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Redwyrm
January 11th, 2008, 09:14 AM
Hi, there. New. Down to questions. :)

In my opinion the Wraith have never really solidified as the the major threat that Atlantis (the show) needs. They had some interesting abilities and a different look, but they aren't that scary. The team has almost never had a problem dealing with them (see Ori as a good example of a "threat").

When Atlantis brought in the Replicators, things picked up. But then Season 4 started and the two major threats to Atlantis were fighting each other and not really a factor. This is one of the reasons why I felt that the beginning episodes of Season 4, aside from the season openers, seemed hollow and unfocused.

Now that the Replicators have been taken care of (ignoring :weir: for the moment), we have the Wraith as the main antagonist again. Snooze. So, my question is. How many seasons do you think the writers will continue to use the Wraith before they bring in a more powerful (and hopefully interesting) baddie?

metabog
January 11th, 2008, 09:20 AM
The wraith used to be freaking scary and powerful, before their ships shrunk to Daedalus-size, before they stopped quickly regenerating when shot, when we learned to turn them into humans and back (that was the cheesiest thing ever, IMO, and it was never continued).

Now our asgard beam weapons could probably destroy their hive ships in one blow.

But what enemy could possibly stand in the way of the Tau'ri now... seriously, we can destroy ancient ships... and:

We defeat an entire race of ascended beings in The Ark of Truth.

It seems the humans have become the gods in the end. We could probably rule the galaxy. And on top of that, we have only one planet, and it's people don't even know about this (in fact, they are still wiping out their planet's habitabilty with polluting fuels, when they could be flying naquadah powered ships).

talyn2k1
January 11th, 2008, 09:22 AM
I think the Wraith have the potential to be the big bad we have always wanted them to be.
The problem in early seasons is that they were too 2-dimensional and we knew absolutely nothing about them. They ate people because they needed to and just happened to be amazingly evil so they were just the same as a number of other bigbads in many scifi shows in the past.
With the introduction of Todd, the revelation that Queens are in short supply, and the information about the Wraith that is apparently forthcoming in 'Spoils Of War', I think the writers have handed themselves a golden opportunity to make them as big, bad, and 3-dimensional as they should have been from day one.


But it looks like there will be a new enemy in S5. Lets just hope they don't forget about the Wraith just as they are starting to get interesting.

metabog
January 11th, 2008, 09:28 AM
I liked how the replicators had become basically unstoppable, just wiping out entire planets without anything standing in their way. That was just awesome and it actually seemed menacing. The way we blew them up was pretty fitting, IMO. But it just seems unlikely they would have just one planet. If they were replicators, why didn't they replicate their way onto more and more planets like an unstoppable force?

I would like to see something really huge and unstoppable, like a juggernaut. Like the Borg, they should stop at nothing.

Redwyrm
January 11th, 2008, 09:32 AM
I will agree with that Talyn. The problem the Wraith had at the very beginning (at still do to a certain extent) is that they didn't have a "Named" leader. It was like a race of red-shirts. And how memorable are red-shirts?

Michael will hopefully correct this.

rarocks24
January 11th, 2008, 09:33 AM
I liked how the replicators had become basically unstoppable, just wiping out entire planets without anything standing in their way. That was just awesome and it actually seemed menacing. The way we blew them up was pretty fitting, IMO. But it just seems unlikely they would have just one planet. If they were replicators, why didn't they replicate their way onto more and more planets like an unstoppable force?

I would like to see something really huge and unstoppable, like a juggernaut. Like the Borg, they should stop at nothing.

We already know the Replicators survived. It's a moot point. The Asurans are in the rebound. All BAMSR was was a power play between Oberoth and Weir. Weir won.

Winter
January 11th, 2008, 09:38 AM
I am wondering when the Hives became Daedalus size? It was always quite clear to me that a ship like the Daedalus could fit easily between the two main parts of the Hive ships as in Allies. In comparison the Daedalus is quite small.

I agree that the Wraith seemed much more powerful in the early seasons and now don't seem like much of a threat. These people are predators - if a predator is not stronger and more intelligent than their prey, they will not survive.

The Wraith evolved from Ancient humans and the iratus. . .what we know about these two is that the Ancients were intelligent beyond our capacity of understanding as their brains were much more evolved than ours. The Iratus is an incredibly invulnerable creature. It was hard as hell to kill it and damn scary.

Knowing this, it is quite stupid to me that the Wraith now seem so weak and easy to destroy. This enemy should be scary as hell for us. What happened? As a combination of these two beings there should be no reason for them to not come back and kick some major butt.

Finally, I have to say - that Asgard weapon is WAY too powerful! I wonder if they will take the weapon away from us since the threat of the replicators is gone. At one point they would not give us any weapons and were pissed off that we used their beaming technology as a weapon.

rarocks24
January 11th, 2008, 09:45 AM
I am wondering when the Hives became Daedalus size? It was always quite clear to me that a ship like the Daedalus could fit easily between the two main parts of the Hive ships as in Allies. In comparison the Daedalus is quite small.

When did they appear Daedalus sized? Different reasons could account for differing views. Perspective, scaling, etc.


I agree that the Wraith seemed much more powerful in the early seasons and now don't seem like much of a threat. These people are predators - if a predator is not stronger and more intelligent than their prey, they will not survive.

They managed to snag a ZPM during the battle without us knowing about it.


The Wraith evolved from Ancient humans and the iratus. . .what we know about these two is that the Ancients were intelligent beyond our capacity of understanding as their brains were much more evolved than ours. The Iratus is an incredibly invulnerable creature. It was hard as hell to kill it and damn scary.

Actually, they didn't evolve from Ancients. They evolved from normal humans that were seeded/planted on Iratus insect worlds.


Knowing this, it is quite stupid to me that the Wraith now seem so weak and easy to destroy. This enemy should be scary as hell for us. What happened? As a combination of these two beings there should be no reason for them to not come back and kick some major butt.

Intelligence has nothing to do with it. They are low on food and territorial. Bees kill bees from other hives. The Wraith have nowhere near the number they once had. The Wraith are like the Goa'uld of S.6-7, weak, but still a threat.


Finally, I have to say - that Asgard weapon is WAY too powerful! I wonder if they will take the weapon away from us since the threat of the replicators is gone. At one point they would not give us any weapons and were pissed off that we used their beaming technology as a weapon.

Huh, who's going to take away the weapons? I take it you haven't seen or heard of SG1 episode Unending? ;)

Winter
January 11th, 2008, 09:51 AM
When did they appear Daedalus sized? Different reasons could account for differing views. Perspective, scaling, etc.



They managed to snag a ZPM during the battle without us knowing about it.



Actually, they didn't evolve from Ancients. They evolved from normal humans that were seeded/planted on Iratus insect worlds.



Intelligence has nothing to do with it. They are low on food and territorial. Bees kill bees from other hives. The Wraith have nowhere near the number they once had. The Wraith are like the Goa'uld of S.6-7, weak, but still a threat.



Huh, who's going to take away the weapons? I take it you haven't seen or heard of SG1 episode Unending? ;)

I was thinking maybe the Asgard would take the weapon back. What season was Unending from? I've seen them all - its a lot to remember though.

SGFerrit
January 11th, 2008, 10:03 AM
I am wondering when the Hives became Daedalus size? It was always quite clear to me that a ship like the Daedalus could fit easily between the two main parts of the Hive ships as in Allies. In comparison the Daedalus is quite small.

They didn't get Daedalus sized! Watch BAMSR again, 32m 40 seconds in. They appear smaller, sure. But hardly Daedalus sized. And as has been said before, they aren't too big on size continuity, they just want the battles to look as good as they can possibly make them. Considerig the VFX team slaved for months on these shots, I'd say they did a good job.

SGFerrit
January 11th, 2008, 10:05 AM
I was thinking maybe the Asgard would take the weapon back. What season was Unending from? I've seen them all - its a lot to remember though.

Unending was the last ever episode. Go watch it again, and you will see why the Asgard will never take the weapons back off us.

Winter
January 11th, 2008, 10:13 AM
Unending was the last ever episode. Go watch it again, and you will see why the Asgard will never take the weapons back off us.

I never watched the entire series until after the series finale so I have a lot in my head right now! LOL I will watch it again. That was a good ep.

GoSpikey
January 11th, 2008, 10:30 AM
I never watched the entire series until after the series finale so I have a lot in my head right now! LOL I will watch it again. That was a good ep.

I'll say it in tags:

The Asgard self-destruced. It was such a sad ep!

dasNdanger
January 11th, 2008, 10:43 AM
Knowing this, it is quite stupid to me that the Wraith now seem so weak and easy to destroy. This enemy should be scary as hell for us. What happened? As a combination of these two beings there should be no reason for them to not come back and kick some major butt.



What usually happens is that writers make the bad guys TOO vulnerable because we (the fans) want the good guys to win in the end. We like to see 'our' guys kick the bad guys' butts. However, by doing so, they weaken the impact the villain has. It SHOULD be that - when the Wraith shows up - 'all bets are off'. But lately it's a given that the humans will win.

This can still be done. First, we have seen the 'human' side of the Wraith through Todd. THAT is enough. I love the character, want to see the character in more episodes, but I do NOT want to see the Wraith become LIKE this character (case in point: All Klingons became Worf, instead of Worf standing in sharp contrast to his more animalistic and violent brethern).

So...we have Todd as our Wraith moral compass. We KNOW what they are capable of in a good way...NOW - push the envelope and REALLY show us what they are capable of in a BAD way. At the same time, those of us who are fans of the Wraith can be treated to those moments when the Wraith just drop out of the sky and save the SGA team from certain death at the hands of a common foe. Why save the team? Because, you NEVER know when the Wraith are gonna want a snack...

Keep the threat REAL, and don't water them down as a race like the Klingons eventually were in ST.

das

martoufman
January 11th, 2008, 11:09 AM
A lot of you keep refering to the Wraithe as being evil when in fact they are not. McKay even points this out in an earlier episode. The Wraithe feed on humans because that is thier food source. If they didnt need humans for food then they would most likely leave us alone.

dasNdanger
January 11th, 2008, 11:25 AM
A lot of you keep refering to the Wraithe as being evil when in fact they are not. McKay even points this out in an earlier episode. The Wraithe feed on humans because that is thier food source. If they didnt need humans for food then they would most likely leave us alone.

True - but from a human standpoint, they do seem 'evil', just like we think of mosquitos and fleas and ticks as evil little blood-sucking buggers. :D But yes - they are not 'evil', per se. They are 'bad', in that they will play with their food before they feed in some cases. That, of course, could be seen as bad on an individual level, however. They are 'bad' in that they are a threat to humans. But evil - no - their nature is not evil, like a demon, or something. They are just doing what is necessary for their survival...they are feeding on the only food source that nourishes them.

das

Winter
January 11th, 2008, 11:26 AM
A lot of you keep refering to the Wraithe as being evil when in fact they are not. McKay even points this out in an earlier episode. The Wraithe feed on humans because that is thier food source. If they didnt need humans for food then they would most likely leave us alone.

You're right. They're not evil anymore than we are. I believe it is only the potential for evil we are talking about - its what I am talking about anyway. We humans have the potential to be quite evil - as do the Wraith.

talyn2k1
January 11th, 2008, 12:11 PM
I liked how the replicators had become basically unstoppable, just wiping out entire planets without anything standing in their way. That was just awesome and it actually seemed menacing. The way we blew them up was pretty fitting, IMO. But it just seems unlikely they would have just one planet. If they were replicators, why didn't they replicate their way onto more and more planets like an unstoppable force?

I would like to see something really huge and unstoppable, like a juggernaut. Like the Borg, they should stop at nothing.

The Asurans aren't like the MW Replicators.

The main directive of the MW Reps was to 'multiply and go forth'. This was their main goal along with absorbing advanced technology (which I think was just a means to the end of muliplying more efficiently).
The Asurans were more interested in emulating the Ancients, destroying Atlantis, killing all Wraith and in the process killing all humans too.
While they are technically Replicators, their modus operandi is completely different to that of the MW Reps.

The Replicators could've become that, but PTB chose a different path for them. I think it would've gotten old if they had gone that way so I'm glad the Asurans are gone but I, like you, hope for a juggernaut adversary in the future. Just as long as they don't dumb them down in the same way Voyager did the Borg.

Jumper_One
January 11th, 2008, 12:26 PM
Hi, there. New. Down to questions. :)

In my opinion the Wraith have never really solidified as the the major threat that Atlantis (the show) needs. They had some interesting abilities and a different look, but they aren't that scary. The team has almost never had a problem dealing with them (see Ori as a good example of a "threat").

don't forget the Goa'uld ;)


When Atlantis brought in the Replicators, things picked up. But then Season 4 started and the two major threats to Atlantis were fighting each other and not really a factor.

true however this never bothered because instead those eps could focus on Atlantis, new characters etc (ie Reunion, DG, Missing)


This is one of the reasons why I felt that the beginning episodes of Season 4, aside from the season openers, seemed hollow and unfocused.

are you kidding? Lifeline was a very cool ep imo, as were Reunion and DG


Now that the Replicators have been taken care of (ignoring :weir: for the moment), we have the Wraith as the main antagonist again. Snooze. So, my question is. How many seasons do you think the writers will continue to use the Wraith before they bring in a more powerful (and hopefully interesting) baddie?

I think TBTB will get rid of the Wraith in s7 or 8 ;) seriously though the Goa'uld lasted 8 seasons (not to mention Baal in s9 and 10) and they were the original enemy in SG-1, same as the Wraith are for Atlantis. sure the replicators became more important in recent eps but I think we'll get a lot more decent Wraith eps in the future

Detox
January 11th, 2008, 01:18 PM
I was thinking maybe the Asgard would take the weapon back. What season was Unending from? I've seen them all - its a lot to remember though.

If you have to ask that... no... you HAVEN'T seen it all.

Mitchell82
January 11th, 2008, 01:30 PM
Hi, there. New. Down to questions. :)

In my opinion the Wraith have never really solidified as the the major threat that Atlantis (the show) needs. They had some interesting abilities and a different look, but they aren't that scary. The team has almost never had a problem dealing with them (see Ori as a good example of a "threat").
Hmm they are still scary but not as much as muh as they once were. We have had problem s with them though and still will untill our numbers match theirs. The ORI are great examples but the Wraith will always be a threat untill we can thin their numbers.


When Atlantis brought in the Replicators, things picked up. But then Season 4 started and the two major threats to Atlantis were fighting each other and not really a factor. This is one of the reasons why I felt that the beginning episodes of Season 4, aside from the season openers, seemed hollow and unfocused.
Well things were never really dull though as much as I loved season 2 it was the weakest season. As to the last part I disagree, Adrift and Lifeline were definatly great episodes IMO.


Now that the Replicators have been taken care of (ignoring :weir: for the moment), we have the Wraith as the main antagonist again. Snooze. So, my question is. How many seasons do you think the writers will continue to use the Wraith before they bring in a more powerful (and hopefully interesting) baddie?
Well the Wraith arent that boring to me at all and I doubt all the reps are gone.

Winter
January 11th, 2008, 01:30 PM
If you have to ask that... no... you HAVEN'T seen it all.

I haven't, huh? LMAO I just love it when people tell me what I've done, seen or said. .

ColCaldwell
January 11th, 2008, 01:40 PM
I enjoy how Earth has advanced the technology, since that mission was the standing orders of the SGC. But I think we have become too powerful in the wrong way. All the technology we have procured is from the Asgard (all the tech on Daedalus class ships). It would be nice to see them incorporate technology gained from the ancients once in a while. I find it laughable that we were able to reproduce the Asgard plasma weapon as fast as we did and the same power. The ones on the Apollo and Daedalus should be a LOT weaker in comparision to the Oddyssey. Oh well, hopefully all the tech doesn't make us the uber power in the Pegasus galaxy.

PG15
January 11th, 2008, 02:05 PM
The Oddy also had a ZPM in Unending, remember? That's probably why its weapons were stronger.

KiLL3r
January 11th, 2008, 02:22 PM
I'll say it in tags:

The Asgard self-destruced. It was such a sad ep!

i never understood that ending.

there was no "good bye cruel world" sort of moment, just hey the ori are here.. BOOOOOM.. and that was it :(

ColCaldwell
January 11th, 2008, 02:28 PM
The Oddy also had a ZPM in Unending, remember? That's probably why its weapons were stronger.

I said the weapons NEED to be a lot weaker than they are. Right now, they have the same strength as the Oddyssey.

Winter
January 11th, 2008, 02:33 PM
I'll say it in tags:

The Asgard self-destruced. It was such a sad ep!

Missed this post. I can't believe I didn't remember something so huge - so sad! :S LMAO I have a mind like an elephant, I never forget anything but I do have a problem with random recall!

YIKES!

Arica12
January 11th, 2008, 02:48 PM
I would love to see a new original enemy.

In many ways I think that that has been Atlantis biggest problem, they don't have a defining enemy. If you look at all the comparable Sci-fi shows you notice that the ones which stand out are the ones where there was a strong, constant and defining villain. Take Star Trek TNG and DS9. Both shows struggled with quality for quite a while, until their Major villains arrived and gave the series focus. Now they were not the focus of every episode, but they were always there, at the back of everything was the threat and the certainty that it was going to return even worse that before. Now look at the two Star Trek shows which most agree didn't work. Defining villains? Not really (Voyager ended up borrowing the Borg)

Now take SG-1, I didn't watch it and have only seen a couple of epsiodes from the first 8 seasons but I would say that SG1 followed the TNG and DS9 pattern, a strong, genuinely frightening villain (aliens boring into the brain and controlling you for thousands of years, that does make me shudder). I also think it explains why the Ori didn't work. The villain wasn't different enough to introduce anything new for long time viewers.

So how do I think that relates to Atlantis? Well the Wraith personally remind me way too much of the Lizards from V, and secondly the lack of a defined nemesis for the Atlantis crew is a problem. In a inverted way I think you have to 'care' about a villain character in order to keep finding the villains exciting. Michael was a possibility, but he shows up so irregulalrly that you struggle to remember hald the things that went on the last time he dropped by

So I would love to see a new villain. One that perhaps wants something completely different from anything we've seen before and one that isn't so easy for the Atlantis crew to define and handle.

Mitchell82
January 11th, 2008, 04:58 PM
I would love to see a new original enemy.

In many ways I think that that has been Atlantis biggest problem, they don't have a defining enemy. If you look at all the comparable Sci-fi shows you notice that the ones which stand out are the ones where there was a strong, constant and defining villain. Take Star Trek TNG and DS9. Both shows struggled with quality for quite a while, until their Major villains arrived and gave the series focus. Now they were not the focus of every episode, but they were always there, at the back of everything was the threat and the certainty that it was going to return even worse that before. Now look at the two Star Trek shows which most agree didn't work. Defining villains? Not really (Voyager ended up borrowing the Borg)

Now take SG-1, I didn't watch it and have only seen a couple of epsiodes from the first 8 seasons but I would say that SG1 followed the TNG and DS9 pattern, a strong, genuinely frightening villain (aliens boring into the brain and controlling you for thousands of years, that does make me shudder). I also think it explains why the Ori didn't work. The villain wasn't different enough to introduce anything new for long time viewers.

So how do I think that relates to Atlantis? Well the Wraith personally remind me way too much of the Lizards from V, and secondly the lack of a defined nemesis for the Atlantis crew is a problem. In a inverted way I think you have to 'care' about a villain character in order to keep finding the villains exciting. Michael was a possibility, but he shows up so irregulalrly that you struggle to remember hald the things that went on the last time he dropped by

So I would love to see a new villain. One that perhaps wants something completely different from anything we've seen before and one that isn't so easy for the Atlantis crew to define and handle.
I disagree. I don't see that comparison at all. FOr me the Wraith are an orrginal enemy. But I wouldn't mind a new one.

Lord batchi ball
February 1st, 2008, 02:47 PM
I did'nt want to start a new thread so I found one that could fit.

Now what do you guys think of Ford becoming a Wraith. I know its been done to death but still. He's already hooked on the drug so maybe thet capture him and turn him into a Wraith, creepy experiment:eek:.

MartianManhunter
February 1st, 2008, 06:05 PM
I did'nt want to start a new thread so I found one that could fit.

Now what do you guys think of Ford becoming a Wraith. I know its been done to death but still. He's already hooked on the drug so maybe thet capture him and turn him into a Wraith, creepy experiment:eek:.

No, it just wouldnt feel right.

Heaven
February 1st, 2008, 08:05 PM
I'm going to put my rant in spoiler tags on this one :o

rant:

The problem with stargate is that it's gone too long without consequences.
you can't keep telling a story without evolving it.
doesn't matter how many times they shuffle enemies and actors, they all play the same familiar role replacing their predecessors. this show is dying out.

back in season 1 of Atlantis, I actually cared for the expedition, they didn't have a net. when the Genii invaded, when food supplies were running out, when the Wraith laid siege, there was real risk and thrill.

but now, does anyone really believe the Wraith will ever destroy Earth or even hurt it enough to affect the public?
did anyone really believe the replicators would make it to Earth in First Strike ?
and if Atlantis was destroyed tomorrow, would it really matter?
it's not like the ancients wanted us there.
it's not like it makes any difference for us since we get all our technology from the Asgard anyway.
it's not like it holds the key to defeating the Wraith anymore like we thought it might in season 1.
it's not the place of ultimate power like it was depicted in SG1.

so what's the purpose of it all? why do we even go offworld anymore?
we already have practically all the power and knowledge in the universe at reach, do we really expect to find something better out there?

now suppose they bring a new enemy, can they really offer anything other than filling the shoes of their predecessors?
does anyone really think an enemy more powerful than replicators with ancients knowledge could make any more difference out there?

/rant

The way I see it, future seasons will either evolve the show in unexpected way,
or only introduce a new enemy and that will be the last we hear of Stargate Atlantis.

Atlantis1
February 2nd, 2008, 11:52 AM
I still believe there is more we need to learn about the wraith. I don't see why the enemy needs to be scary. They are threatening and the fact humans are their food sort an enemy I find interesting. Most of the stargate enemies killed others. The wraith just stun people for a food sort. If a person puts themselves in the shoes of the characters that can be very unnerving.

I'm hoping we will get to see what it was the Aurora found out about their weakness.

JSPuddlejumper
February 2nd, 2008, 12:51 PM
The Wraith are toddlers.

The G'ould were far more scary. Annubis and Apohosis ruled.

The MW Replicator's were great, now if only they made more scary looking bugs...T-1000's get lame after a while.

Insectoid replicators, Hive mentality (Borg like). Cool to have.

2ndgenerationalteran
February 3rd, 2008, 02:24 AM
I seriously think they should deal with extra-dimensional aliens for this new seasons either traveling to their extra-dimensional world and fighting them having to learn the new physics (which the writters can have a field day with and use it as explanations for any plot hole) or finding a way to drag them to ours.

The Wraith are done, and Spoils of War pretty much solidified that. Fighting individual wraith "war lords" like michael would spoil the show.

jdbond
February 3rd, 2008, 02:54 AM
Weird thread!People are calling wraiths evil and what not. Seriously, stop talking nonsense. There is nothing bad or evil about Wraiths. Next time when you are eating your steak, think.

jdbond
February 3rd, 2008, 02:59 AM
I'm going to put my rant in spoiler tags on this one :o

rant:

The problem with stargate is that it's gone too long without consequences.
you can't keep telling a story without evolving it.
doesn't matter how many times they shuffle enemies and actors, they all play the same familiar role replacing their predecessors. this show is dying out.

back in season 1 of Atlantis, I actually cared for the expedition, they didn't have a net. when the Genii invaded, when food supplies were running out, when the Wraith laid siege, there was real risk and thrill.

but now, does anyone really believe the Wraith will ever destroy Earth or even hurt it enough to affect the public?
did anyone really believe the replicators would make it to Earth in First Strike ?
and if Atlantis was destroyed tomorrow, would it really matter?
it's not like the ancients wanted us there.
it's not like it makes any difference for us since we get all our technology from the Asgard anyway.
it's not like it holds the key to defeating the Wraith anymore like we thought it might in season 1.
it's not the place of ultimate power like it was depicted in SG1.

so what's the purpose of it all? why do we even go offworld anymore?
we already have practically all the power and knowledge in the universe at reach, do we really expect to find something better out there?

now suppose they bring a new enemy, can they really offer anything other than filling the shoes of their predecessors?
does anyone really think an enemy more powerful than replicators with ancients knowledge could make any more difference out there?

/rant

The way I see it, future seasons will either evolve the show in unexpected way,
or only introduce a new enemy and that will be the last we hear of Stargate Atlantis.

I never "really" believed that any enemy of Humans will ever destroy Earth. You know what, it's a freaking TV program. In TV program, earth is going to survive if the program wants to survive. So you "really" thought that wraith could have destroyed Atlantis in "The Siege"?

Heaven
February 3rd, 2008, 04:22 AM
I never "really" believed that any enemy of Humans will ever destroy Earth. You know what, it's a freaking TV program. In TV program, earth is going to survive if the program wants to survive. So you "really" thought that wraith could have destroyed Atlantis in "The Siege"?
yes. when they were about to evacuate the city, I thought they were gonna spend the next season surviving in the Pegasus galaxy.

what's the point of having an enemy whose purpose is to attack Earth, if you know in advance they're not even gonna matter enough to note it in the papers.
the Ori trolled our galaxy unstoppable for two years, and never even touched Earth, it was ridiculous.

Bytor
February 3rd, 2008, 04:43 AM
The Wraith are toddlers.

The G'ould were far more scary. Annubis and Apohosis ruled.

The MW Replicator's were great, now if only they made more scary looking bugs...T-1000's get lame after a while.

Insectoid replicators, Hive mentality (Borg like). Cool to have.

G'ould were scary?
G'ould were scary???
G'Ould were scary?????

They were laughable and corny, to the point of being mocked by the humans.
I dont know about you. But a huge ugly wraith about to suck the life from me is FAR more scary than Apophis LOL.... Apophis looked like a fashion designer. Now im not saying the G'hould weren't fun enemies for SG1,, but SCARY? c'mon get real

Bytor
February 3rd, 2008, 04:45 AM
yes. when they were about to evacuate the city, I thought they were gonna spend the next season surviving in the Pegasus galaxy.

what's the point of having an enemy whose purpose is to attack Earth, if you know in advance they're not even gonna matter enough to note it in the papers.
the Ori trolled our galaxy unstoppable for two years, and never even touched Earth, it was ridiculous.

I think its very possible were they can do a show in a later seaon where the wratih ships make it to earth.. Just like the Ghould did... but would you be offended that u know the Wraith wont win?... I mean.. did you really think the Ghould were gonna destroy all humanity?

Jeff O'Connor
February 3rd, 2008, 06:08 AM
You know, I never got around to mentioning it before, but when I first read the title of this thread, my tired eyes perceived it as 'Future Seasons = Emmy?'

I remember thinking to myself, 'wow, let's not jump the gun...' And then I laughed in rereading.

g.o.d
February 3rd, 2008, 06:13 AM
what's the point of bringing another powerful eneny into SG? In the end, they all suffer the same fate. Wiped out by miraculous Alteran weapon :rolleyes:

Jeff O'Connor
February 3rd, 2008, 06:15 AM
what's the point of bringing another powerful eneny into SG? In the end, they all suffer the same fate. Wiped out by miraculous Alteran weapon :rolleyes:

Harsh words, but I can't deny how often true they are.

g.o.d
February 3rd, 2008, 06:23 AM
Harsh words, but I can't deny how often true they are.

I forgot to mention wiped out off-screen

Klenotka
February 3rd, 2008, 08:23 AM
I forgot to mention wiped out off-screen

McKay: "Hey, Sheppard, do you remember how we defeated Wraith one month ago?" :D

I think it´s pointless to bring another enemy, they will defeat them anyway. I would prefer their explanation about what happened to Furlings instead of introducing new enemy.

I think it could be cool for Furlings to be something like Vorlons. Friends at first, but "enemies" later.

jenks
February 3rd, 2008, 08:59 AM
what's the point of bringing another powerful eneny into SG? In the end, they all suffer the same fate. Wiped out by miraculous Alteran weapon :rolleyes:

Yeah like the Asurans! Oh wait... No like the Goa'uld! Oh wait...

kymeric
February 3rd, 2008, 09:06 AM
McKay: "Hey, Sheppard, do you remember how we defeated Wraith one month ago?" :D

I think it´s pointless to bring another enemy, they will defeat them anyway. I would prefer their explanation about what happened to Furlings instead of introducing new enemy.

I think it could be cool for Furlings to be something like Vorlons. Friends at first, but "enemies" later.

or.........frenimies?!?!?

Prior_of_the_Ori
February 3rd, 2008, 01:15 PM
I think it could be cool for Furlings to be something like Vorlons. Friends at first, but "enemies" later.

The avalanche has already started, it is too late for the pebbles to vote. *disappears*

:p

g.o.d
February 3rd, 2008, 03:04 PM
Yeah like the Asurans! Oh wait... No like the Goa'uld! Oh wait...

I wasn't talking about them!

PG15
February 3rd, 2008, 03:10 PM
Indeed! You were only choosing certain facts and ignoring others which falsify it to support your claim!

g.o.d
February 3rd, 2008, 03:17 PM
Indeed! You were only choosing certain facts and ignoring others which falsify it to support your claim!

look PG15, the best thing you (and jenks) should do is just simply ignore my posts as I ignore yours

PG15
February 3rd, 2008, 03:49 PM
But you didn't ignore mine. ;)

I never ignore posts, from anybody. It's not my way.

Gaeth
February 3rd, 2008, 11:05 PM
what's the point of bringing another powerful eneny into SG? In the end, they all suffer the same fate. Wiped out by miraculous Alteran weapon :rolleyes:

Yeah Ancient tech is good and all but I'd rather see them defeat their enemies with good old fashioned human ingenuity. One of the benefits of Stargate is that they'd use real world modern earth tech to take on a much more powerful enemy. They need to get back to that, or just use massive brutal violence. I'll settle for either one.

Gaeth
February 3rd, 2008, 11:14 PM
It'd be better to have a larger number of smaller enemies like maybe a rebel Genii faction. Also, they could have some fights with the bolokai (sp?). Imagine hordes and hordes of blood thirsty cannibals getting mowed down my machine gun fire.

Another good idea is more of the wild card individual villains, like Michael. He's my favorite Stargate villain.

Prior_of_the_Ori
February 4th, 2008, 03:14 AM
It'd be better to have a larger number of smaller enemies like maybe a rebel Genii faction. Also, they could have some fights with the bolokai (sp?). Imagine hordes and hordes of blood thirsty cannibals getting mowed down my machine gun fire.

Another good idea is more of the wild card individual villains, like Michael. He's my favorite Stargate villain.

Bolo Kai. Well not as a great big villain or anything but a nice little threat if the Expedition members ever get lost or separated from Atlantis.

kymeric
February 4th, 2008, 07:33 AM
A lot of you keep refering to the Wraithe as being evil when in fact they are not. McKay even points this out in an earlier episode. The Wraithe feed on humans because that is thier food source. If they didnt need humans for food then they would most likely leave us alone.

Ok im gonna go way out on a limb here and say that anything that wants to kill me is evil. Wild i know huh. Dosent matter WHY they wanna kill me, its the end of me so its fundamentally wrong. And id bet my friends and family would think it too.

zoislk
February 4th, 2008, 08:27 AM
Ok im gonna go way out on a limb here and say that anything that wants to kill me is evil. Wild i know huh. Dosent matter WHY they wanna kill me, its the end of me so its fundamentally wrong. And id bet my friends and family would think it too.

Not to get back into this debate about what's holy/evil, or if it's even possible for who/what if it is real at all... (re: debates about the Ori - and the real group they are based off of - and the MW replicators being "evil")

"Evil" being a perspective, it cannot "be" (evil) but only can "seem" to be (evil) from certain points of view.

To you, someone that wants to kill you is evil. But are they really evil? What basis can you pin that on? If it's simply that they would kill to live, then most any species that is going to survive any conflict will likely be "evil"...

JohnDuh
February 4th, 2008, 11:18 AM
No, the enemy will continue to be the writers ;)

Lord batchi ball
February 4th, 2008, 11:57 AM
No, the enemy will continue to be the writers ;)

or US *noooo the humanity, WHY, WHY!!, Oh WHY!!

Ltcolshepjumper
February 4th, 2008, 05:54 PM
I still believe there is more we need to learn about the wraith. I don't see why the enemy needs to be scary. They are threatening and the fact humans are their food sort an enemy I find interesting. Most of the stargate enemies killed others. The wraith just stun people for a food sort. If a person puts themselves in the shoes of the characters that can be very unnerving.

I'm hoping we will get to see what it was the Aurora found out about their weakness.

The Wraith have really become like the Ancients, Goauld and the Asgard- a bore. There is nothing new about them. Their technology is lame now. The Wraith are nothing extraordinary- they were just able to come up with an unethical way of defeating the Ancients (which doesn't even make sense). What Atlantis needs is a fresh, new enemy (doesn't have to be too powerful), but preferably nothing too human looking (the Wraith, Ori, goauld, replicators all look like humans- the Wraith are mutated humans). Atlantis needs a completely alien looking enemy (but not buglike).

The Boff
February 4th, 2008, 06:00 PM
In the beginning of stargate SG1 the tau'ri was a total underdog. but they always managed to kick ass despite the fact that they were fighting against enemies far more technologicly advanced and powerful. one of the reasons was that the goa'uld didnt think we were a real threat.

the Tau'ri are now the powerful and technologicly advanced race. what if we got a taste of our own medicine? an example:
the ancients are revered as gods by some cultures in Pegasus. and some await their return and so on. imagine a fanatical society, not Ori fanatical but still heavy believers. what if they found out that some group of humans are living in the city of the ancestors and desecrating their legacy? theyd probably be pissed. and would want us out.
and what would we have to be afraid of? theyre just a bunch off nobodys without any real weapons, right?
and they kick our asses just the same way we kicked the goa'uld in the beginning.

i think that could work as a new enemy. cause tech heavy races are done to death, we need a new twist.



or TPTB could sit down and give the wraith a serious overhaul and make them as cool as they have the potential to be.

zoislk
February 5th, 2008, 12:06 AM
In the beginning of stargate SG1 the tau'ri was a total underdog. but they always managed to kick ass despite the fact that they were fighting against enemies far more technologicly advanced and powerful. one of the reasons was that the goa'uld didnt think we were a real threat.

the Tau'ri are now the powerful and technologicly advanced race. what if we got a taste of our own medicine? an example:
the ancients are revered as gods by some cultures in Pegasus. and some await their return and so on. imagine a fanatical society, not Ori fanatical but still heavy believers. what if they found out that some group of humans are living in the city of the ancestors and desecrating their legacy? theyd probably be pissed. and would want us out.
and what would we have to be afraid of? theyre just a bunch off nobodys without any real weapons, right?
and they kick our asses just the same way we kicked the goa'uld in the beginning.

i think that could work as a new enemy. cause tech heavy races are done to death, we need a new twist.



or TPTB could sit down and give the wraith a serious overhaul and make them as cool as they have the potential to be.

There is definite potential there, but I think that would fit more as a secondary enemy that has to be dealt with, and not the main threat. You still have to focus on an enemy at least as powerful as you, otherwise it just gets dumbed down.

~Benjamin~
February 5th, 2008, 02:26 AM
That could work, we would have to go to back to our roots to defeat them but i would be possible , only problem is that the city as an impenatrable defence , (shield over stargate , sensors and big shield to dedect and defend against ships

Gaeth
February 5th, 2008, 05:11 PM
What Atlantis needs is a fresh, new enemy (doesn't have to be too powerful), but preferably nothing too human looking (the Wraith, Ori, goauld, replicators all look like humans- the Wraith are mutated humans). Atlantis needs a completely alien looking enemy (but not buglike).

Yes! Something Lovecraftian! With tentacles and other utterly inhuman appendages.


In the beginning of stargate SG1 the tau'ri was a total underdog. but they always managed to kick ass despite the fact that they were fighting against enemies far more technologicly advanced and powerful. one of the reasons was that the goa'uld didnt think we were a real threat.

the Tau'ri are now the powerful and technologicly advanced race. what if we got a taste of our own medicine? an example:
the ancients are revered as gods by some cultures in Pegasus. and some await their return and so on. imagine a fanatical society, not Ori fanatical but still heavy believers. what if they found out that some group of humans are living in the city of the ancestors and desecrating their legacy? theyd probably be pissed. and would want us out.
and what would we have to be afraid of? theyre just a bunch off nobodys without any real weapons, right?
and they kick our asses just the same way we kicked the goa'uld in the beginning.

i think that could work as a new enemy. cause tech heavy races are done to death, we need a new twist.

Yes, this is a really, really good idea. They could be splinter group from the brotherhood that took that ZPM.

Miroslav
February 6th, 2008, 03:20 AM
New enemy should be older than Ancients, and more powerful, like First Ones form Babylon 5 (Lorien's people, Shadows, Vorlons etc.)

Prior_of_the_Ori
February 6th, 2008, 04:33 AM
New enemy should be older than Ancients, and more powerful, like First Ones form Babylon 5 (Lorien's people, Shadows, Vorlons etc.)

I dont think they will do that... plus its pretty much clear that the Ancients were the oldest race in the Stargate universe... unless Universe brings something new.

Miroslav
February 6th, 2008, 04:40 AM
I dont think they will do that... plus its pretty much clear that the Ancients were the oldest race in the Stargate universe... unless Universe brings something new.


Universe is pretty big place.

Jumper_One
February 6th, 2008, 02:03 PM
Universe is pretty big place.

true but why would TBTB change something that worked for 11 years? ;)

Prior_of_the_Ori
February 6th, 2008, 02:58 PM
While its been said that there is a new enemy for the next season, it could be a character or small faction rather then an entire race or species. I mean I think they said that there would be a new enemy for SG-1 Season 10 and people thought it would be a new race but it turned out to be Adria. So that could be the case here.

Johannus
February 6th, 2008, 04:16 PM
Hi everyone, I haven't posted much but fancied commenting on this one. Sorry if its a little bit of a rant and I will undoubtedly mention things someone hasn't seen yet so if your worried about season 4 spoilers then just skip past.

I think the only way we can look forward to more than another season or two (if we're lucky) is if they do a lot of reworking. If you think of how many options they have already: Ford, Weir, Genii, Michael, Todd, possible surviving Assurans (separate to Weir's group), and then anyone else I've forgotten. Realistically they could spend a season (or more) just answering the questions we want to know about all this. The problem is dragging storylines out long enough to span more than one season. The Goa'uld lasted the best part of 8 seasons so we know they can do it if they try.

If it were up to me I would try to rework the Wraith a little. In my opinion the best wraith characters have been in The Defiant One, Submerged, Sateda and Common Ground, and here is why.

The Defiant One - well he just really lives up to that name. He was arrogant, cruel (he had fed off his own crew), ridiculously strong, and smart, if all the wraith lived up to his standard then you could almost see how they would have been strong enough to defeat the Ancients.

Submerged - we got to see a little more of the queens that we know so little about, but more importantly, even when strapped to bed she still didn't consider Dr Weir to be in any position of power. She was just as proud as she should have been and it did wonders for her character. The only problem is they have never really developed a queen as they usually die fairly quickly.

Sateda - here we expect Ronon to challenge the leader, beat him up and go home happy. Instead we see the wraith throwing him around like a doll, and then killed in a nice surprising way. The good thing about this wraith is he looked so different.

Common Ground - this episode even more so than Michael I think created so much mystery about the Wraith. "There is a lot you do not know about the wraith" so open and unspecific statement they really do have a lot of scope.

I can understand the distinctions necessary between the Wraith Troops, Leaders, and Queens, but they really have become a little too weak and far to easy to kill, and because of this they aren't really very scary any more. Another thing which I think is a big shame is they never try to make people see those ghostly images anymore. It just seems like a little power they have which has been forgotten (like Carter being able to use Goa'uld healing device for example)

If they made the wraith characters more individual (the way they look as a lot, mostly in the older series though, looked more odd than really mean), made the majority of them very mean, made them harder to kill, and focussed on their powers, healing and telepathic then I think it would go a long way to making them seem much better.

With regards to the wraith's ships we heard them mention how their ships are old and haven't been used for a real war for so long, and how the wraith technicians were allied elsewhere, so why not show us a hive with these technicians that have upgraded it or just beefed it up a little, little tweaks to keep them new will go a long way.

As for a new enemy (yes I do think they need one), I think something completely non human. The best SGA example I can think of so far would be the energy creature that drained the personal shield, though how you could make that even slightly viable as an enemy I have no idea. I don't really watch a lot of other sci fi shows so its hard to give many examples but the one I always think of are the Daleks from Dr Who. They are completely not human shaped (they have an eye and you could try to argue an arm but thats about it), they don't have human emotions, they look robotic but then you find out they are like tentacled creatures. To me they are just everything an alien should be, original. If SGA introduced any other new race and it was humanoid again I wouldn't be able to help but cringe.

The universe is supposed to be diverse, so show it that way.


Sorry for ranting so uncontrollably but thanks for reading (especially if you made it this far).


Dan

Platschu
February 6th, 2008, 04:36 PM
I hope the newest enemy will have a realistic goal against Atlantis. I would like to see a detailed alien race, which has name, culture, history, interesting ships and characters, an own goal what they would like to reach, good and bad skills. A race which can be hated and loved by fans, which make us remember to them in every book or film they appear in the next years. I think Martin Gero has fresh ideas, so I hope my wishes will be performed. :)

The Boff
February 6th, 2008, 05:01 PM
@Johannus:

I agree pretty much with absolutely everything you said in your post.
it's the individual wraith that have been cool and "scary". the wraith on a whole ... meh...

Gaeth
February 6th, 2008, 05:13 PM
Johannus, I agree with you they need to have more tougher individual Wraith. Maybe they get stronger as they get old? That would be cool.

I've been on about an alien looking new enemy since before the Asurans came out. I know they can do it, like the RE'TU looked inhuman.

Oh yeah, and no more replicators!

Johannus
February 7th, 2008, 03:38 AM
I dont think they really need to say they get stronger as they get older or anything like that, if they just stop trying to make them weaker then we should be fine.

As for the replicators (the Pegasus ones) I quite liked the idea of them because they were so strong, they were basically evil ancients, but then they also started dying easily (their ships anyway) and with the ARG and then their defense against them, it was getting a little hard to keep up. Instead have some there in the background, but dont use them 4 times a series, just maybe once or twice. And dont give them objectives like 'wipe out all wraith' or 'wipe out all humans', its just too singular and boring.

An idea I had a while back for an episode (which ironically I named Submerged before they did lol) was to have a fairly advanced race (similar to the Wraith but not as numerous) who the Ancients had formed an alliance with in the Pegasus Galaxy. The Ancients helped them grow as a civilisation and even gave them a ZPM or two. However, once the Wraith emerged as a threat then this new race decided pretty much right away (thus explaining why the wraith dont know about them) by submerging their city (they inspired the Ancients to do this when they were under attack). Because their city was much smaller than Atlantis and they had 2 ZPMs the shields held much longer than the Atlantis ones. The problem is now they are running low on energy so they are having to send out small parties to search for ZPMs.
This way we can have a fairly advanced race who arent evil, dont want to just blow up Atlantis, but will sometimes cross our path to try to beat us to the ZPMs, but also help us out sometimes against the wraith.
The biggest downside is as I said already I would like them to have non humanoid aliens, and when coming up with this idea I pictured them a little like Nem in SG1.

What does everyone think?

Gaeth
February 7th, 2008, 03:54 AM
I dont think they really need to say they get stronger as they get older or anything like that, if they just stop trying to make them weaker then we should be fine.

.....

The biggest downside is as I said already I would like them to have non humanoid aliens, and when coming up with this idea I pictured them a little like Nem in SG1.

What does everyone think?

Well with age or just stronger individual Wraith, you can still have drones people can kill by the hundreds and also have 'boss' enemies and 'miniboses' that can give the heroes a frightening challenge.

As for the undersea aliens that sounds fine as long as they don't look anywhere near as human as Nem.

It has nothing to do with what you said but I've noticed that Wraith that are shot down very often aren't dead, so one way a fan could 'write off' Wraith weakness is just to say 'oh well that drone isn't dead, just knocked down. Tis but a flesh wound!"

sparkygate
February 7th, 2008, 03:58 AM
Man i wanna see rouge ancients, maybe ancients who deflected from atlantis because they actually wanted to kill off the wraith using there technological superiority (The military ancients) while the other ancients [Ones who left atlantis to go to earth- the Scientists] didn't want to kill them but make peace between the wraith instead.

Though it would be pretty cool to see another race that is interested in Atlantis but not to get to earth or the ancients super tech but is actually interested in studying us instead --> like the asgard --> however are also evil

{DoG}Apophis
February 7th, 2008, 04:23 AM
i would like 1 last gou'ald ark 5 ep ark a few last Minor Gou'ald lords that where in Baal commander circle , who been in hiding last few year since the system lords where defeated, have agents still in Trust on earth who have slowly been gathering earth new shield and asgaurd hyper speed tech and and there slowly been getting info off early to a hided base with a small fleet of ha'tak motherships say 7 slowly upgradeing them last few years . Have a guest appearest from sg1 who just find out about sercret base to late just as ha'tak enter hyperspase heading for Alantics, they get there and take the Apollo by surprise after a battle it's destroyed, and before shepard can launch drones 2 of the Ha'tak do a sucide collion hit right at alantics taking out the weak zpm power shild, then gou'ald send in few thousand jaffa still loyal to them to take control and take prisioners rest escape back through gate to earth, then last scene could show some lotar goulad slave bring out of special case a full zpm... to becont

{DoG}Apophis
February 7th, 2008, 04:35 AM
Next ep.. starts off with showing alantics in hyperspace be escort by 5 ha'taks, meanwhile back on earth Shepard and everyone are putting a plan together to retake the city With Odyssey and Daedalus and New 305 useing acients and asgaurd tech

that all i got at moment u get the idea anyway Gou 'ald driven ep would like them to bump into wraith along there way in hyperpasce

gatechick
February 7th, 2008, 04:42 AM
I like the idea of bringing back Michael and his super army of super bugs. I would still like a wraith with a goa'uld, but having a non human army of big bugs or whatever those things were, would be sweet. Although they would prbably just catch all the bugs on one planet and blow it up, thus ruining it.

Lord of Nightmares
February 7th, 2008, 07:21 AM
(SG-1/AoT SPOILERS)
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Personally, I wouldn't mind if the new enemy introduced in S5 turns out to be an ascended Ori, or perhaps even a small handful of them who somehow managed to survive events in S10 of SG-1 and AoT.

After what happened in AoT, they've now decided to start all over and have moved their operations to the Pegasus Galaxy, which has one of the highest concentrations of humans in the known universe after the MW and the Alteran's home galaxy, the latter two of which are now out of the question for them. Without any human followers to spread the word of Origin, they'll now have to take a more direct hand in trying to gain new worshippers in the PG, although they won't be too overt going about it as they don't want to risk attracting attention from the ascended Ancients until they're able to gather enough strength to face them on equal footing again.

At the very least, this time around TPTB might actually be able to focus on some actual ascended Ori individuals and better flesh them out, as opposed to them being mostly this big bad cosmic threat looming in the background throughout SG-1 who were pretty much faceless (apart from Adria) as they left most of the work to their worshippers. They might also be able to further explore that cryptic statement that Merlin made about how the Ori initially started out with the best of intentions, and that the original Alteran split wasn't necessarily as black and white as it was painted out to be.
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(END SPOILERS)