Magical elements in Stargate

[xSFx]

I've just thought about it and there seem to be many magical elements in Stargate. I'm reffering to the straight out fantasy/magical elements, that don't qualify as "science fiction" (which can at least be explained by techno-babble).

Here:
- Magical box that tells people the truth (Ark)
- Magical fairy killer (Merlin's device)
- Everything related to ascension (especially the spiritual part)
- Communication stones (the Ancient comm devices).
- Astral travel (see: Daniel and Vala transported in the Ori galaxy).
- Psychic powers (mind reading, telekinesis, etc.)
- Magical evolution (like in the "Heroes" series; people still look the same but they have superpowers that defy the known laws of physics, without the need of any extra organ).
- Dualism (mind/body independence and the existence of "souls", as seen in all episodes where some kind of "consciousness switching" is envolved).
- Vitalism (the existence of a "life force", as seen in the Wraith feeding process. Rodney dismisses this in one episode, in one line, saying that it's not "life sucking" but rather a poorly misunderstood process that just looks like that)
- Genetic memory in the Goa'uld (this sounds a lot like "water memory" in homeopathy), seing as genomes aren't made to store neurological information, but rather work as a protein blueprint.
- The whole Merlin/Arthur/Morgan story and the different tests SG-1 had to pass through on their behalf. These guys no longer look like advanced aliens (like the Goa'uld and Asgard did).
- "subspace" / "hyperspace" - Magical space where the known rules of physics no longer apply.

I think having these made a nice addition to the plot, but it might have sounded even greater if they tried to explain them by using scientific jargon (and I mean realistic one, that science-aware folk can relate to). I personally loved Carter talking Quantum Physics (in a realistic manner, not the Deepak Chopra bull****) and Relativity.

[Raven6666]

Simple answer

Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.
Arthur C. Clarke

[umopapisdn]

Maybe they're just too advanced for us to understand so it seems like they're magic, though TPTB actually have some explanation they can pull out of the air whenever they want.

[xSFx]

Simple answer

Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.
Arthur C. Clarke

The main difference between Harry Potter and Stargate universe is that Stargate HAS to explain the fiction in terms of science.

[Raven6666]

Don't tell that to me, tell that to the originator of the quote.
People could write an essay on what you've listed, plus, if you knew the canon, about one third of the things you've listed were explained.

[xSFx]

The quote was not ment to be used in film review.

There's a reason why Fantasy (Harry Potter, LoTR, etc.) and SciFi (Stargate, Predator, Terminator, etc.) are different genres.

if you knew the canon, about one third of the things you've listed were explained.

I've watched all the series and consulted Wikipedia/Stargate-Wiki/GateWorld on the issues that interested me; what more can I know about the canon?

Perhaps I found the explanations unsatisfactory - most likely.

[umopapisdn]

Don't tell that to me, tell that to the originator of the quote.
People could write an essay on what you've listed, plus, if you knew the canon, about one third of the things you've listed were explained.

Actually you're right, also it is science FICTION, so TPTB can do whatever they like and call it too advanced for us to understand.

[Myles]

I've just thought about it and there seem to be many magical elements in Stargate. I'm reffering to the straight out fantasy/magical elements, that don't qualify as "science fiction" (which can at least be explained by techno-babble).

Here:
- Magical box that tells people the truth (Ark)
- Magical fairy killer (Merlin's device)
- Everything related to ascension (especially the spiritual part)
- Communication stones (the Ancient comm devices).
- Astral travel (see: Daniel and Vala transported in the Ori galaxy).
- Psychic powers (mind reading, telekinesis, etc.)
- Magical evolution (like in the "Heroes" series; people still look the same but they have superpowers that defy the known laws of physics, without the need of any extra organ).
- Dualism (mind/body independence and the existence of "souls", as seen in all episodes where some kind of "consciousness switching" is envolved).
- Vitalism (the existence of a "life force", as seen in the Wraith feeding process. Rodney dismisses this in one episode, in one line, saying that it's not "life sucking" but rather a poorly misunderstood process that just looks like that)
- Genetic memory in the Goa'uld (this sounds a lot like "water memory" in homeopathy), seing as genomes aren't made to store neurological information, but rather work as a protein blueprint.
- The whole Merlin/Arthur/Morgan story and the different tests SG-1 had to pass through on their behalf. These guys no longer look like advanced aliens (like the Goa'uld and Asgard did).
- "subspace" / "hyperspace" - Magical space where the known rules of physics no longer apply.

I think having these made a nice addition to the plot, but it might have sounded even greater if they tried to explain them by using scientific jargon (and I mean realistic one, that science-aware folk can relate to). I personally loved Carter talking Quantum Physics (in a realistic manner, not the Deepak Chopra bull****) and Relativity.

All of those things could be explained by technobable, but most of them weren't for the sake of the fans which generaly don't want to hear some made up BS on how every Ancient device worked, which seems to make up the majority of your 'magical' gizmos.

Almost everything made by the Ancients is way far ahead of us and saying it's magic is the same as what some medieval person would say if you shown them a piece of metal floating cause of a magnet. Lack of understanding doesn't make something magic.

'Magic powers' such as telekineses, ect, were explained as higher evolved brains. If you don't like that explaination, then I don't know what to say.

We have no idea how souls work and I'd say a good 2/3 of people believe we have one.

Vitalism ins't life force, like you said, so again, I don't see a problem. Unless it's also with the explanation.

You're right on the genetic memory. Although do we really have a good understanding of how we remember things in the first place?

The Ancient's looking like humans has been explained throughout the whole series, so once again there must be a problem with how it's explained. Also trials are always used in TV plots to make it dramatic in achieving something. I wouldn't expect SG-1 one to be different.

Also subspace/hyperspace might be hogwash, but every sci fci show needs some kind of detour around the light barrier.

[Garth Claw]

most of they have or can be easily explained,

Magical box that tells people the truth (Ark) - We have 'truth serums' now, it could just be an advanced form of this.

Magical fairy killer (Merlin's device) - Ascended beings exist in another plane of reality tied to ours space-time, the device cancelled there 'energy'.

Everything related to ascension (especially the spiritual part) - the spiritual part is only linked to an ascended being helping, ascension it self is learning to live as an energy state in a different plane.

Communication stones (the Ancient comm devices) - molecular circuitry anyone.

Psychic powers (mind reading, telekinesis, etc.)/Magical evolution (like in the "Heroes" series; people still look the same but they have superpowers that defy the known laws of physics, without the need of any extra organ). - People have been investigating the '6th sense' for generations who to say there isn't something to it. Changing reality by force of will.

Dualism (mind/body independence and the existence of "souls", as seen in all episodes where some kind of "consciousness switching" is envolved). - No really answer I'm not a neurologist.

Vitalism (the existence of a "life force", as seen in the Wraith feeding process. Rodney dismisses this in one episode, in one line, saying that it's not "life sucking" but rather a poorly misunderstood process that just looks like that) - Chemical energy on the atomic level being channelled, or an interaction with our naturally occurring EM field.

Genetic memory in the Goa'uld (this sounds a lot like "water memory" in homeopathy), seing as genomes aren't made to store neurological information, but rather work as a protein blueprint. - recent studies have shown that the germ line can be alter over several generations in response to environmental stress (food shortages, for example) may be this is a enhanced version.

"subspace" / "hyperspace" - Magical space where the known rules of physics no longer apply. - Quantum theory does seem to show that there are more dimensions then we know about, plus the so called 'missing energy' phoneme

[SoulReaver]

I've just thought about it and there seem to be many magical elements in Stargate. I'm reffering to the straight out fantasy/magical elements, that don't qualify as "science fiction" (which can at least be explained by techno-babble).

correction : (some of) it was never directly explained by techno-babble. does not imply anything of mystical substance though. now let's see :

tbh I can't comment on the Ark as I haven't seen the movie yet
however I'll bet it's just another (advanced) gadget
anyway :

- Magical fairy killer (Merlin's device)

yes a device, a piece of (ultra-highly-advanced) technology, assembled via technology etc.
Kvasir the asgard figured it out after looking at its schematics & described it as being "similar to a zpm"

- Everything related to ascension (especially the spiritual part)

this would've held true midway through SG1 (like season 5 esp. with that monk ascending) however subsequent seasons have pretty much retconned the mystical aspect of ascension & relegated it to the (very down-to-earth) scientific realm, basically technology suffices to ascend
furthermore ascended beings can be affected and (apparently) even killed by a neat little machine known as the St Graal, or Merlin's device
=> not magical
ascended beings are merely (ultra-)evolved life-forms, nothing more

- Communication stones (the Ancient comm devices).

- Astral travel (see: Daniel and Vala transported in the Ori galaxy).

(same thing)
yes the ancient communicator thing - a nifty little advanced piece of tech wasn't it ?
this to say, not magical

- Psychic powers (mind reading, telekinesis, etc.)

can be disabled by a mere terran device cf. the anti-prior device (amongst other things) => not magical
as you say below, it's evolution

- Magical evolution (like in the "Heroes" series; people still look the same but they have superpowers that defy the known laws of physics, without the need of any extra organ).

it's evolution all right, but it ain't magic to the goa'uld
cf. my above answer on the priors

- Vitalism (the existence of a "life force", as seen in the Wraith feeding process. Rodney dismisses this in one episode, in one line, saying that it's not "life sucking" but rather a poorly misunderstood process that just looks like that)

and like Rodney said, just another scientific phenomenon far beyond contemporary terran science

- Genetic memory in the Goa'uld (this sounds a lot like "water memory" in homeopathy), seing as genomes aren't made to store neurological information, but rather work as a protein blueprint.

judging by the slight difference in appearance between humans & goa'uld symbionts it's reasonable to assume that the two physiologies are somewhat different as well :|
besides, the scientific term ("genetic memory") leaves little room for a mystical aspect

- The whole Merlin/Arthur/Morgan story and the different tests SG-1 had to pass through on their behalf. These guys no longer look like advanced aliens (like the Goa'uld and Asgard did).

IMO you meant the holographic projections of those heroes, for that's just what they were : holograms

- "subspace" / "hyperspace" - Magical space where the known rules of physics no longer apply.

nope simply another "plane" with different rules of physics, like in Star trek & many other series, with it's own laws ie. own equations etc.

- Dualism (mind/body independence and the existence of "souls", as seen in all episodes where some kind of "consciousness switching" is envolved).

afaik the "soul" was only mentioned once, in SGA s4 (by weir, in Mortal coil), and leaving AOT aside (as I haven't watched it yet) this is the only moment in the entire SG1/SGA storyline where something of a mystical nature was evoked

other than that, SG has been pure sci-fi throughout, with just about zero "fantasy" content

[genius21]

who is to tell that all of it is possible or impossible hyperspace subspace is just a name writers made up doesn't mean it doesn't exists we currently have no understanding how i have never seen a wormhole writes made the name but since we are still stuck on this forsaken planet doesnt mean it does not exists.

writers need to show something give it a name without much scientific knowleadge but thanks to that people try to make it real they get motivation from watching a show where ships travel faster then light.

[umopapisdn]

who is to tell that all of it is possible or impossible hyperspace subspace is just a name writers made up doesn't mean it doesn't exists we currently have no understanding how i have never seen a wormhole writes made the name but since we are still stuck on this forsaken planet doesnt mean it does not exists.

writers need to show something give it a name without much scientific knowleadge but thanks to that people try to make it real they get motivation from watching a show where ships travel faster then light.

Look at the really old startrek communicators, somewhat like mobile phones aren't they

[TheAccended]

Look at the really old startrek communicators, somewhat like mobile phones aren't they

Don't forget Uhura's ear piece as well, looks a lot like a certain piece of Blue tooth tech. Given enough time science fiction becomes science fact, or you could think of it this way that given enough time real life will emulate science fiction.

[Raven6666]

Extended version of reasoning

- Magical box that tells people the truth (Ark)

We know the Human Brain has electric currents, perhaps the Ark changes some of these currents to alter someone's perception/memory

- Everything related to ascension (especially the spiritual part)

Ascension is basically TPTB's version of true enlightenment or going to heaven or even an afterlife. Those are definitely spiritual, true enlightenment with the Budhist views, going to Heaven in Christian views and the Afterlife is sometimes considered Budhist, or paganistic(if you want to consider the Egyptians that.)

- Magical fairy killer (Merlin's device)

It was described to change/move energy in or out of the Ascended planes, technology with no real handbook/manual, however we got some explanations.

- Communication stones (the Ancient comm devices).

- Astral travel (see: Daniel and Vala transported in the Ori galaxy).

Long range radio basically, connected with the two people who insert the stones, and 2 people based in whatever other galaxy to do with it.
If you mean the Citizen Joe ones, same thing without machine, just short range.

- Psychic powers (mind reading, telekinesis, etc.)

Well average humans only use what, 5 to 10% or so of their total brain function, some people might not exactly be psychic. Science still doesn't know what happens if you have, let's say 38% brain function, I don't think there are any science journals that explain exactly what happens.
Mind reading isn't supernatural, people reading(the skill of reading body language and stuff like that) would be a better way to describe that.

- Magical evolution (like in the "Heroes" series; people still look the same but they have superpowers that defy the known laws of physics, without the need of any extra organ).

Explained above.

- Dualism (mind/body independence and the existence of "souls", as seen in all episodes where some kind of "consciousness switching" is envolved).

Holiday wasn't technically switching of mind/body, just the neural pathways, was explained in episode.
Asgard are highly advanced, so they can record minds with their tech. This makes cloning easier if they can program the brain to download the memories

- Vitalism (the existence of a "life force", as seen in the Wraith feeding process. Rodney dismisses this in one episode, in one line, saying that it's not "life sucking" but rather a poorly misunderstood process that just looks like that)

Atlantis is just getting older, we still don't have a proper explanation for this.

- Genetic memory in the Goa'uld (this sounds a lot like "water memory" in homeopathy), seing as genomes aren't made to store neurological information, but rather work as a protein blueprint.

I thought the spawn from a Queen were basically like a clone, if not then they'd be a Clean Slate(like the asgard mentioned above), then the Queen might copy the electrical whatnots in her brain to the spawn, and this is also optional.

- The whole Merlin/Arthur/Morgan story and the different tests SG-1 had to pass through on their behalf. These guys no longer look like advanced aliens (like the Goa'uld and Asgard did).

Logic doesn't necessarily have to change. It was basically questions having to be answered. The rocks in the wall might've had like a device/sensor which recognises voices (another reason why most of them shouted.) Highly advanced sensors can semi-explain this.

- "subspace" / "hyperspace" - Magical space where the known rules of physics no longer apply.

Ask physics and maths majors or those University professors about this.


Next time, you could try think of some of the possibilities?
BTW, you mention all these, but you forget the actual way a lot of the technology is done? Crystals seem almost whacked to be able to store some type of info, but in Stargate they still do. Even though they are the basis for a lot of the alien tech, what makes them seem non-magical?

[Mefusta]

Well average humans only use what, 5 to 10% or so of their total brain function, some people might not exactly be psychic. Science still doesn't know what happens if you have, let's say 38% brain function, I don't think there are any science journals that explain exactly what happens.
Mind reading isn't supernatural, people reading(the skill of reading body language and stuff like that) would be a better way to describe that.

There aren't any 'science journals' that explain exactly what happens when we use 38% of our brain function for the simple reason that the notion of us only using 5-10% of our brains is utter tosh!! It's a blatant lie trotted out by psychics to try and give a scientific basis to their con-artistry. For the sake of simplicity, here's the article on Snopes on the subject, although the idea doesn't even hold up to the simplest of logical reasoning.

Myths of natural psychic phenomena are perpetuated by the simple-minded and the charlatans that prey on them, but there can be no doubt that a technologically-based development in the future could mimic these effects in a very real manner. Stargate has never really prided itself on hard science fiction, especially in this area, but at the very least they know how to spin a good yarn