Ancients evolved abilities.. And the tria

[Superman195]

ok... So I've been thinking about this for a while... And I've been wondering why, in the few times we actually have seen ancients.. We've never seen them use their powers that they gained as they evolved... The only times I can think of seeing them actually use them is merlined Daniel, and the person they found frozen in Antarctica.. I forget her name...

And ever since i watched the return ive been wondering why the ascended ancients didn't help the crew of the tria... Now I know that they believe in noninterference on lower planes.. But the ancients on the tria were still ancients... You'd think the ascended ancients would help their own kind...

[jenks]

I wouldn't.

[jelgate]

ok... So I've been thinking about this for a while... And I've been wondering why, in the few times we actually have seen ancients.. We've never seen them use their powers that they gained as they evolved... The only times I can think of seeing them actually use them is merlined Daniel, and the person they found frozen in Antarctica.. I forget her name...

And ever since i watched the return ive been wondering why the ascended ancients didn't help the crew of the tria... Now I know that they believe in noninterference on lower planes.. But the ancients on the tria were still ancients... You'd think the ascended ancients would help their own kind...
The majority of ascended ancients believe that a person has to ascend on their own regardless of the race. If an Ancient is worthy to ascend he/she will do it on their own free will. Most Ancients believe that to help a person to ascend makes them bad as the Ori. (see Threads/The Quest)

[marty2006]

Ancients dont interfere. Ever heard that before.

[ciannwn]

And I've been wondering why, in the few times we actually have seen ancients.. We've never seen them use their powers that they gained as they evolved... The only times I can think of seeing them actually use them is merlined Daniel, and the person they found frozen in Antarctica.. I forget her name...

Merlin was exceptional even for an Ancient - he started out as Moros (who we saw in Before I Sleep) ascended after the Lanteans evacuated to Earth and then descended while managing to retain his knowledge and some super abilities. (The Pegasus Project). He didn't appear to have any super abilities in Before I Sleep, though, and neither did any of the other unascended Lanteans we've seen. It's hard to believe that a race which had evolved exceptional powers should have had so much trouble with Wraith and Asurans.

The other puzzle is the mysterious Repositories Of Knowledge. Why did the Lanteans put their database on a computer instead of having a system based on the Repository where they could download anything they wanted into their brains?


And ever since i watched the return ive been wondering why the ascended ancients didn't help the crew of the tria... Now I know that they believe in noninterference on lower planes.. But the ancients on the tria were still ancients... You'd think the ascended ancients would help their own kind...

The rule of non-interference includes unascended Ancients as well.

[Turboz]

The other puzzle is the mysterious Repositories Of Knowledge. Why did the Lanteans put their database on a computer instead of having a system based on the Repository where they could download anything they wanted into their brains?


You know I was wondering that myself just recently. It would be interesting to know if the writers of SGA actually follow SG-1 in depth at all because there are several inconsistencies with SGA which I would like them to clear up in a few shows. I too would like to know why the Ancients in atlantis are just like normal humans who use computers, and yet in the MW they were superhuman who relied upon the respository. Also, why does everything in atlantis revolve around tapping computer keys or swapping crystals? - what happened to good old fashioned tools? - The shield fails so they re-route power by tapping a few laptop keys and swapping some crystals. Whatever happened to ripping out wiring and replacing it? - Or welding bits back together? The ancient ship (was that what your referring to with the 'tria'?)... why didn't they simply swap some crystals and make their hyperdrive work eh? - Or use their advanced abilities and just magic their ship to functional state again...

Drones
I'd also like to know why the drones in "The lost city" which jack fires at the annubis fleet are like energy weapons and yet in atlantis they are physical objects which look like plastic squids. Not only that, but the drones in lost city were able to fly around annubis's super warriors and dissolve them - they didn't impact them and blow them up. Why have the drones suddenly turned into glowing missiles? Another drone point is that seeing as there were spares from the annubis fleet destruction and they only seemed to cut through not blow up, what happened to them? - they should still be in orbit around earth somewhere. Now seeing as they are able to maintain superslow flight (as seen around the warriors) why couldn't they return to the launch platform, and slowly reload themselves into the launch rack???

None of this makes any sense.

Ancient body preservation
What about the aurora.... and the ancient lady in ice for millions of years (when antlantis left) is preserved perfectly.... and magically comes back to life when thawed out. Whats with the aurora crews bodies being knackered after 10,000 in life & body preserving stasis pods? - Millions on years in ice or 10,000 specially designed stasis pods?? eh? What the..??


ZPMs
Whats with 1 zpm being hidden on each 5 planets? (before i sleep apparently). So, one ZPM can be depleted in days with the wraith firing at Atlantis. They have a 100 year war and their shields hold this whole time. Yet they only hide 5 spare ZPMs?

I work this out as 5 days average per ZPM. 365 days divided by 5 is 73 ZPMs per year. Multiply that by the 100 years and thats what, 7300 ZPMs needed?

The ancients only managed to stash away 5 spare ZPMs?

[ciannwn]

It would be interesting to know if the writers of SGA actually follow SG-1 in depth at all because there are several inconsistencies with SGA which I would like them to clear up in a few shows.

The unascended Ancients in SG1 were all very mysterious and we learned very little about them because the show focussed on the ascended Ancients/Others. My guess is that TPTB are hoping we'll forget the few snippets of information we were given because super powers and Repositories would have been too much of an inconvenience when setting the scene for SGA. :D

1: The Lanteans had to lose the war against the Wraith and evacuate the city. (Or opt for a permanent strategic withdrawal if one prefers to think that they didn't really lose. :) ) In order to make this remotely believable the Lanteans had to be without the Ancient super powers hinted at in SG1 and be incapable of devising a workable weapon in spite of their millions of years worth of scientific knowledge and discovery.

2: The Aurora crew had to be disposed off for plot purposes. Viewers were reminded of Ayiana in the very first scene of SGA when Atlantis left for the Pegasus galaxy so having Lanteans wither away in specially designed stasis pods was a bit of a lame reason for getting rid of them. Maybe we're supposed to wonder if Ayiana only had special powers because she'd embarked on the path to ascension. :)

3: The crew of the Tria had to be disposed of for plot purposes as well. If they'd had the kind of special powers Rodney developed via the ascension machine they wouldn't have been wiped out by the Asurans within a very short time.

4: The Repositories have to be 'forgotten about' so that the expedition humans can extract information from the Atlantis data base without frying their brains. Maybe we're supposed to think that Merlin invented the Repositories for unknown reasons after he'd descended. It's odd that the Asgard didn't seem to know much about them seeing as they were one of the races in the Great Alliance, though. Maybe they were just being mysterious around the SG1 team. :)

All of the above gives me the impression that TPTB just make things up as they go along. If so, vagueness is invaluable because it means they aren't tied down to much when it comes to future stories. :D

[FallenAngelII]

Not everyone gained super powers on the path to Ascension. And not everyone evolved to the point where they could Ascend at will either. Many Ancients simply died out naturally.

[BubblingOverWithIdeas]

According to Thor in "New Order", the Asgard once accessed an Ancient repository and learned much from it, but they have been continuing to download new information from it as long as he can remember and they've still only stratched the surface.

The Tria crew was disposed of for plot purposes, but they didn't have to be. It was physically possible for the writers to do something original and keep them around.

[Vala_M]

The difference between being frozen in ice and being in stasis is apparently that in ice, your body just basically stops aging or anything but somehow lives due to cold or something but in stasis, your body's aging is slowed, that is the difference. Statis = slowed down - Ice = Aging basically stopped

And the Asgard never said they used the repository, they just took parts of the Ancient database (In which way I don't know, computers like Atlantis, repositories or something else wasn't stated) but it was never said to be to repository for sure.

Vala,

[ciannwn]

Not everyone gained super powers on the path to Ascension. And not everyone evolved to the point where they could Ascend at will either. Many Ancients simply died out naturally.

It's just as well that Ayiana lost her memory because it saves the writers having to explain anything. As she was unable to give the SG1 team any details about unascended Ancients we can wonder if she was on the path to ascension when she was buried in the avalanche.


According to Thor in "New Order", the Asgard once accessed an Ancient repository and learned much from it, but they have been continuing to download new information from it as long as he can remember and they've still only stratched the surface.

So were these Repositories used only by such Ancients who happened to develop special abilities on the path to ascension? If so, why? Were they created by Merlin? If so, why? It would be nice if TPTB addressed these questions in SGA seeing as we discovered that the Lanteans didn't seem to have special abilities and needed to store all their information on a computer.


The difference between being frozen in ice and being in stasis is apparently that in ice, your body just basically stops aging or anything but somehow lives due to cold or something but in stasis, your body's aging is slowed, that is the difference. Statis = slowed down - Ice = Aging basically stopped

You'd think that a race with millions of years of scientific knowledge and expertise would have devised a preservation technique based on being frozen. :)

[PG15]

The other puzzle is the mysterious Repositories Of Knowledge. Why did the Lanteans put their database on a computer instead of having a system based on the Repository where they could download anything they wanted into their brains?

I have a pet postulate that those few repository we've seen were built by Ascended Ancients that have taken mortal form (i.e. Merlin); heck, for all we know they could've all been built by Merlin to make sure they meet at the end.



The rule of non-interference includes unascended Ancients as well.



Where was this stated?

[BubblingOverWithIdeas]

It wasn't explicitly stated, but can be assumed from the fact that ascended Ancients have not interfered on behalf of unascended ones such as the Tria and Aurora crews or Aiyana, and the fact that any unascended being is a lower life form on a lower plane to an ascended being, Ancient or otherwise.

I always thought the idea behind the Ancient repositories was that they were for others to use, not the Ancients themselves. They left their knowledge behind in the Milky Way for any successive race that would be advanced enough to access it safely. This may have been before they left for Pegasus or after they returned (before they ascended).

[PG15]

It wasn't explicitly stated, but can be assumed from the fact that ascended Ancients have not interfered on behalf of unascended ones such as the Tria and Aurora crews or Aiyana, and the fact that any unascended being is a lower life form on a lower plane to an ascended being, Ancient or otherwise.
.

Well...ok, that shows the Ascended Ancients won't interfere, but I don't see how that shows the Unascended Ancients will do the same. Heck, the Aurora crew saved our asses from the Wraith cruisers, and I call that interfering.

Or...you mean the Ascended Ancients don't interfere with any lower-lifeforms, including unascended versions of themselves? Ok, that'd make sense. I guess I just read it wrong.

[ciannwn]

Where was this stated?

What I meant was ascended Ancients wouldn't do anything to help unascended Ancients because that would be interfering with the lower plane.

From 'The Pegasus Project'.

MORGAN LE FAY: It was only some thousands of years later, upon seeing the threat the Ori could one day become, that Merlin retook his human form in order to create the weapon that you seek. He did everything within his power to keep his work secret, but we feared his intentions. I was sent to observe, and if necessary, to stop him.

VALA: Wait, right there. Just a minute. If he was human again, then you were interfering. You broke your own law.

Morgan Le Fay doesn't deny that they were breaking their law by interfering. This implies that helping any unascended Ancients would be against the law too and explains why the ascended Ancients didn't join in the war against the Wraith or stop the Asurans from killing the crew of the 'Tria'.

[Heaven]

I definitely liked it better when the ancient were super humans
even the wraith had cool super powers at first
the wraith can make you see things that aren't there and read your mind
but how often do we see them do that now?

they definitely dumbed down the Ancients
even their technology is not that impressive anymore

they replaced mind interface and holograms with screens and keyboards
and the last time we've seen some magical ancient device was the energy creature containment vessel, all the other technologies we've found in Atlantis are no different than any other advanced race.

[Vala_M]

I definitely liked it better when the ancient were super humans
even the wraith had cool super powers at first
the wraith can make you see things that aren't there and read your mind
but how often do we see them do that now?

they definitely dumbed down the Ancients
even their technology is not that impressive anymore

they replaced mind interface and holograms with screens and keyboards
and the last time we've seen some magical ancient device was the energy creature containment vessel, all the other technologies we've found in Atlantis are no different than any other advanced race.

Well, I just thought the Wraith stopped the "ghosts" because they knew the Atlantis team wasn't fooled by them.

And in regards to the Ancient devices changing from holographic stuff to physical stuff like computers, well, Sheppard can't run everything, there has to be something (From the point of view of the writers) that the average expedition member can use since it wouldn't be a good idea to make everyone like Sheppard.

Vala,