Keller is regular?

[fordpickup&6pack]

Wow, what a distasteful choice.

[Platschu]

Wow, what a distasteful choice.
Wow, what a distasteful fan reaction. :rolleyes:

[jelgate]

Let the good times roll. I like Keller because she has flaws. She is scarad person who was put into the current sitution when she wasn't ready. She seems to have more flaws than Beckett. I just hope the same mistake isn't made that happened when Beckett became a regulae.

[sueKay]

I tried to give Keller a chance, and even though I like Jewel, they're not giving her enough to work with to make the character likeable.

They're writing her as a whiny, miserably, unconfident child.

That has to change if the wider fandom is ever going to become attached to her character.

[Platschu]

Evil idea, but maybe she should kill or hurt someone because of her fault to grow up for the chief doctor position.

[fordpickup&6pack]

Evil idea, but maybe she should kill or hurt someone because of her fault to grow up for the chief doctor position.

Wow, and my post is being judged by this individual.

[stclare]

Regular status does worry me, we had this with Carson i dont want her shoe horned into an ep just becaused she needs alloted screen time.

i also feel she has had plenty to work with in season 4 and have come away not realy wanting to see anymore.

i think its a wait and see how many eps shes featured in next season, and how many eps are based on her charcter.

regular could mean any number of eps couldnt it? it doesnt have to mean the full 20 right?

[Jeffala]

regular could mean any number of eps couldnt it? it doesnt have to mean the full 20 right?

Quite a few regulars missed several episodes of Season 4.



People need to just accept the fact that Keller is a permanent part of Atlantis for at least one more season and that, most likely, after Carson's five or so episodes, he's gone (for at least the season).

Move on.

[Jumper_One]

Quite a few regulars missed several episodes of Season 4.



People need to just accept the fact that Keller is a permanent part of Atlantis for at least one more season

:indeed:


and that, most likely, after Carson's five or so episodes, he's gone (for at least the season).

Move on.

to be honest I think Carson will play an even bigger role in s6 if the show gets renewed

[Killdeer]

People need to just accept the fact that Keller is a permanent part of Atlantis for at least one more season and that, most likely, after Carson's five or so episodes, he's gone (for at least the season).

Move on.


And maybe people should also not jump to the conclusion that disliking Keller has anything to do with Carson being on the show or not.

[stclare]

Quite a few regulars missed several episodes of Season 4.



People need to just accept the fact that Keller is a permanent part of Atlantis for at least one more season and that, most likely, after Carson's five or so episodes, he's gone (for at least the season).

Move on.

If only it was that easy. i didnt mind Carsons departure untill i was introduced to the new doctor and could not help comparing them, it falls way short of the mark for me. i was hoping for someone strong, competent and deffinatley no shipping to be seen.

i accept shes there i have no choice, that doesnt mean i will ever support or like it. Rodders is my fave charcter i know plenty of fans who cant stand him so i get what your saying but some times characters just dont work for you, this is that instance for me.
:)

[sueKay]

And maybe people should also not jump to the conclusion that disliking Keller has anything to do with Carson being on the show or not.

Yup...My disliking Keller is nothing to do with Carson, as I wanted to like the character and tried to like her...I only gave up on her in Quarantine.

Plus Carson can come back as head of Genetics, so the roles of Beckett and Keller are not mutually exclusive.

Keller is an MD, not a Scientist. Carson is both.

[PG15]

If I can tolerate the fandom's incessant whining, I sure as hell as can tolerate Keller's...and anyone and anything else's.

[ToasterOnFire]

Meh, look at it this way:

s1: Carson was recurring
s2: Carson was a regular
s3: Worst. Death. Ever.

TPTB love to repeat themselves. You do the math. :D

[Professor Chaos]

Dr. Fraiser was a recurring character for 7 years and I liked her just fine. Why do the Atlantis writers feel the need to shove Carson & Keller into more scenes than they are needed/wanted?

It's not that I hate Keller, I don't, she just doesn't bring anything new or interesting to the table. I'd much rather see Capt. Porter become a 10+ episode character.

[reddevil18]

Dr. Fraiser was a recurring character for 7 years and I liked her just fine. Why do the Atlantis writers feel the need to shove Carson & Keller into more scenes than they are needed/wanted?

It's not that I hate Keller, I don't, she just doesn't bring anything new or interesting to the table. I'd much rather see Capt. Porter become a 10+ episode character.

Oh, God, I hope Porter turns out to be more annoying than Keller! So I can come here and laugh!

[Ice Wolf]

Dr. Fraiser was a recurring character for 7 years and I liked her just fine. Why do the Atlantis writers feel the need to shove Carson & Keller into more scenes than they are needed/wanted?


Probably cause Mallozzi loves Jewel and she doesn't constructively bother them with petty little concerns like the poor writing of her character.

[stclare]

Oh, God, I hope Porter turns out to be more annoying than Keller! So I can come here and laugh!

Will you bring your Porter-pottie :eek:

[reddevil18]

Will you bring your Porter-pottie :eek:

:lol:

[erb]

to be honest I think Carson will play an even bigger role in s6 if the show gets renewed

Sorry. My faith is gone.


Why do the Atlantis writers feel the need to shove Carson & Keller into more scenes than they are needed/wanted?

While I agree with you on Keller not bringing anything interesting to the table for me, I felt Carson was interesting and should have been utilized more effectively.

On the other hand, many people seem all aflutter about a Ronon/Keller romance and consider that a major selling point of the character.

[Killdeer]

On the other hand, many people seem all aflutter about a Ronon/Keller romance and consider that a major selling point of the character.

urgh. :S

[Pharaoh Atem]

yippie !!!! hopfully this will give TPTB times to fix some of the mistakes there made in season 4

[reddevil18]

urgh. :S

I agree. Keller/Ronon is a dumb idea!

[Jumper_One]

Sorry. My faith is gone.

well I still got some left :P

[stclare]

urgh. :S

someone was handing out baff buckets, shall i put your name down :D

[marielabbott]

On the other hand, many people seem all aflutter about a Ronon/Keller romance and consider that a major selling point of the character.

That scence is where I began to actively dislike the character. I could handle her before that. I was really hoping for more Carson in the 5th season, and less Keller.

[Professor Chaos]

Oh, God, I hope Porter turns out to be more annoying than Keller! So I can come here and laugh!She probably will, but i'm still hopeful. The Stargate writers really seem to have a problem writing for female characters. When I think about it, I really don't like a single female character in the entire SG universe. Well, there's Adria but she was only in like 5 episodes.:S

[maxbo]

I'm stunned that Keller was made a main character - and I liked her, at least I did until Quarantine. Before Quarantine, I had no problem with her as a recurring character, but wasn't interested in her enough to want her to become a regular.

If she was made a main character in order to ship her with Ronon, then I'm very worried about how much Ronon could be damaged to push this ship. :S

[stclare]

I'm stunned that Keller was made a main character - and I liked her, at least I did until Quarantine. Before Quarantine, I had no problem with her as a recurring character, but wasn't interested in her enough to want her to become a regular.

If she was made a main character in order to ship her with Ronon, then I'm very worried about how much Ronon could be damaged to push this ship. :S

it might cause him to loose his hair :ronananime01:

[Pharaoh Atem]

it might cause him to loose his hair :ronananime01:

that wouldn't be a bad thing

[Briangate78]

DAMMIT!! Dr. Keller is a Regular cast member?? :S :mckay:

I was hoping Jewel Staite would of become a regular instead.

[maxbo]

it might cause him to loose his hair :ronananime01:

Well, Jason did cut off his locks, so it's possible. :lol:

[Jumper_One]

DAMMIT!! Dr. Keller is a Regular cast member?? :S :mckay:

I was hoping Jewel Staite would of become a regular instead.

:lol:

[Killdeer]

DAMMIT!! Dr. Keller is a Regular cast member?? :S :mckay:

Did someone say Keller is a regular cast member? I didn't see that. The thread title just says she's a regular, as in regular character, as in Sheppard, McKay, Ronon, and Teyla are also regular characters.


I was hoping Jewel Staite would of become a regular instead.

Actually, I thought before the announcement you were saying that you believed she should stay as recurring. Did I misunderstand you? (Maybe I have you confused with someone else :confused:)

[maxbo]

DAMMIT!! Dr. Keller is a Regular cast member?? :S :mckay:

I was hoping Jewel Staite would of become a regular instead.

Why are you bringing up Jewel when we're discussing the character she portrays - Keller?

[Briangate78]

Meh, look at it this way:

s1: Carson was recurring
s2: Carson was a regular
s3: Worst. Death. Ever.

TPTB love to repeat themselves. You do the math. :D

Yeah. Keller dies in an episode called "Saturday" :p


:indeed:



to be honest I think Carson will play an even bigger role in s6 if the show gets renewed


Quite a few regulars missed several episodes of Season 4.



People need to just accept the fact that Keller is a permanent part of Atlantis for at least one more season and that, most likely, after Carson's five or so episodes, he's gone (for at least the season).

Move on.

What Jumper_one said above. Season 6 will likely have Carson return in an even bigger role. They are not going to drop him again after the fan reaction in Season 3! He could step up to over 10 eps possible

As per Season 6, the odds are in favor.

[Rosehawk]

I'm stunned that Keller was made a main character - and I liked her, at least I did until Quarantine. Before Quarantine, I had no problem with her as a recurring character, but wasn't interested in her enough to want her to become a regular.

If she was made a main character in order to ship her with Ronon, then I'm very worried about how much Ronon could be damaged to push this ship. :S

That was kind of my reaction, I was stunned as well, though I suppose I shouldn't have been with all the promotional exposure she was getting for only being in 8 episodes this year.

I liked her abit more in Quarantine and I don't have a problem with her and Ronon becoming an item. I would like to see more of Ronon then just the anger that his character has most of the time. I think Keller can be an interesting story arch for him and hopefully a window where we will get to explore more of Ronon's backstory.

I think they made her a main character so that they still have a female in charge of something on the show. With Woosley now heading up Atlantis, they got to have a woman in charge of something. :cool:

[Jeffala]

Yeah. Keller dies in an episode called "Saturday" :p

Or maybe "A Month of Sundays" where she's in a time loop and repeatedly dies in different and horrible ways but remembers each time?


My post was probably read as more hostile than it really is, but it's kind of annoying.

"I hate Keller!"

Why?

1. "Because she replaced Carson." Blame Weir.
2. "Because she's whiny." Two words to that: Rodney McKay.
3. "Because she's too young for her position." How old is she? Forget how old the actress is, how old is the character? Keep in mind she got her BA (or BS) before she "could vote".
4. "Because of 'Quarantine'." Why? What was she supposed to do when locked in an exam room? "Put on a hazmat suit." Where's she gonna get it, pull it out of Ronon's butt?

[maxbo]

That was kind of my reaction, I was stunned as well, though I suppose I shouldn't have been with all the promotional exposure she was getting for only being in 8 episodes this year.

I liked her abit more in Quarantine and I don't have a problem with her and Ronon becoming an item. I would like to see more of Ronon then just the anger that his character has most of the time. I think Keller can be an interesting story arch for him and hopefully a window where we will get to explore more of Ronon's backstory.

I think they made her a main character so that they still have a female in charge of something on the show. With Woosley now heading up Atlantis, they got to have a woman in charge of something. :cool:

But we have seen Ronon as more than an angry character and he's had more backstory than both Sheppard and Teyla (at least he did before Outcast and Missing) so I don't see shipping him with Keller as adding anything interesting to his character. In fact, based on what I saw in Quarantine, I'm afraid that TPTB will continue to alter Ronon's character to make him one of Keller's adoring fans in order to prop up Keller.

[Killdeer]

But we have seen Ronon as more than an angry character and he's had more backstory than both Sheppard and Teyla (at least he did before Outcast and Missing) so I don't see shipping him with Keller as adding anything interesting to his character. In fact, based on what I saw in Quarantine, I'm afraid that TPTB will continue to alter Ronon's character to make him one of Keller's adoring fans in order to prop up Keller.

Exactly. The Lana Lang syndrome at work.

[Kales]

Just heard about Keller as a regular. Have to say I'm happy about it:

- I like the actress, so I hope they give her something to do to show her range a bit more
- I love that she's not instantly battle-capable and has issues with that
- I like that the character is genuinely young and portrayed as it (although if they don't develop that angle a bit and give her some growth beyond it, it'll be a waste, annoy me and further convince me that the Stargate writers fall down when trying to write mature female characters)
- I like the romance angle, mainly because for once the writers seem to be showing a pair who like each other, can talk to each other, and might actually act on it. I like the (relative) lack of angst in it. I'd like them to tackle writing a fully-fledged relationship that isn't mainly offscreen.

All IMHO, obv. :)

[reddevil18]

Or maybe "A Month of Sundays" where she's in a time loop and repeatedly dies in different and horrible ways but remembers each time?
:lol:

[Quinn Mallory]

This is not very surprising. I think it's clear TPTB loves Jewel Staite. Hopefully her character will be developed more but in an organic way. With Jewel Staite being relatively well known (particularly in the genre) perhaps this promotion was needed to keep her around?

[cabouse18]

This is not very surprising. I think it's clear TPTB loves Jewel Staite. Hopefully her character will be developed more but in an organic way. With Jewel Staite being relatively well known (particularly in the genre) perhaps this promotion was needed to keep her around?

Because she is well know in the genre she probably comes with a fan base from Firefly which means possibly more viewers for the show...But her character on this show does need to be developed more....hopefully we will see the beginnings of that development in Trio.

[maxbo]

Exactly. The Lana Lang syndrome at work.

Ah, so that's why I've seen so many comments comparing Keller to Lana Lang. This is not good because the quickest way to get me to dislike a character is if other characters are destroyed to make that character look good.

[Kales]

Because she is well know in the genre she probably comes with a fan base from Firefly which means possibly more viewers for the show...But her character on this show does need to be developed more....hopefully we will see the beginnings of that development in Trio.

Agreed. Trio preview:

Jewel Staite says in an interview that Keller "proves herself" in this one to Carter and Rodney. And I did like the fact that she seemed to be shouting at Rodney in mid-whine bc somebody has to (I love Rodney, I just hate when it's decided he should be Whin-eee! for long periods of time. He's smart and capable and I detest regressed characters, particularly for the sake of cheap laughs).

[Killdeer]

Ah, so that's why I've seen so many comments comparing Keller to Lana Lang. This is not good because the quickest way to get me to dislike a character is if other characters are destroyed to make that character look good.

Yes, that would be the reason. :)

[Amalthea]

Geez, with this title, it sounds like she's been taking the All Bran Challenge or something.

I think Keller is loaded with potential. It's been made pretty clear by 11 years of Stargate that the writers/producers have trouble with female characters. I mean, Amanda Tapping has said in interviews that she'd add things into her character during filming that they'd cut out in editing, and it took years for them to be more flexible with Carter's personality. Cut Keller some slack!

[Briangate78]

Geez, with this title, it sounds like she's been taking the All Bran Challenge or something.

I think Keller is loaded with potential. It's been made pretty clear by 11 years of Stargate that the writers/producers have trouble with female characters. I mean, Amanda Tapping has said in interviews that she'd add things into her character during filming that they'd cut out in editing, and it took years for them to be more flexible with Carter's personality. Cut the Keller some slack!

I think with Carson in at least 5 eps next season, there could be some cool chemistry between Keller and Carson.

[Amalthea]

I think with Carson in at least 5 eps next season, there could be some cool chemistry between Keller and Carson.

I couldn't agree more. He may impart some words of wisdom that will weave their way into her character.

I like both of them for different reasons and I don't aim irrational hostility at Keller for replacing Carson.

[Killdeer]

I don't aim irrational hostility at Keller for replacing Carson.

Good for you. Neither do I. As I keep repeating, my frustrations with Keller have absolutely nothing to do with Carson, and would be exactly the same if Carson had never left Atlantis and Keller had been brought on like she was this season. And I strongly suspect the same is true for many others who have problems with her. Actually, I'm guessing she lost far more fans by her little cuddle with Ronon than she ever did by replacing Carson.

[Kales]

I couldn't agree more. He may impart some words of wisdom that will weave their way into her character.

I like both of them for different reasons and I don't aim irrational hostility at Keller for replacing Carson.

It would also be nice to hear more about Carson and Keller- why he picked her, how he knew/knew of her, a little bit of Carson and Keller backstory.

[Briangate78]

It would also be nice to hear more about Carson and Keller- why he picked her, how he knew/knew of her, a little bit of Carson and Keller backstory.

I am still wondering if 5 eps is the max for Carson. They still have not written the entire season.

[Amalthea]

Good for you. Neither do I. As I keep repeating, my frustrations with Keller have absolutely nothing to do with Carson, and would be exactly the same if Carson had never left Atlantis and Keller had been brought on like she was this season. And I strongly suspect the same is true for many others who have problems with her. Actually, I'm guessing she lost far more fans by her little cuddle with Ronon than she ever did by replacing Carson.

You might be onto something there. Of course, that could be out of jealousy more than anything else. LOL



It would also be nice to hear more about Carson and Keller- why he picked her, how he knew/knew of her, a little bit of Carson and Keller backstory.

Now that would be very interesting! I think it could help a lot, actually.

[Kales]

I am still wondering if 5 eps is the max for Carson. They still have not written the entire season.

That's a good point- JM only confirmed

Michael Shanks for two episodes, and said that was all so far. Same could go for Carson, unless they've planned a firm ending for the character in that arc.

[Kales]

You might be onto something there. Of course, that could be out of jealousy more than anything else. LOL

Now that would be very interesting! I think it could help a lot, actually.

*innocent* I may be a shipper, but the Me/Ronon cause still has my heart. It's just because we haven't met yet ;)

It might establish her a bit more solidly, I think - and it'd be nice continuity from her conversation with Elizabeth as well in s3. She and Carson are so very different that I'd love to know how they met/heard of each other, and as has been said already, and maybe even some stuff about Keller's credentials and previous posts.

[Ice Wolf]

Geez, with this title, it sounds like she's been taking the All Bran Challenge or something.

I think Keller is loaded with potential. It's been made pretty clear by 11 years of Stargate that the writers/producers have trouble with female characters. I mean, Amanda Tapping has said in interviews that she'd add things into her character during filming that they'd cut out in editing, and it took years for them to be more flexible with Carter's personality. Cut Keller some slack!

Lucky Amanda, one of their other leading ladies wanted them to write a bit better and it didnt work out so well :(, But then again Amanda had a different show runner on SG-1

[fordpickup&6pack]

Good for you. Neither do I. As I keep repeating, my frustrations with Keller have absolutely nothing to do with Carson, and would be exactly the same if Carson had never left Atlantis and Keller had been brought on like she was this season. And I strongly suspect the same is true for many others who have problems with her. Actually, I'm guessing she lost far more fans by her little cuddle with Ronon than she ever did by replacing Carson.

I agree. The producers seem to have a fairly clear idea of what type of character, in their mind, sells well... the kitschier, the better. Oh. well.

[McSwift]

Wow, what a distasteful choice.


Definitely. Boo-urns!!!!

Like seriously look at the new cast changes:

- Richard Woolsey as the Leader of the Atlantis Expedition. Oh come on. Couldn't someone else better than Weir or Carter be it? Like Col. Cawdwell (he always wanted that position) OR Daniel Jackson (same par as Weir).


- Allison Porter, I can't really judge her. But will she be someone who could "potentially" replace Sheppard. Like seriously. We saw KEY cast members got wiped out of the main cast (Weir, Ford, Beckket, etc).


- Dr. Beckett coming back more? I like Carson Beckett, but if you kill off a character in style (Sunday is by far a better episode than SG1 Heros Part II), you shouldn't bring the character back again. The only way I can see that happening is if this new Beckett is a clone.

[ToasterOnFire]

Or maybe "A Month of Sundays" where she's in a time loop and repeatedly dies in different and horrible ways but remembers each time?
Yes please! They can call it "Any Given Sunday". :D


1. "Because she replaced Carson." Blame Weir.
I blame TPTB, actually. Or the exploding tumor. :D

2. "Because she's whiny." Two words to that: Rodney McKay.
But Rodney brings the snark. Keller brings... *crickets*

3. "Because she's too young for her position." How old is she? Forget how old the actress is, how old is the character? Keep in mind she got her BA (or BS) before she "could vote".
Age ain't nothing but a number, but when did she get her medical, hands-on experience? Please tell me she got her medical, hands-on experience. :S

4. "Because of 'Quarantine'." Why? What was she supposed to do when locked in an exam room? "Put on a hazmat suit." Where's she gonna get it, pull it out of Ronon's butt?
Oh thank you so much, I now have to go wipe that image of their sex life from my brain... :mckay:

[Sarge300491]

the fact is its impossible for "everyone" to like the changes, me i like the fact keller will be a regular, <snip....refresh yourself on the rules about respecting others....and dissing thier opinions is not respect>

[Colonel Dixon]

Wow, by my count, that puts the total number of Atlantis' regulars over SG-1's!
SG-1: Jack, Sam, Daniel, Teal'c, Hammond, Jonas, Cam, Landry, Vala (9 for 10 seasons)
Atlantis: John, Teyla, Rodney, Weir, Ford, Carson, Ronon, Sam, Kellar, Woolsey (10 for 5 seasons)
SG-1 hadn't even changed its regular cast by its fifth season, and I think that was definitely one of its strengths. Hopefully this doesn't show to be a weakness for Atlantis.

[Aethon]

I thought she already was... oh well. It's fine with me as long as she tuffens up and stabs somebody :P

[Fenrir Foxz]

I thought she already was... oh well. It's fine with me as long as she tuffens up and stabs somebody :P

:lol:

That would be a funny turn for the character... maybe she'll take up sparing with Ronon, gain some skill and end up kicking some badguy ass :D

[metabog]

Every news I've heard about season 5 until now has been GREAT for me, including this. I can't wait!

[sueKay]

Good for you. Neither do I. As I keep repeating, my frustrations with Keller have absolutely nothing to do with Carson, and would be exactly the same if Carson had never left Atlantis and Keller had been brought on like she was this season. And I strongly suspect the same is true for many others who have problems with her. Actually, I'm guessing she lost far more fans by her little cuddle with Ronon than she ever did by replacing Carson.

Yup...she sure did

And I'd green again if I could, but I'm all out!

[Buck32]

Surpised? no dissapointed? yes, Keller is a useless character, to make an audience like a character they have to have a personality and keller does not i'm sure it's not the actresses fault just poor writing which has actually been a mainstay of season 4.

[Buck32]

Wow, what a distasteful choice.

Let's just hope she doesn't get too many of her own episodes.

[doylefan22]

Can't say I'm exactly excited. At best I've so far found her a mild irritation but generally I find her just beyond bland. She's a functional character there to be 'the doctor' when one is required but she just isn't interesting. And there's so little warmth in her characterisation for some reason. She's not well done at all so I don't see how making her a regular is going to improve that.

What surprises me is when the press releases etc keep particularly saying how loved by the fans she is because if they think that's true then they're certainly not looking in the same places as me. It seems that some of fandom really doesn't like her, some like her but most really think she's a bland waste of a character.

I just hope she's more bearable in Trio than she was in Missing. Teyla was an absolute saint not to deck her.

[Jeff O'Connor]

As much as I don't mind Keller, and typically make it a point to stay out of at least most character opinion debates...


Teyla was an absolute saint not to deck her.

...yes, yes she was.

[stclare]

Can't say I'm exactly excited. At best I've so far found her a mild irritation but generally I find her just beyond bland. She's a functional character there to be 'the doctor' when one is required but she just isn't interesting. And there's so little warmth in her characterisation for some reason. She's not well done at all so I don't see how making her a regular is going to improve that.

What surprises me is when the press releases etc keep particularly saying how loved by the fans she is because if they think that's true then they're certainly not looking in the same places as me. It seems that some of fandom really doesn't like her, some like her but most really think she's a bland waste of a character.

I just hope she's more bearable in Trio than she was in Missing. Teyla was an absolute saint not to deck her.

really i havent seen any press about just promo photo's everywhere!!

(points to your location) you will have to wait awhile im already in Rodneys lap :P

[atfan]

Can't say I'm exactly excited. At best I've so far found her a mild irritation but generally I find her just beyond bland. She's a functional character there to be 'the doctor' when one is required but she just isn't interesting. And there's so little warmth in her characterisation for some reason. She's not well done at all so I don't see how making her a regular is going to improve that.

What surprises me is when the press releases etc keep particularly saying how loved by the fans she is because if they think that's true then they're certainly not looking in the same places as me. It seems that some of fandom really doesn't like her, some like her but most really think she's a bland waste of a character.

I just hope she's more bearable in Trio than she was in Missing. Teyla was an absolute saint not to deck her.
I so agree with you I was willing to give her character a chance but missing completely turned me off. No military type training given when you are posted in what is essentially a combat area is ridiculous. The military would have never posted someone in Atlantis with no training and the SGC had a training program in place but for some reason she didn't go to it? TPTB didn't make Carson into a wimp but then he is male. Plus it made Carter look incompetent that she would send someone off-world with no preparation she knew better. Heck even Felger,Combs (SG-1 "The Other Guys")had better training than Kelller and to send her without any weapon was not only dangerous but stupid.

[Bonbon]

i think lorne would've been a much better choice to promote rather then keller.
keller is a flat character and i think lorne easily has an interesting history and his character reacts entertainingly to a lot of situations. unlike keller; (cry, self doubt, boohoo, etc).

[GateLadyM]

I thought for sure TPTB would get rid of her in season 5. Keller is a horrid creation and I really can't stand to watch much of her. Maybe if she wasn't a useless whiner, or self-centered, crying about all those parties she missed. *shudders to think about her*

Making her a reg is a mistake, IMO. I thought the Woolsey choice was bad, but this just compounds it.

[doylefan22]

I think they attempted to make her more sympathetic in Quarantine as well as trying to explain her age. Unfortunately it back fired and just made her less sympathetic - it was a bit of 'poor little rich girl' syndrome. People aren't exactly going to be sympathetic when you're big issue in life is 'Oh woe is me I was so much better than everyone else that I was an outcast and didn't get to go to parties'. Besides, in a way they've already done that with Rodney except he didn't exactly want pity for it.

[GateLadyM]

Rodney is acceptably obnoxious because he is smart, and knows it, and makes sure everyone else knows it. I just love him.

Keller is smart, but wants everyone to feel sorry for her. Its annoying and the more she opens her mouth, the less I like her.

[Kales]

I think they attempted to make her more sympathetic in Quarantine as well as trying to explain her age. Unfortunately it back fired and just made her less sympathetic - it was a bit of 'poor little rich girl' syndrome. People aren't exactly going to be sympathetic when you're big issue in life is 'Oh woe is me I was so much better than everyone else that I was an outcast and didn't get to go to parties'. Besides, in a way they've already done that with Rodney except he didn't exactly want pity for it.


Rodney is acceptably obnoxious because he is smart, and knows it, and makes sure everyone else knows it. I just love him.

Keller is smart, but wants everyone to feel sorry for her. Its annoying and the more she opens her mouth, the less I like her.

I'm sure there's an anti-thread for posts that are pure character bashing, but it seems a bit off topic in here. I'm not a mod, so it's only an observation, and of course I like Keller so would rather not read such pure hate on a discussion thread.

[FoolishPleasure]

I'm sure there's an anti-thread for posts that are pure character bashing, but it seems a bit off topic in here. I'm not a mod, so it's only an observation, and of course I like Keller so would rather not read such pure hate on a discussion thread.

This thread is to discuss Keller as a reg - pro AND con.

I don't like her either and I also think its a mistake to make her a reg.

[Blower'sGate]

I'm sure there's an anti-thread for posts that are pure character bashing, but it seems a bit off topic in here. I'm not a mod, so it's only an observation, and of course I like Keller so would rather not read such pure hate on a discussion thread.

Seconded! Let's remain civilised. It's a discussion thread, not the bashing thread. You can say you don't like a character but try to remain nice so the people who happen to love the character don't have to read such mean and immature comments. Same thing applies to the people who love Keller to no end, just say you love the character and don't try to make the ones who dislike her lover her. :)

Keller regular in s5? I'm all for it. I don't particularly like Keller but she's cute and doesn't do any harm to the show imo.

[Kales]

This thread is to discuss Keller as a reg - pro AND con.

I don't like her either and I also think its a mistake to make her a reg.

And that's your opinion, which I fully support your right to hold even though mine is different. It'd be a boring discussion otherwise. However, it's a discussion. That means there's a line. Saying you don't like her is one thing, aggressive bashing (like some of the posts) is another - and the reason we have anti-threads. Also, bashing isn't argument or discussion, it's pure hate. You can't discuss that unless you share it.

[FoolishPleasure]

And that's your opinion, which I fully support your right to hold even though mine is different. It'd be a boring discussion otherwise. However, it's a discussion. That means there's a line. Saying you don't like her is one thing, aggressive bashing (like some of the posts) is another - and the reason we have anti-threads. Also, bashing isn't argument or discussion, it's pure hate. You can't discuss that unless you share it.

When people say they don't want Keller to be a reg because she is a whiny butt, crybaby, that is their opinion of the character. It isn't bashing to them, its how they feel. You want to know "why" they don't like the character, so they say why, and you say its bashing?

If you say Keller is beautiful, shy, has incredible potential, is smart, best doctor who ever lived, etc. some people are going to think you are in la-la-land, and tell you to find a "pro" thread, but you are thinking, "I like her because. . . ." and that point is okay.

I thought this thread was about Keller as a reg, pro and con, and if someone's reason for not wanting her as a reg is because she whines so much, I wouldn't consider that bashing at all. Its a point of view.

All views should be allowed in here, otherwise we are back to the pro/anti-thread issue again. Seriously, if someone thinks a poster is out of line, just report the post to the mods and let them decide.

[sueKay]

Kales:

Actually, bashing is an expression of an opinion, and it can quite often be an informed opinion.

Opinions are the basis for discussion.

If there was no character 'bashing' there would be no character discussion as such.

You'd have two camps - the ones that like Keller and the ones that don't care.

This would in turn lead to a one-sided debate.

If you want to properly discuss Keller, you have to put up with opinions you might be vehemently opposed to.

Besides, about the only good argument I've heard in support of Keller is "She's pretty" which I think is a shallow reason for wanting a character on a show.

But again, that's my opinion, which I will put forward to keep this discussion going.

[Suzotchka]

And that's your opinion, which I fully support your right to hold even though mine is different. It'd be a boring discussion otherwise. However, it's a discussion. That means there's a line. Saying you don't like her is one thing, aggressive bashing (like some of the posts) is another - and the reason we have anti-threads. Also, bashing isn't argument or discussion, it's pure hate. You can't discuss that unless you share it.

Actually, there are no more anti-threads allowed for S5. All threads in the S5 folder are discussion.
So for better or worse, people on both sides have to deal with it. If a post is out of place, report it and a mod will decide.

Keller is whiny and really isn't deserving of being CMO. She's not a leader.

[maxbo]

I think they attempted to make her more sympathetic in Quarantine as well as trying to explain her age. Unfortunately it back fired and just made her less sympathetic - it was a bit of 'poor little rich girl' syndrome. People aren't exactly going to be sympathetic when you're big issue in life is 'Oh woe is me I was so much better than everyone else that I was an outcast and didn't get to go to parties'. Besides, in a way they've already done that with Rodney except he didn't exactly want pity for it.

I agree that Quarantine was supposed to make her more sympathetic, but that it backfired. Before Quarantine, I liked her, but after Quarantine I would rather see less of her - much, much less of her. She came across as a character that I was supposed to respect (and love) simply because that was the intent of TPTB, not because she had earned it.

Last night, I decided to watch Quarantine again thinking that I may have been too hard on her after I watched it when it first aired. Big mistake because she comes off even worse upon second viewing. In addition to her incessant it's-all-about-me whining - Ronon was used to prop her up at the expense of his character in every scene he had with her.

I'm holding out hope that they get it right in Trio and redeem Keller for me. If not, then Season 5 is going to be long and painful - given TPTB's determination to make the audience love her, no matter matter what.

[doylefan22]

I'm sure there's an anti-thread for posts that are pure character bashing, but it seems a bit off topic in here. I'm not a mod, so it's only an observation, and of course I like Keller so would rather not read such pure hate on a discussion thread.

I did NOT simply character bash. As far as I'm concerned, bashing would be 'Keller sucks! She's so ugly! Look at her stupid face! I hate the way she moves her eyebrows!' etc....

What I actually did is state what I don't think is done well about the character, the mistakes made in writing her and why she is relatively unpopular.

In a thread discussing the merits of Keller as a regular it seems pertinent to discuss whether or not you like her as a character and what she brings to the show so I hardly see how it is off topic.

[CazzBlade]

I agree that Quarantine was supposed to make her more sympathetic, but that it backfired. Before Quarantine, I liked her, but after Quarantine I would rather see less of her - much, much less of her. She came across as a character that I was supposed to respect (and love) simply because that was the intent of TPTB, not because she had earned it.

I'm holding out hope that they get it right in Trio and redeem Keller for me. If not, then Season 5 is going to be long and painful - given TPTB's determination to make the audience love her, no matter matter what.

Totaly agree, I thought she was sweet before Quarantine so didn't really mind her and I knew about the plans for Ronon and Keller before the ep and they didn't bother me but it just didn't work. Most of that ep was cringe worthy and t put me off Keller.

I'm hoping that Trio will be different, more like Missing cos I liked her in that. I think my opinion on Keller becoming a regular is gonna depend on Trio, at the moment I'm like, well I didn't mind her as recurring, not sure she'd work as regular.

[magictrick]

Not sure on my opinions of Keller yet. She does seem awfully whiny in certain episodes, but I guess that could be attributed to the fact that she's a doctor and hasn't been exposed to such situations before.

But honestly, if you're selected as a doctor to go to another galaxy, you should really be someone who is prepared to deal with such situations. Beckett seemed like a much stronger character, who fit in better on Atlantis.

I hope in the next episode the writer decide expose the side of her that can be "strong".

[atfan]

It would also be nice to hear more about Carson and Keller- why he picked her, how he knew/knew of her, a little bit of Carson and Keller backstory.
I agree because so far while a competent doctor I have to wonder how and why she wound up at Atlantis but to be fair this is only her first season as a character so hopefully they will give us more to go on and more to like I loved her in Firefly I don't have a problem with the actress just the character.
Too unsure of herself and too whiny although it does seem to be getting better.

[atfan]

Totaly agree, I thought she was sweet before Quarantine so didn't really mind her and I knew about the plans for Ronon and Keller before the ep and they didn't bother me but it just didn't work. Most of that ep was cringe worthy and t put me off Keller.

I'm hoping that Trio will be different, more like Missing cos I liked her in that. I think my opinion on Keller becoming a regular is gonna depend on Trio, at the moment I'm like, well I didn't mind her as recurring, not sure she'd work as regular.
They seem to have a problem with any ship in general in Atlantis I mean Rodney and his year-long girlfriend had maybe 3 scenes together and he was going to ask her to marry him? At least have some kind of relationship on screen Sheppard and McKay have more chemistry and I am not a slasher but I can see it. Ronan and Keller wouldn't have been so bad but they are just getting to know each other kissing that early just seems wierd they weren't even on a date. I don't mind ship if done properly and logically. Subtle ship works best in my opinion some good looks and touching plus talking to each other but in off-duty situations or in a non-work situation makes it more believable -IMHO

[Mitchell82]

Personally I like that she is a regular now. She has been a great replacement for Carson IMO. I'm thrilled that Carson will be in season 5 as well however I'm thrilled that Keller got promoted as well.

[dana_carter_sgx]

Let the good times roll. I like Keller because she has flaws. She is scarad person who was put into the current sitution when she wasn't ready. She seems to have more flaws than Beckett. I just hope the same mistake isn't made that happened when Beckett became a regulae.

You think so? :beckettanime14: Well, in my opinion Beckett was a much more flawed and even darker character, something we could see when the Michael arc began to unfold.
Or maybe it's just that Keller doesn't seem to be a very good character. And I don't have this opinion for being a Beckett fan (that I am, no need to deny it), but for the way the Keller character is written/developed. I don't dislike her, but she's not a kind of character whose personality or demeanor you're likely to be attracted to. She's too bland and generally uninteresting, for my liking.

That been said, I only hope they give her a really good arc and character development this new season, or having made her a regular would be a huge mistake. If it didn't work for Beckett, initially being a more developed and charismatic character, I trully fear what TPTB are going to make with all this :weiranime33:

And as Proffesor Chaos said:

Dr. Fraiser was a recurring character for 7 years and I liked her just fine. Why do the Atlantis writers feel the need to shove Carson & Keller into more scenes than they are needed/wanted?
Great example, my friend :zelenka25:

[Skydiver]

if you see a post that you think is bashing the actor, you don't have to deal with it, you report it to the mods adn we will

I will say, 'keller sucks' is not actor bashing. Jewel sucks is.

I don't like keller isn't, Jewel couldn't act her way out of a wet sack, is

[Skydiver]

this is also a discussion thread..so ALL points of view are welcome.

someone can say 'keller sucks' and it'd be on topic...not really conducive to discussion, but on topic none the less

[atfan]

this is also a discussion thread..so ALL points of view are welcome.

someone can say 'keller sucks' and it'd be on topic...not really conducive to discussion, but on topic none the less

well said I am one that likes the actor but not the direction the character seems to be heading but it is just the first season with only a few episodes to go for information so I will still give her a chance.:)

[Madeleine]

I'm sure there's an anti-thread for posts that are pure character bashing, but it seems a bit off topic in here. I'm not a mod, so it's only an observation, and of course I like Keller so would rather not read such pure hate on a discussion thread.

I'm afraid it's not off topic. And I sympathise with you becazuse I know that it's not terribly good fun to read posts bashing a character you like. I'm afraid though that you'll have to put up with it, unless you fancy putting people on ignore if you know you'll be disagreeing with them.

We have no rules about 'bashing' of characters in discussion threads, because frankly there's nothing wrong with it. At least, not morally wrong. We forbid bashing of anyone real, for obvious reasons, but bashing a pretend person is permissible here.

I don't tend to bash characters. Unless they are Landry, Lucius, Vala's Dad or Felger. They jolly well deserve it ;)

[Skydiver]

the key is, first of all, leave the actor out of it. Jewel is just a young woman doing her job. End of story.

Now to discuss keller, it isn't the best element of discussion to have nothing but 'she sucks' 'she rocks'. ok, yeah, so, but therefore????

why does she suck? why does she rock? what do you like/hate about her that has formed your opinion??

THAT'S discussion.

[Amalthea]

I disagree that she came across as a "poor little rich girl." When she was relaying her story about not going to parties, etc it was to demonstrate that she wasn't socially "with it" as a child. The point was to show that school has been her life all her life. I don't think she was trying to have a pity party at all, she was just telling Ronon about who she was and how she is trying to change that. She obviously doesn't want to be socially awkward anymore and it's important to her to be more brave and go out and do things instead of locking herself up in her room with her books. I think that's commendable. It's really hard to try new things as an adult when you never tried to do anything outside the box as a child.

[maxbo]

Totaly agree, I thought she was sweet before Quarantine so didn't really mind her and I knew about the plans for Ronon and Keller before the ep and they didn't bother me but it just didn't work. Most of that ep was cringe worthy and t put me off Keller.

Yes, cringe worthy is a good way to describe those scenes and they were even worst upon second viewing. :S In their attempt to make the audience love her, TPTB missed a great opportunity to flesh out Keller.


I'm hoping that Trio will be different, more like Missing cos I liked her in that. I think my opinion on Keller becoming a regular is gonna depend on Trio, at the moment I'm like, well I didn't mind her as recurring, not sure she'd work as regular.

I also liked her in Missing. Yes, she was whiny, but I enjoyed her because she had a good reason to whine and because Teyla wasn't written as a a Keller cheerleader in a misguided attempt to make Jennifer more sympathetic to the audience. I love that Teyla was firm with her and didn't enable her whining. If Ronon had been written in-character in Quarantine, then he wouldn't have put up with her whining either and this could have led to scenes far more interesting than what aired. Instead of getting in-character Ronon, I felt like I was watching a motivational speaker wanna-be.

[FireCat]

I wasn't crazy about her at first, she was so-so, but "Missing" killed her for me. Here she was with cannibals running after her, and all she could do was scream and cry. *headdesk* She has just gone straight downhill ever since. The embarrassing attempt at romance with Ronon was the nail in the coffin. I don't want her as recurring, much less a reg. The less I see of her, the better, IMO.

[blue-skyz]

It seems the IOA must have been desperate for an ordinary MD, so they took the first available one and skipped the stringent screening and training process. (Or maybe they just looked for the first cute chick that was semi-known in sci-fi circles.)

Except for Missing (which, IMO, is the second only to The Real World as the worst episode of all), I have tried to just accept Keller as the doctor and hope there isn’t much need for one. A doctor is not needed in many episodes, that was the problem with Beckett being made a regular character. It seems Keller is going to be standing around looking uncomfortable and out of place and making comments on stuff she knows nothing about a lot next season. :rolleyes:

Keller’s existence on Atlantis is insulting to every working woman and to every member of Atlantis who understood the working environment and has been willing to accept the situation, suck it up and get on with it. The S4 episodes 1-15 incarnation of Keller would never have made it to Atlantis. I just hope TPTB have a viable plan for turning the woe-is-me teenage doctor into a functioning, believable adult.

Keller’s comparison to McKay is spurious. McKay came with the original group. He would not have gone through the screening process that would have been put in place later. Even so, McKay has rare, specialized knowledge and abilities that are vital to the survival of Atlantis, he would have a right to a lot of leeway in the standards required of others with more ordinary talents.

[atfan]

It seems the IOA must have been desperate for an ordinary MD, so they took the first available one and skipped the stringent screening and training process. (Or maybe they just looked for the first cute chick that was semi-known in sci-fi circles.)

Except for Missing (which, IMO, is the second only to The Real World as the worst episode of all), I have tried to just accept Keller as the doctor and hope there isn’t much need for one. A doctor is not needed in many episodes, that was the problem with Beckett being made a regular character. It seems Keller is going to be standing around looking uncomfortable and out of place and making comments on stuff she knows nothing about a lot next season. :rolleyes:

Keller’s existence on Atlantis is insulting to every working woman and to every member of Atlantis who understood the working environment and has been willing to accept the situation, suck it up and get on with it. The S4 episodes 1-15 incarnation of Keller would never have made it to Atlantis. I just hope TPTB have a viable plan for turning the woe-is-me teenage doctor into a functioning, believable adult.

Keller’s comparison to McKay is spurious. McKay came with the original group. He would not have gone through the screening process that would have been put in place later. Even so, McKay has rare, specialized knowledge and abilities that are vital to the survival of Atlantis, he would have a right to a lot of leeway in the standards required of others with more ordinary talents.


exactly my point as well there was established rules and training in place at the SGC how did she manage to bypass it? A medical doctor is easy to find and what is her specialty --- at least Janet was infectious diseases I don't recall any mention of what kind of medical doctor she is. I hope next season we get her story ---professional one and her reasons for going to Atlantis because right now I'm thinking influential daddy or political family.

[marielabbott]

Just curious--is a screening process talked about in SG-1 (didn't watch that show)? I don't remember anything about one discussed on SGA. What are the requirements?

[atfan]

The part I remember was when they introduced the idea of prospective candidates for the SGC -- exact name escapes me but the Academy recruits were put through the paces with SG-1. Also it is mentioned by Jack and Daniel several times during various episodes of SG-1 about training weapons handling etc. Even Janet --aka Hathor episode had weapons training and she was a doctor as well. Daniel had to attend the training along with other civilains before he could go off-world season one and two mostly but it continued throughout the series.

[maxbo]

Just curious--is a screening process talked about in SG-1 (didn't watch that show)? I don't remember anything about one discussed on SGA. What are the requirements?

I can't remember if a screening process was ever directly mentioned, but there was at least one episode (Proving Ground) dedicated to showing the training of those chosen for stargate duty.

Hmmm, I just realized that Trio should be Keller's last episode this season so it's even more imperative that TPTB leave me with a decent impression of this character before Season 5, otherwise I'm going to begin Season 5 dreading her presence even more than I do now. :S

[Killdeer]

Hmmm, I just realized that Trio should be Keller's last episode this season so it's even more imperative that TPTB leave me with a decent impression of this character before Season 5, otherwise I'm going to begin Season 5 dreading her presence even more than I do now. :S


No, Keller is in Kindred 1 & 2 and The Last Man. She is in 11 episodes this season (one as repli!Keller).


I hope next season we get her story ---professional one and her reasons for going to Atlantis because right now I'm thinking influential daddy or political family.

While I see where you're coming from, I kinda hope we don't, because so far every attempt to create backstory for this character has backfired badly IMO. I think they just need to focus on having her do her job and developing professional relationships with the rest of the crew. I say professional because I sincerely hope we don't see anymore of the type of "relationship building" that we saw in Quarantine. :S

[Mitchell82]

I wasn't crazy about her at first, she was so-so, but "Missing" killed her for me. Here she was with cannibals running after her, and all she could do was scream and cry. *headdesk* She has just gone straight downhill ever since. The embarrassing attempt at romance with Ronon was the nail in the coffin. I don't want her as recurring, much less a reg. The less I see of her, the better, IMO.

I disagree. She was very good in the eps preceding Missing and very good in Missing. I can't blame her for acting the way she did.

[marielabbott]

I can't remember if a screening process was ever directly mention, but there was at least one episode (Proven Ground) dedicated to showing the training of those chosen for stargate duty.

Hmmm, I just realized that Trio should be Keller's last episode this season so it's even more imperative that TPTB leave me with a decent impression of this character before Season 5, otherwise I'm going to begin Season 5 dreading her presence even more than I do now. :S

Thanks...do you remember what kind of training they were given? I'm just curious, since in Missing Keller never mentioned any type of survival training, just camp experience as a child. I know she's stationed in a city, but they've had to evacuate to Alpha sites before, and I can't imagine them not giving everyone some basic training of some sort. That was one of the issues I had with her in Missing. She was unbelievably ill-prepared, I thought.

[doylefan22]

I disagree. She was very good in the eps preceding Missing and very good in Missing. I can't blame her for acting the way she did.

That was the episode I found her most irritating in when she hadn't bothered me too much before. He reaction just annoyed me - how can someone who reacted that way be allowed on potentially dangerous off world missions?

That episode made me unsympathetic towards the character because she showed many negative character traits and few likeabilities. I really don't understand what the writers were trying to achieve there because as I've said in previous posts, making a character's story one of 'I was so smart and missed out socially even though I seem to have a mummy and daddy who pandered to me' isn't exactly something which is going to endear most viewers. It's more like 'get over yourself love, if that's all you've got to worry about then be grateful'. I don't understand why they even tried to bother giving her a difficult background and I think many would have liked her more if she said 'I was happy, had a good youth and recognise how lucky I am'.

[Mitchell82]

That was the episode I found her most irritating in when she hadn't bothered me too much before. He reaction just annoyed me - how can someone who reacted that way be allowed on potentially dangerous off world missions?
She was young, and naive about what she was getting herself into. It was a huge development episode for her IMO and she has grown due to that.


That episode made me unsympathetic towards the character because she showed many negative character traits and few likeabilities. I really don't understand what the writers were trying to achieve there because as I've said in previous posts, making a character's story one of 'I was so smart and missed out socially even though I seem to have a mummy and daddy who pandered to me' isn't exactly something which is going to endear most viewers. It's more like 'get over yourself love, if that's all you've got to worry about then be grateful'. I don't understand why they even tried to bother giving her a difficult background and I think many would have liked her more if she said 'I was happy, had a good youth and recognise how lucky I am'.
I disagree. She was scared for obvious reasons and IMO reacted realistically for someone in her position.

[atfan]

That was the episode I found her most irritating in when she hadn't bothered me too much before. He reaction just annoyed me - how can someone who reacted that way be allowed on potentially dangerous off world missions?

That episode made me unsympathetic towards the character because she showed many negative character traits and few likeabilities. I really don't understand what the writers were trying to achieve there because as I've said in previous posts, making a character's story one of 'I was so smart and missed out socially even though I seem to have a mummy and daddy who pandered to me' isn't exactly something which is going to endear most viewers. It's more like 'get over yourself love, if that's all you've got to worry about then be grateful'. I don't understand why they even tried to bother giving her a difficult background and I think many would have liked her more if she said 'I was happy, had a good youth and recognise how lucky I am'.

I agree I was actually looking forward to seeing her again on TV but Keller just annoys me and I wonder how in the world she got posted to Atlantis this is one of the biggest plot holes in season three she just kinda appeared one episode then Sunday then Weir asking or rather telling Keller she was taking Carson's spot.
I understand her being scared when her life is in danger but whinning is not going to help and could even hurt since you will be distracted like she was. Granted after the whole ankle thing it was a little better but still annoying. Teyla getting upset with her was cool though I think she should have hit her maybe she would have realized how silly she was acting.

[maxbo]

No, Keller is in Kindred 1 & 2 and The Last Man. She is in 11 episodes this season (one as repli!Keller).

11 episodes. Wow - for some reason I thought it was 8. I suppose I should be relieved that the recovery of Keller's character (in my eyes) this season doesn't rest on just one episode. Unfortunately, now I'm afraid that I'm going to notice all those little annoying things about how the character is written that I had overlooked before Quarantine.


While I see where you're coming from, I kinda hope we don't, because so far every attempt to create backstory for this character has backfired badly IMO. I think they just need to focus on having her do her job and developing professional relationships with the rest of the crew. I say professional because I sincerely hope we don't see anymore of the type of "relationship building" that we saw in Quarantine. :S

I agree, at this point, I really don't need to see any more focused Keller backstory - enough already! So far, she's had more direct contact with Sam than Teyla has and she's had more time with Teyla than Rodney has. There is something so wrong about this. Although she didn't ruin Missing for me, I can understand why others found her irritating because she was in almost non-stop whine mode throughout the episode. And, the less said about her development in Quarantine the better. TPTB should concentrate on showing her interacting with others while doing her job and let her develop naturally.


Thanks...do you remember what kind of training they were given? I'm just curious, since in Missing Keller never mentioned any type of survival training, just camp experience as a child. I know she's stationed in a city, but they've had to evacuate to Alpha sites before, and I can't imagine them not giving everyone some basic training of some sort. That was one of the issues I had with her in Missing. She was unbelievably ill-prepared, I thought.

In Proving Ground Jack trained cadets to prepare them for how to deal with life and death situations without panicking. The training was very intense and the cadets understood that if they failed, then they were out of the program. And, I remember a scene from Hathor when Janet mentioned that she had training with weapons. I don't know if this training was SGC ordered but Janet was always pretty professional when faced with security related danger so I wouldn't be surprised.

From what I can remember, Keller would never have made it to Atlantis based on how she totally lost it in Missing. I don't blame her for being terrified, but if she had passed a training program before arriving in Atlantis then she should have immediately realized that she needed to follow Teyla's orders and be as quiet as possible. I thought her worst moment was when she refused to cross that bridge and then yelled across it for Teyla to come back for her. When she did that, she made Teyla's job of trying to protect them that much harder.

[PG15]

Surpised? no dissapointed? yes, Keller is a useless character, to make an audience like a character they have to have a personality and keller does not i'm sure it's not the actresses fault just poor writing which has actually been a mainstay of season 4.

I agree.

Doctors are indeed useless.

EDIT: And just so this post isn't just for snarking:


Yazid writes: “Why take Dr Keller in Sheppard’s team and not Major Lorne?”

Answer: There are no plans to put Dr. Keller on Sheppard’s team.


http://josephmallozzi.wordpress.com/2008/02/07/february-7-2008-as-the-first-day-of-production-creeps-ever-closer/

[chevron3]

why is every1 so anti-keller??? i admit she's not my fav character, but i think it will b interesting 2 c her as a regular member in s5. i think her character will get better.

[cabouse18]

why is every1 so anti-keller??? i admit she's not my fav character, but i think it will b interesting 2 c her as a regular member in s5. i think her character will get better.

I wouldn't say I am ani-Keller....I just think that her character needs to be developed. Granted there are times I feel like her character does just take up space; ya know there is no substance. But again, if they develop the character that should change.

[nx01a]

They're writing her as a whiny, miserably, unconfident child. That has to change if the wider fandom is ever going to become attached to her character.
She's a blonde hottie who can fulfill your nurse fetish. What more does her character need, the writers think...

[nx01a]

I wouldn't say I am ani-Keller....I just think that her character needs to be developed. Granted there are times I feel like her character does just take up space; ya know there is no substance. But again, if they develop the character that should change.
Have you noticed how non-Rodney/John characters get developed? If you're Ronon, you get a few nice background episodes and a lost world. If you're anyone else, you either get Wraith enzymed, cancer exploded, Replicassimilated or [thanks to RL herself] pregnant. Which would you prefer for Dr. Firefly? I can think of which one Ronon would prefer...:P

Funny enough, I'd like to see her go from this nice cutesy girl to being jaded and sarcastic, just like the original Rodney. That reversal should be worth something. With all the pressure of working in that job, she can't stay like she is now for long. She'll either break, become stronger or get crusty. I vote for crusty.

[suse]

it might cause him to loose his hair :ronananime01:

<<snicker>> Considering Jason cut off his hair over the beak I'd say he did 'lose' it.

While I'm not overly impressed with Keller I also don't dislike her. I'm willing to see her grow. I bet she'll develop a spine.

suse

[cabouse18]

Have you noticed how non-Rodney/John characters get developed? If you're Ronon, you get a few nice background episodes and a lost world. If you're anyone else, you either get Wraith enzymed, cancer exploded, Replicassimilated or [thanks to RL herself] pregnant. Which would you prefer for Dr. Firefly? I can think of which one Ronon would prefer...:P


Bit harsh...yet ever so slightly true;)

[VSS]

This alone is reason enough for me to forget about season 5 of SGA. For reasons that I've already explained ad nasuem in the anti-Keller thread, she's not a believable CMO for Atlantis.

While it's true that doctors come in as officers automatically, somewhere along the line they do get basic training. Keller evidently missed that, as well as a few years of medical training. I'm sorry , but between losing Carter and gaining Keller, I guess I'll be watching reruns. Not even getting Carson back is going to make up for this.

They can try to develop her character all they want, be she is basically not a believable character and that just kills it for me. Terribly miscast- and now she's a regular. Ugh.

[jelgate]

When is television believeble?

[Jumper_One]

This alone is reason enough for me to forget about season 5 of SGA. For reasons that I've already explained ad nasuem in the anti-Keller thread, she's not a believable CMO for Atlantis.

While it's true that doctors come in as officers automatically, somewhere along the line they do get basic training. Keller evidently missed that, as well as a few years of medical training. I'm sorry , but between losing Carter and gaining Keller, I guess I'll be watching reruns. Not even getting Carson back is going to make up for this.

They can try to develop her character all they want, be she is basically not a believable character and that just kills it for me. Terribly miscast- and now she's a regular. Ugh.

quick reminder though, just because Keller's a regular in s5 doesn't mean she'll appear in 20 eps. she's in 11 eps in s4 (10 Keller, 1 RepliKeller), I'm guessing they'll only add 2 or 3 eps (=13/14) for s5

[cabouse18]

When is television believeble?

Lately? Never!;)

[Jumper_One]

Lately? Never!;)

depends on the show :P

[VSS]

When is television believeble?

Well, that's the essential problem with sci-fi, isn't it? So much of it is unbelievable, that when you get to the parts that have a correlate in real life, then they need to correlate. In Stargate things having to do with basic human nature, the military, medical training, science, etc. need to make sense and have some continuity from episode to episode or who's going to believe the stuff that really is on the margins of believability? They used to be really good about crossing the t's and dotting the i's, but now, not so much. It seems to me the attention to detail has been lost and having Keller as CMO is just a symptom of a larger problem.

[atfan]

Just curious--is a screening process talked about in SG-1 (didn't watch that show)? I don't remember anything about one discussed on SGA. What are the requirements?

Just remembered something else not exactly screening per say but in "Shades of Grey SG-1, The other team that O'Neill joins while undercover for the SGC was made up of people who didn't make the cut for the SGC. Always in order to obtain top secret clearance you need a clean background no criminal history good credit and they usually give you a psych. screen you also must be in good health and good physical condition without medical problems. Same criteria is used for people wanting to join the military or attend the academy. Even civilian contractors that are working in Iraq are given a combat training course and basic weapons class before they are allowed to go to Iraq as a govenment contractor (civillian)
:cameron:

[atfan]

Have you noticed how non-Rodney/John characters get developed? If you're Ronon, you get a few nice background episodes and a lost world. If you're anyone else, you either get Wraith enzymed, cancer exploded, Replicassimilated or [thanks to RL herself] pregnant. Which would you prefer for Dr. Firefly? I can think of which one Ronon would prefer...:P

Funny enough, I'd like to see her go from this nice cutesy girl to being jaded and sarcastic, just like the original Rodney. That reversal should be worth something. With all the pressure of working in that job, she can't stay like she is now for long. She'll either break, become stronger or get crusty. I vote for crusty.

yes crusty and a little snarky would be excellent. I love how Carter's character has developed over her eleven years playing her she has gotten less feminist still retained her wonder of things science and managed to become a successful confident leader who isn't afraid to fight for what she knows is right even if that means risking her life or career. Her dynamic in season nine and ten was snarky and even sarcastic at times which to me was great also she put Cameron in his place a lot had to temper that wide-eyed I am SG-1 so I am invincible thing he had going for awhile.

It seems a character's introduction in Stargate is always over the top and then they get toned down.
For instance - Sam Carter and her infamous reproductive organs speech need I say more? Cameron - Now that's what I'm talking about crap + no regard for anyone's safety- bad combo. Vala- that outfit - those remarks to the senator- chaining herself to Daniel etc. Anise- tokra barbie outfit/ kissing O'Neill You get the point. Rodney- hitting on Carter calling her a dumb blonde etc.
Perhaps Keller is suffering from that as well with it being toned down next season because whiny + insecure + imature is not a good combination.
We can hope at least.;):S

[Reiko]

People need to just accept the fact that Keller is a permanent part of Atlantis for at least one more season and that, most likely, after Carson's five or so episodes, he's gone (for at least the season).

Move on.

Nope, I'm not moving on. Never, ever - despite how I may feel about how hopeless we are at this time, I know I have the last of my wills to fight. And I ain't quittin' my Carson-supporting as long as Atlantis goes on. Maybe even after. ;)


And maybe people should also not jump to the conclusion that disliking Keller has anything to do with Carson being on the show or not.

While I far prefer Carson over her and want her to go away so I can have him back, my extreme dislike for the character stems pretty much from the character itself. I think the dislike just became much higher when she was promoted to regular and Carson didn't get his rightful spot back. That's when I think lots of people factored Carson into it


If I can tolerate the fandom's incessant whining, I sure as hell as can tolerate Keller's...and anyone and anything else's.

I envy your tolerance and patience. I really do. Or maybe you've just gotten accustomed to the incessant whining that it no longer bothers you. ;)


Meh, look at it this way:
s1: Carson was recurring
s2: Carson was a regular
s3: Worst. Death. Ever.
TPTB love to repeat themselves. You do the math. :D

Well, I don't think I can wait another two seasons! One was bad enough.




While I agree with you on Keller not bringing anything interesting to the table for me, I felt Carson was interesting and should have been utilized more effectively. On the other hand, many people seem all aflutter about a Ronon/Keller romance and consider that a major selling point of the character.

Would green you if I could :o But Carson is far more interesting than Keller and far more multidimentional especially when it comes to his little science project with Mikey and the repercussions :P He also is sweet, charming, and with a big heart that sometimes gets in the way of what is best. But Keller ... bleagh. Have we even seen much of her heart (other than the whiny interior monologue?) Nooo. And if I was aflutter about Keller/Ronon I would certainly suspect someone was drugging me against my will. Dumped Elizabeth, dumped Carson, now they're ruining Ronon.


That scence is where I began to actively dislike the character. I could handle her before that. I was really hoping for more Carson in the 5th season, and less Keller.



1. "Because she replaced Carson." Blame Weir.
Pretty much I'm with ToasterOnFire: I blame TPTB. ;)

2. "Because she's whiny." Two words to that: Rodney McKay.

Rodney is acceptably obnoxious because he is smart, and knows it, and makes sure everyone else knows it. I just love him.
Keller is smart, but wants everyone to feel sorry for her. Its annoying and the more she opens her mouth, the less I like her.
Aforementioned by ToasterOnFire and GateLadyM, Rodney brings snark and Keller either brings the sound of angry, well-intentioned fans or the harmonious chorus of singing crickets. I love Rodney. Rodney is adorable when he whines (most of the time). Keller never is. She needs to take her pity party somewhere else.

4. "Because of 'Quarantine'." Why? What was she supposed to do when locked in an exam room? "Put on a hazmat suit." Where's she gonna get it, pull it out of Ronon's butt?
Oh, for me it was way prior to Quarantine :S And I don't even want to think about what could've happened if that lockdown dragged on any longer. McKay/Brown is far more appealing compared to that.


But we have seen Ronon as more than an angry character and he's had more backstory than both Sheppard and Teyla (at least he did before Outcast and Missing) so I don't see shipping him with Keller as adding anything interesting to his character. In fact, based on what I saw in Quarantine, I'm afraid that TPTB will continue to alter Ronon's character to make him one of Keller's adoring fans in order to prop up Keller.

This is not good because the quickest way to get me to dislike a character is if other characters are destroyed to make that character look good.

That's what I'm afraid of :S I think Keller lost a lot of credibility in that romance plot. We know where TP is getting at. And yet they deny there's no ships ... har-har. To sacrifice the wonderful character of Ronon for the pointless adoration of Keller is plain madness. It's crap. And if she destorys any more if TPTB tries even harder to have her win us over, I will barf on the floor and that proves Atlantis from season four on is AU.



I thought for sure TPTB would get rid of her in season 5. Keller is a horrid creation and I really can't stand to watch much of her. Maybe if she wasn't a useless whiner, or self-centered, crying about all those parties she missed. *shudders to think about her*

I'm with ya GateLadyM. With all the hype, the luring of that big steak in front of our eyes we were all looking forward to seeing Carson regular or recurring as CMO again. But what they gave us - five episodes, topped by Keller a regular - is a big slap in the face that will leave wounds that won't heal for a damn long while. Sometimes I think they like taunting us, playing with our minds, our hearts and our sanity. :S


No, Keller is in Kindred 1 & 2 and The Last Man. She is in 11 episodes this season (one as repli!Keller).


Damn, I thought Kindreds were going to be Carson's eppies. :S I won't share my Carson eppie with anyone (except Teyla, because she ish also awesome.) If Keller gets a large chunk of Kindreds there's gonna be lots of fast forwarding. People want to see them interact ... Some is okay but I'd rather keep it to a minimum.


I think they attempted to make her more sympathetic in Quarantine as well as trying to explain her age. Unfortunately it back fired and just made her less sympathetic - it was a bit of 'poor little rich girl' syndrome. People aren't exactly going to be sympathetic when you're big issue in life is 'Oh woe is me I was so much better than everyone else that I was an outcast and didn't get to go to parties'. Besides, in a way they've already done that with Rodney except he didn't exactly want pity for it.

Yeah, it's been done with Rodney and besides, he's much more fun. TP's plan to endear Keller to us and make us sympathize with her was shot right back in thier faces. Keller should be happy she had to opportunity go have a good education, lots of people don't get that. She has a good job. Her family was able to put food on the table for her. She went to college and got a nice spiffy degree. Lots of people in the world do not have those opportunities, or fail to take advantage of them. Her 'woe is me' tale is one I don't want to hear again.

Bring your pity party somewhere else, Keller. :P

[PG15]

I envy your tolerance and patience. I really do. Or maybe you've just gotten accustomed to the incessant whining that it no longer bothers you. ;)


Yep, that must be it. ;)

[Bagpuss]

I liked Keller to begin with in FS,and until Quarantine,didn't have any problem with her that I couldn't hand-wave away.I don't expect to like every single character on any show.:)
Maybe she could have been stronger in Missing.Maybe not.I don't know if I'd be any braver than she was under the same circumstances ,but until she shot the Genii guy,she was coming off as too raw and panicky to be of any use to Teyla or herself.IMO.
I don't just blame Keller for not enjoying that ep scenario,but the writing ,as I think Teyla and Keller should at least have carried sidearms and field packs.
They live in the Pegasus Galaxy, where the Replicators,Wraith ,and Wraith worshippers are an ever-present danger.

In Quarantine ,I found her downright annoyingly self centred ,and twee at best.
I can't see why development=ship on the shows.I found the Ronon/Keller sudden infatuation pointless .
I'm hoping she improves in Trio and the remaining episodes of Season 4.

Hopefully the inclusion of Keller as a regular will lead to better development in Season five.I'm hoping the writing centres on her doing her job,not her love life ,or what she missed socially during her fast-track through to becoming the Atlantis CMO.:cool:

[Pitry]

I'm looking on the bright side - when Carson became a regular in season 2, he turned from one of the best and most developed characters of the show to paperwall.
This could be a way to get less Keller. :)

Don't get me wrong. I really like Jewel STaite and I think she's a great actress. She definitely has done all she could with the stupid and inconsistent way her character was written. But, as this line would hint, the character's written in a stupid and inconsistent way and doesn't make me want to watch it, really..

[Killdeer]

11 episodes. Wow - for some reason I thought it was 8. I suppose I should be relieved that the recovery of Keller's character (in my eyes) this season doesn't rest on just one episode. Unfortunately, now I'm afraid that I'm going to notice all those little annoying things about how the character is written that I had overlooked before Quarantine.

There's a good reason that you thought that. :D The original press release that announced Jewel Staite was coming on the show said that she would be in eight episodes. That evidently got extended though, because she is in 11. She said in one of her video interviews that she is in 11, and she's on the cast list for Kindred 1 & 2 and Last Man.

[Mitchell82]

depends on the show :P

Indeed.

[Mitchell82]

While I like Keller I understand the fears of those who don't and hope that she will be just fine.

[Fenrir Foxz]

While I like Keller I understand the fears of those who don't and hope that she will be just fine.

Yup, hopefully we'll see more positive qualities in Keller S5, I think she has been quite understandable so far...

[Willow'sCat]

Well I am glad she is being brought into the fold as a regular. So far I can't fault her as a character and Jewel is doing a great job with the quite frankly little she has to work with, I think she is an asset to the TEAM. :D

I don't find her whiny or annoying or angry... angry? Really? Go figure, wonder what folks think of Ronon then? Maybe that is why they are getting it on! :p

I find her sweet, yes sweet! :)

[Killdeer]

I find her sweet, yes sweet! :)

Hmm, maybe that's my problem - I've never been big on "sweet". :D

[Jumper_One]

There's a good reason that you thought that. :D The original press release that announced Jewel Staite was coming on the show said that she would be in eight episodes. That evidently got extended though, because she is in 11. She said in one of her video interviews that she is in 11, and she's on the cast list for Kindred 1 & 2 and Last Man.

actually Keller's in 10 eps since JS played RepliKeller in TMC :D

[Killdeer]

actually Keller's in 10 eps since JS played RepliKeller in TMC :D

I'm getting a sense of deja-vu here...... LOL! :D

And I said Jewel Staite, not Keller.

[Jumper_One]

I'm getting a sense of deja-vu here...... LOL! :D

:lol:

[Willow'sCat]

Hmm, maybe that's my problem - I've never been big on "sweet". :DWell I guess I just prefer to have the SGA doctor on the show as sweet; it is much better then unethical. ;)

[cabouse18]

Well I guess I just prefer to have the SGA doctor on the show as sweet; it is much better then unethical. ;)

Yeah but sometimes she tends to be too Mary Sue....They need to make a little more gritty. I can only take sooo much sweet. But I do agree, to some extent, that I would rather have her be sweet than unethical.

She just seems to be too perfect somtimes. I mean we learned she was a child prodigy in Quarantine, which is believable but they need to give her more of an edge. She is too much of a "yes ma'am, no ma'am" character right now.

[magneticresonance]

Well, that's the essential problem with sci-fi, isn't it? So much of it is unbelievable, that when you get to the parts that have a correlate in real life, then they need to correlate. In Stargate things having to do with basic human nature, the military, medical training, science, etc. need to make sense and have some continuity from episode to episode or who's going to believe the stuff that really is on the margins of believability? They used to be really good about crossing the t's and dotting the i's, but now, not so much. It seems to me the attention to detail has been lost and having Keller as CMO is just a symptom of a larger problem.

I agree. Sci-fi shows are supposed to deal with extraordinary concepts that might seem unbelievable or bizarre (at least at the time; it occurs to me that much of the OMG so futuristic!!!! tech that appeared in early Star Trek not only exists just forty years later, but has in some cases been outstripped already, but I digress). The plot, technology, etc aren't expected to be 'realistic'. But that doesn't mean the characters and background - and the science, where possible - don't have to be believable for the show to work. One thing in particular that bemuses me about Stargate is how sloppy they are with scientific research - especially brain science. They did pretty well in 'Miller's Crossing', but otherwise...'let's break the kid's conditioning by shooting him with a zat gun. It's just like ECT!' whut!?

Most of the mistakes could be resolved just by having a minion read the appropriate wiki entries - often, one or two sentences of simplified explanation could fill in the scientific plotholes quite easily and make it all seem a little more believable. Not that it really matters all that much - it's a fun show and it doesn't take itself too seriously, so realism is less important for Atlantis (IMO) than it is for something more hard hitting like, say, BSG or The 4400 (then again, look at their brain science. Wow!:D) All the same it feels a bit...lazy, or something.

The main problem for me is the sloppy character continuity and revolving-door cast! It's hard to get invested in a character when every time something important happens, the writers hit the reset button. I still enjoy watching and discussing Atlantis - mostly because it doesn't take itself too seriously! - but sometimes I get nostalgic for season 1, which I thought was by far the best.

[doylefan22]

Well I guess I just prefer to have the SGA doctor on the show as sweet; it is much better then unethical. ;)

I just prefer them to be an interesting character. I've honestly never adhered to idea that we should always agree with what the good guys do and they should always be right. Far too black and white for my liking. That's why I liked the Michael storyline - when having to choose between turning the Wraith human against their will or wiping them out as a species there was never a 'right' answer which made for a good story.

It's the same reason why I'm not bothered by Woolsey becoming leader. I don't feel the need to always like the 'good' guys. To look at another show, I hated Owen for most of the first series of Torchwood yet I wouldn't have wanted him to not be in the show and he was one of the bets characters to watch.

Back to SGA, they certainly managed to write a much more bearable Keller for Trio which is definitely a positive if we're going to be seeing a lot more of her. Although the bar trick thing was a tad juxtapose to the whole 'I had no social life' thing from a couple of episodes back. See still doesn't exactly excite or interest me as a character but at least she's not irritating.

[Killdeer]

Since I've been so free with my criticism of Keller on this thread :P, I wanted to say that I really did enjoy Keller in Trio, in spite of going into the episode completely convinced that I would hate it.

I think Gero (and Cooper too) does a better job with Keller than Binder does. While I've normally liked Carl Binder's writing, I think his episodes ended up making the character look worse. I vote for Gero to take over Keller episodes, and hopefully she'll be much more tolerable in S5.

[Mitchell82]

Since I've been so free with my criticism of Keller on this thread :P, I wanted to say that I really did enjoy Keller in Trio, in spite of going into the episode completely convinced that I would hate it.

I think Gero (and Cooper too) does a better job with Keller than Binder does. While I've normally liked Carl Binder's writing, I think his episodes ended up making the character look worse. I vote for Gero to take over Keller episodes, and hopefully she'll be much more tolerable in S5.

I'm glad you liked Keller in Trio. Maybe she can be redeemed in your eyes after all eh?

[Killdeer]

I'm glad you liked Keller in Trio. Maybe she can be redeemed in your eyes after all eh?

Hopefully. Trio went a long way toward doing that. Despite what some might think, I don't WANT to hate the character. I just haven't cared for how she's been presented in, well, most of the season actually.

I did like her in Doppelganger, and this was the Keller I saw in Doppelganger and Adrift. Not the whiny Keller I saw in Missing and Quarantine, or the flat monotone Keller of Tabula Rasa and Seer. I could handle having more of this Keller around. Let's just lose the other.

[Mitchell82]

Hopefully. Trio went a long way toward doing that. Despite what some might think, I don't WANT to hate the character. I just haven't cared for how she's been presented in, well, most of the season actually.

I did like her in Doppelganger, and this was the Keller I saw in Doppelganger and Adrift. Not the whiny Keller I saw in Missing and Quarantine, or the flat monotone Keller of Tabula Rasa and Seer. I could handle having more of this Keller around. Let's just lose the other.
While I disagree about what happend in Missing I do agree that this ep showcased her well.

[vaberella]

Well I am glad she is being brought into the fold as a regular. So far I can't fault her as a character and Jewel is doing a great job with the quite frankly little she has to work with, I think she is an asset to the TEAM. :D

I don't find her whiny or annoying or angry... angry? Really? Go figure, wonder what folks think of Ronon then? Maybe that is why they are getting it on! :p

I find her sweet, yes sweet! :)

I agree with you 100%. My only concern is that I don't want her to turn into Carson during S3. S3 was a joke and I was always like what is Carson's purpose. I actually find it more realistic to have Carson put back in place on Atlantis after what he's been through than going back to Earth, but whatever.

I just hope she's doesnt turn into a whole..."What's Keller doing here?" kind of thing, which is what I was saying about Beckett more times than not.

As for Ronon, he's God and the only character who's in character and three-dimensional. He's so far the only character that has never pissed me off because of the writing for him. Everyone else...:S :(

[Willow'sCat]

I agree with you 100%. My only concern is that I don't want her to turn into Carson during S3. S3 was a joke and I was always like what is Carson's purpose. I actually find it more realistic to have Carson put back in place on Atlantis after what he's been through than going back to Earth, but whatever. Well I can see them working together, but honestly I wouldn't want a doctor (myself) if I knew he had been held captive for months, not until he is cleared by a medical board or something. :S


I just hope she's doesnt turn into a whole..."What's Keller doing here?" kind of thing, which is what I was saying about Beckett more times than not.
That is my fear too, sometimes no matter how much you want a character in an episode it just makes no sense to have them there, so yes whether Keller or Carson or random doctor number 3, I don't want them there just *because*. ;)

As for Ronon, he's God and the only character who's in character and three-dimensional. He's so far the only character that has never pissed me off because of the writing for him. Everyone else...:S :(You sure you mean three-dimensional and not two? *runs away*:p

I will give you that he is always in character, but when that character has little to say *or do* that becomes easy. :cool:

[Mitchell82]

I agree with you 100%. My only concern is that I don't want her to turn into Carson during S3. S3 was a joke and I was always like what is Carson's purpose. I actually find it more realistic to have Carson put back in place on Atlantis after what he's been through than going back to Earth, but whatever.

I just hope she's doesnt turn into a whole..."What's Keller doing here?" kind of thing, which is what I was saying about Beckett more times than not.

As for Ronon, he's God and the only character who's in character and three-dimensional. He's so far the only character that has never pissed me off because of the writing for him. Everyone else...:S :(
Just to clarify are you saying Carson's appearances were a joke or the season as a whole?

[Amaunet]

I think its brilliant that they’ve made her a regular…I really like her character and i'm looking forward to seeing more in S5!

[Fenrir Foxz]

Just to clarify are you saying Carson's appearances were a joke or the season as a whole?

My interpretation of that post is they're saying Carson's ecessive and unrequired appearences were a joke ;)


I think its brilliant that they’ve made her a regular…I really like her character and i'm looking forward to seeing more in S5!

Yup same here :) The more I've seen of Keller the more I've liked this character...

[atfan]

I enjoyed her in Trio and the whole bar thing didn't bother me just because she felt out of place in high school doesn't mean she didn't adapt better in medical school and as an intern/resident. She may look young but she has to be at least 28 or so assuming she skipped some grades.

Much better than missing and she is growing on me.

[Lt Sara]

Out with Keller .In with Carson i say

[Lt Sara]

its not that Keller is not very interesting . The Writers need to work more on her character development.With Carson it took 2 epsiodes to characterise him............with Keller it may take a whole season and a half.:beckett:

[Mitchell82]

My interpretation of that post is they're saying Carson's ecessive and unrequired appearences were a joke ;)
I hope so as I loved season 3. However Carson was over utilized IMO.




Yup same here :) The more I've seen of Keller the more I've liked this character...
Same here.

[Briangate78]

Well I am glad she is being brought into the fold as a regular. So far I can't fault her as a character and Jewel is doing a great job with the quite frankly little she has to work with, I think she is an asset to the TEAM. :D

I don't find her whiny or annoying or angry... angry? Really? Go figure, wonder what folks think of Ronon then? Maybe that is why they are getting it on! :p

I find her sweet, yes sweet! :)

Yeah, I agree. I think also with Carson coming back it may ease a lot of tension on the Carson fans who will then enjoy some nice chemistry between Carson and Keller. Let's hope Carson gets more than 5 eps, which Joe M said that number is not set in stone.


Since I've been so free with my criticism of Keller on this thread :P, I wanted to say that I really did enjoy Keller in Trio, in spite of going into the episode completely convinced that I would hate it.

I think Gero (and Cooper too) does a better job with Keller than Binder does. While I've normally liked Carl Binder's writing, I think his episodes ended up making the character look worse. I vote for Gero to take over Keller episodes, and hopefully she'll be much more tolerable in S5.

Well Carl was on strike for most of the S5 writing, so there ya go. Although Carl does write some great eps also.

[Briangate78]

We conducted a poll on SCI FI and 75% like the idea of Keller becoming a regular, while 90% said they would want her at least recurring. The other 10 percent well, use your imagination. :p

[Mitchell82]

We conducted a poll on SCI FI and 75% like the idea of Keller becoming a regular, while 90% said they would want her at least recurring. The other 10 percent well, use your imagination. :p

I can imagine.

[Lt Sara]

A background episode to Keller would be helpful for those of us who havent yet entered her with our wormhole heart.

More Keller action and less of her humanity . She needs to rebel i say

[Mitchell82]

A background episode to Keller would be helpful for those of us who havent yet entered her with our wormhole heart.

More Keller action and less of her humanity . She needs to rebel i say

I disagree. Her humanity is one reason I like her.

[Killdeer]

Well Carl was on strike for most of the S5 writing, so there ya go. Although Carl does write some great eps also.

I don't disagree with that - he's written some of my favorite episodes. But I don't like what he's done with Keller. Missing and Quarantine almost killed the character for me - until Trio came along I was ready to write her off completely.

[Briangate78]

I don't disagree with that - he's written some of my favorite episodes. But I don't like what he's done with Keller. Missing and Quarantine almost killed the character for me - until Trio came along I was ready to write her off completely.

Well you know me Mr. optimistic, I think she will truly grow on people in the next several eps she appears in to whom she has not grown on yet. I liked her the most in "Adrift", "Doppleganger", "This Mortal Coil"(Which was not really Keller though), and Trio.

[Killdeer]

I liked her the most in "Adrift", "Doppleganger", "This Mortal Coil"(Which was not really Keller though), and Trio.

Those were the ones I liked her the best in too. :)

Really, I didn't start having a problem with the character until Tabula Rasa, and then it was just downhill from there until Trio. Except for TMC, but she was playing a different character there.

[Briangate78]

Those were the ones I liked her the best in too. :)

Really, I didn't start having a problem with the character until Tabula Rasa, and then it was just downhill from there until Trio. Except for TMC, but she was playing a different character there.

Let me ask you a question if you don't mind. What are you looking for in Keller? I think she is the best when a medical challenge is upon her.

I think she was supposed to act the way she did in "Missing", notice how in Trio she stepped up to the challenge, didn't whine like Mckay, lol. She was hanging on the rope took control and was able to find an escape route. I just think from "Missing" she sees what Atlantis gets into, and she is becoming stronger with the risks since she knows a little more of what is out there.

[Killdeer]

Let me ask you a question if you don't mind. What are you looking for in Keller? I think she is the best when a medical challenge is upon her.

I don't mind the question, but I'm not sure I can answer it. I don't usually have something that I'm looking for in particular with a character. Either they click with me or they don't. It's hard to define.

I do know I will go for someone who is snarky and sarcastic, or who has a bit of an attitude problem, twenty times faster than I will someone who's just nice and sweet.

For example, I always far preferred Dr Pulaski to Dr Crusher on ST:TNG, even though Beverly was the original doctor. I love Dr House and Cuddy and Wilson, but I absolutely despise Cameron.


I think she was supposed to act the way she did in "Missing", notice how in Trio she stepped up to the challenge, didn't whine like Mckay, lol. She was hanging on the rope took control and was able to find an escape route. I just think from "Missing" she sees what Atlantis gets into, and she is becoming stronger with the risks since she knows a little more of what is out there.

With Missing, I think....well, ok. There were two things going on with me in Missing. First, I was all excited about this being a Teyla episode, and I had a much different picture in my mind about how it was going to be. As it turned out, the episode focused much more on Keller and her reactions and her journey through the whole thing than it did on Teyla. (spoilered just to be safe) Yeah, there was a little bit of Teyla's story with losing her people and her lover and everything, but that really seemed like the "b" storyline - like Keller was the focus and Teyla was the supporting character to her, rather than it being the other way around as I felt it should have been. So I was am still very bitter about that.

The second thing was that they way overplayed Keller IMO on the nervous fraidycat vulnerable chick angle. They took it way further then they should have, hitting all the cliches along the way (sprained ankle, homesick girl, scared of heights, screaming and freaking out). Some of that would have been understandable, but I felt like they took it way WAY too far, and ended up making people wonder how in the world this chick managed to get to Atlantis. I felt like they just went overboard with it - they were having fun with Jewel and playing it up, and they got carried away.

And again, her actions just served to pull the attention away from Teyla. Instead of focusing on what Teyla's going through, on her turmoil and fear over losing her people, we're distracted by Keller's hysterics. Missing was really Keller's episode, not Teyla's, and I didn't think that was in the least bit fair.

[Mitchell82]

I don't mind the question, but I'm not sure I can answer it. I don't usually have something that I'm looking for in particular with a character. Either they click with me or they don't. It's hard to define.

I do know I will go for someone who is snarky and sarcastic, or who has a bit of an attitude problem, twenty times faster than I will someone who's just nice and sweet.
I see your pov and I agree with that.


For example, I always far preferred Dr Pulaski to Dr Crusher on ST:TNG, even though Beverly was the original doctor. I love Dr House and Cuddy and Wilson, but I absolutely despise Cameron.
See I love Dr Crusher and hated Dr Pulaski. As Per house I like all of them except for Dr. Chase. Shows just how different peoples views can be.




With Missing, I think....well, ok. There were two things going on with me in Missing. First, I was all excited about this being a Teyla episode, and I had a much different picture in my mind about how it was going to be. As it turned out, the episode focused much more on Keller and her reactions and her journey through the whole thing than it did on Teyla. (spoilered just to be safe) Yeah, there was a little bit of Teyla's story with losing her people and her lover and everything, but that really seemed like the "b" storyline - like Keller was the focus and Teyla was the supporting character to her, rather than it being the other way around as I felt it should have been. So I was am still very bitter about that.
I see your point but I disagree. I think the two characters supported each other well just as the storyline complemented each other.


The second thing was that they way overplayed Keller IMO on the nervous fraidycat vulnerable chick angle. They took it way further then they should have, hitting all the cliches along the way (sprained ankle, homesick girl, scared of heights, screaming and freaking out). Some of that would have been understandable, but I felt like they took it way WAY too far, and ended up making people wonder how in the world this chick managed to get to Atlantis. I felt like they just went overboard with it - they were having fun with Jewel and playing it up, and they got carried away.

And again, her actions just served to pull the attention away from Teyla. Instead of focusing on what Teyla's going through, on her turmoil and fear over losing her people, we're distracted by Keller's hysterics. Missing was really Keller's episode, not Teyla's, and I didn't think that was in the least bit fair.
See I feel that Keller's reactions and attitude was realistic to the situation. She is young and very naive as to what she was going to experience. I really feel it was a great bonding ep for the two characters.

[Amaunet]

The more I've seen of Keller the more I've liked this character...

Yer same, especially after I watched Missing. I even like the whingy side of her, because I feel that it makes the character come across more "real/genuine" ;)

[Fenrir Foxz]

Yer same, especially after I watched Missing. I even like the whingy side of her, because I feel that it makes the character come across more "real/genuine" ;)

Yeah I agree, plus in the context of the situation her whining was somewhat justified given the fact she had not been in a situation anywhere near as bad as that before in her life :)

[Mitchell82]

Yeah I agree, plus in the context of the situation her whining was somewhat justified given the fact she had not been in a situation anywhere near as bad as that before in her life :)

Agreed.

[MatroxMeteor]

I think promoting Keller to a regular is a mistake. My only problem with her is that on a mission such as to Atlantis you'd expect the best of the best to be chosen. Keller might be a wunderkind and an excellent doctor, but it takes more. She needs to be confident, reliable, stable under stress and has to be able to take the initiative. And this is everything Keller is not. Carson also lacked confidence sometimes, but Keller is on a completely different level. So far the absolutely only good idea and show of initiative she had was a bar game!

I don't mind her for the eye candy factor. She certainly fits. But wouldn't it be so much more interesting if she were confident, witty, resourcefull... You might say she's just human, but would that be a good excuse for, say, an expedition leader who can't make decisions?
Jure

[jenks]

I think promoting Keller to a regular is a mistake. My only problem with her is that on a mission such as to Atlantis you'd expect the best of the best to be chosen. Keller might be a wunderkind and an excellent doctor, but it takes more. She needs to be confident, reliable, stable under stress and has to be able to take the initiative. And this is everything Keller is not. Carson also lacked confidence sometimes, but Keller is on a completely different level. So far the absolutely only good idea and show of initiative she had was a bar game!

I don't mind her for the eye candy factor. She certainly fits. But wouldn't it be so much more interesting if she were confident, witty, resourcefull... You might say she's just human, but would that be a good excuse for, say, an expedition leader who can't make decisions?
Jure

Just like every other character? No.

[Mitchell82]

I think promoting Keller to a regular is a mistake. My only problem with her is that on a mission such as to Atlantis you'd expect the best of the best to be chosen. Keller might be a wunderkind and an excellent doctor, but it takes more. She needs to be confident, reliable, stable under stress and has to be able to take the initiative. And this is everything Keller is not. Carson also lacked confidence sometimes, but Keller is on a completely different level. So far the absolutely only good idea and show of initiative she had was a bar game!

I don't mind her for the eye candy factor. She certainly fits. But wouldn't it be so much more interesting if she were confident, witty, resourcefull... You might say she's just human, but would that be a good excuse for, say, an expedition leader who can't make decisions?
Jure

I disagree. She started out that way however she has grown quite a bit.

[Fenrir Foxz]

I disagree. She started out that way however she has grown quite a bit.

:indeed: I think alot has been explained about who Keller really is from what we've seen so far and I like the character... Can't wait to see more of her in S5 :D

[atfan]

I agree Trio redeemed the character for me. Missing was over the top I think but they tend to do that with new characters in general. Look at Sam's reproductive speech in season one of Stargate. I was wondering if anyone else the mention of Keller in a bodysuit and prosthetics - see Joe M's blog for more information had any ideas what the plotline could be involving her and that tidbit might be able to guess anything?

[The.Road.Not.Taken]

i really am glad keller has been promoted she has really be given the oppurtunity to shine in s5 i really hope the writiers come up with a way to make this charatcher stand out and be a crowd pleaser

[GateLadyM]

What doctor packs a supply case and isn't prepared for the unknown? Motrin instead of morphine? WTH? She is going to a planet she knows nothing about in Trio!

All that whining in the first 5 minutes about having to walk just turned me off. While I had the TV on, I didn't pay much attention just because of that chat. Then I caught the motrin thing when Sam got hurt. Plus there was the claim of internal bleeding when all she did was poke Sam's feet. She never touched her belly once. Apparently the writers never watched an episode of "Trauma in the ER", which is a great reality show. They could certainly pick up a few pointers for Keller.

If I see much of her in season 5, I'm off. She is that bad to me.

[The.Road.Not.Taken]

What doctor packs a supply case and isn't prepared for the unknown? Motrin instead of morphine? WTH? She is going to a planet she knows nothing about in Trio!

All that whining in the first 5 minutes about having to walk just turned me off. While I had the TV on, I didn't pay much attention just because of that chat. Then I caught the motrin thing when Sam got hurt. Plus there was the claim of internal bleeding when all she did was poke Sam's feet. She never touched her belly once. Apparently the writers never watched an episode of "Trauma in the ER", which is a great reality show. They could certainly pick up a few pointers for Keller.

If I see much of her in season 5, I'm off. She is that bad to me.

you cant say she was moning in trio all she said is she needed to do more cardio thats it that was hardly what i call moaning if anyone was doing the moaning in that ep it was rodney

[jenks]

What doctor packs a supply case and isn't prepared for the unknown? Motrin instead of morphine? WTH? She is going to a planet she knows nothing about in Trio!

All that whining in the first 5 minutes about having to walk just turned me off. While I had the TV on, I didn't pay much attention just because of that chat. Then I caught the motrin thing when Sam got hurt. Plus there was the claim of internal bleeding when all she did was poke Sam's feet. She never touched her belly once. Apparently the writers never watched an episode of "Trauma in the ER", which is a great reality show. They could certainly pick up a few pointers for Keller.

If I see much of her in season 5, I'm off. She is that bad to me.

No she isn't, watch it again.

[Madeleine]

I think promoting Keller to a regular is a mistake. My only problem with her is that on a mission such as to Atlantis you'd expect the best of the best to be chosen. Keller might be a wunderkind and an excellent doctor, but it takes more. She needs to be confident, reliable, stable under stress and has to be able to take the initiative. And this is everything Keller is not.

ITA

Rodney comes over as a bit of a chicken and a neurotic, on a similar level to Keller, but because he's the most brilliant physicist in the world (give or take) his obvious flaws are not a bar to him being on the mission. Keller's flaws are the kind that stem from immaturity and inexperience, and while those are excuseable for any young doctor, they are the kind that should be an absolute bar to her becoming a CMO of such a facility.

There are certain types of role in which a young turk or a wunderkind would be credible. Computer supremo, mechanical genius (eg Kaylee in firefly) or academic: you can do jobs like that with brilliance alone. Other roles, like CMO, CO of an offworld team or diplomat are the kind where you want someone at least a few years seasoned.

[Briangate78]

ITA

Rodney comes over as a bit of a chicken and a neurotic, on a similar level to Keller, but because he's the most brilliant physicist in the world (give or take) his obvious flaws are not a bar to him being on the mission. Keller's flaws are the kind that stem from immaturity and inexperience, and while those are excuseable for any young doctor, they are the kind that should be an absolute bar to her becoming a CMO of such a facility.

There are certain types of role in which a young turk or a wunderkind would be credible. Computer supremo, technical geek (eg Kaylee in firefly) or academic: you can do jobs like that with brilliance alone. Other roles, like CMO, CO of an offworld team or diplomat are the kind where you want someone at least a few years seasoned.

I think Keller had come a long way from "Missing" to "Trio". I think Season 5 will have great development for this character. :)

[Willow'sCat]

I tried to give Keller a chance, and even though I like Jewel, they're not giving her enough to work with to make the character likeable.

They're writing her as a whiny, miserably, unconfident child.

That has to change if the wider fandom is ever going to become attached to her character.Hmm, Carson was scared to go through the gate, to go off-world and as some have said McKay was not exactly lacking in the "whiny" department to begin with, some still say he is whiny.

I think some peeps are just missing Carson, but it is pity they feel the need to slag Keller off in the process... :cool: I mean some have even resorted to calling her a slut, now that is just odd and immature. imho. But not surprising. :rolleyes:

[Landers]

I think Keller had come a long way from "Missing" to "Trio". I think Season 5 will have great development for this character. :)

I found her worse in Trio, especially in the "medical knowledge" department.

From the get-go she was complaining about having to walk somewhere, complaining about not getting a ride in a jumper. Um, any doctors I've ever been to are always yelling at patients to "walk more!"

Then she doesn't stock morphine in her pack, when she is going into unknown territory, plus she is dealing with military people. Morphine should just be a given. Any peon medic in the field will be carrying it. Duh.

The whole exam of injured Carter was comical. Keller never checked for internal injuries and did a simple tap the bottom of the foot, then declared, "Its bad". A minute or two more of her actually doing some real medical work instead of the stupid "flashing" mumbo jumbo would have gone a long way towards improving "Trio".

I still don't see Keller competent as a doctor, and her complaining and whining still irritates me so, NO, I'm not looking forward to her as a reg.

[Madeleine]

Hmm, Carson was scared to go through the gate, to go off-world and as some have said McKay was not exactly lacking in the "whiny" department to begin with, some still say he is whiny.

McKay *is* whiny :) But it doesn't matter a great deal, largely because when he's doing his job he's confident and authoritative.

Carson had The Gene, and that may have compensated for other shortcomings. He did seem rather more nervous that I would have thought desireable (no un-nervous doctors with the gene? No other, geneless, doctors to pick from?) But I did feel that a lot of Carson's self-declared scaredness was pragmatism and natural pessimism. There didn't seem to be a lack of courage behind Carson's fears (if that makes sense - I mean: a lot of people are constantly afraid and constantly brave.) Keller seems to have genuine courage issues, which isn't good for a team-member, and self-doubt issues, which isn't what people tend to want from their doctors. McKay portrays himself as a great big chicken, but under pressure he is more than capable of doing whatever needs to be done (albeit while whingeing and talking too fast :))

Janet was authoritative, Carson was professional, and Lam had that air of slight arrogance that can make you feel that you must be in particularly capable hands. I believed in them as senior doctors. Keller doesn't fill me with much confidence. JMO.

[The.Road.Not.Taken]

Hmm, Carson was scared to go through the gate, to go off-world and as some have said McKay was not exactly lacking in the "whiny" department to begin with, some still say he is whiny.

I think some peeps are just missing Carson, but it is pity they feel the need to slag Keller off in the process... :cool: I mean some have even resorted to calling her a slut, now that is just odd and immature. imho. But not surprising. :rolleyes:

it really seems like that you knwo. every misses carson i miss him i admit but i love keller and i think it would be fantastic if they were both working together side by side it would be interesting to see how they react to there different techniques

[ciannwn]

Then she doesn't stock morphine in her pack, when she is going into unknown territory, plus she is dealing with military people. Morphine should just be a given. Any peon medic in the field will be carrying it. Duh.

When it comes to 'medical stuff' I always ask myself "What if Beckett had been in this scene instead of Keller?" If Beckett had been in 'Trio' would he have had morphine in his pack?


The whole exam of injured Carter was comical. Keller never checked for internal injuries and did a simple tap the bottom of the foot, then declared, "Its bad". A minute or two more of her actually doing some real medical work instead of the stupid "flashing" mumbo jumbo would have gone a long way towards improving "Trio".

Would the scriptwriter have made Beckett do something different here?

[PG15]

He probably wouldn't have started playing "Who would you rather". ;)

But medically/Plot-ically? You bet he'll do the exact same thing.

[jelgate]

When it comes to 'medical stuff' I always ask myself "What if Beckett had been in this scene instead of Keller?" If Beckett had been in 'Trio' would he have had morphine in his pack?



Would the scriptwriter have made Beckett do something different here?

Something like that is most likely regualated some IOA medical board. There are usually regulations of what go into a first aid kit so it stands to reason that the off world medical kits are regulated..

[Darkglasses]

Ok, so I mostly like the character of Keller, and I LOVE Jewel but I am not convinced her character should be a regular... and it's not her fault

I have no intention of comparing Keller to Beckett either because I wasn't a big fan about him.

I personally think the role of Chief Medical Officer or whatever you want to call them has been over-used in Atlantis.
Compare it to SG-1:
In 7 seasons Fraiser only appeared in 76 episodes which is an average of just over 10 episodes per season and Dr Lam only appeared in 11 out of a possible 40 episodes.
Beckett was in approx. 45 episodes of a possible 57

Yes the Head Doctor is a great character and is required on many occasions, but its all getting too medical for my likings.

I want Keller to last for as long as the rest of Atlantis does, but at the moment she is getting too much over-exposure IMO.

[Jumper_One]

Keller's in 11 eps in s4, just because she's a regular in s5 doesn't mean she'll be in every ep ;) I'd guess we'll see her in 14-16 eps

[Mitchell82]

:indeed: I think alot has been explained about who Keller really is from what we've seen so far and I like the character... Can't wait to see more of her in S5 :D

Agreed.

[Geral]

I tried to give Keller a chance, and even though I like Jewel, they're not giving her enough to work with to make the character likeable.

They're writing her as a whiny, miserably, unconfident child.

That has to change if the wider fandom is ever going to become attached to her character.

I agree. I find her to be a weak character and the writers tried in the episode where her and Teyla are stranded and the whole Ronan thing but... it's lacking severely.

I think the character is just weak from the start and, well, should be replaced.

[Mitchell82]

I agree. I find her to be a weak character and the writers tried in the episode where her and Teyla are stranded and the whole Ronan thing but... it's lacking severely.

I think the character is just weak from the start and, well, should be replaced.

I disagree. Missing really made me truly love her character, nd at this point I'd hate it if she was replaced.

[Fenrir Foxz]

I disagree. Missing really made me truly love her character, nd at this point I'd hate it if she was replaced.

Yup same here... Keller is a great character IMO and 'Missing' was a great ep :)

[ciannwn]

Something like that is most likely regualated some IOA medical board. There are usually regulations of what go into a first aid kit so it stands to reason that the off world medical kits are regulated..

What I meant was would the scriptwriter have had morphine in Beckett's pack if he'd been writing the scene for Beckett? Everything that goes into a Stargate doctor's medical pack is what the scriptwriter puts in it.

[The.Road.Not.Taken]

What I meant was would the scriptwriter have had morphine in Beckett's pack if he'd been writing the scene for Beckett? Everything that goes into a Stargate doctor's medical pack is what the scriptwriter puts in it.

obviously they have to a certain extent have to have what a normal doctor would have in a pack but the writer would have been responsible for adding any extras they could thing off

[ciannwn]

obviously they have to a certain extent have to have what a normal doctor would have in a pack but the writer would have been responsible for adding any extras they could thing off

Exactly. Some people criticize Keller because they don't think she's competent as a doctor-eg. not having morphine in her medical pack. Was this oversight due to the scriptwriter trying to make viewers think she's naive, incompetent or whatever or just because he didn't think morphine would be included as a standard item?

[The.Road.Not.Taken]

Exactly. Some people criticize Keller because they don't think she's competent as a doctor-eg. not having morphine in her medical pack. Was this oversight due to the scriptwriter trying to make viewers think she's naive, incompetent or whatever or just because he didn't think morphine would be included as a standard item?

also can i say what really was the point of keller bringing it anyway sam said she wouldn't take it why is everyone making a fuss about this

[Mitchell82]

also can i say what really was the point of keller bringing it anyway sam said she wouldn't take it why is everyone making a fuss about this

I don't know either.