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    Learning from Nature -- How to make 304 nuke missles more effective.

    Well I was looking through some of my stuff from college and cleaning and straightening today and happened to flip through one of my old Physics books and came across an interesting section in the fundamental fluid flow section.

    Did you know that when a bird of pray ( Eagle, hawk, etc. ) makes a power dive down upon its prey it it does not fly straight at the intended target? Rather, it takes a corkscrew/spiral path towards the target. Why? Because of the way a birds eyes are mounted it has poor vision when looking directly ahead and better vision when looking to the side. So it has three choices, fly straight towards the target and have poor vision while doing so (not to smart), fly straight towards the target and turn its head to the side while doing so (massive increase in fluid drag), or take the siral path while keeping its prey in the forward corner of an eye and only have a 3% reduction in efficency compared to taking a straight path with straight head.

    So, okay, the missles don't have any problems with seeing straight forward. But, when flying in a straight line towards their target they are pretty darn easy to intercept. So with only a 3% reduction in efficiency (time to target in the case of a missile) you can fly a corkscrew/spiral pattern instead making it much harder to shoot down the missle. Next have the radius and rotational speed of the spiral pattern determined by a randomly generated wave form and you have something pretty darn hard to shoot down.

    Hell, with only a 3% reduction in efficiency it should at least be worth a try.

    Come to think of it, for at least the first time we saw them in action from the Antartic Outpost against Anubis fleet the drones seemed to fly a randomized corkscrew/spiral pattern in a solid stream up towards the fleet.
    Last edited by turbo1889; 12 July 2007, 10:13 PM.

    #2
    Good point, but missiles aren't that effective anyway.

    Vala,

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      #3
      Originally posted by turbo1889 View Post
      Well I was looking through some of my stuff from college and cleaning and straightening today and happened to flip through one of my old Physics books and came across an interesting section in the fundamental fluid flow section.

      Did you know that when a bird of pray ( Eagle, hawk, etc. ) makes a power dive down upon its prey it it does not fly straight at the intended target? Rather, it takes a corkscrew/spiral path towards the target. Why? Because of the way a birds eyes are mounted it has poor vision when looking directly ahead and better vision when looking to the side. So it has three choices, fly straight towards the target and have poor vision while doing so (not to smart), fly straight towards the target and turn its head to the side while doing so (massive increase in fluid drag), or take the siral path while keeping its prey in the forward corner of an eye and only have a 3% reduction in efficency compared to taking a straight path with straight head.

      So, okay, the missles don't have any problems with seeing straight forward. But, when flying in a straight line towards their target they are pretty darn easy to intercept. So with only a 3% reduction in efficiency (time to target in the case of a missile) you can fly a corkscrew/spiral pattern instead making it much harder to shoot down the missle. Next have the radius and rotational speed of the spiral pattern determined by a randomly generated wave form and you have something pretty darn hard to shoot down.

      Hell, with only a 3% reduction in efficiency it should at least be worth a try.

      Come to think of it, for at least the first time we saw them in action from the Antartic Outpost against Anubis fleet the drones seemed to fly a randomized corkscrew/spiral pattern in a solid stream up towards the fleet.
      Ok using real world physics, the reason missiles travel in a straight trajectory is that it is more fuel effective. In a corkscrew the missile will burn off a higher fuel load (not good when they have to get somewhere). Thats why in SGA they travel straight.

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        #4
        Well bullets spiral.

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          #5
          Originally posted by marty2006 View Post
          Well bullets spiral.
          really?
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            #6
            Originally posted by marty2006 View Post
            Well bullets spiral.
            No they spin.
            All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing-Edmund Burke

            The question which once haunted my being has been answered. The future is not fixed, and my choices are my own... and yet, how ironic! For I now find, I have no choice at all! I am warrior... let the battle be joined.-Dinobot-Code of Hero

            Don't blame me, I voted Cthulhu

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              #7
              LOL yea bullets spin to KEEP them flying in a straight line, they don't spiral on their way to the target.

              And despite the fuel expenditures, I like this idea. Our nukes can be very effective against Hives as we've already seen, it would only take 1 or 2 in the right place to destroy one. That would be a huge advantage compared to only having railguns.
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                #8
                Originally posted by Jimbo-DR View Post
                LOL yea bullets spin to KEEP them flying in a straight line, they don't spiral on their way to the target.

                And despite the fuel expenditures, I like this idea. Our nukes can be very effective against Hives as we've already seen, it would only take 1 or 2 in the right place to destroy one. That would be a huge advantage compared to only having railguns.
                Well cartoon bullets might spiral.

                If they put inertial dampeners on the missiles, which we saw they could do in Ethon, the fuel expenditure wouldn't be that bad.
                All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing-Edmund Burke

                The question which once haunted my being has been answered. The future is not fixed, and my choices are my own... and yet, how ironic! For I now find, I have no choice at all! I am warrior... let the battle be joined.-Dinobot-Code of Hero

                Don't blame me, I voted Cthulhu

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                  #9
                  Originally posted by Jimbo-DR View Post
                  LOL yea bullets spin to KEEP them flying in a straight line, they don't spiral on their way to the target.

                  And despite the fuel expenditures, I like this idea. Our nukes can be very effective against Hives as we've already seen, it would only take 1 or 2 in the right place to destroy one. That would be a huge advantage compared to only having railguns.
                  nukes only beamed inside can be very effective.

                  nukes hitting from missiles at most would severely cripple the ship(season 3 episode 1 SGA). Now, more than one hitting it will cause more damage and completely destroy it.

                  If missiles spiral to their target, time is taken away from the amount needed to hit the target. By then the darts would be deployed and the missiles taken out.
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                    #10
                    Originally posted by jds1982 View Post
                    No they spin.
                    Yea i just used spiral because he did, pointing out bullets do the same sort of thing.

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                      #11
                      Originally posted by marty2006 View Post
                      Yea i just used spiral because he did, pointing out bullets do the same sort of thing.
                      But what bullets do, and what the op is proposing are two completely different things. The bullet still travels in a more or less straight path while the bullet itself turns, whereas the op proposes a corkscrew flight path.
                      All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing-Edmund Burke

                      The question which once haunted my being has been answered. The future is not fixed, and my choices are my own... and yet, how ironic! For I now find, I have no choice at all! I am warrior... let the battle be joined.-Dinobot-Code of Hero

                      Don't blame me, I voted Cthulhu

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                        #12
                        Okay, I guess I should have specified this in my original post:



                        The red lines are the missle path and the grey line is the center of the spiral. Yes, I know they look like sine waves, but that's a side view. I'm not talking about trying to do the upper one -- you are right that would waste too much fuel and take a long time to get to the hive thus defeating the whole purpose. I'm talking about the tighter lower spiral path. Low amplitude and long wavelength. Just enough to make the missle hard to shoot down because you can't hardly lock on to it.

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                          #13
                          I don't know that path is still fairly straight, all the Hive would really have to do is shoot a whole lot in the general direction of the missile, or send darts like they do now. The missiles just need to be a lot faster.
                          All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing-Edmund Burke

                          The question which once haunted my being has been answered. The future is not fixed, and my choices are my own... and yet, how ironic! For I now find, I have no choice at all! I am warrior... let the battle be joined.-Dinobot-Code of Hero

                          Don't blame me, I voted Cthulhu

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                            #14
                            The missiles of the 304's could be improved by the following:

                            1. Improving the missile's engine

                            Too many times have we seen our missiles destroyed before they reach their targets, either by point defenses or enemy fighters. Our missiles are currently to slow in their role as anti-ship weapons.

                            2. More advanced on board computer

                            A more advanced computer would help the missiles avoid the previously mentioned countermeasures.

                            3. The use of a shaped charge

                            In a normal explosion energy radiates in all directions in axises. This means that when our missiles do reach the target much of the explosive force is actually radiates away from the target. The use a shaped charge would help focus more of the blast toward the intended target.
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                              #15
                              Adding it would make the missle a little bit harder to take out. However it would take longer to hit the target meaning the enemy has more time to take it out.

                              The main problem is that they only need to shoot in the general direction of it & with enough blasts, it's pretty much guaranteed to take it out.

                              Missiles are useless when fired at shielded targets, so it's only good for use on Hives as a primary weapon. The main problem is the distance that the 304's get to the Hive in order to fire. They aren't gonna risk going in right next to it for various reasons. So always keep a safe distance when engaing Wraith ships. Darts & weapons fire has always intercepted all but 1 missile that's ever been fired at Hives. In order to achieve that, they had to empty their entire arsenal of nukes.

                              Firing straight is always the quickest route. So putting any sort of swerve on the missile slows it down & gives the enemy more chance to get to it, either by fighters or weapons. So unless they got right up close to a Hive & caught them totally unexpected, it probably wouldn't work. Which if they could do that, then they wouldn't need to not worry about it not going straight.

                              The best thing to do is work on the burn engine. Get it to go faster. This way they can drop out of HS & in a few secs it's hit. Taking away valuable reaction time to prevent them from firing their weapons or launching Darts. They seem to be working along this road because the ones Odyssey launched in 'Family Ties' were lighting quick, much quicker than any I've ever seen before. Maybe in S4 when the ships get upgraded, they may upgrade the missiles to a faster version.

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