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Ranlier
December 8th, 2007, 10:10 AM
Why, why exactly did they need all five team members to pilot the runaway jumper when only one would do? Since they're not genetic clones, the ancient gene shouldn't have come into play. Have 1 repli-team member pilot the jumper, while the rest come back to Atlantis and get shot with ARGs to take out the nanites.

I'd love to see that skill set repeated over, but I know its not feasable from a writer's standpoint.

The_Carpenter
December 8th, 2007, 10:32 AM
Why, why exactly did they need all five team members to pilot the runaway jumper when only one would do? Since they're not genetic clones, the ancient gene shouldn't have come into play. Have 1 repli-team member pilot the jumper, while the rest come back to Atlantis and get shot with ARGs to take out the nanites.

I'd love to see that skill set repeated over, but I know its not feasable from a writer's standpoint.

Why wouldn't they be genetic clones? they were still organic. And even with nanites you need cells to divided to heal wounds and cells can't divide or indeed function without DNA. But as for why all five of them had to be in the Jumper I don't know.

Teelie
December 8th, 2007, 10:39 AM
Maybe they wanted them to detect the life signs of 5 people? Or they knew they were going to die and decided to go out as a team.

VSS
December 8th, 2007, 10:49 AM
Maybe they wanted them to detect the life signs of 5 people? Or they knew they were going to die and decided to go out as a team.

I think that's it. There needed to be five of them on the PJ. But I also think, as Elizabeth said, sacrificing themselves to save someone else is exactly what the human team would do, and she wanted to prove she was human. <sniff>

Integrabyte
December 8th, 2007, 10:52 AM
I think that's it. There needed to be five of them on the PJ. But I also think, as Elizabeth said, sacrificing themselves to save someone else is exactly what the human team would do, and she wanted to prove she was human. <sniff>

...maybe its another plot hole :D

g.o.d
December 8th, 2007, 11:58 AM
just another idiotic way how to kill interesting characters or race. Why am I so suprised?:S

Integrabyte
December 8th, 2007, 12:01 PM
just another idiotic way how to kill interesting characters or race. Why am I so suprised?:S


Indeed!

jelgate
December 8th, 2007, 12:03 PM
Indeed!Who said Weir's dead?

Ripple in Space
December 8th, 2007, 12:08 PM
Why, why exactly did they need all five team members to pilot the runaway jumper when only one would do?

So that if the jumper was compromised they'd have a fighting chance at survival.

Shep- fly
McKay- Repair
Ronon- Defend while repairing/escaping
Teyla- Defend while repairing/escaping
Weir- lead

Teelie
December 8th, 2007, 12:20 PM
just another idiotic way how to kill interesting characters or race. Why am I so suprised?:S

You've got way too much angst.

g.o.d
December 8th, 2007, 12:23 PM
You've got way too much angst.

that's because I hate stupid and useless death in scifi.

the Asgard, the Ori were killed offscreen, real Elizabeth was killed offscreen and now those duplicates

IcyNeko
December 8th, 2007, 12:26 PM
Wrong again. The movie supposedly addresses the Ori, and S4 takes place after the movie. So tone off the hate and go play with your legos.

g.o.d
December 8th, 2007, 12:33 PM
Wrong again. The movie supposedly addresses the Ori, and S4 takes place after the movie. So tone off the hate and go play with your legos.


according to one excerpt from AoT they were killed in the Shroud

Integrabyte
December 8th, 2007, 12:34 PM
Wrong again. The movie supposedly addresses the Ori, and S4 takes place after the movie. So tone off the hate and go play with your legos.

I could say the same to you...

IcyNeko
December 8th, 2007, 12:38 PM
So they weren't killed off-screen. We knew that they got blown to pieces by Merlin's weapon. :D

Well, cept for Adria. So technically, the Ori are still alive.. through her.


I could say the same to you...
I prefer teamfortress 2 than legos. Too many pieces get stuck together and incredibly hard to get apart.

Teelie
December 8th, 2007, 01:05 PM
that's because I hate stupid and useless death in scifi.


In other words, most of it? Stupid and pointless death is subjective to the viewer and a lot of "stupid and pointless" deaths aren't that stupid or pointless. Some are poorly executed but not stupid and not pointless.



the Asgard, the Ori were killed offscreen, real Elizabeth was killed offscreen and now those duplicates

The Asgard were a goner race for a very long time and no one should have been surprised by that. As to the other, it's alluded to but like Weir, not confirmed. "Off screen" is usually a fake out and easy way to write a supposed character or race off but then bring them back later with some explanation of how they couldn't possibly have died.

Shiro
December 8th, 2007, 02:18 PM
To be honest, having a duplicate of all of Atlantis crew would be a pretty annoying loose thread.

Probably best to get rid of them as quick as possible. They'd served their purpose, no point in dragging out the inevitable.

garhkal
December 8th, 2007, 04:11 PM
Why, why exactly did they need all five team members to pilot the runaway jumper when only one would do? Since they're not genetic clones, the ancient gene shouldn't have come into play. Have 1 repli-team member pilot the jumper, while the rest come back to Atlantis and get shot with ARGs to take out the nanites.

I'd love to see that skill set repeated over, but I know its not feasable from a writer's standpoint.

Maybe cause the enemy was scanning for life signs and had them peggd. So if a jumper with a single person on it went away they would have known it was a distraction..

andromeda_dan
December 8th, 2007, 06:35 PM
the Asurans were homing in on a beacon on the puddle jumper, not on the 5 repli-SGA team, and the replicators have no idea that the rebel repli have created 5-clone SGA (unless a captured rebel repli gave up the info on the clones). Maybe clones want to take this opportunity to prove that they are just as good as the real SGA team.

Lord batchi ball
December 8th, 2007, 07:10 PM
I think that's it. There needed to be five of them on the PJ. But I also think, as Elizabeth said, sacrificing themselves to save someone else is exactly what the human team would do, and she wanted to prove she was human. <sniff>

Why would thier need to be 5? The Reps had no idea that they cloned Wier and they only knew that the team had 4 members so I would think 5 would be a dead give away that somthing was wrong.

But the rest or your statement I agree with. :D

PG15
December 8th, 2007, 08:23 PM
I have a feeling that they probably interrogated the Rep-Rebels about what they were doing. If they did, then they'd know that 5 rep rebels had escaped.

g.o.d
December 9th, 2007, 03:58 AM
JM's blog:


The puddle jumper is shot down while the real team makes good their escape: The question I’ve seen asked is “Why did all of the duplicates sacrifice themselves in the puddle jumper?” The answer is: because they didn’t think they’d necessarily be sacrificing themselves. Although their intention was to draw the replicators away from the gate so that the real team could get away, the duplicates were attempting to escape themselves.

I don't if he's serious or he thinks we're idiots so we're buy it

jenks
December 9th, 2007, 04:05 AM
What are you talking about? They tried to cloak the ship, so they obviously thought they were going to escape.

g.o.d
December 9th, 2007, 04:08 AM
What are you talking about? They tried to cloak the ship, so they obviously thought they were going to escape.

yeah, I got it. But only one of them could have flied PJ, not all of them. This is the thing which I don't understand.

Integrabyte
December 9th, 2007, 04:35 AM
yeah, I got it. But only one of them could have flied PJ, not all of them. This is the thing which I don't understand.

Said it before and I was going to say it again :D

PLOT HOLE :D


I won't find excuses to justify their action in this episode. Done it a million times :P. Its about time I put my foot down :P.

jenks
December 9th, 2007, 04:38 AM
I don't understand what either of you are talking about, they obviously were planning on leading them away, cloaking, and then escaping through the gate, sounds like something they'd do, it's not like they did it expecting to be shot down is it?

PG15
December 9th, 2007, 04:10 PM
Indeed. No point having only one person in the PJ when all of them want to get away.


Said it before and I was going to say it again :D

PLOT HOLE :D


I won't find excuses to justify their action in this episode. Done it a million times :P. Its about time I put my foot down :P.

In other words, you don't want to think for yourself but would rather TPTB spoonfeed every bit of info to you? Whatever happened to "not treating fans like idiots"?

Integrabyte
December 10th, 2007, 02:59 AM
Indeed. No point having only one person in the PJ when all of them want to get away.
In other words, you don't want to think for yourself but would rather TPTB spoonfeed every bit of info to you? Whatever happened to "not treating fans like idiots"?


I must agree with what you say otherwise you are gonna go all mod on me and red me for not sharing your wisdom. Yes PG15 you are right and on my ignore list.

Serebii
December 10th, 2007, 05:25 AM
Said it before and I was going to say it again :D

PLOT HOLE :D


I won't find excuses to justify their action in this episode. Done it a million times :P. Its about time I put my foot down :P.
Please learn what a Plot Hole is. That term is getting thrown around so much for stuff people dont like regardless of if it makes sense or not. Here is the definition

A plot hole is a gap or inconsistency in a storyline that goes against the flow of logic established by the story's plot.

This is not necessarily a Plot Hole. In my view, this is a logical way for them not to be lumped with duplicates for the next god knows how many episodes AND for the door to be open for a continuation. Why would they all be in the Jumper? They couldn't go back to Atlantis due to the Nanites...there are still protocols that prevent stuff like that happening., which if I recall correctly was even mentioned in this episode

Thank you

Integrabyte
December 10th, 2007, 05:40 AM
In my view, ...

Please learn that opinions might differ on SGA episodes.


Thank you.

Serebii
December 10th, 2007, 06:08 AM
Yes opinions differ, but a Plot Hole is either a plot hole or it is not. This is not.

g.o.d
December 10th, 2007, 06:12 AM
Yes opinions differ, but a Plot Hole is either a plot hole or it is not. This is not.

of course it was a plot hole

Serebii
December 10th, 2007, 06:16 AM
of course it was a plot hole
No it clearly wasn't. You really should check the definition of plot hole. Plot Holes arent just things you dont like

g.o.d
December 10th, 2007, 06:34 AM
No it clearly wasn't. You really should check the definition of plot hole. Plot Holes arent just things you dont like


of course, they arent. If they were, then the whole SGA would a giant plot hole

Serebii
December 10th, 2007, 07:14 AM
of course, they arent. If they were, then the whole SGA would a giant plot hole
Which is my point. You're just pinning the term Plot Hole on everything to try and justify you constantly moaning about it.

Sure you can moan about it, but use correct terms

g.o.d
December 10th, 2007, 07:32 AM
Which is my point. You're just pinning the term Plot Hole on everything to try and justify you constantly moaning about it.

Sure you can moan about it, but use correct terms


I won't repeat myself or other people....it has been said many times.

wise one
December 10th, 2007, 07:41 AM
if they did send one person to distract the ships i would think sheppard would volunteer(the nanite made one)

while the others go with the real team

mckay would be an asset to the real team not sure about the others

Integrabyte
December 10th, 2007, 07:58 AM
if they did send one person to distract the ships i would think sheppard would volunteer(the nanite made one)

while the others go with the real team

mckay would be an asset to the real team not sure about the others

I thought I was the only one thinking of this. I was wrong. Great minds think alike :).



I won't repeat myself or other people....it has been said many times.

I know how you feel :)

PG15
December 10th, 2007, 11:53 AM
Ok, you know what? Please tell me what this plot hole is. Quote your earlier posts if you don't want to waste the effort. JM's explanation that they were also trying to escape makes perfect sense to me, and for once I cannot see why it won't make sense for others. Please, enlighten me.


I must agree with what you say otherwise you are gonna go all mod on me and red me for not sharing your wisdom. Yes PG15 you are right and on my ignore list.

Looks like my red didn't teach you anything. More will be forthcoming until you learn not to dismiss others' opinions based on a generalization that you've mistakenly believed. I'm not being a mod, just someone who's had enough of fandom's crap.

spinspinspin
December 10th, 2007, 04:28 PM
It makes sense for the "rebel-cator team" to do their distraction thing.

Let's consider their alternative, returning to Atlantis, and why they cannot / do not want to.

1. Repli-Weir said that they didn't want to be considered "less" than the original team.

2. Repli-Sheppard said they would be a security risk.

3. Repli-Ronon (and original Ronon) doesn't like the idea of two Ronon's running around. As far as he is concerned, he is the only one.

There will obviously be huge amounts of confusion and also distrust if the replicated team were to go back to Atlantis. And people will treat them as the "second team", not the same as the first. Repli-McKay wouldn't be the chief scientist, the original would.

Honestly, I wouldn't trust any of the replicated team members, how do we know they are not lying? After the replicated and the real team met up I was actually hoping that the replicated team will get killed off so we don't have to worry about conflict between the original and the duplicates.

I also think that the replicated team, being duplicates of their originals, would realise that they can't go back to Atlantis. If the situation was reversed, they wouldn't trust themselves either. When the replicated team volunteered themselves as a distraction, I believe they were voicing an unspoken desire by the original team. After all, if one team has to sacrifice themselves for the other, it has to be the replicated team. I believe the original team was too unselfish to suggest this, and the replicated team knows what they would want if the situation was reversed so they volunteered themselves so that the original team would not have to bring it up.

I actually breathed a sigh of relief when I saw the replicators shoot down the replicated team. I thought they would bring a new source of conflict rather than solutions. Of course, we don't know if they are actually dead yet, but it seems pretty likely. There may be other "ascension-seeking" factions though.

The episode brings up a lot of good ideas about what makes you human, etc, but doesn't leave enough time to develop it (I don't think it's ever possible to develop a good idea in 40ish minutes).

Xicer
December 10th, 2007, 04:35 PM
Personally, I think they're all still alive. I know its a longshot, but there's no way TPTB would kill them off like that, it'd be almost as bad as killing the real ones IMO. So I think they're still around somewhere.


I prefer teamfortress 2 than legos. Too many pieces get stuck together and incredibly hard to get apart.

Wow, I didn't know anyone else played TF2 on this forum. Awesome. :D

Jumper_One
December 10th, 2007, 05:41 PM
Personally, I think they're all still alive. I know its a longshot, but there's no way TPTB would kill them off like that, it'd be almost as bad as killing the real ones IMO. So I think they're still around somewhere.

well technically TMC was the first ep of a 3 parter, it would make sense to not kill them off. however if teh duplicate team's still alive I'd bet they won't survive BAMSR or Spoils of War

Amalthea
December 10th, 2007, 06:15 PM
I think they did it because they knew they couldn't be killed. Remember what's his name's daughter from Miller's Crossing? I think they all woke up and are going to do their best to cause problems for the Replicators.

scholar
December 11th, 2007, 12:28 PM
well technically TMC was the first ep of a 3 parter, it would make sense to not kill them off. however if teh duplicate team's still alive I'd bet they won't survive BAMSR or Spoils of War

Pretty low chance so probably not. However, I'd love to see the whole lot of them dumped on the Travellers. That way, they can go off and combat the Wraith without being in a position to be lesser versions as they would be in Atlantis.

Mattathias2.0
December 11th, 2007, 12:57 PM
One or all of them will likely return in some way.

Jumper_One
December 11th, 2007, 01:50 PM
One or all of them will likely return in some way.

that's just speculation

Mattathias2.0
December 11th, 2007, 01:54 PM
Well, Weir is suppose to make at least one more appearance this year. So it's possible. The way they ended the scenes for those characters suggests they might want to bring them back in the future.

Jumper_One
December 11th, 2007, 02:01 PM
Well, Weir is suppose to make at least one more appearance this year. So it's possible. The way they ended the scenes for those characters suggests they might want to bring them back in the future.

it depends which ep Weir will be in. if she's in TLM then you're right and there's a chance we'll see her in s5. however if her cameo appearance (and that's actually all it'll be) is in BAMSR then it'll be difficult to bring her back. yes of course the Asurans could have 'saved' her memory in order to always make another copy if they'd want to. but you can't bring her back like this forever, once yes, twice no (imo)

Carter1994
December 12th, 2007, 08:20 AM
Don't know if this has already been said, but Yes, they did all have to be on their. Remember how when the team hacked into the life signs detector and there were only five? Seems to me that if there wasn't five people in the Puddlejumper, only one of the ships would have chased after it, leaving the other to guard the gate from the others. So, they all had to be on the ship. Which brings up the question... why didn't they notice that there were five life signs on the ground? . . . Hmmm... *thinks hard for a minute* Ah-ha! Maybe they thought it was native animals? :thoranime07:

Darkdreams
December 12th, 2007, 03:27 PM
Don't know if this has already been said, but Yes, they did all have to be on their. Remember how when the team hacked into the life signs detector and there were only five? Seems to me that if there wasn't five people in the Puddlejumper, only one of the ships would have chased after it, leaving the other to guard the gate from the others. So, they all had to be on the ship. Which brings up the question... why didn't they notice that there were five life signs on the ground? . . . Hmmm... *thinks hard for a minute* Ah-ha! Maybe they thought it was native animals? :thoranime07:
That never crossed my mind, I was only thinking that the duplicate team had to all be on the jumper as they would detect that.
Why didnt they notice the team on the ground.

Still we dont know for sure if the duplicate team were killed, they were unconsious in some pools of blood but the nanites may have been working to repair them. Shepard was ok and the replicator shot him with his weapon but we dont know if it was on kill or stun.
Be interesting to find out if they was going to be back or not.

garhkal
December 12th, 2007, 04:35 PM
After rewatching it i only saw one pool of blood, under Ronon..