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GateWorld
December 6th, 2007, 09:41 AM
<DIV ALIGN="center"><TABLE WIDTH="450" BORDER="0" CELLSPACING="0" CELLPADDING="7"><TR><TD><DIV ALIGN="left"><FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial, san-serif" SIZE="2" COLOR="#000000"><A HREF="http://www.gateworld.net/atlantis/s4/410.shtml"><IMG SRC="http://www.gateworld.net/atlantis/graphics/410.jpg" WIDTH="160" HEIGHT="120" ALIGN="right" HSPACE="10" VSPACE="2" BORDER="0" STYLE="border: 1px black solid" ALT="Visit the Episode Guide"></A><FONT SIZE="1" COLOR="#888888">ATLANTIS SEASON FOUR</FONT>
<FONT SIZE="4"><A HREF="http://www.gateworld.net/atlantis/s4/410.shtml" STYLE="text-decoration: none">THIS MORTAL COIL</A></FONT>
<FONT SIZE="1">EPISODE NUMBER - 410</FONT>
<IMG SRC="/images/clear.gif" WIDTH="1" HEIGHT="10" ALT="">
A mysterious drone crashes into Atlantis, indicating that the Replicators may have found the city. But when Elizabeth Weir appears, the team realizes that the probe is just a part of a bigger mystery.

<FONT SIZE="1" COLOR="#888888"><B><A HREF="http://www.gateworld.net/atlantis/s4/410.shtml">VISIT THE EPISODE GUIDE ></A></B>
SPOILERS! PHOTOS! AND MORE!</FONT></FONT></DIV></TD></TR></TABLE></DIV>

freyr's mother
December 7th, 2007, 07:01 PM
OMG, i loved the beeping of replicator ships being detected by that thing when the screen went dark. That was hilarious.

Ace
December 7th, 2007, 07:03 PM
OMG, i loved the beeping of replicator ships being detected by that thing when the screen went dark. That was hilarious.

I agree... that was done quite well

Ace

DaCk
December 7th, 2007, 07:03 PM
HOLY MOLY!!! That was a GREAT episode. I really liked it. I wish the previews from last week didnt spoil it but whatchya gonna do about it. Also good views of a different ancient designed ship. Other than an Aurora class that is. They dont seem to be as big as an Aurora either. Maybe some sort of cruiser?

Beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep....

Mckay: "Oh crap."

LOLZ!

technoextreme
December 7th, 2007, 07:03 PM
I wonder if they can tweak the Replicator Vessel Detector to make it into an Aurora Vessel Detector. So far there have been three found and there may be more Latean ships lying around. They need all the help they can get.

Vash
December 7th, 2007, 07:03 PM
RIP Elizabeth weir

the fifth man
December 7th, 2007, 07:03 PM
This was definitely a great episode. I enjoyed it from start to finish.

wkw427
December 7th, 2007, 07:04 PM
MUST stay up late for it to be online.. CURSE MY CABLE PROVIDOR FOR NOT SHOWING SCIFI!!

Infernorhythm
December 7th, 2007, 07:04 PM
This Mortal Coil got a definite 6/5 from me. This episode is proof that SG: Atlantis is the best sci fi show on TV right now. Eat that BSG.

The story was great. I was wondering why the old uniforms were back and then it all made sense. The twist in the story was genius. Davos's vision came true, but like he said, no context, just a vision.

The acting was superb! This was a character driven story and all the actors nailed it. The paranoia the RepliTeam faced was so realistic and well done, as well as the worry and doubt after finding out their origins. Then when the real team found the doubles things just got better. The characters have really been taking an emotional beating this season and this episode just pushed it to the max. Those final scenes between McKay, Zelenka, and Sheppard really showed how deep this show can be. Looks like my theory of a psychological breakdown might be coming true.

Still, the best bit of the episode had to be the return of Torri Higginson. As much as I enjoyed SG-1, I have not like Carter being on Atlantis. Weir's semi return was great and the team's reaction to her was wonderfully done. Shame the real Weir is dead, but wow, this was the piece that had been missing from this season. RIP Weir. Looks like we'll never see her again, damn.

That last moment, especially the post-fade to black: uh oh. As Rodney so wonderfully put it: "Crap."

Sweetsong
December 7th, 2007, 07:05 PM
I totally liked the straightforward storytelling angle the writers took. They showed us the duplicates' side so there would be no doubt in our minds that they were telling the truth when they encountered the real Atlantis team. I really appreciated that.

The two Mckay's was probably the best together, they kind of reminded me of all the Carters working together from "Ripple Effect." This does seem to kind of finalize Weir's departure. Sheppard saying he thought they'd bring her back, but now he realizes she's gone, kind of seems like he was not only talking about Weir, but her portrayer Torri herself.

Overall this was a brilliant episode, Teyla holding the gun to hide her bump for most of the time we saw the real version of her made me chuckle a bit.

the fifth man
December 7th, 2007, 07:05 PM
It is sad to know that the real Weir is most likely dead.

P2J
December 7th, 2007, 07:06 PM
OMG, i loved the beeping of replicator ships being detected by that thing when the screen went dark. That was hilarious.

if anything it was meant to give the situation a darker feel setting up be all my sins remembered

technoextreme
December 7th, 2007, 07:07 PM
This Mortal Coil got a definite 6/5 from me. This episode is proof that SG: Atlantis is the best sci fi show on TV right now. Eat that BSG.

The story was great. I was wondering why the old uniforms were back and then it all made sense. The twist in the story was genius. Davos's vision came true, but like he said, no context, just a vision.

The acting was superb! This was a character driven story and all the actors nailed it. The paranoia the RepliTeam faced was so realistic and well done, as well as the worry and doubt after finding out their origins. Then when the real team found the doubles things just got better. The characters have really been taking an emotional beating this season and this episode just pushed it to the max. Those final scenes between McKay, Zelenka, and Sheppard really showed how deep this show can be. Looks like my theory of a psychological breakdown might be coming true.

Still, the best bit of the episode had to be the return of Torri Higginson. As much as I enjoyed SG-1, I have not like Carter being on Atlantis. Weir's semi return was great and the team's reaction to her was wonderfully done. Shame the real Weir is dead, but wow, this was the piece that had been missing from this season.

That last moment, especially the post-fade to black: uh oh. As Rodney so wonderfully put it: "Crap."
You know what. Im wondering if this ties into the season finale. Also, Im so happy. No crappy long delays between midseason episodes.

Infernorhythm
December 7th, 2007, 07:07 PM
It is sad to know that the real Weir is most likely dead.
Totally. And given the death of her clone, it looks like we'll never see her again. That really sucks. Her presence in this episode gave it something the others have been lacking.

freyr's mother
December 7th, 2007, 07:08 PM
Totally. And given the death of her clone, it looks like we'll never see her again. That really sucks. Her presence in this episode gave it something the others have been lacking.

Her clone is not dead. The jumper crashed and the nanites are inside her fixing her just like they did with cloned sheppard.

Xicer
December 7th, 2007, 07:09 PM
That was a gooooood episode. I loved the ending lol. *beep* *beep* *beep* "Holy crap..."

I think it started out a little slow but it definitely picked up. The repli-copies of the team seemed to remind me of Gholas. :p And I loved when the real team and the copies finally met. And of course, it was nice seeing Elizabeth again. This episode actually felt a lot like older SGA to me. I thought it felt a little short, but then again this is just the first of a three-parter.

Wow, we're already halfway through, can you believe that?

GateLadyM
December 7th, 2007, 07:09 PM
So TPTB are still reaching into the ancient vault to bring us old SG1 stories. Tonight it was a remake of "Tin Man" (not to be confused with the Skiffy miniseries of the same name).

Poor Weir, after this viewing I realize how much I miss her. And where was her oh-so-new-improved replacement? Gee, I didn't even miss Carter.

This wasn't the greatest, but wasn't the worst. There was way too much Keller, who I can't stand, and not enough Elizabeth, but I did like the John/Elizabeth and Teyla/Ronon walks in the woods. Ah, the "ships" that should have been. :)

P2J
December 7th, 2007, 07:10 PM
Her clone is not dead. The jumper crashed and the nanites are inside her fixing her just like they did with cloned sheppard.

yes. but the replicators might have killed then completely .. john was shot

idlewild202
December 7th, 2007, 07:10 PM
Best episode so far! Hands down. I really really like this one :D

How many noticed right off the bat that they where in their old uniforms? I didn't (mostly cuz I liked them... a heck of a lot better) until it was pointed out in the uniform.

It was so good to see Elizabeth again, I have missed her. Bummer she's a replicator now... (or at least half) But nonetheless, it was great to see her back, she belongs with the team like nothing else. :weir:

Okay... Rodney x2 was simply HILARIOUS!! I was laughing my butt off the whole time, what a great scene.

I think I like Keller better as a replicator than trying to be Carson... for once it seemed like she found her role. Didn't think that would be as a replicator though. Ah well.

At first I was wondering why Sam wasn't in this episode, then when I learned it wasn't the real Atlantis it made sense. But still... one would expect to see her in the end. It almost seems like Sheppard and Carter are co-leaders of Atlantis the way the episodes have been trading off between the two.

And.... the very end with the tracking system was great, I liked how they ended it.

Nothing really to pick apart about this episode, I just really enjoyed it. 10 out of 10 in my book :)

McKayManiacs92
December 7th, 2007, 07:11 PM
I really loved the two Mckay's, that was just perfect...but I couldn't really enjoy them because I was still in shock over the straight forward statement that the real Weir was gone!! I can't accept it! That was just wrong.....

I didn't like how this was Weir's episode of the season...I mean if it was her it was only to say she was really dead and for her "clone" to die as well! I was not very happy or impressed by that storyline aspect. If they had kept her I think it would have made more interesting stories later in the season(s).

Quinn Mallory
December 7th, 2007, 07:11 PM
How did the replicated Weir knew that the replicators are now attacking humans? I don't believe the Atlantis team knew that bit of info when Weir was captured (they only found out when "Todd" told them).

Otherwise, it was good to see Weir back although it strongly reminded of both Tin Man and Double Jeopardy from SG-1.

technoextreme
December 7th, 2007, 07:12 PM
So TPTB are still reaching into the ancient vault to bring us old SG1 stories. Tonight it was a remake of "Tin Man" (not to be confused with the Skiffy miniseries of the same name).

Guess what people. It wasn't an original concept with they wrote the story the first time.
How did the replicated Weir knew that the replicators are now attacking humans? I don't believe the Atlantis team knew that bit of info when Weir was captured (they only found out when "Todd" told them).
The replicator that created them told Weir that.

AGateFan
December 7th, 2007, 07:12 PM
Rut row shaggy………..are we to assume the truth was told and Weir is indeed dead? No S5 return as anything but a sympathetic replicator? I fear Weir fans happy, not.

But take heart Weir fans (I guess) now that shes fully replicator they can turn her into an infinite clone\Kenny like they did with Baal so we may see A LOT more Weir stories.

Take this to Atlantis? Sounds to me like they are being played. Create replicators with all the knowledge of the humans and then let them find there way back to Atlantis and follow them. Seems “too easy” and friendly replicators seem too simple. Though ascending would give them the ability to kick the crp out of the ancients in person. (end of ep—ok maybe everything is as it appears….maybe)

Leather jackets under tac vest are idiotic. Still trouble for me having any respect for Sheppard or finding him funny since they made him such a criminal sleaze ball. Will be hard for me to let that go, I actually hope hes the next one they kill off…sadly I know that wont happen. Sadly I know they have no desire to redeem him either as far as they are concerned he still a hero and a good guy. Very sad statement of humanity but I guess it means they cant get political and slam the real military for anything.

Other then that the bad uniforms and my lack of skill of “letting it go”, I really liked this episode. Kind of predictable but the replicator SGA is cool like Synthetic SG1. It fit that Ronan was the Jack who had trouble accepting his life was gone. Too bad they didn’t get the second episode so we can see them fight.

Oh.... and so the vision guy can see visions of things that happen in copy cat cities far far away. Odd that they closed that storyline out and Carter wasnt even part of it....why didn't he give the vision to Teyla or someone who would actually witness the event. I thought that was odd, but it didnt ruin the ep in anyway.

Infernorhythm
December 7th, 2007, 07:13 PM
So TPTB are still reaching into the ancient vault to bring us old SG1 stories. Tonight it was a remake of "Tin Man" (not to be confused with the Skiffy miniseries of the same name).

Poor Weir, after this viewing I realize how much I miss her. And where was her oh-so-new-improved replacement? Gee, I didn't even miss Carter.

This wasn't the greatest, but wasn't the worst. There was way too much Keller, who I can't stand, and not enough Elizabeth, but I did like the John/Elizabeth and Teyla/Ronon walks in the woods. Ah, the "ships" that should have been. :)
Yeah, the woods scene. I was wondering if they were going to do a romance scene. It would have been the perfect way for Weir to say goodbye to our Sheppard, a kiss then BOOM, blown up and shot along with the other clone team members.

Sue_Jackson
December 7th, 2007, 07:13 PM
*crying* :sheppardanime32:

No no no no no no no no no no! Elizabeth can't be dead. :( I cannot take this. Somebody tell me she's coming back. Tell me the REAL Elizabeth will be back. This cannot be happening. The real Elizabeth has to be alive. She needs to be with John. John needs her. I won't believe that she's dead. We didn't actually see her die, right? So....that can mean that the RepliKeller was wrong.




BTW.....this was sooooooo Tin Man (S1/SG-1) and Double Jeopdary (S4/SG-1). :sheppardanime31: :D

Great episode, though. :) I was on the edge of my seat the whole time. Very compelling. Love the ending with Replicator ships popping up on the monitor. Talk about foreshadowing.

Though, I think I would like a little more reaction from John about the REAL Elizabeth. I did like Radek and Rodney, though. I liked how Rodney brought up Carson. That was a nice touch. :)

technoextreme
December 7th, 2007, 07:15 PM
BTW.....this was sooooooo Tin Man (S1/SG-1). :sheppardanime31:
Stop it with this idiocy. It was a cliche before the episode even aired.

Erised
December 7th, 2007, 07:15 PM
horrible episode
No cliffhangers?

Sweetsong
December 7th, 2007, 07:16 PM
One thing I don't get, why didn't the duplicates abandon the ship, go to another planet then contact Atlantis from there? Having the replicators track the ship they stole didn't seem like a smart move.

McKayManiacs92
December 7th, 2007, 07:16 PM
BTW.....this was sooooooo Tin Man (S1/SG-1). :sheppardanime31:

except that they are "killed" in the end of this episode....yeah, I noticed that too....

Briangate78
December 7th, 2007, 07:17 PM
An amazing episode and the reason why this show is so great. The character emotions were so real not forced. It felt a team of friends for years coming to terms with a lost friend.


Also...

This is not Weir's last episode this season! ;)

Ruined_puzzle
December 7th, 2007, 07:17 PM
At least they could have let the fake!team live. You know so SOME people would be at least somewhat happy with this episode. Way to kill all my hope ptb.

majorsal
December 7th, 2007, 07:17 PM
It is sad to know that the real Weir is most likely dead.

but is this for sure or real?

i haven't seen this ep yet (will later tonight), but... WHO said the real weir is dead? could this person/thing been lying?

i can't say i'm a fan of weir - i've only seen her in 'lost city', 'new order', and the first eps of this season), but i can relate in loving a character and wanting a happy life for her/him.

maybe the real weir IS alive...



sally :)

Shan Bruce Lee
December 7th, 2007, 07:18 PM
I loved the episode, I thought it was really great and now I can't wait to see the second half of the season, but hearing Weir go into "speech mode" just reminded me why I'm so damn glad they wrote her out of the show. I just don't care about the character at all.

Aside from that the episode was awesome. Best part though was probably Ronan kicking the back of Meredith's chair in the puddle-jumper. :)

I know I'm not the only one that loved seeing the team running around on the ground dodging the aerial bombardment! It's been too long sicne I've seen that.

Erised
December 7th, 2007, 07:19 PM
Also...

This is not Weir's last episode this season! ;)
No?

garhkal
December 7th, 2007, 07:19 PM
HOLY MOLY!!! That was a GREAT episode. I really liked it. I wish the previews from last week didnt spoil it but whatchya gonna do about it. Also good views of a different ancient designed ship. Other than an Aurora class that is. They dont seem to be as big as an Aurora either. Maybe some sort of cruiser?

Beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep....

Mckay: "Oh crap."

LOLZ!

Damn skippy. I absolutely loved that line from Mccay, as well as the backround music. Reminded me of the early seasons of SG1 when we started to see the full might of the Gou'ald fleet.


This Mortal Coil got a definite 6/5 from me. This episode is proof that SG: Atlantis is the best sci fi show on TV right now. Eat that BSG.

The story was great. I was wondering why the old uniforms were back and then it all made sense. The twist in the story was genius. Davos's vision came true, but like he said, no context, just a vision.

That it did and in a way not one of us got. Though some came close by saying it was a replicator held version of atlantis getting destroyed. And i absolutely loved the meeting of the 2 teams.


The acting was superb! This was a character driven story and all the actors nailed it. The paranoia the RepliTeam faced was so realistic and well done, as well as the worry and doubt after finding out their origins. Then when the real team found the doubles things just got better. The characters have really been taking an emotional beating this season and this episode just pushed it to the max. Those final scenes between McKay, Zelenka, and Sheppard really showed how deep this show can be. Looks like my theory of a psychological breakdown might be coming true.

Yes it was outstanding. Props to both Rodney and Zalenka for pulling off that talk they had while he was working out that device. And cudos to the entire cast for imo the best episode of the entire season.


Still, the best bit of the episode had to be the return of Torri Higginson. As much as I enjoyed SG-1, I have not like Carter being on Atlantis. Weir's semi return was great and the team's reaction to her was wonderfully done. Shame the real Weir is dead, but wow, this was the piece that had been missing from this season. RIP Weir. Looks like we'll never see her again, damn.

That last moment, especially the post-fade to black: uh oh. As Rodney so wonderfully put it: "Crap."

My only hope is that the replicator-Keller was mistaken in the fate of the real Wier. Or better yet, that the repli wier could somehow be made into the new wier, since they could feasabily neutralize her nanites.



The two Mckay's was probably the best together, they kind of reminded me of all the Carters working together from "Ripple Effect." This does seem to kind of finalize Weir's departure. Sheppard saying he thought they'd bring her back, but now he realizes she's gone, kind of seems like he was not only talking about Weir, but her portrayer Torri herself.

That Mccay scene not only reminded me of Ripple Effect, but also when AU careter came over in season 3 (iirc) with Kawalski through the mirror. And i do feel that Wier gave her best effort to show a great farewell for a fine character.

As to my comments.
Loved.
1) The AU keller. She was as good as ours, and she even proved Niam right in that they can overcome their 'being flawed' ways.
2) The Replicator cruiser (those 2 near the end) man were they fine. I wonder if they were the same as we saw fighting the Dadelus in lifeline.
3) Wier's return. Though short, it was every bit as good as i was hoping.
4) Ronon and Teyla's side talk when they were out in the woods. Man was i feeling for them even if they were duplicates. But it does make me wonder, if the Repli-Ronon would stand a better chance fighting the wraith than the real one.
5) The 2 McCays. Even better than Mr and Ms miller.
6) Zalenka trying to get rodney to talk about missing carson and wier.
7) Seeing the Seers vision come true.
8) everything else.

Hates
We have to wait a month to see the next ep..

jelgate
December 7th, 2007, 07:19 PM
Jelgate's Two CentsI have to say this was an excellent episode. It seemed like Davos vision came true. I sure am going to miss the city of Atlantis, Oh wait, it was a fake Atlantis. The writer behind this slowly poked fun at us to determine what was wrong with the Atlantis team. We slowly learn that the Atlantis team and Dr. Weir are actual are the new form of Asurans. Speaking of Dr. Weir, it was such an enjoyment to see?* Torri Higginson back on the show. It may have not been the real Dr. Weir but she showed the same kind of traits I have come to expected from Weir. I orginally thought that the Asurans that are war with the Wraith created the Atlantis duplicates to try to infiltrate Atlantis. Glad to see I'm wrong. So refreshing to see the "good" Asurans were using the duplicates to learn to ascend. But the Atlantis expendation has problem. If a Asuran could enter the city, it could take on the form of anyone they please. You gotta love that little joke that the two McKay's had about the uniform. This was very much a team episode, especially for the?* duplicate Atlantis.?* Joel Godsmith had some really nice music in the background. Usually I don't listen to that but it was excellent it was hard to miss The CGI of the Asurans destroying the Puddle Jumper was amazing. Its just too bad that the duplicates had to sacrifice their lives. My fellow posters wanted to see the expedition grieving over Elizabeth.I laughed forever seeing the McKays finish each other sentences. He has finally found someone to match his genius brian Well I think they got it. Personally?* I think the Asuran Keller was lying, conidering thatHigginson has a 4th episode And finally it looks like the Asuran are building ships really fast. I can't wait to see what?* happens in BAMSR. Just by a show of hands, don't you hate it when they decide to end an episode with esentally a to be continued. I know it makes good drama but making me wait a month is just sad. I guess on the bright side, I don't have to wait a month.
QuotesMcKays(orginal):We got new uniforms, the old ones (with duplicate)bunching up on the shoulders

Ripple in Space
December 7th, 2007, 07:19 PM
As far as story goes, I think this was the best Atlantis episode by far. I for one loved the "Tin Man"/"Double Jeopardy" Arc, the latter episode more-so. And this ep kicked that whole concept up a notch, making them real doubles, and Weir the ONLY Weir left.

But, I hope that Oberoth lied to RepliKeller and the real Weir is still alive.

Lt.Colonel John Sheppard
December 7th, 2007, 07:21 PM
This episode was worth the wait. I mean it. From Start to Finish this episode was good. The Music with where The Real John Sheppard and Rodney saw elizabeth was really good. and the scene with john/elizabeth was good as well. the whole ending of this episode with the fading black was awesome and rodney saying "oh crap" was funny as well. overall 10/10. This episode really sold me on Stargate Atlantis.

FoolishPleasure
December 7th, 2007, 07:23 PM
This was just a retread of the two SG1 episodes "Tin Man" and "Double Jeopardy" - the SG1 "team" that finds out they aren't the real team. At least those episodes were interesting.

*yawns*

Elizabeth's appearance just made Carter seem that much more useless (and where was "wonder woman" anyway?). And to say Elizabeth is outright dead? Bad, just bad. The woodsy walk with Shep was nice, but. . . . *shrugs*

Nice to see Lorne, but, I dunno. This isn't the same show anymore. :S

ToasterOnFire
December 7th, 2007, 07:23 PM
Ya know, I actually thought this ep was pretty good.

EXCEPT what they did to Weir was completely, totally lame. A main character, leader of Atlantis for the past 3 seasons, killed offscreen? Pathetic. Simply pathetic. Maybe even worse than killing off Carson with a stupid exploding tumor.

Weir in s5? Yeah, if you like repli!CarterWeir. Me, not so much.

ussrelativity
December 7th, 2007, 07:23 PM
Any word on screencaps? Perhaps the CG scenes with the Asuran ships?

And also, did anyone see this episode in HD?

Shan Bruce Lee
December 7th, 2007, 07:26 PM
One thing I don't get, why didn't the duplicates abandon the ship, go to another planet then contact Atlantis from there? Having the replicators track the ship they stole didn't seem like a smart move.

They didn't actually contact Atlantis. They found an off-world team and they contacted Atlantis. Besides... if they'd done that, what whould they have used for the destraction that was necessary for the real Atlantis team to get away?

Briangate78
December 7th, 2007, 07:26 PM
This episode had me a little teary eye when Sheppard and Mckay see Weir appear on the monitor and then the last scene. I know that Weir has one more ep this season. She was amazing in this episode. She stole the show, imo. I just hope it's an indication to keep her around for many more eps. This season has been amazing so far. I hate to see the characters that made this season amazing so far, be lost. :)

Erised
December 7th, 2007, 07:28 PM
This was just a retread of the two SG1 episodes "Tin Man" and "Double Jeopardy" - the SG1 "team" that finds out they aren't the real team. At least those episodes were interesting.

*yawns*

Elizabeth's appearance just made Carter seem that much more useless (and where was "wonder woman" anyway?). And to say Elizabeth is outright dead? Bad, just bad. The woodsy walk with Shep was nice, but. . . . *shrugs*

Nice to see Lorne, but, I dunno. This isn't the same show anymore. :S

Funny I didn't even think of those episodes. I thought of repli!Carter.. haha. Now we have 3 episodes to compare this to, except that they weren't evil.

I was wondering where Carter went too.

technoextreme
December 7th, 2007, 07:29 PM
They didn't actually contact Atlantis. They found an off-world team and they contacted Atlantis. Besides... if they'd done that, what whould they have used for the destraction that was necessary for the real Atlantis team to get away?
Actually it was implied that whatever ship they used had a hyperdrive. Was the puddlejumper hypderdrive equiped?

Sweetsong
December 7th, 2007, 07:30 PM
They didn't actually contact Atlantis. They found an off-world team and they contacted Atlantis. Besides... if they'd done that, what whould they have used for the destraction that was necessary for the real Atlantis team to get away?

I thought the duplicates had stolen a ship with a hyperdrive from the ship yards the replicators had rebuilt on the replicator home world. They used a jumper for the distraction, and we know they can take jumpers through the gate. So they would have still had thier distraction ship handy.

I think the duplicates should have alterted the real Atlantis team to the fact that the replicators could be tracking the ship. Of course if they had played it safe there would have been no confrontation resulting in a dazzling end. However if these duplicates are really to be almost like the actual team themselves, it's something they should have considered before, not after the fact.

HenryHayes
December 7th, 2007, 07:30 PM
I am not believing what RepliKeller said about real Weir. There is no doubt that evil old Repli******* could just as easily had lied to Keller & the real Weir is locked up somewhere until they need her. He could have easily lied to RepliKeller so that those Repli*******s would not rescue the real Weir so that they could use her to their own advantage. Dont trust that old *******. RepliKeller did get her info from him after all.

garhkal
December 7th, 2007, 07:31 PM
...Rats posted too soon..


So TPTB are still reaching into the ancient vault to bring us old SG1 stories. Tonight it was a remake of "Tin Man" (not to be confused with the Skiffy miniseries of the same name

I did not feel it was anywhere close to Tin man. While yes there were duplicates of our favorite team, Tin man had it where they were duplicated to help an old man survive. This had them duplicated to help the Asurans ascend.


yes. but the replicators might have killed then completely .. john was shot

We saw it, but do their weapons have any more effect on the semi replicators than ours do?



At first I was wondering why Sam wasn't in this episode, then when I learned it wasn't the real Atlantis it made sense. But still... one would expect to see her in the end. It almost seems like Sheppard and Carter are co-leaders of Atlantis the way the episodes have been trading off between the two.


Same here. But i wonder why we did not see her back on the real atlantis, even if only for a glimpse before the team headed out to meet wier.


How did the replicated Weir knew that the replicators are now attacking humans? I don't believe the Atlantis team knew that bit of info when Weir was captured (they only found out when "Todd" told them).

Maybe when they got made part of her Nanites were able to glean that bit of information from the Asuran collective.



Aside from that the episode was awesome. Best part though was probably Ronan kicking the back of Meredith's chair in the puddle-jumper. :)

I know I'm not the only one that loved seeing the team running around on the ground dodging the aerial bombardment! It's been too long sicne I've seen that.

That was funny, though it looked like ronon was bored when he did it. And i agree, we have not seen a good run through a forest/open area while the baddies are shooting in a long time.


This episode had me a little teary eye when Sheppard and Mckay see Weir appear on the monitor and then the last scene. I know that Weir has one more ep this season. She was amazing in this episode. She stole the show, imo. I just hope it's an indication to keep her around for many more eps. This season has been amazing so far. I hate to see the characters that made this season amazing so far, be lost. :)


Actually it was implied that whatever ship they used had a hyperdrive. Was the puddlejumper hypderdrive equiped?

Since ours are not until McCay got all ascenddy on us in Tao, i doubt it.

Shan Bruce Lee
December 7th, 2007, 07:33 PM
Actually it was implied that whatever ship they used had a hyperdrive. Was the puddlejumper hypderdrive equiped?

Shep opened the drive pods to jam the puddle-jumper in a wedge of the Replicator ship just before it went into hyperdrive. I guess they gated out after it came out of hyperspace.

technoextreme
December 7th, 2007, 07:34 PM
Maybe when they got made part of her Nanites were able to glean that bit of information from the Asuran collective.

Didn't RepliKeller tell her explicitly when they were having their little chat?

Shep opened the drive pods to jam the puddle-jumper in a wedge of the Replicator ship just before it went into hyperdrive. I guess they gated out after it came out of hyperspace.
Where though? They popped out of Asuras. If there was an easily accessible gate wouldn't you have though Sheppard and McKay would have used it in the first episode.

ussrelativity
December 7th, 2007, 07:36 PM
How many Asuran ships were in this episode?

Sweetsong
December 7th, 2007, 07:37 PM
Shep opened the drive pods to jam the puddle-jumper in a wedge of the Replicator ship just before it went into hyperdrive. I guess they gated out after it came out of hyperspace.

That was when they hitched a ride to the replicator homeworld on the ship that had just destroyed the duplicate Atlantis. We're talking about when they stold a ship from the replicator homeworld with a hyperdrive to get relatively close to where the real Atlantis was located.

FoolishPleasure
December 7th, 2007, 07:37 PM
Funny I didn't even think of those episodes. I thought of repli!Carter.. haha. Now we have 3 episodes to compare this to, except that they weren't evil.

I was wondering where Carter went too.

That was "Gemini" with FakeRepliCarter. Gee, this makes the fourth time the writers have done copies of teams, and that isn't even taking in AU episodes. Real creative, eh?

Too bad they didn't take RepliKeller back. At least she didn't whine and cry like the real Keller.

jelgate
December 7th, 2007, 07:38 PM
How many Asuran ships were in this episode?Two Auroa class ships were seen on screnn and there were too many to count at the end of the episode. There was also the fake Atlantis

technoextreme
December 7th, 2007, 07:38 PM
How many Asuran ships were in this episode?
Three were seen in the episode. Over a hundred were probably identified at the end.
That was "Gemini" with FakeRepliCarter. Gee, this makes the fourth time the writers have done copies of teams, and that isn't even taking in AU episodes. Real creative, eh?

Too bad they didn't take RepliKeller back. At least she didn't whine and cry like the real Keller.
When you have a species that is capable of duplicating mater on the cellular level I expect it to happen. And as I said before your whinnying about a cliche. As long as the episode is excellent I don't care.

Shan Bruce Lee
December 7th, 2007, 07:38 PM
Where though? They popped out of Asuras. If there was an easily accessible gate wouldn't you have though Sheppard and McKay would have used it in the first episode.

Honestly I don't remember seeing where the Replicator ship came out of hyperspace. All I remember is Shep saying they could hitch a ride on the replicruiser before he jammed it into place with the drive pods. Everything after that is just speculation on my part.

ViperPC
December 7th, 2007, 07:40 PM
A very good ep....but what about them new cruisers one of which shot down the jumper......never seen them before?

P2J
December 7th, 2007, 07:41 PM
A very good ep....but what about them new cruisers one of which shot down the jumper......never seen them before?
well if you are ging to fight a war might as well make a new shiny toy to fight the war

Shan Bruce Lee
December 7th, 2007, 07:42 PM
A very good ep....but what about them new cruisers one of which shot down the jumper......never seen them before?

yeah but I hope we get to see a lot more of them. More ships = better.

ussrelativity
December 7th, 2007, 07:42 PM
Three were seen in the episode. Over a hundred were probably identified at the end.

:eek:

.........................................................


.........................................................


.........................................................


...... Uh-huh.

Sweetsong
December 7th, 2007, 07:42 PM
Honestly I don't remember seeing where the Replicator ship came out of hyperspace. All I remember is Shep saying they could hitch a ride on the replicruiser before he jammed it into place with the drive pods. Everything after that is just speculation on my part.

You missed the part where the replicator ship arrived at Asuras then, Mckay verified it was the replicator home world and then they saw all the ship building sites they had destroyed in First Strike were up and running again, that's when Sheppard suggested they steal a ship from there with a hyperdrive.

ussrelativity
December 7th, 2007, 07:45 PM
I remember reading JM's blog, and with him talking about TMC, and the vis-effects crew and the shots of "flawless silver ships jumping to hyperspace" or something along that line. Is that what occurred in the final production?

ViperPC
December 7th, 2007, 07:45 PM
Well so far we've seen two atlantian ships the aurora class and the jumpers....these were smaller but looked like they could hold their own in a fight

technoextreme
December 7th, 2007, 07:45 PM
Honestly I don't remember seeing where the Replicator ship came out of hyperspace. All I remember is Shep saying they could hitch a ride on the replicruiser before he jammed it into place with the drive pods. Everything after that is just speculation on my part.
True. It is also speculation on my part also. If they had a hyperspace capable ship you would have thought they used it.

Infernorhythm
December 7th, 2007, 07:46 PM
Three were seen in the episode. Over a hundred were probably identified at the end.

*BEEP**BEEP**BEEP**BEEP**BEEP**BEEP**BEEP**BEEP**BEEP*..........


"Oh crap."

Landers
December 7th, 2007, 07:46 PM
Terrible way to write out Elizabeth! Off screen? Fake Keller just says she died months ago? What a boring and depressing episode. I'll watch when we get Carson back for his two-parter, but I'm done with this show.

Jackie
December 7th, 2007, 07:46 PM
the ep was alright IMO...little lacking though. Could of had more screen time for TH...I think she should have been in more scenes considering she was a guest star and a MIA starring character. Not enough closer for her character and certainly not enough time for the copies to really explore their own emotions.

The ep could have been a two parter--with more reasons as to why the replicators were full of hatred and what it must be like to find out your a clone and the original is dead.

there was enough development to give the clones a nice and sound ending where they do find someplace to live and remain in contact with SGA. Weir was far from being alone as a copy--I would have liked a solid ending that didn't leave you wondering if the copies died or not.

the ep was rather predictable, little recycled eps in it like tin man and other mentioned above.

did kind of reminded me just how much Atlantis is lacking with no Dr. Weir minding the storefront.

ViperPC
December 7th, 2007, 07:46 PM
yeah but I hope we get to see a lot more of them. More ships = better.

Better for who...they are building them to fight the wraith and now they are killing humans.....????

ussrelativity
December 7th, 2007, 07:48 PM
the ep was alright IMO...little lacking though. Could of had more screen time for TH...I think she should have been in more scenes considering she was a guest star and a MIA starring character. Not enough closer for her character and certainly not enough time for the copies to really explore their own emotions.

The ep could have been a two parter--with more reasons as to why the replicators were full of hatred and what it must be like to find out your a clone and the original is dead.

there was enough development to give the clones a nice and sound ending where they do find someplace to live and remain in contact with SGA. Weir was far from being alone as a copy--I would have liked a solid ending that didn't leave you wondering if the copies died or not.

the ep was rather predictable, little recycled eps in it like tin man and other mentioned above.

did kind of reminded me just how much Atlantis is lacking with no Dr. Weir minding the storefront.

There is a second part coming in about three weeks, with a third part the week after that one.

Shan Bruce Lee
December 7th, 2007, 07:49 PM
Better for who...they are building them to fight the wraith and now they are killing humans.....????

lol I just meant for the show.

Briangate78
December 7th, 2007, 07:50 PM
the ep was alright IMO...little lacking though. Could of had more screen time for TH...I think she should have been in more scenes considering she was a guest star and a MIA starring character. Not enough closer for her character and certainly not enough time for the copies to really explore their own emotions.



For the screentime Weir had I think she stole the show. She was amazing. I for one am not counting her out. Who knows if Replikeller knew the truth. Oberoth could still have her captured. This is not her last ep.

prion
December 7th, 2007, 07:51 PM
So TPTB are still reaching into the ancient vault to bring us old SG1 stories. Tonight it was a remake of "Tin Man" (not to be confused with the Skiffy miniseries of the same name).

Poor Weir, after this viewing I realize how much I miss her. And where was her oh-so-new-improved replacement? Gee, I didn't even miss Carter.

This wasn't the greatest, but wasn't the worst. There was way too much Keller, who I can't stand, and not enough Elizabeth, but I did like the John/Elizabeth and Teyla/Ronon walks in the woods. Ah, the "ships" that should have been. :)

I'm glad I'm the only one who was going "Hmm, this is just like Jeff King's TIN MAN (the SG1 episode, not the miniseries scifi keeps airing). By redoing TIN MAN, it was obvious where it was going to lead. Humans would live, duplicates would be toast (or nearly so, but since the dupes are humans with nanites in 'em, they can be killed, so I sorta think John might be toast).

Gotta admit, the only reason I missed Carter is that as leader she should be around, but yes, seeing Elizabeth made me miss her more. And it sucks that the real Weir is dead (if RepliKeller is to be believed). There's always the miniscule chance Weir is alive, but I doubt it.

Biggest quibbles. how dumb is our team? They steal a replicator ship, and they've GOT to know it has a RepliLoJack in it and take it to a planet where they've got a team. would it not have made more sense to abandon the ship on an uninhabited planet with a gate, and then go through that gate a few times till got to that planet? This is almost as bad as Rodney and Barrett running off to rescue Jeannie last week and going "oh, we dont need backup."



But take hear Weir fans (I guess) now that shes fully replicator they can turn her into an infinite clone\Kenny like they did with Baal so we may see A LOT more Weir stories.

Take this to Atlantis? Sounds to me like they are being played. Create replicators with all the knowledge of the humans and then let them find there way back to Atlantis and follow them. Seems “too easy” and friendly replicators seem too simple. Though ascending would give them the ability to kick the crp out of the ancients in person. (end of ep—ok maybe everything is as it appears….maybe)

Leather jackets under tac vest are idiotic. Still trouble for me having any respect for Sheppard or finding him funny since they made him such a criminal sleaze ball. Will be hard for me to let that go, I actually hope hes the next one they kill off…sadly I know that wont happen. Sadly I know they have no desire to redeem him either as far as they are concerned he still a hero and a good guy. Very sad statement of humanity but I guess it means they cant get political and slam the real military for anything.


Since they couldn't detect the RepliLoJack on the ship, why should they think that the HolyGrail of RepliDevices wouldn't have a tracker too? In a case like this, paranoia should have reigned and they they should have taken the device and a laptop or whatever was necessary to one of their alpha site backups...

I agree that leather jackets under tac vests is just plain stupid, not to mention must be darn hot and hard to move around with as it would be constricting. As for the Sheppard 'criminal sleaze' thing, well, the writers dealt with this in the last scene of "Miller's Crossing" and as usual, have forgotten it.

best scene in this episode. Zelenka and Rodney talking about WEir at the end, and Rodney finding it wonderful that he can lose himself in his work so he doens't have to think about it, and mentioning Carson.

It was a good episode, but alas, too comparable to SG1's TIN MAN and even having avoided most spoilers on this episode, Skiffy just blew it with their commercials.

However, we did get that cool shot at the end of the psuedo RepliShep looking up from the jumper dash, blood on his face that then dissolves. Cool...

But all the Repliships popping up like cockroaches sort of left me queasy in that we'll probably get more replicator storylines in the future.... I'd rather get back to the wraith. Speaking of which, wonder how the Common Ground wraith is doing...

Ruined_puzzle
December 7th, 2007, 07:52 PM
Terrible way to write out Elizabeth! Off screen? Fake Keller just says she died months ago? What a boring and depressing episode. I'll watch when we get Carson back for his two-parter, but I'm done with this show.

It was SO bad. It was depressing to me but there was not enough time to see actual emotions from everyone. I would have like to see how repli!John and repli!Ronon reacted to Elizabeth. It felt too rushed or something I don't know. Something was lacking, it was just so contrived.

Vala_M
December 7th, 2007, 07:54 PM
What a great episode! Things went a little slow in the beginning, why did the writers kill Dr. Weir off? That is so stupid! So I guess we're never getting her back now. I was hoping that the copy was the real Dr. Weir but they just told her that so she wouldn't fight back but after she got killed in the jumper, I guess that she really was a copy. What a pathetic end to a great character! I'm glad Davos's vision about Atlantis being destroyed was really the Asuran copy of Atlantis. And apparently, the Asurans were forbidden from assuming the form of any living human, until now. I always wondered why there were never any copies of the team made from the beginning encounters with the Asurans. How did the Asurans construct actual flesh and blood copies of the team? Did they have DNA? Does it really take a ZPM's worth of power to create 5 people? That was kind of odd. Nice to see that the Asurans are actually onscreen mentioned to using Aurora class warships, was it just me or did the other warships in orbit over the meeting planet look like the warship from "Lifeline" just from a different angle? How many Auroras do the Asurans actually have? How will all of those ever get destroyed? I'm surprised that no "To be continued..." text appeared, that's a first for Stargate.

I hate to say this but the whole tracking device of the Auroras and there being hundreds of them onscreen reminded me of "Reckoning" when Jacob brought the SGC that Goa'uld mothership tracking device. Sounds like another ripoff point.

Apparently, the real McKay was also going to do that gate streamlining progam, I hope the copy of McKay warned him against it!

Vala,

technoextreme
December 7th, 2007, 07:54 PM
Since they couldn't detect the RepliLoJack on the ship, why should they think that the HolyGrail of RepliDevices wouldn't have a tracker too? In a case like this, paranoia should have reigned and they they should have taken the device and a laptop or whatever was necessary to one of their alpha site backups...

Because the RepliWeller gave it to them. Obviously RepliWeller had the intention not to get caught. I think the only reason they did was because of the power limitations of having a city ship jump to hyperspace.

BubblingOverWithIdeas
December 7th, 2007, 07:54 PM
This episode was very good. I'm only unhappy about the predictable killing-off of the other team. Obviously they couldn't keep them around in Atlantis on a long-term basis due to the involved way that scenes with multiples of an actor have to be shot, but they could have remained alive somewhere for possible future appearances. At least we have fanfic.

I'm glad that Weir has one more episode in this season, that points to the original being still alive or another twin having been made. Unless her appearance will be in a flashback, which I hope is not the case.

These duplicates were different from all the previous types. Being fully human, they were basically clones/identical twins of the team (albeit instagrown and with implanted memories). I find that interesting.

I was surprised that this wasn't a traditional two-parter with a cliffhanger.

jelgate
December 7th, 2007, 07:56 PM
I was surprised that this wasn't a traditional two-parter with a cliffhanger.I still see it as a cliffhanger. Its like Camelot/Flesh and Blood. They didn't have the to bad continued but they felt like cliffhangers

prion
December 7th, 2007, 07:59 PM
Because the RepliWeller gave it to them. Obviously RepliWeller had the intention not to get caught. I think the only reason they did was because of the power limitations of having a city ship jump to hyperspace.

Well, that's what RepliWeir SAID.... the thing is, they did put a lot of trust in her when honestly, a little healthy paranoia would have been a lot better ;)

FoolishPleasure
December 7th, 2007, 07:59 PM
It was SO bad. It was depressing to me but there was not enough time to see actual emotions from everyone. I would have like to see how repli!John and repli!Ronon reacted to Elizabeth. It felt too rushed or something I don't know. Something was lacking, it was just so contrived.

There was too much time in the first 20 minutes wasted with all the paranoia between characters. More time should have been spent with the RepliTeam wrestling with their feelings. "Tin Man" did this whole scenario 100% better. You, and the "real" team truly felt for the fakes in that show. This episode felt like an unfinished draft.

P2J
December 7th, 2007, 08:00 PM
I was surprised that this wasn't a traditional two-parter with a cliffhanger.

i think there knew going into it that scifi was not going to make the fans wait 20 years for the second half this year

Ruined_puzzle
December 7th, 2007, 08:03 PM
There was too much time in the first 20 minutes wasted with all the paranoia between characters. More time should have been spent with the RepliTeam wrestling with their feelings. "Tin Man" did this whole scenario 100% better. You, and the "real" team truly felt for the fakes in that show. This episode felt like an unfinished draft.

ITA. When Elizabeth finally showed up I wall all how is this episode going to finish so fast and then there were like 5 minutes left and there was still so much in my mind that needed to be said and done. Then of course oh yeah let's have Elizabeth sacrifice herself again.

FoolishPleasure
December 7th, 2007, 08:05 PM
I'm glad Davos's vision about Atlantis being destroyed was really the Asuran copy of Atlantis.

That bothers me. Davos was showing people a vision from their own lives and he showed the Atlantis destruction to Carter. Carter wasn't even in this episode and had nothing to do with the destruction, nor was she there, so why didn't Davos show this to Sheppard? It had absolutely nothing to do with Carter, or actually, it had nothing to do with ANY of our real team! Davos saw a vision of what was going to happen to a bunch of Replicators. WTH???

Maybe we should just file this in the ever-expanding pile of SGA plot holes?

ladyjanus
December 7th, 2007, 08:05 PM
Oooooooooohhhh.....I can't wait until the fan fiction writers start in on this one.

I would have loved to have seen some more emotion from the real team as they learn that Weir is dead, has been dead for several months. (But then, who's to say she really is dead?) I was hoping really hard as the ep unfolded that the five of them would at least get a chance to say goodbye to each other and get some closure. I know I would have loved some closure myself, as a fan and loyal audience member...

Oh well...great episode, otherwise. Even with the glaring holes in the plot....I'd give it a solid 8/10 cuz twice the Shepherd goes a long, long way with me...

ladyjanus

jelgate
December 7th, 2007, 08:08 PM
That bothers me.?* Davos was showing people a vision from their own lives and he showed the Atlantis destruction to Carter.?*?* Carter wasn't even in this episode and had nothing to do with the destruction, nor was she there, so why didn't Davos show this to Sheppard??*?* It had absolutely nothing to do with Carter, or actually, it?* had nothing to do with ANY of our real team!?* Davos saw a vision of what was going to happen to a bunch of Replicators.?* WTH????*?* It was never shown to Davos that the Atlantis team were Asurans. He probably thought it was Atlantis being destroyed and not a fake Atlantis which is why he told the leader of Atlantis what he saw

ussrelativity
December 7th, 2007, 08:08 PM
Oooooooooohhhh.....I can't wait until the fan fiction writers start in on this one.


It's going to be near next to impossible to keep writing my fan fiction and have it as accurate to the show as possible.

Reichiru
December 7th, 2007, 08:17 PM
It's going to be near next to impossible to keep writing my fan fiction and have it as accurate to the show as possible.
I wonder if someone is going to start a virtual season 5 to bring Weir back for good. :weiranime17: All I can say is I hope TPTB are just screwing with our heads over this Weir thing. But I hope they realize how terribly evil they are being.

prion
December 7th, 2007, 08:18 PM
Oooooooooohhhh.....I can't wait until the fan fiction writers start in on this one.

I would have loved to have seen some more emotion from the real team as they learn that Weir is dead, has been dead for several months. (But then, who's to say she really is dead?) I was hoping really hard as the ep unfolded that the five of them would at least get a chance to say goodbye to each other and get some closure. I know I would have loved some closure myself, as a fan and loyal audience member...


Yeah, it's tough to know if Weir is REALLY dead, but as far as Shep, Rodney, etc, are concerned, Weir is dead, and I would have loved to have seen reaction from them and the rest. We did get that neat little scene at the end with Radek and Rodney, but sigh, no, you're going to have to wait for fanfic for more resolution.

Oh, and I must admit I loved the stick fighting scene between Ronon and Shep. Whoa, that was good!



That bothers me. Davos was showing people a vision from their own lives and he showed the Atlantis destruction to Carter. Carter wasn't even in this episode and had nothing to do with the destruction, nor was she there, so why didn't Davos show this to Sheppard? It had absolutely nothing to do with Carter, or actually, it had nothing to do with ANY of our real team! Davos saw a vision of what was going to happen to a bunch of Replicators. WTH???

Maybe we should just file this in the ever-expanding pile of SGA plot holes?

In which volume? ;) I think TPTB are just going to call it a "plot twist'. *cough*


There was too much time in the first 20 minutes wasted with all the paranoia between characters. More time should have been spent with the RepliTeam wrestling with their feelings. "Tin Man" did this whole scenario 100% better. You, and the "real" team truly felt for the fakes in that show. This episode felt like an unfinished draft.

And because SG1 did "Tin Man," many fans who have seen both shows will see the obvious comparisons, but for SGA fans only who didn't bother with SG1, it's new territory (although I'm sure it's been done on one of the TREKs). But on the other hand, the plot could have been the replicators were creating this all in the team's mind as well (I avoided the bigger spiolers on this episode and plan to avoid 'em for the second part too)

Irish Eyes
December 7th, 2007, 08:18 PM
Well, I don't think the real Weir is dead. Repli!Keller said they were studying the dups for their humanity and their "soul." The only way they could try to duplicate those qualities is through the real Weir. So either Repli!Keller is lying or she had been lied to. Somewhere the real Elizabeth is being kept alive so she can be studied some more.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

Erised
December 7th, 2007, 08:23 PM
That was "Gemini" with FakeRepliCarter. Gee, this makes the fourth time the writers have done copies of teams, and that isn't even taking in AU episodes. Real creative, eh?

Too bad they didn't take RepliKeller back. At least she didn't whine and cry like the real Keller.

LOL! I know! Replace her! hahaha ;)

Infernorhythm
December 7th, 2007, 08:26 PM
Got to admit, I laughed my head off when realSheppard commented "Last time I saw a copy of myself, I got my assed kicked". Classic.

HenryHayes
December 7th, 2007, 08:27 PM
Got to admit, I laughed my head off when realSheppard commented "Last time I saw a copy of myself, I got my assed kicked". Classic.

I believe he said "I kicked my own ass"

SMB_BOOKS
December 7th, 2007, 08:28 PM
For those of you who visit JM's blog, I'm going to repost what I sent to Joe here in the discussion thread.

I'm sorry, but I just don't have the energy or the heart to retool and rephrase right now. This says it all for me anyway....



Joe,

Man, where do I start?

Losing Elizabeth once wasn't enough? We had to lose her twice?

It was incredible to see Torri on screen again. She was PHENOMENAL in this episode. Every scene reminded me of how much depth of feeling and character Torri can portray in every scene she's in.

And, seeing the "copies" of the team struggle with their identity and the real team creep out with coming face to face with themselves were interesting character moments. Rodney's admission that it was "Carson all over again" and that he wasn't ready to "deal with it" and then John saying he was going to box up Elizabeth's stuff and send it back to Earth - it was like, okay, everyone is giving up, it's all over. She's dead. All the hope, all the faith, all the possibility - squat, zip, nada, done. Broke my heart.

The story had great potential. I was hoping against hope for some dramatic reveal at the end that would make it all make sense. Nope, not even a whizzo button for Weir fans.

For crying out loud, Joe, we have to go through the whole experience of losing Elizabeth again?

The knife in the gut is twisting pretty good right about now.

No clue how she is supposed to be in another episode yet this season. Considering she's apparently been killed off twice now. What, another repli-Weir? A flashback? Repli-Keller was lying and the real Liz is still alive? A lost video message from Elizabeth we never got to see before? Did the original Weir ascend and will come back? Hell, did organic Repli-Weir ascend and will come back?

Problem is, Joe, I'm not sure I can hang in there any more for this ride. Roller coasters always did make me sick to my stomach.

Understand, Joe, I wrote this immediately after TMC aired. I was THRILLED to see Torri again on the show. After it's all said and done, now I don't know what to think.

Somehow, I don't think I'm the only fan standing at the crossroads right now.

SMB_BOOKS

Infernorhythm
December 7th, 2007, 08:28 PM
I believe he said "I kicked my own ass"
Yeah, my mistake.

BerrySciFi
December 7th, 2007, 08:28 PM
I liked this episode. I liked it even more the first time I saw it, when it was SG-1's Tin Man. TH has said that she would be in 4 episodes this season- and two of those appearances would be minor. She was in Adrift a little bit, Lifeline and This Mortal Coil a lot. So that leaves a flashback or something equally inane. I really think TPTB made a grave mistake putting Weir in this episode. I was once again reminded how much better SGA is when she is a regular character. Without her, the show is just not as engaging. Not a good way to treat a popular character, PTB. I can't say I'm surprised that the ratings are going down the drain.

ColCaldwell
December 7th, 2007, 08:39 PM
Is it just me or is the season getting better as it progresses? I cant wait for Sins at the beginning of the year. With the return of the Daedalus and Caldwell fighting alongside Apollo. OMG!

ussrelativity
December 7th, 2007, 08:42 PM
I wonder if someone is going to start a virtual season 5 to bring Weir back for good. :weiranime17:


Actually, I already did.

Shan Bruce Lee
December 7th, 2007, 08:43 PM
Is it just me or is the season getting better as it progresses? I cant wait for Sins at the beginning of the year. With the return of the Daedalus and Caldwell fighting alongside Apollo. OMG!

Yes it has and yeah - I've been waiting for more Caldwell. Not only because he's an awesome character but he brings his awesome ship with him every time and that always means awesome space battles...

Ruined_puzzle
December 7th, 2007, 08:43 PM
For those of you who visit JM's blog, I'm going to repost what I sent to Joe here in the discussion thread.

I'm sorry, but I just don't have the energy or the heart to retool and rephrase right now. This says it all for me anyway....

I <3 you.

FireCat
December 7th, 2007, 08:52 PM
What a bizarre episode.

The first half was all about paranoia, ala "Invasion of the Body Snatchers", and then suddenly it becomes "TinMan"/"Double Jeopardy". Very jarring, and dysfunctional.

It was good to see Weir, but instead of giving fans closure, it showcased how well she is liked (and missed) by her team, and with no Carter in sight, it left this viewer with regret that she (Weir) is gone. It also showed how glaringly boring Carter has become.

I hope this isn't the end of Weir. If this really is the end of her, she certainly deserved something better than this train wreck.

KiLL3r
December 7th, 2007, 08:54 PM
great episode. reminded me of the sg1 ep where the clones of themselves start going off on missions and daniel j gets his head shot off :P

Traveler Enroute1
December 7th, 2007, 08:55 PM
That bothers me. Davos was showing people a vision from their own lives and he showed the Atlantis destruction to Carter. Carter wasn't even in this episode and had nothing to do with the destruction, nor was she there, so why didn't Davos show this to Sheppard? It had absolutely nothing to do with Carter, or actually, it had nothing to do with ANY of our real team! Davos saw a vision of what was going to happen to a bunch of Replicators. WTH???

Maybe we should just file this in the ever-expanding pile of SGA plot holes?

The same thought occurred to me, FoolishPleasure. I'm not sure if it's a plot hole or something planted for the viewers to relate to later. As in,this vision being relayed to the current Atlantis team later, where Carter is present to verify this account. Whoa, I'm giving credit where it may not be due; still my mind's reaching to fill in this anomaly of fact.

Then I wondered if this is a set-up ep; meaning there never was a "real " team here. When the lights went out at the conclusion I thought it all came full circle, and the "test" was beginning again. Eventually I suppose if this is so, they will meet the real team. Carter may be the glitch in their plans whatever they are, since she didn't show up in the replicated team members' memories. It would have been unrealistic if Carter wasn't there to debrief them when the "real" team returned from being captives of their replicators. (My edit: On review, the scene blacked out, not the Atlantis lights! But Carter's absence here is still odd.)

Just sayin', ok, I'll stop re-writing the ep. Gave myself (or anyone, feel free) a plot bunny! I'm a bit confused still, and upset that Weir may be dead. Or not. I loved Weir; a pity and bit of a waste. :( I need sleep to think on this more.

jds1982
December 7th, 2007, 08:55 PM
And because SG1 did "Tin Man," many fans who have seen both shows will see the obvious comparisons, but for SGA fans only who didn't bother with SG1, it's new territory (although I'm sure it's been done on one of the TREKs). But on the other hand, the plot could have been the replicators were creating this all in the team's mind as well (I avoided the bigger spiolers on this episode and plan to avoid 'em for the second part too)

I know Voyager did an episode that was very similar.

SaberBlade
December 7th, 2007, 08:57 PM
I must admit, that as the first or a two parter, I was sadly disappointed.

Don't get me wrong, I loved the episode, but it was seriously lacking a decent cliffhanger. The episode felt more like a standalone. As I expected, the Repliclones died (apparently, if the nanites are useful they'll be back) saving the originals, both McKay's got on great and I loved their interaction but I disappointed with how the first half of the episode seemed predictable with the whole thing being a recreation.

I was surprised to see the Seer's vision come true. Although it was predicted, I didn't expect his powers to be that powerful that he could pick up things on other worlds.

I will say however that I am seriously disappointed with the Asurans. They make Lantean technology look so weak. The jumper took two direct hits without shields and still managed to land. They wanted to destroy Replantis and could only fire like 4 drones at a time, hell they even missed two running targets. They should work on upgrading their ability to decently control drones because if that was a human mind, completely different scenario.

Shan Bruce Lee
December 7th, 2007, 09:00 PM
it was good to see Weir, but instead of giving fans closure, it showcased how well she is liked (and missed) by her team, and with no Carter in sight, it left this viewer with regret that she (Weir) is gone. It also showed how glaringly boring Carter has become.



You think Carter is boring? I'd rather see the banter between her and Meredith than listen to Weir giving some sappy speach over the entercom that takes up half the episode everytime something bad happens.

That's all seeing Weir reminded me of in this episode. How every time she goes into "speech mode" the tone of every sentence sounds like a question. She's like the authoritative teacher that nobody liked in high school. At least to me anyway.

FireCat
December 7th, 2007, 09:00 PM
great episode. reminded me of the sg1 ep where the clones of themselves start going off on missions and daniel j gets his head shot off :P

Copying old SG1 episodes makes this a great episode? Usually when writers start plagiarising its because they are suffering writer's block or just don't have the creativity necessary to complete the job. Maybe this was one episode that should have gone to the "round file".

daniel9
December 7th, 2007, 09:01 PM
so since it was mentioned earlier in this topic that weir appears in more eps does this mean she ascended? which is why the asurans are so interested in doing this and believing they can actually do it?

Shan Bruce Lee
December 7th, 2007, 09:03 PM
I was surprised to see the Seer's vision come true. Although it was predicted, I didn't expect his powers to be that powerful that he could pick up things on other worlds.

I could be wrong but I think he said something int he episode about not being able to choose what he saw.

jelgate
December 7th, 2007, 09:04 PM
Copying old SG1 episodes makes this a great episode??*?* Usually when writers start plagiarising its because they are suffering writer's block or just don't have the creativity necessary to complete the job.?*?* Maybe this was one episode that should have gone to the "round file".Thats like saying Point of View is a rehash There But The Grace of Gods becuase it deals with alternate realities and Moebius is a ripoff of 1969 because it deals with time travel. The only similarities are a duplicate team

Shan Bruce Lee
December 7th, 2007, 09:07 PM
Thats like saying Point of View is a rehash There But The Grace of Gods becuase it deals with alternate realities and Moebius is a ripoff of 1969 because it deals with time travel. The only similarities are a duplicate team

great point

Hyperspace
December 7th, 2007, 09:09 PM
Why did they have to kill Dr. Weir off, off-screen? I am very disappointed in this.

Chevron 1
December 7th, 2007, 09:11 PM
Problem is, Joe, I'm not sure I can hang in there any more for this ride. Roller coasters always did make me sick to my stomach.

Understand, Joe, I wrote this immediately after TMC aired. I was THRILLED to see Torri again on the show. After it's all said and done, now I don't know what to think.

Somehow, I don't think I'm the only fan standing at the crossroads right now.

You're not alone.

I haven't posted in years here on Gateworld, but this episode has forced me to get my lightning bolts out.

It was good to see Torri again. To me, she made Stargate Atlantis appointment television. And now, with tonight's fate revealed, however unclear, it feels finite for some reason.

When they lost Elizabeth, they lost me.

And to be honest, I don't know if I can do this anymore either. As of right now SA is just another show. I wish them well, but it's not the same anymore. With Elizabeth gone, I just don't see the point.

:(

Briangate78
December 7th, 2007, 09:13 PM
Why did they have to kill Dr. Weir off, off-screen? I am very disappointed in this.

Who says she got Killer off? Are you going to believe a replicator? ;)

Lord batchi ball
December 7th, 2007, 09:15 PM
This was a decent episode. It answered quite a few questions, like Wier is dead, the Reps have two kinds of ships, one Aurora and anther smaller one and they use drones.

This episode kept me interested from start to finish but Im not going wow, its just decent.

The two rodneys was very interesting, also the fact that they came up with the same ideas.

When Sheppard figured out that somthing was wrong I was about to turn to somthing else because I did not want to watch anther "infection" episode but then it turn out not to be.

So all in all a pretty good episode:D

Shan Bruce Lee
December 7th, 2007, 09:17 PM
The two rodneys was very interesting, also the fact that they came up with the same ideas.


I loved that part. That was hilarious.

Chailyn
December 7th, 2007, 09:20 PM
I'm not sure. There were some things that I liked about this episode, but other things that were meh. I agree with others who have pointed out the pacing issues. It really felt off in this ep. The first half hour seemed to drag and could've been summed up a lot faster. More time could have been devoted to the fallout instead of squeezing so much into the final half hour. The second half was stuffed with: finding "Weir", team realizing they're copies, learning about the replicator "resistance", escaping from the replicators, hijacking a ship, "Atlantis" is destroyed, teams meet up, question of "what is life" is raised, new tech is given, and copies save the day. Whew! That's a lot to even type! Compare that to the beginning and the script is clearly bottom heavy.

Also, maybe it's bad, but I found myself more interested in the replicator team than our team. :S To struggle with one's identity is a fundamental problem. I kept wondering what the copy Teyla would think once she learned about "her people". I don't know. I just really liked the dynamic of that team, Weir included. She came off as authoritative and believable. I was surprised how much I missed that and I'm not even a Weir fan. I hope they somehow made it out. I will be disappointed if it ends in such a cliche way for them, ie "real" humans live, "fake" ones die.

Of course, there were plenty of moments that I liked. The team finding out they're copies was good, and I really liked Keller and Lorne. :) I hope we see more from the Replicator resistance in the future. Even though it's very simliar, it's kind of like the Tok'ra. I like the thought of some interesting "allies" out there.

Also, I hope Teyla tells the team about her pregnancy soon. She's obviously showing in these eps. It's going to start to get really unrealistic if the characters keep ignoring her obvious state. I mean, these people can spot alien technology, but they can't recognize a pregnant woman? I really thought she'd get more story time after 'Missing'.

scholar
December 7th, 2007, 09:22 PM
The two rodneys was very interesting, also the fact that they came up with the same ideas.

Was a pretty cool scene. Be real interesting to put the two of them in the same room as Jeannie... :cool:

BerrySciFi
December 7th, 2007, 09:24 PM
Thats like saying Point of View is a rehash There But The Grace of Gods becuase it deals with alternate realities and Moebius is a ripoff of 1969 because it deals with time travel. The only similarities are a duplicate team


A duplicate team that conveniently shows up just in time to die saving the real team- in the proess showing the real team that the duplicate team was more human than we all thought. Yea, not similar at all. I wonder which SG-1 episode will be regurgitated next? My guess is Abyss, with Shep playing the part of O'Neill. But WITHOUT an ascended Daniel-type character, so the episodes will be REALLY different!

Lord batchi ball
December 7th, 2007, 09:29 PM
Also, maybe it's bad, but I found myself more interested in the replicator team than our team. :S To struggle with one's identity is a fundamental problem. I kept wondering what the copy Teyla would think once she learned about "her people". I don't know. I just really liked the dynamic of that team, Weir included. She came off as authoritative and believable. I was surprised how much I missed that and I'm not even a Weir fan. I hope they somehow made it out. I will be disappointed if it ends in such a cliche way for them, ie "real" humans live, "fake" ones die.

Of course, there were plenty of moments that I liked. The team finding out they're copies was good, and I really liked Keller and Lorne. :) I hope we see more from the Replicator resistance in the future. Even though it's very simliar, it's kind of like the Tok'ra. I like the thought of some interesting "allies" out there.

I was also interested in team clone, but i think were supposed to be, they are essentially the originals but they happen to be made by Reps in stead of mom and dad. Plus they took up a large segment of the time so...

I liked the fact that the reps would be able to split off and build a city and not be found.

The best part of the whole show would have been at the end when the Reps entered the crashed jumper and John popped up. That was sweet!!

BerrySciFi
December 7th, 2007, 09:31 PM
Who says she got Killer off? Are you going to believe a replicator? ;)


No, but I believe TH when she says she has NOT been approached about her availability for SGA season 5. Weir's gone.

jelgate
December 7th, 2007, 09:38 PM
A duplicate team that conveniently shows up just in time to die saving the real team- in the proess showing the real team that the duplicate team was more human than we all thought. Yea, not similar at all. I wonder which SG-1 episode will be regurgitated next? My guess is Abyss, with Shep playing the part of O'Neill. But WITHOUT an ascended Daniel-type character, so the episodes will be REALLY different!
BAMSR has a space battle. It must be a rip off of Lsot City (end sarcasm)

Chailyn
December 7th, 2007, 09:42 PM
I was also interested in team clone, but i think were supposed to be, they are essentially the originals but they happen to be made by Reps in stead of mom and dad. Plus they took up a large segment of the time so...

I liked the fact that the reps would be able to split off and build a city and not be found.

The best part of the whole show would have been at the end when the Reps entered the crashed jumper and John popped up. That was sweet!!

Yeah, I really liked John at the end too!

I don't know. I think I was also more attracted to the copy team because it could have offered a completely different, almost AU storyline. To be honest, besides a handful of eps in the beginning of the season, I've been rather indifferent to S4 lately. I barely remember it's on half the time. At this point, I would almost prefer to watch a TV show based on the adventures of a rogue, human-replicator team. ;)

BerrySciFi
December 7th, 2007, 09:46 PM
BAMSR has a space battle. It must be a rip off of Lsot City (end sarcasm)



Who can say- Be All My Sins Remembered hasn't aired yet. (My sarcasm never ends.)

ladyjanus
December 7th, 2007, 09:57 PM
I'm with Chailyn. I hope Teyla has that "talk" with her team soon. For better or worse, the team will change because of Teyla's pregnancy, and I am ready for it. I just hope TPTB handle it with some brains and a respect for the viewers.

ladyjanus

h4mx0r
December 7th, 2007, 10:02 PM
Please Please Please Please have an Atlantis version of Double Jeopardy!

Of course, thats assuming their doubles were not destroyed, although it's most probable they were...

Ruined_puzzle
December 7th, 2007, 10:02 PM
At this point, I would almost prefer to watch a TV show based on the adventures of a rogue, human-replicator team. ;)

That'd be awesome.

Mitchell82
December 7th, 2007, 10:04 PM
At least they could have let the fake!team live. You know so SOME people would be at least somewhat happy with this episode. Way to kill all my hope ptb.

Uh they did they arent dead.

Firespray
December 7th, 2007, 10:05 PM
Just finished watching it right now, got to say it was pretty cool but it was completely predictable for me due to watching the promos for it beforehand, I would have been completely surprised had I not already known they were Replicators = / I have to say that the best part of the episode was the very end, having the screen go black and expecting the credits to come on only to hear more Aurora ships pop up then hear Rodney say "Oh crap" then have the credits roll :D

Lythisrose
December 7th, 2007, 10:05 PM
I really did like this episode; it kept me interested the entire time. And the ending was classic - "Oh Crap!"
On the other hand it also left me with a real sense of sadness and melancholy, not only for the loss of Elizabeth, but for the fate of the
repli!team, who had the same desires, dreams, character flaws and quirks as the "real" team that I have come to love. :(

Mitchell82
December 7th, 2007, 10:07 PM
This was a great episode from start to finish. Excellent story and I do not see the Tin Man simularaties. THe only common thread is clones of the team. The clones are 100% different and I doubt the real Weir is dead. It's possible but RepliKeller could have been lying. Last seasons Return 1 and 2 beat out Storm/Eye for me and this even topped that. Great episode and very climatic ending. Can't wait for BAMSR.

Mitchell82
December 7th, 2007, 10:09 PM
I really did like this episode; it kept me interested the entire time. And the ending was classic - "Oh Crap!"
On the other hand it also left me with a real sense of sadness and melancholy, not only for the loss of Elizabeth, but for the fate of the
repli!team, who had the same desires, dreams, character flaws and quirks as the "real" team that I have come to love. :(

But they arent dead as far as I know those weapons that the Asurans had only stun.

Lythisrose
December 7th, 2007, 10:20 PM
But they arent dead as far as I know those weapons that the Asurans had only stun.

That would be great if they live, I think that could lead to some good stories down the line.

majorsal
December 7th, 2007, 10:24 PM
i don't really know how to rate this. even though i've seen 10 eps now, i still consider myself a newbie. i 'feel' a newbie.

my mom didn't like this ep at all. she said it was confusing and boring. i can't agree with her. i'm still learning the characters, so every ep i see is a new learning experience.

i hope the real weir is not dead. i believe replikeller because she seemed so sincere, but i'm hoping that she just didn't know what really happened to weir, like maybe oberoth lying to her. :weir:

why was sam not at least in the end part of the ep, where the real team and atlantis was shown? the ONLY explanation i'll take is that she was visiting hubby jack on earth. :p :samanime51:

so the vision that sam was given in 'the seer' was prophesied in this ep, right? but who will tell her or any of the others, since the repliteam are the ones that saw it?

the scene at the end with mckay grieving was nicely acted.

i wonder what weir's next ep is? i hope the real weir is alive and the team finds a way of saving her and she can return to earth and marry george clooney and they make a movie about her life but the sgc stops it so she becomes a talk show host but oprah stops it so she opens her own restaurant in lake tahoe and her a george have kids and hit the jackpot and then the sgc asks her back and she says no and she runs for president and wins.




sally :)

Eri13
December 7th, 2007, 10:38 PM
I'm up and down on this eppy--I enjoyed the quiet moments, some of the metaphysical musings and the slow reveals, but it felt a bit draggy in some places and really rushed in others.

I love Weir, so all the flippity floppity back and forth about 'her' mulling 'her' death was kinda like pulling teeth. I was sad when Torri spoke the line "I knew when I found out [real Weir was dead] things would never be the same"--it felt like she didn't have to act much there...

They mentioned enough times the real Weir was dead to make me not believe it--especially with that line about her being confident she was the only version of Weir out there. Plot wise, the door is open for her return...or not. This could be the last time we see her, or we could find out Oberoth's had the real Weir locked away at Replicator central for a year, or her clone's alive and whether the clone is or is not as good as the 'real' Weir will be a recurring storyline for years...it all depends on the will of the writer/producers.

Look what they're doing with Beckett, who blew up!

The layers of everything around the Replicator city felt a bit contrived. After Niam and Elizabeth's involvement, how does another group of rogue Replicators get enough freedom to create an entire Atlantis and repli!clones? And why did the 'good' replicators have to have the setting be the 'new' Atlantis? If it was to 'catch up' to where Weir was in time, how did it work in their study of her? What was the point of having her in the locked room, alive but asleep? Wake her up when they felt her role in Matrix!Atlantis was ready to go? I'm confused...

I enjoyed a lot of the second half of the episode, especially the clone interaction (Rodney X2 had me in stitches). But there wasn't enough of the 'real' Atlantis for me...42 minutes in before we saw the real people. And the goodbyes felt rushed. I would have liked a bit more emotion from people who just lost their leader and friend--again. I loved and appreciated the Rodney scene at the end, especially the fact that he tied it into another lost character. I'd like to see some Shep development in that department too, maybe have him lose it down the line, with all the strain of losing a couple of good people he cared about...

Music was great, and touching. The scene at the end in the jumper, with Elizabeth spread out in the back unconscious, was chilling. Kudos to all the cast for playing the clones perfectly. Overall I enjoyed it, though I will be sad if production decides this is it for Weir, because I do agree with some earlier posts that if she was to die truly, it shouldn't have been off-camera...

jz9
December 7th, 2007, 10:40 PM
Wow what a fantastic episode!!! I was not even that excited about it since Carter would not be in it, but was pleasantly surprised by how its high quality. Great story from start to finish. I missed Sam of course, but I am glad she is not in this one since she can only be placed at the end, and that would have been a waste. I was relieved that the Atlantis destruction was only to the copy.

alyssa
December 7th, 2007, 10:43 PM
An amazing episode and the reason why this show is so great. The character emotions were so real not forced. It felt a team of friends for years coming to terms with a lost friend.


Also...

This is not Weir's last episode this season! ;)

Her fourth ep is a blink and you'll miss it appearance, from what Torri's said.

She'll be in a frigging flashback or some such crap.

TPTB have screwed over Weir, Torri and all the Weir fans, and it sucks.

majorsal
December 7th, 2007, 10:44 PM
Wow what a fantastic episode!!! I was not even that excited about it since Carter would not be in it, but was pleasantly surprised by how its high quality. Great story from start to finish. I missed Sam of course, but I am glad she is not in this one since she can only be placed at the end, and that would have been a waste. I was relieved that the Atlantis destruction was only to the copy.

yes. :D

but our real ppl need to know this for themselves, so they can stop fretting on it.

btw, i like jewel. she's got this sweetness about her that's very endearing.



sally :)

Redhooks
December 7th, 2007, 10:46 PM
Biggest quibbles. how dumb is our team? They steal a replicator ship, and they've GOT to know it has a RepliLoJack in it and take it to a planet where they've got a team. would it not have made more sense to abandon the ship on an uninhabited planet with a gate, and then go through that gate a few times till got to that planet? This is almost as bad as Rodney and Barrett running off to rescue Jeannie last week and going "oh, we dont need backup."
Even though that would have seemed logical, it didn't fit into the storyline because they could never have had the duplicates more than an episode or two anyway so the Replicators had to find them. Plot device and intelligence are not always compatable. ;) This happens a lot on most TV shows and just not SGA.


why was sam not at least in the end part of the ep, where the real team and atlantis was shown? the ONLY explanation i'll take is that she was visiting hubby jack on earth. :p :samanime51:

sally :)It is not cost-effective for the Producers to have Amanda for a less than one-minute appearance when she was contracted for 14 episodes. It was different for Weir because Torri was contracted for the whole season so you have to pay her for the episode whether or not she appeared in it.

Ruffles
December 7th, 2007, 10:48 PM
Staying spoiler free is definitely the way to go! Other than the teaser at the end of last week's ep, I had no other knowledge of what would happen. I LOVED this one.

They say confession is good for the soul so I'll start with that. I completely missed the old uniforms in the first few scenes. The only reason I figured out our guys weren't really our guys is knowing (from last week teaser - thank you promo dept) that there would be duplicates. The one question I kept asking (before I finally got a clue) was: where the hell is Carter? Why is John acting (and being treated by everyone) like he's in charge? When his head wound cleared, I finally got it (hey - it's been a long day). Then I couldn't wait to see Rodney again to confirm the old uniform (and then I realized Keller was wearing one).

Good stuff:
* McKay and Zelenka snark - that just never gets old.
* fitting things to Before Elizabeth Disappeared - the uniforms, the people, the memories (DupRonon wearing a long sleeve shirt to cover the tattoo that wouldn't be there)
* McKay's instincts being right - he knew something was wrong but didn't know what - loved his warning to John
* RepliKeller - she scared me when she was talking with Lorne the first time (always good to see Lorne!). An interesting choice for the boss of DupAtlantis
* Ronon holding McKay as John slices his hand open - a testament to his evolving maturity that he didn't squeal more
* good to see Weir and get some answers (more on that later)
* the sacrifice of RepliKeller - staying behind and dying rather than being a risk
* an interesting resolution to Davos' vision - since the rebel Replicators have all been destroyed, they will no longer be a distraction (a hindrance?) to Oberoth and his domination. Their destruction might be more significant than we realize right now.
* John and Rodney's reaction to seeing Elizabeth (well played by JF and DH - these two step it up a notch every week)
* the team meeting their duplicates - the 2 McKays were a scream and the two Sheppards just seemed to commiserate with each other. I found the 2 Ronons' reactions to be the most interesting - almost like jealousy. I was hoping they would talk (about his old Satedan team) and that the 2 Teylas would chat about her pregnancy.
* John trying to figure out a way to get Weir back to Atlantis. He just never gives up.
* the duplicate team running the fake on the Replicators to not only save the real team but to try to prove they really were human. I think DupSheppard was really disappointed to find out he lived.
* the conversation between Radek and Rodney at the end - this is the highlight of the ep for me. Radek's realization of Rodney's avoidance; Rodney's mention of Carson and how losing Weir is like that and he just isn't ready to deal; Radek's offer to talk and Rodney's temporary refusal; and finally Rodney thanking Radek. I knew you had it in you, McKay. Well done.
* the chat between Sheppard and McKay at the end - John's abruptness is blurting out about cleaning Weir's quarters (was the loss weighing on him to the point he couldn't hold it in?). He seemed stunned that she was really gone as did Rodney.
* the way the Replicator ships just kept popping up even after the screen went black ("Oh, crap"). Can you hear Hermiod's reply to that?

I reserve questions/quibbles (except for the one about the 2 Teylas and 2 Ronons not talking) until the 3 parter is resolved.

Weir - I thought the send-off Weir got in Lifeline was fabulous - she was tough, tricky, self-sacrificing, focused and resolute. Her strength was the attribute that was highlighted, and it's highlighted here again. Keller gets the line, but it's such a testimony to Weir. I can't quote it exact, but it's when she explains that real Weir is dead. Her human side was considered dangerous when she interacted with the other Replicators - she corrupted them. You see it again when DupWeir is talking to RealSheppard in the forest. She knows she can never go back to Atlantis. She accepts that and is willing to move forward while never forgetting the safety of her city. Good stuff.

Now, it's possible that Oberoth was lying to RepliKeller, but I doubt it. I think RealWeir really is dead. But DupWeir is not. No one ever really dies in scifi. I look forward to her next appearance.


What a great episode! Things went a little slow in the beginning, why did the writers kill Dr. Weir off? That is so stupid! So I guess we're never getting her back now. I was hoping that the copy was the real Dr. Weir but they just told her that so she wouldn't fight back but after she got killed in the jumper, I guess that she really was a copy. What a pathetic end to a great character! I'm glad Davos's vision about Atlantis being destroyed was really the Asuran copy of Atlantis. And apparently, the Asurans were forbidden from assuming the form of any living human, until now. I always wondered why there were never any copies of the team made from the beginning encounters with the Asurans. How did the Asurans construct actual flesh and blood copies of the team? Did they have DNA? Does it really take a ZPM's worth of power to create 5 people? That was kind of odd. Nice to see that the Asurans are actually onscreen mentioned to using Aurora class warships, was it just me or did the other warships in orbit over the meeting planet look like the warship from "Lifeline" just from a different angle? How many Auroras do the Asurans actually have? How will all of those ever get destroyed? I'm surprised that no "To be continued..." text appeared, that's a first for Stargate.

<snippage for length>

Vala,

I don't think DupWeir is dead. First, it was proved the dups heal quickly. I think they were injured in the crash and were being healed by the nanites. DupSheppard obviously was the least injured. Have we seen the Replicator weapons do more than stun? I assumed he was stunned rather than killed by the Replicator that boarded the ship. Also, if RepliKeller was to be believed, her faction separated from Oberoth's group and then created Weir and the team. I would think Oberoth and his people would want to at least interrogate Weir and the others.


Oooooooooohhhh.....I can't wait until the fan fiction writers start in on this one.

I would have loved to have seen some more emotion from the real team as they learn that Weir is dead, has been dead for several months. (But then, who's to say she really is dead?) I was hoping really hard as the ep unfolded that the five of them would at least get a chance to say goodbye to each other and get some closure. I know I would have loved some closure myself, as a fan and loyal audience member...

Oh well...great episode, otherwise. Even with the glaring holes in the plot....I'd give it a solid 8/10 cuz twice the Shepherd goes a long, long way with me...

ladyjanus

As Rodney said, they aren't ready to deal with it yet. I think they were in shock.

morjana
December 7th, 2007, 10:51 PM
SGA - SciFi Channel Updates Dec. 7 '07 - This Mortal Coil:

SciFi Channel updates for Friday, December 7, 2007:

"This Mortal Coil"

http://www.scifi.com/atlantis/episodes/episodes.php?seas=4&ep=0409&act=1

* Episode Synopsis
* Episode Photos


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v443/morjana/scifi4/beall.jpg

NEW New episode - "Be All My Sin's Remember'd" - Friday, January 4, 2008 -- Atlantis joins forces with the Wraith in an effort to to defeat the Replicators forever.

Guest stars include: Michael Beach (Col. Abe Ellis), Christopher Heyerdahl (Todd the Wraith), Niall Matter (Lt. Kemp), David Nykl (Dr. Radek Zelenka), Mitch Pileggi (Col. Steven Caldwell) and Jill Wagner (Larrin).

NEW Quizzes:


FRIENDS AND FAMILY

http://www.scifi.com/atlantis/quizzes/friendsfamily/index.php?start=1

Sure, you know the team members of Stargate Atlantis, but do you know their friends and families? Take our new trivia quiz and find out! (This was reported earlier, but the link just became active.)

Dec. 8, 2007

REPLICATORS

http://www.scifi.com/atlantis/quizzes/replicators/index.php?start=1

The Replicators are one of the most dangerous enemies of the Atlantis Expedition. How well do you know this scourge of the Pegasus galaxy? Take our quiz and find out.


VIDEO INTERVIEWS

http://www.scifi.com/atlantis/featurettes/index.php?Clip=9

or

http://video.scifi.com/player/?id=192658

Dec. 6, 2007

In part two of her video Q&A series, Jewel Staite (Jennifer Keller) fields a few more fans' questions from SCIFI.COM's Stargate Atlantis Forum.

sueKay
December 7th, 2007, 10:58 PM
I am gutted that Elizabeth is dead

The only solace I get from this episode is the fact that Torri Higginson has stated that she doesn't want to come back, so this now leaves her free to do other stuff...Unlike Paul McGillion who would come back.

And I sometimes think TPTB only do stuff like killing Weir off-screen to anger the hardcore fanbase (ie. us) cos they get a kick out of it.

Ruined_puzzle
December 7th, 2007, 11:03 PM
I am gutted that Elizabeth is dead

The only solace I get from this episode is the fact that Torri Higginson has stated that she doesn't want to come back, so this now leaves her free to do other stuff...Unlike Paul McGillion who would come back.

And I sometimes think TPTB only do stuff like killing Weir off-screen to anger the hardcore fanbase (ie. us) cos they get a kick out of it.

I'm sorry but when did Torri say she woudn't come back? I know from a recent con she said that she would if they gave her a good storyline. Obviously tptb have not approached her in any way for s5.

Eri13
December 7th, 2007, 11:05 PM
That's what I thought, too...she was still open to discussion. She was very gracious in her Gateworld interview...and in fan con reports has not really said either way whether their is a possibility for Weir in the future...

alyssa
December 7th, 2007, 11:05 PM
I am gutted that Elizabeth is dead

The only solace I get from this episode is the fact that Torri Higginson has stated that she doesn't want to come back, so this now leaves her free to do other stuff...Unlike Paul McGillion who would come back.

And I sometimes think TPTB only do stuff like killing Weir off-screen to anger the hardcore fanbase (ie. us) cos they get a kick out of it.

She hasn't said she doesn't want to come back. She's said she'd like to come back if there's the chance of a good storyline.

Please don't say that she's said that -- it'll give the anti-Weir people false ammunition to attack her fans with yet again.

sueKay
December 7th, 2007, 11:10 PM
It was in a review of Miller's Crossing...I got the impression that Torri felt very sad about it

http://uk.tv.ign.com/articles/839/839075p1.html

read the last two lines

smushybird
December 7th, 2007, 11:11 PM
Another wonderful episode. I loved it from start to finish. It was fun, interesting, full of characterization and depth, sweet moments...even some continuity. The way the characters connected with each other was such a pleasure to watch. Almost everyone got some time, even poor Teyla with her jacket on and only the top third of her showing in most scenes. :)

The eps this season have been so good, I've hardly had to read fanfic at all. Please please do this all the time. :D

Fantastic job, guys!!!!!

My only quibble is that the previews gave away too much. I don't usually mind spoilers, but previews shouldn't be that spoilery.

Chezlee
December 7th, 2007, 11:13 PM
When the team discovered the replicators, and I know this is totally lame, but for a wild, incoherrent 10 seconds I envisioned the last year of episodes to be all replicators and that the only a "replicarson" had blown up.
<---Avid Carson fan

Of course that little fantasy was destroyed in two seconds.

Good episode over-all without nitpicking over similarites with afore mentioned shows. I didn't watch any previews or read any spoilers so I went into this episode cold and it was awesome and very funny, I love the humor that is incorporated into SGA.

I agree that the appearence of Weir just reminded me of the great chemistry that the originial cast had (with the exception of Ronon who fit in nicely, and incidentally is the only one who really did) and it only needed Carson to round it off nicely, though of course that was not going to happen!.

Also has anyone else noticed that Rodney's emotion concerning Weir and VERY much Carson was the first real sign that anyone cared that they were gone? I mean even the immediate season 3 episodes following his demise never mentioned his name except once or twice by Keller and only in casual passing. Everyone went about like nothing had happened and like a Dr. Carson Beckett was never in Atlantis.

I can truly say without a doubt that this is the first season 4 episode that was really any good. the others were missing something and that little indefineable something was definetly in this episode and was felt by all.

My Very first post~~Chezlee

Major_Griff
December 7th, 2007, 11:19 PM
Wow great ep! I'm pretty sure I loved alomst everything about this ep. The two McKay's were hilarious. The whole ep made me miss Weir, a lot. I feel like she was very important to the show and there is a piece missing now. S4 has been great though. It is getting really weird to have atlantis based eps with out Carter. Travelers, Missing, and Miller's crossing were fine since they were primarily off world eps, but this one had a lot of time on Atlantis so it would have made sense for her to have been there in this one. Every time Hammond or Landry missed an SG-1 ep, they were either entirely out if the SGC or mostly out of the SGC. Other than that though it was great. I love the scene with Zelinka and Rodney at the end and then the scene with Rodney and Shep too. I wasn't sure If I should have been laughing ad the ending or not, but I liked it. Over all 9/10.

alyssa
December 7th, 2007, 11:22 PM
It was in a review of Miller's Crossing...I got the impression that Torri felt very sad about it

http://uk.tv.ign.com/articles/839/839075p1.html

read the last two lines

That doesn't say that she doesn't want to be back. That says that she hasn't been approached.

Platschu
December 8th, 2007, 12:16 AM
Bad:
- McKay's whining and speak with Zelenka and Sheppard was irritating, I believe Weir remembered him so
- the whole RepliAtlantis is a cheap way to reuse the standind set - if the replicators can replicate everything (for example project landscape), than they didn't have to rebuild to whole city to test RepliWeir feelings
- the story is rushed at the beginning and there is a too quick at the end
- the replicator team reminded me to the android SG-1 in Double Jeopardy
- the whole Seer's prophecy about RepliAtlantis's destroying is unimportant, so why he showed it to Carter?
- the team went to RepliWeir's call and they risked the real Atlantis

Good:
- Weir returned
- they mentioned Carson
- civil war between the replicators
- lot of Ronon and Teyla scene in the second half

ashman2
December 8th, 2007, 12:26 AM
- the whole Seer's prophecy about RepliAtlantis's destroying is unimportant, so why he showed it to Carter?

He showed it to Carter because he had no way of knowing that it was not the real Atlantis. He gets visions but no explanations to go with them. From his point of view he saw Atlantis getting destroyed; that was why he showed Carter the vision.

g.o.d
December 8th, 2007, 01:28 AM
I really liked TMC. It was finally an interesting episode after those crappy episodes in the past. But what I didn't like, it was the end of TMC. Why did TPTB decide to kill duplicates? They are ruining every possible interesting story-arc in SGA. First, RepliWeir in the Lifeline and now those duplicates. TPTB's decisions make no sense to me

and killing real Weir offscreen? Damn, she was part of SGA for three years, she deserved something better...

Integrabyte
December 8th, 2007, 02:25 AM
One thing about this episode:

Keller go back to acting school and wipe that amateur smile off your face. All she did in this episode is to show that she uses Colgate!!!


Had to stop watching this crap after 15 minutes...Had low expectations about this episode...wasn't disappointed.

bluealien
December 8th, 2007, 02:25 AM
A good entertaining episode and I agree it could have been even better if we didn't know already about the repli team. The actions in the first 15 minutes or so would have been so much better, as we would have had no clue about what was wrong. Teyla finding the nanites in Sheppard would have been a WTF moment, even so a really entertaining episode.
I loved repli team and their interaction with the real team. The two Rodneys were hilarious. I would have expected a bit more emotion from the team to Weir but then I guess she wasn't the real thing.
Rodney not wanting to take a break to distract himself from thinking about Weir being dead was a nice heartfelt scene and carries on nicely from his actions in Adrift where he went against Sheppards orders to save her. Rodney with all his abrasiness seems to have shown the most emotion with regard to Weir.
Maybe the repi team survived.... it would be nice to see them meet up with their other selves in the future. So overall a great ep and look forward to parts 2 and 3.

9/10

Linzi
December 8th, 2007, 02:48 AM
So, TMC.

I really, really liked it. It was completely different for a mid-season finale, and though I missed the action we sometimes see, it was a refreshing change.

I did know too much of the story to start with, and that's my fault – total spoiler seeker here, and it doesn’t always pay off to be so impatient! I wish I hadn't have known the replicator angle, then I'd have been more surprised at the team not being the real team. Though, even if I hadn't have known the rough outline of the story, I'd have guessed about them being replicators in the end anyway, but that's ok, I watch too much Atlantis for my own good, and so often guess storylines... though sometimes I’m surprised, well I have been this season more so than any other, so that’s good, and I’m not complaining!

I thought it was an incredibly well written episode. So kudos to JM here. Some bits made me smile, Shep seeing himself, the two Rodneys! They were hysterical! I just laughed myself senseless at Rodney and Rodney talking to each other, and the two Sheppard’s faces witnessing the exchange was priceless! Teyla and Ronon were excellent too. I loved that Ronon didn’t like himself, and was so uncomfortable and suspicious here! :lol: Teyla was good here too. As always, the voice of logic, reason and understanding.

Zelenka’s talk to Rodney was heartfelt and so sweet. I like that McKay still hasn’t come to terms with everything and is doing a Shep and filing it all away for a rainy day, when, no doubt, the enormity of the losses he feels will hit him like a tonne of bricks. I think the same will happen to Shep too, though I felt he sees some closure now as far as Weir is concerned. He’s ordered her things to be shipped to Earth, so he accepts she’s gone. I think that’s important to see. I hate loose ends and want to see the characters deal with the fallout from such things.

I have to say, though I believe the real Weir is dead, I think it’s possible we’ll see a version of Weir again. A replicated version though. Now, I’m ok with that if the story is good and innovative in some way, but if it is like this, then it’s going to get old very soon. So my opinion is TPTB should exercise caution here.

I sort of guessed the Seer’s vision would come true, and also had surmised that it’d be the repli Atlantis. Great fx though.

The Weir thing in itself I wasn't so keen on, and here's why. I liked her in Lifeline. She was the best I've seen her. But here, she felt almost unnecessary. It's as if she was in the episode for the sake of it, maybe to close the storyline to a certain extent? I don't know, but it lacked the emotional punch I'd really hoped to see. Whether that's because we found out the real Weir is dead or not, I don't know. Somehow I found it a bit anti-climactic. I'm not a huge fan of this 'nobody dies in scifi' stuff. You're dead, or you're not, IMO. But again, maybe that's just me. Perhaps if it had been our Weir I'd have felt more emotionally attached? But, it's difficult to care for any replicated versions of our heroes. Well for me it is, because it's not them!

I know some won't agree with me here, and that's absolutely fine, but I can never see Weir as leader again now, and I also have to admit, though I know AT was busy and couldn't be in more episodes, that I am feeling the loss of her every now and then. I feel the show has moved forward with the casting changes, and I've moved right along with it. I'm hoping the second half of the season was able to include her more so she has a greater role as leader. She is needed, I think, to round off the stories. Even if she's not on screen much. I need to see her support of the team, and in this episode that didn’t happen. I know why, because of scheduling conflicts, but it still leaves me a bit wanting.

Now, Keller. I have to admit that at times I’ve found her a little too scared for my tastes. But, I have to praise Jewel here. I really liked Repli Keller, and warmed to Keller a lot more, even though it wasn’t really her! :lol: Jewel pulled her part off brilliantly for me, and I found myself being really pleased with her performance and enjoying it very much. So well done Jewel! :) On a side note, I loved the way Keller went all silver and morphed into someone else. I know, I know, I’m a total scifi geek. :o

I thought the ending was a strange sort of cliffhanger, and a little down beat, in that it was the reveal that the replicators aren't doing so badly after all, but where was the imminent danger? :lol: Maybe Rodney’s ‘Oh crap!’ is telling us the Replicators are up to something really bad? Maybe their forces are amassing? Maybe there are just hundreds of Replicator Aurora class ships in the galaxy? I don’t know, and I suppose I’m not meant to. But, damn it, I want to know!!!!! Maybe that's why JM said it wasn't the usual sort of story and mid season finale? I like cliffhangers, and I'd have liked a bit more peril, but, again, that just personal choice here.

Thus overall, TMC was yet another top notch episode. Great performances all round, an interesting story, with very well written dialogue. I look forward to BAMSR. :)

Edit: Forgot to say I loved the stick fight! It was wonderful! Really brutal! Heee! ;)

Col. Shadow Quinn
December 8th, 2007, 02:58 AM
This Mortal Coil is coming on in less than 1 minute here in Guam.

JackHarkness_Hot
December 8th, 2007, 02:58 AM
Well at least there was a bang... relatively speaking.


Was the destruction of Atlantis what Col. Carter saw? If so, then that scene from The Sere was rather pointless.


Anyway, it was really interesting the way they played the entire episode. Sheppard and team think they're the real team and they find out that they're actually the repli-team. Really good job there, I didn't expect to see that TBH.

Weir.. oh my Weir, it was good to see her back again! Even if it was "Repli-Weir". I rather enjoyed Repli-Rodney having a total buzz with Rodney, at least temporarily, the IQ got SQUARED, lol

Hopefully it won't be the last time we see the Repli-team!

Overall, a very good episode, not what I expected and I felt the atmosphere was high though it didn't sorta troughed off a bit towards the end. Would have liked more boom.

It felt like it was Classic Stargate Atlantis with Weir and the team IMO, that made the episode felt normal. The team was back!

It reinforces the fact that Season 4 sure feels a lot different without Weir. To me it was tragic when Repli-Keller stated that the real Weir is dead :(

Integrabyte
December 8th, 2007, 04:28 AM
...and another one takes the show to being cancelled :P. I am not a Weir fan but I am very happy Tori left. She does not deserve to play in this crap. To be honest, who does?

AGateFan
December 8th, 2007, 04:56 AM
Terrible way to write out Elizabeth! Off screen? Fake Keller just says she died months ago? What a boring and depressing episode. I'll watch when we get Carson back for his two-parter, but I'm done with this show.
Hey maybe Oberoth took her off the network because he wants to keep her all to himself. Its possible RepliKeller was mis-informed and of course the replicators can make infinit clones so you never know when weir will be in an ep.

kirmit
December 8th, 2007, 05:00 AM
It's an alright episode, I wasn't gripped to it though. I've always disliked Weir personally but people are right you never know what you had until you lose it, seeing her did make it feel more like Atlantis. However Carter shouldn't be discounted yet, she's barely had any screentine with the other characters so far, Weir didn't have the connection with the team right away, it took time, the same applies to Carter. Overall I give it 3/5. BTW I don't think weir is dead but I wouldn't put is past TPTB

SG-1 Spoiler Look what happened to the Ori, Also taken out off screen

AGateFan
December 8th, 2007, 05:18 AM
so since it was mentioned earlier in this topic that weir appears in more eps does this mean she ascended? which is why the asurans are so interested in doing this and believing they can actually do it?
God I hope not.
I mean I would love to see Weir again and all but I think that Card has been played and played and played. And I thought the ep with Oma\Anubis was supposed to be their way of getting rid of that card. Didnt seem to work.

AGateFan
December 8th, 2007, 05:23 AM
A duplicate team that conveniently shows up just in time to die saving the real team- in the proess showing the real team that the duplicate team was more human than we all thought. Yea, not similar at all. I wonder which SG-1 episode will be regurgitated next? My guess is Abyss, with Shep playing the part of O'Neill. But WITHOUT an ascended Daniel-type character, so the episodes will be REALLY different!
You could have ascended Weir come to his aide. Maybe thats her next appearance ;). Some shippers would be happy.

JackHarkness_Hot
December 8th, 2007, 05:25 AM
I dunno, I wouldn't mind if Weir got ascended (as mentioned by daniel9).

For Weir's character sake, I really do hope so. If she got destroyed by Oberoth (sp?) by the most worst possible way imaginable then at least if she did ascend, then her character didn't have to die so tragically and in so much pain either. Also, it allows Weir to come back.


Also, I like to make an omission to my post earlier, it's not really Repli-Weir, it's a cloned Weir with nanites in her, as she isn't made with Replicator blocks.

sueKay
December 8th, 2007, 05:46 AM
Well I've now seen the episode, and it would have gotten 10/10 had they not killed Weir

But i'll give it 9/10 for reminding me how much I miss Weir and love the character

And couldn't we have kept RepliKeller and dumped the real Keller?

I also think the Clone!Team are still alive..all of them

The closing scenes of the episode were really good too

And I have a theory as to how Elizabeth could still be alive...

Is it possible that because they were going to kill Elizabeth, that rather than copying her memories into the Asuran mainframe, they actually *extracted* them and thus RepliKeller's people may have actually downloaded Elizabeth's real consciousness into a clone body...making her the real Weir?

So while Weir's body may be dead...perhaps her actual soul is still alive?

Southern Red
December 8th, 2007, 05:57 AM
It is hard to put into words how I feel about this episode. I found parts of it to be a confusing mishmash that was hard to follow, but maybe my anxiety while waiting for Weir to finally appear added to that. I liked the setup with the fake team gradually realizing something was amiss. But it took too long to get to the main part of the plot.

Keller and Lorne have real chemistry together. Hope we see more of them.f

The meeting of the two teams was priceless. Everyone reacted just as I would have expected, Ronon with aggression, Rodney babbling with himself, John with a bit of distrust laced with humor, (I kept expecting him to reach over and poke himself.) and Teyla, huh, what did Teyla do, not much of an impression there.

The moment when Elizabeth appeared on the screen was good. Rodney's surprised reaction and the inability of John to form words was just perfect.

The best part of the whole show was the walk in the woods. John willing to just bring her on home and ignore the circumstances showed us how deeply her loss affected him. Ronon and Teyla's talk just proved once again how much they have in common. Why these are not the 2 chosen ships in this show will forever remain a mystery.

Having Elizabeth die off screen, if indeed Oberoth was not lying, was just unforgivable. There are not words to describe what a heinous act that was by the writers. And the mention by John of sending her stuff back to Earth also was a bit abrupt. This is the man who promised to find her no matter what. Now we get to see him accept her death without a backward glance, ladeda, clean out her junk, back to work. At least he and Rodney didn't go merrily off to get lunch this time. Rodney finally showed some emotion over her loss. I've been hoping for that.

Unlike most of my online friends, I have been watching this season and even enjoying parts of it. I will continue to watch as long as Joe Flanigan is anywhere around, but I think this one just converted me from a fan to a casual viewer. Women's Murder Club will give me my Flanigan fix earlier in the evening, at least for a while, and I'll just DVR this one for whenever I get around to it.

joebags
December 8th, 2007, 06:03 AM
I've had it with these writers just copying old Sg1 shows. Killing Weir was dumb as well. I wasn't one of her big fans before, she was just "there", but with her being gone and then seeing her back, there was a "Oh, there she is!" vibe, and it made Carter seem even more out of place. Weir made it feel like the old Atlantis again, and its a bad move to kill her off. Carter doesn't belong IMO. She is part of SG1, not SGA.

Now Keller, OTOH. She has to go. She is just unwatchable with the cutie smile and empty brain. This episode gets a big thumbs down, because it solidified just how low this show has gone lately. Yeah, the special effects have been good, but I'll take a good script any day.

Integrabyte
December 8th, 2007, 06:17 AM
Reading some spoilers here and there I realise I did a good thing stopping after 15 minutes. It seems to me that this episode was good for one thing: confirm that Weir is dead. I will definitely watch the next one because Skinner appears. Other than that...not looking forward to S5.

Jumper_One
December 8th, 2007, 06:44 AM
wow just wow! awesome ep, can't wait for BAMSR! I loved how confusing the first half was. first I thought everybody was a replica, then after Shep's 'injury' I decided it must've been only these four. after the second test I was sure they were the real ones, just with a hell of a lot of nanites in their bloodstream. but of course shortly after that scene Keller and Lorne explain everything

to put Keller in the leader position of this fraction of the replicators was ingenious imo, I never would've suspected this member of the expedition, the one we barely know something about to be the head of everything. it was also nice to see Weir again, she wasn't OOC imo, TBTB did a good job on her. I thought it was ok to appeal to RepliKeller's sense of humanity and compassion while they were in the cell, though I never would've thought that it'd actually work. anyway they had to get out of there somehow. but I certainly would never have asked RepliKeller to join me and escape. then of course Oberoth attacks and we see how the fake Atlantis gets destroyed which was really impressive but we already saw that in Sam's vision

the scenes on the planet were fun. yes they reminded me of the two wrestling O'Neill's in SG-1's 'Double Jeopardy' but it didn't bother me. it was awesome to hear the two Rodney's finish eachother's sentences while the Shep's had 'this' look we've all come to know. the talks between the different team members while they were out walking around, were interesting, especially what Ronon and Teyla were saying about equal value and stuff. it was no surprise to me that 'the other team' was sacrificing themselves in order to get the real team home but it sure was an exciting scene when the PJ crashed (so this means Weir is dead after all? maybe her cameo appearance will be in BAMSR?). the end was cool too, I liked how Rodney and Zelenka talked about what had happened...or didn't. I got the impression that maybe the experience with his sister on Earth changed McKay somehow. and how many frikkin Aurora class ships are there? (would've been interesting to compare them with the amount of Wraith hives)

the only thing that bugged me a little was the lack of Sam, she could've been great in the beginning when they were trying to fiure out what the drone was (what was it anyway? and what was its purpose? tracking divice? scout drone?) or in the end when Shep and Rodney were tracking the Replicator Aurora class ships. I guess TBTB didn't want her and Weir in the same ep, probably because of fan reactions. on the other hand this means that Sam's in 8 more eps which I'm really looking forward to. and I certainly hope we'll get to see more of her in s5!

last but not least I'd like to point out what a great job Joel Goldsmith did with the score! it was really impressive, especially when RepliAtlantis was destroyed and when the Replicators discovered them on the planet

all in all an awesome ep, probably the best so far and I can't wait for the conclusion in BAMSR

mckaychick
December 8th, 2007, 06:53 AM
Well hate to say it but i didnt find this episode all that good. Most of the episode i found boring untill the end. I hope part 2 is better

Integrabyte
December 8th, 2007, 06:56 AM
Well hate to say it but i didnt find this episode all that good. Most of the episode i found boring untill the end. I hope part 2 is better

Of course it will be better. Caldwell gets off with Sam :D

mckaychick
December 8th, 2007, 06:57 AM
i hope so cause i just didnt likw this episode

The_Carpenter
December 8th, 2007, 06:58 AM
Of course it will be better. Caldwell gets off with Sam :D

Uhoh, Caldwell's gonna get it before the end of the season! Honestly Sam should come with a health warning.

Briangate78
December 8th, 2007, 07:37 AM
Reading some spoilers here and there I realise I did a good thing stopping after 15 minutes. It seems to me that this episode was good for one thing: confirm that Weir is dead. I will definitely watch the next one because Skinner appears. Other than that...not looking forward to S5.

Did we see the real Weir die? No! I am not going to take the word of a replicator. Sorry.

Briangate78
December 8th, 2007, 07:39 AM
Hey maybe Oberoth took her off the network because he wants to keep her all to himself. Its possible RepliKeller was mis-informed and of course the replicators can make infinit clones so you never know when weir will be in an ep.

Hit the nail on the head. :)

kirmit
December 8th, 2007, 07:41 AM
Did anyone else feel that even though Teyla has this big pregnancy Arc she's still nothing more than wallpaper? She didn't do anything at all in this ep.

Tiletron
December 8th, 2007, 07:42 AM
It must be comforting to know there are 38 Replicator Aurora-class ships in the galaxy :(

Integrabyte
December 8th, 2007, 07:43 AM
Did anyone else feel that even though Teyla has this big pregnancy Arc she's still nothing more than wallpaper? She didn't do anything at all in this ep.

Once a backup....singer always a backup singer ;)

Briangate78
December 8th, 2007, 07:43 AM
It must be comforting to know there are 38 Replicator Aurora-class ships in the galaxy :(

I loved the Black screen then the bleep bleep bleep bleep bleep "Oh crap"! :p

jelgate
December 8th, 2007, 07:43 AM
Did anyone else feel that even though Teyla has this big pregnancy Arc she's still nothing more than wallpaper? She didn't do anything at all in this ep.Wheither where talking about the Asuran Teyla or the real one she?* had something to do.She was helping Ronon on his thought about his duplicate.

Briangate78
December 8th, 2007, 07:54 AM
Isn't just so real how Weir assumes the leadership position? She does it so naturally. Now Carter is doing well, but she is not Weir. Weir truly had that passionate leadership ability. She convinced RepliKeller to let them go, and seeked out the real Atlantis members, and planned for the diversion so the real Sheppard and co can escape. I mean Weir is just amazing.

Jumper_One
December 8th, 2007, 07:56 AM
I loved the Black screen then the bleep bleep bleep bleep bleep "Oh crap"! :p

yeah that was cool. 38 Replicator Aurora-class ships? did you count them?

Integrabyte
December 8th, 2007, 07:56 AM
yeah that was cool. 38 Replicator Aurora-class ships? did you count them?


Is it relevant? We will win anyways :P.

Wraith_Boy
December 8th, 2007, 07:57 AM
I think I like Keller better as a replicator than trying to be Carson... for once it seemed like she found her role. Didn't think that would be as a replicator though. Ah well.

The problem is it's far easier to be a 2D character than a 3D one.


At first I was wondering why Sam wasn't in this episode, then when I learned it wasn't the real Atlantis it made sense. But still... one would expect to see her in the end. It almost seems like Sheppard and Carter are co-leaders of Atlantis the way the episodes have been trading off between the two.

Not really, the visions usually came true to the people that witnessed them. So if they didn't plan on having AT in the ep, then they should have given the vision to Shep or even Ronon etc.

3 reasons probably why they didn't do it. 1) AT might not have been avaialable for filming. 2) They might not have wanted to throw Carter into an ep in which they announce that Weir is dead. 3) If Carter wasn't heavily involved, then it would be a waste since she's only contracted for 14 eps to waste one of them with 10secs worth of screen-time.


I didn't like how this was Weir's episode of the season...I mean if it was her it was only to say she was really dead and for her "clone" to die as well! I was not very happy or impressed by that storyline aspect. If they had kept her I think it would have made more interesting stories later in the season(s).

Who's to say they won't. Weir is still in one other ep this season. So presumabley it'll be the real her or the clone from this ep. Don't think they're gonna do the whole Ba'al thing again. Original is killed off, clone is killed off, only to be cloned again.


One thing I don't get, why didn't the duplicates abandon the ship, go to another planet then contact Atlantis from there? Having the replicators track the ship they stole didn't seem like a smart move.

Problem is they don't know where Atlantis is these days! As for abandoning the ship. Obviously the smart move would have been to abandon it, then go safely through to another planet. Heck even Ford done that while doped up on the enzyme etc. So realistically they wouldn;t have made that mistake, but then if they'd done the correct thing. The remained of the episode couldn't have played out like it did. They arrive to the planet. Clones meet up with their real-life counterparts, Asurans track ship to deserted planet. Clones stay safe. Meaning they need to bring Weir & that back. So ignoring plot holes makes their jobs easier when writing.


They didn't actually contact Atlantis. They found an off-world team and they contacted Atlantis.

It was said the Replicators knew everything that the clones knew. So how could theya ctually contact an off-world team in the first place because all the off-world sites would have been compromised the moment Weir fell into enemy hands.

Right then, every off-world site or base would have been changed up. So there is no way they could have went to an old base & found the humans to still be there using it even despite the fact the Asurans know about it. All the Asurans need to do is go to it, grab the people in it, probe their minds. Learn the gate address, then use it to calculate the exact position of Atlantis in the galaxy. Send ships this time & make sure it doesn't get away.

chocdoc
December 8th, 2007, 08:01 AM
A lot of touching moments in this episode which made it a good one. I needed more reaction from Teyla about Weir, however! Telya still seems to be way in the background. Teyla and Weir developed a fairly strong relationship in season 3, yet you wouldn't know it in this episode. Ronon too for that matter. I'm getting a little tired of Shep/Mckay dominating they show, even when Weir is back.

But, all in all, a good set up for the next episode. Looking forward to what happens January 4th, and to seeing Carter again. She has been missing quite a lot in the first half of the season (because of AT's availability/SG-1 movies), so I'm hoping that she plays a much more active role in the second half of the season.

Southern Red
December 8th, 2007, 08:12 AM
Isn't just so real how Weir assumes the leadership position? She does it so naturally. Now Carter is doing well, but she is not Weir. Weir truly had that passionate leadership ability. She convinced RepliKeller to let them go, and seeked out the real Atlantis members, and planned for the diversion so the real Sheppard and co can escape. I mean Weir is just amazing.

Brian,you are just so correct on this observation. And even more amazing how the team falls into the old pattern of letting her lead. This makes her loss even more of a puzzlement. :(

Especially in the scene with John when they are walking, she reminded me of her firm response to him at the end of TRW when he teased about being infected with nanites and she just got that look on her face and with a firm "no" made him a little ashamed of himself for teasing her. They just fell so comfortably into the old partnership. I would love to have heard their discussion about how the leadership of Atlantis is now going. But I know you can't show everything.

kymeric
December 8th, 2007, 08:18 AM
Wow, good ep. SGA continues to escelate in awesomeness. I left this episode with the same foreboding as the episodes leading to the siege. I had the thought, wow how are the heros gonna survive this. Heck how are the wraith gonna survive this?

Jumper_One
December 8th, 2007, 08:23 AM
Wow, good ep. SGA continues to escelate in awesomeness. I left this episode with the same foreboding as the episodes leading to the siege. I had the thought, wow how are the heros gonna survive this. Heck how are the wraith gonna survive this?

I'd really like to know how many Wraith hives there are since we now know about the Replicator Aurora-class ships

marielabbott
December 8th, 2007, 08:41 AM
This is the episode I’ve been waiting for all season…and to say that it was a disappointment is an understatement. Not being a SG-1 fan, I’m not familiar with the episodes everyone else is saying it is a copy of, but I have seen the Star Trek: Voyager episode where a duplicate crew doesn’t know they are duplicates and then realizes it. They also die in the end. It’s not an original concept and I found it dull and predictable.

When Torri finally appeared, it was great to see her. Her presence on screen is palpable, as is her chemistry with the rest of the cast. I was even impressed with her scenes with Jewel; I think they were Jewel’s best so far, and I’m not a big Keller fan. But, in a simple line, we discover the real Weir is dead. Yes, perhaps there will be a twist later this season (which would be fantastic), but as repliWeir states, why would repliKeller lie? To have a favorite character offed in such a way, and to spend the rest of the episode watching a copy, is depressing. I think it’s a disservice to the character and to the character’s fans.

I sort of liked the final scenes with Radek, Rodney, and Sheppard. I say sort of because they were powerful, emotional, and wonderfully acted, but I think there was a missing scene that really should have been included. Sheppard states that he’s going to approve the removal of Elizabeth’s personal items…is that all the closure we’re going to get? Whatever else I thought about Sunday, I found Carson’s funeral touching and moving. Don’t you think Elizabeth Weir, who has led Atlantis for three years, saved the city on more than one occasion, and assembled the rest of our beloved expedition deserves a memorial service? Even if the twist is to bring the real Weir back, it would have made that twist even more surprising. More importantly, it would give the audience at least a semblance of closure. And don’t you think the other Atlantis characters—who consider her family—would want to honor her in some way, to stand united in their grief before they internalize it and we probably never hear of it again? Even if it was a three minute scene, it would have added powerfully to the episode to have that grief and angst hanging over everyone’s head as we discover the presence of the Replicator ships, because as it was, the cliff hanger did not spark my interest in watching the next episode.

It was great to see Torri again, but all around, this episode was a major, major disappointment.

girlinabox
December 8th, 2007, 08:42 AM
Good episode. I give it a 9/10. I'll miss Weir and its sad to see her go. I like Carter on SGA and it feels a little strange to me when she's not in an episode. IMO

However, I can't wait to see what happens in BAMSR!

kymeric
December 8th, 2007, 09:10 AM
How similar do they have to be till theyre the real thing? Seriously if i was dead and someone had recreated my body and mind perfectly id consider it me. Hell i'd prolly be ok with it #$%^ing my wife too.

Shes got Weirs body and mind. Thats weir enough for me.

Domesticated Equine
December 8th, 2007, 09:20 AM
The clones thing has been done a lot of times in scifi and it does offer some interesting possibilities for the writers: They can explore issues like how we define ourselves, how people react to multiple copies of the same person and what it feels like to be an outsider in your own life. The big payoff is that the writers can kill off their main characters without, you know, actually killing them off.

I feel the show would have been better off by keeping the copies for a longer arc, at least one or two more episodes. Killing them off at the end of this episode didn't really allow us the time to get to bond with them so the emotional impact was quite minimal. Besides, the original team got off very easy this way as they didn't have to spend a lot of time thinking about their copies and what rights they should have, etc.

I think Farscape handled the same concept very well when they cloned Crichton, but made each copy equal. They kept both Crichtons long enough for there to be considerable emotional fallout for both the characters and the viewers when they finally killed off one of them.

Anyway, this was not a bad episode and still quite a step up from last season. I don't think SGA has the ambition to try some of the things Farscape and BSG did, but as long as it remains entertaining, I can live with that.

AnaB
December 8th, 2007, 09:43 AM
Hey! My first post... hello everyone! :)


marielabbott... you took the words out of my mouth! I agree a million percent with you! Major let down.

I personally don't believe Weir is dead! Or least I wanna believe that.
This season needs a good, solid plot twist and if the real Weir shows up in her last ep, even to be killed off then, that would do for me.

That way we get to say goodbye properly and not with just a 'oh, sorry! She's dead'

Callie
December 8th, 2007, 09:43 AM
I really enjoyed this episode, but I can’t help thinking how much more shocking the big reveal would have been if the writers hadn’t killed off Carson and the Replicator leader had been RepliBeckett.

As for the Aurora count - I make it 40: six on the first run, 8 on the second, 15 on the third and about 11 after the fade-out. (I can’t be certain on the last one - even though I slowed the recording down I just couldn't keep up with the beeping.)

Elflinn
December 8th, 2007, 10:32 AM
May I just say that I loved this ep!!
At first it didn't seem like there was anything up at all just normal Atlantis stuff! And, I love the banter with Shep/Mckay in this ep! I love when Shep tells MK that he screwed up! I also loved the line about Rodney's sandwich exploding!! That was freaking hilarious!! But, the sparring with Ronon and Shep! OMG! SQUEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE EEEEE!!!! I absolutely loved it! Ronon getting him back in a way after DG!!! You tell that Ronon liked that he whacked Shep in the head and caused a gash with visible drippy blood for a trip to the infirmary for stitches!!! SQUEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE! That scene was so for the whumpers!!!! But, what I noticed is Keller acting she was on drugged! But, when it was revealed she was replicator it made sense! I liked JS in this ep! To me, she did an awesome job as the 'leader of the replicator Atlantis Team' if you will. That's a lot coming from me because, I've had a hard time trying to get passed how whiny she is, so points for her. The total RepliElizabeth angle was cool. I was expecting it to be the real Elizabeth. That angle was spot on for me. What I do have to do is watch ep again because, I didn't catch how they got the info from the Carson angle though. I didn't remember him with them in Progeny when they had their minds probed to extract the info. There was Shep, Teyla, Mckay, Ronon, and Elizabeth but, no Carson with them then. Unless, they got the info from Carson during the Return Pt. 2. even though, they only showed Woolsey and O'Neill getting mind probed. When the our team met up with the Repliteam that was hilarious!!!!!! I was ROFL and Squeeeing inwardly because, I could not freak everyone our in the house!!! I loved the Mckays and Sheppys reacting to each other!! Classic!! I really liked how this ep gelled together. The last couple haven't really flowed like that and you can tell the actors seemed to enjoy being all together. The Ronon's were hilarious and HOT! I love SHEP!! But, my gosh two Ronons is breath taking!! I don't think they can do that very much as they will send the younger girlies into comas!! Us older ones can handle well, because, let face ladies! What's better than one Shep and Ronon? FOUR of them, BABY!! SQUEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!! To me, I consider this ep as one of my Christmas gifts just for that moment in the PJ with the twin Ronons and Sheppykins! I did like how they actually had JT actually sitting next to each other and had the walking to the infirmary! I really think think they should go ahead and reveal the pregnancy already. I know that Teyla just is only supposedly a few weeks along or so, but, they may have to start making the P-90 even bigger for her to carry to conceal it more. She is really showing. The jacket to me just made it show more. And, also, another thing to let you know that they were the Repliteam was that Teyla and Mckay were wearing the old jackets not the new uniforms for this season. There is even a line between the MK's where replia one compliments the real one on his new one!! It's great!! Now the repliateam in the jumper when the replicators find them. You know that they shoot RShep but, you don't know about the others. I am not so sure that they are going to pop in the future again. Which wouldn't be a bad thing. You can definitely tell that this was a Brad Wright story concept. It made sense. And the the moment with Shep and Mckay at the end was very touching. And, when the Replicator Asurian ships kept popping up that was great!! The score (music) was kick ass in this! it reminded of Allies and The Storm!! Great!! I loved the OH CRAP! at the end!! Classic!!! One of things I noticed is that this ep did not seem to drag like the Seer and Miller's Crossing did to me. And, the editing was done a lot better in this one than MC also. Now, I have to wait until Jan. 4th! It's seems like a lifetime but, hey that's better than 7 mos.!!!!! I will believe it when I see them return Jan 4th if Sci-Fi has a brain cell left at all!! They still have not redeemed themselves for treating SGA like the unwanted step child in my book. But, I am willing if they do their part on their end!

I loved this episode! I have never scene the eps of SG-1 everyone is comparing it too because, I've only really watched SGA from the beginning faithfully. So, this is the first time for me seeing this play out and it is Outstanding! Though, I do not think the real Weir is dead because they did keep mentioning it to much for me. It just doesn't seem like it is the end and I am not a die hard Weir fan either. I really liked her this ep too! If it's not the real Weir then it's the RepliaWeir or whatever. I am anxiously awaiting the return on Jan 4th. I definitely want to see how this all plays out!!

I give a 9/10!

Wraith_Boy
December 8th, 2007, 10:37 AM
Give this ep a 6 out of 10!

Outcome was easily predicable. Duplicates get killed or captured by the Asurans at the end of the ep. Vision is sorted out & shown to be a fake. Atlantis remains & now everything is all dandy again.

Points I though were stupid:

1) Asurans not only manage to escape detection from the others, but they can only get a single ZPM, yet manage to get a whole cityship from under the others noses.

2) A whole ZPM is wasted on cloning 5 people, conveniently using up all the power stopping them from being able to raise any shields.

3) Asurans all sit around not trying to escape & let themselves be destroyed. Basically putting a huge end to the whole rebel faction thing to allow them to ascend.

4) We see the duplicates escape the planet & piggyback on a PJ to Asuras. The PJ doesn't have a hyperdrive, so presumably they got a much bigger Asuran ship with one. Shy why in the ep was it not mentioned or shown. Surely such a ship would have come in mega handy for the real team to be using. Not to mention the fact that they could actually get into an Asuran shipyard in the 1st place. Start it up & get outta there without being stopped!

5) We see them be able to contact an off-world base/camp. They then contact Atlantis & replay the info. This is despite the fact that Atlantis was moved & so probably every other base/camp etc. I highly doubt with the Asurans looking to destroy Atlantis, that the expedition decide it's totally fine to leave old bases intact. Asurans popup out of the blue grab them, probe them, get the gate address to Atlantis. Do a little bit of calculation & discover the exact position & planet where Atlantis is located. There is no way in hell that these duplicates should have been able to contact anybody. Simply because every base or whatever that they knew of would have been changed the moment Weir fell into enemy hands.

6) These duplicates bring the ship to the base/camp (which they shouldn't have known about in the 1st place btw), instead of placing it on a safe world then traveling to the backup planet through the gate. This way Asurans track the ship down, but there is no threat because duplicates are safely on another planet.

To me it's another cheap ploy like last season exactly like with the Lanteans. Ignores the obvious to allow them to write the story the way they want it to go!

7) Why the need to give them a whole Lantean city to do their stuff. Why not do the same thing as we saw in S3. Infect them with nanites & allow them to dream their lives, then record, monitor & study the results. This way they could conduct the experiments in a safe enviroment without risking getting everyone caught by doing them in a wide open huge city that's just begging to be detected.

8) Right at the end we see the duplicates take off in a PJ. Why did it take all of them if they knew they could never get away. Why not Shep simply take the PJ, lead them on a wild goose chase, the other duplicates could have all gone back with the original team (even if only to another planet & not Atlantis directly).

We saw over 30 Aurora class ships, plus the rest as it was still beeping even when dark. Then there is all the other classes of ships they have, as well as the others that they are gonna output in the near future. There are only around 50+ Hives left, so that's less than 2 Hive ships for each Asuran warship. So right now the Asurans should have the Wraith almost wiped out. Yet what's the best we'll see that there are still plenty of Hives left & the Asuran ships haven't nearly done enough to dent the Wraith's ship numbers.

For me the writing is too predictable! The plots are convenient & contrived. Where basics are ignored to allow them to pan out the story the way they want it to go. Always at the end of the ep or the very next one, the magic reset button has been hit & everything is back the way it was ready for the next ep.

Ruffles
December 8th, 2007, 10:44 AM
Not really, the visions usually came true to the people that witnessed them. So if they didn't plan on having AT in the ep, then they should have given the vision to Shep or even Ronon etc.

I don't believe Teyla was present (in the room) when her vision came true. And if the seer had given the vision to Shep or Ronon, what difference would it have made? They weren't there either. The duplicates are the ones that witnessed the destruction of RepliAtlantis.


It was said the Replicators knew everything that the clones knew. So how could theya ctually contact an off-world team in the first place because all the off-world sites would have been compromised the moment Weir fell into enemy hands.

Right then, every off-world site or base would have been changed up. So there is no way they could have went to an old base & found the humans to still be there using it even despite the fact the Asurans know about it. All the Asurans need to do is go to it, grab the people in it, probe their minds. Learn the gate address, then use it to calculate the exact position of Atlantis in the galaxy. Send ships this time & make sure it doesn't get away.

I was not under the impression the off-world team that Weir contacted was a base. When the major radioed in, they didn't refer to it as the beta site. They referred to it by its planetary designation M**-*** (whatever it was). I thought they were on a mission.

Skyler
December 8th, 2007, 10:50 AM
Its been a long time since I posted, but I thought I would offer a theory as to what I think might be going on with Weir.. (well two theories!)

I think one of two things can possibly be going on, given that Torri has one more episode she is going to apear in this season (total of 4)

Theory #1: Repli!Keller was telling the truth and she was not deceived by Oberoth and the "real" Weir as killed, however, the Repli!Weir didn't die. Notice how we never see her body in the jumper? We see (in order of camera angle, if I remember correctly): Teyla, Ronon, and then McKay right beside Sheppard, and then lastly Sheppard (who is shot by the Replicator) Also note that when the Replicators came into the jumper it was already open in the back. So for me, she's not dead unless they saw a body or her actual death.. this IS sci fi remember?

Theory #2: The "real" Weir is not dead, but disconnected from the collective mind of the Replicators by Oberoth because of her influcence on the others. She was not "killed" but he faked her death (or just plain lied about it) to make the "dissentient" replicators think she is dead. The real Weir is locked away somewhere and Oberoth is trying to break her "spirit" that has caused him so much trouble. And Repli!Weir, well I still don't think she is dead.

I think this whole "she's dead and lets get rid of her things" it not a confirmation of her death, I think this is a chess move by Oberoth in a much bigger plan than just squishing the "rebellion" Replicators.

Just my two cents.

Killdeer
December 8th, 2007, 11:00 AM
I was disappointed in this episode. It was everything I feared, and nothing that I hoped. I wanted to see the real Weir, and have her interact with the real team. Instead everything just felt strange. It was nice to see Torri, but.... you know how they say "you don't know what you got 'til it's gone?" Yeah. That's how I feel. I can't really enjoy this, since I have zero hope that TPTB will bring Torri back, and I was hoping for some closure on her story, a real goodbye. This was just...... Why are they doing this? Everything seems to indicate that there's no intention of bringing her back, and the top-secret fourth episode appearance seems, from the "four episodes but really two" comment, to be just a small appearance. So why not give us some closure, and let us say goodbye? Killing her off-screen - I have no words.

I don't want to see repli-weir. I never did. I have zero interest in a continuing repli-weir storyline. I want the real Weir, and if they're not going to bring the real Weir back, I want to be able to say goodbye. I am so irritated right now.......

It was nice to get some reaction from Rodney, but Shep's reaction was..... very off to me. If we'd had some indication that things might not be as they seem - that this might have been the real Weir after all, something. Why....if they were going to kill Weir -the REAL Weir off permanantly, why didn't they do it onscreen? That just .....

I really enjoyed the first five episodes of this season, except for a few details. These last five have really left me feeling dissatisfied. They're not bad, but they're not good either. The exception being the last ten minutes of MC - that was a punch that left me sitting up and taking notice for once, instead of feeling rather let down at the end of the episode. I don't know. I don't like where this season is heading. It had a lot of potential in the beginning....but now I'm really not feeling the love. :(

And now I really do need to stop and go get over my irritation somewhere else. I might possibly post my thoughts on other aspects of the show later, but....we'll see.


And for the record, all of the above is only my own opinion on all subjects referenced, and I do not attempt to speak for any other fan or fandom group, or to dissuade others from their own ideas and opinions regarding the subjects referenced. Add other disclaimers as needed.

UNRE4L
December 8th, 2007, 11:01 AM
I normally agree with you guys on the reviews, but not this time.

This episode didnt do the least bit for me. I am not quite sure why, but the episode felt so rushed. Its like they are trying to speed through everything.
And generally speaking it was just...bad.

I think it might be because most scenarios they are playing out have already been used in SG1, and I am getting so bored of it.
I used to love the idea of Ancients and their general mysterious nature. Thats what SGA was all about. Now the writers switched the storylines of SG1 and SGA.

SG1 got the storyline involving the ancients, and SGA has been thrown the storyline involving the replicators.
After 10 years of SG1, I was hoping for something different, but seriously, this is getting tiring.

I want the Ancients back. Or maybe I have had too much of SG :(

ussrelativity
December 8th, 2007, 11:16 AM
Any word on screencaps yet?

Shan Bruce Lee
December 8th, 2007, 11:42 AM
It was said the Replicators knew everything that the clones knew. So how could theya ctually contact an off-world team in the first place because all the off-world sites would have been compromised the moment Weir fell into enemy hands.

That's not what I said. I said they found an off-world team not an alpha site or anything like that. They just went looking for SG teams that were out exploring.

Shan Bruce Lee
December 8th, 2007, 11:44 AM
I was not under the impression the off-world team that Weir contacted was a base. When the major radioed in, they didn't refer to it as the beta site. They referred to it by its planetary designation M**-*** (whatever it was). I thought they were on a mission.

Right. That's what I was saying.

WormholeAlien
December 8th, 2007, 11:48 AM
So ... They're the last five cylons .... :-)

metabog
December 8th, 2007, 12:05 PM
So now I am 100% convinced Carson will be a replicator flesh-and-blood replica in The Kindred.

sueKay
December 8th, 2007, 12:07 PM
Nope...we were told that Carson would be *our* Carson...not a clone or an ascended being or a replica

IcyNeko
December 8th, 2007, 12:09 PM
Did we? All I heard was flesh and blood Carson. They said it wouldn't be a replicator Carson (ie: Made from replicator metals and such). But I think it's pretty significant that the script even had the repliclones saying "we're flesh and blood", as if to nod to what Joe had said in his blog.

Ruined_puzzle
December 8th, 2007, 12:11 PM
So ... They're the last five cylons .... :-)

Totally. They are much hotter too than the BSG final five.

IcyNeko
December 8th, 2007, 12:17 PM
I dunno mang. I liked Tigh myself... especially that last speech. :O

Chezlee
December 8th, 2007, 12:28 PM
So now I am 100% convinced Carson will be a replicator flesh-and-blood replica in The Kindred.

that was the object of my 10 second fantasy right after Keller told the team that they were made afrom the info when their minds were scanned but I do not believe that Carson will be a replicator flesh and blood or otherwise, also JM also said that Carson's return would be "the product of his [Carson's] own genious i.e. retrovirus or some such thing.

sueKay
December 8th, 2007, 12:30 PM
I can't remember...did Carson get his brain probed?

P2J
December 8th, 2007, 12:33 PM
I can't remember...did Carson get his brain probed?

i dont' think so he wasn't apart of the team during Progeny

sueKay
December 8th, 2007, 12:39 PM
So if his mind wasn't probed...they can't make a copy of him

IcyNeko
December 8th, 2007, 12:45 PM
Perhaps he'll return based on his act to keep DNA of all members on file (how he helped Evolved McKay) and the cloning efforts of the replicaters.

Cap116
December 8th, 2007, 12:47 PM
So is the destruction of the fake Atlantis, does anyone think that could be the vision that Sam had in "The Seer?"

Skydiver
December 8th, 2007, 01:00 PM
oh y eah, it matched exactly.

what the seer showed her was the destruction of atlantis, just not the 'real' atlantis

Integrabyte
December 8th, 2007, 01:07 PM
oh y eah, it matched exactly.

what the seer showed her was the destruction of atlantis, just not the 'real' atlantis


TPTB took the easy way out....

jelgate
December 8th, 2007, 01:09 PM
TPTB took the easy way out....So you wanted Atlantis to be destroyed. Interesting

Killdeer
December 8th, 2007, 01:13 PM
So you wanted Atlantis to be destroyed

It was just extremely predictible. I think a lot of people guessed that it would be the Replicator Atlantis as soon as The Seer aired.

s09119
December 8th, 2007, 01:20 PM
It was just extremely predictible. I think a lot of people guessed that it would be the Replicator Atlantis as soon as The Seer aired.

How so? The only Replicator Atlantis we'd seen up to that point was in the middle of the captiol on Asuras, and the city in the vision was sitting on an ocean.

Domesticated Equine
December 8th, 2007, 01:24 PM
So I take it Carson is going to appear later in the season? While hearing spoilers about this show is not exactly the end of the world, I would have preferred to be surprised by this. Any chance this could be discussed elsewhere?

Integrabyte
December 8th, 2007, 01:25 PM
How so? The only Replicator Atlantis we'd seen up to that point was in the middle of the captiol on Asuras, and the city in the vision was sitting on an ocean.

...but it was a replicator Atlantis. Maybe not on Asuras, but it was a replicator.

P2J
December 8th, 2007, 01:27 PM
well there can't destroy atlantis anymore then it already is. the citty has taken a beating this year. so to see the other city being wiped out was ojk for me

Emre
December 8th, 2007, 01:50 PM
Talk about an awesome episode. The whole "We're duplicates/replicators" thing was done really well - Kellers transformation was REALLY cool, but the McKay duo was the epitome of awesomeness.

The ending was quite sad though. Poor Elizabeth.

Kael
December 8th, 2007, 02:44 PM
I gotta say a few things about the episode. Loved it. But as always, where's Carter? Half the time, I don't even remember she's supposed to be a regular on the show. It's hard to form an opinion of her as the leader if she's almost always missing. Another thing; was it just me, or was it a little confusing when they got to the Replicator homeworld? Didn't they say they were going to steal a replicator ship? Did that happen? Where did it go? Is that what was tracked when the bad guys showed up later? It got a little fuzzy for me.

Finally, the last thing I have issue with is at the end, when the replicates sacrificed themselves to get the real team back to Atlantis, why did they need to sacrifice all of them? Sheppard's clone could have flown the jumper all by himself. I suppose it was made clear that they could not have allowed them in Atlantis, but they could have gated to another random planet to make a more thoughtful decision of their future. Though maybe it was decided from the beginning that they wouldn't even be allowed to exist, and so instead of being executed by Atlantis personnel, they chose certain death by the other Replicators. Nah, the real team wouldn't have left them the chance to survive if that was their intent. Hm. I can't figure it out. Beyond simply erasing the copies to reset the episode.

Of course now that I've nitpicked, I have to say this was one of the best episodes. It was awesome.

Falcon Horus
December 8th, 2007, 02:50 PM
And so I have watched TMC...

First word that comes to mind to describe the "highly anticipated" episode of the first half of season 4:

BLAND

:mckay:

positive points:

* giggled....
- every time Rachel was on screen.
She looks so adorable... and big. :D
So, do the others finally know or are they assuming Teyla's been eating like a horse lately? :S
- Ronon kicking Sheppard's butt
That was some nice fighting.
- 2 Rodney's
If only we could have kept the other one. The Atlantis IQ would have skyrocketed. :p
- Rodney's "Oh crap..." at the end

* smiled...
- seeing Elizabeth for the first time
I really, really miss her presence. Torri was fantastic, though she didn't surpass her superior acting in Lifeline.
- Sheppard & Sheppard meeting
Not as much fun as the McKay's
- Ronon talking about his duplicate and the other way around
- Rodney and Radek in the lab

* everybody had some time and was used one way or another

* the city can handle itself without Carter
We really don't need her around. That much is obvious. It's not like she's contributing to the story anyway.

negative points:

* this was a story with potential, unfortunately the potential was wasted big time. It was bland to say the least.

* killing off Elizabeth Weir off-screen ... that's the way to do it - NOT!! :weir44:

* if you want to keep up pretense, try not to use different clothing. Even though the replicaters in charge of the experiment didn't know about the whole costume change... It kinda spoiled the fun out of it, if there had been fun in the first place.

* I came || this close to turning the episode off. But Lizzie stopped me from acting on that impulse.

* "highly anticipated", yet it did not deliver...

Agent_Dark
December 8th, 2007, 02:52 PM
* the city can handle itself without Carter
We really don't need her around. That much is obvious. It's not like she's contributing to the story anyway.

hmm, so carter is doing exactly what weir did (according to some) but the city can handle itself without carter which means she's not needed. Ergo, the city can handle itself fine without weir and she wasn't needed either.

Integrabyte
December 8th, 2007, 02:53 PM
hmm, so carter is doing exactly what weir did (according to some) but the city can handle itself without carter which means she's not needed. Ergo, the city can handle itself fine without weir and she wasn't needed either.


*snowball fight* :D

Falcon Horus
December 8th, 2007, 03:05 PM
*snowball fight* :D

Sorry! There's no snow where I am.

Integrabyte
December 8th, 2007, 03:07 PM
Sorry! There's no snow where I am.

We share the same misfortune :(.

Pillow fight? :D

Agent_Dark
December 8th, 2007, 03:11 PM
Probably the most average episode of teh season. the whole 'fake team' thing was a waste, because who cares about them? They didnt give us a single reason too. In fact, the splinter group of asurans were more interesting than the fake team. The episode would have been far more interesting if it had of been about them.
Weir? meh. It wasn't even the real weir, and it has the same problem as the fake team. Who cares about the fake copy? we have no reason too. I did like that the real weir died off-screen, just like that. It was far more realistic than a death like Carsons (which did have a lol factor I must admit). I would have been a bit annoyed had the real weir got a 'heroes death', because teh simple matter is that her character wasn't a hero. Sheppard and Ronon and Teyla etc are heroes, not Weir. The scene where she's left behind in lifeline was a good one, and I'm glad they didn't ruin it by having a campy death for her.

As usual, Ronon got the best stuff. Staring down his fake version was lol. two Mckays talking were kinda lol, but its been done before with multiple Carter's in sg1. Though it'd be funny to have multiple McKays and multiple Carter's lol.

And the ending was lame. Wasn't this supposed to be a mid-season ender? Two/Three parter? going to a black screen with little bleeps and McKay saying 'oh crap' was lame.

s09119
December 8th, 2007, 03:13 PM
Sorry! There's no snow where I am.

Want to borrow some of mine? It'll help me clear my driveway faster :)

Falcon Horus
December 8th, 2007, 03:13 PM
Pillow fight? :D

I have plenty of pillows... Or should I say ammo? :p

Integrabyte
December 8th, 2007, 03:14 PM
Want to borrow some of mine? It'll help me clear my driveway faster :)

FedEX some snow for us ;).



I have plenty of pillows... Or should I say ammo?

...plammo :D

Falcon Horus
December 8th, 2007, 03:16 PM
FedEX some snow for us ;).

What he said.


...plammo :D

LOL!! :D

jelgate
December 8th, 2007, 03:19 PM
*launches two enemorous snowballs at Intergrabyte and FH*

s09119
December 8th, 2007, 03:19 PM
FedEX some snow for us ;).

Something tells me they're not gonna take a box that falls apart when lifted more than 5 inches off the ground ;)

Integrabyte
December 8th, 2007, 03:20 PM
*launches two enemorous snowballs?* at Intergrabyte and FH*


By the time they get here they'll evaporate. Aim at TPTB, you might have a higher chance of success !

Falcon Horus
December 8th, 2007, 03:22 PM
*launches two enemorous snowballs?* at Intergrabyte and FH*

*brings up personal shield* :D

We are woefully off-topic too btw...

I shall add that yes, Carter is doing the same Weir did, but at least Elizabeth did it better. She at least belongs in the city, while the blond has no business there.

Integrabyte
December 8th, 2007, 03:24 PM
*brings up personal shield* :D

We are woefully off-topic too btw...

I shall add that yes, Carter is doing the same Weir did, but at least Elizabeth did it better. She at least belongs in the city, while the blond has no business there.

Seeing S4, Atlantis does not need Weir,Carter,Teyla and Heightmeyer. Mortal coil was the last straw!

jelgate
December 8th, 2007, 03:25 PM
*brings up personal shield* :D

We are woefully off-topic too btw...

I shall add that yes, Carter is doing the same Weir did, but at least Elizabeth did it better. She at least belongs in the city, while the blond has no business there.

I fear that this thread will turn into a Carter vs Weir debate. Anyway, who is to say that Weir belongs to the city. Why is it automatically hers.

Jumper_One
December 8th, 2007, 03:29 PM
I fear that this thread will turn into a Carter vs Weir debate. Anyway, who is to say that Weir belongs to the city. Why is it automatically hers.

dude you really wanna start this discussion?

Agent_Dark
December 8th, 2007, 03:35 PM
I fear that this thread will turn into a Carter vs Weir debate. Anyway, who is to say that Weir belongs to the city. Why is it automatically hers.

Dunno, I mean if Carter is doing exactly the same as Weir then it would imply that Weir never made the role hers but was instead following the formula of the 'Leader of Atlantis' position.

I think its actually, for the most part, just because the Sheppard/Weir shippers don't want to face the fact that their ship is now 'wrong', ie it wont ever happen. Sam/Jack shippers are the same, just look at their reaction to anything that gets in the way of it. That's the problem with the stargate shows, at least in the fandom. Too much investments in a character pairing, and not enough in the show itself. Really, if you want a character pairing, go grab a romance novel and edit your preferred character names in.

Jumper_One
December 8th, 2007, 03:41 PM
Dunno, I mean if Carter is doing exactly the same as Weir then it would imply that Weir never made the role hers but was instead following the formula of the 'Leader of Atlantis' position.

that's an interesting point, I never saw it like that


I think its actually, for the most part, just because the Sheppard/Weir shippers don't want to face the fact that their ship is now 'wrong', ie it wont ever happen. Sam/Jack shippers are the same, just look at their reaction to anything that gets in the way of it. That's the problem with the stargate shows, at least in the fandom. Too much investments in a character pairing, and not enough in the show itself. Really, if you want a character pairing, go grab a romance novel and edit your preferred character names in.

at least the S/J shippers have something to ship. what do Shep/Weir shippers have or rather what did they have? but I agree people should invest more in the show

elbo
December 8th, 2007, 03:44 PM
Bad things:

1. The destruction of the Atlantis replica has no connection with Samantha Carter who didn't even show up in this episode, unfortunately, so the Davos vision, watched retroactive is useless, confusing and offered to the wrong person.

2. The Atlantis replica/expedition was created with no leader. And the memory scans from Shep's team + the update for Weir are not even close enough to create in dept every member of the expedition phiscal and mental profile.

3. Too much ressemblance with the SG1 'comtraya' episode, but without the same revelation/surprise effect because of the major and unecesary spoilers released; plus the annoying clishe when the clone-teams always die in the end because they are not the 'original'.

Good things:

1. The red chick with annoying voice and default lines is dead, won't bother us again and no TH in S5. Amen.

2. The expedition aquired a new piece of tracking tech without sweting. How often do we get this?

3. Just one week (?) remains until the real action.

garhkal
December 8th, 2007, 03:55 PM
How many Asuran ships were in this episode?

Lets see. WE had the one attacking Repli-Atlantis. We had the 2 over the planet that shep and co went to, and we had all those popping up on that device's screen after Mccay got it to work.


A very good ep....but what about them new cruisers one of which shot down the jumper......never seen them before?

Actually i think we did. It looked to me to be the same as the one from Lifeline that they got into a battle with after escaping from Asura.


They steal a replicator ship, and they've GOT to know it has a RepliLoJack in it and take it to a planet where they've got a team. would it not have made more sense to abandon the ship on an uninhabited

Being at this time they have not come accross any other ships with a 'lojack' type of device, i seriously doubt they would have thought the Asurans had one on their ship. BUT i do agree, it would have probabily made more sense to go to a neutral planet then walk to that other one. BUT who is to say they did not do that and the asurans tracked them by scanning the control crystals of that planet...



best scene in this episode. Zelenka and Rodney talking about WEir at the end, and Rodney finding it wonderful that he can lose himself in his work so he doens't have to think about it, and mentioning Carson.

Agreed. This was one of their best duo moments, imo even better than Tao where they were good together.


But all the Repliships popping up like cockroaches sort of left me queasy in that we'll probably get more replicator storylines in the future.... I'd rather get back to the wraith. Speaking of which, wonder how the Common Ground wraith is doing...

I do believe that is their plan. To focus on the Asurans as more of our enemy now, than the Wraith.


That bothers me. Davos was showing people a vision from their own lives and he showed the Atlantis destruction to Carter. Carter wasn't even in this episode and had nothing to do with the destruction, nor was she there, so why didn't Davos show this to Sheppard?

I would like to know that too. Since this all happened to Asuran copies of our main group and carter was not even there, why did he show this to Carter and not Shepard?



Oh, and I must admit I loved the stick fighting scene between Ronon and Shep. Whoa, that was good!

That it was. Any martial artists out there know if they were using any actual martial art like Kendo or Kenjitsu?


Got to admit, I laughed my head off when realSheppard commented "Last time I saw a copy of myself, I got my assed kicked". Classic.

I am surprised he even mentioned that... Since not once this episode did we see him or Mccay comment on Millers crossing or what happened in that ep..


I kept wondering what the copy Teyla would think once she learned about "her people". I don't know.

Who is to say our Teyla told the Copy Teyla of that incident.. Especially since she is probabily still seething from it.



* McKay's instincts being right - he knew something was wrong but didn't know what - loved his warning to John
* RepliKeller - she scared me when she was talking with Lorne the first time (always good to see Lorne!). An interesting choice for the boss of DupAtlantis
* Ronon holding McKay as John slices his hand open - a testament to his evolving maturity that he didn't squeal more

ALl three of those were great aspects of the Alt Atlantis.. And i loved it how even the Repli-Mccay still was squirmish of knives after the incident from the Eye and the Storm.



* the sacrifice of RepliKeller - staying behind and dying rather than being a risk

That was sweet. She knew they would not take her and her sacrificing herself showed how much they wanted to be different.



* an interesting resolution to Davos' vision - since the rebel Replicators have all been destroyed, they will no longer be a distraction (a hindrance?) to Oberoth and his domination. Their destruction might be more significant than we realize right now.

Ohh, that is an interesting point. It makes me wonder if their doing what they did has kept the Asurans from hunting us down more.



* John trying to figure out a way to get Weir back to Atlantis. He just never gives up.

no he does not. And that is one of the few aspects of him i love.



* the conversation between Radek and Rodney at the end - this is the highlight of the ep for me. Radek's realization of Rodney's avoidance; Rodney's mention of Carson and how losing Weir is like that and he just isn't ready to deal; Radek's offer to talk and Rodney's temporary refusal; and finally Rodney thanking Radek. I knew you had it in you, McKay. Well done.

If i have just one screen pic of the episode saved, that would be it. Brilliant acting from 2 of our best.


Whatever else I thought about Sunday, I found Carson’s funeral touching and moving. Don’t you think Elizabeth Weir, who has led Atlantis for three years, saved the city on more than one occasion, and assembled the rest of our beloved expedition deserves a memorial service? Even if the twist is to bring the real Weir back, it would have made that twist even more surprising. More importantly, it would give the audience at least a semblance of closure. And don’t you think the other Atlantis characters—who consider her family—would want to honor her in some way, to stand united in their grief before they internalize it and we probably never hear of it again? Even if it was a three minute scene, it would have added powerfully to the episode to have that grief and angst hanging over everyone’s head as we discover the presence of the Replicator ships, because as it was, the cliff hanger did not spark my interest in watching the next episode.

Part of me hopes your right. We had a pair of wonderful funerals, one in Heroes part 2 for Dr Fraiser after she died, and then again in Sunday for carson. So i wonder if since they seem to be showing the team giving up hope on Wier, they will eventually have one.
BUT there is also part of me that hopes they dont, as that will imo be a final nail in her coffin so to speak as they will finally be 'rid of her'..

Falcon Horus
December 8th, 2007, 04:11 PM
dude you really wanna start this discussion?

I don't. Just so you know.

Wilson3Girl
December 8th, 2007, 04:29 PM
I liked this episode. Like another poster mentioned, I didn't realize that I missed Elizabeth until I saw her again. Seeing her again, and seeing Rodney and Shep's reaction to seeing her (their facial expressions!) tugged at my heartstrings for sure.

Some favorite bits:
-the 2 Rodneys and the long-suffering look that Shep gave them
-Ronon kicking a snoring Rodney's seat
-Ronon pulling McKay back and saying 'wait'--then entering the room where they found repli-Elizabeth first, before Rodney
-the sweet talk between Zelenka and McKay about Carson and Elizabeth (Radek knows Rodney all too well)
-Shep checking on Rodney in his lab. and trying to scoot him off to get some rest and the back pats he gave McKay
-Rodney replying that Shep was also up past his usual bedtime
-Shep/McKay's little talk about mailing Elizabeth's stuff back to Earth :(

Wilson3Girl

jenks
December 8th, 2007, 04:36 PM
Bad things:

1. The destruction of the Atlantis replica has no connection with Samantha Carter who didn't even show up in this episode, unfortunately, so the Davos vision, watched retroactive is useless, confusing and offered to the wrong person.

Ah but as Davos said, all he sees is the vision, he can't put it into context and as far as he knew, that was Atlantis.


2. The Atlantis replica/expedition was created with no leader. And the memory scans from Shep's team + the update for Weir are not even close enough to create in dept every member of the expedition phiscal and mental profile.

That's why everyone was acting strangely. ;)


3. Just one week (?) remains until the real action.

Unfortunately we won't get that until January.

flameling
December 8th, 2007, 04:45 PM
interesting episode. So thje real Weir is dead... and mcKay said that it was Beckett all over again. Loved how Rodney interacted with himself. And when Ronon was the first to find RepliWeir. I also liked the look on their faces when they found out they were clones with Rodney trying to debunk them. And then Rodney finnally agreed with them, classic.

Jonzey
December 8th, 2007, 05:02 PM
Well I've only read the first page, but it seems like there's much love for this episode. I've enjoyed all of this season and I'm not usually picky about these things, but for me there were a lot of cool bits and a lot of annoying bits which made for a mediocre episode.

+ The concept of having an improved, nanite-enhanced version of the team out there seemed really cool.
- They were killed off. SG-1 did that first anyway.

+ It was good to see Weir again. I was never a huge fan of her character but I liked her.
- It wasn't our Weir, she was executed off screen ages ago apparantly. Why did she have to be in the jumper with the rest of the repliteam anyway?

+ The initial mystery of what's going on was cool.
- It fell apart when you learn the truth. How much of the true memories did the repliteam have? The last time the replis could probe anyones mind was Elizabeth, so they can't know anything from after that. Who was their supposed leader?

+ I liked how the team was all together...
-...but where was Sam? I missed her in this episode, she couldn't have really been in the first part, but when we got to the real team I thought she'd appear. I'm in favour of her coming to Atlantis, but it really feels like the writers are trying too hard to ease her in gently, to the point when you know she's missing, and is unnecessary when she's there.

+ The vision came true with a very cool scene
- It was Sam who saw the vision. She'll never know it happened. I was hoping it was a hint at something huge later on.

+ The repliteam's escape plan was very cool, right up until...
-...they say their gonna steal a ship. A ship we never see, never know what happens to it, never see them steal it, don't even know what type of ship it was. Very SG-1 season 8.

+ The very end of the episode was awesome, but...
-...is this really our midseason cliffhanger?

Ruined_puzzle
December 8th, 2007, 05:40 PM
I fear that this thread will turn into a Carter vs Weir debate. Anyway, who is to say that Weir belongs to the city. Why is it automatically hers.

Because without Weir/Janus the team would be dead and the city still underwater.