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    Midway Station live communication

    Sorry, I didn't find the best thread for my question.

    I understand the working of Gate Bridge, that the macro is similar to Avenger 2.0, where the gates could speak with each other in sub-space without opening real wormholes. So the team travel only in memory in such way: A-B, B-C, C-D, D-E, E-F, F-G, G-H, H-I, I-J, J-K, K-L, L-M, M-N, N-O, O-P, P-Q, so they need 17-17 gate in every galaxy. If they send a message (for example a long monologue), than they should wait too the half of the complete time of traveling from Atlantis to SGC, which is 15-17 minutes. But it seems that Landry dialed Midway Station is Return, part1, and he could speak with the team there and back. So McKay wrote such makro, which can transport sound with the 17 gates in this way : A-B-C-D-E-F-G-H-I-J-K-L-M-O-P-Q. So one wormhole is going through 17 gates? I can describe this wormhole as a necklace with 17 pearl.
    Last edited by Platschu; 15 September 2007, 07:51 AM.
    "I was hoping for another day. Looks like we just got a whole lot more than that. Let's not waste it."

    "Never underestimate your audience. They're generally sensitive, intelligent people who respond positively to quality entertainment."

    "Individual science fiction stories may seem as trivial as ever to the blinder critics and philosophers of today, but the core of science fiction, its essence, has become crucial to our salvation, if we are to be saved at all."

    #2
    This also got me.

    In Adrift / Lifeline
    Spoiler:

    the Apollo manages to communicate with Carter and Lee on Midway via Stargate. Assuming that the Apollo didn't supply power directly to the gate so it could directly dial the Midway gate rather than through the bridge, it doesn't make sense how they do this.


    My first thought was that the Midway gate of each network was still close enough to its respective galaxy that it could be connected to without extra power. But this raises the obvious question of why bother creating the gate bridge if all they have to do is stick two gates in the middle of the galactic void to avoid needing extra power.

    I had a metaphor for the gate bridge but it was crap, anyone got a spare they can lend me?

    Comment


      #3
      Originally posted by talyn2k1 View Post
      I had a metaphor for the gate bridge but it was crap, anyone got a spare they can lend me?
      A spare piece of crap or a spare metaphor? One I am extremely capable of giving. The other?... perhaps not so much.
      "Always do right. This will gratify some people and astonish the rest."
      Mark Twain

      Daniel Jackson and Sam Carter are the kinds of nerds I want to be.

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by talyn2k1 View Post
        This also got me.

        In Adrift / Lifeline
        Spoiler:

        the Apollo manages to communicate with Carter and Lee on Midway via Stargate. Assuming that the Apollo didn't supply power directly to the gate so it could directly dial the Midway gate rather than through the bridge, it doesn't make sense how they do this.


        My first thought was that the Midway gate of each network was still close enough to its respective galaxy that it could be connected to without extra power. But this raises the obvious question of why bother creating the gate bridge if all they have to do is stick two gates in the middle of the galactic void to avoid needing extra power.

        I had a metaphor for the gate bridge but it was crap, anyone got a spare they can lend me?
        I think it's to keep them from drifting away. that and the fact that they ultimately wanted a midway station to connect the two.
        Never, never, never believe any war will be smooth or easy...

        ... or that any man can measure the tides and hurricanes he will
        encounter on the strange journey.


        Spoiler:

        2 Cor. 10:3-5
        3 For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh:
        4 (For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds; )
        5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;

        Comment


          #5
          I have always thought that the gate bridge system worked, not by just storing the pattern in memory and forwarding it on to the next gate, but somehow actually extended the wormhole. Like maybe the wormhole goes through the junction point gates, but rather than the gates connecting to the wormhole and acting as an endpoint, they somehow re-inforce the wormhole, add energy and extend it. I would suspect that the principal is similar to how Baal managed to make the gate on Dakara dial every gate in the galaxy at once.

          Actually, this finally makes that episode make sense... Imagine if Baal wrote a gate program that allowed all the gates in the galaxy to hand-off to each other. The farthest gate out in the network would be the "End Point" and someone walking through the gate on Dakara would end up there. The Energy Wave from the weapon, however, is able to escape through the "gap" where the wormhole passes through each Stargate. The Stargates adding energy to the wormhole might also amplify the energy wave that exits through the "gap". (I got the idea of the gaps from the visual effect of the jumper traveling through the gate bridge in The Return. Every so often the wormhole effect had a thicker white band that I assumed was supposed to represent their passing through one of the interim gates.)

          As for the midway station, I would think it is probably need because of a software incompatibility between the two gate networks, specifically relating to the macro. The MW Gates can DIAL the Pegasus gates with enough power and establish a wormhole, but the firmware inside the gate is different, like the difference between a PC and a Mac (before the Intel Macs). The same program could run on both, but it had to use compiled for each type of CPU. My guess is that the software that allows the "forwarding" of the wormhole is the same way. The version that was written for the MW gates won't run on the Pegasus hardware and vice-versa.
          Last edited by Merlin's_Legacy; 15 September 2007, 03:43 PM.

          Comment


            #6
            it could just be that some of the gates are equipped with subspace transmitters
            Spoiler:

            So the applo dials the first gate but sends a command telling the gate its a transmission rather then an object

            The gate activates its subspace transmitter and signal is relayed to the next gate
            This gate then activates and sends the signal true the wormhole to the next gate this gate then send the signal to the next gate by subspace
            and so fort until you reach the midway station
            this would give you an amount of lag but would be quicker then the normal cycle to send an object

            edit ops sorry for the spoiler
            Last edited by Xeon_1; 16 September 2007, 07:56 AM.

            Comment


              #7
              Merlin and Xeon: Thanks, I think so, what you wrote. I didn't want to write any spoilers about season 4.

              So the Gate Brige communication work so:

              A-(X)-(X)-(X)-(X)-(X)-(X)-(X)-(X)-(X)-(X)-(X)-(X)-(X)-(X)-(X)-B

              Where A is Atlantis, B is the Midway Station and (X) are the other gates.

              Don't forget that at least 6-7 gates have to be in Pegasus, because in other case the whole gate bridge would be bigger. Here is an example. The Pegasus galaxy is a circle, where Atlantis is in the middle point. If the next gate is on the line from the bridge, it means that the Midway station is 17*0,5 = 8,5 galaxy wide from Atlantis, ant the whole distance could be 17 "galaxy long" between Pegasus and Milky Way. But! They had to put the 17-17 gates closer to each other, because one gate can dial only the nearest ones (like in 4x06 WoO or 7x09 Avenger 2.0). So if the Apollo ship wanted to speak with Midway Station than he had to find the gates and he could use them as a sound transmitter what you have said.
              "I was hoping for another day. Looks like we just got a whole lot more than that. Let's not waste it."

              "Never underestimate your audience. They're generally sensitive, intelligent people who respond positively to quality entertainment."

              "Individual science fiction stories may seem as trivial as ever to the blinder critics and philosophers of today, but the core of science fiction, its essence, has become crucial to our salvation, if we are to be saved at all."

              Comment


                #8
                In 'Critical Mass' the SGC sent a team to the edge of the galaxy, then transmitted the message to Daedalus that was on it's way back to the MW. So it's not unreasonable to think that some sort of subspace communication was used to allow them to message each other almost instantly with only a brief delay. It could even have been the same tech which was left in place from 'Critical Mass' that he routed the message through.

                Techincally the trip from Atlantis to the Mid-Way station or vice versa should only take seconds though. We saw Ba'al activate all the gates in the galaxy to help deploy the Da'kara weapon. So when they are all dialled using McKay's macro. You should go from 1-2, 2-3, 3-4 instantly. There is no logical way in which it should take 30mins. They aren't flying in the PJ's. Just going from 1 gate to the next & so on all the way through.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by Wraith_Boy View Post
                  In 'Critical Mass' the SGC sent a team to the edge of the galaxy, then transmitted the message to Daedalus that was on it's way back to the MW. So it's not unreasonable to think that some sort of subspace communication was used to allow them to message each other almost instantly with only a brief delay. It could even have been the same tech which was left in place from 'Critical Mass' that he routed the message through.

                  Techincally the trip from Atlantis to the Mid-Way station or vice versa should only take seconds though. We saw Ba'al activate all the gates in the galaxy to help deploy the Da'kara weapon. So when they are all dialled using McKay's macro. You should go from 1-2, 2-3, 3-4 instantly. There is no logical way in which it should take 30mins. They aren't flying in the PJ's. Just going from 1 gate to the next & so on all the way through.
                  But you forget, it takes about 20-30 seconds for gates to dial out and connect, then it takes an extra (around) 3 seconds for the traveler to arrive at the next gate, and repeat. That can really add up, so it's not really that out there.
                  Click the banner or episode links to visit the virtual continuations of Stargate!
                  Previous Episode: 11x03 "Shore Leave" | Previous Episode: 6x04 "Nightfall" | Now Airing: 3x06 "Eldest"

                  Comment


                    #10
                    We've seen the gate dial near instantaneously (nox, asguard, ancient dialing) so a quick series of actuations seems reasonable if a macro is being used.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by s09119 View Post
                      But you forget, it takes about 20-30 seconds for gates to dial out and connect, then it takes an extra (around) 3 seconds for the traveler to arrive at the next gate, and repeat. That can really add up, so it's not really that out there.
                      They went to the edge of the galaxy, used subspace transmitters to contact Daedalus. Chances are they were either kept one the planet should something like that ever arise again. Maybe even they had Daedalus rig up some sort of satellite & place it in position somewhere in the void between galaxies.

                      This means the SGC dials up a single gate, then transmits the message through the transmitters used in 'Critical Mass' or news ones put in position by Daedalus later on. Then this travels via subspace to the station, where it gets received. Using subspace technology, allows them to send messages across the galaxy. So all they'd need to do is extend the range of the transmission, by either routing it through the transmitter at the edge of the MW galaxy which was used in 'Critical Mass' or one dropped by Daedalus in the void between galaxies later on down the line. Then bang, it goes to the station easily & gets received by the recipient.

                      In 4x01:
                      Spoiler:
                      Carter is in the mid-way station & she is instantly able to communicate with Apollo, which was situated in Pegasus at the time.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by Wraith_Boy View Post
                        They went to the edge of the galaxy, used subspace transmitters to contact Daedalus. Chances are they were either kept one the planet should something like that ever arise again. Maybe even they had Daedalus rig up some sort of satellite & place it in position somewhere in the void between galaxies.

                        This means the SGC dials up a single gate, then transmits the message through the transmitters used in 'Critical Mass' or news ones put in position by Daedalus later on. Then this travels via subspace to the station, where it gets received. Using subspace technology, allows them to send messages across the galaxy. So all they'd need to do is extend the range of the transmission, by either routing it through the transmitter at the edge of the MW galaxy which was used in 'Critical Mass' or one dropped by Daedalus in the void between galaxies later on down the line. Then bang, it goes to the station easily & gets received by the recipient.

                        In 4x01:
                        Spoiler:
                        Carter is in the mid-way station & she is instantly able to communicate with Apollo, which was situated in Pegasus at the time.
                        But the Midway gate was open which indicates the transmission was coming through the gate rather than via a subspace transmission.
                        If the Stargate had not been activated, there wouldn't be any problem, but there is no way that the gate bridge, as we understand it to function, could transmit live audio via the Stargate.

                        Only possibility that explains all questions is a malgamation of a number of the theories that have already been posted.
                        The Apollo dials the furthest gate out that it can reach with a conventional DHD. This gate then transmits the message along the bridge using a subspace transmitter while the gate is still open to the Apollo.
                        When the transmission reaches the final gate in the bridge before Midway, this gate dials Midway and sends the message through.
                        When Midway replies to the message, the last gate in the chain becomes the first, sends the transmission back along the bridge until it reaches the first gate which then sends it back through the wormhole to the Apollo.

                        This explains how the Apollo could speak with Midway using live audio using the Intergalactic Gate Bridge.

                        Does anyone see any flaws in this theory as I'm thinking of doing a fan fic (its been quite a few years) and really need to have a (close to) flawless explanation for this in order for the story to work.

                        While we're on the subject of Midway, judging by the spoilers and the pictures that have been posted - Midway is going to be a cracking episode. I have a feeling it will also be a pivotal one rather than a throw away episode.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          But the Midway gate was open which indicates the transmission was coming through the gate rather than via a subspace transmission.
                          If the Stargate had not been activated, there wouldn't be any problem, but there is no way that the gate bridge, as we understand it to function, could transmit live audio via the Stargate.
                          That would be right, the SGC would need to dial P4M-399 allowing them to connect to the transmitter placed on that planet. Then use a macro, automated dialing sequence or whatever that they set in place to dial the gate on the station. Then he sends his message through, Obviously seeing the problems of last time & how close them came to destruction, then a permanent communications solution will have been put in place. If another emergency developed, they may not have time to deploy another team to do it manually. While Daedalus may have been back in the MW at the time & had no chance of getting back.

                          At least with them using a relay transmission via the planet on the edge of the galaxy. They can now send it via subspace. Obviously not direct to Atlantis but to the station that sits in the void between galaxies. Which is around the exact same place that they managed to get a hold of Daedalus a year earlier. Don't honestly see it being much different this time around. They can send messages across the galaxy using subspace comms but they obviously can't send people or physical objects, so need to use the rest of the gates in order to send any form of matter through.

                          Best bet though would be to use MKII generators linked to the spacegates. The extra power cuts down on the amount of gates that they need in which to travel through to reach the other end. So rather than 34. Using extra power generators will allow the gates to dial larger distances. So it could cut the amount of needed gates down to half or less than that. Making the trip quicker! Say Atlantis is in trouble & needs power generators, more soldiers, or the SGC is under attack & needed a PJ through to use it's Drones etc. Waiting over 30mins for it to arrive will most likely be far too late to do anything about it anyway.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Yeah. In Critical mass when the Daedalus sat halfway between the two galaxies it couldn't contact both Earth and Atlantis. It had to use a relay they'd set up. So Earth Dials the first gate in the bridge, which has a transmitter on it. It sends a signal to the midway station, which can then send a signal directly to Atlantis. But IMO this still shouldn't require the midway gate to open.

                            I think that was just another booboo on the part of the writers. Yet another.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by gopher65 View Post
                              Yeah. In Critical mass when the Daedalus sat halfway between the two galaxies it couldn't contact both Earth and Atlantis. It had to use a relay they'd set up. So Earth Dials the first gate in the bridge, which has a transmitter on it. It sends a signal to the midway station, which can then send a signal directly to Atlantis. But IMO this still shouldn't require the midway gate to open.

                              I think that was just another booboo on the part of the writers. Yet another.
                              Mmmm. It would've been smarter for them to just say "Oh well, they're at Midway... I guess we have to let them go" when Sheppard's team escaped the SGC.
                              Click the banner or episode links to visit the virtual continuations of Stargate!
                              Previous Episode: 11x03 "Shore Leave" | Previous Episode: 6x04 "Nightfall" | Now Airing: 3x06 "Eldest"

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