A possible way to make Project Arcturus work.

[turbo1889]

Okay, the reason Project Arcturus didn't work was because of all those nasty exotic particels that are created right? But in Atlantis episode "McKay and Mrs. Miller" they found a way around that by sending all those nasty particles through an interdimensional conduit to another universe -- but the problem was that unfortionatly the universe they connected too was inhabited and it didn't work.

Okay, so we know that a ZPM containes an artificial pocket universe from which vaccum energy is drawn. So why not take an old ZPM that is like almost depleated and send those nasty exotic particles into that artifial pocket universe? If it's artificial then it shouldn't be inhabited, and it's probably already pretty messed up by the drawing of vaccum energy that has already taken place. If McKay and Sam put their heads together it shouldn't be much harder then the failed attempts that have already been made and this plan learns from the mistakes of previous failures and just might work. Third times the charm?

[ManiacMike]

Project Arcturus was suppose to make ZPM's like alkaline batteries.

The Miller's bridge just put the particles into another dimention, which it bled through causing that demention and their own to implode.

The energy wouldnt fit into one zpm, maybe a dozen or so.

And we dont even know if the zpm casing can hold the exotic particles.

[Nth]

ZPMs extract energy using small artificially-created subspaces, and are used to power the technology of the Ancients.

First, when a ZPM is depleted the Universe it draws from collapses (entropy). So you'd have to test with a working ZPM.

I don't think the Universe created for(by?) the ZPM is a Universe as we understand it. It doesn't have matter, space or anything like ours. It only has 'Subspace(s).' So you probably couldn't build a dimensional bridge to it and even if you did the exotic partials (probably) couldn't exist there. Even if they could they're exotic partials. By the very definition you don't know what they'd do there. They could implode the ZPM, explode it, or make it rain cats in Detroit.

At the very least it would give the writers the opportunity to take yet another ZPM from the Atlantis crew.

[Mister Oragahn]

Could they even access the ZPM's artificial "pocket"?

Besides, as said above, considering that the system was going to make ZPMs obsolete, it's rather logical that the Lantians tried this as well, if not by dumping the particles into a "bigger" ZPM.

Besides, those particles are beeyatches to contain.

[wise one]

if the ancients didnt make it work, us humans wont make it... the ancients had alot more knowledge to know how to get the effective way of getting power....but they failed miserably

[IcyNeko]

The opening poster brings up a valid point and I think they should go get a doctorate in astrophysics and quantum theory before posting about matter bridges, ZPMs and Project Arcturus again.

[TheAccended]

if the ancients didnt make it work, us humans wont make it... the ancients had alot more knowledge to know how to get the effective way of getting power....but they failed miserably

Yes the ancients failed in the project, but you must remember they were at war and pressed for time. If they hadn't been in conflict and had time to work out the specifics more they may have found away to make the project work. It might have taken them another century or so. But i agree with you that given the complexity of technology it is likely that humans won't be able to do it for a long while.

I would also like to point out something about the M&MM episode. How did they plan on duplicating the tech if it did work. For one they were still using ancient build technology and a ZPM just to get it going.

[turbo1889]

The opening poster brings up a valid point and I think they should go get a doctorate in astrophysics and quantum theory before posting about matter bridges, ZPMs and Project Arcturus again.

Okay, are you telling me ( the original poster ) to go get a doctorate, or the critics of the idea? I can't quite tell.

Using the artificial pocket universe of an almost dead ZPM seems like the street smart thing to do to fix the problem -- No offense but that is the one thing the Ancients lacked and was their ultimate downfall. All you have to do is unplug the ZPM like when its got just enough power left to run a car radio for a few days and then use it for this purpose and don't take any more power out of it. Wouldn't be much of a waste and they seem to run them out of power often enough -- at least once a season it seems.

[TheAccended]

Okay, are you telling me ( the original poster ) to go get a doctorate, or the critics of the idea? I can't quite tell.

Using the artificial pocket universe of an almost dead ZPM seems like the street smart thing to do to fix the problem -- No offense but that is the one thing the Ancients lacked and was their ultimate downfall. All you have to do is unplug the ZPM like when its got just enough power left to run a car radio for a few days and then use it for this purpose and don't take any more power out of it. Wouldn't be much of a waste and they seem to run them out of power often enough -- at least once a season it seems.

Your idea sounds good but what would u do with all those ZPM's containing exotic particles. You would be creating the same problem as we have today with Radioactive waste from nuclear power plants. Also, something that bothered me about McKay and Mrs Miller. The exotic particles produced by the system can be considered the equivalent to pollution and rather find an effective way to deal with it in our universe we are just going dump the problem on someone else. There method is similar to what industrialists did during the industrial revolution. Where there pholosiphy to do deal with pollution was, build a really high smoke stack and let the pollution be blown to someone else's city.

[IcyNeko]

Uhhh ok. The ZPM is like a pointer to the zero point energy in the artificial pocket of subspace, which is a heck of a lot smaller than... say... a universe, which is what the Arcturus/Matter Bridge was built for. That means that any power drawn from the pocket would use up said artificial pocket in a fraction of the time.

Now, exotic particles. You'd literally flood the artificial pockets in moments after turning on the machine. Why is that a bad thing?

Your ZPM, though depleted, is still tied into the artificial region of subspace. Since exotic particles don't follow rules of physics, they could potentially behave like zero point energy and get transferred through the ZPM. Congrats. Now your ZPM explodes with exotic particles and detonates your universe because you let it back into your universe.

The ancients, as flawed as they are, and Rodney are smart. They would have thought of this and dismissed it.

Hence why I commented that you need a degree in astrophysics before posting again.

[turbo1889]

Your idea sounds good but what would u do with all those ZPM's containing exotic particles. You would be creating the same problem as we have today with Radioactive waste from nuclear power plants. Also, something that bothered me about McKay and Mrs Miller. The exotic particles produced by the system can be considered the equivalent to pollution and rather find an effective way to deal with it in our universe we are just going dump the problem on someone else. There method is similar to what industrialists did during the industrial revolution. Where there pholosiphy to do deal with pollution was, build a really high smoke stack and let the pollution be blown to someone else's city.

Uhhh ok. The ZPM is like a pointer to the zero point energy in the artificial pocket of subspace, which is a heck of a lot smaller than... say... a universe, which is what the Arcturus/Matter Bridge was built for. That means that any power drawn from the pocket would use up said artificial pocket in a fraction of the time.

Now, exotic particles. You'd literally flood the artificial pockets in moments after turning on the machine. Why is that a bad thing?

Your ZPM, though depleted, is still tied into the artificial region of subspace. Since exotic particles don't follow rules of physics, they could potentially behave like zero point energy and get transferred through the ZPM. Congrats. Now your ZPM explodes with exotic particles and detonates your universe because you let it back into your universe.

The ancients, as flawed as they are, and Rodney are smart. They would have thought of this and dismissed it.

Hence why I commented that you need a degree in astrophysics before posting again.

I believe in "McKay and Mrs. Miller" they were trying to send the particles into an uninhabited universe, but goofed it up. Must have been McKay's fault it seems to be his style on occasion.

We don't know how many (if any) exotic particles a ZPM's artificial subspace could hold. It could take a second to fill the thing up or it could take centuries. Yes, you would be creating the same problem as we have today with Radioactive waste from nuclear power plants. Question is how bad would it be, would it be just one full ZPM after centures of use and kicking Ori and other bad guy butt or millions of ZPM's just waiting for some idiot to start tampering with and destroy the universe as we know it. That is a valid criticism of the idea.

The exotic particles getting back out of the artificial region of subspace through the ZPM by emulating zero point energy -- now that's something I hadn't thought of.

" . . . The ancients, as flawed as they are, . . . They would have thought of this and dismissed it. ". Errrmmmm --- debateable --- they were kind of like the Asguard in "Small Victories" they really weren't very good at thinking outside the box. And no I'm definently not the only one on this forum with that opinion and I'm a lot more polite about it then quite a few others.

". . . you need a degree in astrophysics before posting again. " This forum is for fans right? If only people who had degrees in what they were posting about posted there would be very little if any traffic on this sight. If only "rocket scientists" watched Stargate it would never have gotten past the original movie. Next, from a search on all your posts I have come to the conclusion that you have a great number of degrees on a wide range of subjects ---- I believe you should contact the people who put out the genus book of records. If you have a valid critism of the idea, by all means fire away and thank you for clarifying yours in your second post. But if you just want to be rude you are only detracting from the quality of this forum.

[Ouroboros]

It works perfectly well as a ridiculously over the top bomb as it is right now.

I'd stop bothering with ways to tame it and make it safe and start looking more in the other direction. Just how much bigger of an explosion can we get this thing to make? Also how much can we shrink it down to fit it into FTL capable strategic missiles. Can we do both at the same time?

When you've already got football sized power sources that can blow up planets how much more power do you really need on tap? If you really need that much extra power just run Atlantis/your ships on a block of ZPMs the size of a bus instead of just 3 of them.

There's plenty of room to grow with the ZPM technology as is.

[turbo1889]

It works perfectly well as a ridiculously over the top bomb as it is right now.

I'd stop bothering with ways to tame it and make it safe and start looking more in the other direction. Just how much bigger of an explosion can we get this thing to make? Also how much can we shrink it down to fit it into FTL capable strategic missiles. Can we do both at the same time? . . . .

Weaponizing Project Arcturus? Oh my holy %&$^#&^ !!! Supose that would be the logical course of action all things considered but it would still be nice to use it for peacful purposes as well.


Edit: Just noticed your W.W.C.D. in your signiture --- yah, that's probably what Cane would do with project Arcturus.

[Emperor Tippy]

Weaponizing Project Arcturus? Oh my holy %&$^#&^ !!! Supose that would be the logical course of action all things considered but it would still be nice to use it for peacful purposes as well.


Edit: Just noticed your W.W.C.D. in your signiture --- yah, that's probably what Cane would do with project Arcturus.

He was talking about weaponizing ZPM's. When a single ZPM at 50% charge has enough energy to destroy the Sol system and is the size of a large book you have the ultimate warhead.

Make a missile that has a hyperspace window generator and shield generator (both can be very small) and that uses the ZPM as both power source and then warhead. You have the ultimate weapon. It can bypass any shield (hyperspace jump past them), it can take any hit (ZPM powered Ancient shield), it can attack targets lightyears way, and nothing can survive it.

[Crazy Tom]

um..... what did the anchients do with the particles generated anyways.
cuz they just mentioned a containment field so.........where does storage come in?