Are the Asurans now more Advanced then the Ancients were??

[Lord batchi ball]

I would have to say that they are, in the sense that they made the death ray with the stargate attached to it. But then they will never reach a higher plane so is that the altiment advancement?

[Jarnin]

I would have to say that they are, in the sense that they made the death ray with the stargate attached to it. But then they will never reach a higher plane so is that the altiment advancement?

An emulation cannot surpass that which it is emulating. The Asurans are nothing more than a copy of the Lanteans. That includes the Lanteans' technology, culture and so on.

Apparently the Asurans are stuck at the moment. They want to ascend in order to equal their creators, but they don't know how. That would indicate that they're still not equivalent to the Lanteans, even though they want to be.

[JSPuddlejumper]

Asurans can make anything the Ancients ever did, but much faster.

So they are more powerful than the Ancients.

They cannot yet Ascend.

If the Ori did not have Ascended beings backing them up, the Asurans would be a far more formidable enemy.


The Atlantis team is going be in huge trouble, even if they get the latest Asgard technology. They are vastly out numbered. They will have to come up with ingenious ways to win.

[Lord batchi ball]

An emulation cannot surpass that which it is emulating. The Asurans are nothing more than a copy of the Lanteans. That includes the Lanteans' technology, culture and so on.

Apparently the Asurans are stuck at the moment. They want to ascend in order to equal their creators, but they don't know how. That would indicate that they're still not equivalent to the Lanteans, even though they want to be.

They have been created in the image of the Lanteans but they are just a Lifeform that is made of multiple blocks, they can reason, feel and have emotions and most important they are free thinking.

[Jarnin]

Asurans can make anything the Ancients ever did, but much faster.

I suppose you have intimate knowledge of how fast Lanteans could create things compared to the Asurans? No?

So they are more powerful than the Ancients.

Based on your erroneous statement above?

They cannot yet Ascend.

Yet? I think the fundamental question is can they ascend at all?

If the Ori did not have Ascended beings backing them up, the Asurans would be a far more formidable enemy.

I think this falls into the 'no duh' category.

The Atlantis team is going be in huge trouble, even if they get the latest Asgard technology.

Considering we haven't seen Asgard technology versus Lantean technology, I'd say you're predictions are a bit premature.

They are vastly out numbered.

The Asurans haven't committed to an all-out attack, so their numbers aren't a big deal at this point.

They will have to come up with ingenious ways to win.

Isn't this how it always is?

[JSPuddlejumper]

They are REPLICATORS, nobody can built ships faster. They already proved this, in a couple of months they had 30+ ships ready!

Even the Ori could not hope to match that.


Machines are superior at building machines.


They are thinking and learning machines...


They are thus a more powerful enemy than the Ancients! Only saving grace: They cannot built ships as fast as the ML replicators (who could build a ship in a few seconds!), but the Asurans are more advanced having all the Ancient knowledge.

Niam was pretty sure he can Ascend, just needed a changing of the base code. Now weather Obleroth (sp?) or the Council wants that is another question.

There were some spoilers for Season 4: 7 Hives and the Daedalus and the Apollo taking on the Replicators. I believe it was John saying if that is all the Hives they could get. Implying they were facing a massive Asuran fleet.

[Jarnin]

They have been created in the image of the Lanteans but they are just a Lifeform that is made of multiple blocks, they can reason, feel and have emotions and most important they are free thinking.

First, they weren't created in the image of the Lanteans, they emulated the Lanteans.
Second, they're an emulated lifeform, not a genuine lifeform.
Third, their reasoning is emulated.
Fourth, their feelings are emulated.
Fifth, their emotions are emulated.
Sixth, their will is emulated.

[Ltcolshepjumper]

Well, I wouldn't put it more advanced, but rather utilize all of their knowledge and technology. But to put it simply, yes, you could consider the Asurans more advanced than the Ancients. Although the Ancients already had their own version of the Asuran satellite (Redemption) and they definitely could have built a mega city if they had the time and resources. More advanced, not really. Smarter and more practical, definitely.

[Jarnin]

They are REPLICATORS, nobody can built ships faster.

They're not replicators, they're Asurans. There is a difference.

They already proved this, in a couple of months they had 30+ ships ready!

That is far from proven. We know the Lanteans had the capability to fabricate technology quickly, not to mention that I have no idea where you're pulling that "30+ ships" figure from.

Even the Ori could not hope to match that.

Your assumption is based on nothing.

Machines are superior at building machines.

Again, your assumptions are faulty.

They are thinking and learning machines...

Which has no bearing on this discussion.

They are thus a more powerful enemy than the Ancients!

I'm sure the exclamation point in that statement makes it true.

Only saving grace: They cannot built ships as fast as the ML replicators (who could build a ship in a few seconds!), but the Asurans are more advanced having all the Ancient knowledge.

So you admit there is a difference between Asurans and Replicators then?

Niam was pretty sure he can Ascend, just needed a changing of the base code.

He wasn't pretty sure he could ascend; he wanted to ascend. Big difference. He believed that getting rid of their aggresive sub-routines would allow him and the others to attain ascension, but there was no proof either way.

Now weather Obleroth (sp?) or the Council wants that is another question.

Weather = whether.
Obleroth = Oberoth.

Apparently Oberoth and the others still feel they haven't accomplished everything up to ascension.

There were some spoilers for Season 4: 7 Hives and the Daedalus and the Apollo taking on the Replicators. I believe it was John saying if that is all the Hives they could get. Implying they were facing a massive Asuran fleet.

Cool, can't wait.

[2ndgenerationalteran]

They emulate the Ancients, but built a city more grand than anything we have evidence the Ancients made. They can repair highly damaged things remarkably fast, probably meaning they can do the same with constructing ships. They seemed to have met the Ancient's level of technology before they left, if not surpassed it, just because you try to be like a race doesnt mean your stuck at that technological level forever or until the race you emulate comes back and proceeds onwards.

[Lord batchi ball]

First, they weren't created in the image of the Lanteans, they emulated the Lanteans.
Second, they're an emulated lifeform, not a genuine lifeform.
Third, their reasoning is emulated.
Fourth, their feelings are emulated.
Fifth, their emotions are emulated.
Sixth, their will is emulated.

What is alife form has been a major question in many Scifi shows
In the episode entity a computer based life infects Carter they said it was a life form, and in Glactica the machines eventually became some what human and in the process became more advaced.
What I am trying to prove that they in time can become more advanced because they indepently grow.
And the Asurans never have to sleep so they could work forever

[JSPuddlejumper]

They ARE replicators, build from many trillions of nanites.

They have bettered the Ancients technologically:

Far grander than the Ancients in their construction (of their home world), according to the Asurans. To reach the level of the Ancients, Niam said they must Ascend.

Another example of Asuran technological superiority:

Asurans satellite cannot be destroyed, immensely powerful and a sustained beam. Compare that the Ancient satellite: takes a lot of time to power up and was easily destroyed.

Ancients vs Asurans round 2: couple of 100 Asurans easily defeated about 100 Ancients of the Tria. The Ancients seems quite hapless and inept at war, possibly even worse than the Asgard.

Ex: Commander of Tria did not raise shields when the Asuran approached Atlantis, she ASSUMED too much. She should have someone ready to the launch the drones ASAP as well.

The Earthlings now with Asgard tech would have likely destroyed the Ancients of old.


P.S: I do not see why you are having trouble understanding that machines can build other machines much faster. It is very simple logic and deduction. It is observed in the real world as well.

[2ndgenerationalteran]

I agree with JSpuddlejumper but the satelite only had an impregnable shield because it never would have ran out of energy until the gate shut down cutting off energy it took from the beam. We dont know if the Lagrange point defense satelites had a shield, it was possible they did but it was damaged beyond a timely repair or they just couldnt give enough energy to power the beam and the shield at the same time.

But the Asurans have slightly more impressive technology than the Ancients had.

[jds1982]

I have no idea where you're pulling that "30+ ships" figure from.

There were what, five targets in First Strike? And I believe there were about six ships per target, at least in the photo we saw, so about 30 ships.

[JSPuddlejumper]

Assuming that the Ancient satellite had shields before (solid assumption), it would have no where near the shield strength of the Asuran one (with their nearly unlimited ZPMs). Asuran one was clearly so much better. It is better than anything built before, it was INDESTRUCTIBLE.


Just looked at the tape:

There were 6 targets and each target had about 5-7 ships each. They started building 2 months ago.

That was from the footage taken 3 weeks ago by the Daedalus! They could have added a few more ships I would think, considering their building speed.

So 30 ships is a very low ball number. It could be as high as 60 ships.

Assuming they were building no more ships, at most they would have 42 ships.

They could have had 60 ships for all we know if they started building more ships in those 3 weeks since the photos were taken. Another indication why in season 4 that JS was disappointed that only 7 Hives join them.

Even though we destroyed all their construction facilities, shipyards, materials, the Asurans build ultra fast. They could have a fleet of at least 20 ships facing against 7 Hives+Daedalus and Apollo.

Another example of Asuran building speed: Atlantis main tower got destroyed in a huge explosion (the bomb set off by the Atlantis team), Asurans built it all back in less than 2 hours! Humans would have needed many weeks to repair it!


So the Atlantis team is fighting an enemy that is technologically superior to the Ancients, even if only slightly and can built much faster than the Ancients. The Milky Way replicators very nearly destroyed the Asgard and the humans. Even though the Asgard eventually had planetary wide anti replicator weapons (somethings the Ancients clearly did not have).

If the Atlantis team takes on the replicators by brute force instead of ingenuity, they will lose. They need the planetary wide anti replicator weapons to really have any effect. The Asurans may also decide to spread to other planets, knowing that Earth has AR weapons and launch an attack on Earth. They could also adopt to the frequency of the AR weapons.

All in all, they have found an enemy that makes the Wraith look like toddlers. Only the Ori, because of Ascended help may be a bigger threat.