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Jervanic
September 24th, 2004, 03:20 PM
With the Gou'ald hand device, starting with apophis, we saw a personal shield device that made the user practically impenetrable, except with slow moving objects, strangly similar to dune, but anyways... why hasn't the SGC, Area-51, or the NID come up with some scheme to allow us to have personal shields, i know we've captured at least 1 or 2 gou'ald hand devices. Well, those things are pretty nifty.
-jerv

Jprime
September 24th, 2004, 04:15 PM
Goa'uld tech requires the user to have naquada in their bloodstream.

auir999
September 24th, 2004, 05:34 PM
not only the naquaduh but not all hand devices have a shield capability.

Jprime
September 24th, 2004, 07:50 PM
Another good point auir999!

1138
September 24th, 2004, 08:10 PM
I think the hand device Ra had didn't have the shield. That's why he got the kids to act as a human shield for him. I wonder why the system lords don't have that in the series. It really would say something about their characters.

Are there any Goa'uld without hand devices? I know Nyerti was never seen with one.

Jprime
September 24th, 2004, 10:52 PM
Seth had one, although I doubt he's the kind of guy who'd hesitate to use slaves as a shield.

Mr Prophet
September 25th, 2004, 12:02 AM
The personal shield was originally a new innovation; Teal'c had never seen one, despite serving Apophis for decades. Then Marduk turned out to have one in The Tomb.

It's also possible that the shield isn't on the hand device, just the controller. The jewel on the back of the device seems to operate as something of a universal remote after all.

The main issue is that Goa'uld tech only works for Goa'uld: You need naquadah in your blood. They managed to make the communication sphere work without, but that was not exactly a man-portable system and the sphere is usable by Jaffa anyway, so isn't quite as restricted as a ribbon device.

Lord Zedd
September 25th, 2004, 02:36 AM
I think the hand device Ra had didn't have the shield. That's why he got the kids to act as a human shield for him. I wonder why the system lords don't have that in the series. It really would say something about their characters.

Are there any Goa'uld without hand devices? I know Nyerti was never seen with one.
Anubis also doesn't use a hand device.So why don't they give one to Carter and O'Neill.We know that they had a Tok'ra inside them and so they should be able to use Goa'uld technology.From O'Neill I'm not sure.I know he had a Tok'ra in him but it was never mentioned that he got naquahdah in his blood.So why don't they give it to Carter?She can opperate healing devices and hand devices.If she had one maybe she could save Fraiser with it.Or with a hand device she could push some Jaffa away!Fight fire with fire So fight Goa'uld with their own technology.Ai it's not their technology they just stole it.

Mr Prophet
September 25th, 2004, 03:12 AM
Sam almost killed Daniel with the healing device and her control of the hand device is limited; frankly she's doing much better with a P90. A hand device is useful if you want to terrorise your slaves, but not much cop against a room full of angry Jaffa.

I don't think that Jack can use Goa'uld tech or sense other Goa'uld; Kanan didn't die inside him and so his body didn't break down leaving the protein marker and the naquadah in his bloodstream. Such is my presumption, anyway.

Mio
September 25th, 2004, 03:34 AM
Sam almost killed Daniel with the healing device and her control of the hand device is limited; frankly she's doing much better with a P90. A hand device is useful if you want to terrorise your slaves, but not much cop against a room full of angry Jaffa.

I don't think that Jack can use Goa'uld tech or sense other Goa'uld; Kanan didn't die inside him and so his body didn't break down leaving the protein marker and the naquadah in his bloodstream. Such is my presumption, anyway.

He may not have the marker, but he should still have naquada in his system. Osiris didn't die in Sarah's body, but she used Goa'uld technology :)


It just requires a blending, most likely. Since In Early season 2, the blending never finished, he didn't get any Naquada from the symbiote.

Mr Prophet
September 25th, 2004, 03:57 AM
He may not have the marker, but he should still have naquada in his system. Osiris didn't die in Sarah's body, but she used Goa'uld technology :)

You what? When?

1138
September 25th, 2004, 11:45 AM
The personal shield was originally a new innovation; Teal'c had never seen one, despite serving Apophis for decades. Then Marduk turned out to have one in The Tomb.

I THINK Osiris also had one, which was stored in the pyramid for presumably many thousands of years. (I can't remember if it was the shield or the force wave that blocked the shots they fired).

I suppose Teal'c had never seen the shield used because up until he betrayed Apophis, the Goa'uld didn't have the need to use the personal shield. They were worshipped as gods and so no one dared to shoot at them. We know they had the shield device, so it's probably that they didn't use it much.

Axle
September 25th, 2004, 07:01 PM
Maybe old snake boy never used it while Teal'c was around. Or just got a new one (like someone mentioned before).

Asgard-VA
September 25th, 2004, 08:24 PM
Maybe old snake boy never used it while Teal'c was around. Or just got a new one (like someone mentioned before).

I'm betting Apophis got the personal shield upgrade as a Christmas present from his new first prime after Teal'c left. Teal'c strikes me more as the type that would give those tele-ball thingys.

Maybe one of the problems with reverse engineering the personal shield technology (beyond the Naquadah thing) is that you have to remain stationary while using it. I'm trying to remember if any of the Goa'ulds that have used it have actually been seen walking once they have activiated it. If SG units couldn't move once it was activated, that could be a serious problem since they are almost always outnumbered by Jaffa. The Jaffa could just surround the SG team members and wait for the shield to run out of power. Anyway, just a thought on what might explain why the SGC hasn't tried to exploit this technology on the show.

Ancient 1
September 26th, 2004, 12:38 PM
I really hate the term 'Goa'uld Technology.' The Goa'uld never built a thing. Those lazy ass snakes usurped everything they have or ever had.

DownFallAngel
September 26th, 2004, 12:43 PM
1. Watch the language, its a Pg-13 zone last time I checked.

2. The Goa'uld could very well have built many technologies, such as the ZATs, or the TV Orb things, maybe even the staff weapons.

All we know is that they did not built the Stargate, or the Hyperdrive engines.

We do know that they are a savanger race, and over the years have incorporated so much technology, that we don't know its origin.

So yea, they might not have built everything they use/own, but they could have built some of it.

auir999
September 26th, 2004, 12:43 PM
well actually they did build a whole bunch of crap, but it was all based on stolen tech from other races. like the sarcoughagus.

Erik Pasternak
September 26th, 2004, 01:03 PM
1. Watch the language, its a Pg-13 zone last time I checked.You might want to check again, 'cause it's actually PG.

Ancient 1
September 26th, 2004, 02:09 PM
You guys are getting off topic because of the word ass? I've seen it used here way more than once. And it's definately heard on TV. (I know this isn't TV).

As auir999 says in his contradictory statement, it's all knowledge stolen from their hosts. That means, technically speaking there is no such critter as "Goa'uld Technology."

auir999
September 26th, 2004, 03:39 PM
even if they use stolen knowledge and develop something of their own efforts i.e the sacoughagus, then it is still considered theirs. They just applied it to suit their own needs

DownFallAngel
September 26th, 2004, 04:26 PM
Yea, thats kinda how it works.

Like Playstation (Goa'uld) VS X-BOX (Tau'ri), both make video games (MALPs), but just because they both make one, and both are used for the same purpose, doesn't mean that one is directly owned by the other.

You understand what I'm saying? Just because the Goa'uld took a jumpstart on the process, rather then spending time developiing their own ideas, doesn't make the final products not theirs.

auir999
September 26th, 2004, 05:41 PM
couldn't have put it better my self.

Axle
September 26th, 2004, 06:49 PM
ING!

Sorry, yes, well put.

aschen
September 27th, 2004, 04:54 AM
Goa'uld tech requires the user to have naquada in their bloodstream.
Yeah, but we could backwards engineer it. :P

Jervanic
September 27th, 2004, 09:58 AM
Goa'uld tech requires the user to have naquada in their bloodstream.

If they can alter DNA in the first 3 episodes of Atlantis to add a gene in the human body that, may never really of been researched before at all...and can get all this other good stuff, your telling me we can't immitate, or learn from the shield device and make clones, or similar shields? Does the naqueda in your blood give the shield device it's power? or does it just encrypt the device, making it so non-gou'ald can't use it? if it's the latter, then it shouldn't be THAT hard to duplicate...but apparently is, so im prolly wrong

Ancient 1
September 28th, 2004, 12:16 AM
even if they use stolen knowledge and develop something of their own efforts i.e the sacoughagus, then it is still considered theirs. They just applied it to suit their own needs
What makes you think the Goa'uld ever developed something on their own? They just reside in their hosts brain waiting while others not possessing snakes in their heads go on to develop better technologies and then enter their head. Or they take what they learned from one culture and combine its use with that of their present host. That is not what I call developing your own technology.

Mr Prophet
September 28th, 2004, 07:48 AM
What makes you think the Goa'uld ever developed something on their own? They just reside in their hosts brain waiting while others not possessing snakes in their heads go on to develop better technologies and then enter their head. Or they take what they learned from one culture and combine its use with that of their present host. That is not what I call developing your own technology.

The ribbon device only works for Goa'uld hosts or former hosts: Did they just find a weapon that happened to work for them and no-one else? The Goa'uld clearly develop their own mechanisms, even if they base them base them on a hundred millennia of plundered science; less standing on the shoulders of giants and more climbing over their corpses.

auir999
September 28th, 2004, 12:03 PM
developing technology means to build on yours and many others reasearch. otherwise we would get no where. And Daniel did say that anubis was after the technology that had inspired the sarcoughagus. We do the same things, how do you think we improve our technologies. We essentially "steal" the original design (like BMW and FORD) and make it to suit our needs and or better.

Sy~
September 28th, 2004, 03:37 PM
The personal shield was originally a new innovation; Teal'c had never seen one, despite serving Apophis for decades. Then Marduk turned out to have one in The Tomb.

It's also possible that the shield isn't on the hand device, just the controller. The jewel on the back of the device seems to operate as something of a universal remote after all.

The main issue is that Goa'uld tech only works for Goa'uld: You need naquadah in your blood. They managed to make the communication sphere work without, but that was not exactly a man-portable system and the sphere is usable by Jaffa anyway, so isn't quite as restricted as a ribbon device.


Cant you just inject yourself with a shot or two of Naquada????

Sy saves the day, SG-1's been fitted with personal shields, got bored of the fact they we're invinsable and decided to give them all to the tokra since they dont have any and always die....

(You talk too much Sy) I know... its torrets syndrome :S

Sy~

Dahak
September 28th, 2004, 04:09 PM
To the response of whether the Goa'uld can invent items I would say they can. The snakes themselves are pretty smart and they retain what their hosts knew before. But the Goa'uld are lazy. I couldn't imagine a Manhattan type project with hundreds of Goa'uld working on some new super weapon.
Plus what would having better technology gain them? Before SG1 started bumping off the System Lords the Tok'ra were a minor annoyance. The Asgard were way too tough. An arms race to become the only major System Lord would just make it more likely that the Goa'uld would get killed. Plus then the danger raises that some rebel humans will gain those weapons.
Slave societies are not well known for improving their technology. The Goa'uld don't care if the Jaffa have better living conditions. If the medicine improves. If more crops are grown. As a matter of fact they are better off with a subsistence level for their slaves. That way their slaves are more worshipful of the "wrathful god".

*RA
September 28th, 2004, 04:14 PM
There a gua'ld out there now doing research, there always looking for new technolgy, Narity (how do you spell her name) for example, the most powerfull always seem to build a new more powerfull mother ship than the rest, Apohpis and Anubis for example

LordAnubis
September 28th, 2004, 06:54 PM
To the response of whether the Goa'uld can invent items I would say they can. The snakes themselves are pretty smart and they retain what their hosts knew before. But the Goa'uld are lazy. I couldn't imagine a Manhattan type project with hundreds of Goa'uld working on some new super weapon.
Plus what would having better technology gain them? Before SG1 started bumping off the System Lords the Tok'ra were a minor annoyance. The Asgard were way too tough. An arms race to become the only major System Lord would just make it more likely that the Goa'uld would get killed. Plus then the danger raises that some rebel humans will gain those weapons.
Slave societies are not well known for improving their technology. The Goa'uld don't care if the Jaffa have better living conditions. If the medicine improves. If more crops are grown. As a matter of fact they are better off with a subsistence level for their slaves. That way their slaves are more worshipful of the "wrathful god".
Do you really think that's true? I mean, they strive to improve their technology in order to conquer more worlds, expand into other galaxies one day, defeat the Asgard, extend their lives, etc. If the Jaffa live longer and are well fed, the Goa'uld stay protected and keep their empires. No Jaffa, no Goa'uld. Of course they want to improve their technology and have shown in many episodes over 8 years that they do create things, and do innovate. They are lazy and they do fight amongst themselves, and these qualities aren't too great when you should be investing more time and energy into improvement, but they do it from time to time.

Ancient 1
September 28th, 2004, 07:17 PM
The ribbon device only works for Goa'uld hosts or former hosts: Did they just find a weapon that happened to work for them and no-one else? The Goa'uld clearly develop their own mechanisms, even if they base them base them on a hundred millennia of plundered science; less standing on the shoulders of giants and more climbing over their corpses.
No, they probably got that idea from the ancients and the way their tech will only work for the ones who have their certain gene. The Goa'uld just did it with naquada. It's still a ripoff of others.

Mr Prophet
September 29th, 2004, 07:59 AM
No, they probably got that idea from the ancients and the way their tech will only work for the ones who have their certain gene. The Goa'uld just did it with naquada. It's still a ripoff of others.

If you take someone's research and do your own thing with it, that's not a ripoff; it's developing your own technology. They designed it, did the R&D, refined it over the years with more and more labour-saving gadgets. That's technological progress right there.

Oh, and I always figured that naquadah would just flush out of your body without a chemical, released by the Goa'uld, which fixes the naquadah in the physiology or some equivalent; I assume Cassie to be able to use a ribbon device, just as she is able to sense Goa'uld. Pure supposition, but that's mine. Incidentally, I also assume that the drug which made the symbiote undetectable in Fallout did so by somehow 'neutralising' the naquadah signature, as a side effect rendering the Goa'uld temporarily incapable of using ribbon devices and the like.

Dahak
September 29th, 2004, 04:58 PM
Do you really think that's true? I mean, they strive to improve their technology in order to conquer more worlds, expand into other galaxies one day, defeat the Asgard, extend their lives, etc. If the Jaffa live longer and are well fed, the Goa'uld stay protected and keep their empires. No Jaffa, no Goa'uld. Of course they want to improve their technology and have shown in many episodes over 8 years that they do create things, and do innovate. They are lazy and they do fight amongst themselves, and these qualities aren't too great when you should be investing more time and energy into improvement, but they do it from time to time.


Yes I do think that is true. I said BEFORE the humans started bumping off the SL. Yes they do want to beat the Asgard but enough to actually work on it? I doubt it. If a race wanted to conquer the Gou'ald or exterminate them they would probably make some major advancements quickly. The Goa'uld live thousands of years they aren't in any real hurry to beat the Asgard. Hell, the Asgard are going to die off in a 10 or so millenia anyway due to their cloning problems. Why fight some huge war that they might lose and would certainly cost a lot of SL their lives? Now the humans are a different problem.
As far as the Jaffa go I think you misunderstand me. Of course the Goa'uld want the Jaffa to live. But they don't care much about improving the Jaffa's lives. Why should they care about cutting infant mortality? Helping Jaffa's wives live through childbirth? Making sure Jaffa children get inoculated? If a major diesease threatened to wipe out a large percentage of their slaves then the Goa'uld would swoop in and save them with their "godlike" powers to make their worshippers that much more grateful. But improving their slaves lives would cause problems (for the Goa'uld) that would have to be dealt with eventually.

Ancient 1
September 30th, 2004, 05:41 PM
Well, I'm willing to agree to disagree. After all, I'm now seeing red for my "close-minded opinion" I think that was how he put it. :p

LordAnubis
September 30th, 2004, 07:28 PM
Well, I'm willing to agree to disagree. After all, I'm now seeing red for my "close-minded opinion" I think that was how he put it. :p
Well, ya know, you're makng the Goa'uld out to be brainless, unintelligent idiots who steal everything and take credit for it. Ya know, these brainless snakes were flying huge, advanced ships 12,000 - 20,000 years ago. Their ships don't resemble any other ship we've seen so far. It's a good possibility they invented their own ship tech. In fact, the only tech they have pilfered from the Ancients, or anyone else for that matter, seems to be the ring transporters, using the gates, and the healing hand device and sarcophagus. Maybe a few other things here and there, but their ships do not resembler puddle jumpers, their weapons are not the squid thingys, and their ribbon device is totally unlike anything we've seen before.

Yet, you think they are not creators or innovators? I bet you think the Asgard are jsut super smart and innovative little guys, huh? They actually knew and worked with the Ancients, the Goa'uld did not. How do you know the Ancients weren't like some rich daddy and just gave the Asgard their tech? You know, instead of earning it the Goa'uld, who retro-engineered or created their own, the Ancients, who were buddies of the Asgard, just showed them FTL tech or gave them old ships. You know, the inside of that one Asgard ship in "Fifth Race" looked sorta like parts of Atlantis :)

The Goa'uld are intelligent, creative, and innovative snakes; they have done a lot in the time they've been in power in this galaxy. We aren't much better: hell SG-1's mission is to acquire alien tech. The Prometheus is hardly our creation; it was created from Goauld tech and given some modifications with Asgard help.

All I'm saying is, be more open to this idea. Daniel has strong feelings; he has voiced those opinions about the Goa'uld on many episodes, but he isn't always right, and sometimes he was speculating.

Ancient 1
October 1st, 2004, 12:36 PM
I do give them credit for being smart enough to get out of the water! It's not all bad...even though they tend to be; with the exception of the Tok"ra.