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    Vacuum Energy (ZPM energy)

    This seems to come up on the forums quite often and few people seem to understand what vacuum energy is. Don't ask me where I read this from, but I remember it from somewhere... Also, please don't quote me, as I may have the details incorrect (all from memory).

    Theoretically, in all regions of space there are a near infinite (but still finite) number of pairs of particles and anti-particles that are constantly being generated and destroyed (via colliding with each other). If I remember correctly, the energy that they produce when destroying each other is channeled directly into the creation of the next pair, ad infinitum. It happens constantly. This is vacuum energy (AKA Zero Point Energy).

    You can extract usable energy from these particles by somehow separating the two at the moment of creation. This would require a HUGE force differential in the very tiny spaces (smaller than an atom) that these particles are separated by. Black holes can be this powerful. It has been theorized that black holes that directly produce gamma rays are doing this by absorbing one of the particles and letting the other get deflected in it's gravity.

    In relation to Project Arcturus, extracting vacuum energy from our own universe allows us to use one half of the pair as a power source and the other becomes the "unpredictable particles" that breached containment as hard radiation (gamma rays?). Arcturus may have even been using some of the second half as an energy producer, but was unable to contain all of it, due to their unpredictable nature.

    In relation to ZPMs, this process should be the same, except you're containing the radiation inside a tiny universe. This is a safety measure. When a ZPM is said to reach maximum entropy, I'm guessing this means all of the particle pairs in the mini-verse have been separated and thus, no more usable particles will be created.

    Since any universe contains a limited number of these particle pairs, eventually it can run out. However, size is important. The larger the universe, the more vacuum energy can be extracted from it. Thus, tiny little ZPM runs out eventually, while normal size universe keeps going and going and going...

    Edit: I think I read that in a Stephen Hawking book, but I'm not sure.
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    #2
    . . . Don't the ZPM's operate by drawing energy from an artificial portion of subspace?

    Rather than our actual universe?

    this is all just to confusing for me lol

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      #3
      Doesn't a Vax or Dyson use Vacuum Energy?

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        #4
        Originally posted by B O Y S C O U T View Post
        . . . Don't the ZPM's operate by drawing energy from an artificial portion of subspace?

        Rather than our actual universe?

        this is all just to confusing for me lol
        yes, ZPMs draw energy from an artificial region of subspace, as rodney said in Rising i think. Arcturus sought to try to draw energy from our own. The one in the epi with Jeannie was sorta like a ZPM but on a larger scale involving connecting to another actual universe and drawing energy from it and dumping the exotic particles on the other side.
        That's the plan?!? That's the plan. That plan sucks!

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          #5
          Originally posted by ascendedancient42
          This seems to come up on the forums quite often and few people seem to understand what vacuum energy is. Don't ask me where I read this from, but I remember it from somewhere... Also, please don't quote me, as I may have the details incorrect (all from memory).
          Perhaps you should refresh your memory before posting on the subject?

          Originally posted by ascendedancient42
          If I remember correctly, the energy that they produce when destroying each other is channeled directly into the creation of the next pair, ad infinitum. It happens constantly. This is vacuum energy (AKA Zero Point Energy).
          That isn't how it works. The generation of virtual particles actually "steals" energy from the universe. Conservation of energy says you can't get something from nothing, so these particles have to destroy each other and return the stolen energy before the universe notices it's missing. This all happens in such a brief time that the particles really don't exist, which is why they're called virtual particles.

          Originally posted by ascendedancient42
          You can extract usable energy from these particles by somehow separating the two at the moment of creation. This would require a HUGE force differential in the very tiny spaces (smaller than an atom) that these particles are separated by. Black holes can be this powerful. It has been theorized that black holes that directly produce gamma rays are doing this by absorbing one of the particles and letting the other get deflected in it's gravity.
          You can't separate virtual particles unless they're being generated at the event horizon of a black hole. One falls in the hole, the other particle flies away from the hole becoming a real particle. The problem is that both particles existed due to their stealing energy from the universe which has to be paid back in some way or another.
          In this case, according to Stephan Hawking, the black hole loses mass in the form of "Hawking radiation". Over billions of years this ultimately cause the hole to evaporate into nothing.

          By the way, zero-point energy is called that because it's supposed to be the lowest amount of energy a particle can have. It wouldn't be very productive to use such a process for power generation, but we're talking science here, not science fiction.

          Originally posted by ascendedancient42
          When a ZPM is said to reach maximum entropy, I'm guessing this means all of the particle pairs in the mini-verse have been separated and thus, no more usable particles will be created.
          More like the "mini-verse" as you put it is full of one kind of particle, so no more particle-antiparticle reactions can take place.
          The funny thing is, over time ZPMs should gain mass, but that's science again, not science fiction.

          Originally posted by 123NotIt View Post
          yes, ZPMs draw energy from an artificial region of subspace, as rodney said in Rising i think.
          It's a self-contained region of sub-space, not an artificial region. I'm guessing an artificial region of sub-space wouldn't generate much power.
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            #6
            oops, my bad.
            That's the plan?!? That's the plan. That plan sucks!

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              #7
              Originally posted by ascendedancient42 View Post
              This seems to come up on the forums quite often and few people seem to understand what vacuum energy is. Don't ask me where I read this from, but I remember it from somewhere... Also, please don't quote me, as I may have the details incorrect (all from memory).

              Theoretically, in all regions of space there are a near infinite (but still finite) number of pairs of particles and anti-particles that are constantly being generated and destroyed (via colliding with each other). If I remember correctly, the energy that they produce when destroying each other is channeled directly into the creation of the next pair, ad infinitum. It happens constantly. This is vacuum energy (AKA Zero Point Energy).

              You can extract usable energy from these particles by somehow separating the two at the moment of creation. This would require a HUGE force differential in the very tiny spaces (smaller than an atom) that these particles are separated by. Black holes can be this powerful. It has been theorized that black holes that directly produce gamma rays are doing this by absorbing one of the particles and letting the other get deflected in it's gravity.

              In relation to Project Arcturus, extracting vacuum energy from our own universe allows us to use one half of the pair as a power source and the other becomes the "unpredictable particles" that breached containment as hard radiation (gamma rays?). Arcturus may have even been using some of the second half as an energy producer, but was unable to contain all of it, due to their unpredictable nature.

              In relation to ZPMs, this process should be the same, except you're containing the radiation inside a tiny universe. This is a safety measure. When a ZPM is said to reach maximum entropy, I'm guessing this means all of the particle pairs in the mini-verse have been separated and thus, no more usable particles will be created.

              Since any universe contains a limited number of these particle pairs, eventually it can run out. However, size is important. The larger the universe, the more vacuum energy can be extracted from it. Thus, tiny little ZPM runs out eventually, while normal size universe keeps going and going and going...

              Edit: I think I read that in a Stephen Hawking book, but I'm not sure.
              Eh! Close enough
              THERE ARE THINGS KNOWN...
              AND THINGS UNKNOWN...
              AND IN BETWEEN...LIES THE STARGATE

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                #8
                Oh it's artificial alright.

                McKAY: A Zero Point Module is an artificially created region of subspace time. It's kind of like a miniature universe in a bottle.

                ZELENKA: It extracts vacuum energy from this artificial region of subspace time until it reaches maximum entropy.

                ZELENKA: Project Arcturus was attempting to extract vacuum energy from our own space-time, making it potentially as powerful as the scope of the universe itself.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Yes but you have to remember that Subspace is theoretical and in usual Brad Wright fashion was taken from Star Trek.(His other favorite is Star Wars)

                  But having said that quantum physics does show the possibility of 1 to 2 Dimensions below spacetime(hence the name - subspace), with one of these dimensions possibly being time.

                  Zero-Point Energy(aka Vacuum Energy aka Quantum Energy) gets it's name because even at absolute zero (Zero Degrees Kelvin' -273.15 degrees Celsius), even though all movement in matter stops energy is still present.

                  The name Vacuum Energy comes from an experiment using two copper plates side by side and generating and electromagnetic field to create and artificial vacuum, energy was still present.

                  This mysterious energy was given the name quantum energy, simply because Quantum comes from the word Quanta meaning "Small packets of energy".

                  There are a lot of theoretical physicists that believe in string theory, which is quite simple to explain. Strings are vibrating strands of energy, each strand vibrates at a different frequency the symphony of which is thought to be the very foundation of matter and energy in the universe or multiverse(M-Theory).

                  Anyway I digress...
                  As we all know the universe/multiverse is made of matter and energy, and perhaps the theoretical dark matter and dark energy(negative energy).
                  Dark matter is the theortical explanation for all the gravity that is present in the universe/multiverse, with know apparent source.

                  Anyway, if anyone has any questions I can answer for you, but back to the matter at hand.

                  Simply put ZPE is the energy that exists at the quantum sub-atomic level and is present no matter the conditions.

                  There is a relationship in part to Planck Energy(10 to the 19 billion electron volts) and is the ultimate form of energy.

                  The Hyperspace Window Generator to go extragalactic would have to produce Planck Energy to make the journey shown in man of the shows starship travel, the Stargate itself would have to produce Planck Energy to make the 8th or 9th Chevron lock on.

                  10 to the 19 billion electron volts is the highest amount of energy capable and is the energy produced by the universe, so you can see how much energy is needed.
                  THERE ARE THINGS KNOWN...
                  AND THINGS UNKNOWN...
                  AND IN BETWEEN...LIES THE STARGATE

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                    #10
                    Originally posted by Kal-El View Post
                    Eh! Close enough
                    Thanks for not shredding me just cause I got a few details wrong.

                    To others: I did ask you not to quote me for a reason...I specifically said I may have the details wrong.
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                      #11
                      My appologise, that was not my intention.
                      THERE ARE THINGS KNOWN...
                      AND THINGS UNKNOWN...
                      AND IN BETWEEN...LIES THE STARGATE

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                        #12
                        Originally posted by Kal-El View Post
                        My appologise, that was not my intention.
                        So you intended to shed me? I'm a little confused now. Ahh, but what else is new?
                        Mammals suck!

                        "Real men don't need inertia dampers."

                        Check out my GURPS campaign setting wiki, Islands of War!

                        Stop sending me friendship requests. I will deny them all, regardless of who they come from.

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                          #13
                          Tis is what i put together on another forum

                          The ZPM gets it energy from vacuum energy. The power source is subatomic wormholes opening and closing constantly in and out of subspace. A ZPM contains an artificially created region of subspace from which this power is drawn. Since this process is thermodynamically irreversible, every ZPM (if used) will eventually reach maximum entropy, at which point it is depleted and can no longer provide power.

                          zero-point energy is what a quantum mechanical physical system such as a wormhole might possess. it is a synonym for the vacuum energy, an amount of energy associated with the vacuum of empty space. The zero-point energy of the vacuum leads directly to the Casimir effect. There is the concept of zero-point energy, and the hint of a possibility of extracting "free energy" from the vacuum.
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                            #14
                            Is it possible to recharge a ZPM or is it like a battery (once depleted, unusable)?

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                              #15
                              Originally posted by Cyborg86 View Post
                              Is it possible to recharge a ZPM or is it like a battery (once depleted, unusable)?
                              ZPMs cannot be recharged.
                              Mammals suck!

                              "Real men don't need inertia dampers."

                              Check out my GURPS campaign setting wiki, Islands of War!

                              Stop sending me friendship requests. I will deny them all, regardless of who they come from.

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