'Spoils Of War' -

HIVE QUEEN: Of course. Now I feel it. You're not working alone. There is another life {life} inside you {inside you}, helping you.

HIVE QUEEN: You cannot resist me for long. Combined, your two minds are very powerful, but all I need to do is distract you for a single moment {moment} to get to the other.

Did Teyla keep that information to herself because she thought it was normal for a three month old fetus to have a brain developed enough to help her fight a Wraith Queen? If she included the information for a mission report didn't anybody wonder how the unborn child was such an asset? After all, how much of a mind does a three month old fetus have?

If 'super Wraith' baby really is the plot, these are the kind of things I'd want explained convincingly. What stops Teyla from sensing 'Wraith' so Michael could feel confident about sending her back to Atlantis because he knew his experiment would never be detected? On the other hand, if baby turns out to be normal I'd still like a convincing explanation for the 'Spoils Of War' bit.

cabouse18
February 14th, 2008, 05:26 PM
If 'super Wraith' baby really is the plot, these are the kind of things I'd want explained convincingly. What stops Teyla from sensing 'Wraith' so Michael could feel confident about sending her back to Atlantis because he knew his experiment would never be detected? On the other hand, if baby turns out to be normal I'd still like a convincing explanation for the 'Spoils Of War' bit.

I agree with that.....for the baby to have that much ability at such an early stage of development seems mighty suspcious to me. Not only that bit but her ability to control the Wraith in general was much stronger....if the baby has her Wraith gene (which it will from genetics) wouldn't be safe to say that it would be weaker b/c it is more removed from the original bloddline?? So why were her abilities increased? Kanan, as far as we know doesn't have the gene, so her abilities should have been only slightly stronger....not wonder woman strong where she could take on a Wraith Queen and control the ship with ease.

Something smellls funny ;)

ciannwn
February 14th, 2008, 06:00 PM
I agree with that.....for the baby to have that much ability at such an early stage of development seems mighty suspcious to me.

So if the baby has such a powerful mind from being some kind of 'super Wraith' or whatever, why can't Teyla sense it's more Wraithlike than it should be? After all, her initial ability from the Wraith gene was sensing when Wraith are around. All she's noticed so far is that it's a boy.


So why were her abilities increased? Kanan, as far as we know doesn't have the gene, so her abilities should have been only slightly stronger....not wonder woman strong where she could take on a Wraith Queen and control the ship with ease.

There's still a possibility that the 'two minds together' was a plot device to 'explain' how Teyla managed to take control in the way she did. There was no indication that the Queen was suprised when she tracked down the 'other mind'. You'd think that she would have felt some kind of astonishment on discovering that a human was carrying a Wraith child unless impregnating human women with Wraith babies is a common occurrence.

Demonique
February 15th, 2008, 02:41 AM
And is Keelac (Athosion dude i think thats his name) really the father?


I hope not



Wraithy baby or one that could kick Butt just like Teyla ?


Wraithy baby, real SciFi babies tend to be boring (except for Cally and Chief Tyrol's sprog in BSG, but that's b/c it's hardly ever seen!)

reddevil18
February 15th, 2008, 03:44 AM
Wraithy baby, real SciFi babies tend to be boring (except for Cally and Chief Tyrol's sprog in BSG, but that's b/c it's hardly ever seen!) That kid's hardly normal, now is he?

vaberella
February 15th, 2008, 04:19 AM
Well we know that Kanan *IS* going to show up....what side he is on is a whole nother story.....I still feel, even though he is real, is a red herring/tool of Michael's. What Teyla believes to be true about her and Kanan is either a false memory or she and Kanan were in fact together but he is NOT the father of the baby and was just doing what Michael told him to do.

I never denied that Kanan wouldn't show up. However, I did mention I had my doubts. Many a character, or story guest was said to be such and such and found to be changed or dropped along the way. I say this, with what I believe is good reason. We have not heard "hide or hair" of Kanan in S4, as of yet. Except of what was said in Missing, and the ever present fact the Atlantis Ex assumes he's the father of Teyla's spawn.

I wonder why? When Weir was getting a love "whatever he was", you couldn't run past which ep he would be in, because it was such big news and everyone was talking about it---yet not even 3 minutes of screen time. This has not been the case with Kanan who's "believed" to be the father of this parasitic entity or at least a romantic pair to Teyla.

Plus, he was said to be in S4, and the season being near over, and we're all fully aware that toward the end of the season Teyla is not a focal player...so where is he. Then people are saying S5. He was confirmed from my knowledge of JM's blog and RL's interviews to be in S4...season is almost out, Teyla is almost out because of RL's condition at the time of filming, and yet nothing. This is why I put an *IF*...you can follow your *IS* but minds have been known to change and story has been known to change and get readapted.

As for the rest of the comments on the Michael/Kanan relationship, I've said all that before...so...meh.

Kanan in my case has become an I'll see it to believe it (not disagreeing he'll be around)...this is reminding me of the start date to ISWAK II.


I wouldn't disagree with that.
Why? Just want your perspective, since the end of S2 and S3 would rather agree with my statement. I only mention this, not because you disagree with me, but because it's established in canon.


I'm afraid I can't see Michael as a 100% squeaky clean character after the story 'Michael' although there's no denying that the expedition treated him abominably. From 'No Man's Land' when he's talking to the hive Queen.

MICHAEL: You should have told me. (The Queen looks at him enquiringly.) That we were going to betray the Atlanteans.

HIVE QUEEN: Are you feeling sympathy for them?

MICHAEL: No. But I don't understand why I wasn't told. I told you of their plan because I believed it was a viable way ...

This suggests that Michael thought turning other Wraith into humans was a good idea even though he was furious when it happened to him. If he'd a warped mentality back then it could explain why he went the way he did.

I don't get your meaning. To quote Teyla and Ronon..."He's a/He is Wraith!!' What would make you think he was squeaky clean? I really hope my post didn't imply that I thought he was squeaky clean, because I find that far from the truth. The man ate people and wouldn't even think of wasting time normally with his food...what a waste of a good dinner---talking to it?! Would you renegotiate with a lobster? Hmmm, that question leads me to ponder being turned into a lobster to understand those lobster feelings. Sadly, I'm allergic to shellfish ~sigh~...so that's besides the point.

In any event, that wasn't my claim if it came across that way. I just find that Michael developed a deeper feelings of hate. I found that Michael seemed like he wanted some sort of connection with Teyla again, especially when we look at Allies and she shot him to hell. He was fully wraith at the time. And Misbegotten/NML really pushed him over the edge----Carson and Teyla specifically. Teyla using force to inject him of the retro-virus and Carson being the creator. I see Michael being pathetic after Michael. He's like one of those damned characters, if you will. He's hated by humans because he's wraith, but hated by the wraith because he was associated with his humanity and the scent remains. Now you have him alone and seeing both parties as a threat as well as humans. I think he has enough hatred especially towards those two to do anything.


Unless it turns out that Teyla's mistaken, she was able to sense that her child is a boy. This indicates that she's in tune with it now and the connection would have got stronger the more the baby's brain developed. If the child is actually some kind of 'super Wraith' they'd have to explain why she never started to sense something a little odd about it and ask Keller to check it out.

HIVE QUEEN: Of course. Now I feel it. You're not working alone. There is another life {life} inside you {inside you}, helping you.

HIVE QUEEN: You cannot resist me for long. Combined, your two minds are very powerful, but all I need to do is distract you for a single moment {moment} to get to the other.

Did Teyla keep that information to herself because she thought it was normal for a three month old fetus to have a brain developed enough to help her fight a Wraith Queen? If she included the information for a mission report didn't anybody wonder how the unborn child was such an asset? After all, how much of a mind does a three month old fetus have?

You're forgetting something about Teyla's make up in your assessment, which is one I wouldn't disagree with except for what's been put in place since The Gift. If Teyla doesn't open her mind to it, she wouldn't know----this was established. She would have to have her mind open to the wraith in order to see into it's mind---in the case of something within her own body that's an even bigger question, but still plays a part. Depending on the extent of the brain activity, if Teyla has learned to close her mind off from Wraith talking and communicating---especially because of her past experiences, then I wouldn't see her being aware that the child was a wraith. But when it was called upon for her to use her ability she tapped into that connection and realized what this thing was... and might be and then using both it's strength and her own to take out the Queen.

Lastly, if we're speaking about the parasite after SoW (was it?) then you'd can put it down to people believing that the baby was in affect inhereting Teyla's own ability. Also, considering Teyla's abilities have been magnifying and getting stronger than her ancestors let's say...they would just play it to that and not as though this creature was anything other than human with extra abilities like it's mother. This is especially considering we know absolutely NOTHING about her father and if had such abilities and his background. That would be most important in understanding some aspects of Teyla's pregnancy and would be able to push more doubt in the idea of Michael and more allowance in Kanan(typical human until otherwise said).



If 'super Wraith' baby really is the plot, these are the kind of things I'd want explained convincingly. What stops Teyla from sensing 'Wraith' so Michael could feel confident about sending her back to Atlantis because he knew his experiment would never be detected? On the other hand, if baby turns out to be normal I'd still like a convincing explanation for the 'Spoils Of War' bit.

Easy enough. It was said in "The Gift"...they cannot take control of her body unless she doesn't give them the ability of entering her mind. In the case of the parasite it was said in "Instinct" that the wraith parasite's start off as humanoid. As a humanoid and being of a human mother, I find it a bit harder to see Teyla finding something off about the parasite, to think it was a threat---especially if she was mentally manipulated. Plus, this is her first pregnancy (or so I would imagine), besides what happened in SoW to let her know something was different, I don't see how she'd be aware of what to expect and feel while pregnant.I believed I mentioned this in a previous post.

Michael would be fully aware of this, since he was once a child himself.

Further more, you seem to assume that Atlantis has all things advanced, Carson complained about this being a problem in "The Gift" again he complained to an extent about this in "Instinct" again there were problems in developing and advancing his retrovirus because of equipment and his lack of understanding FULLY of Wraith phsysiology, we have Michael, Misbegotten, and NML. Look at NML, the retro-virus didn't even work on the Wraith Queen...because Beckett didn't have the full knowledge and grasp of Wraith DNA--especially the Queen's. Plus, if he did, it wouldn't be something that had to be administered as seen in NML, it would be a one-off (human automatically and no injections needed). But NML proved otherwise.

You're giving the Atlantis Ex far too much credit, advanced equipment with detailed functionality and understanding of alien races, extensive knowledge of Wraith physiology and biology, and ability which they have already said they do not have, especially in the case of the Wraith. They wouldn't have been so keen on wraith physiology if they knew everything and could find everything easily. Hence the reason Michael, and this is if Michael did it, would be fully aware that if his test went through and let's say with added mind manipulation went through (given if we believe Kanan to be a work of Michael(or not even that)) then it would slip through the cracks.

I'm thinking you're seeing things far more absolute and not considering the many factors and definitely much of the information in the past which would give incite, correct or not on what may be taking place in Teyla's situation. Everything in Teyla's case her parasite are very relative.

The parasite being human is impossible---well human to the extent of normal humans like Halling (let's say). However, the parasite has basically been labeled by JM in his blog as far from human, in the traditionnel sense, so it's "normal".

Professor Chaos
February 15th, 2008, 04:27 AM
The funny thing is, everyone is secretly hoping reddevil18 is right and the baby just dies.;) Does anybody actually want to see the whole diaper changing, feeding, watching after, ect last more than 2 episodes? Rapid aging would work as well. Aging to 80+ years old and dieing soon after, that is.

vaberella
February 15th, 2008, 04:35 AM
The funny thing is, everyone is secretly hoping reddevil18 is right and the baby just dies.;) Does anybody actually want to see the whole diaper changing, feeding, watching after, ect last more than 2 episodes? Rapid aging would work as well. Aging to 80+ years old and dieing soon after, that is.

From the moment I heard that RL would be pregnant on the show, and for good reason, I have wanted to parasite to die. I have not even made it secret. The S4 thread is littered with posts of how I want this thing dead. I can't sit through episodes of baby changing. Ordering diapers and food from the Daedy...[insert deity] Caldwell would feel awkward. Plus, I'm one of those people, that if I see Teyla active on missions and not around the kid especially during so early in it's developmental stage---I'd think she's an unfit mother and think far less of her. If she gives up the demonoid, I find that even worse of her and I'd be disgusted.

She's in a bad situation if this kid create. I think many of us are hoping it's not human because that way we feel disconnected and hope or maybe not hope but think if it's not human then Teyla as ourselves would feel separated from it when it dies. Another thing, I think a parasites take up a lot of attention. I just don't see the show viable if they don't mention this beast at least once or twice in every other ep. Then that would just be weak.

ciannwn
February 15th, 2008, 06:55 AM
Why? Just want your perspective, since the end of S2 and S3 would rather agree with my statement. I only mention this, not because you disagree with me, but because it's established in canon.

I said I didn't disagree with you here because Beckett and Teyla would be the people he hates most amongst the Atlantis expedition personnel for the reasons you gave.


I don't get your meaning. To quote Teyla and Ronon..."He's a/He is Wraith!!'

The man ate people and wouldn't even think of wasting time normally with his food...what a waste of a good dinner---talking to it?!

After Michael says that he thought the expedition's plan was a viable way the Queen replies with -

HIVE QUEEN (interrupting): You're only alive because you still may prove to be useful. But I fear, Michael, that the lingering stench of what they have transformed you into will never fade.

I'm just trying to figure out what the scriptwriter intended this conversation to mean. Michael thought that turning other Wraith into humans was a good idea and was astonished when he learned that the Queen had kept the real plan from him. Why didn't the Queen think it a good idea too seeing as having a biological weapon to use in the Wraith civil war would have given her a very powerful advantage over enemy factions? Surely it would have been a less risky course of action than heading off into an unknown galaxy with two hive ships.

What, exactly, was she supposed to be rejecting him for? Was the 'lingering stench' just something to do with the fact that he'd been physically transformed into a human earlier on or was it something else? Is it possible that her reaction was intended to convey something on the lines of her finding Michael's idea offensive? Did his choice of the word 'betray' in relation to the Atlanteans make her regard him as having a warped mentality (by Wraith standards)? Would she have felt differently about him if he'd only reported what the Atlantis expedition was doing without suggesting that she and her hives go along with it? We'll never know now because she's dead and unable to go into details in future stories.


but hated by the wraith because he was associated with his humanity and the scent remains.

What does Michael mean when he said the other hive sensed the humanity in him? We'll probably never know because it's likely to be just a 'plot device explanation' to account for him having left the other hive ship in order to breed his super bugs.


You're forgetting something about Teyla's make up in your assessment, which is one I wouldn't disagree with except for what's been put in place since The Gift. If Teyla doesn't open her mind to it, she wouldn't know----this was established. She would have to have her mind open to the wraith in order to see into it's mind---in the case of something within her own body that's an even bigger question, but still plays a part.

'The Gift' also establishes what Teyla's abilities were before she learned how to open her mind to Wraith in order to set up a telepathic communication.

HEIGHTMEYER: Have you always been able to sense the Wraith?

TEYLA: Yes, since I can remember.

and

TEYLA: It feels like a deep cold that comes from within. I first felt it when I was a girl. I could not breathe, and I did not know why, and then we heard the Darts.

and

TEYLA: Charan, do you know why I can sense the Wraith coming?

CHARAN: You were born to it. There have been a few in every generation.

Then there's 'Submersion.

TEYLA: I am sensing a Wraith presence nearby.

SHEPPARD: Are you sure? We’re pretty deep underwater.

TEYLA: I cannot be certain, but I believe it is onboard the drilling platform.

When the others suggest other explanations for her experience she says -

TEYLA: There is a way for me to be sure. If I can reach out with my mind and establish a link ...

TEYLA: If there is no Wraith, then there will be no mind for me to link with, and therefore no risk. But if there is a Wraith nearby ...

This tells us that Teyla doesn't have to open her mind to Wraith in order to sense their presence nearby.


Depending on the extent of the brain activity, if Teyla has learned to close her mind off from Wraith talking and communicating---especially because of her past experiences, then I wouldn't see her being aware that the child was a wraith.

If her child really is a Wraith, why isn't her ordinary, everyday Wraith sensing ability operating here if she's enough in tune with it to know it's gender? She could tell that the 'Submersion' Queen was on the drilling station even though she had her mind closed off from Wraith talking and communicating. She couldn't get any closer to a Wraith than actually carrying one as a pregnancy.


In the case of the parasite it was said in "Instinct" that the parasite's start off as humanoid. As a humanoid and being of a human mother, I find it a bit harder to see Teyla finding something off about the parasite, to think it was a threat---especially if she was mentally manipulated. I believed I mentioned this in a previous post.

We only see a glimpse of infant Ellia in 'Instinct' but it's enough to suggest that she looked like a Wraith and not a human child. Zaddik was able to tell she was a young female Wraith as well when he found her so they definitely don't start off as human.

ZADDIK: But, when I found a young female lying unconscious some distance from the crash, I couldn't bring myself to hurt her.

Wraith children start off eating normal food until they reach a certain age, though. Does this mean that they wouldn't come across as Wraith to anyone who has the Wraith gene which gives them Wraith sensing abilities? This sort of explanation would be less baffling for me than Michael being able to manipulate Teyla into not sensing her own child without losing her ability to sense other Wraith. As she's been around a number of Wraith since she got pregnant she'd have noticed if her ordinary, everyday ability had gone.

Back to 'Spoils Of War'. If Wraith have babies around you'd think that a Queen would be able to pick up 'Wraith signals' from them even if they were too subtle for someone like Teyla who is a human with a bit of Wraith DNA.


Further more, you seem to assume that Atlantis has all things advanced, Carson complained about this being a problem in "The Gift" again he complained to an extent about this in "Instinct" again there were problems in developing and advancing his retrovirus because of equipment and his lack of understanding FULLY of Wraith phsysiology,

The equipment in Atlantis was advanced enough for him to find that Teyla has Wraith DNA in her genetic makeup. Beckett must have left plenty of records concerning Wraith DNA too because there'd have been a number of bodies for him to do research on after 'The Seige'.


Look at NML, the retro-virus didn't even work on the Wraith Queens...because Beckett didn't have the full knowledge and grasp of Wraith DNA--especially the Queens. Plus, if he did, it wouldn't be something that had to be administered it would be a one-off. But NML proved otherwise.

The retrovirus worked on male Wraith, though, which suggests that he developed it by using male bodies in his research. It's likely that Ellia's body was brought back to Atlantis for him to study as well. If so, it would hardly have given him an accurate knowledge of Queens because Ellia had been in the process of turning into a bug monster due to the effects of Beckett's prototype retrovirus.


You're giving the Atlantis Ex far too much credit and ability which they have already said they do not have, especially in the case of the Wraith.

The Atlantis medical staff would know of real life tests for examining an unborn baby's DNA makeup. If Teyla suspected anything was odd with her baby and told Keller it would be possible to check the baby's DNA against Teyla's DNA (this information should still be in her medical records). If there were any suspicions that the offspring was very Wraithy there'd be all of Beckett's Wraith DNA records to check it against as well.


The parasite being human is impossible---well human to the extent of normal humans like Halling (let's say). However, the parasite has basically been labeled by JM in his blog as far from human, in the traditionnel sense, so it's "normal".

Do you have the actual quote for this? I'd like to see it and puzzle over what he means but can't face the thought of looking through his blog in order to find it. Trying to find SGA references amongst all the other stuff just makes me go cross eyed or start thinking of the Wraith from 'Condemned'. :)

I'm not saying that it's impossible for the baby to turn out to be a Wraith. I'm just pointing out the things I'd want a halfway convincing explanation for so I didn't end up watching such a story and thinking "What a load of old rhubarb". :)

ciannwn
February 15th, 2008, 11:51 AM
An afterthought in a new post to avoid the character limit.

What a number of people in these forums find odd.

1: When Teyla's first on the hive ship.

(Just then most of the lights on the Bridge go out and a spotlight illuminates the central console where Teyla has just put her hands onto the controls. The boys turn and stare at her as she looks up in surprise.)

McKAY: How did you do that?

TEYLA (nervously): I don't know. My abilities appear to be stronger than before.

McKAY: She's not kidding! (He looks at the wallscreen ahead of them as Wraith writing spools down it.) According to this, navigation, propulsion and communications are online.

SHEPPARD: Teyla?

TEYLA: I cannot explain it. The moment I connected with the ship, everything became available to me. I can feel the various systems at my disposal.


It turns out she can even fly it effortlessly as well.

2: Teyla is able to take over the mind of a Wraith Queen with the help of a three month old fetus.

What do Sheppard, Rodney, Dex, Lorne and Carter (who would have had the mission reports to read) suspect? Nothing. All that Sheppard wants to know is if Teyla and baby are OK after she's returned from a checkup in the Infirmary. If 1 and 2 are supposed to be big clues that baby is other than he seems how have the leading characters managed to miss them? Rodney and Carter are meant to be two of Earth's top brains, Sheppard's a member of Mensa, Ronon is nearly paranoid about all things Wraith and isn't Lorne something to do with security? Michael couldn't have got at them all and conditioned them not to notice anything odd.

cabouse18
February 15th, 2008, 12:33 PM
An afterthought in a new post to avoid the character limit.

What a number of people in these forums find odd.

1: When Teyla's first on the hive ship.

(Just then most of the lights on the Bridge go out and a spotlight illuminates the central console where Teyla has just put her hands onto the controls. The boys turn and stare at her as she looks up in surprise.)

McKAY: How did you do that?

TEYLA (nervously): I don't know. My abilities appear to be stronger than before.

McKAY: She's not kidding! (He looks at the wallscreen ahead of them as Wraith writing spools down it.) According to this, navigation, propulsion and communications are online.

SHEPPARD: Teyla?

TEYLA: I cannot explain it. The moment I connected with the ship, everything became available to me. I can feel the various systems at my disposal.


It turns out she can even fly it effortlessly as well.

2: Teyla is able to take over the mind of a Wraith Queen with the help of a three month old fetus.

What do Sheppard, Rodney, Dex, Lorne and Carter (who would have had the mission reports to read) suspect? Nothing. All that Sheppard wants to know is if Teyla and baby are OK after she's returned from a checkup in the Infirmary. If 1 and 2 are supposed to be big clues that baby is other than he seems how have the leading characters managed to miss them? Rodney and Carter are meant to be two of Earth's top brains, Sheppard's a member of Mensa, Ronon is nearly paranoid about all things Wraith and isn't Lorne something to do with security? Michael couldn't have got at them all and conditioned them not to notice anything odd.

I second that!! The fact that they *aren't* questioning all this leads me to believe we are right in our assumptions.....Talk about a blackhole in the writing especially if it turns out that since no one suspected anything, like they normally do, the kid turns out to Satan in disguise. What are they all goo goo gaa gaa b/c she is preggers?? C'mon something is going on and apparently they are all blind to it.:rolleyes:

ciannwn
February 15th, 2008, 01:04 PM
I second that!! The fact that they *aren't* questioning all this leads me to believe we are right in our assumptions.....

Maybe it's all due to one of the Stargate universe laws - intelligent beings of any species have a fit of dumbness whenever the plot requires it. :D


Talk about a blackhole in the writing especially if it turns out that since no one suspected anything, like they normally do, the kid turns out to Satan in disguise.

One would expect Carter to read the mission reports, think "That's an amazing three month old fetus" and immediately remember Adria. Or does any conditioning that Teyla might have make her forget to report things like baby helps her to control Wraith Queens?


What are they all goo goo gaa gaa b/c she is preggers?? C'mon something is going on and apparently they are all blind to it.:rolleyes:

I'm still wondering why Teyla doesn't feel that deep cold from within if baby's a Wraith. It would just be her normal, everyday Wraith detecting talent at work and she had this long before Heightmeyer helped her to connect with the Wraith network in 'The Gift'. Has Teyla been conditioned to ignore any Wraithness from her baby?

vaberella
February 15th, 2008, 01:10 PM
~sigh~ :) Part I


I said I didn't disagree with you here because Beckett and Teyla would be the people he hates most amongst the Atlantis expedition personnel for the reasons you gave.

Sorry.** :)

**Note to VB: Reread statements slower and register what is read.




After Michael says that he thought the expedition's plan was a viable way the Queen replies with -

HIVE QUEEN (interrupting): You're only alive because you still may prove to be useful. But I fear, Michael, that the lingering stench of what they have transformed you into will never fade.

I'm just trying to figure out what the scriptwriter intended this conversation to mean. Michael thought that turning other Wraith into humans was a good idea and was astonished when he learned that the Queen had kept the real plan from him. Why didn't the Queen think it a good idea too seeing as having a biological weapon to use in the Wraith civil war would have given her a very powerful advantage over enemy factions? Surely it would have been a less risky course of action than heading off into an unknown galaxy with two hive ships.

My reasoning of the situation had to deal with the fact that the Queen was extremely intelligent. It's wicked that SGA has extremely intelligent enemies, hence the reason it boggles my mind that they actually win so many battles considering how I find them idiotic more times than not. We'll be taking an Economic look at this through long run and short run initiatives and with a bit of strategic planning.

Look at it as if you're a leader and the immediate short run and the situation there, and then the definite long run. My mind is moving faster than my fingers in this so I'll try to target specific points, and not all I want to target with what I'm about to say.

Short Run:
1. She starts using the retro-virus: She was aware and this was discussed in Allies that she's the only ship against many of them who would start attacking...sheilds or not. The Wraith are vast in number, this was established since The Rising. Third point, the wraith are mentally connected (someone might let something slip)...meaning if one knows they can spread it amongs their own...established in The Rising II, again in The Siege III, and re-established in Allies. Add all those scenarios together...

They start using retro-virus gas on nests of Wraith or other ships to take out their own. Eventually they will be found out by other Wraith and taken out. Again they would be one ship against a vast many of other Wraith in the Pegasus Galaxy and eventually they would be taken out. There is no if, ands or buts about it. And it would be sooner rather than later.

Middle Run:
1. Well in this case, let's say she did one and wasn't taken out but didn't go to Earth, as we'll picture in Long Run. Eventually there will be wraith scientist who will be able to create an immunity against the the retro-virus. Admittedly this can also be long run. If not that, we already know that the retro virus doesn't knock keep them human indefinitely----that being said---she'd still eventually be taken out.

Long Run:
1. Let's say they weren't taken out, and they eventually minimize their food supply to the same problems they had before since the food supply is not fully sustainable...going back to Economics 101, food supply is a limited resource, a scarcity. You would like Earth's location---with the new rich feeding ground, vast array of planets full of people as established from SG1 not counting Earth itself. You would be able to live indefinitely and even if you are able to allocate better amongst your rule and take out any other threats...well then you're in a winner takes all scenario. She'd have dominion and most likely her people would eventually take over. Of course that area would run out of food, but currently it's unlimited and I believe in Rising I or II that the Milky Way Galaxy is much larger than the Peggy. If I was Queen, that'd be uber sweet. I'd have food for a long while.

I do believe that Michael may have had some feelings towards humans that were more amicable, until of course NML. Much the way I felt that the IOA and the military probably felt about Weir in First Strike, the Queen probably sensed or felt because of his "human" experience that he was compromised and not to be trusted. I see nothing wrong with that because that is a realistic scenario considering the situation. He's basically disgusting and disturbing to have around, I wouldn't trust him with any alternative plan...he's just proving to be useful for his knowledge. Michael is less so, I'm not surprised he's not Queen. The Queen however was thinking ahead. Bloody great leader.


What, exactly, was she supposed to be rejecting him for? Was the 'lingering stench' just something to do with the fact that he'd been physically transformed into a human earlier on or was it something else? Is it possible that her reaction was intended to convey something on the lines of her finding Michael's idea offensive? Did his choice of the word 'betray' in relation to the Atlanteans make her regard him as having a warped mentality (by Wraith standards)? Would she have felt differently about him if he'd only reported what the Atlantis expedition was doing without suggesting that she and her hives go along with it? We'll never know now because she's dead and unable to go into details in future stories.

I agree we won't have specific answers, we'd have to speculate based on the information we were given. Normally, speculating can get one into trouble and I guess a few of my answers may change when we learn about other Queens and other hives. But for this one and since it's in the past, I'm looking at it from the time of Allies to NML. I'll target each question independently.

1. I figured she was rejecting him mainly because he was an unknown entity. She's not sure how much of an affect that the transformation would have on him, rightfully, especially considering that he still smelled of human.

2. I figure it's to do with the fact that he was changed into a human primarily although other things play a factor, such as him requesting a meeting with Teyla. In any event, I'll go by the fact that he was changed as something important...he smells as the food they eat and yet he's wraith. I don't know about you but I'd find it a bit disconcerting. For example, my uncle can't stand watching animals on tv...those computer generated ones speaking like humans, he finds it utterly disconcerting. I don't blame him, I had the same problem with The Chronicles of Narnia when I thought about it. Kind of like my food is talking. Now picture you seeing a wraith but smelling your food. It's a very weird feeling.

3. It could have been her finding Michael's idea offensive. But I find it doubtful we were aware since S1 that the Wraith weren't all buddy/buddy. And looking back at Allies, she ate one of her own; but they've been known to do such a thing.

4. Maybe so, but I think she already thought him warped just because he maintained the smell and probably the Teyla thing in Allies. I would.

5. Don't know, but the retro-virus would prove to be useful. On the way to Earth, she'd have her lead scientists on a counter to for her hive, she'd need an army to enact her wishes so I'm sure she needed the sample to run her own tests. I would have done that.



What does Michael mean when he said the other hive sensed the humanity in him? We'll probably never know because it's likely to be just a 'plot device explanation' to account for him having left the other hive ship in order to breed his super bugs.
I can't agree it being plot device. There was enough in the relating episodes to pick up on what my have been going on.

You just mentioned that the Queen said you maintained the stench. I figured she's right. They do have a strong sense of smell. Like that moment in The Hive, I always figured that when that Wraith guy was looking at Teyla he was sniffing more the drug off of her and her body. The wraith enzyme.

In any event, he lived amongst humans and periodically drugged and we'll never know how long...lets say 3 months or 6 months for him to do the amount of reconning he was donig. You don't think he'd retain this sort of humanistic essence? That's a biological shift, he'll never be what he was before.

vaberella
February 15th, 2008, 01:11 PM
Part 2


'The Gift' also establishes what Teyla's abilities were before she learned how to open her mind to Wraith in order to set up a telepathic communication.

HEIGHTMEYER: Have you always been able to sense the Wraith?

TEYLA: Yes, since I can remember.

and

TEYLA: It feels like a deep cold that comes from within. I first felt it when I was a girl. I could not breathe, and I did not know why, and then we heard the Darts.

and

TEYLA: Charan, do you know why I can sense the Wraith coming?

CHARAN: You were born to it. There have been a few in every generation.

Then there's 'Submersion.

TEYLA: I am sensing a Wraith presence nearby.

SHEPPARD: Are you sure? We’re pretty deep underwater.

TEYLA: I cannot be certain, but I believe it is onboard the drilling platform.

When the others suggest other explanations for her experience she says -

TEYLA: There is a way for me to be sure. If I can reach out with my mind and establish a link ...

TEYLA: If there is no Wraith, then there will be no mind for me to link with, and therefore no risk. But if there is a Wraith nearby ...

This tells us that Teyla doesn't have to open her mind to Wraith in order to sense their presence nearby.

I never said she has to open her mind in order to sense the Wraith. I said she had to open her mind in order for the Wraith to take control and when we're looking as SoW we can say she also needed to open her mind to that extent to be touched by her spawn in order for her to use it's own power and abilities to take out the Queen.

You could have also added a quote from Instinct, where she says much of the same--and adds a bit of insight into why she may not sense what the spawn may be, if the parasite isn't human. Secondly, the Wraith aren't, as we know from Instinct, fully Wraith as a neonate and through early childhood years. They are humanoid and have human functions. I wonder if the children necessarily exhibit wraith qualities that would allow her to sense them. Remember back in Instinct, she even said that Ellia was something different than the "normal wraith" but she was sure there is definitely one Wraith out there.

I love Instinct because you learn alot about the Wraith and Teyla's abilities. Epiphany also has it's own uses although it does contradict Hide and Seek, but it could be distance...but then that doesn't work. In any event Instinct is great.


SHEPPARD: What about you? Are you sensing anything?

TEYLA: I am not sure.

SHEPPARD: What do you mean?

TEYLA: There is a presence here, but it is ... different.

[The way she's moving her head makes it hard to tell if she's tired, confused or trying to look like she did in “The Gift” a few seconds before the Wraith possessed her.]

TEYLA: I cannot quite explain it.


If her child really is a Wraith, why isn't her ordinary, everyday Wraith sensing ability operating here if she's enough in tune with it to know it's gender? She could tell that the 'Submersion' Queen was on the drilling station even though she had her mind closed off from Wraith talking and communicating. She couldn't get any closer to a Wraith than actually carrying one as a pregnancy.
1. Look to the above...I hope that sheds some light. And it's not the case of "operating" but as to what she senses and what they give off. I'm sure if she never knew of Michael, but what happened to him happened, she'd get a weird vibe from him as well. She senses other entities besides the Wraith, hence the reason I mentioned Epiphany...and Instinct bares huge importance and gives massive insight into Teyla's abilities, as I mentioned previously.

As for knowing the gender, I thought the kid told her. Remember she touched minds with it and was able to pull on it's strength as well---this was during the time of the mental battle with the Queen.

I'm starting to think you're making this story out to be way more complicated to understand than it already is and basically making the whole thing to be plots thrown out in left field that cannot garner any sort of scenarios. By doing that you throw out all of the canon history established. Which makes me wonder if you really pay close attention to many of the episodes that are about Teyla and in which Teyla's presence does garner attention.

2. Huh? Where are you getting your statement for question 2? We've established that she can sense the wraith. This was known since S1. I never said she needed to open up her mind to sense the Wraith the wraith. But in order for her to communicate with a Wraith she has to open up her mind to them.

As I said about the pregnancy we have no idea how wraithlike this parasite is. I already stated in the posts above that there is information to speculate on the fact the kid will probably has some Wraith attributes considering it's mother and what we saw in SoW---it's just not human. However, considering that it is in Teyla and Teyla is human (to an extent) and we don't really know much of how the Queens give birth but let's say they don't make many. The parasite is advancing much the same way most births advance. Which would say even if it has Wraith attributes---it is of a humanoid nature which cannot be dismissed.

Although you have questioned it over and over and over again. It's extremely logical that Teyla would not be aware of the parasite's wraith attributes...since I've mentioned scenario after scenario from past seasons to explain.


We only see a glimpse of infant Ellia in 'Instinct' but it's enough to suggest that she looked like a Wraith and not a human child. Zaddik was able to tell she was a young female Wraith as well when he found her so they definitely don't start off as human.

ZADDIK: But, when I found a young female lying unconscious some distance from the crash, I couldn't bring myself to hurt her.

There is so much vital information in Instinct, that you excluded. Anyway I mentioned a few things above.

As for young female, she wasn't an "infant". Infant relays in my mind up to about Toddler. Ellia was definitely 5-7 years or so from what I remember, which makes her far from infant. Plus, it also gives room to think maybe they look more and more human....like who kows maybe they don't have gils on their faces when their children, but they have weird eyes. We don't know. I know that a 1 year old doesn't look the same when it turns 2 or 3. Same goes on as a human child ages...and this can be said for Wraith as they have human attributes which have been mentioned. Not to mention, Ellia the younger looks nothing at all like Ellia the older, except for dark hair and marks on her face. But we don't if Wraith children as "infants" have those marks. Plus, this can't be used in the case of Teyla because Teyla is human more so than Wraith. That needs to be taken into consideration. Teyla IS the mother, so far as we know. The child would take something after her.


Wraith children start off eating normal food until they reach a certain age, though. Does this mean that they wouldn't come across as Wraith to anyone who has the Wraith gene which gives them Wraith sensing abilities? This sort of explanation would be less baffling for me than Michael being able to manipulate Teyla into not sensing her own child without losing her ability to sense other Wraith. As she's been around a number of Wraith since she got pregnant she'd have noticed if her ordinary, everyday ability had gone.

I've already asked that. Most likely, no they wouldn't. Look back at Instinct or even Epiphany for the hell of it,Teyla couldn't tell Ellia as Wraith. That would say enough as to how they are sensed. Plus, Michael didn't manipulate her abilities. Her abilities are limited considering she's not as powerful as you may think and that's established. Further more, the child has her DNA, so far as we know, that plays a factor. Which should actually aid you understanding where it's going and not baffle. Another point is that, we don't know what kind of parasite this is. If Michael is involved. We know from Vengeance he's been doing major tests and studies, and he's used Iratus, Wraith (being himself), and human subjects. Do you really think it's too so confusing that Michael couldn't have created something even more superior to a Wraith--as I mentioned in a post previous to this one?!

There is a lot going on here and you're making it seem very black and white and again, far more confusing and enigmatic than it actually is. I won't deny much of my statements are speculations, but I find they have a huge amount of factual presence considering what's been established in the canon history of SGA.


I'll finish the rest....a lot of questions which sort of circular since there is established fact, but I will answer the rest.

Part III on the way.

vaberella
February 15th, 2008, 01:53 PM
Part 3...and ending for the day!! :S


Back to 'Spoils Of War'. If Wraith have babies around you'd think that a Queen would be able to pick up 'Wraith signals' from them even if they were too subtle for someone like Teyla who is a human with a bit of Wraith DNA.

As I mentioned...think Michael and what I've said of his tests and what he's been doing. Further more, you don't know if she can sense wraith babies. You have no idea if Wraith babies are very humanistic in development. Which leaves much open to wonder about and confirms where the Queen's position is.

Also...go back to "The Gift"....why do you think people like Teyla were a threat. They had wraith abilities that were close to powerful and almost powerful and yet were not wraith. The Wraith would only see a human, not someone with a wraith gene. The same could be the case with this child. People like a Teyla were a threat and they were taken out. Look at what Charin said, it was rumored people like Teyla took out a group of Wraith.

I find it perfectly logical that the Wraith Queen probably wouldn't sense it's wraith. Further more, the Queen would have to enter a mind of the human in order to sense she was even pregnant and that took digging.



The equipment in Atlantis was advanced enough for him to find that Teyla has Wraith DNA in her genetic makeup. Beckett must have left plenty of records concerning Wraith DNA too because there'd have been a number of bodies for him to do research on after 'The Seige'.

You're incorrect about Beckett and the equipment. You need to rewatch the episode or read the transcript.

Transcript excerpt "The Gift":

Pt. 1: INFIRMARY. Teyla is talking with Carson.

BECKETT: I ran every test I could on all of you from the get-go. Physiologically, you and your people are the same as we are. I have no explanation for any of your special super-powers.

TEYLA: I only have one.

BECKETT: I've seen you fight, my dear.

TEYLA: I have previously traced this ability as something that is passed on through family lineage. Does that not make it biological?

BECKETT: It would seem so, but without genetic samples from everyone in your family tree, I would have little to no chance of identifying the specific characteristic that causes the anatomical response. (Teyla shakes her head, not understand him.) It'd be difficult.

TEYLA: Any chance you would have time to fly me over to the mainland?

Pt. 2: WEIR: Well, I translated the first part of the log that you brought back, and ... are you sure you don't wanna have a seat? (Teyla just looks at her. Elizabeth takes a deep breath.) The Wraith were conducting experiments on your ancestors. I-It was just one Wraith, actually, and he was doing it against the wishes of the other Wraith, which was why he was doing it in secret.

TEYLA: What was he doing?

BECKETT: I think he was trying to make their food source more compatible with their species.

TEYLA: I do not understand.

BECKETT: It was very easy to miss. In fact, I couldn't even make the kind of comparison necessary to isolate the specific strand. We needed Wraith cells, which we eventually got, (Teyla sighs and looks away) but then we need a full mapping of the genetic code contained within those cells, which wasn't even fifty percent complete ...

TEYLA: Please! (Elizabeth and Carson look at each other again.) Tell me.

BECKETT: You have some Wraith DNA in your genetic make-up.[/quote]

It's not as easy as you make it out to be. They had to look for it, and even then there is this dea of "some" and there's no way to know to what extent. The equipment is deficient at least, but gave some direction. They still don't have enough knowledge or understanding of wraith physiology to make any bold statements as to Teyla and Wraiths.

Again you have to see Beckett isn't there and he was the one doing most of the studies of the Wraith physiology and make up. Further more you need to look again at NML, if he was so aware of the Wraith and understanding it...and with the samples he had running around he should have perfected the retro-virus...to the point where they STAY human. But Beckett wasn't able to do that. And here in lies why the child might be specifically unique to make it appear unknown. Further more, Michael did recon and we can say by the time of Vengeance...Michael probably had kidnapped Carson. This is why I feel Carson might have helped Michael along, against his will.


The retrovirus worked on male Wraith, though, which suggests that he developed it by using male bodies in his research. It's likely that Ellia's body was brought back to Atlantis for him to study as well. If so, it would hardly have given him an accurate knowledge of Queens because Ellia had been in the process of turning into a bug monster due to the effects of Beckett's prototype retrovirus.
Possibly.



The Atlantis medical staff would know of real life tests for examining an unborn baby's DNA makeup. If Teyla suspected anything was odd with her baby and told Keller it would be possible to check the baby's DNA against Teyla's DNA (this information should still be in her medical records). If there were any suspicions that the offspring was very Wraithy there'd be all of Beckett's Wraith DNA records to check it against as well.
That's if she was suspicous. But she's not, possibly she assumes the parasites abilities are inherented from herself and it's human because of Kanan. And who knows, even if she was suspicious the tests run might actually say the parasite is human. And again if Michael is involved, you have no idea what kind of sperm or entity he engineered. Which can alter all you think you know and remove suspicion against Wraith. Plus as you stated...Beckett has nothing on Queens right, wraith babies would be inherently different from wraith males. They would not be the same and that has to be taken into consideration. Because we don't know what wraith neonates are like or how they are. Depending on the stage...maybe development of things are different....which needs to be taken into consideration.


Do you have the actual quote for this? I'd like to see it and puzzle over what he means but can't face the thought of looking through his blog in order to find it. Trying to find SGA references amongst all the other stuff just makes me go cross eyed or start thinking of the Wraith from 'Condemned'. :)

So I have to look for it?! ~sigh~ :S Give me some time, you've worn me down with your questions. It's either been said on his blog or interviews. Unless someone like PG15 beats me to it, I'll post either later today or earlier tomorrow morning.


I'm not saying that it's impossible for the baby to turn out to be a Wraith. I'm just pointing out the things I'd want a halfway convincing explanation for so I didn't end up watching such a story and thinking "What a load of old rhubarb". :)

I didn't think any of your points were strongly argued. I'm not saying you're wrong. The history and canon give room for a strong argument otherwise---or in the case for Michael's involvement. Again it could just be human and no Michael...but maybe not----and I'm definitely betting it's NOT human.


An afterthought in a new post to avoid the character limit.

What a number of people in these forums find odd.

1: When Teyla's first on the hive ship.

(Just then most of the lights on the Bridge go out and a spotlight illuminates the central console where Teyla has just put her hands onto the controls. The boys turn and stare at her as she looks up in surprise.)

McKAY: How did you do that?

TEYLA (nervously): I don't know. My abilities appear to be stronger than before.

McKAY: She's not kidding! (He looks at the wallscreen ahead of them as Wraith writing spools down it.) According to this, navigation, propulsion and communications are online.

SHEPPARD: Teyla?

TEYLA: I cannot explain it. The moment I connected with the ship, everything became available to me. I can feel the various systems at my disposal.


It turns out she can even fly it effortlessly as well.

2: Teyla is able to take over the mind of a Wraith Queen with the help of a three month old fetus.

What do Sheppard, Rodney, Dex, Lorne and Carter (who would have had the mission reports to read) suspect? Nothing. All that Sheppard wants to know is if Teyla and baby are OK after she's returned from a checkup in the Infirmary. If 1 and 2 are supposed to be big clues that baby is other than he seems how have the leading characters managed to miss them? Rodney and Carter are meant to be two of Earth's top brains, Sheppard's a member of Mensa, Ronon is nearly paranoid about all things Wraith and isn't Lorne something to do with security? Michael couldn't have got at them all and conditioned them not to notice anything odd.


You're really making this way too complicated. As I mentioned it's probably because the parasite's mum has strong abilities. Going back to "The Gift"---as I mentioned previously this has gone on through her lineage. There are peole out there with her "gift" and these gifted have reproduced with humans. I think for Sheppard and everyone else involved they wouldn't be surprised by what Teyla is saying, since they believe Kanan is the father and canon has stated that the kid would have her abilities as well--since the gene doesn't seem to weaken through the generations. As my other posts have mentioned we don't know about Teyla's mother or Father enough to know how Teyla's pregnancy was and what was going on then. Also, for all intents and purpose that would be something normal---or normal for her, and this goes for why security isn't too worried. I'm trying to see why this scenario is hard to grasp.

It's not about Michael conditioning everyone. It's about what canon has put in place and how the SGA ex would probably react because of the known history. This isn't so hard, it's not complicated or as complicated and conspiratorial as you make it out to be.

cabouse18
February 15th, 2008, 02:13 PM
Part 3...and ending for the day!! :S

As I mentioned...think Michael and what I've said of his tests and what he's been doing. Further more, you don't know if she can sense wraith babies. You have no idea if Wraith babies are very humanistic in development. Which leaves much open to wonder about and confirms where the Queen's position is.

Also...go back to "The Gift"....why do you think people like Teyla were a threat. They had wraith abilities that were close to powerful and almost powerful and yet were not wraith. The Wraith would only see a human, not someone with a wraith gene. The same could be the case with this child. People like a Teyla were a threat and they were taken out. Look at what Charin said, it was rumored people like Teyla took out a group of Wraith.

I find it perfectly logical that the Wraith Queen probably wouldn't sense it's wraith. Further more, the Queen would have to enter a mind of the human in order to sense she was even pregnant and that took digging.

You're incorrect about Beckett and the equipment. You need to rewatch the episode or read the transcript.

Transcript excerpt "The Gift":

Pt. 1: INFIRMARY. Teyla is talking with Carson.

BECKETT: I ran every test I could on all of you from the get-go. Physiologically, you and your people are the same as we are. I have no explanation for any of your special super-powers.

TEYLA: I only have one.

BECKETT: I've seen you fight, my dear.

TEYLA: I have previously traced this ability as something that is passed on through family lineage. Does that not make it biological?

BECKETT: It would seem so, but without genetic samples from everyone in your family tree, I would have little to no chance of identifying the specific characteristic that causes the anatomical response. (Teyla shakes her head, not understand him.) It'd be difficult.

TEYLA: Any chance you would have time to fly me over to the mainland?

Pt. 2: WEIR: Well, I translated the first part of the log that you brought back, and ... are you sure you don't wanna have a seat? (Teyla just looks at her. Elizabeth takes a deep breath.) The Wraith were conducting experiments on your ancestors. I-It was just one Wraith, actually, and he was doing it against the wishes of the other Wraith, which was why he was doing it in secret.

TEYLA: What was he doing?

BECKETT: I think he was trying to make their food source more compatible with their species.

TEYLA: I do not understand.

BECKETT: It was very easy to miss. In fact, I couldn't even make the kind of comparison necessary to isolate the specific strand. We needed Wraith cells, which we eventually got, (Teyla sighs and looks away) but then we need a full mapping of the genetic code contained within those cells, which wasn't even fifty percent complete ...

TEYLA: Please! (Elizabeth and Carson look at each other again.) Tell me.

BECKETT: You have some Wraith DNA in your genetic make-up.


It's not as easy as you make it out to be. They had to look for it, and even then there is this dea of "some" and there's no way to know to what extent. The equipment is deficient at least, but gave some direction. They still don't have enough knowledge or understanding of wraith physiology to make any bold statements as to Teyla and Wraiths.

Again you have to see Beckett isn't there and he was the one doing most of the studies of the Wraith physiology and make up. Further more you need to look again at NML, if he was so aware of the Wraith and understanding it...and with the samples he had running around he should have perfected the retro-virus...to the point where they STAY human. But Beckett wasn't able to do that. And here in lies why the child might be specifically unique to make it appear unknown. Further more, Michael did recon and we can say by the time of Vengeance...Michael probably had kidnapped Carson. This is why I feel Carson might have helped Michael along, against his will.


Possibly.



That's if she was suspicous. But she's not, possibly she assumes the parasites abilities are inherented from herself and it's human because of Kanan. And who knows, even if she was suspicious the tests run might actually say the parasite is human. And again if Michael is involved, you have no idea what kind of sperm or entity he engineered. Which can alter all you think you know and remove suspicion against Wraith. Plus as you stated...Beckett has nothing on Queens right, wraith babies would be inherently different from wraith males. They would not be the same and that has to be taken into consideration. Because we don't know what wraith neonates are like or how they are. Depending on the stage...maybe development of things are different....which needs to be taken into consideration.



So I have to look for it?! ~sigh~ :S Give me some time, you've worn me down with your questions. It's either been said on his blog or interviews. Unless someone like PG15 beats me to it, I'll post either later today or earlier tomorrow morning.



I didn't think any of your points were strongly argued. I'm not saying you're wrong. The history and canon give room for a strong argument otherwise---or in the case for Michael's involvement. Again it could just be human and no Michael...but maybe not----and I'm definitely betting it's NOT human.




You're really making this way too complicated. As I mentioned it's probably because the parasite's mum has strong abilities. Going back to "The Gift"---as I mentioned previously this has gone on through her lineage. There are peole out there with her "gift" and these gifted have reproduced with humans. I think for Sheppard and everyone else involved they wouldn't be surprised by what Teyla is saying, since they believe Kanan is the father and canon has stated that the kid would have her abilities as well--since the gene doesn't seem to weaken through the generations. As my other posts have mentioned we don't know about Teyla's mother or Father enough to know how Teyla's pregnancy was and what was going on then. Also, for all intents and purpose that would be something normal---or normal for her, and this goes for why security isn't too worried. I'm trying to see why this scenario is hard to grasp.

It's not about Michael conditioning everyone. It's about what canon has put in place and how the SGA ex would probably react because of the known history. This isn't so hard, it's not complicated or as complicated and conspiratorial as you make it out to be.


Ummm...WOW :eek: is all I have to say!! You made a lot of points and I need to go back and re read some but you definately explained every aspect of your thoughts on this....good job:)

cabouse18
February 15th, 2008, 03:46 PM
Ok you have to check out JM' s blog....there are pics up that will make you laugh....

JM Blog (http://josephmallozzi.wordpress.com/)

The baby pics are hilarious!! I mean c'mon that is just too much IMO!! They could have kept the placenta though or at least not looked soooo happy holding it!

Jumper_One
February 15th, 2008, 03:53 PM
Ok you have to check out JM' s blog....there are pics up that will make you laugh....

JM Blog (http://josephmallozzi.wordpress.com/)

The baby pics are hilarious!! I mean c'mon that is just too much IMO!! They could have kept the placenta though or at least not looked soooo happy holding it!

;)
http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee163/Jumper_One/dsc04471.jpg
http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee163/Jumper_One/dsc04473.jpg
http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee163/Jumper_One/dsc04474.jpg

cabouse18
February 15th, 2008, 04:08 PM
;)
http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee163/Jumper_One/dsc04471.jpg
http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee163/Jumper_One/dsc04473.jpg
http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee163/Jumper_One/dsc04474.jpg

:lol: LMAO....ahhh those pics kill me;)

nx01a
February 15th, 2008, 04:17 PM
Sigh. SO not looking at those pics. Placenta? Ew.

If the baby IS super-Wraithy, it IS a boy. Use the retrovirus on him and make him a semi-normal white-haired human.

I want her to keep the kid and raise him like a good Action Mom should.

PG15
February 15th, 2008, 04:29 PM
Eh, it's nothing too bad. The "placenta" is basically a few pink/purple plastic tubes in a zip-lock bag that Carl Binder's holding.

nx01a
February 15th, 2008, 04:34 PM
Still, the whole concept of 'after birth'. Ugh. :P

cabouse18
February 15th, 2008, 04:37 PM
Still, the whole concept of 'after birth'. Ugh. :P

I am not too turned off by it....just as long as we don't get a full on graphic view of it;) If anything, we will probably see the umbilical cord and that will be the extent of it cuz yeah I don't want to see the placenta!!

nx01a
February 15th, 2008, 04:40 PM
Eh, it's nothing too bad. The "placenta" is basically a few pink/purple plastic tubes in a zip-lock bag that Carl Binder's holding.
That sounds like the umbilical cord...
Checking the pic with a bit of courage, that's just the umbilical cord. The placenta's big, flat, circular and purple. Whew. I never want to see another placenta again!:mckay:

cabouse18
February 15th, 2008, 04:41 PM
That sounds like the umbilical cord...
Checking the pic with a bit of courage, that's just the umbilical cord. The placenta's big, flat, circular and purple. Whew. I never want to see another placenta again!:mckay:

:lol: I take it you have been to a birth?;)

nx01a
February 15th, 2008, 04:45 PM
I am not too turned off by it....just as long as we don't get a full on graphic view of it;) If anything, we will probably see the umbilical cord and that will be the extent of it cuz yeah I don't want to see the placenta!!
I saw a documentary on the company most tv shows and movies use for internal organs, body parts and baby props. Very nice work. They also supply medical schools because of the level of detail and authenticity, but I'm not sure if this is their work.

Speaking of detail and authenticity, I thought Keller said it was a 'boy'? :P I don't see anything there that'd, ahem, stand out :o in an ultrasound.

nx01a
February 15th, 2008, 04:47 PM
:lol: I take it you have been to a birth?;)
I said I don't wanna talk about it!!!:jack_new_anime05::P

cabouse18
February 15th, 2008, 04:48 PM
I said I don't wanna talk about it!!!:jack_new_anime05::P

ok, ok, ;) That bad huh? ok, letting it go now :p

nx01a
February 15th, 2008, 04:54 PM
ok, ok, ;) That bad huh? ok, letting it go now :p
Nah, just kidding. :P It's not so bad, just weird looking.

"That was up there? Really?!":beckett:

I'd rather just not see Teyla's, is all I'm sayin'.

cabouse18
February 15th, 2008, 04:56 PM
Nah, just kidding. :P It's not so bad, just weird looking.

"That was up there? Really?!":beckett:

I'd rather just not see Teyla's, is all I'm sayin'.

I'd rather not too!!;)

nx01a
February 15th, 2008, 04:57 PM
Some cultures actually eat the placenta. I'm SO hoping Teyla's isn't one of them. Or that Micharl doesn't give her the chance. I knew he'd be good for something.

vaberella
February 15th, 2008, 05:01 PM
;)
http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee163/Jumper_One/dsc04471.jpg
http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee163/Jumper_One/dsc04473.jpg
http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee163/Jumper_One/dsc04474.jpg

It looks like a girl to me. An ugly girl too. :S


Some cultures actually eat the placenta. I'm SO hoping Teyla's isn't one of them. Or that Micharl doesn't give her the chance. I knew he'd be good for something.

Why waste it like that?! In American culture we just use it for injections to get rid of wrinkles---collagen injections. :rolleyes:

nx01a
February 15th, 2008, 05:06 PM
That's what I'm saying, vab.;) The umbilical can hide the 'bits', I guess. We'll be seeing the birth from the side anyway. This isn't Stargate: Discovery Health.

I wonder if this is the version you can remote control to cry and move? I'd assume so.

Jumper_One
February 15th, 2008, 05:07 PM
That's what I'm saying, vab.;) The umbilical can hide the 'bits', I guess. We'll be seeing the birth from the side anyway. This isn't Stargate: Discovery Health.

I wonder if this is the version you can remote control to cry and move? I'd assume so.

:lol:

cabouse18
February 15th, 2008, 05:08 PM
That's what I'm saying, vab.;) The umbilical can hide the 'bits', I guess. We'll be seeing the birth from the side anyway. This isn't Stargate: Discovery Health.

I wonder if this is the version you can remote control to cry and move? I'd assume so.

:lol:

Willow'sCat
February 15th, 2008, 05:58 PM
That sounds like the umbilical cord...
Checking the pic with a bit of courage, that's just the umbilical cord. The placenta's big, flat, circular and purple. Yep that is the cord.

I have a feeling... McKay may cut the cord! It seems in the scene where she gives birth McKay is there, he may faint I don't know :P but I would love it if he cut the cord! *aw* Uncle Rodney. ;):)

ciannwn
February 15th, 2008, 06:09 PM
You would like Earth's location---with the new rich feeding ground,

She knew that the Atlantis expedition didn't come from a primitive civilisation so it was likely that Earth had good weapons available. There was also the possibility of other civilisations in the Milky Way having powerful warships too. She only had two hive ships and in 'Misbegotten' Shepperd says that one of them didn't have a full complement even before some of the rv'd Wraith killed each other. Setting off to conquer a galaxy with just two ships and a less than full complement of crew and soldiers indicates a lot of optimism but not much of a battle plan.


I agree we won't have specific answers, we'd have to speculate based on the information we were given.

Speculation leads people in different directions. Two people can also look at the same information and come up with two different interpretations.


I had the same problem with The Chronicles of Narnia when I thought about it. Kind of like my food is talking.

I've never had any problems like that It could explain why we have different ideas about what the 'Allies' Queen might have felt.


You just mentioned that the Queen said you maintained the stench. I figured she's right. They do have a strong sense of smell.

I wouldn't disagree that they have a strong sense of smell. Maybe Michael had been permanently affected by the rv so he no longer smelled like a proper Wraith. On the other hand "the lingering stench of what they have transformed you into" might have been intended as a metaphor in this particular context. I was looking up some metaphors here and came across these -

That idea stinks.

He reeks of evil.

The stench of impending doom hung in the air.


That's a biological shift, he'll never be what he was before.

We were never told what the long term effects of the rv might have been. The only thing we know from Vengeance is that he had short hair which isn't something we've seen on another Wraith.


Remember back in Instinct, she even said that Ellia was something different than the "normal wraith" but she was sure there is definitely one Wraith out there.

The curious thing about Ellia was that she'd reached the age where she was feeding on humans. The question now is why does Teyla sense 'normal' Wraith as a "deep cold that comes from within"? What is it about 'normal' Wraith that causes this sensation and why doesn't Ellia have this effect on Teyla even though she'd never been given a retrovirus so was biologically 'normal'? Could it be something to do with the 'mental aura' that Wraith project? If so, maybe Ellia's difference was due to the emotional effect of having been raised by a human and knowing what his people would do if they found her. Fear, revulsion for her feeding habits and such would probably make her come across as 'different' from other Wraith.

I'm now going to backtrack so I can put two related bits together.


I said she had to open her mind in order for the Wraith to take control and when we're looking as SoW we can say she also needed to open her mind to that extent to be touched by her spawn in order for her to use it's own power and abilities to take out the Queen.


As for knowing the gender, I thought the kid told her. Remember she touched minds with it and was able to pull on it's strength as well---this was during the time of the mental battle with the Queen.

If she did touch minds with it here she must have 'felt' something about it, especially if it was able to tell her its gender. The thing is, this was a fetus which doesn't even start kicking until the next episode (Quarantine) if Teyla's pride and delight is anything to go by so how much power, abilities and strength would a 'normal' unborn baby that age have when it's brain isn't fully developed?


She senses other entities besides the Wraith, hence the reason I mentioned Epiphany...

I've just checked 'Epiphany' and, after everyone has heard the Beast roaring she says that she senses something is near although she doesn't know what it is. Does the Beast count as a normal life form, though, because the explanation we get for it is -

TEER: You were right, John. We were afraid. The Beast was the final burden we had to shed, manifest from our own fears. You gave us the courage to face it.


The parasite is advancing much the same way most births advance. Which would say even if it has Wraith attributes---it is of a humanoid nature which cannot be dismissed.

If it's got powers, abilities and strength of its own it must have come across as something even if it doesn't give her a feeling of deep cold that comes from within. Teyla isn't medically trained so she probably wouldn't know anything about 'normal' brain development for a pre-kicking stage fetus but she must be familiar with very young babies from her previous life with the Athosians. Unless Athosian babies are very unusual their abilities would be limited to things like crying loudly, making glopping noises and bringing up milk. Why didn't she find it odd that her own unborn baby enhanced her abilities to operate a hive ship and take control of a Wraith Queen? Surely she'd have been asked to report everything that had occurred. If she did somebody should have been going ???.



Also...go back to "The Gift"....why do you think people like Teyla were a threat. They had wraith abilities that were close to powerful and almost powerful and yet were not wraith.

We're still talking about a fetus where Teyla's child is concerned.

http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/002398.htm

The fact that Teyla can feel it kicking in 'Quarantine' suggests that it's around 20 weeks old in this story so it would have been younger in 'Spoils Of War'. Rapid brain development starts taking place around week 25. There's no way that it's brain in 'Spoils' would be developed enough to give it any special abilities unless it had very little of the human about it at all.


Further more, you don't know if she can sense wraith babies. You have no idea if Wraith babies are very humanistic in development.

Wraith babies would have Iratus bug DNA - it would have to be completely dormant so as not to have any effect at all on a Wraith fetus's gradually developing brain. Maybe it is dormant for some reason even though Wraith are supposed to be closer to the bugs than humans.


I find it perfectly logical that the Wraith Queen probably wouldn't sense it's wraith. Further more, the Queen would have to enter a mind of the human in order to sense she was even pregnant and that took digging.

The 'Spoils Of War' Queen was inside Teyla's mind enough to know that she was pregnant.

HIVE QUEEN: Of course. Now I feel it. You're not working alone. There is another life {life} inside you {inside you}, helping you.

HIVE QUEEN: You cannot resist me for long. Combined, your two minds are very powerful, ...

The Queen then goes looking for it so she can "crush it out of existence" and eventually it's -

HIVE QUEEN: There it is.

HIVE QUEEN: The other life inside you.

The Queen must have picked up something from it but we have no idea what it was.


You're incorrect about Beckett and the equipment. You need to rewatch the episode or read the transcript.

Beckett can't find anything at first so Teyla asks if she can go to the mainland because she wants to see Charan. On hearing the story of the taken who were returned the next place she and the team go to was the planet where it happened. This is where the Wraith laboratory was discovered and they find a data recorder.

Once Beckett had the clue he knew he needed Wraith cells which he eventually got. He was interrupted when talking about the 50% mapping stage and then announced that Teyla had Wraith DNA. The equipment he was using wasn't Ancient standard but it had been good enough for him to develop his Ancient gene therapy with so it couldn't have been all that primitive. In 'Instinct' he announces that he's been working on developing a retrovirus although his prototype has the opposite effect to the one intended. When 'Michael' takes place he has a retrovirus which turns a male Wraith human so he's now come a very long way in research and knowledge since 'The Gift'.


And here in lies why the child might be specifically unique to make it appear unknown.

If it was that unique an examination of it's genetic makeup would probably find something odd. Even if there isn't an experienced geneticist in the city now there's still the gate bridge back to Earth. SGA would surely be able to get hold of a geneticist from somewhere so he/she could either go to Atlantis or have samples sent back.


That's if she was suspicous. But she's not, possibly she assumes the parasites abilities are inherented from herself and it's human because of Kanan.

Even if Teyla thought that a human fetus should have the abilities her own child seemed to have manifested it's odd that nobody else has questioned it. If it was under 20 weeks old during 'Spoils' it wouldn't have had a properly developed brain so how could it have had a mind which, when joined with Teyla's was powerful enough to overcome a Wraith Queen for a while? Then there's the bit about the hive ship being easier for Teyla to control and fly as well.


There are peole out there with her "gift" and these gifted have reproduced with humans. I think for Sheppard and everyone else involved they wouldn't be surprised by what Teyla is saying, since they believe Kanan is the father and canon has stated that the kid would have her abilities as well--since the gene doesn't seem to weaken through the generations.

The child isn't even born yet let alone an adult with a fully developed brain. Even a newborn baby's brain wouldn't give it Teyla's abillities unless it was very far removed from being human.

Brain By Birth (http://www.zerotothree.org/site/PageServer?pagename=ter_key_brainFAQ#bybirth)

Although it has already undergone an amazing amount of development, the brain of a newborn baby is still very much a work-in-progress. It is small--little more than one-quarter of its adult size--and strikingly uneven in its maturity. By birth, only the lower portions of the nervous system (the spinal cord and brain stem) are very well developed, whereas the higher regions (the limbic system and cerebral cortex) are still rather primitive.

vaberella
February 15th, 2008, 07:27 PM
ciannwn, I'll address your post tomorrow, since I do have some answers I'd like to put up. But unfortunately on the Eastern coast, it's late and I'm drained from an early morning. Plus, I feel like I'll be "worn down" once again by your post.

Onwards to other things for a moment...

So next ep we have Kanan finally making an appearance in a "vision"---I'm starting that's all Kanan is to her...a hologram of something she's supposed to believe in but may not be real.

As I asked in the Midway thread. Who was he in the film 300?! I don't remember him at all, and I don't forget sex appeal easily!!!

And in what ep does Kanan show himself...Kindred of all things. So we'll have him in the same ep as Michael and the discovery of Carson, I'm sensing a set up. The Wraith are really superbly intelligent creatures.

Amalthea
February 15th, 2008, 08:14 PM
Yep that is the cord.

I have a feeling... McKay may cut the cord! It seems in the scene where she gives birth McKay is there, he may faint I don't know :P but I would love it if he cut the cord! *aw* Uncle Rodney. ;):)

You gotta say it like "Uncle Wodney" for the full disgruntled :mckay: effect. lol

PG15
February 15th, 2008, 10:05 PM
As I asked in the Midway thread. Who was he in the film 300?! I don't remember him at all, and I don't forget sex appeal easily!!!



If Kanan is the same guy as in the Gateworld photos, then it could be this guy:

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1150775/

He looks like that guy, and he was in 300 (but not in a big part, I suppose. I didn't watch that movie).

ciannwn
February 16th, 2008, 03:27 AM
ciannwn, I'll address your post tomorrow, since I do have some answers I'd like to put up.

Maybe it will be easier if I just put my thoughts about Teyla's baby's brain in one shortish post. You don't have to agree with me but it should explain the way I'm approaching the puzzle.

1: DNA is like a blueprint for building a body.

http://www.microbeworld.org/know/dna.aspx

It is the genetic blueprint, or recipe, for making all living things. Almost every cell in your body contains DNA and all the information needed to make you what you are, from the way you look to which hand you write with.

Teyla's Wraith DNA has given her Wraith telepathic abilities. It's logical to assume that some part of her brain is constructed on the Wraith pattern enough for her to be able to tune into the Wraith telepathic network. Her normal, everyday sensing ability is an extremely toned down version of this because she doesn't hear their thoughts unless she makes an effort to tune in.

2: In 'Be All My Sins' we learn the following -

SHEPPARD: ...How ... far along are you?

TEYLA: About three months.

'Spoils Of War' continues from where 'Be All My Sins' ended so Teyla is still about three months pregnant in this story.

3: Everyone thinks Teyla's baby is human with, perhaps, a bit of Wraith DNA which will give it Wraith telepathic abilities once it's brain is fully developed. What they'd be expecting the fetus to be like at Teyla's stage of pregnancy would be something on these lines depending on how many weeks 'about three months' actually is. This could be 12, 13 or maybe 14 weeks. (15 weeks would be nearer four months.)

http://www.umm.edu/ency/article/002398.htm

This page has further links to a bit of extra detail. I won't give every single link but people can double check things for themselves if they want to.

It's between 3 and 6 inches long. It's learned how to make a fist and suck its thumb. It's got some kind of a brain but it's still rudimentary at the moment - it won't enter the rapid brain development stage until around week 25. If it's got Wraith DNA the part of its brain responsible for 'telepathic abilities' should also be in a rudimentary state.

4: The Queen tells Teyla - "You cannot resist me for long. Combined, your two minds are very powerful.."

If Teyla mentioned that her baby's mind helped her to control the Queen, someone ought to be thinking this is a bit odd. A human fetus between 12 and 14 weeks old doesn't have a brain capable of producing much in the way of mind let alone one which is powerful enough to help Teyla overcome a Wraith Queen.

vaberella
February 16th, 2008, 07:27 AM
Maybe it will be easier if I just put my thoughts about Teyla's baby's brain in one shortish post. You don't have to agree with me but it should explain the way I'm approaching the puzzle.

1: DNA is like a blueprint for building a body.

http://www.microbeworld.org/know/dna.aspx

It is the genetic blueprint, or recipe, for making all living things. Almost every cell in your body contains DNA and all the information needed to make you what you are, from the way you look to which hand you write with.

Teyla's Wraith DNA has given her Wraith telepathic abilities. It's logical to assume that some part of her brain is constructed on the Wraith pattern enough for her to be able to tune into the Wraith telepathic network. Her normal, everyday sensing ability is an extremely toned down version of this because she doesn't hear their thoughts unless she makes an effort to tune in.

2: In 'Be All My Sins' we learn the following -

SHEPPARD: ...How ... far along are you?

TEYLA: About three months.

'Spoils Of War' continues from where 'Be All My Sins' ended so Teyla is still about three months pregnant in this story.

3: Everyone thinks Teyla's baby is human with, perhaps, a bit of Wraith DNA which will give it Wraith telepathic abilities once it's brain is fully developed. What they'd be expecting the fetus to be like at Teyla's stage of pregnancy would be something on these lines depending on how many weeks 'about three months' actually is. This could be 12, 13 or maybe 14 weeks. (15 weeks would be nearer four months.)

http://www.umm.edu/ency/article/002398.htm

This page has further links to a bit of extra detail. I won't give every single link but people can double check things for themselves if they want to.

It's between 3 and 6 inches long. It's learned how to make a fist and suck its thumb. It's got some kind of a brain but it's still rudimentary at the moment - it won't enter the rapid brain development stage until around week 25. If it's got Wraith DNA the part of its brain responsible for 'telepathic abilities' should also be in a rudimentary state.

4: The Queen tells Teyla - "You cannot resist me for long. Combined, your two minds are very powerful.."

If Teyla mentioned that her baby's mind helped her to control the Queen, someone ought to be thinking this is a bit odd. A human fetus between 12 and 14 weeks old doesn't have a brain capable of producing much in the way of mind let alone one which is powerful enough to help Teyla overcome a Wraith Queen.


Don't worry. I never write posts in hopes of agreement, so I can respect another individual's posts as their own form of contemplation.

Okay, I'll make a few comments, because you're touching on things that I've tread upon that I see you recognize but then you choose to ignore it time and time again.


First off let's make something clear. Teyla is not your "traditional human", secondly no matter if the "father" is human there is no way this child can be normal (even if birthing is normal by our estimation) because of the mother.

I see you're aware of this but you continously choose to ignore the pervasive importance of just that factor alone. You can't put our own human make up to generalize Teyla. This is what I refrain from in my post. I try to focus more on what we've learned in SGA about the Wraith and Teyla. I'm not saying it's a good model, because it gives you an idea, but you have to see this see this is scifi and as such it has to be looked at more 'fantastically.'

This is far from black and white and of course I'm making no claim that my direction is correct, but looking at what we can gather from the episodes as 'fantastical' as it may seem it is not confusing or hard to see it as plausible.

1. I don't know how toned down it is. Because the Wraith can keep their thoughts from their own. That has been established. Take for instance the Wraith in Allies. They said they "could" send out notice to other wraith ships but chose not too---this was the importance of their thread. So her situation is mainly keeping control versus giving her mind up for their puppeteering.

Plus, I think there is a natural mechanism that has been passed down through her lineage---they've become mentally stronger to keep out the Wraith thoughts. Her earlier ancestors weren't able to do that...they were overrun by thoughts of the wraith which led to moments of madness. Check "The Gift". Enfin, her distinct ability was a counter condition to protect her mind---which as mentioned conditioned through her lineage. The fact she needs to make an effort actually is a good thing versus a weakness.

However, I do agree that it can be safe to assume the Wraith gene is part of her brain construction.


2. JM has said in his blog that there is about 2 weeks time lapse between each episode. That's why when I look at Michael I assume several months must have went by for the retro-virus monitoring, and then the moment where he was deemed healthy but under supervision, to the time that he was released and given an identity, until of course the time he was able to find out who he was. He was able to recon a lot of information....that demanded time and acess to quite a bit of information. Another great example is to rewatch NML, McKay makes mention of a huge amount of time passage in regards to Teyla's Wraith ship training during a debriefing with Weir.

Taking that into consideration that's about 3 months probably more so 4 and passing there. You have to look at the ep and see if time was demanded. Logical processing has to give time lapses within the episode not only between the eps. However, to make this easier I'll agree to your 3 months.


3. Why would you say that it's wraith part would be "rudimentary"? I think you take a lot of liberty with Wraith dna and what affect it can have on a fetus. Physiological changes doesn't mean that biological and really mental abilities don't surpass them--especially considering wraith dna involved. I won't deny that the wraith do have humnoid experience as children, since I've mentioned it quite a bit. However, we don't know the extent of their mental state even if physically and to survive they have human functions early on. You're basing this entirely on a human child and not taking into consideration or really you're disregarding how active the wraith gene is during the time of gestation. This is something none of us can fully argue because we don't know much about Wraith birthing or Wraith Queen births anyway, and if that really has any affect on Teyla.

However, after SoW, we can establish that the Wraith gene is fundamental and even if the body is basically human the brain activity of the child is far more advanced than normal---this is established in canon and can not be ignored---so we can't place Earth "human" functions entirely to those of the Wraith gene or Wriath in general.


4. There's one fundamental difference between a human fetus and Teyla's fetus at this point. Teyla's fetus is not as human as we would like to think it is...which is why I don't think Kanan is the father of parasite. This thing is a creature. Of course I would expect something off with the creature considering it's mother. But the extent we're seeing something off and the power of the mental state the parasite is more powerful than expected. Which is what I've been saying from the beginning. It can't be fully human and never would it be, this would be the case if Kanan is the father or not.



As I said early on and to reiterate...no matter who the father is the parasite will not have Teyla experiencing a normal birth. The parasite cannot be normal because the Mother is not normal and canon has not said that the gene skips a generation. Cronica, it would be safe to say the parasitic life form gestating within Teyla isn't like you or me and NEVER would be.

cabouse18
February 16th, 2008, 07:50 AM
Can we all agree that this is Scifi and they tend to bend all known rules of genetics, biology and other things?? ;)

After seeing the promo for Kindered.....

I am massively confused how the replicators seem to fit in, what is has to do with Michael and now, sorry to say, I might actually be leaning towards her kid is normal :eek: Is anyone else like WTF????

and perosnally......and this is just my opinion.......

I think they never should have wrote the pregnancy into the show....hell it would have been more plausible for her to have disappeared with her people or they could have had her split ties with Atlantis to search for her people and then they find her in Search and Rescue.

We practically don't get any Teyla now as it is....so what would have been the difference?

ciannwn
February 16th, 2008, 05:04 PM
I see you're aware of this but you continously choose to ignore the pervasive importance of just that factor alone. You can't put our own human make up to generalize Teyla.

I was talking about the SGA characters not finding anything strange about Teyla's baby even though a lot of viewers do. In my last post I said - "Everyone thinks Teyla's baby is human with, perhaps, a bit of Wraith DNA which will give it Wraith telepathic abilities once it's brain is fully developed. What they'd be expecting the fetus to be like at Teyla's stage of pregnancy would be ..." I then went on to give a few examples of what they'd be expecting from a normally developing human fetus with a bit of Wraith DNA. A couple of things in 'The Gift' suggest why they appear to expect this.

BECKETT: I ran every test I could on all of you from the get-go. Physiologically, you and your people are the same as we are. I have no explanation for any of your special super-powers.

After Beckett has discovered that Teyla has some Wraith DNA we get the following -

SHEPPARD: You're saying Teyla's part-Wraith?!

BECKETT: A very small part.

WEIR (to John): Which makes her about as different from us as you, because of the Ancient gene you possess.

Jumping to your last paragraph because it fits here.


The parasite cannot be normal because the Mother is not normal
The Atlantis characters seem to think that Teyla is as normal as Sheppard as far as being human goes. This suggests that they're regarding Teyla's baby in the same way because they believe another Athosian is the father.


JM has said in his blog that there is about 2 weeks time lapse between each episode.

Taking that into consideration that's about 3 months probably more so 4 and passing there. You have to look at the ep and see if time was demanded.

We can narrow things down a bit within the 'Be All My Sins' story. Sheppard and co. go with Todd to the hive and then on to see Larrin. The Larrin interview ends with her leaving the room while Sheppard is still tied to the chair. The next scene is where Zelenka discovers that Rodney has created Fran although she doesn't have her name yet.

The scene after that is Sheppard and co. returning to the city. This is where Teyla reveals that she's about three months pregnant. We can't pinpoint the exact day but it must be somewhere around the 12 week mark. A few weeks more and she'd have reported that she was about four months pregnant. There would be some time needed for Larrin to get to Atlantis but the conference doesn't take long and the Daedalus, Apollo and Larrin's ship set off to join the Wraith and other Traveller ships immediately afterwards. The battle itself can't have taken days.

In 'Spoils' -

McKAY: It's only been a week since the battle

He then points out the flashing dot that's Todd's tracking device. The signal is monitored for nearly 24 hours and then they decide to investigate. The rest depends on how long it takes to reach the hive, get some repairs done while Sheppard returns to Atlantis for Teyla etc.

''Quarantine' is the story after 'Spoils'. Going by the size of Teyla's bump it's been more than two weeks since the end of the last episode. (Hopefully, she won't have shrunk a bit the next time we see her because of continuity problems. :D)

She has a happy experience while trapped with Sheppard.

(Turning to look around the room, she suddenly turns back and stares down at her stomach wide-eyed. John sees her expression and stops, staring at her nervously. She looks up at him briefly, then down at her stomach again and gasps. John points to her anxiously.)

(Teyla smiles.)

TEYLA: The baby just kicked.

This comes across to me as the first time that she's actually felt the baby kicking. Estimates vary as to when this would be because it depends on how the mother interprets the first sensations that she can actually feel.

Baby's Movements (http://www.babycentre.co.uk/pregnancy/antenatalhealth/physicalhealth/babysmovements/)

For a first pregnancy you will probably be aware of something at around 18 to 20 weeks. For subsequent pregnancies, when you know the tell-tale signs, first movements can be felt earlier, at around 15 to 18 weeks.

Working backwards we can get an idea of what age the fetus wasn't during 'Spoils'.

Normal development as far as size goes is suggested by Teyla not feeling it kicking until 'Quarantine'. Even if she was four months pregnant during 'Spoils' the fetus would have been about 6 inches long A 6 inch long fetus doesn't have a big enough head to hold much in the way of brain matter.

The expedition members don't appear to have changed their views of Teyla being no more different from 'normal' than Sheppard is and they seem to be treating the baby as normal for someone like Teyla as far as development goes. They've seen Teyla engaged in telepathic contact with Wraith and they know she can be taken over even though she has an adult, fully developed brain. Her baby, which they appear to be assuming has the same amount of Wraith DNA as Teyla, has a tiny little brain. The Wraith Queen tells Teyla "Combined, your two minds are very powerful.."

I just find it odd that the other characters aren't thinking ???? at the baby being able help it's mother control a Wraith Queen. Shouldn't they be wondering why a tiny little human brain with a bit of Wraith DNA has a mind powerful enough to increase the abilities of an adult human brain with the same bit of Wraith DNA? Why doesn't anyone appear to be thinking that maybe the tiny little brain could be less human than Teyla's?


There's one fundamental difference between a human fetus and Teyla's fetus at this point. Teyla's fetus is not as human as we would like to think it is...which is why I don't think Kanan is the father of parasite. This thing is a creature.

The SGA characters do appear to think that the baby is as human as Teyla is, though. Nobody seems to be considering the possibility that it isn't as human as it ought to be and suggesting that Kanan mightn't be the father.


Of course I would expect something off with the creature considering it's mother. But the extent we're seeing something off and the power of the mental state the parasite is more powerful than expected. Which is what I've been saying from the beginning.

I agree with you and that's why I think it's odd that the SGA characters don't seem to think its mental state is more powerful than expected. I even said I thought it was odd at the very end of my last post. Unlike us viewers they don't have the advantage of being able to read spoilers for future episodes but even so, they seem to be taking an awful lot for granted.

vaberella
February 17th, 2008, 07:39 AM
Can we all agree that this is Scifi and they tend to bend all known rules of genetics, biology and other things?? ;)

That's actually been my point all along.


After seeing the promo for Kindered.....

I am massively confused how the replicators seem to fit in, what is has to do with Michael and now, sorry to say, I might actually be leaning towards her kid is normal :eek: Is anyone else like WTF????

That's whats great about scifi. It's not supposed to make "sense". Well no matter what it's not normal. But the spoilers actually made me think that it's far from human.


and perosnally......and this is just my opinion.......

I think they never should have wrote the pregnancy into the show....hell it would have been more plausible for her to have disappeared with her people or they could have had her split ties with Atlantis to search for her people and then they find her in Search and Rescue.

We practically don't get any Teyla now as it is....so what would have been the difference?

Many people have said the same thing. I have no problems with the pregnancy, because the writers had a valid reason for doing what they did considering what was going on in real life. I just don't want the kid to survive, since I feel it would just dominate the Teyla storyline and we lose Teyla to a baby. As I've said before, there are quite a bit of problems that arise from it, especially considering the fact that Teyla is not one of the most fleshed out characters; if at all.

The Teyla story was to be far more fleshed out and better formatted and having the pregnancy take a backseat than become the most pervasive part of the story. Unfortunately fandom and basically the storyline actually makes her pregnancy pervasive. Cronica, things then become revovled around the pregnancy rather than around Teyla. The character takes a backseat and unfortunately, yeah I feel she has.

I've even said that the problem also I have is the fact that Teyla is not really developed. People seem to be taking notice, but not of anything that wasn't in place before. I see people going, Teyla was great in a scene...and as a Teyla fan in the past I'm like where is this greatness coming from?! Its not something that already isn't established and part of the character. The character is not taken on a really unique avenue to garner development yet. She's just same old Teyla with maybe a few more words in a few episodes.

Some scenes of her I thought was totally worthless and unnecessary. As I said, I recognize why the writers did what they did. Unforunately I don't think they were successful in keeping Teyla, but lost her to keep her baby storyline viable. :S

vaberella
February 17th, 2008, 08:10 AM
I was talking about the SGA characters not finding anything strange about Teyla's baby even though a lot of viewers do. In my last post I said - "Everyone thinks Teyla's baby is human with, perhaps, a bit of Wraith DNA which will give it Wraith telepathic abilities once it's brain is fully developed. What they'd be expecting the fetus to be like at Teyla's stage of pregnancy would be ..." I then went on to give a few examples of what they'd be expecting from a normally developing human fetus with a bit of Wraith DNA. A couple of things in 'The Gift' suggest why they appear to expect this.

BECKETT: I ran every test I could on all of you from the get-go. Physiologically, you and your people are the same as we are. I have no explanation for any of your special super-powers.

After Beckett has discovered that Teyla has some Wraith DNA we get the following -

SHEPPARD: You're saying Teyla's part-Wraith?!

BECKETT: A very small part.

WEIR (to John): Which makes her about as different from us as you, because of the Ancient gene you possess.

Jumping to your last paragraph because it fits here.


The Atlantis characters seem to think that Teyla is as normal as Sheppard as far as being human goes. This suggests that they're regarding Teyla's baby in the same way because they believe another Athosian is the father.
I never denied that and actually put that in many of my previous posts. So I'm trying to see where you're going with it?! Since you were demanding why they don't know. And I explained using the above reasons why the lead actors might not question or wonder about Teyla's pregnancy too much.

I also mentioned they don't have the equipment and full on knowledge of Wraith neonates to also make any other speculative ideas besides that it's human. So, even if the kid is NOT human, there is too much information contrary and saying that it is human that they would never question the pregnancy or wonder about certain aspects of the child. The brain function of a human child cannot explain the brain function of a child with wraith dna---and one that may have been medically fooled around with.



We can narrow things down a bit within the 'Be All My Sins' story. Sheppard and co. go with Todd to the hive and then on to see Larrin. The Larrin interview ends with her leaving the room while Sheppard is still tied to the chair. The next scene is where Zelenka discovers that Rodney has created Fran although she doesn't have her name yet.

The scene after that is Sheppard and co. returning to the city. This is where Teyla reveals that she's about three months pregnant. We can't pinpoint the exact day but it must be somewhere around the 12 week mark. A few weeks more and she'd have reported that she was about four months pregnant. There would be some time needed for Larrin to get to Atlantis but the conference doesn't take long and the Daedalus, Apollo and Larrin's ship set off to join the Wraith and other Traveller ships immediately afterwards. The battle itself can't have taken days.

In 'Spoils' -

McKAY: It's only been a week since the battle

He then points out the flashing dot that's Todd's tracking device. The signal is monitored for nearly 24 hours and then they decide to investigate. The rest depends on how long it takes to reach the hive, get some repairs done while Sheppard returns to Atlantis for Teyla etc.

''Quarantine' is the story after 'Spoils'. Going by the size of Teyla's bump it's been more than two weeks since the end of the last episode. (Hopefully, she won't have shrunk a bit the next time we see her because of continuity problems. :D)

She has a happy experience while trapped with Sheppard.

(Turning to look around the room, she suddenly turns back and stares down at her stomach wide-eyed. John sees her expression and stops, staring at her nervously. She looks up at him briefly, then down at her stomach again and gasps. John points to her anxiously.)

(Teyla smiles.)

TEYLA: The baby just kicked.

This comes across to me as the first time that she's actually felt the baby kicking. Estimates vary as to when this would be because it depends on how the mother interprets the first sensations that she can actually feel.

Baby's Movements (http://www.babycentre.co.uk/pregnancy/antenatalhealth/physicalhealth/babysmovements/)

For a first pregnancy you will probably be aware of something at around 18 to 20 weeks. For subsequent pregnancies, when you know the tell-tale signs, first movements can be felt earlier, at around 15 to 18 weeks.

Working backwards we can get an idea of what age the fetus wasn't during 'Spoils'.

I don't see the point of all this. As I said, JM has said in his blog there are about 2 week intervals in posts and I made mention that logical pathways can also say that WITHIN eps there are times periods that go by. So I see you've said a lot, and I'll assume you just wanted to prove that she's 3 months along nearly 4. I said she was probably nearly 4 passing the 3 month mark, but that's subjective since we're basing it on speculative knowledge. I'm not saying it's incorrect because I did the same, but there was no reason to go on and on about it since I said we'll use the 3 month mark as a valid estimation even if it's not mentioned in the storyline.


Normal development as far as size goes is suggested by Teyla not feeling it kicking until 'Quarantine'. Even if she was four months pregnant during 'Spoils' the fetus would have been about 6 inches long A 6 inch long fetus doesn't have a big enough head to hold much in the way of brain matter.
You forget about wraith dna which can't be ignored. You just go on this normal kick which isn't possible since SoW confirmed that the child ISN'T normal.


The expedition members don't appear to have changed their views of Teyla being no more different from 'normal' than Sheppard is and they seem to be treating the baby as normal for someone like Teyla as far as development goes. They've seen Teyla engaged in telepathic contact with Wraith and they know she can be taken over even though she has an adult, fully developed brain. Her baby, which they appear to be assuming has the same amount of Wraith DNA as Teyla, has a tiny little brain. The Wraith Queen tells Teyla "Combined, your two minds are very powerful.."

I just find it odd that the other characters aren't thinking ???? at the baby being able help it's mother control a Wraith Queen. Shouldn't they be wondering why a tiny little human brain with a bit of Wraith DNA has a mind powerful enough to increase the abilities of an adult human brain with the same bit of Wraith DNA? Why doesn't anyone appear to be thinking that maybe the tiny little brain could be less human than Teyla's?
Probably again because they don't have the full knowledge of the wraith gene. And actually don't see this as being odd for those like Teyla. We don't know anything about Teyla's own mother and her pregnancy. They could see this as being very normal for her. You and many people as well as the characters keep pushing this "bit of Wraith DNA". I think that's one of the things the writers are using but have established that her Wraith dna is far from a bit. AGain as I mentioned Carson could not define how much Wraith DNA makes up Teyla. The Wraith themselves were believed to be humans at some point. Add that to genetic modification with humans using Wraith DNA there's no telling the magnitude of the Wraith DNA in the human body. Beckett himself even said that he'd need to do genetic mapping and needing samples.

I think you're taking a lot for granted. As I mentioned check out Epiphany. Her Wraith DNA provided her the ability to sense other entities that a NORMAL human could not. Look again at Instinct...she could sense something decidedly different about Ellia versus the other Wraith running around. Go back to Rising II and The Gift, they established that Teyla's physiology is decidedly different and far superior than the NORMAL human. Yes, she has all things human but she is NOT and extremely far from being a NORMAL human.

These things have to be recognized. I'll assume Beckett never had a chance to do full indepth study of Teyla as she is, and I'm sure the equipment is definitely not up to par to do it and the samples were most definitely not enough. You allowed yourself to believe that it's tiny when in fact the show goes further to make it far from small.

Other than not feeding off of humans, Teyla has many Wraith like abilities.



The SGA characters do appear to think that the baby is as human as Teyla is, though. Nobody seems to be considering the possibility that it isn't as human as it ought to be and suggesting that Kanan mightn't be the father.
And that's the beauty and adds to the stupidity of the characters that have been established since S1. Kanan could very well be the father, but the parasite would never be normal because of the mother. And SoW, again verifies that the fetus cannot be normal even if the rest of the characters just put it down to a "Teyla thing".


I agree with you and that's why I think it's odd that the SGA characters don't seem to think its mental state is more powerful than expected. I even said I thought it was odd at the very end of my last post. Unlike us viewers they don't have the advantage of being able to read spoilers for future episodes but even so, they seem to be taking an awful lot for granted.

I don't. They've proven they're idiots time and time again.

You're just giving them far more credit than they rightly deserve.
:ronan::tealc:

ciannwn
February 17th, 2008, 01:13 PM
You just go on this normal kick which isn't possible since SoW confirmed that the child ISN'T normal.

I'm not saying that the child is normal. A fetus having a mind powerful enough to help control a Wraith Queen is definitely not normal.


You and many people as well as the characters keep pushing this "bit of Wraith DNA".

Whenever I said a 'bit of Wraith DNA' I was intending it to be read as meaning what the Stargate characters seem to be thinking, not what I was thinking.


AGain as I mentioned Carson could not define how much Wraith DNA makes up Teyla. The Wraith themselves were believed to be humans at some point. Add that to genetic modification with humans using Wraith DNA there's no telling the magnitude of the Wraith DNA in the human body. Beckett himself even said that he'd need to do genetic mapping and needing samples.

According to what Beckett said in 'The Gift' he did acquire some Wraith cells and get the mapping process underway.

Beckett: We needed Wraith cells, which we eventually got,but then we need a full mapping of the genetic code contained within those cells, which wasn't even fifty percent complete ...

This appears to mean that Beckett managed to find Teyla's Wraith DNA while the Wraith mapping process was still under 50% complete. I'm guessing he's supposed to have compared this partial map with Teyla's genetic makeup. Maybe he did miss something if he didn't do another comparison when the Wraith gene map was 100% complete. As for believing the Wraith to be humans at some point, he wasn't thinking that in 'The Gift'.

McKAY: But I thought you already said they had a number of genetic characteristics similar to humans.

BECKETT: They do -- but they're still much closer to the bug creature that attacked Major Sheppard than to us.

and

BECKETT: My theory is that the Ancients unwittingly allowed humans to evolve on a planet with, uh, (he looks apologetically at John) insect species on it. At some point the insects fed on humans and somehow incorporated our DNA into theirs. The Wraith are an evolution of that combination.

The other expedition members believe that he was right.

McKAY (in 'Spoils'): ... I mean, you've gotta remember – they're descended from insects, right? ..


As I mentioned check out Epiphany. Her Wraith DNA provided her the ability to sense other entities that a NORMAL human could not.

It was never explained why her Wraith DNA enabled her to sense a manifestation of the 'Epiphany' community's fears. It would have been nice to know seeing as the Beast wasn't a Wraith or even a real life form.


Look again at Instinct...she could sense something decidedly different about Ellia versus the other Wraith running around.

It was never explained how she was able to sense something different about Ellia. In 'The Gift' she tells Heightmeyer that sensing Wraith " ..feels like a deep cold that comes from within. I first felt it when I was a girl. I could not breathe, and I did not know why, and then we heard the Darts." I don't think she ever described what she 'felt' from Ellia, the 'Ephiphany' Beast or even Todd during his stay in the city. Does the 'deep cold' feeling only apply to Wraith who are in the 'hunting mode' or what? For all we know, the deep cold feeling could be something that the scriptwriters 'conveniently forgot about' because it suited their plot purposes to do so. This doesn't mean that she didn't sense these other things, of course, just that the scriptwriters neglected to give us further details.


Go back to Rising II and The Gift, they established that Teyla's physiology is decidedly different and far superior than the NORMAL human. Yes, she has all things human but she is NOT and extremely far from being a NORMAL human.

I wasn't trying to prove that she's 'normal'. I was looking at what the Stargate characters said in 'The Gift' and trying to figure out what they might think about her.

SHEPPARD: You're saying Teyla's part-Wraith?!

BECKETT: A very small part.

WEIR (to John): Which makes her about as different from us as you, because of the Ancient gene you possess.

Weir seems to be saying that Teyla is no further removed from ordinary humans than Sheppard with his Ancient gene is. Maybe they were underestimating how far removed from ordinary humans she actually is.


I'll assume Beckett never had a chance to do full indepth study of Teyla as she is, and I'm sure the equipment is definitely not up to par to do it and the samples were most definitely not enough.

His equipment was good enough to identify the Ancient gene with and I'm guessing he took it with him when he went to Atlantis. From 'Hide And Seek' -

BECKETT: We believe A.T.A. -- or Ancient Technology Activation -- is caused by a single gene that's always on, instructing various cells in the body to produce a series of proteins and enzymes that interact with the skin, the nervous system and the brain. (He gestures dramatically with the syringe. McKay watches it nervously.) In this case we're using a mouse retrovirus to deliver the missing gene to your cells.

Beckett would have had more Wraith samples to work with after 'The Seige' - there was Bob (a faced male), the masked guard who was still attached to Ford when they fished him out of the sea and probably a lot of other Wraith lying around as well. As for him not having a chance to do a full, in depth study of Teyla, he'd have had plenty of time if he'd wanted to do further comparisons between her genetic makeup and Wraith genetic makeup. 'The Gift' was the third from last story in Seaon One . As I said earlier, maybe he didn't bother so missed something.


You allowed yourself to believe that it's tiny when in fact the show goes further to make it far from small.

I wasn't talking about what I believe. I was saying that the other SGA characters might believe it because Beckett said -

BECKETT: A very small part.

As for how much Wraith DNA she has, we don't know. We've never had a story where Beckett or Keller reported the percentage of Wraith DNA in her genetic makeup. If the medical department is supposed to know more it's being kept a secret from us viewers.


Other than not feeding off of humans, Teyla has many Wraith like abilities.

She has Wraith telepathic abilities which enable her to tune into Wraith minds. She can also fly hive ships but it hasn't been explained whether this is something to do with her Wraith telepathic abilities or another Wraith gene which makes hive ships respond to Wraith. She's fast and strong in combat but was no match for Steve at the end of 'Suspicion'. Ronon appears to be stronger and better in combat than the average human but there's never been any suggestion that he's got Wraith DNA.


So I see you've said a lot, and I'll assume you just wanted to prove that she's 3 months along nearly 4.

The length of the pregnancy determines the size of the fetus and how much brain matter its head can hold. This is the first time that the medical department would have come across the fetus of an Athosian woman with Wraith DNA. You'd think they'd be taking a lot of professional interest in it. An ordinary human fetus wouldn't have a mind powerful enough to help control a Wraith Queen so you'd think that Teyla's baby would have caused a sensation. The expedition is supposed to be involved in scientific research as well as fighting 'bad guys' and Teyla's baby is definitely something of a scientific curiosity.


And that's the beauty and adds to the stupidity of the characters that have been established since S1. Kanan could very well be the father, but the parasite would never be normal because of the mother. And SoW, again verifies that the fetus cannot be normal even if the rest of the characters just put it down to a "Teyla thing".

That's what I've been saying. They don't seem to question why a 3 - 4 month old fetus with it's tiny little brain should have a mind strong enough to help it's mother who has a fully developed adult brain. Some of us viewers are going ???? at the news but, up to now, none of the SGA characters seem to find it odd. We haven't seen the rest of the season,though, so maybe they'll think something's odd about it in a future story. Until we have seen the rest of the story arc we don't know whether it's oddness really is due to Michael or just because it's a 'Teyla thing'. TPTB have decided something but we have no idea what it is yet.


They've proven they're idiots time and time again.

I definitely agree with you there.


You're just giving them far more credit than they rightly deserve.

I'm just giving Beckett the scientific credit for things which have been established in the series. He identified the Ancient gene which is very rare in the Earth human population and developed the Ancient gene therapy so more people could have Sheppard's ability to fly Puddle Jumpers etc. In 'The 'Gift' he'd partially mapped Wraith genetic makeup so one would assume that he'd finished the job later on. He then goes on to develop his retrovirus which is supposed to work as follows according to 'Instinct' -

BECKETT: We're working on a retrovirus that would alter Wraith D.N.A., essentially stripping out the iratus bug elements of the genetic code and leaving only the human aspects behind.

This indicates that he must have identified the Iratus bug elements because his second retrovirus targets them. It isn't perfect because it only works on males for a short time unless they're given further doses but it does suggest that he knew a lot more about Wraith genes in 'Michael' than he did in 'The Gift'. Maybe it's why the other characters think that Teyla is only "A very small part" Wraith because this is what he told them.

DONNA BOOTH
February 17th, 2008, 02:50 PM
Im already seething about the Lack of Teyla now so im hoping we get see more than one Teyla Centric episode next season

ciannwn
February 17th, 2008, 02:54 PM
Im already seething about the Lack of Teyla now so im hoping we get see more than one Teyla Centric episode next season

The lack of Teyla is probably due to Rachel Luttrell's real life pregnancy. Working on SGA full time would have been very tiring for her so they arranged for Teyla not to be in as many stories as usual.

Jumper_One
February 17th, 2008, 03:03 PM
The lack of Teyla is probably due to Rachel Luttrell's real life pregnancy. Working on SGA full time would have been very tiring for her so they arranged for Teyla not to be in as many stories as usual.

true but also Teyla will have an important role in The Kindred ;)

Willow'sCat
February 17th, 2008, 03:20 PM
So how long do you *all* think this baby will remain on the show? :cool: Can we really have SGA with a baby/child as part of the cast? Has it ever worked in other scifi shows? In my experience it hasn't, the only time it probably comes close to working is when they keep the kid but you rarely see it or hear mention of it again which really makes it nothing more then a "plot device".

Lets just say I have many doubts.:cool::S

MattSilver 3k
February 17th, 2008, 05:07 PM
I think the baby will just be a little plot device that'll appear every now and then (Think: Teyla's dying offworld or something and she tells Sheppard to look after her baby or whatever). I don't think it'll be a super wraith gene baby - just a normal one with Teyla's wraithsensing genes.

Amalthea
February 17th, 2008, 09:01 PM
So how long do you *all* think this baby will remain on the show? :cool: Can we really have SGA with a baby/child as part of the cast? Has it ever worked in other scifi shows? In my experience it hasn't, the only time it probably comes close to working is when they keep the kid but you rarely see it or hear mention of it again which really makes it nothing more then a "plot device".

Lets just say I have many doubts.:cool::S

Maybe he'll be like "Baby Ricky" from I Love Lucy and will always be napping. lol

atfan
February 19th, 2008, 06:04 AM
So how long do you *all* think this baby will remain on the show? :cool: Can we really have SGA with a baby/child as part of the cast? Has it ever worked in other scifi shows? In my experience it hasn't, the only time it probably comes close to working is when they keep the kid but you rarely see it or hear mention of it again which really makes it nothing more then a "plot device".

Lets just say I have many doubts.:cool::S
I don't think it will Probably the father will end up taking it since Telya would be reluctant to leave Atlantis or else the baby won't be normal but part Wraith in which case well who knows?

ciannwn
February 19th, 2008, 06:29 AM
or else the baby won't be normal but part Wraith in which case well who knows?

Teyla's part Wraith. The question is will the baby be 'normal' for a human woman with some Wraith DNA or will it have far more Wraith DNA than it could have inherited from it's mother?

Jumper_One
February 19th, 2008, 12:18 PM
Teyla's part Wraith. The question is will the baby be 'normal' for a human woman with some Wraith DNA or will it have far more Wraith DNA than it could have inherited from it's mother?

I'd guess if Kanan (or is it Kanaan? :S) is the father then the baby should be normal because he's human and only Teyla has some Wraith DNA. the baby would have mostly human DNA and as such be a normal kid. of course this is sci fi so anything can happen

GoSpikey
February 19th, 2008, 03:42 PM
I'd guess if Kanan (or is it Kanaan? :S) is the father then the baby should be normal because he's human and only Teyla has some Wraith DNA. the baby would have mostly human DNA and as such be a normal kid. of course this is sci fi so anything can happen

*Has freshly watched 'The Gift'*

So I can with certainty say that that IS NOT TRUE!

The Wraith who did the experiments on those people thought that the DNA would go away after several generations because of breeding with normal humans, but it only led to the 'gifted' people being able to shut out the voices, but the gift is still fully there, like Teyla sensing the Wraith from coming (it's still present in some of her people, some weaker, some strong, and she's among the stronger feeling ones, that's why they came to her for leadership.), and apparently she only needs to follow the feeling she gets when a Dart approaches, and she's inside the network.

The Wraith, after it became apparent that the DNA didn't seem to be going away, tried to get rid of it by terminating human life on the planet, but didn't know that most 'gifted' were already massacred because they turned nuts or killers, and some where banished.

I think it was also said in the ep that, by just introducing a small bit of Wraith DNA into the human, they automatically could establish contact with the Wraith network. After all, no Wraith would willingly give this kind of gift to a human, because it could compromise them instead.

So: Baby Tagan, or whatever she calls him, should have the full potential his mommy has. If daddy carries some Wraith DNA too, who knows what that might lead to.

Jumper_One
February 19th, 2008, 03:53 PM
*Has freshly watched 'The Gift'*

So I can with certainty say that that IS NOT TRUE!

The Wraith who did the experiments on those people thought that the DNA would go away after several generations because of breeding with normal humans, but it only led to the 'gifted' people being able to shut out the voices, but the gift is still fully there, like Teyla sensing the Wraith from coming (it's still present in some of her people, some weaker, some strong, and she's among the stronger feeling ones, that's why they came to her for leadership.), and apparently she only needs to follow the feeling she gets when a Dart approaches, and she's inside the network.

The Wraith, after it became apparent that the DNA didn't seem to be going away, tried to get rid of it by terminating human life on the planet, but didn't know that most 'gifted' were already massacred because they turned nuts or killers, and some where banished.

I think it was also said in the ep that, by just introducing a small bit of Wraith DNA into the human, they automatically could establish contact with the Wraith network. After all, no Wraith would willingly give this kind of gift to a human, because it could compromise them instead.

So: Baby Tagan, or whatever she calls him, should have the full potential his mommy has. If daddy carries some Wraith DNA too, who knows what that might lead to.

ok so we can't be sure about anything. thanks for the clarification :)

cabouse18
February 19th, 2008, 03:57 PM
*Has freshly watched 'The Gift'*

So I can with certainty say that that IS NOT TRUE!

The Wraith who did the experiments on those people thought that the DNA would go away after several generations because of breeding with normal humans, but it only led to the 'gifted' people being able to shut out the voices, but the gift is still fully there, like Teyla sensing the Wraith from coming (it's still present in some of her people, some weaker, some strong, and she's among the stronger feeling ones, that's why they came to her for leadership.), and apparently she only needs to follow the feeling she gets when a Dart approaches, and she's inside the network.

The Wraith, after it became apparent that the DNA didn't seem to be going away, tried to get rid of it by terminating human life on the planet, but didn't know that most 'gifted' were already massacred because they turned nuts or killers, and some where banished.

I think it was also said in the ep that, by just introducing a small bit of Wraith DNA into the human, they automatically could establish contact with the Wraith network. After all, no Wraith would willingly give this kind of gift to a human, because it could compromise them instead.

So: Baby Tagan, or whatever she calls him, should have the full potential his mommy has. If daddy carries some Wraith DNA too, who knows what that might lead to.

Wow...that does explain alot...thanks for taking the time to do that;)

Girlbot
February 19th, 2008, 04:01 PM
Don't tell me. The wraith equivalent of the Harseesis.

cabouse18
February 19th, 2008, 04:27 PM
Don't tell me. The wraith equivalent of the Harseesis.

I doubt that; it has been done (ie SG-1)

But I do still think it will be Rosemary's Baby!! :lol:

Girlbot
February 19th, 2008, 04:34 PM
I doubt that; it has been done (ie SG-1)

But I do still think it will be Rosemary's Baby!! :lol:
A baby only a mother could love. so Teyla must flee, before the unholy Sheppard and his team deem the evil baby a threat. Will she succeed? Tune in next week same wraith time same wraith channel.:teyla:;)

ciannwn
February 20th, 2008, 02:04 AM
If daddy carries some Wraith DNA too, who knows what that might lead to.

Maybe that's what Teyla meant about Kanan being a natural leader even though he doesn't know it. After all, Charan did say "There have been a few in every generation." when it comes to Athosians who can sense Wraith.

As for what Wraith DNA Kanan would have, by rights it should be exactly the same sort as Teyla's unless there was some kind of 'natural mutation' in his ancestral line.

cabouse18
February 20th, 2008, 01:47 PM
Maybe that's what Teyla meant about Kanan being a natural leader even though he doesn't know it. After all, Charan did say "There have been a few in every generation." when it comes to Athosians who can sense Wraith.

As for what Wraith DNA Kanan would have, by rights it should be exactly the same sort as Teyla's unless there was some kind of 'natural mutation' in his ancestral line.

I think if Kanan had the Wratih gene it would have come out by now....especially in SOW when the wratih ship repsonded to her...she would/could have said something about how she and Kanan had the gene so therefore her ability would have been stronger.....either way I think it would have come out by now, don't ya think?

ciannwn
February 20th, 2008, 02:11 PM
I think if Kanan had the Wratih gene it would have come out by now....especially in SOW when the wratih ship repsonded to her...she would/could have said something about how she and Kanan had the gene so therefore her ability would have been stronger.....either way I think it would have come out by now, don't ya think?

I've just checked the transcript. Teyla had no idea why her abilities with the hive ship were stronger. She didn't associate it with her baby having Wraith DNA from her. She isn't medically trained either so wouldn't know what sort of baby two Athosians with Wraith DNA would produce unless she'd met someone like that amongst her people.

PS: The problem with speculating about the baby is that we're going on what we've been told so far. We have no idea if there's going to be additional information in future episodes. :)

cabouse18
February 20th, 2008, 02:16 PM
I've just checked the transcript. Teyla had no idea why her abilities with the hive ship were stronger. She didn't associate it with her baby having Wraith DNA from her. She isn't medically trained either so wouldn't know what sort of baby two Athosians with Wraith DNA would produce unless she'd met someone like that amongst her people.


So are agreeing or disagreeing with me? or saying something entirely different? I'm sorry; I am not trying to be rude....I am just confused.

GoSpikey
February 20th, 2008, 02:18 PM
I've just checked the transcript. Teyla had no idea why her abilities with the hive ship were stronger. She didn't associate it with her baby having Wraith DNA from her. She isn't medically trained either so wouldn't know what sort of baby two Athosians with Wraith DNA would produce unless she'd met someone like that amongst her people.

It's indeed true that she didn't let Carson go much further than 'You have some Wraith DNA'. It's like it doesn't matter how much it was, cos she's already going all 'I'm part Wraith'...

While it's only this minor little bit. I think Carson said that he didn't even see nothing wrong with her DNA at first, no more different than another normal human, he had to go look in the genes carefully, and then he had to magnify in those parts, just to detect this little bit of DNA.

It's also clearly said that Wraith DNA is more built like the bugs, than humans. So not too much to panic about, but still, it has large consequences. She can now even, almost effortless, fly a Hive... That's some mighty DNA she's got there.

*Secretly hopes she'll keep that ability.*

ciannwn
February 20th, 2008, 02:28 PM
So are agreeing or disagreeing with me? or saying something entirely different? I'm sorry; I am not trying to be rude....I am just confused.

Sorry, I didn't explain myself properly. Going by the transcript she wasn't considering the possibility that the hive ship was responding to her more because of the baby. Even if Kanan turns out to have Wraith DNA too, she wouldn't have wondered if her baby had extra abilities at this point.


She can now even, almost effortless, fly a Hive... That's some mighty DNA she's got there.

Seeing as the baby was supposed to have helped with the Queen, maybe it was helping with the hive ship as well. If so, her ability will go back to normal once the baby's been born.

cabouse18
February 20th, 2008, 02:31 PM
It's indeed true that she didn't let Carson go much further than 'You have some Wraith DNA'. It's like it doesn't matter how much it was, cos she's already going all 'I'm part Wraith'...

While it's only this minor little bit. I think Carson said that he didn't even see nothing wrong with her DNA at first, no more different than another normal human, he had to go look in the genes carefully, and then he had to magnify in those parts, just to detect this little bit of DNA.

It's also clearly said that Wraith DNA is more built like the bugs, than humans. So not too much to panic about, but still, it has large consequences. She can now even, almost effortless, fly a Hive... That's some mighty DNA she's got there.

*Secretly hopes she'll keep that ability.*

Me too!! And she has said that her gift is the strongest among her people...she is always one of the first to sense them coming. This could get interesting...

Now all we have to do is SEND IN THE CLOWNS to take care of the baby and we will be set;) :lol:


Sorry, I didn't explain myself properly. Going by the transcript she wasn't considering the possibility that the hive ship was responding to her more because of the baby. Even if Kanan turns out to have Wraith DNA too, she wouldn't have wondered if her baby had extra abilities at this point.



Seeing as the baby was supposed to have helped with the Queen, maybe it was helping with the hive ship as well. If so, her ability will go back to normal once the baby's been born.

Yes, but knowing full well that YOUR ability is inherited through family lineage HOW could you NOT come to the conclusion that it is b/c of the baby?? I mean c'mon she may not have a medical degree but there are people around her, very smart people, who do!! You mean to tell me none of them questioned any of this more than just John asking her??

Something smells rotten in Denmark!! (no offense to anyone who is from Denmark in here ;) )

GoSpikey
February 20th, 2008, 02:41 PM
Seeing as the baby was supposed to have helped with the Queen, maybe it was helping with the hive ship as well. If so, her ability will go back to normal once the baby's been born.

Yes, I'm absolutely certain that's what happened on the Hive. It's like her ability at least doubled over there. A somewhat more powerful Teyla would be nice, then they could finally fly away those Hives they seem to be trying to take with them for studying, if they don't explode, but it might not happen cos like you said, if the baby's out, so is the power. Two minds were better than one, and that's probably all that happened.

cabouse18
February 20th, 2008, 02:43 PM
Yes, I'm absolutely certain that's what happened on the Hive. It's like her ability at least doubled over there. A somewhat more powerful Teyla would be nice, then they could finally fly away those Hives they seem to be trying to take with them for studying, if they don't explode, but it might not happen cos like you said, if the baby's out, so is the power. Two minds were better than one, and that's probably all that happened.

I have no doubt that the reason her ability was stronger was b/c of the baby....what gets me is that no one seemed to get that or assume it!

GoSpikey
February 20th, 2008, 02:48 PM
Yes, but knowing full well that YOUR ability is inherited through family lineage HOW could you NOT come to the conclusion that it is b/c of the baby?? I mean c'mon she may not have a medical degree but there are people around her, very smart people, who do!! You mean to tell me none of them questioned any of this more than just John asking her??

Something smells rotten in Denmark!! (no offense to anyone who is from Denmark in here ;) )

Maybe she chose to focus on the task at hand, and not on speculating? There were people that needed rescuing, and her worrying about things that are too late to change wasn't going to solve anything, either.

It's silly it didn't come up, especially with someone like Todd standing over her and going all 'Impossible', but that was the script... Nothing you can do about it. We already know that it won't be a mutant baby. Way too little Wraith DNA in him for that. (Unless Michael tampered with Kanaan's DNA... You never know.)

To the peeps in Denmark, it's prolly the smelly cheese they make in Holland! :o

(No offense intended either.)

Degilwen
February 20th, 2008, 02:55 PM
Excuse me If I say this but I don´t believe that this baby is from this Kaanan guy. We have see in Spoils how POWERFUL this baby is... And this is not only from Teyla... I think here is a Wraith the father from this Kid...
And Toddy is the nanny

Wraithsinger
February 20th, 2008, 11:08 PM
I'm inclined to believe Kanaan is not quite what he appears to be...

And I LOVE the image of Todd as the baby's nanny! :lol:

GoSpikey
February 21st, 2008, 02:46 AM
I'm inclined to believe Kanaan is not quite what he appears to be...

And I LOVE the image of Todd as the baby's nanny! :lol:

I somehow doubt Todd is going to do that... :o

cabouse18
February 21st, 2008, 11:39 AM
I somehow doubt Todd is going to do that... :o

Well if he does, we won't need the clowns; he can eat the baby!!!;)

MIZA
February 21st, 2008, 12:26 PM
hey i read something that Rodney will be delivering the baby is that true or he will be present at the birth ?

GoSpikey
February 21st, 2008, 12:29 PM
hey i read something that Rodney will be delivering the baby is that true or he will be present at the birth ?

Er, how can we possibly know that? :P

cabouse18
February 21st, 2008, 01:12 PM
Er, how can we possibly know that? :P

In the spoilers for the Search and Rescue on the main page of the site it has a little ditty about how Rodney hopes Teyla will name the baby after him since he is the one who seemingly delivers it.....But who knows if that is actually true...we have heard no confirmation of it. But then again we haven't heard any denial of it either ;)

GoSpikey
February 21st, 2008, 01:51 PM
In the spoilers for the Search and Rescue on the main page of the site it has a little ditty about how Rodney hopes Teyla will name the baby after him since he is the one who seemingly delivers it.....But who knows if that is actually true...we have heard no confirmation of it. But then again we haven't heard any denial of it either ;)

But, but... Ronon would be a good name for a boy or a girl! :o

cabouse18
February 21st, 2008, 01:52 PM
But, but... Ronon would be a good name for a boy or a girl! :o

Hehehehhe....it would ;)

GoSpikey
February 21st, 2008, 01:53 PM
In the spoilers for the Search and Rescue on the main page of the site it has a little ditty about how Rodney hopes Teyla will name the baby after him since he is the one who seemingly delivers it.....

And wait a minute:

Meredith? :S


:lol:

cabouse18
February 21st, 2008, 03:40 PM
And wait a minute:

Meredith? :S


:lol:

GOD I hope Not!!! :lol:

GoSpikey
February 21st, 2008, 03:47 PM
GOD I hope Not!!! :lol:

Hihi.

Hmm, should go to bed. :o

LOL_93
March 28th, 2008, 01:59 AM
GOD I hope Not!!! :lol:

i think i would faint...

GoSpikey
March 28th, 2008, 02:51 PM
i think i would faint...

Maybe Meri for short, and the next one can be Pippin... :lol:

taffy rose
March 28th, 2008, 04:58 PM
Great discussion on names for the baby but I'm hoping Teyla chooses a name NOT associated with anyone on Atlantis.. I'm hoping she chooses a name like Hunter or Caleb .. I'm much more interested seeing her do that than naming the baby after anyone in particular.


Kimberly

tombombadil
March 28th, 2008, 07:03 PM
We Shall Him It...bazoozoo!!!

GoSpikey
March 29th, 2008, 06:44 AM
Great discussion on names for the baby but I'm hoping Teyla chooses a name NOT associated with anyone on Atlantis.. I'm hoping she chooses a name like Hunter or Caleb .. I'm much more interested seeing her do that than naming the baby after anyone in particular.


Kimberly

Hunter might refer too much to Ronon, lol, but Caleb is nice!

Or, (probably again), Tagan or Tegan, like her father...?

:D