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    Shields block hyperspace?

    Another hypothesis...

    Let me tell how this came to me.

    First, it's an old necrotic question, which frequently bumps up in my mind, for several reasons.

    I was considering, first, that shield generators, in Stargate, seem be usable to cast other things, like cloaks, assuming a few tweaks.

    Secondly, we know that going to hyperspace requires the creation of a field that surrounds the spaceship.

    We're also told that having shields up requires lots of power, and that's why most ships, even replicator ships, deactivate them to go into hyperspace.
    Well, I can't say that I'm 100% fond of that explanation, but let's keep it.

    In the general way, a shield should be put on idle, not draining much energy if there's nothing to fight against. However, maybe there's some kind of hyperspace drag that is very reactive with shields. An exotic friction of some kind.
    Or there are those hyperspace radiations. Maybe they are also extremely reactive with shields, for some reasons.
    Bwah, convulated explanations anyway.

    From time to time, I wonder if Delmak has planetary shields. In that classical care to keep most of facts straight and consistent, I can't find another explanation as to how Delmak could have survived the destruction of Netu and experience no side effect. Of course, tides would be fux0red up, but I'm above all talking about the big rocky debris you know.

    Apophis, at the end of the episode The Devil You Know, didn't seem that concerned when he looked through the window of his building on Delmak, nevermind if a moon just had popped out of existence several thousands of clicks away.
    (well of course, Netu didn't explode - blooper inside)

    So I was wondering what would be the point of theater/planetary shields, since in Stargate, apparently, you can jump underneath shields anyway.

    At which point, I just wondered the usefulness of any shield, since all are bubbles, and leave enough room for any hyperspace capable small craft to sneak under and wreak havoc.

    I remember also Exodus, where SG-1 and Jacob were in a Ha'tak, in the Vorash system, to coordonate the destruction of the sun to bust Apophis' fleet.
    But they suddenly got attacked by an Al'kesh.
    What is interesting is that the al'kesh was constantly flying very close to the ha'tak's hull.
    Since would prove to be advantageous against the ha'tak's point defenses.
    But what if the al'kesh did that to avoid being stuck outside of the ha'tak's defense perimeter if Jacob managed to put shields back online?

    There's of course a flaw in this idea: season 7's Fallen. Without really any reason to believe this wouldn't work, Carter and co planned to jump underneath the shield of Anubis' ship.

    My problem here, is that since this is particularily easy, and since there's lot of room for even an al'kesh to fly underneath a ha'tak's shield as well, I figured that we needed an explanation as to why they never do that.

    So I came with two solutions...
    1. The first one is that going through shields, by using hyperspace, requires lots of power, for some reason. Say that the shield also affects subspace. This could explain how it took so long for O'neill to travel in hyperspace. It produced a drag of some sort.
      It would mean that a fighter could achieve this feat only using naqahdria.
      Say that the stronger the shield, the more interference it puts in subspace. Somehow, these disturbances can be modulated to avoid jamming communications.
      So basically, your only chance to go through a shield would be that the shield is not very powerful. This would be very tricky against a ha'tak.
      Secondly, you'd need lots of power to do that. The more powerful the shield, the more disturbances, and thus the more power you need.
      Considering that the size of the hyperspace field affects power requirements (episode Fail Safe), this feat could only be achieved with very small vessels, like fighters.
      We could also argue, simply, that the bigger the field that tries to go through the subspace disturbances caused by the shield, the more power it drains from the vessel that atttempts the trick.
      Fortunately, the Goa'uld are unable to power hyperdrives on fighters.
      So the explanation would be perfect here. An al'kesh, for example, would be way too big, requiring an al'kesh sized hyperspace field, which would simply require too much energy to go through the shield.

      We could say that this barely worked against Anubis' ship, since at that time, his ship was also powered by the Eyes.


    2. Another solution, which was derived from the first one, was that the shields block hyperspace jump, a sort of subspace null-field that totally disrupts hyperspace.
      Of course, it would require some explanation as to how this worked with Anubis' ship.
      A possible explanation would be, for example, that the subspace null-field is a function that is power hungry, so one can deactivate it.
      We could argue that Anubis didn't expect such a tactic to be used against him, especially from such a small craft. At that time, he didn't know about naqahdria, and couldn't imagine seeing a Tau'ri ship achieving this trick. So he deactivated, possibly to get more juice for his weapon, as he was about to fire at the surface of the planet and destroy the stargate.


    In the end, it could be possible that this system use the shield projectors to create that field.
    The difference? Well, you could make both systems work independantly. It would just be a question that the Goa'uld, most of the time, have both systems work hand in hand, and have the shield and the interference field be cast by the same generators.

    The idea would also be that this interference field system is a relatively simple tech. Anyone can have it. Of course, assuming that it's a side effects of shields being activated, instead of being a whole independant and different system, eases the deal, in the sense that just coming with a shield technology would also come with the extra bonus of automatically casting those interference fields.

    Thoughts?
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    #2
    Shields don't block hyperspace jump. This is pretty clear, as Atlantis was able to jump to hyperspace with a full shield on (and so was Asuras), and their shields require ZPMs to fully power.

    Nor are shields necessarily power-intensive. Cloaks are very power intensive, but just about anything can have a shield. Atlantis's shield is power intensive because it's coverign an entire city, but for starships, the shield generators generally work just fine. As for why the replicators would disengage shields, it was probably an efficiency thing, since very few races, if any, can fire weapons in hyperspace. They were unprepared for Carter's attack with the O'Neill because it was used AS a weapon in hyperspace, something they were not prepared for.

    But, like everything else in stargate, I'm sure there's a plot hole used to further story development. But mostly, I think the explanation will be that there is no hyperspace weapons, so no need for shielding in hyperspace. But that doesn't mean you can't use it, nor does it create any sort of hyperspace drag (Drag being a property of wind resistance to foreward motion, and I doubt an energy shield would create drag of any kind, against solar wind nor against atmospheric wind).

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      #3
      Originally posted by IcyNeko View Post
      Shields don't block hyperspace jump. This is pretty clear, as Atlantis was able to jump to hyperspace with a full shield on (and so was Asuras), and their shields require ZPMs to fully power.

      Nor are shields necessarily power-intensive. Cloaks are very power intensive, but just about anything can have a shield. Atlantis's shield is power intensive because it's coverign an entire city, but for starships, the shield generators generally work just fine. As for why the replicators would disengage shields, it was probably an efficiency thing, since very few races, if any, can fire weapons in hyperspace. They were unprepared for Carter's attack with the O'Neill because it was used AS a weapon in hyperspace, something they were not prepared for.

      But, like everything else in stargate, I'm sure there's a plot hole used to further story development. But mostly, I think the explanation will be that there is no hyperspace weapons, so no need for shielding in hyperspace. But that doesn't mean you can't use it, nor does it create any sort of hyperspace drag (Drag being a property of wind resistance to foreward motion, and I doubt an energy shield would create drag of any kind, against solar wind nor against atmospheric wind).
      No doubt it is partially a plot hole, but in the end of season 5, Carter says that they HAVE to maintain diplomatic relations with Jonas' people just because of the value of Naquadria. She said that it could have been the key to generating the large amounts of power required for generating shields and hyperspace windows. Or something like that. Don't quote me
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        #4
        Originally posted by IcyNeko View Post
        Shields don't block hyperspace jump.
        It is only a suggestion, which somehow would make a bit of sense, if you wonder why the Goa'uld don't use that rather simple trick more often.

        Even more, if this hypothesis was correct, it would probably help the writers, give them plot oportunities, and resolve an issue which has never been settled, and often seen as a convenient plot hack used only once in Fallen.

        This is pretty clear, as Atlantis was able to jump to hyperspace with a full shield on (and so was Asuras), and their shields require ZPMs to fully power.
        Mmm... this is a plothole. It has been said that the shield could stay on forever as long as there'd be no strain put on it, not taxing the ZPM.
        If I had to offer an explanation, I'd say that McKay and co probably messed up something in First Strike, or the Asuras weapon or attempt at hacking did have a second effect on the city's systems, because the ZPM should have never been drained by the shield, from the moment they were clear of the water, and still protected by the asteroid.
        At that very precise moment, they were in case where the city was just sitting in atmosphere, clear of any significant strain.
        But we're talking about those who can't manage to lift a puny ship like that, when they have - at the very least - a planet busting power source, and had to tap into a geothermal plant as well.

        As for the Asuras, they had 3 ZPMs. So at this point, they're irrelevant.

        Nor are shields necessarily power-intensive.
        You still need power to have them adopt a given shape. But it is true that when idling, they shouldn't tax reactors that much.
        However, maybe - just a maybe - they could be suddenly overtaxed if some subspace element tried to punch through via hyperspace.

        Or there's the second option I suggested, in that this interference field could be independant of the shield.

        Cloaks are very power intensive, but just about anything can have a shield. Atlantis's shield is power intensive because it's coverign an entire city, but for starships, the shield generators generally work just fine.
        Anubis' supership was nearly as large as Atlantis. He didn't need a ZPM to protect is ship. Nor Apophis' supership.

        Atlantis' shield isn't power hungry because it covers a city. It is power hungry from the moment it's put under strain.

        As for why the replicators would disengage shields, it was probably an efficiency thing, since very few races, if any, can fire weapons in hyperspace.
        Though that is logical, Thor was talking about an issue, a factor which did forbid ships from activating shields at the same time.
        I'm not sure if it was confirmed, later on in the show, that it was a problem of power consumption.
        If that was true, it would mean that shields, in hyperspace, are put under terrible strain for a reason or another.

        They were unprepared for Carter's attack with the O'Neill because it was used AS a weapon in hyperspace, something they were not prepared for.
        More or less my point. They didn't expect that move.
        Doesn't mean they didn't know it could be possible.
        If humans, who've been playing with hyperdrives scavenged from aliens within 6 years, know this, I think the aliens who've been building ships and hyperdrives for more than 10 millenia should know this fact sufficiently well.

        But, like everything else in stargate, I'm sure there's a plot hole used to further story development. But mostly, I think the explanation will be that there is no hyperspace weapons, so no need for shielding in hyperspace. But that doesn't mean you can't use it, nor does it create any sort of hyperspace drag (Drag being a property of wind resistance to foreward motion, and I doubt an energy shield would create drag of any kind, against solar wind nor against atmospheric wind).
        From the moment hyperspace radiations exist, we're talking about particles. Whatever they are, it means hyperspace is at least filled with such matter at some point.
        Without even talking about whatever exotic phenomenom might put some resistance on a ship's advance - that's just speculative, I'm throwing ideas here.

        Anyway, the question is not to know if they use shields in hyperspace or not, but if a ship's shields can block another ship from hyperspacing through them.

        I realize that this could mess up with many fans' wet dreams about hyperspace missiles and whatelse, but I'm not concerned by this.


        Originally posted by Jimbo-DR View Post
        No doubt it is partially a plot hole, but in the end of season 5, Carter says that they HAVE to maintain diplomatic relations with Jonas' people just because of the value of Naquadria. She said that it could have been the key to generating the large amounts of power required for generating shields and hyperspace windows. Or something like that. Don't quote me
        Yes, since at that time, the X-302 project still had an hyperdrive.
        The Al'kesh is not a warship - Info on Naqahdah & Naqahdria - Firepower of Goa'uld staff weapons - Everything about Hiveships and the Wraith - An idea about what powers Destiny...

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          #5
          Originally posted by IcyNeko View Post
          Shields don't block hyperspace jump. This is pretty clear, as Atlantis was able to jump to hyperspace with a full shield on (and so was Asuras), and their shields require ZPMs to fully power.

          Nor are shields necessarily power-intensive. Cloaks are very power intensive, but just about anything can have a shield. Atlantis's shield is power intensive because it's coverign an entire city, but for starships, the shield generators generally work just fine. As for why the replicators would disengage shields, it was probably an efficiency thing, since very few races, if any, can fire weapons in hyperspace. They were unprepared for Carter's attack with the O'Neill because it was used AS a weapon in hyperspace, something they were not prepared for.

          But, like everything else in stargate, I'm sure there's a plot hole used to further story development. But mostly, I think the explanation will be that there is no hyperspace weapons, so no need for shielding in hyperspace. But that doesn't mean you can't use it, nor does it create any sort of hyperspace drag (Drag being a property of wind resistance to foreward motion, and I doubt an energy shield would create drag of any kind, against solar wind nor against atmospheric wind).
          that just tells us how powerful the asgard hyperdrive and fast....amazing!
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            #6
            i always thought that perhaps the physics required to make a sheild do not work in hyperspace, the same reason why energy weapons don't work in hyperspace, not sure why i thought that.
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              #7
              Originally posted by AvatarIII View Post
              i always thought that perhaps the physics required to make a sheild do not work in hyperspace, the same reason why energy weapons don't work in hyperspace, not sure why i thought that.
              I still think that.
              Atlantis must have some kind of unique shield
              the way it comes on is like the wraith darts canopy shield, it's not just a force field like most ships.
              we don't even know how well it protects in hyperspace, and we'll probably never find out since you can't fire weapons in hyperspace anyway.

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by Heaven View Post
                I still think that.
                Atlantis must have some kind of unique shield
                the way it comes on is like the wraith darts canopy shield, it's not just a force field like most ships.
                we don't even know how well it protects in hyperspace, and we'll probably never find out since you can't fire weapons in hyperspace anyway.
                I've really always attributed it to power. Keep this in mind:

                The Asgard travel through hyperspace at incredible speeds. According to Thor, during hypertravel, shields and weapons are turned off so that the generators can be used fully for the hyperdrive.

                My idea is that, sure, you could use weapons AND shields when your in hyperspace, BUT, it would use power and you would just go slower. Whats the point when there isn't really anything to fight while in hyperspace.
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                  #9
                  Well, that's likely as well. The power feeding the weapons and shields could be better utilized making the hyperdrives go faster. Which makes you wonder.. why don't they turn Life support off in unused sections during hyperspace escapes? Squeeze a little more juice out.

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                    #10
                    I think the weapons think has something to do with generating the hyperspace conduit itself. If you take something, separate it from its ship then it will no longer have a hyperdrive on board and will be unable to maintain hyperspeeds. Same goes for the "particles" that presumably make up energy weapons unless it is some sort of exotic non-particle energy. As for shields, I think it is for some sort of weird energy interaction with the process that shapes the hyper drive conduit and possibly drives the ship through hyperspace...though how stuff is propelled is a thread for another time.
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                      #11
                      I always assumed that the Ancient city ships just incorporated their shield generators and hyper drive into one system, & that was the reason why they were able to traverse hyperspace with shields engaged. (This idea was kind of shot in the foot by “The Return prt.2”)

                      It seems that hyperspace travel requires the ship to be encompassed in a subspace field (possibly to help protect the ship from hyperspace radiation “No Mans Land”), and we know from “Grace” that this subspace field can be produced in normal space…so why would anyone make two systems to perform similar task when you can just tweak one system into doing them both, and in this instance do them both simultaneously?

                      Just because defensive shielding is meant to protect against radiant energy from hostile threats & the subspace field for hyperspace travel is meant for shielding against hyperspace radiation doesn’t negate the possibility of utilizing this field for both drive (navigating hostile environments like hyperspace, or the “Grace” “nebula”) & defensive purposes (like directed energy weapons).

                      I don’t know if that makes since to any one…I will attempt to elaborate later.
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                        #12
                        Originally posted by Argosy View Post
                        I always assumed that the Ancient city ships just incorporated their shield generators and hyper drive into one system, & that was the reason why they were able to traverse hyperspace with shields engaged. (This idea was kind of shot in the foot by “The Return prt.2”)

                        It seems that hyperspace travel requires the ship to be encompassed in a subspace field (possibly to help protect the ship from hyperspace radiation “No Mans Land”), and we know from “Grace” that this subspace field can be produced in normal space…so why would anyone make two systems to perform similar task when you can just tweak one system into doing them both, and in this instance do them both simultaneously?

                        Just because defensive shielding is meant to protect against radiant energy from hostile threats & the subspace field for hyperspace travel is meant for shielding against hyperspace radiation doesn’t negate the possibility of utilizing this field for both drive (navigating hostile environments like hyperspace, or the “Grace” “nebula”) & defensive purposes (like directed energy weapons).

                        I don’t know if that makes since to any one…I will attempt to elaborate later.
                        It does. It does.
                        I don't think the subspace field needed to go into hyperspace protects the ships from hyperspace's radiations, but more against the relativistic effects if you were to thread on the "border" between the hyperspace tunnel and normal space.

                        I also hope your addition will also provide more matter in relation to the initial subject of this thread.
                        The Al'kesh is not a warship - Info on Naqahdah & Naqahdria - Firepower of Goa'uld staff weapons - Everything about Hiveships and the Wraith - An idea about what powers Destiny...

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                          #13
                          What hyperspace radiation? You keep mentioning it, but there's really no reference to hyperspace radiation. You might be thinking of the Wraith's bio-hyperdrive, which overheats due to whatever process they use to generate a hyperspace window, in which case sure there might be radiation. But I've never heard the human or asgard drives emitting or suffering from hyperspace radiation.

                          Let it also be noted that if there WAS hyperspace radiation, the entire SGA team that was on the Orion (and the Tyrannans) would be irradiated. The Orion lost its shields when Tyrannus went up, and jumped into hyperspace without shields. But LO AND BEHOLD, NO ONE WAS. IMAGINE THAT. NO RADIATION!

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                            #14
                            Originally posted by IcyNeko View Post
                            What hyperspace radiation? You keep mentioning it, but there's really no reference to hyperspace radiation. You might be thinking of the Wraith's bio-hyperdrive, which overheats due to whatever process they use to generate a hyperspace window, in which case sure there might be radiation. But I've never heard the human or asgard drives emitting or suffering from hyperspace radiation.

                            Let it also be noted that if there WAS hyperspace radiation, the entire SGA team that was on the Orion (and the Tyrannans) would be irradiated. The Orion lost its shields when Tyrannus went up, and jumped into hyperspace without shields. But LO AND BEHOLD, NO ONE WAS. IMAGINE THAT. NO RADIATION!
                            No Man's Land:

                            ZELENKA: ... However, the ships are organic in nature. They *will* need to make brief pauses to recover from the effects of hyperspace radiation.
                            Hulls can block radiations, you know.
                            The Al'kesh is not a warship - Info on Naqahdah & Naqahdria - Firepower of Goa'uld staff weapons - Everything about Hiveships and the Wraith - An idea about what powers Destiny...

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                              #15
                              And that's the first time they mention it IIRC... is Wraith ships needing to stop often. But if we assume that hulls block hyperspace radiation, what about when the Apollo opens bomb bay doors in hyperspace? That would have flooded the bomb bay with hyperspace radiation.

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