We have seriously underestimated the Wraith. (Spoilers)

[An-Alteran]

In the Siege Part III the Wraith within seconds program a jamming device for Asgard Transporters.

The Wraith were able to manipulate an Ancient stasis pod virtual reality program to trick Ancients into giving up the plans for intergalactic level hyperdrives.

In Reunion, the Wraith are revealed to have reprogrammed Ancient technology: Replicators. (Not even the Asgard could do that.)

Now, granted, The Asgard didn't have access to Atlantis, and with such Access McKay was able to learn how to program Ancient tech also.
It would appear that the reason the Asgard only were able to "scatch the surface" was because they had raw data, they didn't have the base code, they didn't have the ability to look at much easily. They barely were able to get what they got.

But still, this indicates the Wraith at least must match the Asgard in ability.

The Wraith appear to be far more capable and far more advanced than we have given them credit for.

I assert that early in the existence of the Wraith, they got a part of a basic Ancient database, and Ancient technology (aswell as maybe advanced human technology) and were able to spread that understanding accross their race via telepathic ability-thus allowing a massive leap in technological development.

Like how it only took a few years for Indians to be able to use guns effectively, yet it took Europeans hundreds of years to develope them.
And how cheap knockoffs for AK-47s are easily made, but the teechnology that led to them took hundreds of years to form and develope naturally.

This also explains our massive technological leap.

We are the uneducated groups that are are riding camels and mules and using technology invented thousands of years ago, yet making AK-47s in their backyards, and using Cell phones like apendages.

The big problem with the Wraith is still: How did they get the manufacturing ability to produce massive fleets.

I would assert that they constructed them over thousands of years, and the Ancient simply triggered the surprise offensive long-since prepared for.

[Buba uognarf]

Also in reunion the Wraith show they have an effective way to contain a human form replicator. I'm not sure if that was ever demonstrated by the Asgard or not but the fact they can capture one and contain it shows is impressive granted they may have had time to study them.

[immhotep]

Yes it is impressive how they were able to contain them. They dont have shields on thier ships but thier shields can withstand a human form replicator. Asgard shields couldnt beat Replicator block bolt things. But maybe its a size thing, 11km is a big shield, the power requirement would be enourmous.

[Buba uognarf]

Yes it is impressive how they were able to contain them. They dont have shields on thier ships but thier shields can withstand a human form replicator. Asgard shields couldnt beat Replicator block bolt things. But maybe its a size thing, 11km is a big shield, the power requirement would be enourmous.

Indeed the fact they can move the damn through things and have hyperspace is impressive seeing as Atlantis needs ZPMs.

[WraithWarrior]

The only problem is though, the replicators that were attacking the Asgard were completely different than the Asurans. For one the Asurans have a base code accessible from Atlantis that can be changed so they can attack the Wraith etc. The Asgard dont know who the creators of the MW replicators were and definately didnt know where to get the base code from, if they have one, which Im assuming they do.

Well, if you remember in Allies, I think it was, the Wraith (Michael and his hives) managed to download part, if not all of the Ancient database using the virus they downloaded into the Atlantis' computers. Thats how they managed to get the gate address' and the location of Earth.

They at least managed to get the data that we had researched from the Ancient database.

The Wraith are good and clever, but some of the things would have been easier for them than other races like the Asgard as they could get the info easier

[Ltcolshepjumper]

The Wraith have to be much more powerful, technology wise. Otherwise the Ancients could have just invented a biological weapon to destroy them all. There had to be more to the Wraith than numbers and brute force.

[WraithWarrior]

The Wraith have to be much more powerful, technology wise. Otherwise the Ancients could have just invented a biological weapon to destroy them all. There had to be more to the Wraith than numbers and brute force.

Well one thing about the Wraith winning the war was propbably that the Ancients were a civilised and very technologically advanced race and probably didnt worry until it was too late.

[An-Alteran]

Indeed. The Wraith likely had overun most of humanity and most of any advanced human races and gained that technology aswell as overwhelmed many Ancient sites by the time the Ancients were able to mount the first response!

[SoulReaver]

The Wraith have to be much more powerful, technology wise. Otherwise the Ancients could have just invented a biological weapon to destroy them all. There had to be more to the Wraith than numbers and brute force.

well we're still losing to mosquitos & cockroaches...

[Enzo Aquarius]

SoulRe@ver makes a good point. Despite our technological advances (anti-bug sprays, exterminators, etc.), we can only temporarily or partially stop a bug infestation. Cockroaches are hard to kill (like the Wraith) and mosquitoes have the numbers and stealth (due to size, by the time they bite, we're too late).

The Wraith are essentially bugs (advanced Iratus bug), they could be considered a metaphor to the pests of present day society.

[Xaeden]

In the Siege Part III the Wraith within seconds program a jamming device for Asgard Transporters.

Actually it wasn't in seconds. It was probably more like many hours. The nukes were beamed aboard the Hives over Atlantis and in turn the Cruisers retreated into hyperspace, likely with sensor data regarding what happened. Sheppard said that those Cruisers probably called for help and they originally said those 12 Hives were 36 hours away from Atlantis before they decided to meet them when made their last jump 50 light years away from Atlantis. So how long it took between the initital destruction of the Hives over Atlantis and the confrontation with the 12 Hives is unknown. However, I think it's more reasonable to assume that those Hives spent a lot of that time working on a way to overcome this beaming technology as soon as the Cruisers reported back to them. They probably weren't expecting the Daedalus to be there waiting for them so they probably just didn't have this untested fix active at the time they dropped out of hyperspace.

We don't for sure though. We also don't know for sure that they haven't developed some sort of jamming technology before. For example, they could have a hand held device that prevents one from being taken by a dart beam or whatever because of something that happened during the war so they used that to develop a bigger version. Given that we know nothing of how they came up with that it's a bit much to assume they developed it from scratch within a few seconds.

The Wraith were able to manipulate an Ancient stasis pod virtual reality program to trick Ancients into giving up the plans for intergalactic level hyperdrives.

After how long though? We don't begin to know how hard that was for them, but even so all it means is that they are around the level of Earth in their ability to figure out how to interface with Ancient technology that is light years beyond their ability to understand.

In Reunion, the Wraith are revealed to have reprogrammed Ancient technology: Replicators. (Not even the Asgard could do that.)

The Asurans were given extensive programming by the Ancients, the Ida replicators were not. So it's highly doubtful that the Asgard could do something which was not possible. You're comparing two different types of machines and expecting all the same rules to apply. Also we have no idea how long it took for the Wraith to figure this out. Given that they likely defeated the Ancients with a massive fleet of ships and were down to at least 60 Hives (that we know of) at the start of the series I'm guessing it took awhile.

Also, even with the virus left over from their ancestors they are having problems simply figuring out how to upload it. That doesn't exactly speak volumes for how great they are.

But still, this indicates the Wraith at least must match the Asgard in ability.

The Wraith appear to be far more capable and far more advanced than we have given them credit for.

I agree that they are quite capable, (in fact I was impressed by how quickly they used simply data to upgrade their hyperdrive engines) but they are nowhere near the level of the Asgard. The Asgard dealt with completely different situations. Had the Wraith been faced with the Ida replicators at the height of their power they would be gone just as the Asgard would likely be gone if it were not for Humans. Had the Asgard dealt with the Asurans they would've had the same possibility of discovering their programming and tapping into it.

Anyway, the Asgard have come out of their war with new technology (their approach was to build bigger and better tech) where as the Wraith seemed to have been killed by the masses with no end in sight (it's as if they didn't even try to fight back based on what we know of their technology than compared to now) until they figured out there was an off switch and even then they had no hope of finishing the Asurans off so such would not happen again. If the Asgard were in that position they would've had scientists working just to figure out how to be rid of them for as long as it took which would've been considerably under 10,000 years. The problem with the Wraith is that they are quick to forget and regress back to living a life where they don't do much but feed when things are good. The Asgard, meanwhile, push forward even while they are devoting a considerable amount of resources to their genetic problem. Basically, they can multi-task, a skill the Wraith have issues with, but they're bugs that have traditionally won by infesting the galaxy in such numbers that their food source could no longer sustain them so what does one expect?

[An-Alteran]

Actually it wasn't in seconds. It was probably more like many hours. The nukes were beamed aboard the Hives over Atlantis and in turn the Cruisers retreated into hyperspace, likely with sensor data regarding what happened.

You are right. It is still impressive though.

Sheppard said that those Cruisers probably called for help and they originally said those 12 Hives were 36 hours away from Atlantis before they decided to meet them when made their last jump 50 light years away from Atlantis. So how long it took between the initital destruction of the Hives over Atlantis and the confrontation with the 12 Hives is unknown. However, I think it's more reasonable to assume that those Hives spent a lot of that time working on a way to overcome this beaming technology as soon as the Cruisers reported back to them. They probably weren't expecting the Daedalus to be there waiting for them so they probably just didn't have this untested fix active at the time they dropped out of hyperspace.

Agreed.

We don't for sure though. We also don't know for sure that they haven't developed some sort of jamming technology before. For example, they could have a hand held device that prevents one from being taken by a dart beam or whatever because of something that happened during the war so they used that to develop a bigger version. Given that we know nothing of how they came up with that it's a bit much to assume they developed it from scratch within a few seconds.

Good point.

After how long though? We don't begin to know how hard that was for them, but even so all it means is that they are around the level of Earth in their ability to figure out how to interface with Ancient technology that is light years beyond their ability to understand.

Not exactly.

The Asurans were given extensive programming by the Ancients, the Ida replicators were not. So it's highly doubtful that the Asgard could do something which was not possible. You're comparing two different types of machines and expecting all the same rules to apply. Also we have no idea how long it took for the Wraith to figure this out. Given that they likely defeated the Ancients with a massive fleet of ships and were down to at least 60 Hives (that we know of) at the start of the series I'm guessing it took awhile.

You actually make my case stronger.

The Ida replicators had one main programing point: Replicate.

The Ancient ones had vast amounts more.

So it would indicate that the Wraith were able to do something the Asgard could not.

Also, even with the virus left over from their ancestors they are having problems simply figuring out how to upload it. That doesn't exactly speak volumes for how great they are.

We don't know how they shut off the replicators the first time.
Did he say it was a virus?

I agree that they are quite capable, (in fact I was impressed by how quickly they used simply data to upgrade their hyperdrive engines) but they are nowhere near the level of the Asgard.

I say they are at the level, just different.

Their intelligence seems to match.

The Asgard dealt with completely different situations. Had the Wraith been faced with the Ida replicators at the height of their power they would be gone just as the Asgard would likely be gone if it were not for Humans. Had the Asgard dealt with the Asurans they would've had the same possibility of discovering their programming and tapping into it.

Except that the Wraith ships appear to be biologically based. That would have given them a specific and extreme advantage over the Asgard in the battle with the replicators.

[Heaven]

I don't know why everyone assumes the wraith tech is based on ancient knowledge they are not even remotely similar
I think it's quite feasible that a race with unlimited lifespan and telepathic abilities would develop such technology on their own
and as for their understanding of ancient technology, if Rodney could do it in a few years, surely the wraith could do it in 100 years of war with the ancients

[Ouroboros]

What gets forgotten a lot of the time in these sorts of discussions about Wraith capabilities is that the Wraith we see in the show today are the product of 10,000 years of uncontested peaceful dominion over pegasus.

There are several episodes where Wraith say things about how long it's been sicne they've fought in any real battles and how only a few remember those days and the even how to repair the technology from back then.

They've forgotten and discarded a lot in that span of time, mainly because it was of no use to them in their new lives as basically farmers, but it seems as if they're starting to remember now. The civil war and the replicator threat now seems to be stimulating them to rediscover much of their own forgotten power.

They're a species that grew from a single planet to a force that seized an entire galaxy from the ancients in a period of only 100 years, and that was starting with a lot less than they have established now, and against a much more impressive foe. Underestimating them would be foolish. I've long thought of their species is a classic example of a "sleeping dragon".

I'd really like to see some of that tech the hive keepers maintain. Or what a Wraith ship built by them, expressly for warfare not farming or living on, would be capable of.

[Xaeden]

The Ida replicators had one main programing point: Replicate.

The Ancient ones had vast amounts more.

Sorry, I wasn't clear with what I meant. What I meant is that we know that the Ancients were smart when building the Asurans as they made it so that they can make an update to their programming and that update is peridocally updated to every nanite in the galaxy through subspace. Thus it's possible to change the base code of the replicator prisoner and have it affect every other replicator when his programming merges with them.

Nothing really suggests that the Ida replicators have a similar programming which allows for such updates. As far as we know each replicator is programmed to replicate when it is created and that's it. The best we've seen is that Daniel was able to use replicator Sam to freeze every replicator in the galaxy. However, all that shows is that a very powerful mind who a replicator interfaces it is able to control replicators. It doesn't show that they can all be reprogrammed to no longer replicate. Weir was able to do the same thing, but she wasn't able to reprogram them by doing that.

We don't know how they shut off the replicators the first time.
Did he say it was a virus?

Yes he said it was a virus. I assume by that he simply meant that the virus was designed to edit the base code. Which means they can't directly do it themselves, they need a program to do it for them. But I don't know.

I say they are at the level, just different.

Their intelligence seems to match.

Well I disagree with you. Even if one were able to do something that outmatched the other it doesn't speak for their overall intelligence. The Asgard were able to create beaming techology that was more advanced than the Ancients but it doesn't mean they were on the same level anymore than it means that Humans are on the same level as the Asgard because the Asgard never thought to try projectiles on the replicators.

Except that the Wraith ships appear to be biologically based. That would have given them a specific and extreme advantage over the Asgard in the battle with the replicators.

Parts of it are made of metals though. If they eat through that the ship wouldn't be able to function which could quickly spell the end of the Wraith on that ship. Also, the galaxy has a considerable amount of Ancient technology which they could use to become stronger than they were just feeding off of Asgard technology. Now that you mention it though I'm not all that certain that they would care about the Wraith. I suspect they would ignore them and their ships like they would ignore any Human who wasn't firing on them. But for the sake of argument if they evolved into Human form replicators in the Pegasus galaxy and they, for whatever reason, decided to make it their mission to destroy the Wraith I don't think anything would stop them.