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    Ori Technology - All Powerful or Not?

    Okay, since I'm tired of hearing people say that "the Ori have all the knowledge of the universe", I decided to lay down the canon law.

    According to our dear friend Daniel in "Full Circle":

    Ascension doesn’t make you all knowing or all powerful. It is just the beginning of the journey.
    Now, the Ori and the Ancients are both ascended, but that does NOT mean they have gained infinite knowledge of the universe, or even infinite understanding. All it means is that they are able to grasp and understand the universe better than any other beings.

    That said, since they do NOT have all the knowledge of the universe, their tech cannot be the unbeatable thing some people make it out to be. It is not the pinnacle of all science or weaponry, as the Ori could not possibly instruct their followers to construct such things (seeing as they are not all-knowing).

    Please, fell free to debate.
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    #2
    They don't know everything at one moment in time. They just have to look it up, and they will understand it and duplicate it.

    Asgard tech in the Odyssey in superior to anything in the universe.

    But the Ori will eventually duplicate, because the Ascended Ori will tell their followers how. Earth will need a new strategy to beat the Ori, going weapon on weapon=failure.

    That Merlin's weapon was good, now can they finish Adria or change the mind of their followers.

    As Vala said: "Adria does not know everything, she is still human". Which implies, Ascended beings at least collectively know everything.

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      #3
      1st Point: You have no canon proof of that. Pure speculation (which is almost moot due to Daniel's statement.)

      2nd Point: We don't know that. For all we know, there could be tech out there far more powerful than that. Again, speculation. (For instance, we've never seen an Ori main weapon used on an Ori ship. For all we know, it could easily destroy its own ship in one shot)

      3rd Point: Again, no proof of that. And since the Ori do not know everything, there's no guarantee they will. (Also, the Ancients could keep the Ori from seeing the Asgard tech as long as the Odyssey remains inside the Milky Way.)

      4th Point: That has nothing to due with the subject...

      5th Point: All it implies is that humans know very little.
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        #4
        Daniel said he does not know everything.

        No being is going to be able to know all the knowledge of the universe at one point in time. The Ascended beings only have to look it up.

        Unless of course other Ascended shield that knowledge, that is obvious.

        As for being all powerful, only in religious myth. A being that is all powerful should be able to do anything (ex: unmake creation).

        As for the Ori ships: Only the Asgard latest tech beat it. Nothing else came remotely close to even scratching a Ori ship. Only a matter of time before Ascended Ori duplicate these Asgard weapons, they were used in the Asgard galaxy (thus not shielded by the Ancients)


        So far though, Odyssey easily triumphs all know ships. It is hard to imagine a race that would be more knowledgeable/advanced than the Ancients and Asgard, which would be required to build a more powerful ship than the Odyssey...possibly the Replicators by copying all tech.

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          #5
          Ascending by its self does not grant you access to information way beyond anything mortals can perceive. It gives you the ability to see more, what is seen leads to a better understanding and that is what makes them "smarter or more powerful". Take Anubis, he was partially ascended for several hundred years but even with his partial ascension, compared to the ancients he knows very little. Reason he knew fairly little prior to his ascension, and didn't have enough time and vision to accelerate his understanding to their level. If knowledge was bestowed upon you as a welcoming gift, Anubis would have had it all before they realized who he was.

          OT: do you think his host ascended too, or just the symbiote, or both but the host is still a prisoner?
          Their white flags are no match to our guns!!

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            #6
            I agree the ori aren't as powerful as they are thought to be. Even if they had all the knowledge doesnt mean the followers could understand anything the acended ori could tell them to make. So they there is a limit to how far the followers could go with the help of the ori.
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              #7
              EXAMPLES of how Ascended beings are not all pwoerful:

              Daniel:

              - "Ascension doesn't make you all knowing!"
              - As an ascended being, he did not know where, exactly, the Eye of Ra was located. He only knew it was on Abydos because Anubis had looked everywhere else.

              Oma Desala:

              - Has also said on numerous occasions that ascension does not give one all the knowledge of the universe, only a greater ability to understand things.
              - As an ascended being, she did not know how to kill Anubis, only how to occupy him.

              The Ori:

              - If they had all the knowledge of the universe, they would know how to construct shields and weapons are superior to that of the Asgard and Ancients. We have seen that they cannot.
              - The Ori have demonstrated that they are unable to know EVERYTHING, seeing as they severely underestimated Earth. If they had all the knowledge of the universe, they would have known how to destroy the Tau'ri long ago, and how to kill the Ancients, as well. Seeing as they don't, they must rely on their armies and fleet to do the job for them until they can simply overwhelm the Ancients through power.
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                #8
                I'm not sure the Ori can even see into the Milky Way, even now. And as such, they really aren't able to "duplicate" the asgard upgrades. The only Ori that CAN see into the Milky Way is BAAdria, and even then we're not sure what is the full condition of him/her/it.

                I was under the understanding that ascension is only local to the galaxy where one is inhabiting. If it was able to extend beyond, the Ori would have invaded Pegasus long ago.

                But... meh... I kinda see Ascension as getting an all-access pass to the library of congress. Sure, there's a ton of knowledge there, but you gotta find it all.

                Comment


                  #9
                  The Ori are an extremely powerful and dangerous enemy. But they do have a weakness, similar to the Goa'uld (or rather, they share one of the Goa'uld's weaknesses) ; they are dependent on their followers.

                  The Goa'uld had control over most of the galaxy but they deliberately limited their own species growth (the eating symbiotes scene in Summit that was never really explored) and they did not appear to have many industrial centers. They couldn't churn out enormous fleets because they couldn't allow the Jaffa and human slaves to become part of a developed society capable of mass production, too much risk they would develop their own ideas and seize control.

                  In Crusade, it's established that there is a relatively extensive underground resistance within the Ori galaxy. The Ori possibly tolerate this (by leaving it to the Priors to squash) for the same reason the Goa'uld jumpstarted the Jaffa rebellion ; to gather 'unbelievers' in the same place, so they can be routinely and publicly quelled.

                  But it does expose a problem with controlling their followers. Even in the Ori galaxy, there are individuals who will not express the complete devotion necessary, and a lifetime of prostration makes it relatively easy to fool the Priors. Thus, they have to limit the technology available to followers and restrict their development to restrict their ideas. Of course, this in turn creates the problem, because the Ori promise knowledge with one hand, but restrict access to ideas and knowledge with the other.

                  For example, the ships. They could've built ships of all sizes for different roles, instead there are two classes : the enormous ships that can only be flown by Priors and fighters, presumably flown by crusader pilots. The crusaders play dispensable roles in dispensable craft, the indispensable Priors control the near-invincible ships that perform most of the duty.

                  Crusaders transport to planets using rings. Doubtless, the Priors could be instructed to build beam transports but they can't trust all the crusaders to use them properly, all it would take is one individual in the right place to cause a potential disaster. Even crusader armour is not particularly strong enough to withstand modern weaponry (i can't recall if we've seen it against energy weapons), can't give them anything they could use against the cause.

                  There simply aren't enough individuals devoted enough to become Priors to monitor everyone and run the war effort by themselves (though Priors are equipped with self-destruct, Gerak's one act of defiance was a huge blow to the cause at the time). Prior-hood requires individuals whose belief will remain strong despite everything they have to do. Even Tomin, devout enough to mass-slaughter on the spot, was disturbed enough by his actions to be swayed afterwards.

                  Thus, the Ori's potential technology level is severly held back by their need to control the followers.

                  Spoiler:
                  also, it's clear to me that the Asgard didn't possess effective weapons against Ori ships in Camelot but created them in the intervening year. They probably did this either by using the Ancient knowledge repository, or by studying the Ori-designed satellite from Ethon, i like the latter theory, partly because the Asgard would've researched such weapons for anti Replicator use

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                    #10
                    well i would say they're powerful but not fully, i mean they have to use rings to transport down

                    in back in the sg-1 days it was so hard to steal a hatak and in season 10 you could just sneak in and fly off with it(for a few hours)

                    i dont see why we just steal hataks and put them as earth space defences
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                      #11
                      Because by season 9, they were largely ineffective?

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                        #12
                        Well I go with s09119! He's got it "all" down. The Ori can't see into this galaxy thats why they're trying to change it. And the Ori are terrible! The Asguard none asencded beings can defeat them so they are terible!!!

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                          #13
                          The ascended beings are not all powerful but lets say an Asgard who made the Beam Weapons on the oddy go to the Ori galaxy then the Ori would know all about those weapons. I mean when orlin took human form he still knew all about the prior so as long as the asgard don't go to the ori universe then we are good to go (But they are dead, maybe that is why they are dead)
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