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GateWorld
January 30th, 2008, 07:15 PM
<DIV ALIGN="center"><TABLE WIDTH="450" BORDER="0" CELLSPACING="0" CELLPADDING="7"><TR><TD><DIV ALIGN="left"><FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial, san-serif" SIZE="2" COLOR="#000000"><A HREF="http://www.gateworld.net/atlantis/s4/420.shtml"><IMG SRC="http://www.gateworld.net/atlantis/graphics/420.jpg" WIDTH="160" HEIGHT="120" ALIGN="right" HSPACE="10" VSPACE="2" BORDER="0" STYLE="border: 1px black solid" ALT="Visit the Episode Guide"></A><FONT SIZE="1" COLOR="#888888">ATLANTIS SEASON FOUR</FONT>
<FONT SIZE="4"><A HREF="http://www.gateworld.net/atlantis/s4/420.shtml" STYLE="text-decoration: none">THE LAST MAN</A></FONT>
<FONT SIZE="1">EPISODE NUMBER - 420</FONT>
<IMG SRC="/images/clear.gif" WIDTH="1" HEIGHT="10" ALT="">
Sheppard returns to Atlantis after a mission and finds the city abandoned, all systems dead -- and instead of ocean, sand dunes as far as the eye can see.

<FONT SIZE="1" COLOR="#888888"><B><A HREF="http://www.gateworld.net/atlantis/s4/420.shtml">VISIT THE EPISODE GUIDE ></A></B>
SPOILERS! PHOTOS! AND MORE!</FONT></FONT></DIV></TD></TR></TABLE></DIV>

Yashiv
March 7th, 2008, 06:51 PM
Todd and General Lorne!!!!!!! woohoo!!

MartianManhunter
March 7th, 2008, 06:55 PM
Probably the best finale EVER!!!

technoextreme
March 7th, 2008, 07:00 PM
Wow. Im extremely confused.

Sweetsong
March 7th, 2008, 07:00 PM
I don't know why Rodney's explanation of how all the major players died seemed kind forced.

Funniest part was where the holo - Rodney's memory got a little fuzzy on whether or not Zelenka was actually there helping get sam's ship "The Phoenix" in order.

Holy Cliff hanger ending too.

At least the aging make-up looked far better in this episode than it did in SG-1s season 10 finale.

Pharaoh Atem
March 7th, 2008, 07:01 PM
Now that's how you end a season !!!!!!!!

AGateFan
March 7th, 2008, 07:02 PM
Ronan goes down working side by side with a wraith. I guess that is irony.
Also irony that they seemed to spend the most time on the two new characters fate. Teyla lost out again on any kind of character development.

I did like Carters "end" here much better then in unending though.
Also I must say....OMFG Woolsey looks worse in those stupid new uniforms than Carter does. For the love of god REPLACE THE UNIFORMS...or leave Woolsey in civvies next year.

So will carter get a ship? Is that how she will be written off the show, that would be nice.

Mckay and Keller ship eh...meh....blah.... No ships except space ships and as few of those as possible on Stargate is my motto.

Loren makes general I think was written just for Shadowmaat

Why does Michael have a black and white TV hooked up to all his super gear?
Oh Nooos will they ever survive?

I liked the ep well enough, except for the very end. I didn’t find it particularly suspenseful just a standard annoying end of season cliffhanger.

Yashiv
March 7th, 2008, 07:03 PM
I wonder what they did with Carson:beckett:

CKO
March 7th, 2008, 07:03 PM
damn evil TBC,

but i do love the Gen. Lorne part though...

and a tear jerker as well...

is it safe to say i want S5 right now.

Pharaoh Atem
March 7th, 2008, 07:04 PM
Wow. Im extremely confused.

how so??

GATEGOD
March 7th, 2008, 07:06 PM
I liked the ep well enough, except for the very end. I didn’t find it particularly suspenseful just a standard annoying end of season cliffhanger.

Completely agree with your last bit :p It's not like they are really going to die.. why show everything collapsing in on them..

Rickington
March 7th, 2008, 07:06 PM
Awesome episode.

Interesting cliffhanger in the end

I hope everyone survived the building collapsing in the end...

technoextreme
March 7th, 2008, 07:06 PM
how so??
Im trying to think of the logical continuation. They clearly are screwed in the last scene but how do they get out of it.
It's not like they are really going to die.. why show everything collapsing in on them..
Actually that's one of my theories. McKay survives and then tells Shepard via a hologram in the future that Scooty Puff Scooters suck.

Xicer
March 7th, 2008, 07:06 PM
Haha I think I really liked this episode but I guess I was a bit disappointed that it was mostly made up of AU flashbacks. Nevertheless its still one of my favorite S4 episodes, better than Kindred IMO. Sorta reminded me of Voyager's "Year of Hell" especially the part where Sam rams into the Hive ship just just like when Janeway rammed into the Krenim ship. And this was also a lot like SG-1's "2010" but told from a different perspective.

I can see what you mean by Rodney's explanations of everyone's fates being forced, but that's just what it was supposed to be. Sheppard asking what happened to all his teammates was the plot device used to show us what happened in the AU when Sheppard disappeared.

And as for the ending...well I liked it better than last season's.

GeneralLuckyAC
March 7th, 2008, 07:06 PM
One thing.. WTF

Talk about your endings...

daniel9
March 7th, 2008, 07:07 PM
i still think the replicators/asurans were involved with this lol

SpikeBad
March 7th, 2008, 07:07 PM
Favorite thing about the ep... General Lorne!!!

Falcon 304
March 7th, 2008, 07:07 PM
Are you serious!? I HAVE TO WAIT UNTIL SEPTEMBERish TO FIND OUT WHAT HAPPENS!?!?!?!?! AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHH!!!!!!!!

:sheppardanime32:

s09119
March 7th, 2008, 07:08 PM
I loved "Future Earth," but what I want to know is; was the cool stuff we saw 25+ years in the future due to human advances alone or was the stargate revealed?

Pharaoh Atem
March 7th, 2008, 07:08 PM
Im trying to think of the logical continuation. They clearly are screwed in the last scene but how do they get out of it.
the building probably falls in a such a way that the team is stuck but not crushed

KindlyKeller
March 7th, 2008, 07:09 PM
Awesome finale. I always love when they do those "glimpse into a world gone wrong" episodes, and this one was great. I loved the dark atmosphere they had, and like in "Before I Sleep," I liked how the reveals were spread out over the episode, intercut with Shep and Old McKay.

And obviously, I loved the McKay/Keller sub-plot, but it just broke my heart when Rodney got the prognosis about Jen, and she tried (knowing she didn't have a chance) to convince him not to spend the rest of his life on his research.

Pharaoh Atem
March 7th, 2008, 07:09 PM
Are you serious!? I HAVE TO WAIT UNTIL SEPTEMBERish TO FIND OUT WHAT HAPPENS!?!?!?!?! AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHH!!!!!!!!

:sheppardanime32:

this summer actually

Vala_M
March 7th, 2008, 07:10 PM
Simply AMAZING!

What an episode! I really felt like this was all for real and not "Just TV" to the max!

Sheppard 48000 years in the future! I wonder why they picked a planet that's sun would burn out in such a short time. But then again, maybe they didn't think it would matter. Why was Atlantis abandoned? I wish we got an explanation on that.

Seeing all the characters die wasn't as bad as it was in "Unending" for SG-1, at least they went out in the wrong timeline fighting. Carter in command of the Phoenix, I wonder if the Phoenix will still be built in season 5 or not. I hope not since the design of the ship's interior was ugly. Michael got himself some hive ships! Cool. Why would Teyla's baby be so important in his research? That part didn't make sense to me. I like that Ronon started his own force against Michael. It was nice to see Todd as well. McKay and Keller together was unexpected for me. It was sad that she died as well. At least McKay survived. All those years and McKay never figured out how to make more ZPM's, that was another weird part. Mark XII Naqahdah generator! Wow! McKay wasn't so much of a hologram as he was an artificial intelligence. That part was pretty cool. I just expected him to say what happend and that was it but he was interactive. Atlantis in the sand was way cool. Woolsey in command of Atlantis was TERRIBLE. I hope he gets a personality change in season 5 or I know that it will be the last season! I was kind of disappointed that we didn't get to see Sheppard exit the stasis pod and go back through the gate. I figured the episode would end with Sheppard stepping through the gate from future Atlantis but he actually made it back! We all know that the team survives the destruction of Michael's compound but how are they going to survive that?

The coolest and most intense episode ever and the most original season finale for Stargate ever in my opinion!

Vala,

freyr's mother
March 7th, 2008, 07:10 PM
Okay, what the hell is with the ship inconsistencies, im sick of it. For some reason, in unending, the odyssey was able to get back into the milky way before their shields had even finished recharging, yet it still takes the Daedalus 3 weeks to make the trip to atlantis and back. Also, there's no way that 4 hives can destroy a 304 that quickly. In AoT, the odyssey takess on maybe 10 minutes of ori beam weapons fire until the shield fails. I mean seriously. fraking plot shields! And besides that, WTF happened to the nukes. They fire missiles that actually end up striking the hive ship, and they arent nukes? What sense is that?

FN-P90
March 7th, 2008, 07:11 PM
That was awsome i was on the edge of my seat the hole time!!!!

:sheppard::mckay::ronan::teyla::sam:

technoextreme
March 7th, 2008, 07:11 PM
Why would Teyla's baby be so important in his research? That part didn't make sense to me.
That's actually a spoiler for the last episode. Essentially:
The baby is unique in the fact that the parents are two Wraith/Human hybrids.
Okay, what the hell is with the ship inconsistencies, im sick of it. For some reason, in unending, the odyssey was able to get back into the milky way before their shields had even finished recharging, yet it still takes the Daedalus 3 weeks to make the trip to atlantis and back. Also, there's no way that 4 hives can destroy a 304 that quickly. In AoT,
It could just be because it was a rush job. It would be like the Top Gear Episode where the crew attempt to build a kit car in a few hours. Pieces are misplaced. Non essentially parts are left off.

AGateFan
March 7th, 2008, 07:12 PM
Haha I think I really liked this episode but I guess I was a bit disappointed that it was mostly made up of AU flashbacks. Nevertheless its still one of my favorite S4 episodes, better than Kindred IMO. Sorta reminded me of Voyager's "Year of Hell" especially the part where Sam rams into the Hive ship just just like when Janeway rammed into the Krenim ship. And this was also a lot like SG-1's "2010" but told from a different perspective.

I can see what you mean by Rodney's explanations of everyone's fates being forced, but that's just what it was supposed to be. Sheppard asking what happened to all his teammates was the plot device used to show us what happened in the AU when Sheppard disappeared.

And as for the ending...well I liked it better than last season's.
Hey I watched the end of Year of Hell today. Everytime I watch it though I cant help thinking how much better it could have been if at least one person had memories of the events that occurred. As it is, it never really happened in all senses of it "never happened"...no witnesses to it at all.

So from that standpoint I like this ep and before I Sleep much better then year of Hell. Carter raming the enemy ship did remind me of the Janeway thing, but its also what Hammond was going to do to Anubis and also it was done by about every captian on every scifi show at some point, its apparently a pretty standard space ship manuever for self sacraficing captians.

ladyjanus
March 7th, 2008, 07:12 PM
Excellent episode, fantastic season finale...

General Lorne!!!!!!

OMGhowlongdoIhavetowaituntilthenewseason?OMGOMGOMG...

One quibble...Not even a hint of a heart to heart goodbye-just-in-case scene between McKay and Shephard? Give me a break...

ladyjanus

s09119
March 7th, 2008, 07:13 PM
Okay, what the hell is with the ship inconsistencies, im sick of it. For some reason, in unending, the odyssey was able to get back into the milky way before their shields had even finished recharging, yet it still takes the Daedalus 3 weeks to make the trip to atlantis and back. Also, there's no way that 4 hives can destroy a 304 that quickly. In AoT, the odyssey takess on maybe 10 minutes of ori beam weapons fire until the shield fails. I mean seriously. ******* plot shields!

No. The Odyssey has a ZPM.

idlewild202
March 7th, 2008, 07:13 PM
I rather enjoyed this episode.

It was a different way to end a season, in the past we've had ship battles, blow 'em up, explosions, action, shot 'em up bam bam bang sort of deal. This episode was more thought provoking, more... well, I'm not really sure how to put it. The stories of how all the team met their demise was rather doom and gloom, it gave the episode a very very different feel to it. A feel I can't quite place my finger on.

Rodney/Keller ship..... ummmm ewww :s ....moving on

Michael, that character is simply genius. Pure and simple genius. He is evil, crafty, smart, twisted, devious, and just plain AMAZING! He is one of my favorite villians. The whole galaxy in under a year? That is simply breathtaking if you think about it.

Ahh... Lorne as General! THAT made my day, oh I loved it! I'm am such a fangirl sometimes.

The ending was quite the "OMIGOSH what the hell is going to happen" type of season ending cliffhanger we are used to. If they had shown the building collapsing differently it might have been better, just the single shot from the outside was rather boring. This is my only quibble, IMO the ending could have been done better.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again, with the exception of one or two episodes the second half of this season has been BRILLIANT!

Bring on Season Five baby! :D

wheresmyfroggy
March 7th, 2008, 07:13 PM
Aw, such an awesome episode! Ronon's death was the best one, he and Todd working together, smiling at each other before they detonate the C-4. Brothers in arms, finally! They are so similar, it was bound to happen (even if it's AU now).

Ronon: "I was just gonna blow it up."
Todd: "Naturally."

Lt. Ford
March 7th, 2008, 07:14 PM
Nice episode. Everything turns south after Shep disappears. Nice. Anyways, I really liked it. I can't wait until we get to see the start of season 5 to find out what happened.

One problem for me, Sheppard goes to the stasis chamber room and not even a mention of Carson? He just got frozen in there the last episode and they don't even mention what happens to him... Wow...

FN-P90
March 7th, 2008, 07:15 PM
The coolest and most intense episode ever and the most original season finale for Stargate ever in my opinion!

Vala,

I agree that was the best by far.

technoextreme
March 7th, 2008, 07:15 PM
No. The Odyssey has a ZPM.
Heh. I forgot about that.

Night Marshal
March 7th, 2008, 07:16 PM
thats was by far one of the lamest things I have seen in some time. Can't solve plot in the here and now send someone the future. Can't make a good Cliff-hanger lets just "kill" everyone.

Lame end to the second best season I expected better. But then then again it was JM/PM script

LinziDay
March 7th, 2008, 07:16 PM
Any guesses on who dies? I'm thinking someone has to.... and I'm thinking that someone is Lorne. (after all, he was the only one with any kind of a happy ending in the other timeline and he's the one who ultimately made this timeline possible.)

jenks
March 7th, 2008, 07:17 PM
Aw, such an awesome episode! Ronon's death was the best one, he and Todd working together, smiling at each other before they detonate the C-4. Brothers in arms, finally! They are so similar, it was bound to happen (even if it's AU now).

Ronon: "I was just gonna blow it up."
Todd: "Naturally."

This is the one part of the episode that I really disliked to be honest, really out of character in my opinion. Ronon would have shot him on site, and enjoyed it. I hate the way they seem to be treating Todd almost as a friend, as if they've all just turned simple and forgotten that he kills innocent humans on a regular basis...

prion
March 7th, 2008, 07:17 PM
this was the scifi version of IT'S A WONDERFUL LIFE. one person missing, everything goes to hell, although we didn't have clarence the angel, we had rodney the hologram.

i quite enjoyed it, didn't mind the cliffhanger as geez, do we really think the entire team got squashed? maybe one or two unfortunate redshirts who had no dialogue.

but this means that in the very first episode, they will rescue teyla (cuz this ain't a soap they can drag out forever).

only thing that I went eeeeuuuu at. woolsey. not woolsey per se, but that uniform just looks awful on him. sorry, color is all off and well, gah.....

and teensy quibble that sam s hould hardly quibble shep's story all that much considering all the time travel SG1 has done!

if a series lasts long enough, you can do these time travel 'what might have been' scenarios to explore killing characters without really blowing them up exploding space tumors, 'shipping' without commitment. so they can do another one when they reach, say, season 10.... ;)

s09119
March 7th, 2008, 07:17 PM
Heh. I forgot about that.

No biggie :) Plus...There were Replicators onboard in AoT, and we know how they love to boost shields...
Besides, hive weapons are amongst the most powerful in Stargate. We also saw Michael blow apart a hive in under 3 seconds, don't forget :O

jenks
March 7th, 2008, 07:17 PM
Any guesses on who dies? I'm thinking someone has to.... and I'm thinking that someone is Lorne. (after all, he was the only one with any kind of a happy ending in the other timeline and he's the one who ultimately made this timeline possible.)

That wouldn't surprise me, JM did mention something about killing Lorne in jest on his blog...

Myles
March 7th, 2008, 07:18 PM
thats was by far one of the lamest things I have seen in some time. Can't solve plot in the here and now send someone the future. Can't make a good Cliff-hanger lets just "kill" everyone.

Lame end to the second best season I expected better. But then then again it was JM/PM script

Sorry to hear that, but I'd say you're in the minority. Yeah, everyone knows that the team will be fine, but in all it was a good episode imo.

Briangate78
March 7th, 2008, 07:18 PM
This season was missing one thing. An amazing cliffhanger finale! So there we go. Season 4 has been great! It is following it's Big Brother!

Pharaoh Atem
March 7th, 2008, 07:19 PM
Sorry to hear that, but I'd say you're in the minority. Yeah, everyone knows that the team will be fine, but in all it was a good episode imo.

but there will be injuries ...and i'm sure the red shirt will be forgotten

DigiFluid
March 7th, 2008, 07:21 PM
I liked the ep well enough, except for the very end. I didn’t find it particularly suspenseful just a standard annoying end of season cliffhanger.

Completely agree.

While I don't think this was as good an episode as the last few weeks' eps have been, it has an interesting quality to it that'll make rewatching it a rewarding experience. It has the same sort of interesting "different" quality to it that episodes like Wormhole X-Treme! or Sunday have, a plot and story so wildly different from the norm that it's fascinating to watch over and over.

I think this episode was also interesting in that it established a lot of important plot points that will be worth exploring in the upcoming season. A cue from BSG perhaps, but a good one nonetheless. Can't wait to see how season 5 plays out now. This was a far, far better season finale than the embarassment that was 'First Strike' last year.

All that said though, what a lousy TBC. Not suspenseful in the least, really just aggravating and tacked on for the hell of it. The finale would have been infinitely more effective if it had ended when Sheppard came through the gate and said "we're on the clock."

Yashiv
March 7th, 2008, 07:22 PM
This is the one part of the episode that I really disliked to be honest, really out of character in my opinion. Ronon would have shot him on site, and enjoyed it. I hate the way they seem to be treating Todd almost as a friend, as if they've all just turned simple and forgotten that he kills innocent humans on a regular basis...

Keep you friends close and your enemies closer ;)

idlewild202
March 7th, 2008, 07:22 PM
Any guesses on who dies? I'm thinking someone has to.... and I'm thinking that someone is Lorne. (after all, he was the only one with any kind of a happy ending in the other timeline and he's the one who ultimately made this timeline possible.)Nope, Lorne does not die. That I can tell you for sure.


this was the scifi version of IT'S A WONDERFUL LIFE. one person missing, everything goes to hell, although we didn't have clarence the angel, we had rodney the hologram.Ha! That is so true! I never thought of it that way, great analogy.


and teensy quibble that sam s hould hardly quibble shep's story all that much considering all the time travel SG1 has done!Especially considering all the times SHE has had to explain with her team to someone what they just went through, you would think she, of all people, would believe Sheppard the most.

Myles
March 7th, 2008, 07:22 PM
but there will be injuries ...and i'm sure the red shirt will be forgotten

Well of course they'll lose the red shirts;), but it should be interesting to see how this all plays out.

prion
March 7th, 2008, 07:22 PM
That wouldn't surprise me, JM did mention something about killing Lorne in jest on his blog...

I don't think they want to risk fandom flaming up again by killing Lorne, and besides, why kill him? He's a good character.


but there will be injuries ...and i'm sure the red shirt will be forgotten

that's it, taunt us poor whump fans with promises of injuries. we'll be lucky if anybody is even sporting a bandaid after the building fell in ;)

technoextreme
March 7th, 2008, 07:24 PM
Any guesses on who dies? I'm thinking someone has to.... and I'm thinking that someone is Lorne. (after all, he was the only one with any kind of a happy ending in the other timeline and he's the one who ultimately made this timeline possible.)


Sorry to hear that, but I'd say you're in the minority. Yeah, everyone knows that the team will be fine, but in all it was a good episode imo.
Actually, Im hoping they all die and it turns into another time traveling episode only without the backstory. Of course I don't even remember how time travel works in Stargate

Pharaoh Atem
March 7th, 2008, 07:25 PM
I feel so bad for Rodney he spent so much of his life just to deal with this one problem and losing jennifer. nice to see Jeanie for a little while.

s09119
March 7th, 2008, 07:27 PM
I feel so bad for Rodney he spent so much of his life just to deal with this one problem and losing jennifer. nice to see jennie for a little while.

Agreed. I didn't expect Jeanie, and I thought Keller was perfect in this episode.

Ruffles
March 7th, 2008, 07:27 PM
I think I need to let it soak in for a while. First impression - I loved it. JM said it was very different than previous season finales, and he was right. Action, but not running for their lives with their hair on fire (well, except for the last 30 seconds) like others have been. This was more introspective - a look at how they would choose to live and die. It was heartbreaking to watch as one by one they sacrificed their lives. And poor Rodney. To be left alone, obsessed with righting what he considered wrong.

The irony of Ronon and Todd going out together kills me. Can I say how much I loved Keller in this? I am not normally a shipper, but I could live with that one. I wonder if they knew about AT's decision when they wrote in the person who replaced Carter after she died. General Lorne!! That was awesome.

I didn't expect the plan to be completed in this ep. That was a real surprise for me. *happy to be spoiler free* And the big explosion at the end! Eek!


Nice episode. Everything turns south after Shep disappears. Nice. Anyways, I really liked it. I can't wait until we get to see the start of season 5 to find out what happened.

One problem for me, Sheppard goes to the stasis chamber room and not even a mention of Carson? He just got frozen in there the last episode and they don't even mention what happens to him... Wow...

I was thinking about that, and here's my take on it. Woolsey told Keller they wouldn't continue the research on the Hoffan drug, that he was scaling back her department to concentrate on the defense of the base. She got fed up and left. Who would be left to research the peptide thing? No one. I'm sure Sheppard put 2 and 2 together and figured out that they let Carson die.


this was the scifi version of IT'S A WONDERFUL LIFE. one person missing, everything goes to hell, although we didn't have clarence the angel, we had rodney the hologram.

i quite enjoyed it, didn't mind the cliffhanger as geez, do we really think the entire team got squashed? maybe one or two unfortunate redshirts who had no dialogue.

but this means that in the very first episode, they will rescue teyla (cuz this ain't a soap they can drag out forever).

only thing that I went eeeeuuuu at. woolsey. not woolsey per se, but that uniform just looks awful on him. sorry, color is all off and well, gah.....

and teensy quibble that sam s hould hardly quibble shep's story all that much considering all the time travel SG1 has done!

if a series lasts long enough, you can do these time travel 'what might have been' scenarios to explore killing characters without really blowing them up exploding space tumors, 'shipping' without commitment. so they can do another one when they reach, say, season 10.... ;)

I don't know that Sam so much quibbled over the time travel as his hurry to get back out there. Even though she has personal knowledge that time travel is possible, there are lots of other more likely explanations on where Sheppard's been for 12 days. When you add in him wanting to leave again so quickly, she was right to be cautious.

airelle
March 7th, 2008, 07:29 PM
Really liked this episode, McKay did a good job ,glad it was fixable,solar flares, watch out for those buggers. And Woosley did look a tad bit uncomfortable with his uniform, a tug almost at the collar?,anyway,looking forward to season 5, and 6 and so on ...:cool:

jenks
March 7th, 2008, 07:29 PM
I don't think they want to risk fandom flaming up again by killing Lorne, and besides, why kill him? He's a good character.


I don't really think he is to be honest. He's likable enough, but not particularly interesting and I don't think the show would lose anything if he were killed off.

GateLadyM
March 7th, 2008, 07:30 PM
This was so-so for me. I did like Ronon and Todd dying together, and loved Gen. Lorne. Keller dying was wonderful. Too bad it doesn't happen in the real timeline. ;)

Woolsey. Sigh. Just shows how irritating this is going to become next year. He is a mistake.

s09119
March 7th, 2008, 07:32 PM
This was so-so for me. I did like Ronon and Todd dying together, and loved Gen. Lorne. Keller dying was wonderful. Too bad it doesn't happen in the real timeline. ;)

Woolsey. Sigh. Just shows how irritating this is going to become next year. He is a mistake.

I resent that comment :/

As for Woolsey, I think it'll be great to finally have someone who doesn't cave in to Sheppard and Co. all the time. Create some actual semblance of a solid command with rules and such for once...

Ruffles
March 7th, 2008, 07:33 PM
Aw, such an awesome episode! Ronon's death was the best one, he and Todd working together, smiling at each other before they detonate the C-4. Brothers in arms, finally! They are so similar, it was bound to happen (even if it's AU now).

Ronon: "I was just gonna blow it up."
Todd: "Naturally."

That was a great line. My love for Todd knows no bounds.


Any guesses on who dies? I'm thinking someone has to.... and I'm thinking that someone is Lorne. (after all, he was the only one with any kind of a happy ending in the other timeline and he's the one who ultimately made this timeline possible.)

I don't think any of them will die. Of course, the Shep whumper in my hopes for some consequences at least, but I anticipate them escaping much like Ronon did in that exploding building in Sateda.

Myles
March 7th, 2008, 07:33 PM
This was so-so for me. I did like Ronon and Todd dying together, and loved Gen. Lorne. Keller dying was wonderful. Too bad it doesn't happen in the real timeline. ;)

Woolsey. Sigh. Just shows how irritating this is going to become next year. He is a mistake.

As much as I hate the character, I find the dynamic created by it very interesting. Plus, I'm expecting a change of attitude as he builds relationships with the characters.

KindlyKeller
March 7th, 2008, 07:34 PM
Wow, "enjoying" Keller's death.

Anyway, that part was just heartbreaking. Poor Rodney's face at the hospital.

AGateFan
March 7th, 2008, 07:34 PM
I resent that comment :/

As for Woolsey, I think it'll be great to finally have someone who doesn't cave in to Sheppard and Co. all the time. Create some actual semblance of a solid command with rules and such for once...
No point in him "caving" since you will now have a "leader" everyone will just ignore. Think Shep and McKay did what they wanted before, I bet you aint seen nothing yet

GateLadyM
March 7th, 2008, 07:35 PM
I resent that comment :/

So we don't kill Keller. Then she can hit on Woolsey and they would make a great couple, whining and nagging each other to death. I can't wait. :S

ToasterOnFire
March 7th, 2008, 07:37 PM
Eh, I've always been rather lukewarm toward these alternate universe/future stories. None of the events depicted happened to the "real" team members, hence I couldn't bring myself to care at the blatant tearjerker moments.

It was pretty obvious that Very Bad Things were going to happen to the team once poor Sheppers vanished. As soon as the team was depicted desperately looking for Teyla I knew she was dead, as soon as Sam was given a ship I knew it was going to blow up (it pulled a Pegasus, heh), as soon as Ronon went off on his own I knew he was going to be killed. Zero suspense and again, why should I care if these people die when I know that the real team won't?

Yes, it did seem abrupt and forced when Shep asked about Ronon while he was running around in the storm.

Plenty of Shep and McKay in this ep. Teyla's only appearance...was as a corpse. :S

Woolsey preview, huh? Awful, AWFUL costuming choice. Unless of course it's meant to parallel the absurdity of him being chosen for command...

Oh noes, cliffhanger! Will anyone (important) on the team actually die? No? Okay then.


Also:

Actually that's one of my theories. McKay survives and then tells Shepard via a hologram in the future that Scooty Puff Scooters suck.
Wins the thread. :D

Rac80
March 7th, 2008, 07:37 PM
Well, I say the last few minutes was all a dream sheppard had while in the stasis chamber!!!!! :P
I enjoyed the episode...Ronon's smile as he blew himself and todd up, Sam crashing into a hive ship then taking out three, Jeannie helping her brother, and General Lorne... yep he would do it! (Who can forget the look on his face when he returned to Atlantis and told them he had lost Teyla? yep he felt deep guilt there!). Great final scene!

s09119
March 7th, 2008, 07:38 PM
No point in him "caving" since you will now have a "leader" everyone will just ignore. Think Shep and McKay did what they wanted before, I bet you aint seen nothing yet

Woosley has the IOA on this side, though. He'll have the resources and powers of the world's most powerful nations to keep these guys in line.

sg-1fanintn
March 7th, 2008, 07:39 PM
Best thing the boys at Bridge have given us since Threads.

I loved this episode!

It had it all...conflict, suspense, angst, a little romance and adventure!

And I have never been happier to see a reset button punched at the end!

Ok...maybe Unending...but Unending was pathetic...especially compared to this!

Wow!

gateroom
March 7th, 2008, 07:40 PM
Great show, it seems like just last week that we watched the 1st episode of season 4.

One thing from the show if Sheppard spent 5 to 8 hundred years in stasis, wouldn't he of aged a little. As I remember it doesn't stop the body from aging all together.

the fifth man
March 7th, 2008, 07:42 PM
I was very pleased with the finale overall. A lot of very strong, and often sad, "flashbacks" from McKay. I can't wait now to get Season 5 underway.:)

Mitchell82
March 7th, 2008, 07:45 PM
Holy Cliffhanger Ending Batman! I'm still in shock after seeing our team completely screwed. This was by far the best season finale I've ever seen. Very interesting twist with the "future shock." The whole 48,000 years made the situation that much more dire. Ronon meeting his end with Todd now that's irony. Sam went down with her ship truly a testament to her character. The whole Rodney/Keller thing actually brought a tear to my eye. They really are good together. Michael was at his creepiest in this one. I hope the Woolsey we see here is not a preview of the one we will see in season 5. I don't think it will be as the situation will have changed. The only downside is we have to wait to see part 2.

Mitchell82
March 7th, 2008, 07:47 PM
Best thing the boys at Bridge have given us since Threads.

I loved this episode!

It had it all...conflict, suspense, angst, a little romance and adventure!

And I have never been happier to see a reset button punched at the end!

Ok...maybe Unending...but Unending was pathetic...especially compared to this!

Wow!

Are you kidding anything is pathetic compared to this!

Briangate78
March 7th, 2008, 07:49 PM
I want to say that this finale was likely the best finale of the series, but I still loved "The Seige" so lets call it a tie for now.

So a not so unoriginal idea used for this episode, so what, it worked wonders. It also had a point to the whole thing as well. Excellent writing right there. I was afraid there was going to be no point to Sheppard being thrown into the future. The character moments were great when Mckay is telling Sheppard about what happened after he got lost in spac.. er um time, lol.

Michael taking over the galaxy was something we expected. I gotta say got teary eye seeing Teyla dead on the floor and Mckay about to cry. Just very powerful moments. I think the saddest and most dramatic moment was Keller and Rodney and when she coughs up blood. To quote Joe M..

"The death of a loved one sends Mckay into action"

I know everyone has opinions of this episode, and I am going out on a limb here by saying the majority of the fans will find this episode very accepting and making them highly anticipate next season.

One downfall to the episode. Michael holding the head of the Wraith Queen. Can anyone say "Clash of the Titans"? :p

So yeah 10/10, A+, for a clever plot to an amazing cliffhanger.

KindlyKeller
March 7th, 2008, 07:50 PM
Eh, I've always been rather lukewarm toward these alternate universe/future stories. None of the events depicted happened to the "real" team members, hence I couldn't bring myself to care at the blatant tearjerker moments.

It was pretty obvious that Very Bad Things were going to happen to the team once poor Sheppers vanished. As soon as the team was depicted desperately looking for Teyla I knew she was dead, as soon as Sam was given a ship I knew it was going to blow up (it pulled a Pegasus, heh), as soon as Ronon went off on his own I knew he was going to be killed. Zero suspense and again, why should I care if these people die when I know that the real team won't?



So, you didn't like "Before I Sleep," the greatest Weir episode of all time?

KindlyKeller
March 7th, 2008, 07:51 PM
Are you kidding anything is pathetic compared to this!

I kinda have to agree.

Dr.Jonsson
March 7th, 2008, 07:56 PM
I wonder what they did with Carson:beckett:
Yea!, Sheppard went into the same pod as Carson was in. Did they throw his body away?

smushybird
March 7th, 2008, 07:57 PM
One quibble...Not even a hint of a heart to heart goodbye-just-in-case scene between McKay and Shephard? Give me a break...

ladyjanus

I was hoping for that, too, and was very disappointed to not get one.

And poor Rodney....could they hurt him any worse? Losing everyone he cared about? No wonder he seemed so fragile and subdued, personality-wise, in his hologram state.
What an eerie, sad episode. I imagine it will inspire quite a lot of fanfic.

Briangate78
March 7th, 2008, 07:58 PM
It was pretty obvious that Very Bad Things were going to happen to the team once poor Sheppers vanished. As soon as the team was depicted desperately looking for Teyla I knew she was dead, as soon as Sam was given a ship I knew it was going to blow up (it pulled a Pegasus, heh), as soon as Ronon went off on his own I knew he was going to be killed. Zero suspense and again, why should I care if these people die when I know that the real team won't?






That was the whole point to the episode. Sheppard needed to race back so he could prevent the events from happening. If they did not happen there would of been no suspense or build up. Sheppard could of taken a nap if there was no rush to get back.

Yashiv
March 7th, 2008, 07:59 PM
Yea!, Sheppard went into the same pod as Carson was in. Did they throw his body away?

Another funeral perhaps.

PhatChance
March 7th, 2008, 08:00 PM
Yea!, Sheppard went into the same pod as Carson was in. Did they throw his body away?

What makes you think it's the same statis? There must be thousands of statis in a self contain world like Atlantis.

majorsal
March 7th, 2008, 08:01 PM
someone answer this. how does sheppard going missing make all this horribleness happen? why 'him' not being there?

*is going to have a VERY hard time watching this ep because of sam*



sally :S

Dr.Jonsson
March 7th, 2008, 08:05 PM
This is the one part of the episode that I really disliked to be honest, really out of character in my opinion. Ronon would have shot him on site, and enjoyed it. I hate the way they seem to be treating Todd almost as a friend, as if they've all just turned simple and forgotten that he kills innocent humans on a regular basis...

True, but again, he has to eat, all living things have to eat, besides, they both wanted to blow up the base, oh this episode was good, but just too deppressing, it´s on again right now, and it could of had a lot more humor.

Myles
March 7th, 2008, 08:06 PM
someone answer this. how does sheppard going missing make all this horribleness happen? why 'him' not being there?

*is going to have a VERY hard time watching this ep because of sam*



sally :S

I don't know that him going missing is the cause. Even if he was there I don't think it would have changed things since they probably still wouldn't have found Teyla in time. But now that he knows where to look, he should be able to change that.

chensuu
March 7th, 2008, 08:06 PM
I really enjoyed this episode but for one major point.

The catalyst for Rodney's brain to kick into gear and start thinking about ways to change the course of history is Keller dying.

Not poor Sheppard stranded all alone 48,000 years in the future. Not Teyla's death at the hands of Micheal. Not Ronon or Carter's heroic deaths either. Just Keller, after a whirlwind Daedalus romance. As opposed to people he's worked with and cherished for years. Somehow that just doesn't set right with me. :(

KindlyKeller
March 7th, 2008, 08:08 PM
I really enjoyed this episode but for one major point.

The catalyst for Rodney's brain to kick into gear and start thinking about ways to change the course of history is Keller dying.

Not poor Sheppard stranded all alone 48,000 years in the future. Not Teyla's death at the hands of Micheal. Not Ronon or Carter's heroic deaths either. Just Keller, after a whirlwind Daedalus romance. As opposed to people he's worked with and cherished for years. Somehow that just doesn't set right with me. :(

Love will do that to a person. But like he said, he had a lot of regrets. He was able to start over once, because he had her, but once she was gone, everything piled on top of him.

Myles
March 7th, 2008, 08:09 PM
I really enjoyed this episode but for one major point.

The catalyst for Rodney's brain to kick into gear and start thinking about ways to change the course of history is Keller dying.

Not poor Sheppard stranded all alone 48,000 years in the future. Not Teyla's death at the hands of Micheal. Not Ronon or Carter's heroic deaths either. Just Keller, after a whirlwind Daedalus romance. As opposed to people he's worked with and cherished for years. Somehow that just doesn't set right with me. :(

While I'm sure Rodney cared a great deal for everyone else, love will make you do crazy things.

ToasterOnFire
March 7th, 2008, 08:12 PM
So, you didn't like "Before I Sleep," the greatest Weir episode of all time?
Guess that sort of storyline were easier to forgive back when I cared about the show and its characters. :S


That was the whole point to the episode. Sheppard needed to race back so he could prevent the events from happening. If they did not happen there would of been no suspense or build up. Sheppard could of taken a nap if there was no rush to get back.
I didn't get any feeling of suspense or rushing with the future!Shep clips because most of the time was spent with Rodney playing storyteller. If TPTB were going for more stress and urgency during those scenes then they should have written less exposition and more...actual urgency.


If Weir was in this episode people would probably like it who don't like it now.
Unlikely, see point one.

jelgate
March 7th, 2008, 08:13 PM
Jelgate's Two Cents
It is always the hope of the fans that a season finale goes above and beyond the call. We all know a season has its share of bad episodes and good episodes. But I am willing to guess that we (the fans) want a season finale that is of epic proportion and wanting us drooling for the coming season. I don't know about the rest of you, but they succeeded in my book.

I loved the initial reaction when Sheppard entered the city and found out. Credit goes Joe Flanigan on his acting ability when Sheppard saw the city covered in sand. I had the very same reaction, but I have benefit of seeing what being projected on the green screen. Even in old age, McKay can be a pain in the mikta. But you have to admit that putting Sheppard in a stasis pod is a risky venture.

Who doesn't love a Doomsday scenario? That’s basically what this episode was. It showed the worst possible outcome. And it was a gradual. At first we are lightly shown the killing of Teyla. I know it’s sad but it is shown so briefly that it doesn't effect us that much.

I liked how after that we are able to see it get really bad. Michael was able to succeed where the Ancients had failed. He was able to successfully exterminate the Wraith from the Pegasus Galaxy. And to think it’s our fault that Michael is around in the first place and our fault that all those Pegasus Galaxy natives are dead. Despite this, their is one thing that confuses me. With the Hoffman virus being spread throughout the galaxy, you would think that the Wraith would untie rather than continue their civil war. Isn't what they did when they were fighting the Asurans? The part that had me scared the most is when Michael killed the Wraith queen. It showed just how crazy he had become

After months and months and months of speculation, we are finally able to see the Phoenix. I have to say I wasn't that impressed. It just looked like another basic BC-304 to me. But the McKay/Carter interaction as the ship was being assembled showed to me how their friendship has changed as Carter been the leader for the past year. Did anyone else laugh when the hologram McKay said, "I think Zelenka was their."

Can't say I am surprised that the Phoenix would eventually demise for two reasons. It’s predictable for the ship blowing up if your presenting a Doomsday scenario and Michael isn't an idiot. He would have been smart enough to present an ambush. I can't help but appreciate the sacrifice that Carter made. What the old saying, " the captain goes down with his (or her in this case) ship. She inflicted as much damage as humanly possible.

Why am I suddenly reminded of the Jaffa Resistance when I look at the army that Ronon built? I know someone will call it a SG-1 rehash, but to me it shows that anyone is severely oppressed will fight back. For good reason too. I would be a little mad if someone was committing genocide. Their was a little nod to our Todd lovers. It’s nice to know he is still the same person. He could have easily killed Ronon, but unlike most Wraith Todd knows that the meaning of the enemy of my enemy is my friend. That force of habit joke with Todd mimicking Tealc made ROFLMAO. Once again the good guys (if you can call Todd good) made a self sacrifice to deal a crippling blow to the enemy.

I am shocked that Rodney would give up, but then again I could why. The IOA can be a bunch of *non PG word* sometimes. Of course Woolsey can never disobey those orders. I sure hope Woolsey doesn't stay that much of a jerk in Season 5.So I could understand that Keller and McKay would give up after having to watch everyone in the Pegasus die from Michael.

I can just sense how the shippers are going to respond to the McKay/Keller pairing. And I have to say I was a little concerned too. But it makes sense that they would end up together, after being alone on the ship grieving about the loss of their loved ones. Of course no relationship works on Stargate. Nice continuity to use the Hoffan drug to explain the death of Keller. I wonder if McKay regrets going against her wishes.

Now its time for me to talk about the present. I was glad that the whole story wasn't told in bulk and we got breaks in the action to see Sheppard's reaction. That said I was a little disappointed that we didn't get to see more happen in the future Atlantis. After the past story happen their only a few things that were of significant in the future to the story. I have heard horror stories of how the TPTB like to torture McKay. This must have been their chance to torture Sheppard. I have to imagine that it was tough for the actor to walk in that fake windstorm. The only other significant part of the episode in the future was that the sun was about to die and Sheppard had a limited amount of time. I would have liked to see Sheppard make it to the gate after he woke from the stasis pod, but it’s not that big of a deal.

Carter more than anyone should have realized the possibility that Sheppard traveled back in time. She didn't okay him until McKay confirmed the solar flare activity. I guess I understand the protocols, but I thought she would have known better. I also would have thought McKay would have known better than to check for traps when dealing with Michael. I guess some things never change. McKay is still a very arrogant person. The ending didn't have the same kind of suspense that the previous season had. I know the team is in danger, but it’s not on the same scale as previous season. In conclusion, The Last Man is a good season finale even if the ending is a little

KindlyKeller
March 7th, 2008, 08:14 PM
Unlikely, see point one.

Ummm... seeing point one confirms his point, doesn't it? You cared about the show and its characters when Weir was on there.

chensuu
March 7th, 2008, 08:15 PM
While I'm sure Rodney cared a great deal for everyone else, love will make you do crazy things.

I guess you have to buy the storyline that he was in love with Keller and I just don't get it. It seems to me that Rodney's entire team dying should have been catalyst enough for him to try something. In fact, Sheppard disappearing should have done the trick since Rodney was aware Sheppard was alive.

But then of course we'd have no episode. :sheppard:

Sorry!

FoolishPleasure
March 7th, 2008, 08:17 PM
I didn't feel any suspense. We all knew none of this is going to happen once super Shep returns to Atlantis. He always saves the day. Ho hum.

General Lorne was a nice touch, but I wish Keller had met her end with Todd.

Woolsey looked just plain dumb in that crummy uniform.

suse
March 7th, 2008, 08:20 PM
My review is going to come piecemeal as i remember my thoughts:

Rodney and Sam working on the Phoenix:
:lol: Re: Him not remembering (or dismissing) Zelenka being there.
Did anyone else get the feel (the music helped) that Sam and Rodney working together to get the ship in order felt like an homage to Galaxy Quest? Iot jsut seemed weak. And wishful thinking.

<sigh> So the Lead Male Action Hero does missing in action and the galaxy goes to hades in a handbasket. Projection, anyone? Whateva.

I can't believe there weas no comment about Rodney the Hologram and something putting a twist on "State the nature of the medical emergency."

Loved the irony of Ronon going out with Todd.

Was a bit annoyed that the stasis plot gevice was used 2 weeks in a row.

Shep walks through and sandstorm - sans covering his skin - and still has said skin after taking quite a while to get to the other side. Er, he was the equivalent of *sandpapered*.

Nice way for Sam to go. :) Much better than most of the AU other ways. I'm still not over SG-1 S9/S10 (aka Stargate Command S1/S2) being an AU though, so...<sigh>.

Woolsey as commander. Oy. I agree about the uniform. Not attractive at all. It needs help. :) I forsee fireworks. Good, as long as it's onscreen, not in fandom. ;)

Teyla. Yikes, I only give this a pass because Rachel was out on maternity leave. Hope she gets some development besides being the mom of the kid Michael wants next season. :S

Got a good snicker at the really bad SFX "cimenagraphic" outdoor shots of Ark of Truth. Boo.

7/10

suse

jackattack
March 7th, 2008, 08:21 PM
Wow...amazing ep.
When put into retrospect, this is really an achievement.
In fact it might be one of the best finales in the history of the Stargate franchise...and I don't say that lightly. What really makes this episode so amazing is that it takes an average time travel/dystopian future story ( which in and of itself was FANTASTIC), and lays down a great subtext with the themes of the Stargate franchise, specifically the power of an individual in his or her environment, the uncertainty of tomorrow, the meaning of grief and suffering, and mot importantly, the power of an idea. Granted we've seen the scientists and the SG teams come up with ideas in the bleakest of circumstances, but the scene in the SGC corridor where McKay has his " Eureka!" moment...just a great scene showing the power of an idea in the most dire of situations( despite the fact that it ultimately becomes his only reason for living).

Other great moments:
The initial reveal of the desert, like a good old classic movie

Sam's death- Very in character and strong

Ronon's death- Love the sense of irony here

EVERYTHING MICHAEL- Connor Trinneer is simply BRILLIANT when in this character. He's hands down THE BEST villain in SGA ( and possibly the entire Stargate franchise), for the fact that he's the perfect mixture of Lecter-like tenacity and self-loathing tragedy. Not to mention that he's essentially the Atlantis expedition's darkest mistake. The scene in his encampment where he kills the Wraith queen and his references to being a Wraith outcast...AWESOME. Great in terms of series continuity.

The mood- In terms of tone, despite initially sub par "tonal" qualities in Season 3, Season 4 was entirely different and really brought a sense of mood, whether good or bad to each episode. And The Last Man is the best closing note for this standard that I hope continues into Season 5. From the get go not only are things macabre, they're EXTREMELY macabre. It's not a Camelot finale with gigantic action spelling a cataclysmic doom, it just elaborates on this mood set in The Kindred part 1 ,which is that something in Pegasus is wrong, but nobody knows what it is. Not to mention it really uses the tragedy of the context of the episode to serve as a great homage to the spirit of these characters. Just brilliant.

Here's to Season 5.

cynatnite
March 7th, 2008, 08:22 PM
I really enjoyed this episode but for one major point.

The catalyst for Rodney's brain to kick into gear and start thinking about ways to change the course of history is Keller dying.

Not poor Sheppard stranded all alone 48,000 years in the future. Not Teyla's death at the hands of Micheal. Not Ronon or Carter's heroic deaths either. Just Keller, after a whirlwind Daedalus romance. As opposed to people he's worked with and cherished for years. Somehow that just doesn't set right with me. :(

I think Keller was the last straw for him. Too much bad had happened and he wanted to change it for the better.

KindlyKeller
March 7th, 2008, 08:23 PM
For those connecting the galaxy going to hell with Shep's disappearance, it's just a coincidence. The importance isn't being put on Shep's shoulders, I don't think. But he is the savior in that he now has the opportunity to use the future information to set things right.

Teslan
March 7th, 2008, 08:23 PM
True, but again, he has to eat, all living things have to eat, besides, they both wanted to blow up the base, oh this episode was good, but just too deppressing, it´s on again right now, and it could of had a lot more humor.

Thank you. That's exactly what makes the Wraith interesting bad guys. I'll be the first to admit the Wraith are evil, but if you look at it from their perspective, you can't say it is because they eat humans.

I like a little humor too, but I couldn't really see how it would have fit in this episode. It might have lessened the impact, as the whole point seems to be that everything goes wrong.

But then again I prefer SG-1 for my action-humor fix, so I probably didn't miss it as much.

Ruffles
March 7th, 2008, 08:24 PM
someone answer this. how does sheppard going missing make all this horribleness happen? why 'him' not being there?

*is going to have a VERY hard time watching this ep because of sam*

sally :S

The horribleness happens because Michael gets Teyla's baby and completes his research. It's not Sheppard going missing, but giving Sheppard the information on where to find Teyla so Michael will be stopped. Rodney has a small window in which to get Sheppard (2 months) to prevent everything from happening.

And Sam is completely awesome in this ep. Don't miss it.

KindlyKeller
March 7th, 2008, 08:24 PM
I guess you have to buy the storyline that he was in love with Keller and I just don't get it. It seems to me that Rodney's entire team dying should have been catalyst enough for him to try something. In fact, Sheppard disappearing should have done the trick since Rodney was aware Sheppard was alive.

But then of course we'd have no episode. :sheppard:

Sorry!

Your opinion is a perfectly reasonable one. I just disagree; love is the world's greatest spur.

suse
March 7th, 2008, 08:26 PM
someone answer this. how does sheppard going missing make all this horribleness happen? why 'him' not being there?

*is going to have a VERY hard time watching this ep because of sam*



sally :S

Simple. He's the wead male action hewo about whom all must revolve. :rolleyes: First in credits = crux (crutch more like) of the series.

suse

talula
March 7th, 2008, 08:26 PM
The scenes of the city all empty and sad were beautiful. Also liked the beginning when Sheppard was all jogging to the hologram room. The 'realtime' of it made it a little more scaryclaustrophobic.

Lovely episode. But come now, they're totally reading fanfic though y/maybe?

Jackie
March 7th, 2008, 08:28 PM
I found the ep rather boring, no real feeling of suspense...not even in the very end (which we all saw coming that's to the previews skiffy).

Anyways, McKay's hologram was one of the better things.

However, They didn't go into Micheal's hybrids enough. Don't know what they eat, why the virus that killed humans didn't effect them. What kind of civilization rose out of the defeat. Or what became of the baby.

Surprise, surprise...another new ship to blow up. Boy, those things must cost a dime a dozen.

The ep just didn't grab my attention, to be honest I will probably not even going to remember it when season 5 starts. Usually I remember the cliff hangers too.

Toaster on Fire was right on the money about the AU people all dying and it not really mattering because, first...we know that purpose of the ep's arc is to correct these tragic deaths and thus, this is only a temporary situation.

Also, the fact that tptb play this AU card so much now really takes away the suspense of the show. Kind of like...oh well, that wasn't real anyways.

To me, the show would have been far more interesting if Sheppard had a huge obstacle to overcome to return to the past and if we saw what became of Earth and our own civilizations in 45 thousand years--or maybe less years.

Sheppard got back to the past way too soon and had way too much help.

I think it would have been more interesting if the city was filled with descendants of the hybrids, Sheppard actually had to research to find out what happened to his friends and a hybrid would actually help him go back knowing it would ruin his own civilization.

The rising hybrids should have been the arc and the conflict in order to create the suspense. Instead of 45,000years into the future the writers could have sent him 5 hundred years into the future. Meet the hybrids that Micheal created. Discover some flaw about their civilization and an ally who is a citizen of this civilization. This ally would have a motive to change the past as well, perhaps this ally could be Teyla's great grandchild. Maybe the baby was made into a hybrid after teyla died.

This grandchild would help Sheppard go back and hope that his grandfather is never made into a hybrid and that his own future would be as a human and not some hybrid.

I think they totally missed the boat by not following up on Teyla's missing baby in the future.

wheresmyfroggy
March 7th, 2008, 08:28 PM
Everyone saying that "Oh Shep goes missing, it's the end of the galaxy!". No! Did you not listen to Holo-Mckay? He's sending Shep back to fix one thing. Teyla's baby falls into Michael's hands. That's what makes the galaxy go to hell in a handbasket. And that happened only two months after Shep's disappearance. So even if Shep hadn't been launched into the future, there's no guarantee they could have found Teyla in time. But now that Shep is back with 48,000 years worth of intel, they can.

...Maybe. I mean, the building did fall down on them.

ToasterOnFire
March 7th, 2008, 08:28 PM
Ummm... seeing point one confirms his point, doesn't it? You cared about the show and its characters when Weir was on there.
Nope, I started losing interest in the show and the characters back in s2. I stopped caring completely at some point in s4, and while that does coincide with the departure of Weir it was largely due to the continuation of poor writing coupled with bland new characters like Keller and Carter.

Take home message? Bringing back Weir for this one ep would not have magically made me like it. It still would have been largely predictable and lacking suspense.

Ruffles
March 7th, 2008, 08:29 PM
I think Keller was the last straw for him. Too much bad had happened and he wanted to change it for the better.

I agree. They had accepted what happened and started a life. With her gone, he had lost everything. But I think it's what's unsaid that's important. He mentions to Lorne the stuff wrong on Earth. That's all we get, but it's enough for Lorne to agree.

Of course, with Sheppard 48,000 years in the future, the only limit Rodney had was his own life span. Whether he started working on it as soon as he figured out what happened to Sheppard or waited a couple of years made no difference. He had 48,000 years to go.

KindlyKeller
March 7th, 2008, 08:30 PM
Simple. He's the wead male action hewo about whom all must revolve. :rolleyes: First in credits = crux (crutch more like) of the series.

suse

???

They didn't make it seem as if Shep's absence impacted events at all. Shep's absence was only significant in preventing it all from happening. I doubt their search for Teyla was any slower just because Lorne was w/ Rodney and Ronon instead of John.

smushybird
March 7th, 2008, 08:31 PM
Ummm... seeing point one confirms his point, doesn't it? You cared about the show and its characters when Weir was on there.


It so confirms, yeah--[mod snip] despite claiming they no longer care about the show, still come in here week after week to indulge in petty bashing of the newest episode, even if virtually everyone else agrees that the ep was fresh, smart, and entertaining, as most season 4 episodes have been. [mod snip] I hope so anyway, because I'd hate to think that any of the writers would take those comments as legitimate criticism of a particular ep. Atlantis has had its best season ever. If the writers and producers are feeling a sense of pride and accomplishment over it, it's well-deserved, imo.

KindlyKeller
March 7th, 2008, 08:31 PM
Nope, I started losing interest in the show and the characters back in s2. I stopped caring completely at some point in s4, and while that does coincide with the departure of Weir it was largely due to the continuation of poor writing coupled with bland new characters like Keller and Carter.

Take home message? Bringing back Weir for this one ep would not have magically made me like it. It still would have been largely predictable and lacking suspense.

Well, my hypothetical was if she'd never left the show at all.

Fair enough. You are entitled to think of all that. I offer no disrespect in that regard, because neither of is are "right" about the quality of the episode.

I do wonder, though -- if you are really so disengaged from the show, how come you're still watching it and posting on here? It seems like you really, really dislike it these days.

FoolishPleasure
March 7th, 2008, 08:37 PM
Since Michael killed Teyla right away, what did he do with the baby? I can't see him stocking baby formula and Pampers on his ship. Or did he kill it once he got the DNA sequence?

Gee, I can't wait to see how many episodes next year will revolve around someone trying to steal/kidnap this baby because its "special". :rolleyes:

So why was Atlantis abandoned? McKay never said what happened after he left, but obviously Lorne survived. I want to know if we cut our losses and ran, or if Michael took over.

chensuu
March 7th, 2008, 08:39 PM
Your opinion is a perfectly reasonable one. I just disagree; love is the world's greatest spur.

I agree that "love is the world's greatest spur" or maybe I don't and I'm just really too tired to think much about the deeper meaning! :)

I just don't believe that Rodney loved Keller so much that he'd change history for her when the death of his teammates did nothing to get his mind working.

It sounds trite I guess but if this were just another episode, Rodney would have been thinking of a way to save Sheppard the minute he realized his friend was alive and would have done so without the need for a forced dramatic romance. Maybe it would have taken him the twenty-five years to solve it but I believe Mckay would have succeeded :mckay:

Stormtrooper
March 7th, 2008, 08:40 PM
This episode is Before I Sleep backwards. So much for creativity. Atlantis doesn't even have big baddies anymore.

Pointless episode, pointless show.

suse
March 7th, 2008, 08:40 PM
Since Michael killed Teyla right away, what did he do with the baby? I can't see him stocking baby formula and Pampers on his ship. Or did he kill it once he got the DNA sequence?

Gee, I can't wait to see how many episodes next year will revolve around someone trying to steal/kidnap this baby because its "special". :rolleyes:

So why was Atlantis abandoned? McKay never said what happened after he left, but obviously Lorne survived. I want to know if we cut our losses and ran, or if Michael took over.



Speaking of Michael, I find the whole 'wraith with a haircut so we can tell he's *different* sort of bad guy' hilarious. That and he managed to keep Carson pretty well groomed too. I can see shaving, but hairstyles? :lol:

suse

KindlyKeller
March 7th, 2008, 08:40 PM
Something I think is actually pretty interesting about this episode's take on the "doomsday" plot is that it's in a sense an isolated apocalypse.

The "end times" are confined to the Pegasus for the most part (despite the cryptic implication that "something" bad happened in the MW). McKay and Keller had a CHOICE to leave the doomsday behind. That was so interesting to me.

KindlyKeller
March 7th, 2008, 08:42 PM
This episode is Before I Sleep backwards. So much for creativity. Atlantis doesn't even have big baddies anymore.

Pointless episode, pointless show.

Why do you torture yourself watching it then, my friend? I promise I'm not trying to be a smartass. I just really wonder.

Some people come on here and complain about or rip apart a few episodes a year. That's natural as a fan. But for people who think the show has been total crap consistently, what is the appeal of continuing to watch and post on here?

I genuinely am just curious.

Malakriss
March 7th, 2008, 08:45 PM
Since Michael killed Teyla right away, what did he do with the baby? I can't see him stocking baby formula and Pampers on his ship. Or did he kill it once he got the DNA sequence?

Gee, I can't wait to see how many episodes next year will revolve around someone trying to steal/kidnap this baby because its "special". :rolleyes:

So why was Atlantis abandoned? McKay never said what happened after he left, but obviously Lorne survived. I want to know if we cut our losses and ran, or if Michael took over.

I imagine once the IOA took over and cut all ties to the rest of Pegasus, it was only a matter of time before Michael and his hybrids ruled everything. At that point venturing offworld for exploration or research or anything wouldn't be worth it. When McKay made the future preparations they already had a Mark 12 generator developed, so all that would be left is to pillage Atlantis as much as possible, then gate back to the Milky Way and abandon it.

jelgate
March 7th, 2008, 08:46 PM
:

So why was Atlantis abandoned? McKay never said what happened after he left, but obviously Lorne survived. I want to know if we cut our losses and ran, or if Michael took over.

They never said that Atlantis was abandon. Which means its safe to say that Atlantis was still occupied when McKay installed his program. A lot of things can happen in 40,000 years. The Tauri most likely died out.

marielabbott
March 7th, 2008, 08:52 PM
This episode was rather…meh for me. It was interesting to see possible futures for the characters, but I never felt any real suspense, not even when the building collapsed.

My favorite alternate future for a character—Ronon. I liked the banter and fighting between him and Todd. And he goes out working with a Wraith (but he does get to blow him up :D). I really liked General Lorne as well.

McKay and Keller. I realize they have a few things in common, but I still do not see any romantic sparks there, and I don’t like that they keep shipping the Keller character with random people. Write her better instead and let her stand on her own. I was cringing at the kiss and the Keller in the infirmary scene. I also don’t think Rodney would give up and leave Atlantis without more of a fight.

Please change Woolsey’s uniform for next year. I did, however, actually kind of like Woolsey himself, which surprised me…if we get some IOA commands like this next year, we could potentially have some interesting conflict. No one will ever be as good a leader as Weir, in my opinion, but he looks like he might be more interesting than Carter at least.

So ends season four, not with a bang, but with a meh.

ToasterOnFire
March 7th, 2008, 08:52 PM
I do wonder, though -- if you are really so disengaged from the show, how come you're still watching it and posting on here? It seems like you really, really dislike it these days.
I told myself I was going to watch all of s4 and I did. Part of me was hoping that things would get better. Turns out I was wrong. And I posted what I thought went wrong with the season, just like other people post what they thought was great about the season. After Last Man I'm not going to watch the show and that's just fine with me.

Can we get back to the actual thread topic now?

KindlyKeller
March 7th, 2008, 08:54 PM
I told myself I was going to watch all of s4 and I did. Part of me was hoping that things would get better. Turns out I was wrong. And I posted what I thought went wrong with the season, just like other people post what they thought was great about the season. After Last Man I'm not going to watch the show and that's just fine with me.

Can we get back to the actual thread topic now?

Sure. [mod snip]

wm_1987
March 7th, 2008, 08:55 PM
someone answer this. how does sheppard going missing make all this horribleness happen? why 'him' not being there?

*is going to have a VERY hard time watching this ep because of sam*



sally :S

I'm not sure it's all because he went missing, but I do think it's a part of it. The main reason was because they didn't get to Teyla in time.

I do think Sheppard was a cause in the way things went after Teyla died. Because of John and Teyla being gone Ronon left. Even though everyone was still fighting in their way, they are best as a team. Maybe John is the glue of the team, Teyla joined because him, Ronon as well, and look at the AI Rodney. John gave him an idea for the sheild with the solar power. Together the galaxy survives, apart it goes to hell.

I don't think everything happend because he went missing, but I think it played a pretty good part to it.

FoolishPleasure
March 7th, 2008, 08:56 PM
. . . .I don’t like that they keep shipping the Keller character with random people.

Because Keller is a self-centered, whiny kinda girl, and she is only interesting when she is flirting with men. So sayeth the writers (because they don't know what else to do with her).

wheresmyfroggy
March 7th, 2008, 08:56 PM
I've decided to tell myself that Mckay and Keller were thrown together by circumstance, being the 'only two' left of the originals and having to deal with all that loss. They really only had each other. Therefore, when the timeline is altered and they don't remember all that stuff, they will not be together.

That makes me feel better. And the nausea goes away. Slightly. Until I picture that kiss again. Oh god...

KindlyKeller
March 7th, 2008, 08:58 PM
I really don't think you can say Keller's "making the rounds" just because of one almost-kiss with Ronon. But I've had this argument with everyone 40 times, so I'll leave it at that.

Neomon
March 7th, 2008, 08:59 PM
I enjoyed this episode. Not only for the "Atlantis: Disassembled" elements, but the use of ideas that have occured in the past. We didn't need some new variation on time travel device to get Shep back. I did, however, feel the "cliffhanger" was out of place. Episode should have ended with Sheppard going through the gate, or getting back and telling Carter/Rodney that they were "on the clock".

Pharaoh Atem
March 7th, 2008, 09:01 PM
Are you the forum owner? If not, take care of your own business.

SGA is a dying show. Don't kid yourself.

the show is alive and well to some of us. and this ep proved it great story all the way through

Infernorhythm
March 7th, 2008, 09:03 PM
Wow. That was brilliant.

The possible future was so bleak, yet so amazing. I love those "end of the line" stories where we get to see everyone meet their maker. This episode delivered big time. Carter went down fighting to the very end, and Ronon and Todd worked together and went out smiling, that was amazing. Major kudos to Mamoa and Heyerdahl for giving a great scene.
Ronon: "I was just gonna blow it up."
Todd: "Naturally."
Best. Line. Ever.

And McKay and Keller, no matter how much I hate them as a couple (Keller-Ronon please) made perfect sense given the circumstances.

Future Hologram Rodney was great. I loved the final exchange with Sheppard. This episode was a near tearjerker.

And that cliffhanger, sweet.

This is still the best show on TV, bar none. Is Season 5 ready yet?

Ruffles
March 7th, 2008, 09:06 PM
Are you the forum owner? If not, take care of your own business.

SGA is a dying show. Don't kid yourself.

That's a little hostile. It was a genuine question, and this is a discussion thread.

Many here do not hold your opinion of the show. I find it entertaining and thought provoking week after week. Much better than most of what you'll find on TV these days.

Pharaoh Atem
March 7th, 2008, 09:09 PM
Wow. That was brilliant.

The possible future was so bleak, yet so amazing. I love those "end of the line" stories where we get to see everyone meet their maker. This episode delivered big time. Carter went down fighting to the very end, and Ronon and Todd worked together and went out smiling, that was amazing. Major kudos to Mamoa and Heyerdahl for giving a great scene. And McKay and Keller, no matter how much I hate them as a couple (Keller-Ronon please) made perfect sense given the circumstances.

Future Hologram Rodney was great. I loved the final exchange with Sheppard. This episode was a near tearjerker.

And that cliffhanger, sweet.

This is still the best show on TV, bar none. Is Season 5 ready yet?

virtual green for you :D

this was a great ep seeing the 1 version of the was amazing ...Pegasus really went down hill and it's all our fault if we hadn't created Micheal it never would have happen. :S

cynatnite
March 7th, 2008, 09:09 PM
Are you the forum owner? If not, take care of your own business.

SGA is a dying show. Don't kid yourself.

Hmm...refusal to answer a genuine question. Interesting.

BTW, dying is in the eye of the beholder. I would venture a guess that you hope it's a dying show and may be a little upset that it's not since there is a fifth season coming. :)

KindlyKeller
March 7th, 2008, 09:12 PM
Hmm...refusal to answer a genuine question. Interesting.

BTW, dying is in the eye of the beholder. I would venture a guess that you hope it's a dying show and may be a little upset that it's not since there is a fifth season coming. :)

To visit the logic of his response for a moment: would my being the forum owner really make me more entitled to an answer anyway? ;)

GATEGOD
March 7th, 2008, 09:14 PM
I loved 80% of this episode hated 5% and the other 15% I was kicking because I knew it would all never happen! So I liked it?

Shan Bruce Lee
March 7th, 2008, 09:15 PM
To visit the logic of his response for a moment: would my being the forum owner really make me more entitled to an answer anyway? ;)

Of course it would. Sounds like somebody needs to study up on their internet logics to me.

ToasterOnFire
March 7th, 2008, 09:16 PM
I'm not sure it's all because he went missing, but I do think it's a part of it. The main reason was because they didn't get to Teyla in time.

I do think Sheppard was a cause in the way things went after Teyla died. Because of John and Teyla being gone Ronon left. Even though everyone was still fighting in their way, they are best as a team. Maybe John is the glue of the team, Teyla joined because him, Ronon as well, and look at the AI Rodney. John gave him an idea for the sheild with the solar power. Together the galaxy survives, apart it goes to hell.

I don't think everything happend because he went missing, but I think it played a pretty good part to it.
That's how I saw it. I don't think the presence of real Shep would have saved Teyla, but having him there may have prevented Ronon from going out on his own since Shep and Ronon have a bond/mutual respect. Likewise, his presence certainly would have helped Rodney do all his science stuff. The end results with Michael and the hybrids winning and whatnot may have ended up the same, but I get the feeling that at least what remained of the team would have stayed together longer.


I'm also not really sure why TPTB had Shep go so far into the future, unless it was just to show off a beached, abandoned Atlantis. The major events of the team and Michael would have been done and over with in 100 years and all of the PG humans could have been wiped out in less than 1000. Why go forward 30-40K years?

Shan Bruce Lee
March 7th, 2008, 09:21 PM
That's how I saw it. I don't think the presence of real Shep would have saved Teyla, but having him there may have prevented Ronon from going out on his own since Shep and Ronon have a bond/mutual respect. Likewise, his presence certainly would have helped Rodney do all his science stuff. The end results with Michael and the hybrids winning and whatnot may have ended up the same, but I get the feeling that at least what remained of the team would have stayed together longer.


I'm also not really sure why TPTB had Shep go so far into the future, unless it was just to show off a beached, abandoned Atlantis. The major events of the team and Michael would have been done and over with in 100 years and all of the PG humans could have been wiped out in less than 1000. Why go forward 30-40K years?

Probably just to add the extra danger of a red giant so it's not just "Shep goes to the future, waits for a solar flare and then comes back!" That's my guess anyway.

dasNdanger
March 7th, 2008, 09:23 PM
I was blown away by this episode. Totally blown away.

Two things really hit me hard - first, Sam's departure. What a way to go, lady! Well done.

But the one that got to me the most was Ronon and Todd, of course. I mean - you really have to think about this for a minute. Ronon wasn't gonna leave the PG until every last Wraith was dead - he hated 'em that much. In the end, his last ally is a Wraith, and side by side they fight, and they die. Not the way he imagined himself going out, I suppose. It was a truly beautiful moment...

The little smile he gives Todd just before he sets off the explosion is so touching - makes me tear up just thinking about it. Not only must he have seen the irony of the situation - dying alongside a Wraith ally instead of a fellow Lantean or Satedan - but I'd like to think in that moment, and for the first time in all his life, he felt admiration for a Wraith. They were equals afterall.

Damn, it just kills me thinking about it.

And did anyone catch Todd's "Indeed'? Nice touch. ;)

das

Pharaoh Atem
March 7th, 2008, 09:25 PM
I was blown away by this episode. Totally blown away.

Two things really hit me hard - first, Sam's departure. What a way to go, lady! Well done.

But the one that got to me the most was Ronon and Todd, of course. I mean - you really have to think about this for a minute. Ronon wasn't gonna leave the PG until every last Wraith was dead - he hated 'em that much. In the end, his last ally is a Wraith, and side by side they fight, and they die. Not the way he imagined himself going out, I suppose. It was a truly beautiful moment...

The little smile he gives Todd just before he sets off the explosion is so touching - makes me tear up just thinking about it. Not only must he have seen the irony of the situation - dying alongside a Wraith ally instead of a fellow Lantean or Satedan - but I'd like to think in that moment, and for the first time in all his life, he felt admiration for a Wraith. They were equals afterall.

Damn, it just kills me thinking about it.

And did anyone catch Todd's "Indeed'? Nice touch. ;)

das

:indeed: it was a great sent off for carter ramming a ship she helped build and taking out 3 hives ships

caty
March 7th, 2008, 09:32 PM
[mod snip]

Because it's anonymous ;)

I LOVED the episode. Writing wise probably the best ep in a while which really surprises me because JM usually doesn't dig it for me...

The lack of spoilers made it even more enjoyable and unpredictable.

We had some of the best character moments ever in here and the actors did a wonderful job!!!

parisindy
March 7th, 2008, 09:36 PM
even though i really liked seasons 1-3

stargate atlantis has yet to do a decent season finale

Pharaoh Atem
March 7th, 2008, 09:38 PM
even though i really liked seasons 1-3

stargate atlantis has yet to do a decent season finale

that i agree with ... i liked the whole thing until the building went boom ...didn't make sense

dasNdanger
March 7th, 2008, 09:39 PM
Wow. That was brilliant.

The possible future was so bleak, yet so amazing. I love those "end of the line" stories where we get to see everyone meet their maker. This episode delivered big time. Carter went down fighting to the very end, and Ronon and Todd worked together and went out smiling, that was amazing. Major kudos to Mamoa and Heyerdahl for giving a great scene.
Ronon: "I was just gonna blow it up."
Todd: "Naturally."
Best. Line. Ever.


I still can't get over how fantastic the Ronon & Todd scene was...it's EVERYTHING I've ever wanted to see between these two, and then some. I just hope they carry this idea over into S5 - I am totally spoiled now, and really want to see T&R team up for some more hand-to-hand baddie buttkicking.

The way they went out - together - was just beautiful. Ronon's little smile kills me...I said elsewhere why and won't repeat myself here...but damn, it was excellent. I think it'll be the scene that sticks with me the most because it was such a leap for Ronon - to go from hating Wraith, to going out in a blaze of glory alongside one. And you know he had to admire Todd - he KNEW Todd sacrificed his own life so Ronon's men could escape - he had Todd all wrong, and he realized it in the end.

Of course, it's now up to the writers to continue with this concept. If they end up making Todd the next evil villain, it'll just ruin this whole moment because I believe - regardless of the events leading up to it - this scene defined the sort of Wraith Todd really is.

Loved it. More satisfying to me than I could ever imagine.

das

Famous
March 7th, 2008, 09:41 PM
I enjoyed this episode. Not only for the "Atlantis: Disassembled" elements, but the use of ideas that have occured in the past. We didn't need some new variation on time travel device to get Shep back. I did, however, feel the "cliffhanger" was out of place. Episode should have ended with Sheppard going through the gate, or getting back and telling Carter/Rodney that they were "on the clock".


Agreed. I loved this episode, but the only thing I would've changed would've been the ending. It felt a little rushed, like something that belonged more in the opener than in the finale. Having him step through the gate and see Carter/McKay would've been better, I think.

That said, the episode was really awesome. I like alot of the AU/what if things went horribly wrong eps(though not always), and I think this was probably up there with "There But For the Grace of God" in terms of quality. I think it was probably my favorite Atlantis finale, and one of my favorite SG finales regardless. The Todd/Ronon moments were hilarious, as was Rodney with the splinter, Rodney asking about if he had hair or not, and Sheppard asking about sports occurences(like O'neill in Moebius or w/e episode it was at the end of S8). Personally, I've always loved the Michael storylines, I think he's a great villain and character. I loved how he came to be in power, I think that may have been my favorite part of the episode, except that he looked like a pilgrim when he was holding the queen's head up :P

Great, great stuff, cant' wait for the summer premiere to get here.

Seperated@Birth?
March 7th, 2008, 09:58 PM
I still can't get over how fantastic the Ronon & Todd scene was...it's EVERYTHING I've ever wanted to see between these two, and then some. I just hope they carry this idea over into S5 - I am totally spoiled now, and really want to see T&R team up for some more hand-to-hand baddie buttkicking.

The way they went out - together - was just beautiful. Ronon's little smile kills me...I said elsewhere why and won't repeat myself here...but damn, it was excellent. I think it'll be the scene that sticks with me the most because it was such a leap for Ronon - to go from hating Wraith, to going out in a blaze of glory alongside one. And you know he had to admire Todd - he KNEW Todd sacrificed his own life so Ronon's men could escape - he had Todd all wrong, and he realized it in the end.

Of course, it's now up to the writers to continue with this concept. If they end up making Todd the next evil villain, it'll just ruin this whole moment because I believe - regardless of the events leading up to it - this scene defined the sort of Wraith Todd really is.

Loved it. More satisfying to me than I could ever imagine.

das

Couldn't have said it better my friend! :cameron:

TameFarrar
March 7th, 2008, 10:11 PM
This thread is for discussion of the EPISODE :) if you are having personal issues with another member please take it to PM and stay respectful even there :)

however, please allow the folks that would like to discuss the actual TOPIC to do so.

Thank You
TameFarrar
GateWorld Moderator

xenomorph1211
March 7th, 2008, 10:24 PM
WOW, for all you nay-sayers that it would take the Asgard weapons a while to destroy a hive!! 3 HITS!!! So much for heavly armored!! My favorite part was when the Phoneix got ambushed and Carter crashed her into that hive....it was one of the greatest explosions EVER!!!!! I jumped out of my seat and started to scream and laugh like a madman!! THAT shockwave taking out the hives was a terk jerker!!!! It was so awesome!!!
TOP 4 episodes (not in any order)
Camelot
Unending
Be All My Sins Remember'd
The Last Man
I can't wait till season 5 so we can see more asgard beam pawnage!!!!!
HALLOWED ARE THE ASGARD!!!

Willow'sCat
March 7th, 2008, 10:25 PM
Favorite thing about the ep... General Lorne!!!Ditto! ;)

The rest was *meh* really the only great stuff was Lorne in the future, McKay being so smart and determined that he not only saves Sheppard, he saves everyone! I mean all Sheppard did was battle through a sand storm and wait around for 7-800 years. :rolleyes:

McKay was the hero here, he spent the rest of his life trying to reverse what he saw as wrong, trying to bring back those he lost and those he loves. David Hewlett was AWESOME! :D But um... sorry the makeup for older McKay made him look more like 80 then 65! What was up with that? Did I get the math wrong? He is around 40 + 25-26 years is 65-66! :S *shrugs* Also it was a cheap shot about McKay's hair, just because John can't do a thing with his is no reason to tease Rodney. :P Also it came off more as mean then playful banter, which is really not good, I think most of the banter between them this season has been harsh, not the playful stuff of season's 1-3. I think Joe/Paul need to stop writing them, they really have no idea. :cool:


I was really disappointed that John couldn't have hugged Rodney... don't get me wrong when he came through the gate and called McKay a genius that was great but a HUG would have fitted in nicely *out of pure euphoria of being alive and the plan working he could have hugged him* but no we can't do that as peeps would get the wrong idea. Yeah that John might actually give a crap about McKay saving him. :rolleyes:

Anyway, this was a poor finale but not a bad episode... but no one here is buying the ending, right? I mean no one is thinking anyone will be dead when season 5 starts? Right? :cool:

As I said in the pre-airing thread for this eppy, it would reset. All we got was an idea of where Teyla was going to be and now that has been blown to smithereens! So yeah, what did we learn? What tech do we have now that we didn't have at the start? And how closer are we to finding Teyla?

Nothing.
None.
Anyone's guess but she ain't where they thought she would be.

RESET.

majorsal
March 7th, 2008, 10:37 PM
I'm not sure it's all because he went missing, but I do think it's a part of it. The main reason was because they didn't get to Teyla in time.

I do think Sheppard was a cause in the way things went after Teyla died. Because of John and Teyla being gone Ronon left. Even though everyone was still fighting in their way, they are best as a team. Maybe John is the glue of the team, Teyla joined because him, Ronon as well, and look at the AI Rodney. John gave him an idea for the sheild with the solar power. Together the galaxy survives, apart it goes to hell.

I don't think everything happend because he went missing, but I think it played a pretty good part to it.

before i saw the ep, i thought maybe it was because of his ancient gene was needed to power up some kind of weapon or something.



so, i saw the ep...

i'm not a fan of depressing/doomsday kinds of storylines. or maybe, if my fave character survives, i can get 'something' from these kinds of stories. but this one...

it was well done. an affecting kind of story. but like i said, i don't *enjoy* these types of deals. like 'unending', it was just an hour of watching a bunch of ppl suffer and ultimately die.

i don't like it when ppl realize they're trapped, so they (almost calmly) decide to die and take out some bad guys along the way. i know it's a common fantasy to have that type of bravery, but i like the figuring a way out more. much more.

ronon and todd dying the way they did was the way warriors want to go out, but still, i'd have like to have seen the two TRY HARDER to get themselves out of that place alive.

keller and mckay together was very sweet. i think they have an actual basis for a real relationship. she won't take his crap, and he softens around her. at least what we've seen so far. (including 'trio')

i've read some others say about mckay finally deciding to do something only after keller died. at first, before i saw the ep, that bothered me. they didnt' know each other long enough for that type of punch to mckay. but i think keller was the last straw. he'd lost friend after friend, and this one was just the last loss he could take.

and sam, this one i've left for last. anyone that's seen me here knows i'm a HUGE sam fan. i do NOT like characters dying, especially when they're my fave. with sheppard making it back, he was effectively changing the horrible scenario from taking place. but we still *saw* it happen, and it's just another scenario i'll never watch again. this ep will go with '2010' and 'abyss' and 'unending' in the depressing as hell category. i know she was a hero, but i don't like this kind of stuff, period. (and sam shouldn't have been the one going out on these runs. she was needed on atlantis)

so, like 'unending'; well done ep, just not fun and something i won't be revisiting. argh. :(





sally :sam:

Mitchell82
March 7th, 2008, 10:40 PM
Yea!, Sheppard went into the same pod as Carson was in. Did they throw his body away?

It probably smelled bad after 48000 years in stasis.;) The only thing I can think of as to why Atlantis was abandoned is due to what happend the morale was low very low. The Woolsey we saw in this one looked and sounded like old Woolsey before he grew to respect us. SO my guess is since our mandate changed to protect Atlantis and no one else more than a few left until the IOA pulled the plug. BTW notice how they made his uniform look way too trekie?

Mitchell82
March 7th, 2008, 10:43 PM
This episode is Before I Sleep backwards. So much for creativity. Atlantis doesn't even have big baddies anymore.

Pointless episode, pointless show.

How exactly like before I sleep? Oh yeah a stasis pod is involved that's it. Not a rehash.

jdbond
March 7th, 2008, 11:04 PM
How sad it is that many have missed have the whole point of this episode. Building a big or small suspense was never intended in this episode. As few have said before, it only showed the unfolding of events in the absence of Shepard. Now if you dislike even that, okay!

jdbond
March 7th, 2008, 11:06 PM
It probably smelled bad after 48000 years in stasis.;) The only thing I can think of as to why Atlantis was abandoned is due to what happend the morale was low very low. The Woolsey we saw in this one looked and sounded like old Woolsey before he grew to respect us. SO my guess is since our mandate changed to protect Atlantis and no one else more than a few left until the IOA pulled the plug. BTW notice how they made his uniform look way too trekie?

48000 years is a LONG LONG time. As holo-Rodney said, may be humans on earth died out too and he was last living human in universe.

jdbond
March 7th, 2008, 11:12 PM
i don't like it when ppl realize they're trapped, so they (almost calmly) decide to die and take out some bad guys along the way. i know it's a common fantasy to have that type of bravery, but i like the figuring a way out more. much more.

ronon and todd dying the way they did was the way warriors want to go out, but still, i'd have like to have seen the two TRY HARDER to get themselves out of that place alive.



Ahem...as if you have been in any such situation! You never know how people will react in danger. There are no born brave people, there are just some people who act bravely when situation demands it. You never know, if such a situation arises, you might not think of "escaping".

Mitchell82
March 7th, 2008, 11:13 PM
48000 years is a LONG LONG time. As holo-Rodney said, may be humans on earth died out too and he was last living human in universe.

It's possible though I'd thing humans could survive and evolve and not die out but considering the Wraith and us pulling out it is possible.

Quinn Mallory
March 7th, 2008, 11:19 PM
Although the time travel aspect and the potential alternate futre aspect of this episode are nothing new (even just within the Stargate universe), I thought this was still a very good episode. I think TPTB knew that no one will really feel that Sheppard is in much of danger (as in stuck/die in the future), so that part of the episode felt a bit underwhelming. Now Sheppard, like Teal'c, get to be one that knows how a possible future will play out. I would have liked to see a little bit more of Zelenka, rather than that very brief cameo, but this episode really does set up the Michael threat to be that much grander. I hope Michael is not just dealt with completely in the opening arc of season 5.

Mitchell82
March 7th, 2008, 11:22 PM
Ahem...as if you have been in any such situation! You never know how people will react in danger. There are no born brave people, there are just some people who act bravely when situation demands it. You never know, if such a situation arises, you might not think "escaping".

Exactly. You really never know how you will react in any given circumstance until you are in that position.

dasNdanger
March 7th, 2008, 11:27 PM
ronon and todd dying the way they did was the way warriors want to go out, but still, i'd have like to have seen the two TRY HARDER to get themselves out of that place alive.

I don't like shows where my fav characters die either...but this one really worked for me (as I sit here with tears in my eyes just thinking about it). It was sad, but many of the deaths were heroic, and that made it much better for me. Sam, Ronon and Todd's exits were amazing...especially R&T. I just made this comment over in the Wraith Defender's thread, but will repeat here...I think the reason Ronon's smile has done me in is because it gave me the sense that finally Ronon saw in Todd what we - the fans - have seen all along. When a Wraith gets Ronon's stamp of approval...well...it's truly a beautiful thing. So, even though it hurts to see that part, it also gives me a true feeling of satisfaction that these two went out exactly as they should have, with one former enemy finally validating the other.

As far as them not putting up enough of a fight - well, I accept that time wouldn't allow for it. Instead, we get the sense that these two did all they could, including hand to hand fighting...until the exits were all blocked off and they had no where else to go - it was their last stand, and they made it together. Remember, in SoW, Todd saved his own ass while the others were taken down - he chose not to do that this time, but instead he stood with Ronon until the very end. I don't look at the scene in a TECHNICAL way, instead I see it in a POETIC sense. It's not about whether or not they could have escaped, or put up a better fight - it's about two enemies putting aside their differences, and giving their lives, for a common cause.

It was the best scene, IMHO, of the entire season...not just because of 'Todd', but because of what Todd brings out in Ronon. Not sure how Ronon's life will go after things are set right, but in this timeline his journey is complete - from Wraith hater, to a brother-in-arms with one. Just fills me up everytime I think about it...

Gonna stop now...really need to get some sleep...


das

david2708
March 7th, 2008, 11:28 PM
Hmm....very average kind of episode. Could have really appeared anywhere in the season and easily forgotten. One of the poorest final ep episodes of the show.
Very dodgy/fake looking SFX in the final 'cliffanger'.
A cliffhanger that also reeked of we don't know what we're doing next year. Just trap em in a blown up building. Very unimaginative.

jdbond
March 7th, 2008, 11:36 PM
Hmm....very average kind of episode. Could have really appeared anywhere in the season and easily forgotten. One of the poorest final ep episodes of the show.
Very dodgy/fake looking SFX in the final 'cliffanger'.
A cliffhanger that also reeked of we don't know what we're doing next year. Just trap em in a blown up building. Very unimaginative.

I don't think a collapsing building was the final "cliffhanger" but a painful realization that Teyla wasn't there! So Teyla is still missing and building is gone. Things could still go to hell if you know what I mean.

chensuu
March 7th, 2008, 11:53 PM
I agree. They had accepted what happened and started a life. With her gone, he had lost everything. But I think it's what's unsaid that's important. He mentions to Lorne the stuff wrong on Earth. That's all we get, but it's enough for Lorne to agree.

Of course, with Sheppard 48,000 years in the future, the only limit Rodney had was his own life span. Whether he started working on it as soon as he figured out what happened to Sheppard or waited a couple of years made no difference. He had 48,000 years to go.

I don't see this. I'm sorry, I guess I'm just the only one here taking crazy pills or something because I can't imagine a universe with a Rodney who accepts things without trying.

And why would Rodney wait a couple of years and then decide to do something if Keller lived? The way the storyline presented it, if Keller never died then Rodney wouldn't have done anything. She's the catalyst, obviously the "death of a loved one" in Mallozzi's poem. Rodney would have lived out his life with Keller and not tried to change anything at all that happened in the past with his friends and teammates dying because to do so would have ended his romance.

So, whether Rodney decided to change the future of Earth and Pegasus revolved around Keller living or dying. It would have made more sense to me if he started working on something, anything, when he realized Sheppard was alive and then continued it as events unfolded. To give this type of importance to new character Keller after a quickie forced relationship IMO is ridiculous especially when we've spent four years understanding the value and love Rodney places on his team. :mckay:

morjana
March 8th, 2008, 12:40 AM
SGA - SciFi Channel Updates for The Last Man:

From the SciFi Channel's Stargate Atlantis site, updates for March 7, 2008:

http://www.scifi.com/atlantis/

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v443/morjana/scifi4/sand.jpg

"The Last Man"

http://www.scifi.com/atlantis/episodes/episodes.php?seas=4&ep=0420&act=1

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v443/morjana/scifi4/rononsteam.jpg


* Episode Synopsis

* Episode Photos

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v443/morjana/scifi4/desert.jpg

NEW Alex Levine Blog update for “The Last Man:”

http://blog.scifi.com/stargate/


NEXT new episode: Stargate Atlantis‘ Season Five Premiere "Search and Rescue" -- Sometime (hopefully July -- possibly September) this year!




NEW Quiz:

http://www.scifi.com/atlantis/quizzes/seasonfour/index.php?start=1

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v443/morjana/scifi4/quiz_pic_seasonfour.jpg

Season Four Wrap-Up

March 8, 2008

So, you saw every episode this season — but were you paying attention? Take the Season Four Wrap-up trivia quiz and find out!


GET IN THE GATE SWEEPSTAKES - The Iris Closes March 14, 008!

http://www.scifi.com/getinthegate/


<><><><>

From the MGM Stargate site:

Unlock the Gate Sweepstakes

http://stargate.mgm.com/promotions/sweepstakes_code.php

The Gate closes on March 13, 2008.

AutumnDream
March 8th, 2008, 12:41 AM
It was about as good as I expect from SGA. The concept could have been executed in several really neat ways, but I guess choosing the most predictable format is cool these days. Way to end it in the least compelling, least poetic way possible though. The myriad of potential endings they could have had... oh, it makes me weep. Or rather, it would if I didn't totally expect them to pull a "oh no will the team die or will they not die this is very exciting *does backflip*" ending.

Why did JM hype up the "last frame of the episode will have audiences in an uproar!!!" thing? It was basically the same "last frame" as dozens of other episodes. Because of his hyping, the whole time I was wondering what crazy ending they might have had in store, and it was that.

Another fine PR job by TPTB.

david2708
March 8th, 2008, 12:51 AM
It was about as good as I expect from SGA. The concept could have been executed in several really neat ways, but I guess choosing the most predictable format is cool these days. Way to end it in the least compelling, least poetic way possible though. The myriad of potential endings they could have had... oh, it makes me weep. Or rather, it would if I didn't totally expect them to pull a "oh no will the team die or will they not die this is very exciting *does backflip*" ending.

Why did JM hype up the "last frame of the episode will have audiences in an uproar!!!" thing? It was basically the same "last frame" as dozens of other episodes. Because of his hyping, the whole time I was wondering what crazy ending they might have had in store, and it was that.

Another fine PR job by TPTB.
JM is notorious in the hyperbole department. After so many years you learn to take it with a grain of salt. Sad thing is we're in for more of it for at least another year until SciFi pull the plug probably at the end of the 5th season.

SoulAssassino
March 8th, 2008, 12:57 AM
I liked this ep very much, and i'm right now thanking god that it didn't end in a very huge cliffhanger. It's obvious that they won't kill off 90% of the main cast with a building collapsing on them, they either get beamed out in the last second (probability:1%) survive but get stuck (probability: 70%) Rodney survives, everything goes bad again, and he reprogrammes the hologram(probability: 10%). If they do get stuck, they'll either get captured, or pinned down by Michael. The only one i'm concerned about is Maj. Lorne, i like him very much, and he's not an unkillable caracter as Sheppard, Mckay, Teyla, Carter or Ronon.

Edit: Ford could step in, kick Michaels ass, save the day and re-join the team!!(probability: -5%:( )

I was a bit disappointed about the Phoenix's shields, the Daedalus survived way longer against two hives in many occasions, and the Phoenix had more advanced systems than the Daedalus had back then...I'm sure we will see her again, and i think we're gonna love this ship.(not as much as the Prometheus or the Daedalus though)And asgard weapons finished off that hive in 3 shots...cool!

My idea for atlantis base command: General Jack O'neill

Anyone knows when we'll get season 5?

docballen
March 8th, 2008, 12:57 AM
I really enjoyed this episode... but I feel like a moron and need something explained to me.

What was Rodney's plan???

I understood the idea that Shep was 48,000 years in the future and that it was a "hologram" of Rodney that he was talking to. I never understood how "current era" Rodney knew Shep had gone 48,000 years into the future. ANd then, he figures out how to make the "interactive" hologram-- which waits for Shep's signal to engage talking and moving around.

The only part I got of the rescue plan was for Shep to go into stasis for roughly 1,000 years.

What happened after that?? Was that how long it was going to take for another solar flare to happen-- one that would bring him back home???(I can't wait for the transcript of this episode...)

And I'd like to know what happened to the baby, too. I suppose that's Season 5 material.

david2708
March 8th, 2008, 01:09 AM
As with the theme, the cliffhanger will be resolved by a going back in time-yet again-and stop them from going into the building in the first place.
TPTB will always look for an easy way out.

Willow'sCat
March 8th, 2008, 01:12 AM
Hmm....very average kind of episode. Could have really appeared anywhere in the season and easily forgotten. One of the poorest final ep episodes of the show.
Very dodgy/fake looking SFX in the final 'cliffanger'.
A cliffhanger that also reeked of we don't know what we're doing next year. Just trap em in a blown up building. Very unimaginative.The special FX were kinda weak, even the mass of people looked so computer generate. *shrugs* All the little space battles probably blew the budget. :rolleyes:

As for McKay only starting to work on his theory of a way to bring back Sheppard because of Keller's death, well everyone was telling him that Sheppard was dead. Maybe after a while he started to doubt his own gut instincts, also the whole Atlantis thing was going badly.

I think Keller's death was the catalyst to get him thinking again but not the sole reason for him continuing for 25 years. Those reasons were more complex then just wanting to save Keller. Also he is a scientist like any scientist he would know in theory the likelihood of him and Keller being together again, after Sheppard was saved, would be slim given it was the losses and the time together that drew them to one and other in the first place.

Also he would know that only Sheppard would remember... unless (and I am waiting for the fanfic) he hid a note only younger!McKay would find where he explains it all! lol :D

As for Joe M... while I am here. ;)

This was in no way the finale he made it out to be in his many entries in his blog, no I am not surprised just a little saddened that he would see fit to embellish rather then just let the episode speak for itself. Why even as a Show-runner build up an episode that in the end is a weak finale... it just adds to the disappointment, better to say nothing then people can just shrug and wait for season 5.

It was also not a tear-jerker, I almost felt sad when Keller died, but only for Rodney. The other deaths were just silly. Even Sam's was lame, I mean going down with the ship! Cliched, and she looked constipated not heroic. :P The way Joe was talking I thought this would be a three Kleenex box eppy, not a *I think I have something in my eye* eppy. :P

Finally! This does show us that Joe M had no idea Woolsey was going to take over command for real in season 5 when they wrote this! LOL How ironic! :P He made him even less sympathetic then usual, that is going to make fans want him as the new Leader!:cool:

chensuu
March 8th, 2008, 01:39 AM
As for McKay only starting to work on his theory of a way to bring back Sheppard because of Keller's death, well everyone was telling him that Sheppard was dead. Maybe after a while he started to doubt his own gut instincts, also the whole Atlantis thing was going badly.

I think Keller's death was the catalyst to get him thinking again but not the sole reason for him continuing for 25 years. Those reasons were more complex then just wanting to save Keller. Also he is a scientist like any scientist he would know in theory the likelihood of him and Keller being together again, after Sheppard was saved, would be slim given it was the losses and the time together that drew them to one and other in the first place.


That makes sense except that Rodney believed Sheppard was alive before he decided to bail and leave Atlantis.

The way the storyline presented it, if Keller had lived she would have kept her private medical practice and Rodney would have continued his work as a physicist and they would have continued as a happy couple. They were so sugary sweet together walking down the streets of Vancouver I could practically hear the birds singing.

Why then would Rodney decide to finally do something to save Sheppard and right the wrongs of two galaxies when the change to the timeline would mean his relationship with Keller never existed, ie, the catalyst never occurred? He only had his epiphany when Keller was pronounced terminal. Also, the episode never presented any visible interest of Rodney's to bring Sheppard back at all or do anything to mess with the timeline once during the flashback sequence.

I'm assuming a fair amount of time passes between Shep going missing, and Teyla, Ronon and Carter dying. And in all that time Rodney was inactive to try and bring Sheppard home, the one friend he knew was still alive.

I guess it gives me an icky feeling to think that Sheppard's first thought when he realized things were not right would probably be "Rodney will figure this out" and if the reality of the situation was different and Keller lived he'd probably never see the Atlantis he knew again. :(

On another note. This episode has totally given me insomnia.

metabog
March 8th, 2008, 02:00 AM
Michael is now my all time favorite enemy... that was just intense.

JackHarkness_Hot
March 8th, 2008, 02:06 AM
Well I thought this...


It's bloody fantastic! The whole, Sheppard stepping through the gate to find himself 48,000 years in the future, the dried up planet and I would have loved to see the evacuation order given when they decided to abandon the city.

The what if lives of Carter, Teyla, Ronan, Keller and McKay's life.. truly a remarkable episode. Very well written and fantastically acted out, bravo, bravo! Plus the incidental music used and created for this episode, beautiful!

I can't really say that the uniform looked good on Woolsey, it looked kinda gross TBH. I hope he retains wearing his suit in Season 5.

Brilliant episode and I can't wait to see the conclusion! :)

I_C_Ancients
March 8th, 2008, 02:16 AM
the building probably falls in a such a way that the team is stuck but not crushed

I think your totally right.

I want season 5 now. This season ender was just AWESOME!!!:jonas:

david2708
March 8th, 2008, 02:17 AM
Michael is now my all time favorite enemy... that was just intense.

Pfftt!! He'll always......ALWAYS be TRIP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!;)

JackHarkness_Hot
March 8th, 2008, 02:26 AM
Oh yes, the whole Wraith Queen decapitation was a big shock for me, only cos Atlantis as a show never really did anything that extreme before as Season 4 has been more or less, been safe. Your typical conservative and safe routine. So who ever wrote that particular scene, finally, taking the series up a notch, well done!

metabog
March 8th, 2008, 02:31 AM
Yeah Atlantis is really looking up.

SGFerrit
March 8th, 2008, 02:36 AM
Okay, what the hell is with the ship inconsistencies, im sick of it. For some reason, in unending, the odyssey was able to get back into the milky way before their shields had even finished recharging, yet it still takes the Daedalus 3 weeks to make the trip to atlantis and back. Also, there's no way that 4 hives can destroy a 304 that quickly. In AoT, the odyssey takess on maybe 10 minutes of ori beam weapons fire until the shield fails. I mean seriously. ******* plot shields!

Well, the Odyssey has a ZPM. The Odyssey upgrades were installed by the Asgard, not by humans. The Odyssey was overrun by Replicators who likely boosted the shields.

It's really not that much of a stretch that it's shields would be considerably better. Plus, the Phoenix was caught off guard, as holo-McKay said, Sam thought she was going to get there first.


I loved this ep. Best season finale of Atlantis yet imo. I loved seeing Atlantis in the sand, I loved how powerful Michael became, I loved the fact that there is someone who actually 'remembers' and can tell the story, I loved Carter and the Phoenix (especially taking out 3 hives by sacrificing herself). I (don't hit me) think Woolsey will be great. People seem to moan about him being a coward and an ass. But why is that so bad. Why do we need another great/perfect leader after Weir and Sam? This should be VERY different.

Two cons:
1. I didn't feel the ep was long enough
2. The cliff hanger end wasn't as good as others, they should have shown one of the character's being hit by falling debris to increase the suspense.

Still loved it though. It was indeed very different:)

sarcasmo
March 8th, 2008, 03:01 AM
I’m sorry to say that the episode was frankly quite dull. In the past few years I’ve been crazy with the wait for the new season but this time I’m all “Bleuh.”

The complete lack of Teyla in this episode was offensive. The forced shipping of Rodney/Keller was ridiculous. It only takes three weeks of being trapped on a spaceship to be OMGTRULUV4EVA? I think the writers are projecting themselves a bit too much. Face it, PTW, no pretty young thing is ever going to go for a cranky man in his 40’s, not even if he’s super smart and super nice (which, honestly, Rodney isn’t. And I love him that way).

I really wish this show would hire new writers :-(

I’m going to ignore this episode and pretend that it’s AU-ness didn’t affect the main thrust of the show, much like I did with SG-1 after Season 9.

reddevil18
March 8th, 2008, 03:10 AM
Personally, I loved TLM. It wasn't action-packed, like BAMSR or as emotional as Unending(yes, I almost cried during the "Have you seen the rain..." montage), but it was a nice combination. Plus, I love this type of episode.
I loved Sam going down with the ship.
I loved that "Minority Report" thing they had in the future - you know, the glove and screen thingy.
I LOVED Todd and Ronon. My God, what a team these 2 make! If they don't give us more of that in season 5, I'll be sooooooooooo mad!
I loved seeing Teyla dead...Err...yeah...
I liked seeing a glimpse of what the expedition under Woolsey's leadership might look like.
I even liked Keller.
I would have liked to see them address the Carson situation - like having him in a stasis chamber next to John...:p
Overall, I liked this episode very much.

segaxgames
March 8th, 2008, 03:32 AM
Completely agree with your last bit :p It's not like they are really going to die.. why show everything collapsing in on them..

...I wouldn't be sure about that. None of us could have even guessed that Wier, Ford, Beckett... and that hot pyscologist woman would be killed off, but they were.

lol

segaxgames
March 8th, 2008, 03:39 AM
Well, the Odyssey has a ZPM. The Odyssey upgrades were installed by the Asgard, not by humans. The Odyssey was overrun by Replicators who likely boosted the shields.

It's really not that much of a stretch that it's shields would be considerably better. Plus, the Phoenix was caught off guard, as holo-McKay said, Sam thought she was going to get there first.


I loved this ep. Best season finale of Atlantis yet imo. I loved seeing Atlantis in the sand, I loved how powerful Michael became, I loved the fact that there is someone who actually 'remembers' and can tell the story, I loved Carter and the Phoenix (especially taking out 3 hives by sacrificing herself). I (don't hit me) think Woolsey will be great. People seem to moan about him being a coward and an ass. But why is that so bad. Why do we need another great/perfect leader after Weir and Sam? This should be VERY different.

Two cons:
1. I didn't feel the ep was long enough
2. The cliff hanger end wasn't as good as others, they should have shown one of the character's being hit by falling debris to increase the suspense.

Still loved it though. It was indeed very different:)


I throughly liked this episode. It had its bad parts, i.e. it was so predictable that John would have had to go back in time and save the lives of the expidition team. It was also predictable that the pheonix would have been destroyed. Finally it was predictable that John would find a way back to atlantis...lol

so so predictable.

BTW How old is John now? LOL, he might be older than tealc. :O

segaxgames
March 8th, 2008, 03:40 AM
How Old Is John Sheppard Now?

He Has Got To Be Like 500 Years Old Or Something. Lol...and To Think

He Doesn't Look A Day Over Thirty.

The_Carpenter
March 8th, 2008, 03:43 AM
How Old Is John Sheppard Now?

He Has Got To Be Like 500 Years Old Or Something. Lol...and To Think

He Doesn't Look A Day Over Thirty.
Statis pods :D I'm guessing in the 25 years that passed they improved the design somehow.

I'm more intrigued into what McKay was refering to when he mentioned things had gone to hell in the Milky Way tbh.

reddevil18
March 8th, 2008, 03:46 AM
I'm more intrigued into what McKay was refering to when he mentioned things had gone to hell in the Milky Way tbh.

As someone pointed out with the uniforms, the US of the future is a fascist regime. :D

The_Carpenter
March 8th, 2008, 03:48 AM
As someone pointed out with the uniforms, the US of the future is a fascist regime. :D
Ahhh but what caused that? I sense a set up for a another stargate spinoff :D

reddevil18
March 8th, 2008, 03:52 AM
As for Joe M... while I am here. ;)

This was in no way the finale he made it out to be in his many entries in his blog, no I am not surprised just a little saddened that he would see fit to embellish rather then just let the episode speak for itself. Why even as a Show-runner build up an episode that in the end is a weak finale... it just adds to the disappointment, better to say nothing then people can just shrug and wait for season 5.

It was also not a tear-jerker, I almost felt sad when Keller died, but only for Rodney. The other deaths were just silly. Even Sam's was lame, I mean going down with the ship! Cliched, and she looked constipated not heroic. :P The way Joe was talking I thought this would be a three Kleenex box eppy, not a *I think I have something in my eye* eppy. :PWell, maybe you feel that way, but others don't. Don't generalize. I for one loved the episode and found it very emotional. To me, it doesn't feel like he built it up only to end up with a weak episode.


Finally! This does show us that Joe M had no idea Woolsey was going to take over command for real in season 5 when they wrote this! LOL How ironic! :P He made him even less sympathetic then usual, that is going to make fans want him as the new Leader!:cool: Ummm...yeah. I'd say that's a fair bet. I'm not sure they knew yet that Amanda was leaving when they wrote this. And, BTW, Joe didn't write the episode, so it's not him that made him less sympathetic. If anything, I'd say that, after they did this episode, they thought Woolsey would be a good idea in the role of leader.

Wayston
March 8th, 2008, 03:52 AM
It was a reasonable good episode but I missed action.

Rather than Sheppard's sandstorm excursion (too remeniscent of the space walk at the beginning of the show and the quarantine climb...) I would have preferred to see more battles between Michael's forces and the atlantis/pegasis locals forces. It seemed a bit too low budget for a season finale. Since everyone's death scenes are essentially just makebelief in that they will never actually happen it would have been so much cooler had they been more drawn out and full of desparate 'last stand' action. It's really a missed chance to go overboard on cool military scenes.

Since it was makebelief it also would have been nice to find out what Michael would have done after taking pegasus. It would have been great to have some alternative history scenes giving clues about what will happen to earth rather than go for "omg we got some sand in here".

silly sally
March 8th, 2008, 03:53 AM
I didn't get how Shep ended in Atlantis when SG-1 in '1969' ended back on Earth! Shep should have ended back on the planet where he was in the beginning with Lorne, unless Atlantis moved to that planet in the future!

reddevil18
March 8th, 2008, 03:54 AM
Ahhh but what caused that? I sense a set up for a another stargate spinoff :D
Isn't it obvious? Hammond of Texas runs for President in 2012. He wins and then he turns to the dark side. With Daniel as his apprentice, they rule the world.

reddevil18
March 8th, 2008, 03:56 AM
I didn't get how Shep ended in Atlantis when SG-1 in '1969' ended back on Earth! Shep should have ended back on the planet where he was in the beginning with Lorne, unless Atlantis moved to that planet in the future!
Well, I'm not even going to pretend that this makes sense, but...In 1969, wasn't it actually OUR sun that had the flare? In TLM, it seems like the sun in Atlantis' solar system had the flare, so, most likely, he was sent to the gate he was closest to - in Atlantis.
I don't know...it sorta makes sense to me...

silly sally
March 8th, 2008, 04:01 AM
Well, I'm not even going to pretend that this makes sense, but...In 1969, wasn't it actually OUR sun that had the flare? In TLM, it seems like the sun in Atlantis' solar system had the flare, so, most likely, he was sent to the gate he was closest to - in Atlantis.
I don't know...it sorta makes sense to me...

From what I understand it's the sun from that planet that causes the solar flair - have to go watch that part again...

reddevil18
March 8th, 2008, 04:06 AM
Rodney just says "It's in the sensor log. A solar flare capable of interfering with the wormhole from M4S-587 at exactly the moment that Lorne says he dialed"...It doesn't say which sun it is, but I doubt they'd have the sensors monitoring the entire galaxy, ya know? It's not even possible. I'm pretty sure it's Atlantis' sun...

aquagirl
March 8th, 2008, 04:10 AM
Great episode. I can't wait until season 5. The ending was typical. I think they could off done it a little more tens. ;)

silly sally
March 8th, 2008, 04:16 AM
Anyway it's all Rodney's or Zelenka's fault! 'Update glitch' :)

Linzi
March 8th, 2008, 04:18 AM
Well, this was a very different type of season finale, and one which I really enjoyed. There was so many bits I liked, but I can't mention them all!

So, the highlights.


I gasped at the bit where Michael held up the Wraith Queen's head! I was so taken aback. I really don't like decapitations, so I found it a bit icky, but it really made me think Michael is totally mad. I mean what a villain! After recent events I was feeling he'd been shortchanged by the writers a bit, but wow, he was evil here. And I totally loved that. CT plays evil very well, and I found myself being repulsed by Michael for the first time! I like that. So, yep, the head bit was not to my taste, but it really hammered home to me how evil and warped Michael has become. Who'd have thought I'd ever feel sorry for a wraith queen?

So, I've watched the episode twice now.

I really liked it.

Thought Sheppard and McKay, Joe/David were both as wonderful as usual. I loved Sheppard's angst at knowing everyone was dead, and thought David aged pretty well and looked 25 years older. Only why do the make-up folks never age the hands? :confused:

I liked the interaction between the pair, but then again I usually do!

I had pretty much guessed that the HoloMcKay would be telling the stories of the fates of our heroes. But, I was glad they were short vignettes. That worked very well for me, as did how they were interspersed with events 48,000 years in the future. It wasn't boring or slow paced. It was pretty perfect for me, I have to say.

Loved Sheppard walking through the sandstorm. I saw the piccies of it being filmed on JM's blog all those months ago, and wow! Did the FX guys do a good job there. As they did with the abadoned sandblasted Atlantis. Great stuff! :)

One slight nitpick concerning the sand blasting of Sheppard. Sand at that high speed would strip your skin off! And also Shep was weak before he went into stasis, so surely he'd have been terrible after it? Because there were no supplies in Atlantis. So he had no food etc.. and surely after all that time asleep and in suspended animation you'd be as weak as a kitten? Oh well, I'm prepared to let it go, but I could have done with a little more reality there!

Loved how Shep and HoloMcKay played off each other. Thought both Joe and David were awesome here. They have such wonderful chemistry. :)

I felt sad and yet proud of both Sam and Ronon's deaths.

Sam's one was fitting. She sacrificed herself taking out three hive ships. Very impressive, yet sad. She was so damn brave! Sniff!


Ronon and Todd going out together. How fitting. Two enemies taking out a mutual enemy together? Again, fitting and poignant. What a way to go for both characters.

Teyla's ending was sad. Albeit brief! I do think Michael would kill her once he's taken the baby. And I loved Rodney's face when he saw she was dead! :(

Keller and McKay? Well, I have to say I'm not a shipper, as I'm sure many know! I can't picture those two together, not in the present timeline. However, in the context, I do think that because everyone else had died that they could have found solace in each other. So that isn't a stretch for me. I did think Keller coughing into her hand and blood showing was a bit clichéd. I half expected her to have consumption! ;) (Only kidding! ) Her infirmary scenes were good, though I couldn't feel terribly sad about her impending demise. I just don't feel Keller is part of the Atlantis family quite yet. She's got a way to go before I care for her as much as I care for the other team members, to be honest. But I did think Jewel did a very good job here, and I felt very sorry for McKay. I guess Keller's death was the final straw for McKay. The death of a loved one did spur him to action. perhaps? :lol:

I loved how Sheppard asked about the Superbowl results! Joe delivered those lines so well, and it really made me smile. I also thought it was sad how Sheppard realised he might never wake up yet despite the fear on his face, just got on with it without hystrionics or a tearful goodbye.

The cliffie? Well I was hoping for something a little more specific for Sheppard after reading some spoilers. Guess there's a message to myself there! Don't read them! ;) But it was fine as far as cliffies go. Who's survived, etc? Well all of the main team obviously. But you never know, some may be injured. Maybe even Sheppard? Here's hoping. Well you can't blame a girl for hoping, can you? ;)

So, a good episode. Moving in parts, a compelling story. Dialogue was well written, acting was excellent - top notch as was the directing. Not a traditional season finale, but I quite liked the change. So, it gets a high score from me. 9/10.

I look forward to seeing Search and Rescue.

I have to say, I think was Paul Mullie's best script so far. So well done to him, and to the actors too, particularly Joe and David. :)

rarocks24
March 8th, 2008, 04:20 AM
No biggie :) Plus...There were Replicators onboard in AoT, and we know how they love to boost shields...
Besides, hive weapons are amongst the most powerful in Stargate. We also saw Michael blow apart a hive in under 3 seconds, don't forget :O

Actually, our weapons are the most powerful. The hit and run tactics showed a hive taking like, one hit from our beam weapon and then going "BOOM". Michael hit the Wraith after they've been chugging it out for a little while.

iolanda
March 8th, 2008, 04:37 AM
This episode was simply incredible.

There is so much to think about, I can't put it into words (I even can't put it into the words of my native language).

I loved it - with tears in my eyes since McKay said "then we buried another empty casket". I loved it.

Anybody mentioned, that Carter kinda fell for McKay?

Nevertheless McKay/Keller was SO sad. They made a fine couple.

So many other aspects to talk about. Ronon/Todd. McKay/Mrs.Miller. General Lorne. OldMcKay. The sandstorm. John. The end. 1000 other aspects.

AGateFan
March 8th, 2008, 04:38 AM
As someone pointed out with the uniforms, the US of the future is a fascist regime. :D
What makes you think that was a US uniform and not an IOA uniform. The UN are the fascist regime who took over the planet with american freedom fighter movement causing the problems McKay alluded too ;).

The_Carpenter
March 8th, 2008, 04:40 AM
Anyway it's all Rodney's or Zelenka's fault! 'Update glitch' :)

I don't understand why Dr Z. is gonna get a stern talking to about that... he inadvertently saved the Galaxy :zelenka25:

reddevil18
March 8th, 2008, 04:41 AM
What makes you think that was a US uniform and not an IOA uniform. The UN are the fascist regime who took over the planet with american freedom fighter movement causing the problems McKay alluded too ;).

Well, they still have the US flag in the corner. Obviously, Lorne works for the USAF. His uniform is fascist. As such, the US is ruled by fascists. Q.E.D.

AGateFan
March 8th, 2008, 04:50 AM
Well, they still have the US flag in the corner. Obviously, Lorne works for the USAF. His uniform is fascist. As such, the US is ruled by fascists. Q.E.D.
When the unity world government takes over the world, everyone will work for them. Sure they may keep the trappings of and independant governments to try to quell the rebellions but ultimatly the evil facist are those of the unified government, not those in the supposedily "independant" states. States completely dependant on the Worldo currency and ruled by the UN general assembly. No doubt the US bared the brunt of the hatred of the rest of the world and is just a poor oppressed state. But there is a general freedom movement. Its not just in America as there are many others oppressed in the world where they cant smoke, drink, eat transfats, play video games, skii, hike.... go shopping without gloves or wipies to keep people from getting their germs. Oh and of course they didnt show the planet falling into the new iceage.........

freetoken
March 8th, 2008, 04:56 AM
The complete lack of Teyla in this episode was offensive. The forced shipping of Rodney/Keller was ridiculous. It only takes three weeks of being trapped on a spaceship to be OMGTRULUV4EVA?

Already in this season we have seen Keller making advances on Rodney (and others) so no, it didn't seem that forced to me.

Indeed, that relationship seems, upon review, to be very reasonable.

What did not seem reasonable was the lead man not being more tattered from the sand storm, or not being in poor shape when he returned to his original time.

To me, the major weakness of the story is that the story line itself is a rerun of previous Stargate storielines... e.g., one main character remembering a future that has now been averted.

Also, we get back to the problem as faced in Moebius and the other time travel - change - the - history episodes. In other words, we are not any longer watching the SGA universe that started way back in season 1 ep 1, but now we really are watching an alternate universe. It is way, WAY too easy an out for a sci-fi writer to take. The problem is that this approach minimizes, even eliminates, any real drama (e.g., now Sam doesn't die taking out three other ships, etc.)

To remove the sting of death via alternate universe scenarios is the lowest form of sci-fi writing, IMO.

Otherwise, some good moments from the two leading characters.

reddevil18
March 8th, 2008, 04:59 AM
When the unity world government takes over the world, everyone will work for them. Sure they may keep the trappings of and independant governments to try to quell the rebellions but ultimatly the evil facist are those of the unified government, not those in the supposedily "independant" states. States completely dependant on the Worldo currency and ruled by the UN general assembly. No doubt the US bared the brunt of the hatred of the rest of the world and is just a poor oppressed state. But there is a general freedom movement. Its not just in America as there are many others oppressed in the world where they cant smoke, drink, eat transfats, play video games, skii, hike.... go shopping without gloves or wipies to keep people from getting their germs. Oh and of course they didnt show the planet falling into the new iceage.........

Reading all that, you know what I thought was missing? A Rambo to the US's taliban resistance...:lol:
Personally, I like to imagine that the great Hammond became president in 2012 and immediately transformed the country into a totalitarian regime, using his superior tech. That's ll teach those *******s in Washington for trying to interfere with his command of the SGC over the years...Actually, Cassandra at the end of "1969" also lives in this future. She is empress of the world and she tricks SG-1, by telling them "It's all going to be okay. Don't even try to alter the timeline, m'kay?"

Colonel Eriksen
March 8th, 2008, 05:12 AM
Great episode can´t wait too the next one

It was a cool way for Sam and Ronan too die

And it was cool that Lorne was in change but was rank was he it was not general stars

reddevil18
March 8th, 2008, 05:15 AM
Great episode can´t wait too the next one

It was a cool way for Sam and Ronan too die

And it was cool that Lorne was in change but was rank was he it was not general stars

Obviously, they wanted a change in style, so they went with squares instead of stars. But Rodney calls him general and the plaque on his desk reads 2 star general E. Lorne.

The_Carpenter
March 8th, 2008, 05:17 AM
Great episode can´t wait too the next one

It was a cool way for Sam and Ronan too die

And it was cool that Lorne was in change but was rank was he it was not general stars
He was a General, perhaps the rank insignia changed with the uniforms ;)

Ruffles
March 8th, 2008, 05:23 AM
I really enjoyed this episode... but I feel like a moron and need something explained to me.

What was Rodney's plan???

I understood the idea that Shep was 48,000 years in the future and that it was a "hologram" of Rodney that he was talking to. I never understood how "current era" Rodney knew Shep had gone 48,000 years into the future. ANd then, he figures out how to make the "interactive" hologram-- which waits for Shep's signal to engage talking and moving around.

The only part I got of the rescue plan was for Shep to go into stasis for roughly 1,000 years.

What happened after that?? Was that how long it was going to take for another solar flare to happen-- one that would bring him back home???(I can't wait for the transcript of this episode...)

And I'd like to know what happened to the baby, too. I suppose that's Season 5 material.

To your first bolded statement - I'm sure when Sheppard entered the wormhole on whatever planet he and Lorne's team were on and then didn't exit in Atlantis, Rodney and crew began running diagnostics. They probably thought he'd been bounced to another gate (based on their shock at seeing him "12 days" later. But the first time around he didn't come back. Eventually, Rodney or Radek would have noticed the solar flare and since Sam had already been through something like that they put 2 and 2 together and figured out what had happened.

To your second bolded statement - the solar flare was coming in 700-1000 years or so. That's why he had to go into stasis. The flare that would send him back would occur several hundred years in the future.


I don't see this. I'm sorry, I guess I'm just the only one here taking crazy pills or something because I can't imagine a universe with a Rodney who accepts things without trying.

And why would Rodney wait a couple of years and then decide to do something if Keller lived? The way the storyline presented it, if Keller never died then Rodney wouldn't have done anything. She's the catalyst, obviously the "death of a loved one" in Mallozzi's poem. Rodney would have lived out his life with Keller and not tried to change anything at all that happened in the past with his friends and teammates dying because to do so would have ended his romance.

So, whether Rodney decided to change the future of Earth and Pegasus revolved around Keller living or dying. It would have made more sense to me if he started working on something, anything, when he realized Sheppard was alive and then continued it as events unfolded. To give this type of importance to new character Keller after a quickie forced relationship IMO is ridiculous especially when we've spent four years understanding the value and love Rodney places on his team. :mckay:

I understand your frustration. Here's how I see it. When they lose Sheppard then Teyla then Sam then Ronon, he doesn't have the time to devote to bringing Sheppard back. They are in the middle of a massive war. He states on the Daedalus that he and Keller discuss what they could have done differently and come up with nothing.

To me that says either burnout or dry spell. They start over. But when Jennifer is diagnosed with the Hoffan disease, he starts thinking "What if". They don't have a cure because they didn't stay. They didn't stay because Michael took over the galaxy. Michael took over because he had Teyla's baby. He had Teyla's baby because they couldn't find her. If he could only go back in time.... He can't, but he knows someone who can. He has a Eureka! moment.


That makes sense except that Rodney believed Sheppard was alive before he decided to bail and leave Atlantis.

The way the storyline presented it, if Keller had lived she would have kept her private medical practice and Rodney would have continued his work as a physicist and they would have continued as a happy couple. They were so sugary sweet together walking down the streets of Vancouver I could practically hear the birds singing.

Why then would Rodney decide to finally do something to save Sheppard and right the wrongs of two galaxies when the change to the timeline would mean his relationship with Keller never existed, ie, the catalyst never occurred? He only had his epiphany when Keller was pronounced terminal. Also, the episode never presented any visible interest of Rodney's to bring Sheppard back at all or do anything to mess with the timeline once during the flashback sequence.

I'm assuming a fair amount of time passes between Shep going missing, and Teyla, Ronon and Carter dying. And in all that time Rodney was inactive to try and bring Sheppard home, the one friend he knew was still alive.

I guess it gives me an icky feeling to think that Sheppard's first thought when he realized things were not right would probably be "Rodney will figure this out" and if the reality of the situation was different and Keller lived he'd probably never see the Atlantis he knew again. :(

On another note. This episode has totally given me insomnia.

To your bolded statement, there was no way for Rodney to bring Sheppard home in his lifetime. Not much time passed between Sheppard going missing and Teyla dying (no more than 2 months). After 12 days, Rodney didn't know about the solar flare. Only later on do we find out that he figured it out (and that no one believes him). His time on Atlantis was filled with fighting a war.

Only after he goes back to Earth would he have had time to figure out how to "save" Sheppard. But by that time he'd fallen in love with Jennifer. Maybe he was being selfish. He'd lost everything else. She was all he had left. But then he lost her too.

If she hadn't gotten sick, who knows? Maybe he would live his life. Maybe after the honeymoon phase was over, his brain would kick in, and he'd begin to plot a way to help Sheppard.

*shrugs* I'm not trying to discount your feelings. I'm sorry you didn't like the way it played out. But I found it to be a logical progression for him. McKay doesn't handle loss well. I'm sure losing his team, friends, job, the war, etc. took an incredible emotional toll on him, and he needed time to decompress.

rarocks24
March 8th, 2008, 05:23 AM
I'm not completely sure, but that Queen didn't look like she was played by Andee Frizell.

Anyone got a name? For a second I kinda thought they put Keller in Wraith makeup.

SheylaRand
March 8th, 2008, 05:29 AM
Well, I say the last few minutes was all a dream sheppard had while in the stasis chamber!!!!! :P
I enjoyed the episode...Ronon's smile as he blew himself and todd up, Sam crashing into a hive ship then taking out three, Jeannie helping her brother, and General Lorne... yep he would do it! (Who can forget the look on his face when he returned to Atlantis and told them he had lost Teyla? yep he felt deep guilt there!). Great final scene!

I completely agree with you. We never actually see Shep dialing the gate or Future Rodney helping him. I was actually listening to "So Far Away" by Staind and it hit me. That is a dream. Sneaky!:cool:

samkicksass
March 8th, 2008, 05:33 AM
Completely agree with your last bit :p It's not like they are really going to die.. why show everything collapsing in on them..

No, but it does keep with the theme, action of the episode - all of the tragic endings of the characters because of John's misstep into the future. The thing I love about this show and other sci fi is that we know they're not going to die (most of the time) - the fun part is seeing how they get out of it.

Mekarri
March 8th, 2008, 05:36 AM
Nice episode. Everything turns south after Shep disappears. Nice. Anyways, I really liked it. I can't wait until we get to see the start of season 5 to find out what happened.

One problem for me, Sheppard goes to the stasis chamber room and not even a mention of Carson? He just got frozen in there the last episode and they don't even mention what happens to him... Wow...
I love this ep. But I was wondering what happen to Carson as well. I thought they would mention something about Carson, since they were putting Shep in the pod. I loved the way the major character went out fighting and that with each lost of a team member it got harder and harder to keep going. I like the way they wrote this because it showed that the team was more than friends that they were family. And as anyone knows when you loose a close family member the sky always seems gray. And if you loose too many family member in a short time it can destroy you inside. You are still alive physically but inside you are just as dead as the people you lost. At least that what I felt Rodney must have been feeling. Again, I absolutely loved this show.

Landers
March 8th, 2008, 05:51 AM
Well, they still have the US flag in the corner. Obviously, Lorne works for the USAF. His uniform is fascist. As such, the US is ruled by fascists. Q.E.D.

In the old SG1 episode, "The Road Not Taken", Gen. Landry had become president and the government seemed to be run by the military. Perhaps something similar happens on our own Earth. But we didn't get any info on that, and TPTB will probably never mention it again. I guess we are supposed to believe this has to do with Shep's disappearance too. :rolleyes:

Klenotka
March 8th, 2008, 05:54 AM
Very good episode. Very unusual finale. And David with Jewel sold this episode for me. I was sceptical about it but they are really great together! Their scenes were cute and I actually cried when she died. This didn´t happen to me since Before I sleep.
They were very convincing and their last scene was believeable.

I loved broken Rodney and his determination to save everyone. Especially after Jennifer died. Seriously, what can be more romantic than change the past bc of a beloved woman? Now, I hope they could continue this relationship but as I know tptb, it won´t happen. No kids, please, just nice relationship.
How Rodney sacrificed his life just to save the others, it was amazing and very similar to what Elizabeth did. But I am sure someone certainly say how selfish and egoistic Rodney is :mckay: He probably really would have died to convince some people. :rolleyes:

And more things could continue. I didn´t miss Teyla at all
. I wouldn´t mind if she just...disappeared. It was her best performance in an entire season - lying dead on the ground.

I liked Sam as a ship commander. It fits her more because she is still more action person. I hope she will really get a Phoenix in S5 under her command. I liked her cooperation with Rodney, too. I think if they would give her ship command in the first place, then her presence in S4 might have been different and much better.

Woolsey in red uniform, weird and I hope he won´t be like that in S5. It could mean interesting conflicts but when the two last most capable people leave bc of his command, or bc of IOA´s decisions, something obviously isn´t right.

And yay for Lorne to let Rodney do it! Lorne is great! I love Lorne! :D

I am disappointed that we haven´t seen more Zelenka in this one. He just went in the background and then was mentioned twice. I hate when they are mentioning people and events. I want to see the people and the events. Mentioning isn´t enough for me.

Those are some impressions.
I guess times of Siege episodes are gone but this was at least different and unsual finale and definitely better than most of S4 episodes.

The_Carpenter
March 8th, 2008, 05:56 AM
In the old SG1 episode, "The Road Not Taken", Gen. Landry had become president and the government seemed to be run by the military. Perhaps something similar happens on our own Earth. But we didn't get any info on that, and TPTB will probably never mention it again. I guess we are supposed to believe this has to do with Shep's disappearance too. :rolleyes:
Judging as how it happens somewhere between the present and 25 years in the future don't expect an explanation in Atlantis... unless we get to Season 29/30 :p

Mekarri
March 8th, 2008, 06:00 AM
I don't know that him going missing is the cause. Even if he was there I don't think it would have changed things since they probably still wouldn't have found Teyla in time. But now that he knows where to look, he should be able to change that.
Shep going missing was not the direct cause of all the things going wrong but sometime when the person you counted on for you own emotional well being and inspiration dies its hard to keep going. They are like a close knit family. But loosing other key members would make everyone feel hopeless.

Falcon Horus
March 8th, 2008, 06:01 AM
First notice, I shouldn't have watched this after an excellent Dr. Who episode (Blink)... that was a mistake.

Secondly, it was much more fascinating to see my cat sleep than to watch this episode. He looks extremely cute and fuzzy, and it looks like he's smiling.

Onto the episode:

The good:
* Do I still have hair? - No! -> I chuckled. That was evil.
* I actually kinda liked the thing between Rodney and Jennifer - *gasp*
* Ronon going down fighting, side by side with Todd
* Atlantis in the sand - talk about Global Warming :p

The mediocre:
* the Rodney/Sheppard-show... Really 42 minutes of nothing else, with a little side-dish of others... it gets really boring.
* the IOA at its best - if this is a possible glimps of the real future ... and they could bother with conflict this could potentially be good - but I highly doubt it.

The bad:
* That CG-building - the worst ever CG they've done, I think ... That was bad. My Medal of Honor buildings look better than that. It looked like a videogame building of several years back.
* They still don't do old well. David H. bounced around like 30-something man looking 60. The make-up was mediocre at best, and they always forget the hands. People, hands age too! :mckay:
* Boring sequences of nothing
* Oh, and did they give JF tap-shoes, goes his footsteps have never echoed like this before... or was it just giving the effect he was all alone in the big city. It was annoying to say the least.
* The sandstorm - all good, but a man walking through it... Err yeah, nope, sorry... not like that.
* Woolsey looked squeezed into his uniform... one size bigger maybe.

This was the worst anti-climactic finale ever! I wonder what big reset button they will be pushing come season 5... the big red one, or the green one. The big red one equals "season 4? I don't know what you're talking about.", the green one equals "hey, remember season 4 and how we ended it with a TBC." ... I think it will be the orange one.

reddevil18
March 8th, 2008, 06:01 AM
In the old SG1 episode, "The Road Not Taken", Gen. Landry had become president and the government seemed to be run by the military. Perhaps something similar happens on our own Earth. But we didn't get any info on that, and TPTB will probably never mention it again. I guess we are supposed to believe this has to do with Shep's disappearance too. :rolleyes:
I'm sorry if I'm assuming too much, but are you suggesting that the show made it seem like all of that happened because of John's absence? Because it didn't. That would have happened anyway. It's just that his travelling through time actually gave them the opportunity to avoid all of that, by taking back with him the info on Teyla.
I actually think that what happend on Earth will still happen in this timeline. I'd say that things hit the fan in Pegasus and they restricted everything to Atlantis, without going out in the galaxy anymore, while everything went on as normal back on Earth. As such, modifying the timeline shouldn't alter the events beyond Pegasus - unless Sam now becomes President, as she isn't killed on the Phoenix and Earth becomes an utopia instead of a totalitarian regime...:S

Heaven
March 8th, 2008, 06:01 AM
this episode was kind of depressing

the Pegasus galaxy was so much better off before the Atlantis team got there

reddevil18
March 8th, 2008, 06:05 AM
this episode was kind of depressing

the Pegasus galaxy was so much better off before the Atlantis team got there

Well, I wouldn't go that far...Sure, they do tend to screw things up, but we all know they're gonna save the day in the end...;)
Unless the series finale has this sort of thing happening again. Only this time, for good.:S

Pegasus_SGA
March 8th, 2008, 06:17 AM
11 pages already? Wow you lot are a chatty bunch today. So this review might be a bit different to my normal reviews as i've just watched it.

So here goes, bear with me while I ramble (probably excessantly). :P

One of my favourite films of all times is called 'It's a Wonderful Life'. It takes the viewer on a ride, and shows us the impact of one man's life on his friends, family, the future and how inturn the difference that one person makes. So, I was surprised to find myself making a comparison with 'The Last Man' and the film I absolutely adored and have watched probably over 40 times. :o

So, was I engrossed with this eppy, the big finale as much as a film i'd seen so frequently? Mmmmm i'm going to have to go with 'no' on that one. :( The episode is very different from what we're used to, and I have to say i'm not a lover of narratives. My personality is very much action orientated or cleverly weaved elements of past story arcs interwoven into the culmination of the finale, and for me it didn't have the OMG it blew me away factor, as some of the other eps in season 4 have had for me, which is a real shame.

While I loved certain elements in this ep, the banter between Shep and Rodney. Shep's expressions at finding out he was on his own and everyone else had died. Both boys (Joe and David) played those parts really well and were exceptionally believable in their portrayal. But did I feel the urgency and the direness of the situation? Was I on the edge of my screen squeeing with delight? To a degree, there were some great moments, but on balance, it just didn't 'do' it for me.

I liked how after Shep disappeared circumstances changed, was that as a result of his disappearance? Very possibility, you don't often realise how much of an impact people make until that life is taken away from you. So, I do think that 'Shep's death/KIA/MIA' however you want to describe it was just the catalyst, the start of things to come.

So while I understand the need to 'tell the story' and 'show' past events. I guess i'm more of a chronological show me kind of person. I want and need to see the reactions of people, what that loss brought. When Shep 'died' what was the impact, how did his 'passing' change people, and change their destiny/future. Likewise with Teyla, Sam, Ronon. We saw that impact to a degree on Rodney, his passion, his not giving up, his willingness to go against the odds no matter what the personal costs to him, which was enderaing, but I needed to see that with the others. I know there's a time limit and everything, but still it just didn't work for me.

It was interested in seeing Ronon and Todd working together, and I got the impression that Ronon loved the fact that if he was going to die, he wasn't going alone and was more than happy to take the wraith with him! :D

I loved Michael going all evil, and no mercy sort of killing! But again for me, it was proably too much of a leap from what we had seen in Kindred.

As for Sam.... I got the impression that she knew this would be her last trip, and good for her for standing up to the IOA, and kicking ass!

As for Keller.... well surprisingly, I actully quite liked her in this! The smooching, hmmm, well still not convinced.

Hidden in spoilers to avoid controversy
Maybe I liked Keller in this timeline she died??!!Bad Peggy!!!

With complete seriousness, I actually liked the fact that she had the courage to stand up to Woolsey even if it was just a bit. It's a start, and allowed me to see a different side of her, but i'm surprised she quit to be honest.

And surprisingly, I liked Woolsey, he didn't seem as snifflyey or made me feel as if I wanted to slap him upside the head. So I think i'm making progress in accepting Woolsey! GO ME! :D

As for the ending.... hmmm not sure how to take it to be honest, they're all buried under rubble, hopefully hurt and injured especially sHEP, AS THAT WOULD REALLY MAKE ME SQUEE. aND YES i AM THAT SHALLOW. ;)

Did it have me on the edge of my seat? Surprisingly no... and that upsets me. Did it make me desperate to see Search and Rescue. Well in a way yes, but I don't know, maybe I need to watch it again. It was just the whole thing didn't blow me away as much as I expected. I think maybe I was expecting something completley different to this, so i've got to watch it without expecting what I was expecting? Yes, I know i'm rambling now. :lol:

I do like time travel and 'what if' stories, but I think more along the lines of 'It's a wonderful life' type of timeline as opposed to jumping from person to person, time frame to time frame.

But great acting to Joe and David, I did love their banter, and 'snorted' in a very unladylike manner about the hair thing, and the superbowel etc. But not even one tear rolled down my cheek. There should have been hugs! Then i'd have been bawling like a baby and probably would have liked it more because it hit me on a more emotional level. Yes, I am that shallow. ;)

Okay, i'm done. :D Roll on season 5 :D

The_Carpenter
March 8th, 2008, 06:20 AM
this episode was kind of depressing

the Pegasus galaxy was so much better off before the Atlantis team got there

:indeed: it seems to be Atlantis's theme, we mean well but at the end of the day just make things so much worse. Perhaps the IOA in the possible future had the right idea... study Atlantis and defend it if need be.


Well, I wouldn't go that far...Sure, they do tend to screw things up, but we all know they're gonna save the day in the end...;)
Unless the series finale has this sort of thing happening again. Only this time, for good.:S

But what price will it cost Pegasus? Season 4 has really thinned the number of natives out between the Replicators and the Hoffen drug.

bluealien
March 8th, 2008, 06:22 AM
Very good episode. Very unusual finale. And David with Jewel sold this episode for me. I was sceptical about it but they are really great together! Their scenes were cute and I actually cried when she died. This didn´t happen to me since Before I sleep.
They were very convincing and their last scene was believeable.

I loved broken Rodney and his determination to save everyone. Especially after Jennifer died. Seriously, what can be more romantic than change the past bc of a beloved woman? Now, I hope they could continue this relationship but as I know tptb, it won´t happen. No kids, please, just nice relationship.
How Rodney sacrificed his life just to save the others, it was amazing and very similar to what Elizabeth did. But I am sure someone certainly say how selfish and egoistic Rodney is :mckay: He probably really would have died to convince some people. :rolleyes:

And more things could continue. I didn´t miss Teyla at all
. I wouldn´t mind if she just...disappeared. It was her best performance in an entire season - lying dead on the ground.

I liked Sam as a ship commander. It fits her more because she is still more action person. I hope she will really get a Phoenix in S5 under her command. I liked her cooperation with Rodney, too. I think if they would give her ship command in the first place, then her presence in S4 might have been different and much better.

Woolsey in red uniform, weird and I hope he won´t be like that in S5. It could mean interesting conflicts but when the two last most capable people leave bc of his command, or bc of IOA´s decisions, something obviously isn´t right.

And yay for Lorne to let Rodney do it! Lorne is great! I love Lorne! :D

I am disappointed that we haven´t seen more Zelenka in this one. He just went in the background and then was mentioned twice. I hate when they are mentioning people and events. I want to see the people and the events. Mentioning isn´t enough for me.

Those are some impressions.
I guess times of Siege episodes are gone but this was at least different and unsual finale and definitely better than most of S4 episodes.

I think people are entitled to give their opinion of Rodney just like you continue to give your opinion of Teyla in every post you make. You seem to dish out enough criticizm of other characters especially Teyla but don't like to hear any on your favourite character. But in fact I havn't see anyone complain about Rodney's lack of sacrifice until you pointed it out.. and to me he probably sacrificed more than anyone else becasue he had to live through all their deaths.

reddevil18
March 8th, 2008, 06:24 AM
But what price will it cost Pegasus? Season 4 has really thinned the number of natives out between the Replicators and the Hoffen drug.
Well, even with all the casualties, if the expedition manages to set things straight within 7 years or so, that's still a win. Consider the fact that, otherwise, the Wraith would have thrived, possibly, for millenia. That's millions of people, maybe even billions, that would have died at their hands(literally, get it? the hand life sucking thingy? Oh, I crack myself up...) over that time. I'd say the price is more than worth it. Unless, of course, like I said, it ends with the expedition abandoning Atlantis and leaving the Pegasus Galaxy deep in...well, you know what...

fammann
March 8th, 2008, 06:24 AM
Wow that was epic. I liked it very much.

10/10

It was a bit Babylon 5 like. But thats a good thing. For me at least.

My only complaint. The big shot of the city in the sand didn't look so great and it was kind of rushed.

The_Carpenter
March 8th, 2008, 06:26 AM
I think people are entitled to give their opinion of Rodney just like you continue to give your opinion of Teyla in every post you make. You seem to dish out enough criticizm of other characters especially Teyla but don't like to hear any on your favourite character. But in fact I havn't see anyone complain about Rodney's lack of sacrifice until you pointed it out.. and to me he probably sacrificed more than anyone else becasue he had to live through all their deaths.

Not to mention he spent 25 years of his life working on his hologram and on a way to get Sheppard back, so there was a chance that things could be changed.


Well, even with all the casualties, if the expedition manages to set things straight within 7 years or so, that's still a win. Consider the fact that, otherwise, the Wraith would have thrived, possibly, for millenia. That's millions of people, maybe even billions, that would have died at their hands(literally, get it? the hand life sucking thingy? Oh, I crack myself up...) over that time. I'd say the price is more than worth it. Unless, of course, like I said, it ends with the expedition abandoning Atlantis and leaving the Pegasus Galaxy deep in...well, you know what...

True enough I suppose.

Falcon Horus
March 8th, 2008, 06:27 AM
I want and need to see the reactions of people, what that loss brought. When Shep 'died' what was the impact, how did his 'passing' change people, and change their destiny/future. Likewise with Teyla, Sam, Ronon. We saw that impact to a degree on Rodney, his passion, his not giving up, his willingness to go against the odds no matter what the personal costs to him, which was enderaing, but I needed to see that with the others. I know there's a time limit and everything, but still it just didn't work for me.

That would require emotions... TPTB don't do emotions well...they have no idea what to do with them... They're like Sheppard and emotions, BAD! Besides that would require them to use all of their cast, and they ran out of money cause they spilled it all on bad CG or overdone CG.

ToasterOnFire
March 8th, 2008, 06:29 AM
Why did JM hype up the "last frame of the episode will have audiences in an uproar!!!" thing? It was basically the same "last frame" as dozens of other episodes. Because of his hyping, the whole time I was wondering what crazy ending they might have had in store, and it was that.

Another fine PR job by TPTB.
Ah yes, the actual quote was "with a final shot that will have fandom buzzing from final fade to the opening shot of season five." I'm not really sure what the buzzing would be about, seeing as there's no way that Shep, Ronon, or Lorne are going to die in the building. Redshirts sure, but since when did fandom get all abuzz about redshirts? And there's no way that they're going to find Teyla dead, either. So yeah, overhyped.

Landers
March 8th, 2008, 06:30 AM
First notice, I shouldn't have watched this after an excellent Dr. Who episode (Blink)... that was a mistake.

TPTB of SGA should watch that episode to learn how you can make something so creepy with NO special effects.

I loved the Ronan and Todd part of Last Man. That was my favorite - two enemies dying together. And the General Lorne part was fantastic! If TPTB are still working on another SG1 spinoff, I nominate Lorne for a reg on that show!

Mostly I just "liked" this episode. Too much talky about nothing, and instead of the very poor CG1 building in the end, I would have preferred to see Shep come out of stasis and have a tricky time getting the gate going again - end the episode with him coming back to Atlantis all dirty and suffering dehydration. It would have been a better ending.

Woolsey and his uniform need to stay far, far away.

Still don't see why boring Keller is getting so many scenes. She has had more screen time this season then Teyla has had in four years. Tsk, tsk.

Pharaoh Atem
March 8th, 2008, 06:31 AM
I'm not completely sure, but that Queen didn't look like she was played by Andee Frizell.

Anyone got a name? For a second I kinda thought they put Keller in Wraith makeup.

it was her wraith voice so it might have been her

cabouse18
March 8th, 2008, 06:38 AM
I thought the ep was great!!

We got to see a lot of "what ifs" ya know what if Michael succeeded, what if Teyla didn't make it.....I thought it was great how they showed us how important one particular person and event is to the future and also what exactly is at stake for them to stop Michael and rescue Teyla.

Thank God it wasn't a series finale!! ;)

I think this ep was the ep where part of JM's poem about McKay comes to fruition "the death of a loved one, spurs McKay into action" IMO anyway. You could take this two ways: the death of Sheppard or the death of Keller is what convinces McKay that he needs to change the timeline and make things right.

Klenotka
March 8th, 2008, 06:43 AM
I think people are entitled to give their opinion of Rodney just like you continue to give your opinion of Teyla in every post you make. You seem to dish out enough criticizm of other characters especially Teyla but don't like to hear any on your favourite character. But in fact I havn't see anyone complain about Rodney's lack of sacrifice until you pointed it out.. and to me he probably sacrificed more than anyone else becasue he had to live through all their deaths.

I guess you are right. I spoke about fan reactions to Rodney generally, not just in this episode.
But I will stop writing about Teyla in every post. I know it might be offensive to the actress bc from most part, it´s not her fault how they write her.
But to write it the way I did, was very rude and harsh so I am sorry.;)

Heaven
March 8th, 2008, 06:46 AM
I find it pretty ridiculous that the wraith went down so easily.

a race like that should have found a way to survive

and certainly not fall by the hand of a rogue hybrid with a bunch of drones

and another thing
now we know that no matter what happens, the IOA is gonna screw Earth up
25 years into the future, Earth didn't seem like a nice place to live in
and the stargate program didn't change a thing for the average Earthling

Pegasus_SGA
March 8th, 2008, 06:53 AM
I find it pretty ridiculous that the wraith went down so easily.

a race like that should have found a way to survive

and certainly not fall by the hand of a rogue hybrid with a bunch of drones

and another thing
now we know that no matter what happens, the IOA is gonna screw Earth up
25 years into the future, Earth didn't seem like a nice place to live in
and the stargate program didn't change a thing for the average Earthling

I'm not quite sure what you mean that the Wraith went 'down' so easily, you mean when Sam crashed the Phoenix into them, or by some other means. We didn't actually see 'many' wraith in this ep, so to imply that they've been wiped out, I wouldn't say is accurate. We only saw a snippet of the wraith, mostly it involved Michael and his drones, joining in with his cause. I think that was the 'start' of things, we haven't seen the full effect, that probably comes in S5 possibly in Search and Rescue.

Remember we sawa brief snippet of how things were 25 years into the future, I don't remember Michael or anyone saying that the wraith had been wiped out? :S

I don't think it was made clear either was it why Earth wasn't doing too well, was it because of the Stargate, the Ori, the Wraith infiltrating Earth, too many resources being deployed elsewhere? I think maybe that's why i'm still struggling with this ep, i've too many unanswered questions.... I never really grew out of the 'why' phase as a child. :P

reddevil18
March 8th, 2008, 06:56 AM
25 years into the future, Earth didn't seem like a nice place to live in
and the stargate program didn't change a thing for the average EarthlingWhile I agree about the first part(I think the US is now a fascist regime), I don't know about the second one. Maybe that Minority Report type glove/screen was thanks to the Stargate programme. And, obviously, they found a way to stop hair loss. That's probably thanks to Hammond's continued support of the programme. And God knows what else! They may have even found oil on some other planets, so that gas is cheaper than water. And the water is more expensive than gold, because it's all polluted.

Briangate78
March 8th, 2008, 07:02 AM
This episode showed that Michael is no joke enemy and he means business. He truly has become one of the baddest enemies of SGA! Not only humans are being effected but Wraith also. The two that are not effected are becoming his hybrids.

I think Carson Beckett should be the one to end Michael's reign. He was the one who created him, because of his retro-virus.

Michael: You know what's ironic? I never asked for any of this.

Best Fraking line!

cabouse18
March 8th, 2008, 07:04 AM
I find it pretty ridiculous that the wraith went down so easily.

a race like that should have found a way to survive

and certainly not fall by the hand of a rogue hybrid with a bunch of drones

and another thing
now we know that no matter what happens, the IOA is gonna screw Earth up
25 years into the future, Earth didn't seem like a nice place to live in
and the stargate program didn't change a thing for the average Earthling

Just another reason why McKay found it soooo imperaitve to change the timeline....if all was well and good on Earth 25 yrs in the future then why the hell change things other than to bring your friends back? They had to make it look like things were bad EVERYWHERE not just in the Pegasus galaxy in order for things to seem more plausible.

Pegasus_SGA
March 8th, 2008, 07:13 AM
That would require emotions... TPTB don't do emotions well...they have no idea what to do with them... They're like Sheppard and emotions, BAD! Besides that would require them to use all of their cast, and they ran out of money cause they spilled it all on bad CG or overdone CG.

:lol: They can do emotions, but I think because this was a fast paced ep and they needed to fit a lot into it, there wasn't (for me anyway) that emotional connection. I cried like a baby last week, so I know emotions can be written well, it's just for me this time, not so much. I'm one of those that likes to see people's reactions to stressful situations and places that push them beyond their limits and just show their 'character' and how their presense effects and impacts on those around them. And for me I just didn't see that. We saw some of it in Shep, but it's one thing to hear about it and another to witness it. Rodney's feelings were slightly more evident, but it was Keller's death that finally spurned him into action? Yes, love is a powerful thing, but I don't know, I just don't see it. Growing friendship and love coming from friendship, possibly it just seemed rushed. I'm hoping to see more of the caring side and lots of love in Search and rescue and maybe some nice infirmary scenes. :P I just need to feel the loss I think, and I didn't with this. So many deaths, and it was I think too much in too short of time I think.

Yes, they were showing the impact with Ronon leaving after Shep and Teyla died and that was his catalyst, their deaths. But I guess I expected more on the motivation and feelings side. I need to feel the ep tugging at my heart strings. :lol: And I only got that a little bit. :(


This episode showed that Michael is no joke enemy and he means business. He truly has become one of the baddest enemies of SGA! Not only humans are being effected but Wraith also. The two that are not effected are becoming his hybrids.

I think Carson Beckett should be the one to end Michael's reign. He was the one who created him, because of his retro-virus.

Michael: You know what's ironic? I never asked for any of this.

Best Fraking line!

I think this ep was a good one for Michael and how much it's tipped him over the edge, the whole power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely. He plays Mr Nasty really well, and yeah I did love the beheading, because i'm sick and twisted, and it was a bit of a shock. But it showed that nothing and noone was going to stand in his way. So, let's hope we get more Michael in S5. :D

Egle01
March 8th, 2008, 07:23 AM
Interesting ep. Very dramatic. Very sad to see everyone die, Sam went as a hero, so did Ronon, but side by side with a Wraith. :eek: Was it just me, but I was LMAO seeing Woolsey in the uniform. :lol:
Cap:
http://img37.picoodle.com/img/img37/4/3/8/f_snapshot200m_e566a3e.png
Still LMAO. :D:D:D:D:D

cabouse18
March 8th, 2008, 07:26 AM
Interesting ep. Very dramatic. Very sad to see everyone die, Sam went as a hero, so did Ronon, but side by side with a Wraith. :eek: Was it just me, but I was LMAO seeing Woolsey in the uniform. :lol:
Cap:
http://img37.picoodle.com/img/img37/4/3/8/f_snapshot200m_e566a3e.png
Still LMAO. :D:D:D:D:D

Yeah he looked like a total dork!! :lol:

gkyun
March 8th, 2008, 07:28 AM
Hehe for some reason I was laughing so hard at the last scene when the building fell off and I went: "there goes the team!"

IMO when Sheppard went into the stasis pod they should've ended the ep right there. It would've made a more dramatic cliffhanger. But all in all it was a fantastic ep. Ronan went out in a bang, so did Sam. I was bugged by the Minority Report rip-off though, so "original" and just about the only bit we see of the kind of technological advances in the future.

Linzi
March 8th, 2008, 07:28 AM
Interesting ep. Very dramatic. Very sad to see everyone die, Sam went as a hero, so did Ronon, but side by side with a Wraith. :eek: Was it just me, but I was LMAO seeing Woolsey in the uniform. :lol:
Cap:
http://img37.picoodle.com/img/img37/4/3/8/f_snapshot200m_e566a3e.png
Still LMAO. :D:D:D:D:D

I have to confess that I too chuckled when seeing Woolsey in his uniform. Somehow it just doesn't look quite right! :lol:

s09119
March 8th, 2008, 07:31 AM
Yeah he looked like a total dork!! :lol:

I think that was done to make it shown how much Woolsey didn't belong with the Atlantis crew, that was just that different.

Falcon Horus
March 8th, 2008, 07:32 AM
...but I think because this was a fast paced ep and they needed to fit a lot into it...

Fast paced?!? :eek: Are you kidding me?

My cat was even more fast paced than this, and he was asleep. :S

Heaven
March 8th, 2008, 07:35 AM
While I agree about the first part(I think the US is now a fascist regime), I don't know about the second one. Maybe that Minority Report type glove/screen was thanks to the Stargate programme.

doubtful, they're concept technologies they're already working on in real world Earth, we don't need the stargate program to do it.


And, obviously, they found a way to stop hair loss. That's probably thanks to Hammond's continued support of the programme.

I imagine we might be able to do it in 25 years in the real world as well.


And God knows what else! They may have even found oil on some other planets, so that gas is cheaper than water. And the water is more expensive than gold, because it's all polluted.
hmm no, they didn't end up revealing the stargate program did they?
plus gas being cheaper than water sounds like a great boost for economic stability, oh and global warming too ;)

Just another reason why McKay found it soooo imperaitve to change the timeline....if all was well and good on Earth 25 yrs in the future then why the hell change things other than to bring your friends back? They had to make it look like things were bad EVERYWHERE not just in the Pegasus galaxy in order for things to seem more plausible.
but then he didn't really change much did he?
the IOA is still going to run Atlantis next year and probably stay in charge on Earth for years to come
I don't imagine 25 years from now that Earth will look any different
it seems our society is pretty much rotten to the core, and the stargate program isn't going to change that
makes the whole thing seem kind of meaningless

Heaven
March 8th, 2008, 07:43 AM
I'm not quite sure what you mean that the Wraith went 'down' so easily, you mean when Sam crashed the Phoenix into them, or by some other means. We didn't actually see 'many' wraith in this ep, so to imply that they've been wiped out, I wouldn't say is accurate. We only saw a snippet of the wraith, mostly it involved Michael and his drones, joining in with his cause. I think that was the 'start' of things, we haven't seen the full effect, that probably comes in S5 possibly in Search and Rescue.

no, I mean that a single person (Michael) was able to bring down a race like the Wraith with a bunch of hybrid drones and a drug, and all that in a single year
you're talking about a race who has bio engineered space ships and they can't find an antidote for a simple drug?

s09119
March 8th, 2008, 07:47 AM
no, I mean that a single person (Michael) was able to bring down a race like the Wraith with a bunch of hybrid drones and a drug, and all that in a single year
you're talking about a race who has bio engineered space ships and they can't find an antidote for a simple drug?

The Asgard also could not find a cure for a medical problem, remember.

And did they ever say it was a single year?

Vala_M
March 8th, 2008, 07:52 AM
Great show, it seems like just last week that we watched the 1st episode of season 4.

One thing from the show if Sheppard spent 5 to 8 hundred years in stasis, wouldn't he of aged a little. As I remember it doesn't stop the body from aging all together.

I thought about that, or maybe McKay was able to fix up the stasis to get past that issue or something. Anyway, I'm not the best math person but wouldn't 700 years in stasis equal 4.9 years of aging? The stasis pod ages a person at the rate of 70 years of biological age for 10000 years of actual time or 142 times less aging than normal. So that means that Sheppard would only have aged 4.9 years if I'm correct. Maybe that was his extra years being used from Todd giving him back his life and McKay's "He looks younger" comment so he would be OK.

Vala,

Heaven
March 8th, 2008, 08:02 AM
The Asgard also could not find a cure for a medical problem, remember.

that was genetic degeneration, that's quite different


And did they ever say it was a single year?
yes

Briangate78
March 8th, 2008, 08:03 AM
Fast paced?!? :eek: Are you kidding me?

My cat was even more fast paced than this, and he was asleep. :S

There is something called going too far with an opinion. Now if some characters were still alive and full-time in this episode I bet some people would turncoat in a heartbeat even if it was the same exact plot and story. I have learned a lot posting here. I just think people watch the show blinded because certain characters are no longer with the show. That is my opinion of course. But am I really that far off with this?

I wonder if there is an AU SGA airing with all the main characters still alive and full-time, and if those fans are singing a different tune. I'd pay money to see that.

Just to add, I know because I was like this for Season 9 of SG-1. Which I regret doing so.

Shan Bruce Lee
March 8th, 2008, 08:13 AM
There is something called going too far with an opinion. Now if some characters were still alive and full-time in this episode I bet some people would turncoat in a heartbeat even if it was the same exact plot and story. I have learned a lot posting here. I just think people watch the show blinded because certain characters are no longer with the show. That is my opinion of course. But am I really that far off with this?

I wonder if there is an AU SGA airing with all the main characters still alive and full-time, and if those fans are singing a different tune. I'd pay money to see that.

Just to add, I know because I was like this for Season 9 of SG-1. Which I regret doing so.

I don't know but I think I agree with you.

Demerzel
March 8th, 2008, 08:17 AM
Great episode.

I enjoyed it very much despite the plotholes found here and there.

A star undergoing a change to either red giant or supernova will take millions of years to do so as its a very long process. Had they arrived right before it happened, then okay. But there was still an atmosphere and such so there was no way only 500 years would mean it's over. The planet itself would have been almost destroyed long before the star is actually "dead". Best example I can give is the Eye of Jupiter episode in Battlestar Galactica. They arrived on Ageia -right- as the star was going supernova, but the planet was far enough to not be affected much until the star actually blows up and destroys the solar system.

As for the rest, it was a good episode. I looooved the last moments of Todd and Ronon and the expression on their faces. You could almost think they were a team. The Mckay scenes were good, I think it was some of his best acting so far.

Even knowing it wasn't going to remain that way, Sam's death got my eyes a bit wet. But there's something wrong with a lot of pilots in that show, they all want to ram other ships and sacrifice themselves!

General Lorne!! But man, 25 years to go from Major to Major General? Slow promotions, for sure. His futuristic uniform was bleh, I thought.

Keller and McKay. Ugh. UGH. That alone was reason enough to cancel the timeline. Too bad that whiny overrated brat didn't die for real.

And finally, Woolsey. If this is what we can expect from S5, then I'll just watch the storyline episodes in early S5 and then find another show to watch. It's going to be the last season I'm pretty sure and it's one of the worst character moves I've seen to put him in charge when he has zero credibility and can't seem to make good decisions, ever.

The end was predictable and didn't leave me on the edge of my seat. But overall it was a good season finale, just not as good as other shows who actually leave us on a cliffhanger that is part of the story and not another "Oh noes, everyone blew up! How will they survive?!". Battlestar Galactica anyone?

rovex
March 8th, 2008, 08:31 AM
Not bad at all. Best thing about timeline episodes is that they can do things that they could never do in the real story arc.
Im a 33 year old man and i almost cried when Sam heroically took out the wraith hives. Watching a character on TV for 11 years has an effect on you.

Pharaoh Atem
March 8th, 2008, 08:37 AM
i watched this ep and i never once thought about crying .....guess i was to into the ep :P....damn paul

francis
March 8th, 2008, 08:42 AM
just watched it finaly a good stargate time travel episode it didnt make me cry though. Its always fun to see what happens when the bad guy wins it ups the tension show how big the stakes are all in all a good episode

jelgate
March 8th, 2008, 08:57 AM
Peg and her novels

11 pages already? Wow you lot are a chatty bunch today. So this review might be a bit different to my normal reviews as i've just watched it.

So here goes, bear with me while I ramble (probably excessantly). :P
How is that different from your previous reviews.




While I loved certain elements in this ep, the banter between Shep and Rodney. Shep's expressions at finding out he was on his own and everyone else had died. Both boys (Joe and David) played those parts really well and were exceptionally believable in their portrayal. But did I feel the urgency and the direness of the situation? Was I on the edge of my screen squeeing with delight? To a degree, there were some great moments, but on balance, it just didn't 'do' it for me.

Your just mad that you didn't see the ultimate whump with Sheppard being dead


It was interested in seeing Ronon and Todd working together, and I got the impression that Ronon loved the fact that if he was going to die, he wasn't going alone and was more than happy to take the wraith with him! :DI agree with that statement. Ronon would be that if I am going die, I should take a bunch of people with me.


I loved Michael going all evil, and no mercy sort of killing! But again for me, it was proably too much of a leap from what we had seen in Kindred.
I'm sorry, I don't see it that way. The autrocities he committed in Kindred match to what he was doing The Last Man. He said he planned to wipe out the Wraith and that exactly what he did. I don't see how it was a big leap



As for Keller.... well surprisingly, I actully quite liked her in this! The smooching, hmmm, well still not convinced.
We will convince you yet:P


Hidden in spoilers to avoid controversy
Maybe I liked Keller in this timeline she died??!![SPOILERS]Bad Peggy!!!
*Breaks into Peg's house and steals her whip*

I actually liked the fact that she had the courage to stand up to Woolsey even if it was just a bit. It's a start, and allowed me to see a different side of her, but i'm surprised she quit to be honest.
If people were being killed left and right and you could do nothing about it, I know I wouldn't.


As for the ending.... hmmm not sure how to take it to be honest, they're all buried under rubble, hopefully hurt and injured especially sHEP, AS THAT WOULD REALLY MAKE ME SQUEE. aND YES i AM THAT SHALLOW. ;)

We know:P


I do like time travel and 'what if' stories, but I think more along the lines of 'It's a wonderful life' type of timeline as opposed to jumping from person to person, time frame to time frame.

Thats boring to me as you don't get see Sheppard's reaction. Don't tell me you didn't like seeing Sheppard walk through the sandstorm.

But great acting to Joe and David, I did love their banter, and 'snorted' in a very unladylike manner about the hair thing, and the superbowel etc. But not even one tear rolled down my cheek. There should have been hugs! Then i'd have been bawling like a baby and probably would have liked it more because it hit me on a more emotional level. Yes, I am that shallow. ;)

Do worry I didn't cry either, but then again it takes a lot for me to cry.

Okay, i'm done. :D Roll on season 5 :D
:indeed: I can''t wait so I can make fun and torture Peg.

Integrabyte
March 8th, 2008, 09:00 AM
Runs in ....shouts "Boooooo it sucked"....runs out :D

Cautious Explorer
March 8th, 2008, 09:01 AM
I had hopes that this epiosde could actually be interesting. It started out well, but then bogged down with Carter and Keller's portions. In the end, Sheppard didn't get to do much except listen to hologram Rodney recite his story.

It felt very detached to me. Teyla's dead and no one reacts --it's ancient history by now to hologram Rodney and we don't get to see anyone else's reaction. How did Atlantis react to Sheppard being lost in the future? We didn't get to see that. Was it a difficult decision for Ronon to leave Atlantis? We didn't get to see that either. It was basically a story told as: this happened, and then this happened, and then, and then, and then....

I prefer a story that revolves around the characters and how they react emotionally to events. There wasn't much here.

The entire focal point of this season-ender was Rodney McKay -- how his life changed, personally and professionally. Too much McKay for me.

I didn't care what happened to Carter or Keller. They're new to Atlantis. I'd rather see how the remaining members of the original expeditiion were affected. We get Carter and Rodney working on her ship with a whole second of Zelenka's hand. A lengthy look at Keller's failure to defeat the Hoffan disease and her resulting love affair and death. I just didn't care.

No explanation was given as to how Teyla's child provided the stepping stone for Michael's mutant army to conquer the Pegasus Galaxy. What happened to the child? Without feeding on life force, what makes the mutants more powerful than the Wraith?

It didn't hold my interest. Another badly written episode in a badly written season IMO.



There is something called going too far with an opinion. Now if some characters were still alive and full-time in this episode I bet some people would turncoat in a heartbeat even if it was the same exact plot and story. I have learned a lot posting here. I just think people watch the show blinded because certain characters are no longer with the show. That is my opinion of course. But am I really that far off with this?

I wonder if there is an AU SGA airing with all the main characters still alive and full-time, and if those fans are singing a different tune. I'd pay money to see that.

Just to add, I know because I was like this for Season 9 of SG-1. Which I regret doing so.

In my case Briangate, you're completely off base. All of my favorite characters are still there -- sort of. I should say, the characters and the actors who portray them are still part of the show. But I think they're written differently this season. The dialog is often stilted IMO. They seem to behave out of character and fluxuate from one week to the next. I'm finding the plots uncreative and unexciting.

It's not so much the lack of certain characters for me, as my frustration with the dull, shallow characters who replaced them. If Weir or Carson had been replaced with vibrant, exciting characters who interacted well with the existing Atlantis crew, then I would probably be enjoying season four as much as I enjoyed previous seasons.

toomanysides
March 8th, 2008, 09:08 AM
Holy crap. Okay if you take out the anti climatic ending, a few plot holes/eh stuff, it was a pretty good damn episode, but I'm biased.

I really wish Sam's demise was not AU. I really could accept such a end for her, it was fitting that she would go down with the ship. She went out fighting. I'm still feeling the impact.

Ronan/Todd end was equally as awesome. Going down together side by side for the same cause.

Plot for originality was eh, as with someone telling what happened but I forgive. For giving us two great ways to end such great characters.