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Asuran technological level #Spoilers for season 4 especially BAMSR#

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    Asuran technological level #Spoilers for season 4 especially BAMSR#

    Ok I've seen several people arguing that the Asurans must have had ancient level technology etc...and had all their knowledge. This thread is basically to discuss the Asurans technology or lack of in some area's.

    Despite what seems logical the Asurans seem to preform much worse with apparently the same technology as the Ancients, for example the Orion could obliterate a Hive ship in seconds while with an entire fleet the Asurans could only destroy a single hive out of 7 not through lack of trying. Another example is despite having a mega city and possible city ships they were unable to detect the approach of the fleet even when they were right on top of them. Compare this to Atlantis which can detect hives weeks away from them.

    Clearly the Asurans aren't as advanced as the ancients, their ships in top condition preformed at a fraction of the level of a badly damaged ancient Aurora. Even factoring in the power of the new Asgard technology the Ancient aurora and the Asuran aurora being the same strength doesn't add up.

    My theory is this, the Asurans never had access to full Ancient military knowledge. They simply observed it. They know large parts of ancient technology but not how it fits together. So in the case of their ships they knew what the ships looked like from experience but filled in the internal systems themselves leading to them being inferior to the originals. Basically on the outside they look the same but on the inside the Asuran vessels use cobbled together bits of ancient knowledge.

    Some may say the Asurans had access to lantians in 'the return' they should have got more intimate knowledge then. However we know that you can build up resistance to mind probing, O'neill was able to resist somewhat its possible the more advanced/evolved ancient minds were able to fend off the Replicator probe somewhat.

    Thoughts?
    Robert Jastrow (self-proclaimed agnostic): "For the scientist who has lived by his faith in the power of reason, the story ends like a bad dream. He has scaled the mountains of ignorance; he is about to conquer the highest peak; as he pulls himself over the final rock, he is greeted by a band of theologians who have been sitting there for centuries."

    #2
    well maybe in terms of tactics, not that smart maybe when the wraith uploaded the virus it might of disabled some of its programs like tactics, defense abilities, war for artificial intelligence

    for adavanced machines they are quite stupid, their cityship should detect ships approaching and the rate of fire from those ships was ridiculaous

    their level of technology is impressive since coming from the ruins of the ancient desruction of them
    sigpic

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      #3
      They had a whole city, not just a ship, they should have had a massive advanced warning.
      Best quotes ever:
      O’NEILL: I hope you like Guinness, Sir. I find it a refreshing substitute for food.
      Jack O'neill: I hope you diplomatically told him where to shove it.
      Teal'c:If you once again try to harm me or one of my companions, my patience with you will expire.
      Carter: You know, you blow up one sun and suddenly everyone expects you to walk on water.
      Thor:I like the yellow ones
      O´Neill:Hey, if you had been listening, you´d know that Nintendos pass through everything.

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        #4
        The reality is the Asurans felled into a giant black PLOT HOLE.

        Otherwise, there is no way the fleet of just 14 would have survived.

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by Buba uognarf
          Ok I've seen several people arguing that the Asurans must have had ancient level technology etc...and had all their knowledge. This thread is basically to discuss the Asurans technology or lack of in some area's.

          Despite what seems logical the Asurans seem to preform much worse with apparently the same technology as the Ancients, for example the Orion could obliterate a Hive ship in seconds while with an entire fleet the Asurans could only destroy a single hive out of 7 not through lack of trying. Another example is despite having a mega city and possible city ships they were unable to detect the approach of the fleet even when they were right on top of them. Compare this to Atlantis which can detect hives weeks away from them.

          Clearly the Asurans aren't as advanced as the ancients, their ships in top condition preformed at a fraction of the level of a badly damaged ancient Aurora. Even factoring in the power of the new Asgard technology the Ancient aurora and the Asuran aurora being the same strength doesn't add up.

          My theory is this, the Asurans never had access to full Ancient military knowledge. They simply observed it. They know large parts of ancient technology but not how it fits together. So in the case of their ships they knew what the ships looked like from experience but filled in the internal systems themselves leading to them being inferior to the originals. Basically on the outside they look the same but on the inside the Asuran vessels use cobbled together bits of ancient knowledge.

          Some may say the Asurans had access to lantians in 'the return' they should have got more intimate knowledge then. However we know that you can build up resistance to mind probing, O'neill was able to resist somewhat its possible the more advanced/evolved ancient minds were able to fend off the Replicator probe somewhat.

          Thoughts?
          yet they were evidently better at making ZPMs than the ancients themselves, and ZPMs are the most advanced powersource shown as of yet in the SG-verse (aside from the Trinity prototype)

          also what about the asuran city (the one McKay blew up in the very 1st episode feat. the asurans) - wasn't that an ancient city ship ? sure looked like one
          if so the asurans would've studied the city it & acquired ancient tech (since replicators are supposed to be good at assimilating alien tech)

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by SoulRe@ver View Post
            yet they were evidently better at making ZPMs than the ancients themselves, and ZPMs are the most advanced powersource shown as of yet in the SG-verse (aside from the Trinity prototype)

            also what about the asuran city (the one McKay blew up in the very 1st episode feat. the asurans) - wasn't that an ancient city ship ? sure looked like one
            if so the asurans would've studied the city it & acquired ancient tech (since replicators are supposed to be good at assimilating alien tech)
            How do we know they're better at making ZPMs? They've been free to build them for thousands of years. How do you know their ancient city ship was as good as the real deal? If it was why would they want to capture atlantis.

            IMO a lot of the Asurans was appearance they appeared to have all the ancients gizmo's but were unable to fully back it up. They obviously have a lot of the ancient knowledge but not all of it.
            Robert Jastrow (self-proclaimed agnostic): "For the scientist who has lived by his faith in the power of reason, the story ends like a bad dream. He has scaled the mountains of ignorance; he is about to conquer the highest peak; as he pulls himself over the final rock, he is greeted by a band of theologians who have been sitting there for centuries."

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by Buba uognarf View Post
              How do we know they're better at making ZPMs? They've been free to build them for thousands of years. How do you know their ancient city ship was as good as the real deal? If it was why would they want to capture atlantis.

              IMO a lot of the Asurans was appearance they appeared to have all the ancients gizmo's but were unable to fully back it up. They obviously have a lot of the ancient knowledge but not all of it.
              Yep, that's how I see it. At least this is the only possible explanation for why we could defeat them. If they possessed all the knowledge of the Ancients we'd be toast.

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by Buba uognarf
                How do we know they're better at making ZPMs? They've been free to build them for thousands of years. How do you know their ancient city ship was as good as the real deal? If it was why would they want to capture atlantis.

                IMO a lot of the Asurans was appearance they appeared to have all the ancients gizmo's but were unable to fully back it up. They obviously have a lot of the ancient knowledge but not all of it.
                but the ancients were far more...ancient :|
                they too could've built many more ZPMs over millions of years yet manifestly that wasn't the case
                the asurans on the other hand didn't appear to suffer from any ZPM shortages, they had enough power to wipe out the wraith (and they would have, if not for help from the humans)

                so u think the asuran city was just a replica ?
                (it was never stated they were interested in Atlantis itself, just getting revenge on the lanteans etc.)

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by SoulRe@ver View Post
                  but the ancients were far more...ancient :|
                  they too could've built many more ZPMs over millions of years yet manifestly that wasn't the case
                  the asurans on the other hand didn't appear to suffer from any ZPM shortages, they had enough power to wipe out the wraith (and they would have, if not for help from the humans)

                  so u think the asuran city was just a replica ?
                  (it was never stated they were interested in Atlantis itself, just getting revenge on the lanteans etc.)
                  But the ancients moved around and only built ZPMs when needed. We've encounted/heard of many ZPMs across Pegasus. The truth is we don't know how easy it is for ZPMs to be made or how many the Ancients potentially had. The Wraith aren't as tough as they used to be though, I don't those Aurora knock offs could have handled the Wraith at the height of their war with the Ancients.

                  They wanted to capture Atlantis. Anyway the evidence is in the show Asuran replica ancient tech is inferior to the real thing.
                  Robert Jastrow (self-proclaimed agnostic): "For the scientist who has lived by his faith in the power of reason, the story ends like a bad dream. He has scaled the mountains of ignorance; he is about to conquer the highest peak; as he pulls himself over the final rock, he is greeted by a band of theologians who have been sitting there for centuries."

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by Buba uognarf
                    Anyway the evidence is in the show Asuran replica ancient tech is inferior to the real thing.
                    huh I guess that's true since Joe Malozzi said it himself, so it's gonna be hard to say otherwise this time


                    so...is it possible the MW replicators were more advanced than the PG ones ?
                    if it had been the asgard vs the PG replicators instead, would the asgard have won ?

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by SoulRe@ver View Post
                      huh I guess that's true since Joe Malozzi said it himself, so it's gonna be hard to say otherwise this time


                      so...is it possible the MW replicators were more advanced than the PG ones ?
                      if it had been the asgard vs the PG replicators instead, would the asgard have won ?
                      Well its evident from the performance of the Asuran Aurora's...Well I doubt the MW replicators were more advanced in weapons technology, power generation and things...maybe in some area's. I think the Asgard would have been destroyed by the Asurans until recently the Asgard were far behind the Ancients technologically IMO. Hopefully we may see the Asurans be more powerful in season 5...with less of them they can be more powerful individually.

                      I still remember our will drones penetrate ori shields debate lol
                      Robert Jastrow (self-proclaimed agnostic): "For the scientist who has lived by his faith in the power of reason, the story ends like a bad dream. He has scaled the mountains of ignorance; he is about to conquer the highest peak; as he pulls himself over the final rock, he is greeted by a band of theologians who have been sitting there for centuries."

                      Comment


                        #12
                        They where coming to atlantis to destroy it in progeny, but in the return where aiming to steal it to replase there destroyed ship.

                        I always belived they had built there tec from what they had seen of the ancents they where on a research planet when they where created if im not mistaken so probley sore things like ZPM creation.

                        U would think after however many thosonds of years they would have developed some beter ships.

                        O'Neill: Now, raise your right hand and repeat after me: I, insert name.



                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by Buba uognarf
                          Well its evident from the performance of the Asuran Aurora's...Well I doubt the MW replicators were more advanced in weapons technology, power generation and things...maybe in some area's. I think the Asgard would have been destroyed by the Asurans until recently the Asgard were far behind the Ancients technologically IMO. Hopefully we may see the Asurans be more powerful in season 5...with less of them they can be more powerful individually.
                          yet I get the impression the MW replicators would've put up a much better fight in BASMR, even against the travelers' Ancient ships...
                          remember the replicator ships ? they had two models both very advanced (the first type defeated Apophis' supership and the second was made of nanites & could escape a black hole) those were impressive ships..

                          anyway if the asurans didn't have full ancient tech then the writers should've brought back the real replicators, these ones at least couldn't be conveniently reprogrammed (hey that's another inconsistency btw) and they would've made a much better enemy


                          Originally posted by Buba uognarf
                          I still remember our will drones penetrate ori shields debate lol
                          yup and I remember you conceded defeat, I also remember we had an agreement about the debate (the stakes, I mean) hm hm ^_^
                          Last edited by SoulReaver; 05 February 2008, 02:41 PM.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            The whole Asuran thing just got so out of hands that the TPTB just wanted to get rid if them one way or another even if it meant PLOT HOLE as big as the BLACK HOLE in the centre of the MW.

                            1. In "Progeny" we were told that the Lanteans stop building bigger weapons and focused on smaller nanites tech to kill the Wraith from within. (I thought they were building a nano virus to take down the Wraith like the one Rodney and the rest of scientist released.\0

                            2. Niem later said that the nanites decided to take the form of their creators. Some how they turned from nano machines to human form replicators? That's why they decided to wipe them out as they sow them as failed experiment that never would've worked?

                            3. In BAMSR we found out that the Lanteans actually had a machine that made human form replicators out of the blue? (All that time I though that they assembled themselves to take the form and look of their creators, NOT that the Lanteans actually made them human form all along?)

                            So through out the season(s) they kept changing the back story of the Asurans to suit themselves for the particular episode. No wonder they end up wiped out by HUMANS with only 14 ships and the magic plot shield which protects every human in Atlantis.

                            I was surprised to see the Asurans so down played through out the SGA S3 & S4 they had Lantean level of technology yes Lantean not imitation or anything else. They had pure Lantean tech because:

                            1.They had ZPMs in near infinite number, as stated by Niem and Oberoth alike. (Why they did not used them or why were their ships so weak I can only answer with Plot hole?)

                            2. They knew about ascension something that all Lanteans strove for during their stay in the PG. This proves that they had very delicate and precise knowledge of what Lanteans knew also.

                            3.They probed the minds of the crew of Tria when they returned back to Atlantis. If they did not had all of the knowledge of the Lanteans by this time for whatever reasons, they sure should have got it now for sure. We also know that every Asuran is stored in the Main Core vie sub-space link with the rest of he Asurans and is able to transfer and share every information it knows with the rest of them in a instance(Repli-Carter-Replicators; Oberoth-Niem)

                            So this proves IMO that the Asurans were destined for the worst place in Stargate since their beginning THE MASIVE STARGATE VERSE PLOT HOLE

                            Tain
                            Last edited by tainor; 05 February 2008, 03:15 PM.

                            sigpic

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                              #15
                              We do know that the ships were inferior to the ancient ones, i think the battle fell short of what we thought it would be, but perhaps the ships in orbit had run out of drones, we also know that the asurans had been doing a good job against the wraith and then started to kill us there food supply so we had to act. Also it seems they only had 1 city ship, which we destroyed and the wraith had shut them down at the end of the ancient wraith war so they probably were not military minded after that, and the wraith figured they wont attack us now so lets leave them alone. Also the asurans probably didnt have a ton of zpms because in this mortal coil
                              Spoiler:
                              were says how they couldnt take many without arousing suspicion, so they probably were not in overabundance
                              And a zpm dosent make you all powerfull either. It seems the asurans are like cloning, you get a less effective model from the original.
                              sigpic


                              Surely you cant be serious, I am serious and dont call me shirly.

                              Danmit. What is it Oneil? I forgot to tape the simpsons .... Its important to me

                              Sir i think you have gone mad with power.
                              Ofcourse I have, have you ever gone mad without power, its no fun, noone listens to you

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