Looking For Shippers and Non-Shippers To . . .

[UberAeryn]

Compose written arguments for and against ship; not necessarily Stargate ship, but ship in general. If the authors give me permission I'll post everything I receive on my site, provided I have an equal number of pro and con arguments.

I'm not trying to resolve anything, because God knows THAT will never happen, I'm just interested in why fans think the way they do and that it would make for interesting reading.

I'll also provide a forum for discussion if necessary.

If interested, e-mail me; if not, then off I go!

Aeryn

[DownFallAngel]

If you really wanna know why shippers ship, or why there are anti-shippers, then go and head into the shipper threads, and just read the posts. Alot of it is speculation, and "I wishe Jack does marry Sam" stuff, but some people do argue these points.

You might just wanna post this info in the actual ship threads.

[UberAeryn]

If you really wanna know why shippers ship, or why there are anti-shippers, then go and head into the shipper threads, and just read the posts. Alot of it is speculation, and "I wishe Jack does marry Sam" stuff, but some people do argue these points.

You might just wanna post this info in the actual ship threads.

I haven't gone into the ship threads for specifically that reason. I want noromo opinions, ship opinions - not speculation.

I'm looking for people who can formulate credible arguments on both sides.

[David]

Aeryn, I'm moving this to our Fandom section. Thanks!

[UberAeryn]

Kewl.

[michelleb]

Ok, here goes.

Why do I ship? Because I can't not ship is the short answer. Since I started watching sci-fi, I have shipped. For the Doctors and his companions and Avon and Cally, up to Aeryn and John and Sam and Jack.

I enjoy the science fiction. I love the idea that stories can be told have no boundaries. That anything and everything is possible, and will happen and can happen. Having said that, unless I care about a character, I shan't care if he gets sucked up by a T-Rex after taking a wrong turn down a timeline-wormhole. I need to care about a character. And to care about a character you have to know the best and worst of them, see them at their most vulnerable and their strongest. And characters show their best and worst traits in two situations..at war, and in love. These are the only two times when a character is pushed to the extreme, pushed beyond normality, broken, and mended, and stripped of all artifice and defence. A character can not be at war all the time, therefore, he (or she) must be in love to show these moments.

Examples..Hmmm...Avon was interesting. Fascinating even. But I only became truely intrigued by him (to the point of buying all the videos) when I started the Avon/Cally ship. Suddenly I saw a new side to him. Something he kept hidden, and repressed. A part of him he tried to control, but could not. In his little glances at cally, and the one kiss, and the moments of understanding, of touching, I felt we were coming close to the true Avon.

So that's my reason. Because it reveals sides to a character that otherwise we would never have seen. A past. Vulnerability. A fatal weakness, and the greatest strength.

I'm not sure I've explained myself, but let me say one thing. I don't read Mills and Boon romances (or Harlequin, if you're American). I don't watch soap operas, in fact, I despise them. I only ship in sci-fi and crime. In those two genres you get fascinating, obscure, mysterious characters in extreme situations, and only then do I want to know who they really are..and I see that when I see how they love.

One thing I have never understood...the visceral hatred some anti-shippers have for shippers. As if by expressing a certain belief, seeing a certain something, we are somehow undermining that character, and the sci-fi premise. We're not. When we say 'Jack loves Sam, and cannot have her, and therefore hurts', we are not making less of the sci-fi. We're enhancing it.

[UberAeryn]

Thanks, Michelle. May I post this?

[michelleb]

Thanks, Michelle. May I post this?


yes, please do, as long as i get the credit, and what's the site address?

[DownFallAngel]

Could it be gatefic.net....as seen in the signature?

lol.

[michelleb]

Could it be gatefic.net....as seen in the signature?

lol.

whoops. obviously i've been shipping too much and it's made me blind. thanks for that.

ooh, nice site, love the pic!

[UberAeryn]

whoops. obviously i've been shipping too much and it's made me blind. thanks for that.

ooh, nice site, love the pic!

Thanks. :)

Of course you'll get credit! I'll post back here later when I've uploaded everything I've gotten so far.

Aeryn

[Slainey]

I think that the reason people ship and why romance is the most popular genre is that it is accessible. We’ll never walk through a Stargate, slay vampires or even be pilots, archaeologists, or astrophysicists but we do know romance. Just about everyone has had some sort of issue with love in their lives even it that issue is never finding it. So, when watching this huge larger than life story you find something similar to your life you latch on to it.

I was virtually reamed for backing the wrong ship early in my online career so I’ve been a bit shy about them ever since. (No one really got why I liked Riley so much ) As a sometimes fan of Charmed I was taken by surprised at how wrapped up I became in Piper and Leo’s relationship.

I think the frustration with ships comes from those who want to appreciate how different these stories are from everyday life. That to discuss the mundane everyday aspects of our heros’ lives distracts from the overall grandure of the stories.

There’s also the part that learned a lesson from Moonlighting. It’s all over when the coffee table breaks. Better to avoid all ships than to risk consummation and have all the stories go down hill after that. 

The vitriol and insular nature of both camps pisses me off. It’s not just at Gateworld either. Most of these arguments can be solved by better labeling of threads and then not posting the one you aren’t interested in. I think that there is room for both kinds of discussions.



Use this if you want to Aeryn

[UberAeryn]

Another question: The John and Aeryn relationship in Farscape didn't seem to cause nearly the ruckus that other ships have. Why?

My husband argues that J/A was set up from the beginning; whereas others were not. I'm not so sure that's true

[UberAeryn]

Thanks, Slainey!

[UberAeryn]

I was virtually reamed for backing the wrong ship early in my online career so I’ve been a bit shy about them ever since. (No one really got why I liked Riley so much )

PS I liked Riley, too. ;)

[ibwolf]

Another question: The John and Aeryn relationship in Farscape didn't seem to cause nearly the ruckus that other ships have. Why?

My husband argues that J/A was set up from the beginning; whereas others were not. I'm not so sure that's true
It may or may not have been set up from the beginning, but a) Ben and Claudia had great chemistry and b) the writers managed to make us (the viewers) feel as if they were destined to be together.

Personally I don't much care for the so called ship. I'm not anti-ship either, just tend to focus on other things. But the John/Aeryn ship always felt 'right' to me.

[UberAeryn]

It may or may not have been set up from the beginning, but a) Ben and Claudia had great chemistry and b) the writers managed to make us (the viewers) feel as if they were destined to be together.

Personally I don't much care for the so called ship. I'm not anti-ship either, just tend to focus on other things. But the John/Aeryn ship always felt 'right' to me.

That's a good point. I used to think Mulder and Scully were absolute fire - but that all changed when Ben and Claudia came along. Even in their behind the scenes stuff everything is sexually charged.

Well, I've always said either one of them could have chemistry with a rock.

Or a Muppet.

[Lunar]

I ship therefore I am...
No. Not really. I was a Stargate fan before I became a shipper.
I think the crux of the matter for me, was that Sam and Jack seemed to work so well together... to me at least they had this truly wonderful chemistry, being at the same time perfectly matched and diametrically opposed. I became a shipper after seeing Divide and Conquer for the first time, after Jack's confession about rather dying himself than losing Sam. There was such *power* in the scene, such a charged atmosphere that is a tribute to the extremely talented actors, that I was hooked. I wanted Sam and Jack to be together from that moment because, if it were real life, and a man felt that strongly about a woman and vice-versa, they *should* be together. Such feeling is rare; many people say they are 'in love' with one another... but to be willing to die for someone is IMO the greatest love that can exist...
Added to this is the fact I can strongly empathise with the premise of loving someone but never being able to truly admit and express this love. S/J are my only real ship because they are the only characters I have ever seen this truly amazing and powerful chemistry between.

[Slainte]

I haven't gone into the ship threads for specifically that reason. I want noromo opinions, ship opinions - not speculation.

I'm looking for people who can formulate credible arguments on both sides.As to the credible arguments, well, that's debatable :D.

I used to be a shipper. I shipped for Mulder and Scully, Harm and Mac, John and Aeryn, even Yokas and Bosco, until the past year with Jack and Sam. I have been so turned off ship that I am fighting against my own inclinations, determined not to ship again. I know it's a losing battle, but I'm going to fight against my inclinations every step of the way.

This is difficult because I watch body language and eye contact, a lot. The writers, directors and actors put lots of nonverbal subtext in the scenes. I pay pretty close attention to this subtext. Many people might say that I'm misreading what I see, possibly, though I have a pretty good record of being later proven correct.

What irks me is that TPTB (of any show, not just SG-1) play with the viewers by dissolving (alleged) pairings, maybe it's for "character development", maybe for ratings, maybe they just get tired of writing for a particular pairing, maybe the actor(s) demand a change, maybe due to some real world practical reason (actor quitting, illness, etc.) or, maybe, simply because they want to stir things up. This is, of course, their prerogative. :( Doesn't stop it irking me, though.

I more I like a show, the more the characters matter to me. It's a fantasy world, but for one hour a week I live in that world. I know the people there and care about them. To see a pairing dissolve is painful to watch. A tv show can be a microcosm. It's just a tv show on one hand, but on another there are real feelings involved for the viewer, disappointment, annoyance, frustration even anger.

I enjoyed ship, but no longer. I am making a philosophical decision to be a noromo and concentrate on not seeing that annoying subtext stuff that's so intriguing, that interplay between characters that makes a show interesting to me. If I think I see something, I'll just say nope, not happening. Forget about it. No ship.

I'm finished being toyed with. No more Harm and Mac or Jack and Sam. It's Shippers Anonymous for me from now on.

So that's how I see it.:D

[UberAeryn]

Some of the posts I've gotten are UP! The rest should be up soon.

You can see them here: http://www.gatefic.net/index

The link is toward the bottom of the page.

Thanks so much to all who've added their two cents.

[DownFallAngel]

Maybe you should use RED for Anti-shipping, and White for Pro-shipping, or something. Cause having it all in blue doesn't help get your point across.

I read them all, but still showing the differences would be nice.

[UberAeryn]

Maybe you should use RED for Anti-shipping, and White for Pro-shipping, or something. Cause having it all in blue doesn't help get your point across.

I read them all, but still showing the differences would be nice.

Good point. I don't suppose you'll be writing anything for me?

*looks hopeful*

[DownFallAngel]

I'm a nuetral. As long as the episdoe doesn't revolve around..."Oh jack I love you, but we can never be together" doesn't bother me.

Also, I'm not a fan of the whole pro-shipper vs anti-shipper idea. For the simple fact, it was based off Sam NOT being enlisted in the military in both AU.

[UberAeryn]

I'm a nuetral. As long as the episdoe doesn't revolve around..."Oh jack I love you, but we can never be together" doesn't bother me.

Also, I'm not a fan of the whole pro-shipper vs anti-shipper idea. For the simple fact, it was based off Sam NOT being enlisted in the military in both AU.

What do you mean? That that's where the Stargate ship arguments started?

Because ship arguments have been around a LONG time - ask any X-Files fan.

And, in case anyone is wondering, I'm not trying to start a fight - I just want a better under understanding of WHY it's such a big damn deal.

[DownFallAngel]

....I only watch a few shows.

SG1
SGA
Nip/Tuck
The Apprentice
BSG (N)

So, I don't have much of a ship background. Sorry to disappoint you.

And the SG-Shipper comes from There But For The Grace Of God, Point Of View, and scenes like in Upgrades, where the moments were tense, and Sam and Jack felt more thasn loyalty.

[Madeleine]

Compose written arguments for and against ship; not necessarily Stargate ship, but ship in general.

I'm a confirmed noromo wrt Stargate, but I couldn't write an argument against ship 'in general'. There are too many shows where I've enjoyed the canon romances.

Good luck though :)

[Madeleine]

It may or may not have been set up from the beginning, but a) Ben and Claudia had great chemistry and b) the writers managed to make us (the viewers) feel as if they were destined to be together.

I had thought it set up from the beginning. I might need to rewatch though, and see at what point the deliberate obvious clues started; it might have been just that I'd seen pics of John and Aeryn embracing etc in SFX long before I first saw the programme.



Personally I don't much care for the so called ship. I'm not anti-ship either, just tend to focus on other things. But the John/Aeryn ship always felt 'right' to me.

Mostly that's how I feel - in virtually every show I watch I just go with the flow, enjoy the various Ships (Willow/Oz, Chiana/DArgo, Sheridan/Dellen, Buffy/whoever, Sisko/Sherry Palmer) until they pass in the night; and I don't mourn their passing. The exceptions are only Farscape where, like you say, John/Aeryn = RIGHT. And of course Stargate, where I feel equally strongly that Sam/Jack isn't...

[Ramne]

I just watch the show and enjoy it for what it is... I don't try to turn it into Stargate SG-90210.

I never even really thought about 'ship' until I started reading this forum... I guess it's really only there if you look for it.

[UberAeryn]

I had thought it set up from the beginning. I might need to rewatch though, and see at what point the deliberate obvious clues started; it might have been just that I'd seen pics of John and Aeryn embracing etc in SFX long before I first saw the programme.




Mostly that's how I feel - in virtually every show I watch I just go with the flow, enjoy the various Ships (Willow/Oz, Chiana/DArgo, Sheridan/Dellen, Buffy/whoever, Sisko/Sherry Palmer) until they pass in the night; and I don't mourn their passing. The exceptions are only Farscape where, like you say, John/Aeryn = RIGHT. And of course Stargate, where I feel equally strongly that Sam/Jack isn't...

To Madeleine and IBWolf - great points. May I post these?

[Madeleine]

Go for it :)

[Skydiver]

Stargate is the only show i watch where I got into the fandom. And as such, it's about the only one where I care about any sort of ship.

In fanfic, anything goes. I like to explore the Sam/Teal'c relationship, sometimes just friendship, other times more. I find Sam/Jack to be rather complex and that complexity makes it fun to play with.

On the show, on the show I'm perfectly content if things just stay friendship. I'm not going to be upset or crushed if there isn't a resoltion to the UST.

When I started to read fic, I started looking for Sam fic. Well, in this fandom, most of the 'gen' writers don't write her. Thier preferred characters are Daniel or Jack and Sam and Teal'c are usually 'sent to the gate to get help' and disposed of for 3/4 of the story.

Ship writers, however, write fic with Sam in it. So i read a lot of ship fic just so that I can read Sam fic.

I like exploring the characters, and all aspects of them, and since I enjoy Sam, I enjoy reading how she interacts with her team members. Sometimes, it's just friendship, other times it's more.

In many ways, a ship fic is no different than a gen fic. All of them explore the relationship between the characters, ship (and slash) fic just take it a little bit more personally is all.

[ibwolf]

I had thought it set up from the beginning. I might need to rewatch though, and see at what point the deliberate obvious clues started; it might have been just that I'd seen pics of John and Aeryn embracing etc in SFX long before I first saw the programme.
Now that I think about it I seem to recall an interview with one of the producers (or writers) on one of the DVDs where they say that the John/Aeryn ship was developed in part in response to viewer feedback. In any case by the end of S1 it is already moving along.




Mostly that's how I feel - in virtually every show I watch I just go with the flow, enjoy the various Ships (Willow/Oz, Chiana/DArgo, Sheridan/Dellen, Buffy/whoever, Sisko/Sherry Palmer) until they pass in the night; and I don't mourn their passing. The exceptions are only Farscape where, like you say, John/Aeryn = RIGHT. And of course Stargate, where I feel equally strongly that Sam/Jack isn't...
Unless the 'ship' is preplanned and/or made a fundamental part of the series I can't see much point in getting overly excited about it. The John/Aeryn thing worked in part because it propelled the story forward. Conversely any relationship between Sam and Jack would only divert attention from the real story of SG1.




To Madeleine and IBWolf - great points. May I post these?
Feel free.



Some random thoughts on the topic.

Relationships are a part of life. It's only natural for TV shows (or any story telling medium for that matter) to portray them. For my $.02 though, the ship has to serve the story and not the other way around.

Adding relationships between characters purely for the sake of having romantic tension is bad writing.

I also feel that platonic relationships are undervalued in most of the 'ship' discussions. It is clear from the show that Sam and Jack care about each other. But why does that have to lead to a romantic relationship???

[UberAeryn]

IBWolf!

Doggett in your sig! Hooray!

I adore Robert Patrick - when XF finally ended my husband designed the RP thank you ad the fans put in the Hollywood Reporter.

Sorry, OT!

[ibwolf]

IBWolf!

Doggett in your sig! Hooray!

I adore Robert Patrick - when XF finally ended my husband designed the RP thank you ad the fans put in the Hollywood Reporter.

Sorry, OT!
I personally belive it is every threads duty to go offtopic after awhile but that is in itself off topic :rolleyes:

I can't say I'm a Robert Patrick fan though. Got nothing against him, but his (character's) presence in my sig. is purely a matter of 'fitting the mold'. Click on the sig for more about the J-Men.

Oh, and btw it's ibwolf (no capitals)

[UberAeryn]

Oh. ibsorry.