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    I see some ship downgrades in next episode (spoilers)

    First off the episode looks like a stunner, 10/10. Now for the criticism about the special effects.

    I am sure most of you have seen the clip of the battle for All My Sins Rembered:

    The first thing I noticed: WTF were those Aurora's firing? Assuming it is drones, WTF were they not eating up the Hives alive (No Mans Land)?

    They have downgraded the Aurora's to ensure the survival of the Wraith as a viable enemy. The Wraith instead of losing most of the fleet, probably lost around 50% by the time the attack takes place against Asuras.

    One should expect almost all the 7 Hives to be destroyed, but I betcha that all of them (except token Hive) survived the battle.

    Both Earth battlecruisers must get more damaged facing Aurora's! Come on, this is the best warship the Ancients had!

    Secondly, the Asgard lasers have been downgraded: The one shot we see against an Aurora, the laser does damage, however it should have dissected the ship.

    Which is quite silly, considering the damage it did to the massively larger Ori ship.


    Why? Once again to make the Wraith a viable threat. Now instead of being able to take on 5-6 Wraith Hives at once, an Earth battlecruiser will be able to take on just 2-3 at once.

    #2
    Originally posted by JSPuddlejumper View Post
    First off the episode looks like a stunner, 10/10. Now for the criticism about the special effects.

    I am sure most of you have seen the clip of the battle for All My Sins Rembered:

    The first thing I noticed: WTF were those Aurora's firing? Assuming it is drones, WTF were they not eating up the Hives alive (No Mans Land)?

    They have downgraded the Aurora's to ensure the survival of the Wraith as a viable enemy. The Wraith instead of losing most of the fleet, probably lost around 50% by the time the attack takes place against Asuras.

    One should expect almost all the 7 Hives to be destroyed, but I betcha that all of them (except token Hive) survived the battle.

    Both Earth battlecruisers must get more damaged facing Aurora's! Come on, this is the best warship the Ancients had!

    Secondly, the Asgard lasers have been downgraded: The one shot we see against an Aurora, the laser does damage, however it should have dissected the ship.

    Which is quite silly, considering the damage it did to the massively larger Ori ship.


    Why? Once again to make the Wraith a viable threat. Now instead of being able to take on 5-6 Wraith Hives at once, an Earth battlecruiser will be able to take on just 2-3 at once.
    Well there's one explanation. You've been over estimating the Asgard upgrades.

    We have no idea if the Aurora class is the most powerful ship the ancients built. Chances are it's not seeing as we've heard on several occasions the Ancients tried to keep building bigger and better ships to beat the Wraith.

    It looked like the Aurora was firing energy weapons. And BTW it might be a good idea to watch the episode before you start speculating etc...We have no idea whats happening at the moment.
    Robert Jastrow (self-proclaimed agnostic): "For the scientist who has lived by his faith in the power of reason, the story ends like a bad dream. He has scaled the mountains of ignorance; he is about to conquer the highest peak; as he pulls himself over the final rock, he is greeted by a band of theologians who have been sitting there for centuries."

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      #3
      The Asgard lasers punched through a much larger Ori ship, prior to the lasers, the Ori ships were imprevious to all our attacks.

      The Aurora's are the most powerful warship the Ancients built, this is indicated on the show many times.

      The Aurora's must eat Hives alive (No Man's Land). The amount of damage both Earth ships seems to be getting from the Aurora's weapons seem minimal. WTF?

      I guess they do not want the Wraith to go the way of the G'ould. It makes sense in that regard.

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by JSPuddlejumper View Post
        The Asgard lasers punched through a much larger Ori ship, prior to the lasers, the Ori ships were imprevious to all our attacks.

        The Aurora's are the most powerful warship the Ancients built, this is indicated on the show many times.

        The Aurora's must eat Hives alive (No Man's Land). The amount of damage both Earth ships seems to be getting from the Aurora's weapons seem minimal. WTF?

        I guess they do not want the Wraith to go the way of the G'ould. It makes sense in that regard.
        The Ori were only attacked by Ha'tak weapons and Oneill weapons that was for a short amount of time thanks to their uber weapons. That doesn't mean they'd be impervious to Wraith weapons or Asgard weapons in a drawn out engagement. Now the Asgard beams are obviously very powerful but I don't think they're the uber turn the tide of war weapons they've been made out to be. I can't see them one hit KO'ing Hives for starters. The shields on the Aurora were also down at the time, it's possible it just has a much stronger hull than the Ori mother ship .

        It has never been indicated that the Aurora was their most powerful ship. Where are you getting this from? It's been said the Ancients tried building bigger and better to win the war. If the Aurora was their most powerful ship there wouldn't be so many of them lying around. I expect the most powerful lantean ship would be capable to taking apart an Ori mothership if they were clever enough to put the technology we know they have onto it.

        We don't know how much damage the Earth ships are getting. The Asurans could be focusing on the Wraith.
        Robert Jastrow (self-proclaimed agnostic): "For the scientist who has lived by his faith in the power of reason, the story ends like a bad dream. He has scaled the mountains of ignorance; he is about to conquer the highest peak; as he pulls himself over the final rock, he is greeted by a band of theologians who have been sitting there for centuries."

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          #5
          There is no way the Asgard lasers could ever take out a Hive in 1 shot, even before seeing this. The burst is too short of a duration, the Hive is 11km. It would take several hits. The Ori main weapon, possibly if it hit sideways.

          Now it looks like it will take several dozen hits by a Asgard laser to take out a Hive.

          The Ori ships obviously took little or no damage when facing against a O'Neill and Ha'tak fleet. We saw absolutely no damage on the ship Daniel landed in. Plus, if the ion cannons were effective, surely the Asgard would send some ships against just 4 Ori ships. Thus Wraith weapons would also be of little effect against the Ori motherships. I am sure they would cause some damage, but insufficient.

          Best indication came out recently that the Aurora's were the most powerful ship the Ancients had: Asuran Keller, here is the device to locate all the Aurora's. From all indication, the Asurans know all Ancient technology. They have no doubt mind scanned a few Ancients when taking Atlantis a few months ago.

          Comment


            #6
            That is true, there is a massive size difference between the Ori and Wraith ships.

            I think it will ultimately be about power. I submit as evidence:

            The Daedalus-class Hyperdrive is, technically, just as powerful as main Asgard hyperdrives.

            Daedalus Normal Power: 18 Days
            Daedalus+ZPM (The Seige): 4 days
            Asgard Ship (Misbegotten): 4 days

            So while we do have weapons/tech on our ships with AMAZING capacity (read: tearing bad guys a new *******....and then inaugurating it), our ships don't each have the power requirements to take full advantage. Odyssey had a ZPM and Agard power core, and we can't create either. Most likely our ships are powered by a number of Naquadah generators and we're doing the best we can.

            What this does mean is that we have room to grow. As we advance in the franchise we can develop new methods of power generation and take full advantage of our technology's power.

            It's actually a *gasp* original approach to story advancement- starting out with the Uber Tech and spending years trying to learn how to use it, and I have to give the staff of Atlantis a lot of credit for using it on this scale.

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by JSPuddlejumper View Post
              There is no way the Asgard lasers could ever take out a Hive in 1 shot, even before seeing this. The burst is too short of a duration, the Hive is 11km. It would take several hits. The Ori main weapon, possibly if it hit sideways.
              Ok I agree.

              Now it looks like it will take several dozen hits by a Asgard laser to take out a Hive.
              We don't know that yet. It took a few hits to destroy a Ori vessel with no shields so it would probably take a few more than that to destroy a Hive.

              The Ori ships obviously took little or no damage when facing against a O'Neill and Ha'tak fleet. We saw absolutely no damage on the ship Daniel landed in. Plus, if the ion cannons were effective, surely the Asgard would send some ships against just 4 Ori ships. Thus Wraith weapons would also be of little effect against the Ori motherships. I am sure they would cause some damage, but insufficient.
              The attack was spread over 4 ships and for a short period of time. If the Jaffa through Ha'taks into the battle one after the other for 10 minutes non stops to keep firing IMO the Ori would have been destroyed. Although there would be about 100 dead Ha'taks. The Asgard didn't have the ships to send on a suicide mission. They'd be destroyed before they could defeat the Ori vessel.

              Best indication came out recently that the Aurora's were the most powerful ship the Ancients had: Asuran Keller, here is the device to locate all the Aurora's. From all indication, the Asurans know all Ancient technology. They have no doubt mind scanned a few Ancients when taking Atlantis a few months ago.
              Doesn't mean the Aurora is their most powerful ship. Unless there's numerous other smaller weaker ancient ships about which has never been suggested. It may be that the Aurora is simply the best ship for the job no point building 5 super ships when you can build 20 Aurora's in the same time especially when the Wraith are all over the galaxy. We've heard time and time again the Ancients kept building bigger and better to win, the Aurora is a standard warship not an uber dreadnought.
              Robert Jastrow (self-proclaimed agnostic): "For the scientist who has lived by his faith in the power of reason, the story ends like a bad dream. He has scaled the mountains of ignorance; he is about to conquer the highest peak; as he pulls himself over the final rock, he is greeted by a band of theologians who have been sitting there for centuries."

              Comment


                #8
                Deady and Apolo won't be able to take out an ori ship...

                The Oddy was powered by a zpm, and lets say it increses its uberness by 1500%. Without it, they are simply ships with powerful shields and basic energy weaps.

                Do doubt that 9 hives + deady and apolo can take out 3-4 fully powered arouras. The Asurans probally put a zpm or two on the ships just because they can.

                Not to mention that the earth ships won't be taking the damage because the asurans are set to kill wraith first, humans second.

                Go Green

                Comment


                  #9
                  obviously the episode hasn't aired yet but the main reason the Asgard beams on the Apollo and the Daedalus aren't as powerful as the odysseys is because both of those ships don't have the luxury of a zpm powering all of their systems. if they did i am sure that they would be a lot more powerful

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                    #10
                    Originally posted by apollo22 View Post
                    obviously the episode hasn't aired yet but the main reason the Asgard beams on the Apollo and the Daedalus aren't as powerful as the odysseys is because both of those ships don't have the luxury of a zpm powering all of their systems. if they did i am sure that they would be a lot more powerful
                    I'm not sure if the ZPM powered the beam weapons, but it was that or the Asgard power core, and they don't have either.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      CRAP! I had a big reply written out but the net went off... Ah well, to summarise:

                      1. The Ancient Drones were controlled by the mind. The Asuran drones could be weaker. This is backed up by the fact that an Asuran controlled drone could not destroy a PJ in The Return Pt II, despite the fact that we have seen 2 drones controlled by Oniell destroy a Hatak. We have never seen the Asurans being able to fire drones 'in bulk'. Those weapons that they are firing in the trailer seem to be secondary turrets. We have seen these turrets on Aurora class ships before, but they have never been shown being used.

                      2. The Asgard weapons were designed for use against the Ori as far as we know. Even then, it had trouble going up against more than two ships at once. It is possible they will be less effective against other types of ships, but I would still say they would be powerful. Just perhaps slightly less effective.

                      3. The weapons on the Odyssey were installed by the Asgard. The ones on the Daedalus and Apollo were backward engineered/installed by humans, as such it is doubtfull that they are as effective as the Odysseys' weapons. The same goes for the core that powers them, they are all retroffited to the ships without the help of the creators of the technology.

                      Of course, alot/all of that is theory, but it is very plausible

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by JSPuddlejumper View Post
                        The first thing I noticed: WTF were those Aurora's firing? Assuming it is drones, WTF were they not eating up the Hives alive (No Mans Land)?
                        Easy explanation, one we have seen already they are not drones.

                        Both Earth battlecruisers must get more damaged facing Aurora's! Come on, this is the best warship the Ancients had!
                        Probably the most common warship, if you found out that the ships in the final peace delegation in before is sleep were indeed aurora class ships i swear i will stop arguing this point because.

                        ALT-WEIR: The Atlanteans sent a delegation protected by their most powerful warships in the faint hope of negotiating a truce. One on one, the Atlantean ships were more powerful, but the Wraith were so many. After that great battle, it was only a matter of time.

                        Secondly, the Asgard lasers have been downgraded: The one shot we see against an Aurora, the laser does damage, however it should have dissected the ship.

                        Which is quite silly, considering the damage it did to the massively larger Ori ship.
                        Auroras are one of the most robust ships in Stargate, its only beaten by the Hives. considering that the Asgard weapons took down the shields, for the most part the Asgard weapons fulfilled their purpose. The weapons is concentrated in a small area so most damage would be deep but confined. Thats probably why they used rail guns in the end to do a lot of wide spread damage. The Siege rail guns probably gave about a 2900 J impact per shot, but if they upgraded the rail guns as some one said before then it would make much more sense you use that spraying the ships then making a few deep holes.

                        Why? Once again to make the Wraith a viable threat. Now instead of being able to take on 5-6 Wraith Hives at once, an Earth battlecruiser will be able to take on just 2-3 at once.
                        how do you know they could have taken 5-6 each? we have only seen asgard weaponry used on ori ships, and they are impossible to compare with the hives.

                        Originally posted by JSPuddlejumper View Post
                        The Asgard lasers punched through a much larger Ori ship, prior to the lasers, the Ori ships were imprevious to all our attacks.
                        Larger than the hive? or larger than the Aurora? Because the Ori ship design seems structurally week by convention, geometrically the ship does not have a solid build.

                        The Aurora's are the most powerful warship the Ancients built, this is indicated on the show many times.
                        Only most common, not most powerful. The most powerful ship was indicated in before i sleep but they gave no clues to what class those ships were. The way they say Aurora CLASS vessel indicates that they need to distinguish that type of ship from other they might have found in the database.

                        The Aurora's must eat Hives alive (No Man's Land). The amount of damage both Earth ships seems to be getting from the Aurora's weapons seem minimal. WTF?
                        How are you getting that the ep spoiler doesnt even show the bridge of the ship in battle.

                        Originally posted by JSPuddlejumper View Post
                        There is no way the Asgard lasers could ever take out a Hive in 1 shot, even before seeing this. The burst is too short of a duration, the Hive is 11km. It would take several hits. The Ori main weapon, possibly if it hit sideways.
                        Agreed, but on the Ori ship part i disagree. There is no way the beam from the ori ship would penetrate possibly 3 km of of the hive, it too lacks duration. if it fired from the top or bottom i would say it has a semi-good chance of punching a hole.

                        Now it looks like it will take several dozen hits by a Asgard laser to take out a Hive.
                        as it should.

                        The Ori ships obviously took little or no damage when facing against a O'Neill and Ha'tak fleet. We saw absolutely no damage on the ship Daniel landed in. Plus, if the ion cannons were effective, surely the Asgard would send some ships against just 4 Ori ships. Thus Wraith weapons would also be of little effect against the Ori motherships. I am sure they would cause some damage, but insufficient.
                        Wraith weapons probaby would do damage, probably as much as the asgard weapons would. in size comparison it is huge and that does not deter from the fact that it still dishes out a lot of damage per shot as well. But saying that the Oniell did absolutely no damage is a guess. It appears to have made a strafe then it split from the battle. In the process only firing on the two left ships while Vala's ship (which daniel transported to) was on the far right. And the asgard were there to prevent the Ori from coming, not to fight them. they had no knowlege of ori ships as every body else so they couldnt have known now many of their ships it would have taken to stop the first wave.

                        Best indication came out recently that the Aurora's were the most powerful ship the Ancients had: Asuran Keller, here is the device to locate all the Aurora's. From all indication, the Asurans know all Ancient technology. They have no doubt mind scanned a few Ancients when taking Atlantis a few months ago.
                        So they know about aurora class ships and how to use them, so what? that gives no direct evidence in either way that the Aurora class vessel was the zenith in Ancient warships. Perhaps they Asurans know there were better but still face the same problems the ancients did in making them, either way it still show that the only thing we can infer is that it is the most common.
                        Their white flags are no match to our guns!!

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                          #13
                          Originally posted by wkw427 View Post
                          Deady and Apolo won't be able to take out an ori ship...

                          The Oddy was powered by a zpm, and lets say it increses its uberness by 1500%. Without it, they are simply ships with powerful shields and basic energy weaps.

                          Do doubt that 9 hives + deady and apolo can take out 3-4 fully powered arouras. The Asurans probally put a zpm or two on the ships just because they can.

                          Not to mention that the earth ships won't be taking the damage because the asurans are set to kill wraith first, humans second.
                          zpms DID NOT help the asgard weapons, the asgard even said the new upgrades WILL NOT infringe on your zpm....So that means the asgard power core is strong enough and if the apallo has that its basically as strong as the oddy
                          Well i was bored and decided to make a borg vs stargate sig, so enjoy...btw the explosions and ships look weird i know, its hard to make them blend
                          Anime signature in spoiler tag
                          Spoiler:
                          Here is an anime sig, i was bored so i randomly picked a maid pic and photoshoped it

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                            #14
                            Originally posted by jhkplaya888 View Post
                            zpms DID NOT help the asgard weapons, the asgard even said the new upgrades WILL NOT infringe on your zpm....So that means the asgard power core is strong enough and if the apallo has that its basically as strong as the oddy
                            Nope. Thor said that the Asgard computer core has its own powersource that will not infringe on the ship's zpm. He didn't say a word about the upgrades (weapons, shields etc.) so it's safe to assume that those do draw power from the zpm otherwise why would there be a zpm at all?

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                              #15
                              Originally posted by Darien View Post
                              Nope. Thor said that the Asgard computer core has its own powersource that will not infringe on the ship's zpm. He didn't say a word about the upgrades (weapons, shields etc.) so it's safe to assume that those do draw power from the zpm otherwise why would there be a zpm at all?
                              why would the asgard design something that draws power from the zpm if they know earth cant make any more and that they are hard to get?
                              Well i was bored and decided to make a borg vs stargate sig, so enjoy...btw the explosions and ships look weird i know, its hard to make them blend
                              Anime signature in spoiler tag
                              Spoiler:
                              Here is an anime sig, i was bored so i randomly picked a maid pic and photoshoped it

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