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    Ship in travelers #spoilers#

    could the ship in travelers be an older Ancient warship? cause when Sheppard is in the jail cell the cell looks totally different than the one on the Aurora. plus it doesn't have shields around the cell.

    edit. plus this ships weapons are still controlled through the chair. the Orions weapons were controlled through the control center. not a chair.
    Last edited by neoncrazy101; 08 November 2007, 09:30 AM.

    #2
    No, the Orion's drones were not controlled through the chair on the bridge. If you rewatch that episode you'll see Lorne is sitting on the chair when he tells Caldwell that he gave the order to fire, but nothing happened (not that he tried and it didn't work). Then he gets up to hover over Zelenka and he says firing drones while standing up next to Zelenka (nobody is in the chair at the time). Since we know you can't control drones by pressing a few buttons and nobody was sitting in the chair just then, we know someone in another part of the ship had to have been controlling of them. Until Travelers showed us that the control chair had its own room this didn't make sense, but now it fits perfectly.

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      #3
      Well I always thought that Lorne controlled the drones by placing his hands on the bridge console...
      "Yo, you wanna join SG-1?"

      sigpic

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        #4
        Originally posted by Xaeden View Post
        Since we know you can't control drones by pressing a few buttons
        Isn't that how you fire drones from a puddle jumber?

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          #5
          Originally posted by LostCityGuardian View Post
          Isn't that how you fire drones from a puddle jumber?
          No. They jumper responds to what you're thinking in such a case - The pilot basically does the same thing they would do in a control chair. They've explored this in various episodes. The most recent one was "Adrift" where Sheppard told Mckay to concentrate in order to control four drones at once since the pilot not only needs to use their mind to fire them, but they need to use their mind to guide the drones to their target (that's why Mckay missed one - He doesn't have the ability to focus on controlling so many drones at once and while they can seek out targets on their own they are by no means as capable in that regard).

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            #6
            Originally posted by Xaeden View Post
            No. They jumper responds to what you're thinking in such a case - The pilot basically does the same thing they would do in a control chair. They've explored this in various episodes. The most recent one was "Adrift" where Sheppard told Mckay to concentrate in order to control four drones at once since the pilot not only needs to use their mind to fire them, but they need to use their mind to guide the drones to their target (that's why Mckay missed one - He doesn't have the ability to focus on controlling so many drones at once and while they can seek out targets on their own they are by no means as capable in that regard).

            Yeah, but couldn't it be a similar concept for Lorne on the Orion? He has the ATA gene, and with the increased computing power of the Orion over the puddle jumper, it would only be a case of setting the target with his mind? Also, Zelenka refers to the Orion firing in "salvos". Does this infer that a lot more of it is done by the ship rather than the user? I haven't seen Travelers, but from the spoilers I have read, Sheppard only goes to the chair because the bridge has been hit. Does this infer that he would have fired the drones from the bridge if he could?

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              #7
              Originally posted by neoncrazy101 View Post
              could the ship in travelers be an older Ancient warship? cause when Sheppard is in the jail cell the cell looks totally different than the one on the Aurora. plus it doesn't have shields around the cell.

              edit. plus this ships weapons are still controlled through the chair. the Orions weapons were controlled through the control center. not a chair.
              The 'Aurora' class ships are huge!

              Presumably they have multiple decks, each with it's own armoury, cell etc.

              So it could simply be that the cell he was in was on another level from the main one that Shep was thrown into in 'Aurora'.

              As for the chair, probably the same thing. The can be directly controlled by the captain on the bridge. As well as a secondary control chair, there could even be a third. If you remember the bridge was targeted in the attack killing the guys inside, so they couldn't get access to it. Therefore had to fire the Drones another way.

              Since we see Atlantis having multiple Drone silos. I'd be surprised if it didn't have at least 3 control chairs stationed at opposite ends of the city.

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                #8
                or it could be an older/newer ship

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                  #9
                  Originally posted by LostCityGuardian View Post
                  Yeah, but couldn't it be a similar concept for Lorne on the Orion? He has the ATA gene, and with the increased computing power of the Orion over the puddle jumper, it would only be a case of setting the target with his mind? Also, Zelenka refers to the Orion firing in "salvos". Does this infer that a lot more of it is done by the ship rather than the user? I haven't seen Travelers, but from the spoilers I have read, Sheppard only goes to the chair because the bridge has been hit. Does this infer that he would have fired the drones from the bridge if he could?
                  If you watch the scene a lot of drones were fired and they were avoiding darts on their way to the Hive and then entering, exiting, and re-entering the Hive in perfect formation. That's a lot for them to do manually (the drone Beckett fired had a hard time hitting a slow moving helicopter when it was acting on its own) and all the while Lorne was just standing there, talking. Even O'neill with the database in his mind, closed his eyes and really focused when firing a lot of drones (although granted there were a lot more) and Sheppard has always had some sort of look on his face to show he was focusing to control Ancient tech. If Lorne was able to do that his gene is the best out of them all as he would've been able to do it without any effort whatsoever and he can really multi-task to boot. Also, a salvo is probably just a swarm of drones (I don't remember him using that word though).

                  Anyway, no he did not run to the control chair because the bridge had been hit (that happened while he was sitting in the chair). Larrin told him that "the weapons control platform is down that corridor" and then said that she was headed to the bridge to which Sheppard replied by saying "keep the shields up as long as you can." After this, when the forward section was sealed off due to the bridge being hit, he ran to auxiliary control. So if the bridge was indeed capable of firing drones this should've been the place where they designed it for drones to be fired should the bridge be inaccessable and there would be no need for a control chair at all if indeed all you needed to do was put your hand on a panel and think as they could've put this panel in auxiliary control and not bother with making a fortified room just for weapons control.

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                    #10
                    Originally posted by Xaeden View Post
                    If you watch the scene a lot of drones were fired and they were avoiding darts on their way to the Hive and then entering, exiting, and re-entering the Hive in perfect formation. That's a lot for them to do manually (the drone Beckett fired had a hard time hitting a slow moving helicopter when it was acting on its own) and all the while Lorne was just standing there, talking. Even O'neill with the database in his mind, closed his eyes and really focused when firing a lot of drones (although granted there were a lot more) and Sheppard has always had some sort of look on his face to show he was focusing to control Ancient tech. If Lorne was able to do that his gene is the best out of them all as he would've been able to do it without any effort whatsoever and he can really multi-task to boot. Also, a salvo is probably just a swarm of drones (I don't remember him using that word though). .
                    I just don't see how else the Orion firing drones can be explained. I just watched it again on the DVD. The only reason the drones are not fired initially is because Zelenka has trouble transferring power from shields. Then he says "I have it" and Lorne says "Firing drones" to Caldwell, and at the same time presses something on the bridge console. If anyone was in the Orion's command chair it would have been Lorne (if it even has one) in the same way that it is ordinarily Sheppard who commands Atlantis' drones as a Lieutenant Colonel (although granted he also seems to be the most intuitive at using the chair). Because Lorne is on the bridge, I can only see that either it interfaces with his mind from there (unlikely) or that the Orion's computer controls them. Remember that Carson's drone in Antarctica is acting completely on its own, maybe accounting for why it is so dumb. In contrast, the Orion could be in contact with its drones, transferring sensor readout to keep them away from darts and in formation while hitting the hive. By the way, Lorne says after the first salvo "One more shot, Zelenka, that's all I'm asking" and Zelenka replies "I just cannot give you what I don't have" and then some shifting and complaining and then "We sacrificed our shield capability for that first salvo".


                    Originally posted by Xaeden View Post
                    Anyway, no he did not run to the control chair because the bridge had been hit (that happened while he was sitting in the chair). Larrin told him that "the weapons control platform is down that corridor" and then said that she was headed to the bridge to which Sheppard replied by saying "keep the shields up as long as you can." After this, when the forward section was sealed off due to the bridge being hit, he ran to auxiliary control. So if the bridge was indeed capable of firing drones this should've been the place where they designed it for drones to be fired should the bridge be inaccessable and there would be no need for a control chair at all if indeed all you needed to do was put your hand on a panel and think as they could've put this panel in auxiliary control and not bother with making a fortified room just for weapons control.
                    As I said, I haven't seen it so I stand corrected.

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                      #11
                      Originally posted by chicer_mister View Post
                      or it could be an older/newer ship
                      Or it could be them showing other parts of the same class of ship. Since we only seen a cell, bridge & couple of corridors in 'Aurora' & the bridge in 'Inferno'.

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                        #12
                        Originally posted by chicer_mister View Post
                        or it could be an older/newer ship
                        False logic. The ship appears the same on the outside, and is called an Aurora class.

                        It is more likely all Aurora class ships have the areas shown, rather than it being a new ship or an old ship because it has things we havn't seen before.

                        Seeing the Drone chamber in "The Tower" while never seeing it on Atlantis does not mean the Tower city was a different design- but that it was an area not shown before.

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                          #13
                          Originally posted by LostCityGuardian View Post
                          I just don't see how else the Orion firing drones can be explained. I just watched it again on the DVD. The only reason the drones are not fired initially is because Zelenka has trouble transferring power from shields. Then he says "I have it" and Lorne says "Firing drones" to Caldwell, and at the same time presses something on the bridge console. If anyone was in the Orion's command chair it would have been Lorne (if it even has one) in the same way that it is ordinarily Sheppard who commands Atlantis' drones as a Lieutenant Colonel (although granted he also seems to be the most intuitive at using the chair). Because Lorne is on the bridge, I can only see that either it interfaces with his mind from there (unlikely) or that the Orion's computer controls them. Remember that Carson's drone in Antarctica is acting completely on its own, maybe accounting for why it is so dumb. In contrast, the Orion could be in contact with its drones, transferring sensor readout to keep them away from darts and in formation while hitting the hive. By the way, Lorne says after the first salvo "One more shot, Zelenka, that's all I'm asking" and Zelenka replies "I just cannot give you what I don't have" and then some shifting and complaining and then "We sacrificed our shield capability for that first salvo".
                          You're right on your second thought - Sheppard mans the control chair because he is the most capable, not because he is the highest ranking officer. Back when he was still a major and the city was under seige a Colonel (no less) had him manning the control chair, not because of his rank, but because that's where he could be the most useful. On the other hand we have no idea how powerful Lorne's gene was so he may not be the best person to do that. Further more, as the ranking officer his place was on the bridge, commanding the ship. At least when Sheppard runs off to the control chair, Weir is usually commanding everyone from the control room so that he is able to do things like that. Why you would think he would Lorne more important locked away in a room somewhere else on the ship just so he could fire the drones when it came time to do that instead of commanding the ship and using his gene to fly it I don't know. Everyone has a job to do and he best served it on the bridge.

                          As far as him saying "firing drones" what else would you expect to him say? The person manning the weapons platform was probably trying to fire that whole time and as soon as he/she was able to Lorne saw a reading showing that the drones were being released and he reported it back to Caldwell. It's perfectly normal for him to speak for the ship in that situation, rather than go out of his way to say that the person manning the weapons platform is firing drones. Also, I watched it again and we have no way of knowing if he pressed anything. He could've just been leaning in a bit. If you look at the next scene in the Orion he has his balled up fist against the panel and is yelling into Zelenka's ear. So putting his hands on the panel like that originally would indeed give the impression of pressing a button. It really shouldn't be an issue though as it would go against everything we know for them to be able to fire a swarm of drones at the push of a button.

                          Anyway, I also saw the salvo comment and all he meant by it was that the first swarm successfully discharged. A salvo is specifically the discharge of multiple firepower of some kind which is what a swarm of drones are. So, all he meant was that they couldn't fire another swarm. I don't know why you would think that would have anything to do with damage being done by a ship versus a person. Maybe you explained it poorly above and could expand upon it a bit.
                          Last edited by Xaeden; 08 November 2007, 07:16 PM.

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                            #14
                            Originally posted by Xaeden View Post
                            You're right on your second thought - Sheppard mans the control chair because he is the most capable, not because he is the highest ranking officer.
                            I thought you might say that.

                            Originally posted by Xaeden View Post
                            Back when he was still a major and the city was under seige a Colonel had him manning the control chair, not because of his rank, but because that's where he could be the most useful.
                            I believe though that Everett had him manning the chair becuse the drones were secondary to the city's main defence at the time, which was infantry/machinegunner/railgun emplacements. Do you really believe that if it had been a ship to ship battle (Atlantis vs a hive, for example) and the drones were the main weapon, that Sheppard would be in the chair firing drones. No, it would be Everett because in this form of battle that's where he could command from. Similarly, in the Siege he needed to be mobile/in the control room in order to coordinate multiple defensive positions (of which Sheppard and the chair was one).

                            Originally posted by Xaeden View Post
                            On the other hand we have no idea how powerful Lorne's gene was so he may not be the best person to do that. Further more, as the ranking officer his place was on the bridge, commanding the ship. At least when Sheppard runs off to the control chair, Weir is usually commanding everyone from the control room so that he is able to do things like that. Why you would think he would Lorne more important locked away in a room somewhere else on the ship just so he could fire the drones when it came time to do that instead of commanding the ship and using his gene to fly it I don't know. Everyone has a job to do and he best served it on the bridge.
                            I'm not going to repeat what I just posted above. I would only add that Lorne could both fire drones from the chair and fly the ship (in the same way that Sheppard flew Atlantis in First Strike) had he wanted to. Instead he was on the bridge. The inference being that he could do all of this from the bridge as well.

                            Originally posted by Xaeden View Post
                            Anyway, I also saw the salvo comment and all he meant by it was that the first swarm successfully discharged. A salvo is specifically the discharge of multiple firepower of some kind which is what a swarm of drones are. So, all he meant was that they couldn't fire another swarm. I don't know why you would think that would have anything to do with damage being done by a ship versus a person. Maybe you explained it poorly above and could expand upon it a bit.
                            Perhaps I wasn't clear. Sorry. Use the analogy of an old school battleship, or a gun battery. With many guns, they would be fired on a target simultaneously, and then reloaded and fired again. Each cycle would be a salvo. In contrast, using the Atlantis chair a user, since the mind is controlling each drone separately would not fire in salvos necessarily, but fire continuously until the target was destroyed. What I am trying to draw from this is that the Orion firing the drones was more like the old battleship, fire in salvos and then reload (or repower in the case of the Orion) for another salvo. Meaning like the old battleship, each salvo is not necessarily being controlled from the chair (if the Orion has one). Hope that makes more sense.

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                              #15
                              Originally posted by LostCityGuardian View Post
                              I believe though that Everett had him manning the chair becuse the drones were secondary to the city's main defence at the time, which was infantry/machinegunner/railgun emplacements. Do you really believe that if it had been a ship to ship battle (Atlantis vs a hive, for example) and the drones were the main weapon, that Sheppard would be in the chair firing drones. No, it would be Everett because in this form of battle that's where he could command from. Similarly, in the Siege he needed to be mobile/in the control room in order to coordinate multiple defensive positions (of which Sheppard and the chair was one).
                              The chair was potentially the greatest and only weapon needed. Everett assigned him the chair before they knew only a few dozen drones were left, before they knew the darts would be the first wave, and before the Hives redirected the asteriods to take out their mines before coming to Atlantis first.

                              I agree with you though that someone was needed to command all aspects of the city's defenses. Just like someone was needed on the bridge of the Orion to coordinate everyone on the ship and like someone is needed to tell the soldiers/ships where to go when Sheppard runs off to the control chair (i.e. In "Allies" Weir was in the control room ready to order Sheppard to fire and the Daedalus/Orion to jump in on a moments notice if needed as well as ready to deploy soldiers should the Wraith get into the city before they had time to switch to shields).


                              I'm not going to repeat what I just posted above. I would only add that Lorne could both fire drones from the chair and fly the ship (in the same way that Sheppard flew Atlantis in First Strike) had he wanted to. Instead he was on the bridge. The inference being that he could do all of this from the bridge as well.
                              Well we'll have to agree to disagree then.

                              Perhaps I wasn't clear. Sorry. Use the analogy of an old school battleship, or a gun battery. With many guns, they would be fired on a target simultaneously, and then reloaded and fired again. Each cycle would be a salvo. In contrast, using the Atlantis chair a user, since the mind is controlling each drone separately would not fire in salvos necessarily, but fire continuously until the target was destroyed. What I am trying to draw from this is that the Orion firing the drones was more like the old battleship, fire in salvos and then reload (or repower in the case of the Orion) for another salvo. Meaning like the old battleship, each salvo is not necessarily being controlled from the chair (if the Orion has one). Hope that makes more sense.
                              I see what you mean now, but normally there should be nothing stopping them from them just releasing thousands of drones and having them split apart into different swarms to attack different targets (unless of course you're right that there is a difference between firing drones with the weapons platform and doing so manually). In this case they probably lost power after a certain number of drones were away so they only had enough to go after the first ship or the person controlling the chair could not control two swarms at the same time so that person was intending to then fire a second swarm, but they lost power while the drones were doing a number on the first Hive so that became impossible. Of course we probably won't agree that that is the most likely scenario though, so I'll just leave it at that.

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