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View Full Version : Carson and Keller in season 5. Can it work?



Mitchell82
January 9th, 2008, 03:20 PM
I don't think a thread like this exits so I'll start one. The mods can close it if they wish. I am a supporter of both and with Jewel confirming she's returning, is it possible for both characters to work together? Let's speculate and offer our thoughts but I want to make this clear. This is not a place to discuss our hatred for one character or the other nor is it a place to praise them. This is strictly to discuss how we think they could intergrate both characters to the show. If this turns into a "battle of the fans" I will request it closed.

Mitchell82
January 9th, 2008, 03:22 PM
I think that this is extremly plausible. Keller can remain as CMO and Carson can be cheif surgeon and help with the most dire circumstances when extra help is needed to save lives.

Jumper_One
January 9th, 2008, 03:25 PM
I think that this is extremly plausible. Keller can remain as CMO and Carson can be cheif surgeon and help with the most dire circumstances when extra help is needed to save lives.

I agree, let Carson come back but keep Keller. Rodney has Zelenka, why can't there be two doctors?

marty2006
January 9th, 2008, 03:26 PM
i thought he was only coming back for the double episode, with possible episodes in the future

Mitchell82
January 9th, 2008, 03:27 PM
i thought he was only coming back for the double episode, with possible episodes in the future

Correct which is why I created this as JM has said they are considering it.

Mitchell82
January 9th, 2008, 03:28 PM
I agree, let Carson come back but keep Keller. Rodney has Zelenka, why can't there be two doctors?

Exactly it can work!

Killdeer
January 9th, 2008, 03:29 PM
I wouldn't mind Keller hanging around for a few eps in a Zelenka-type role, but I don't think she should stay as Head of Medicine. She's not old enough or confident enough to handle the role IMO - they need to bring in someone with a stronger personality.

Mitchell82
January 9th, 2008, 03:30 PM
I wouldn't mind Keller hanging around for a few eps in a Zelenka-type role, but I don't think she should stay as Head of Medicine. She's not old enough or confident enough to handle the role IMO - they need to bring in someone with a stronger personality.

I am probably going to get flamed for this but I disagree. Yes Carson is more experienced but despite her young age and early lack of confidence she has definatly proven her worth IMO.

Platschu
January 9th, 2008, 03:33 PM
I can work, but Keller should stay in Atlantis. She needs more development, but I think we will learn her better in the second half of season 4.

Beckett can be a jolly joker, who should have an own, bigger story arc. I hope he will return at least for 4-6 episode and Keller should get 2-5 episode in next season. ;)

Rosehawk
January 9th, 2008, 03:39 PM
I wouldn't mind Keller hanging around for a few eps in a Zelenka-type role, but I don't think she should stay as Head of Medicine. She's not old enough or confident enough to handle the role IMO - they need to bring in someone with a stronger personality.

I agree that I don't Keller should stay head of medicine. I am having a hard time with her character being head of medicine mostly because of her youthfulness which doesn't convince me she has had enough training or experience to be in that position, however I think that Dr. Keller is a great character with some potiental that I would like to see grow. I think she makes a great doctor, just not a Head doctor at this point in her career.

I would really love to see Carson and Keller working together. I think that Paul and Jewel have wonderful chemistry together. It would have been nice to have Carson mentoring Keller, then I think the cast changes would have been more plausible regardless of how I felt about Carson's death, which I wasn't happy with.

Platschu
January 9th, 2008, 03:42 PM
Carson is specialized in genetic, Keller is better in special deceases. So they can work greatly together. ;)

Livingstone
January 9th, 2008, 03:43 PM
They could both be recurring, bot not both regulars.

Jumper_One
January 9th, 2008, 03:46 PM
They could both be recurring, bot not both regulars.

I think Carson could be a recurring and Keller a guest or recurring character

SaberBlade
January 9th, 2008, 03:47 PM
I think it is possible.

I don't really see how there would be a problem, especially if they were to use some form of alternation between the two. Keller could do odd numbered episodes, Carson could do even numbered. On top of that, Carson could be used if the episode would involve the Wraith or Michael and his mutants, while Keller could be used if it comes to general emergencies and offworld missions.

Platschu
January 9th, 2008, 03:49 PM
You should use "Jennifer", because Keller is her family name. So Carson & Jennifer or Beckett & Keller. ;)

I support Livingstone idea, they should be both recurring. And if the main characters need 10-12 times the doctors in the new season, than they will be hardly whumped by TPTB. :)

starfox
January 9th, 2008, 03:50 PM
I think it can work, so long as it's clear that each one has their specialties. People go to multiple doctors/specialists IRL, we don't need to have just one person be the base GP. Also, having Keller on board gives us the opportunity for episodes/arcs where Carson gets sick, which could be interesting.

jelgate
January 9th, 2008, 04:00 PM
They could both be recurring, bot not both regulars.I never want to see a doctor as a main character in Stargate. Thats what got us into this mess. I see no problem witth Keller and Beckett as reccuring characters if it is played correctly. I unfortunatly see one doctor in a many episodes?* next season and the other will be in a select few.

Mitchell82
January 9th, 2008, 04:05 PM
I never want to see a doctor as a main character in Stargate. Thats what got us into this mess. I see no problem witth Keller and Beckett as reccuring characters if it is played correctly. I unfortunatly see one doctor in a many episodes?* next season and the other will be in a select few.

Exactly. Carson was in way too many eps last year.

Mitchell82
January 9th, 2008, 04:06 PM
I think it is possible.

I don't really see how there would be a problem, especially if they were to use some form of alternation between the two. Keller could do odd numbered episodes, Carson could do even numbered. On top of that, Carson could be used if the episode would involve the Wraith or Michael and his mutants, while Keller could be used if it comes to general emergencies and offworld missions.

Exactly. It is very possible to do it.

erb
January 9th, 2008, 04:08 PM
Exactly. Carson was in way too many eps last year.

In your opinion. Not in mine.

Keller is in way too many episodes this year and to come, IMO.

Mitchell82
January 9th, 2008, 04:10 PM
In your opinion. Not in mine.

Keller is in way too many episodes this year and to come, IMO.

I know you don't like her but that doesnt add up. Keller is in a fraction of the eps Carson was in last year and the year before and many he was not needed in. {Mod Snip}

erb
January 9th, 2008, 04:16 PM
I know you don't like her but that doesnt add up. Keller is in a fraction of the eps Carson was in last year and the year before and many he was not needed in. {Mod Snip}

How is stating Keller was in too many episodes this year different from you stating Carson was in too many last? Difference of opinion.

Icedragon
January 9th, 2008, 07:25 PM
I think both would think that the other is more qualified to be the HMO. We have seen evidence of this when Carson trying to find a new team states that everyone is more qualified than him. I assume he thought the same of Keller. Keller also thinks she can't live up to Carson's standards.

Briangate78
January 9th, 2008, 08:06 PM
I think the real test will be "The Kindred" since both Keller and Carson will be in those episodes. Hopefully they get a bunch of scenes together. I think Atlantis can have two doctors. :)

jelgate
January 9th, 2008, 08:08 PM
I think the real test will be "The Kindred" since both Keller and Carson will be in those episodes. Hopefully they get a bunch of scenes together. I think Atlantis can have two doctors. :)But can they have two white dogs

Briangate78
January 9th, 2008, 08:09 PM
But can they have two white dogs

Hmmm that is a tough one. :lol:

Mitchell82
January 9th, 2008, 08:10 PM
I think the real test will be "The Kindred" since both Keller and Carson will be in those episodes. Hopefully they get a bunch of scenes together. I think Atlantis can have two doctors. :)

Agreed. I think it can be done we'll have to wait and see.

Briangate78
January 9th, 2008, 08:13 PM
Agreed. I think it can be done we'll have to wait and see.

It's very simple, Carson would be the CMO since he is still alive which means he should have the position back, Keller could stay on as a consultant or an assitant. Maybe one goes in the field and the other stays behind.

Mitchell82
January 9th, 2008, 08:15 PM
It's very simple, Carson would be the CMO since he is still alive which means he should have the position back, Keller could stay on as a consultant or an assitant. Maybe one goes in the field and the other stays behind.
Very possible.

Fenrir Foxz
January 9th, 2008, 08:56 PM
It's very simple, Carson would be the CMO since he is still alive which means he should have the position back, Keller could stay on as a consultant or an assitant. Maybe one goes in the field and the other stays behind.

That's a good way of them both being useful...

And no doubt Anti-Keller fans will hope it's Keller out in the field and she gets captured by the Wraith *and fed on* or something...

VSS
January 9th, 2008, 09:06 PM
It would be very unusual for someone Dr. Keller's age to be CMO and therefore a superior to someone of Dr. Beckett's age, considering he's got to be a real star or he wouldn't be out there. Even with her by herself, we can barely believe she's CMO (some of us can't, but that's a debate for another day). And while it's true Dr. Frasier called in a surgeon from time to time, that was with the Academy Hospital right up the street. So I can't see Keller being in charge and having Beckett come in for certain procedures or to deal with his area of expertise, unless we just accept he's around Atlantis somewhere.

In fact, if he did return as CMO, and Keller were still there, that would be great and would solve a lot of problems. I agree that Atlantis needs two doctors- no one can be a good surgeon and a good internal medicine doctor, too.

BTW- how many people live in Atlantis?

Briangate78
January 9th, 2008, 10:08 PM
If you think about SG-1/SGA really had 5 main characters for the most part. This changed in Season 2 and 3 of SGA and Season 10 of SG-1. There was 6 main characters in these seasons. Sometimes too many full-time characters are overwhelming. Even if you are the best writer in the whole world some characters are going to lose focus or fall into the background. Carson was full-time in Season 3 and yet he was not even in every single episode. However, Weir was in every single episode. Did she need to be? Hell no. Eps like "The Ark" and "The Game" and even "Irresponsible" truly did not need Weir or even Beckett for the most part. I think this season of SGA has proven you don't need to have every single character in every single episode. Even Carter who is Full-time has 14/20 eps this season. I could see this direction continue for Season 5.

Getting to my point, LOL! As per Carson and Keller, would it hurt to split up a recurring role between Carson and Keller? I think it would be a great idea. Recurring is not a bad thing and SGA has given their recurring characters depth and a chance in the spotlight.

Anyway when I watch old eps of SG-1 and SGA the focus was the 4 person team. Everyone basically was there for support. SGA was always different, the characters like Weir( relates to Hammond/Landry), Carson and Keller( releates to Frasier and Lam) had more of a role in SGA, and not just support. They even had episodes focused on them. I cannot even think of multiple eps that were focused on someone like Hammond or even Dr. Frasier. I think that is what makes SGA so different from SG-1, the characters and their direction. Yes we see similar influenced stories but the characters are what makes this show stand on it's own. I think it will be great to try out these two characters for next season. Give them each a focused ep or two next season. Should be very interesting how it plays out.

idlewild202
January 9th, 2008, 10:21 PM
I absolutely think it could work. There is no reason why they both can't be recurring characters. Atlantis is big enough for two doctors, they both can focus in their own specialties, and work together where needed. I was watching "First Strike" today and noted Keller mentioning something about going back to being a "regular doctor" (or something along those lines). So... why not give her that position in Atlantis, with Beckett as CMO. I actually think that could work very well.

joebags
January 10th, 2008, 09:23 AM
Keller is pretty until she opens her mouth and you realize how incompetent she is, then I don't like her at all.

I'd rather Carson return and Keller go home.

jenks
January 10th, 2008, 09:47 AM
If you think about SG-1/SGA really had 5 main characters for the most part. This changed in Season 2 and 3 of SGA and Season 10 of SG-1. There was 6 main characters in these seasons. Sometimes too many full-time characters are overwhelming. Even if you are the best writer in the whole world some characters are going to lose focus or fall into the background. Carson was full-time in Season 3 and yet he was not even in every single episode. However, Weir was in every single episode. Did she need to be? Hell no. Eps like "The Ark" and "The Game" and even "Irresponsible" truly did not need Weir or even Beckett for the most part. I think this season of SGA has proven you don't need to have every single character in every single episode. Even Carter who is Full-time has 14/20 eps this season. I could see this direction continue for Season 5.

Getting to my point, LOL! As per Carson and Keller, would it hurt to split up a recurring role between Carson and Keller? I think it would be a great idea. Recurring is not a bad thing and SGA has given their recurring characters depth and a chance in the spotlight.

Anyway when I watch old eps of SG-1 and SGA the focus was the 4 person team. Everyone basically was there for support. SGA was always different, the characters like Weir( relates to Hammond/Landry), Carson and Keller( releates to Frasier and Lam) had more of a role in SGA, and not just support. They even had episodes focused on them. I cannot even think of multiple eps that were focused on someone like Hammond or even Dr. Frasier. I think that is what makes SGA so different from SG-1, the characters and their direction. Yes we see similar influenced stories but the characters are what makes this show stand on it's own. I think it will be great to try out these two characters for next season. Give them each a focused ep or two next season. Should be very interesting how it plays out.

I don't. We know from past experience that it's just not practical having a doctor to write into every episode.

Emre
January 10th, 2008, 10:32 AM
I agree, let Carson come back but keep Keller. Rodney has Zelenka, why can't there be two doctors?

I fully agree with you; it would be no problem with two doctors (until authority gets in the picture)...

But two CMO's would be a bit weird. Still, having Carson and Keller wouldn't be a bad thing at all.

Mitchell82
January 10th, 2008, 12:53 PM
It would be very unusual for someone Dr. Keller's age to be CMO and therefore a superior to someone of Dr. Beckett's age, considering he's got to be a real star or he wouldn't be out there. Even with her by herself, we can barely believe she's CMO (some of us can't, but that's a debate for another day). And while it's true Dr. Frasier called in a surgeon from time to time, that was with the Academy Hospital right up the street. So I can't see Keller being in charge and having Beckett come in for certain procedures or to deal with his area of expertise, unless we just accept he's around Atlantis somewhere.

In fact, if he did return as CMO, and Keller were still there, that would be great and would solve a lot of problems. I agree that Atlantis needs two doctors- no one can be a good surgeon and a good internal medicine doctor, too.

BTW- how many people live in Atlantis?
I don't see it. Keller is young but she sure has proven (at least to me) that she can indeed do the job. SO I can see her remaining as CMO and Carson helping out as needed.

stclare
January 10th, 2008, 01:09 PM
I think the two could work together, but i wouldnt want either of them in an ep just for the sake of it. i also havent seen them on screen together so i dont know what there chemistry is like.

it will also depend on how carson is reintroduced this season, i havent been spoilered yet, but i would think that it will determine wether carson could reprise his role as cmo maybe with keller as his second.

also has anyone confirmed wether its full time reccuring etc for jewell for season 5 as that would be a helpful indicator.

i think it would be a bad thing to make either of them full time cast members as i dont think you need a doctor in every ep.

Mitchell82
January 10th, 2008, 01:21 PM
I think the two could work together, but i wouldnt want either of them in an ep just for the sake of it. i also havent seen them on screen together so i dont know what there chemistry is like.
Exactly we'll see in Kindred.


it will also depend on how carson is reintroduced this season, i havent been spoilered yet, but i would think that it will determine wether carson could reprise his role as cmo maybe with keller as his second.
Truthfully even the spoilers havent told us much anyway.


also has anyone confirmed wether its full time reccuring etc for jewell for season 5 as that would be a helpful indicator.
No one knows but most likely just recurring.


i think it would be a bad thing to make either of them full time cast members as i dont think you need a doctor in every ep.

Agreed.

stclare
January 10th, 2008, 02:29 PM
I'll tentatively look forward to the Kindred then.

i hope the two interact well during that ep, as if the chemistry isnt great or the way Carson is introduced is well blahh. it could damage both charcters and there potential roles in season 5.

i guess its a wait and see game :)

Rocky89
January 10th, 2008, 07:29 PM
I fully agree with you; it would be no problem with two doctors (until authority gets in the picture)...

But two CMO's would be a bit weird. Still, having Carson and Keller wouldn't be a bad thing at all.

No it wouldn't.

Ripple in Space
January 10th, 2008, 10:37 PM
I thought Keller was in too many eps in the first half of Season 4. I thought Carson was forced into eps in S3 to fulfill his contract. I think Carson brings a great dynamic to Atlantis and is the less absurdly young of the two.

I wouldn't mind 10 Beckett eps. and 5 Keller eps. in S5 (with some crossovers).

But personally, I think that Caldwell and Ellis actually add dimension to storylines while Carson just adds cast chemistry, and Keller just adds a pretty face.

Landers
January 11th, 2008, 06:41 AM
There aren't enough stories for two doctors. Bring back Carson and dump Keller. She doesn't look old enough to have graduated high school, and she doesn't come across as all that brainy.

Willow'sCat
February 2nd, 2008, 01:38 PM
I like Keller a lot, I hate bringing Beckett back from the dead but I also think two doctors can work on the show, but it does come down to how much fans actually think screen time matters. ;)

I do think fans assume when tptb say he/she/it will be in 7 eps, that the character will be in those eps a lot... the reality is in total they could still only end up with half an hour of actual screen time for the whole season. ;)

So as long as fans keep that in mind this could work. Keller in 5-10 eps Beckett in 5-10 eps... also as Jewel and Paul are friends they probably do have some on screen chemistry, I think if Carson is back to normal (not in itty bitty pieces :P) that his "mothering" side would probably come out towards Keller. It is still a little unclear as to how long Keller was there with Beckett... also I assume Beckett chose her to come to Atlantis, that she wasn't foisted on him. Really I see little problems between the two doctors working together.

For me it still comes back to how they bring Carson back, not whether he and Keller can work together. :cool:

Mitchell82
February 2nd, 2008, 01:39 PM
There aren't enough stories for two doctors. Bring back Carson and dump Keller. She doesn't look old enough to have graduated high school, and she doesn't come across as all that brainy.

I disagree.

Briangate78
February 2nd, 2008, 01:45 PM
I disagree.

Same here. Both are returning in a recurring role, and it should be very interesting.


I like Keller a lot, I hate bringing Beckett back from the dead but I also think two doctors can work on the show, but it does come down to how much fans actually think screen time matters. ;)

I do think fans assume when tptb say he/she/it will be in 7 eps, that the character will be in those eps a lot... the reality is in total they could still only end up with half an hour of actual screen time for the whole season. ;)

So as long as fans keep that in mind this could work. Keller in 5-10 eps Beckett in 5-10 eps... also as Jewel and Paul are friends they probably do have some on screen chemistry, I think if Carson is back to normal (not in itty bitty pieces :P) that his "mothering" side would probably come out towards Keller. It is still a little unclear as to how long Keller was there with Beckett... also I assume Beckett chose her to come to Atlantis, that she wasn't foisted on him. Really I see little problems between the two doctors working together.

For me it still comes back to how they bring Carson back, not whether he and Keller can work together. :cool:


Well who said he died? ;) I think it will be very interesting how they bring him back. A lot has been riding on this return. So much support for his return for them to do a half-ass job of brining him back. I think the 2 Doctors will be great.

Also, remember Carson is also a scientist and works with Genetics and DNA, and etc. Keller is just a medical doctor.

Eri13
February 2nd, 2008, 01:55 PM
Also, remember Carson is also a scientist and works with Genetics and DNA, and etc. Keller is just a medical doctor.

I think they could both work, especially to the point given above--Carson split his time doing genetic research/xenoresearch and being a medical doctor, too. He wasn't just an ER doc. I could see this being the case for both of them. Researchers, as well as there for times of crisis. Having them go off-world to check on a populace, one bringing back the results for the other to check, sharing a scene or two every other episodes--to me that would seem perfectly normal.

As Atlantis is a city, it's feasible to believe they could have a large medical staff/genetic research department. Carson could be offworld one episodes, Keller another.

But I do think that on Atlantis, group character interaction is necessary. I haven't liked these 'split apart' episodes where one or two actors dominate the whole story. Atlantis is a central character too, and I prefer the episodes where everyone appears and works together.

PG15
February 2nd, 2008, 02:02 PM
Beckett/Keller FTW! ;)

Briangate78
February 2nd, 2008, 02:02 PM
I think they could both work, especially to the point given above--Carson split his time doing genetic research/xenoresearch and being a medical doctor, too. He wasn't just an ER doc. I could see this being the case for both of them. Researchers, as well as there for times of crisis. Having them go off-world to check on a populace, one bringing back the results for the other to check, sharing a scene or two every other episodes--to me that would seem perfectly normal.

As Atlantis is a city, it's feasible to believe they could have a large medical staff/genetic research department. Carson could be offworld one episodes, Keller another.

But I do think that on Atlantis, group character interaction is necessary. I haven't liked these 'split apart' episodes where one or two actors dominate the whole story. Atlantis is a central character too, and I prefer the episodes where everyone appears and works together.

Yup! Carson also has a very good relationship with the characters. So he'll be hanging out, doing his thing. It just makes SGA feel so much warmer with him still being around and in a lot of eps.

Amalthea
February 2nd, 2008, 02:26 PM
I think it could work... I believe in another thread somewhere in this mass someone suggested that Carson could come back as head genetic researcher, which given his work on the Wraith retrovirus would make sense. Keller can keep doing the mundane things like patching Ronon and Shep up while Carson continues his research. Periodically, we could have some big ole crisis that has them work together.

At the end of the day, though, the producers have to keep in mind that the cast, above all else is a numbers game. I believe 7 is the absolute limit before characters start suffering and even then, some end up as quasi-useless (See Star Trek for examples). So, it's like anything else: some people are going to have to get cut. Since Shep, Teyla, Ronon and Rodney aren't going to be among the cuts, that leaves 3 spots. Minus one for the new commander, you have two left and there are a lot of permanent extras floating around Atlantis already. Forcing a giant cast together like that could turn out very badly.

GateLadyM
February 2nd, 2008, 03:15 PM
I don't see a need for two doctors. I'd keep Beckett and send Keller back home. She isn't cut out for the job and it shows. Frankly, she irritates the heck outta me.

Willow'sCat
February 2nd, 2008, 04:17 PM
Well who said he died? ;) Well if you don't count an exploding tumour, a funeral and the bucket load of tears I shed over Sunday... well sure. :p But that is what I mean if Sunday turns out to make me feel like I was used then I won't be happy to see Carson.

Briangate78
February 2nd, 2008, 05:26 PM
Well if you don't count an exploding tumour, a funeral and the bucket load of tears I shed over Sunday... well sure. :p But that is what I mean if Sunday turns out to make me feel like I was used then I won't be happy to see Carson.

I hear where you are coming from. Sunday was a good episode even though the end was well sad. But, if the return of Carson is done very well then you can look at Sunday as just a summary episode of what Carson was all about.

Willow'sCat
February 2nd, 2008, 06:13 PM
I hear where you are coming from. Sunday was a good episode even though the end was well sad. But, if the return of Carson is done very well then you can look at Sunday as just a summary episode of what Carson was all about.Oh you are just Mr half glass full aren't you. :p:D

Briangate78
February 2nd, 2008, 06:20 PM
Oh you are just Mr half glass full aren't you. :p:D

Yes, what can I say. I think Carson is going to be a great return and a ray of light for S5!

Mitchell82
February 2nd, 2008, 07:04 PM
I don't see a need for two doctors. I'd keep Beckett and send Keller back home. She isn't cut out for the job and it shows. Frankly, she irritates the heck outta me.

For me she has shown she can do the job so it'll be interesting to see how they can integrate the two characters.

Briangate78
February 2nd, 2008, 07:11 PM
For me she has shown she can do the job so it'll be interesting to see how they can integrate the two characters.

I am glad we are getting both of them back next season. They should split up their role and half of those eps have both of them in there. I can see so much potential with Carson and Keller on board. :)

We will hopefully get a taste of these two together in "The Kindred".

Mitchell82
February 2nd, 2008, 07:13 PM
I am glad we are getting both of them back next season. They should split up their role and half of those eps have both of them in there. I can see so much potential with Carson and Keller on board. :)

We will hopefully get a taste of these two together in "The Kindred".

Agreed. She is in The Kindred isn't she?

Jumper_One
February 2nd, 2008, 07:21 PM
Agreed. She is in The Kindred isn't she?

yes she is -> The Kindred Part 1 (http://www.gateworld.net/atlantis/s4/418.shtml); The Kindred Part 2 (http://www.gateworld.net/atlantis/s4/419.shtml)

idlewild202
February 2nd, 2008, 07:21 PM
Agreed. She is in The Kindred isn't she?Yup, she's in both part 1 and part 2.

Briangate78
February 2nd, 2008, 07:22 PM
Agreed. She is in The Kindred isn't she?

I have high hopes for these eps. I would count them as one episode, and I think they will be the best of the season, um until "The Last Man" that is. :p